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frnak
Sep 14, 2011, 06:04 PM
http://cl.ly/A94V/Screeny-1.png


This is Mission Control when 4 applications are opened


Now, I don't know how Apple went through their design process to reach this. But I'll just point out some of the major problems with this design.

1. Desktop Spaces are obstructed by Apps
2. Apps overlay each other
3. App icons are not prominent
4. App names are too blended into their background
5. Absolutely no idea why the desktop shrinks, it does not give me a sense of "taking a step back to look at everything"

Simple solutions to consider to resolve these design problems
1. Dim the background (just like Snow Leopard)
2. Do not let apps overlay each other
3. App icons should be smaller
4. Scrap the shrinking desktop
5. Make space switching animations faster (just a little annoyance)

When I look at the current mission control, I can definitely see what their vision is. But the way it is implemented has many flaws, as pointed out.


This thread is just about pointing out what I think is bad design issues with Mission Control. What do you guys think? And what are your thoughts on working with Mission Control.

Thanks



QuarterSwede
Sep 14, 2011, 06:06 PM
That's a bug. The windows aren't supposed to overlap. I have 4 open and none of them touch.

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/3469/screenshot20110914at508.png

Other than that, I agree with your points. MC is not well thought out.

frnak
Sep 14, 2011, 06:28 PM
Try opening 4 windows that take over the entire screen. It should overlap everything.

----------

It's especially worst if you open 2 apps. You can barely see the icons or the desktops.


http://cl.ly/A9HD/Screeny.png

wikus
Sep 14, 2011, 10:23 PM
You missed the most important point, one idiotic decision from Apple that overrides everything;

WHY are application windows GROUPED? Does apple not realize people multitask within a single application? For example...... PHOTOSHOP!?

Now, I know some people for some reason will prefer it being grouped... by an on/off switch to group or ungroup wouldn't kill apple.

Secondly, why the hell does mission control show the friggin' ugly grey border at all, and while doing so, still show the SINGLE space thats used? Spaces in mission control should have an on/off switch as well. The reason *I* don't use spaces is because Expose in Snow Leopard worked well enough to not have to use spaces.

Mission control is such a horrible clusterf**k from Apple, it is the MAIN reason why I'm not switching over. Nevermind the fact that its; slower, causing heat issues on my MBP, still contains the TRIM bug for 3rd party SSDs (that is a bug to me, i know its a missing feature, but its pretty much a standard these days, NO excuse for a new OS not to support it).

This is easily the absolute WORST release/update Apple has done since.... ever.

bigpoppamac31
Sep 14, 2011, 10:42 PM
The overlap for me only happens if I have only two apps running. Then both app windows overlap each other. But anything more then two apps open and it works okay. No windows overlap unless you have multiple windows open from the same app like Safari and those will group together.

sinser
Sep 16, 2011, 03:19 AM
Hmmm...I'm not able to get any overlap. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I actually like Mission Control a lot.

Aldaris
Sep 16, 2011, 03:29 AM
What kind of desktop 'modifiers' a you using? I wonder if the is a compatibility issue that is causing the 'glitches' you are experiencing.

I agree that they need to polish the graphics/transitions when you get into mission control.

I agree with sinser, I too like the way it's set up, just needs a little more detail polish.

Steve's Barber
Sep 16, 2011, 10:07 AM
I am patiently waiting for a 3rd party to bring back the old spaces/expose functionality abandoned by Lion.

Jeordeon
Sep 16, 2011, 10:43 AM
Actually, I think I figured out this bug. It only happens to me when windows are perfectly centered. Try nudging three of them a pixel or two, then activate MC. I may be wrong, but it worked for me (I had BetterSnapTool so I could right click on the maximize button to center a window, and when all of my windows were centered they overlapped in Mission Control, that's how I figured this out). Hope it helps :o Also, I disagree with the desktop thingy. I like that it resizes; really gives me the sense of zooming out and looking at all of my stuff in an organized manner. Perhaps it should be a preference...Apple doesn't seem to have many of those =P :apple:

frnak
Sep 17, 2011, 11:53 AM
I agree with wikus about showing the desktop border. It absolutely seems unnecessary to step back to see the desktop at all.

