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View Full Version : XP and VPC = AWESOME


madamimadam
Oct 14, 2002, 01:50 AM
I just finished setting up XP in Virtual PC and it is SO great.

I have previously been using 2000 and it was as sluggish as a bitch. At first XP as only mildly better but then I stumbled across the eye candy settings and when I set it to "Optimise for performace" it started running faster than most PCs I use. I can now even do some tasks in Windows almost as fast as I do them on the mac and things like opening Menus I do even faster than I do them on Mac (remember, the eye candy, ie. shadowing ect., is off).

My $0.02, XP is TOTALLY the way to go for VCP.

mac15
Oct 14, 2002, 05:18 AM
cool, I was running XP with eye-candy on, I'll install it later, with it off, I'm running Windows 95 and 98 , 95 is way fast, but it is so crap

losfp
Oct 14, 2002, 05:37 AM
Excellent, that's what I want to hear. IMHO XP is the best implementation of Windows yet. All my machines are running Win XP Pro (Including, of course, the one I'm typing on).

Once I can afford a PowerBook, it'd be nice to not lose any of my old programs and so on. Get the best of two machines in one - kind of. Probably be like running XP on a 400mhz PIII. Still usable though :D

mmmdreg
Oct 14, 2002, 07:02 AM
lots of my ignorant friends say that 2k was the best as XP is more unstable or something..is this true? (Im talking windoze machines)

losfp
Oct 14, 2002, 07:18 AM
Not from my experience. As far as I can tell, XP is more stable, and recognises a lot more devices out of the box. Of course, if you are constantly trying to use it with hardware and software that's specifically non-xp-compatible, you will run into trouble.

As always, because of the wide variety of hardware it is designed to be "compatible" with, YMMV.

madamimadam
Oct 14, 2002, 07:43 AM
As a point of interest, my 533Mhz PowerMac =
686 processor
532MHz

I dare say it appears to run faster than that, though.... I also have my disk image on a different drive to my system and I have reduced the colours to 8-bit

Wash!!
Oct 14, 2002, 07:43 AM
it is still m$ winblows no matter how you look at it.

wash;)

swahilibill
Oct 14, 2002, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by Wash!!
it is still m$ winblows no matter how you look at it.

wash;)


dont be so bitchy to windows, there the one who is innovating right now, so how bout u keep an open mind, last innovation of apples was 10 and a half months ago, pretty ****ing long time.

Wash!!
Oct 14, 2002, 08:06 AM
But…I have yet to see a wintel box that works well, an belive me I seen my share
even on the simples tasks.

Cheers!!:o

Shrek
Oct 14, 2002, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by swahilibill



dont be so bitchy to windows, there the one who is innovating right now, so how bout u keep an open mind, last innovation of apples was 10 and a half months ago, pretty ****ing long time.

Excuse me. The last innovation of Apples was like almost two months ago, and they added 150 new features to their Jaguar operating system. :p

DeadlyBreakfast
Oct 14, 2002, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Wash!!
But…I have yet to see a wintel box that works well, an belive me I seen my share
even on the simples tasks.

Cheers!!:o

Really?? I have about 25 or so that work just fien every single day. Now I love Mac's just as much as the next guy but lets get real. A broad statement like that means one of two things.

1) It was said just to fuel the fires of M$ hatred
2) Somebody really doesnt know how to set up/configure OS's

I mean really...if it as bad as some of you guys portray I dont see how they would have sold ANY...

BTW...Wash If you dont beleive me Ill gladly give you the address of my company so you can stop by and see.....



Flame away guys!!.... :D

sphereboy
Oct 14, 2002, 11:39 AM
:) can't we all just get along

benixau
Oct 14, 2002, 12:13 PM
I hate pcs because of the simple problems i have but, i must say that using both macs and pcs sincs the days of the Apple IIGS, pcs when a knowlegable person is using them, work like a breeze. That is where the problem is, knowlegable. to use mac os you could be 5and use it. It is obvoius with the exception of double click. everything else is computer obvious.

PS. before you start telling me double clicking has been here forever, a 5yr old wont understand it if you dont tell him. lets seelearn 100 things to use windblows or 1 thing to use mac os.



Which one will i buy my kids for their homework????

shadowfax
Oct 14, 2002, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by benixau
I hate pcs because of the simple problems i have but, i must say that using both macs and pcs sincs the days of the Apple IIGS, pcs when a knowlegable person is using them, work like a breeze. That is where the problem is, knowlegable. to use mac os you could be 5and use it. It is obvoius with the exception of double click. everything else is computer obvious.

PS. before you start telling me double clicking has been here forever, a 5yr old wont understand it if you dont tell him. lets seelearn 100 things to use windblows or 1 thing to use mac os.



Which one will i buy my kids for their homework????

That'd be an awesome argument, the next time i have the intelligence of a 5 year old. as it is, i am freaking good with windows XP, and it's really stable. i used Mac OS 8 on an iMac G3 awhile ago... my god, that was a really annoying OS. after using windows, none of it was the least bit intuitive for me, and it was downright ugly. MacOS had nothing on windows 95, visually, till OS X, which of course kills every OS visually, and most for stability and such.

i'm not trashing mac; i am a total switcher, but the people around this site seem to be pretty computer savvy. i don't think the design simplicity is a valid argument. i furthermore think that the Mac OS isn't THAT much more intuitive. the idea of the file/window/help/etc menus are not on a per window but per app basis is a great idea for most programs, but it's not any more intuitive than the MS/Gnome/most other OSes way. the Dock is supercool and useful, not to mention intuitive, but it's my understanding that a lot of diehard mac users hate it because it was never around before.

we aren't flying here

Thirteenva
Oct 14, 2002, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by swahilibill



dont be so bitchy to windows, there the one who is innovating right now, so how bout u keep an open mind, last innovation of apples was 10 and a half months ago, pretty ****ing long time.