The grouping does seem off as well, and I don't like it one bit. I think Apple's reasoning behind it is due to the amount of screen estate. Since every space is shown at the top, applications need to be grouped or the individual window will be too small to be displayed.
They're just sacrificing usability to conform to another feature. It's especially bad for the user when he/she has multiple finder windows open or documents. It is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish without fanning them open.

bigpoppamac31
Sep 18, 2011, 12:17 PM
That's a bug. The windows aren't supposed to overlap. I have 4 open and none of them touch.

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/3469/screenshot20110914at508.png

Other than that, I agree with your points. MC is not well thought out.

Yeah but you have only one window open for each app. If you have multiple windows open for any one app then the windows for that particular app overlap. Expose never did that from what I remember. You somewhat have the option with the ''hot corners". If one of your corners is "application windows" it will show all windows for that one app. But that can't be done within Mission Control. It groups the windows. I kind of creates an extra step. You can't do both within one option.

hakuryuu
Sep 18, 2011, 03:26 PM
WHY are application windows GROUPED? Does apple not realize people multitask within a single application? For example...... PHOTOSHOP!?



Exposť

Exposť now groups windows of the same application. Hover over a group and swipe; the group expands to show all the appís windows. Click to bring the window you want forward.

jameslmoser
Sep 18, 2011, 04:17 PM
Mission Control was NOT well thought out. Spaces and Expose were amazing. There isn't even anything like it Mission Control on the iPad, so its not like they were trying to get iPad users to use it either.

My neighbor upgraded to Lion and he wanted me to help him "fix" his computer. The problem was he kept triggering Mission control and the windows were flying all over. He wanted me to shut it off. I told him I couldn't. He has a lot of issues with Lion and I told him I would help him go back to Snow Leopard. He hasn't had a problem yet, and keeps thanking me for getting rid of Lion.

Regular users don't want virtual desktops, and they ruined it for the power users that do.

oiuh151
Sep 18, 2011, 05:22 PM
You missed the most important point, one idiotic decision from Apple that overrides everything;

WHY are application windows GROUPED? Does apple not realize people multitask within a single application? For example...... PHOTOSHOP!?

Now, I know some people for some reason will prefer it being grouped... by an on/off switch to group or ungroup wouldn't kill apple.


Sigh... uninformed people acting like they are posting factual information...

System Preferences > Trackpad > More Gestures > App Exposť

Goldfinger
Sep 18, 2011, 05:46 PM
Sigh... uninformed people acting like they are posting factual information...

System Preferences > Trackpad > More Gestures > App Exposť

Firstly, not everybody has a machine with a trackpad. Secondly you used to be able to do an ALL window Exposť. Which was extremely usefull when multitasking. MC killed that. I really wonder why they did that.
Now you have to switch apps and then do an App Exposť. It's annoying and a waste of time.
I used to use Exposť all the time in Snow Leopard and before but I find myself rarely using Mission Control in Lion because it actually slows me down instead of speeding things up like Exposť did.

oiuh151
Sep 18, 2011, 06:21 PM
Firstly, not everybody has a machine with a trackpad. Secondly you used to be able to do an ALL window Exposť. Which was extremely usefull when multitasking. MC killed that. I really wonder why they did that.
Now you have to switch apps and then do an App Exposť. It's annoying and a waste of time.
I used to use Exposť all the time in Snow Leopard and before but I find myself rarely using Mission Control in Lion because it actually slows me down instead of speeding things up like Exposť did.

Firstly, you can assign App Exposť to any key or any button that you want. (System Preferences > Mission Control > Application windows) Secondly, the reason why they did this was because prior they were not organized. Don't speak for everyone. I find this new method to be much better. You see your windows grouped for each app at a glance and then you can zoom in on the stack if you want or should the stack of windows be larger then you dig down deeper into App Exposť. It's much more organized in my opinion than simply having a grid of random windows. The visual cues are much easier to associate with in Mission Control as to what app and what window you are looking for.

laudern
Sep 18, 2011, 06:35 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

Anyone trying to justify MC is in denial. Sure its "new" and might look a little more prettier than expose. But seriously, expose did what needed to be done. And it did is well. And I could have been just glancing over the previous post to mine, but was this fella seriously justifying expose in lion as a good app. It's broken, doesn't work and doesn't even do what its name claims to do. And the widget screen is **** as well. I liked being able to see your background so if you were copying something onto the calculator or yellow sticky pads it was easy to do. Not this grey circle background ****

oiuh151
Sep 18, 2011, 06:49 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

Anyone trying to justify MC is in denial. Sure its "new" and might look a little more prettier than expose. But seriously, expose did what needed to be done. And it did is well. And I could have been just glancing over the previous post to mine, but was this fella seriously justifying expose in lion as a good app. It's broken, doesn't work and doesn't even do what its name claims to do. And the widget screen is **** as well. I liked being able to see your background so if you were copying something onto the calculator or yellow sticky pads it was easy to do. Not this grey circle background ****

I'm in denial because I think Misson Control is better than All Window Exposť in Snow Leopard? LOL :rolleyes:

Mission Control does what's needed to be done and does it better because of reasons I already explained in my previous post.

Yet another person complaining about something that you can change in System Preferences. God, do you people even research this **** before you complain about it?
System Preferences > Mission Control > Un-check Show Dashboard as a space

Skoal
Sep 18, 2011, 07:21 PM
That's a bug. The windows aren't supposed to overlap. I have 4 open and none of them touch.

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/3469/screenshot20110914at508.png

Other than that, I agree with your points. MC is not well thought out. Yes, definitely a bug. Mine look nothing like the starter of this thread.

DoFoT9
Sep 18, 2011, 07:27 PM
Yes, definitely a bug. Mine look nothing like the starter of this thread.

all the apps were full screen (or took up the entire display rather) - and had +1 screen on the same app opened.

silly apple for implementing it this way though!

marsmissions
Sep 19, 2011, 01:34 AM
I'm pretty sure almost all of your quibbles are just bugs that they will fix eventually. and it's not even big bugs at that, wifi is a bigger issue.

Goldfinger
Sep 19, 2011, 03:42 AM
Firstly, you can assign App Exposť to any key or any button that you want. (System Preferences > Mission Control > Application windows) Secondly, the reason why they did this was because prior they were not organized. Don't speak for everyone. I find this new method to be much better. You see your windows grouped for each app at a glance and then you can zoom in on the stack if you want or should the stack of windows be larger then you dig down deeper into App Exposť. It's much more organized in my opinion than simply having a grid of random windows. The visual cues are much easier to associate with in Mission Control as to what app and what window you are looking for.

I know how to assign buttons and swipes etc. (I even have a mousebutton dedicated to it on my Logitech MX!) But that still doesn't change the fact that you need to do TWO actions now where you could before accomplish the same in ONE action.

And I'm not speaking for everyone... If you like the new way then good for you. In my eyes (and the it's the same for a lot of other people) this new way of doing things is backwards and slows you down.

oiuh151
Sep 19, 2011, 11:40 AM
I know how to assign buttons and swipes etc. (I even have a mousebutton dedicated to it on my Logitech MX!) But that still doesn't change the fact that you need to do TWO actions now where you could before accomplish the same in ONE action.If you knew that then why the hell did you say "Firstly, not everybody has a machine with a trackpad."? Clearly if you knew that you can assign it to anything you want then you wouldn't have said this. :rolleyes: There was App Exposť in Snow Leopard too for a reason.

Dealing with a random grid of windows with no visual cue as to what belongs to what app is not a superior way of doing things no matter how you try trick yourself into believing that it is.


And I'm not speaking for everyone... If you like the new way then good for you. In my eyes (and the it's the same for a lot of other people) this new way of doing things is backwards and slows you down.
When something is changed people don't like it simply because they changed it so therefore they have to learn a new way of using it so therefore they are slower with it. Yet in the end said change is beneficial because it eventually increases your productivity as you get used to it. Welcome to technology.

gentlefury
Sep 19, 2011, 12:19 PM
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-PYAoOyKlvBM/Tnd5Ix8nZhI/AAAAAAAAEq8/XzrOjhYWwk8/s800/Screen%252520Shot%2525202011-09-19%252520at%25252010.16.01%252520AM.png

There is several windows open and several are expanded to full screen. You are obviously running some third party extensions that are making it do that.

kbmb
Sep 19, 2011, 02:20 PM
Just to chime in....this is definitely a weird bug in Lion.

I attached a screenshot of this happening for me (attachment #1)

In a Desktop...I have iTunes going from the leftmost to rightmost area of the screen. I then have Console doing the same. I have NO other windows open in that space.

The overlap happens.

If however, I open a Finder window that does NOT take of the full width of the screen.....Mission Control is fine (even with the other two windows still being full width)....attachment #2.

All I have to do with the original two windows to not have them overlap....is bring in the edge ever so slightly so it doesn't touch both the left and right side of the screen.

Bug in Lion.

-Kevin

jameslmoser
Sep 19, 2011, 03:17 PM
Sigh... uninformed people acting like they are posting factual information...

System Preferences > Trackpad > More Gestures > App Exposť

The fact that this is only accessible through a gesture is ridiculous. How are you suppose to do it with a regular mouse and keyboard? The "Magic Trackpad" is ridiculous. It doesn't even work like the Macbook's trackpad, you can't tap to click so switching between the two is confusing at best. Its is also no replacement for Snow Leopard's App Expose.

Studies have been done and gestures are a step backwards in user interfaces, especially when they are they only way of doing things or they are complicated and awkward, which most of the new ones in Lion are. At least the ones before lion felt intuitive and natural.

xpipe
Sep 19, 2011, 03:26 PM
You can set a hot corner for App Exposť. As a heavy spaces user, I thought the "new" spaces would be a big problem, but it hasn't been at all for me.

oiuh151
Sep 19, 2011, 04:33 PM
The fact that this is only accessible through a gesture is ridiculous. How are you suppose to do it with a regular mouse and keyboard? The "Magic Trackpad" is ridiculous. It doesn't even work like the Macbook's trackpad, you can't tap to click so switching between the two is confusing at best. Its is also no replacement for Snow Leopard's App Expose.

Studies have been done and gestures are a step backwards in user interfaces, especially when they are they only way of doing things or they are complicated and awkward, which most of the new ones in Lion are. At least the ones before lion felt intuitive and natural.

Read the thread FFS. :rolleyes:

you can assign App Exposť to any key or any button that you want. (System Preferences > Mission Control > Application windows)

ljonesj
Sep 19, 2011, 05:12 PM
Well the problem with me with gestures is I have carpal tunnel and some of the gestures hurt my rest as i have do it funny as i have long fingers

wikus
Sep 19, 2011, 09:22 PM
Sigh... uninformed people acting like they are posting factual information...

System Preferences > Trackpad > More Gestures > App Exposť

Once I get home, I'm going to give you a taste of reality by reporting your condescending and arrogant attitude to a mod.

A number of people have already explained to you that Mission Control lacks expose for all windows, ungrouped, with either a click, hot spot (my case) or assigned keyboard button, yet you still maintain the self righteous attitude that a valid point and a factually removed function from Mac OS does not exist.

Goldfinger
Sep 20, 2011, 05:14 AM
If you knew that then why the hell did you say "Firstly, not everybody has a machine with a trackpad."? Clearly if you knew that you can assign it to anything you want then you wouldn't have said this. :rolleyes: There was App Exposť in Snow Leopard too for a reason.

Dealing with a random grid of windows with no visual cue as to what belongs to what app is not a superior way of doing things no matter how you try trick yourself into believing that it is.
I, and many others, could see perfectly well what was going on in the windows. Plenty of visual clues. You really don't need an App icon to identify the windows. In fact, now that I think about it, when I open Mission Control I don't even see/notice the app icons, I just look at the window content.

The new way is not superior, to me, if it slows me down.

I'm pissed off because Apple removed a perfect feature that was used by a ton of people and that could perfectly coexist with the new two-step method.

When something is changed people don't like it simply because they changed it so therefore they have to learn a new way of using it so therefore they are slower with it. Yet in the end said change is beneficial because it eventually increases your productivity as you get used to it. Welcome to technology.

One step is still quicker than two steps. All window Exposť will always be quicker then doing mission control, select app and do an App Exposť. I really don't see how it could be any quicker.

frnak
Oct 17, 2011, 09:35 AM
I am not running any 3rd party software to modify the desktop, and as you can see from previous post, some users were able to recreate the problem.

I am extremely disappointed to see this(Window Grouping) not addressed in the latest 10.7.2 update. Personally, from my point of view, this issue has become a critical problem that's probably hindering a lot of people from upgrading to lion (that actually cares about Mac OS X).

Going through multiple workflows with 5-10 finder windows, Xcode, and a bunch of Safari windows is just UNBELIEVABLY slow and frustrating compared to SL. Mission Control is the ONE and only major problem with Lion. And it needs to be "IMPLEMENTED DIFFERENTLY" immediately before any other issues in 10.7.3.

I'm not trolling anyone about this topic, it's because I genuinely care enough for Mac OS X that these things should be mentioned.

wikus
Mar 16, 2012, 08:05 AM
Has Apple acknowledged this problem yet? Or are they ever going to fix Mission Control to allow 'all app' expose?