I'm saying this in a non flaming way. This is conversational, not attacking, so don't get in a huff.

What exactly is windows innovating right now???

...and...

How can you say apple is not innovating...

Rendezvous
iSync
jaguar

just to name a few.


I agree that a knowledgeable person can get the most out of windows. But i find that most of the time i spend on a windows machine is just that, me having to make it work through the use of my knowledge of windows. Now, when i actually want to get some work done, i use my mac... i don't have to make it work, it just does, thus allowing me to get some actual work done.

Thirteenva
Oct 14, 2002, 02:15 PM
oh i meant to mention in my post above but forgot...

I have vpc with windows 98 and its terribly slow, is XP that much faster in vpc, i'm dying to use it but don't have the money to buy the xp os pack yet. So i haven't tried it.

Wash!!
Oct 14, 2002, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Thirteenva



I'm saying this in a non flaming way. This is conversational, not attacking, so don't get in a huff.

What exactly is windows innovating right now???

...and...

How can you say apple is not innovating...

Rendezvous
iSync
jaguar

just to name a few.


I agree that a knowledgeable person can get the most out of windows. But i find that most of the time i spend on a windows machine is just that, me having to make it work through the use of my knowledge of windows. Now, when i actually want to get some work done, i use my mac... i don't have to make it work, it just does, thus allowing me to get some actual work done.

RIGHT ON!!!:D

LethalWolfe
Oct 14, 2002, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by benixau
I hate pcs because of the simple problems i have but, i must say that using both macs and pcs sincs the days of the Apple IIGS, pcs when a knowlegable person is using them, work like a breeze. That is where the problem is, knowlegable. to use mac os you could be 5and use it. It is obvoius with the exception of double click. everything else is computer obvious.

PS. before you start telling me double clicking has been here forever, a 5yr old wont understand it if you dont tell him. lets seelearn 100 things to use windblows or 1 thing to use mac os.



Which one will i buy my kids for their homework????

I think the double click is a bad example. 5 year olds are rockin' on video games (I loved my Atari 2600 when I was five) so I don't think a double click is too big of a challenge for a kid these days (kids like to mash buttons anyway, so they'll soon figure out that "mash once" is different from "mash twice" and "mash three times" does nothing at all ;)).

IMO, having software only open/close for drives is more obscure than double click.


Lethal

topicolo
Oct 14, 2002, 02:40 PM
Windows did come out with automatic system updating back in '98 (windowsupdate.microsoft.com) as well as hibernation features, and built-in software routers with Win ME.

Wash!!
Oct 14, 2002, 02:48 PM
But they stole the tech from other companies and shareware programs M$ has not "invented" anything on their own since day one

Wash

SilvorX
Oct 14, 2002, 02:56 PM
ive seen xp run on an ibook (that only has 256 megs of ram max) and it ran faster than i thought it would, but it was still pretty slow, and it was in os9

Nipsy
Oct 14, 2002, 03:40 PM
Encouraged in another thread to give XP another look, but unwilling to put it on a real PC, I whipped up an XP VPC partition, and I agree its pretty astounding on a Dual 867 2GB machine.

Faster that 2000 and SuSE.

Over Achiever
Oct 14, 2002, 06:41 PM
Gawd this is turning into a PC vs. Apple fight. Fight on!

Anyway, I'm planning to buy a pb...(i've been saying that for several months now) and I will definiately buy VPC. Just curious...should I use that "world's greatest hack" (do a search on MacRumors) and put that on separate partitions for each OS I use? I plan on installing Windows 2000, XP, and Linux. I want to see whether I should use 2000 or XP, and I like some programming features in linux.

Anyway, so should I install them normally and reset the priority level to -20 or put in on a seperate partition and run it as finder?

madamimadam
Oct 14, 2002, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by Thirteenva
oh i meant to mention in my post above but forgot...

I have vpc with windows 98 and its terribly slow, is XP that much faster in vpc, i'm dying to use it but don't have the money to buy the xp os pack yet. So i haven't tried it.

I have never used VPC and 98 but over 2K is a HUGE jump... only after you turn off the eye candy though. Eye candy on= a little faster, eye candy off = UNBELIEVABLY FASTER

benixau
Oct 15, 2002, 06:30 AM
Originally posted by LethalWolfe


I think the double click is a bad example. 5 year olds are rockin' on video games (I loved my Atari 2600 when I was five) so I don't think a double click is too big of a challenge for a kid these days (kids like to mash buttons anyway, so they'll soon figure out that "mash once" is different from "mash twice" and "mash three times" does nothing at all ;)).

IMO, having software only open/close for drives is more obscure than double click.


Lethal

Actually i agree with your last point, but a five year old will ask for daddys help to use a game (mac game!! where where :D) or get pictures from MS Office.

A also accept that five years olds today are a little better than five year olds, well, five years ago.

Love the mash analogy!!

bousozoku
Oct 15, 2002, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Thirteenva
oh i meant to mention in my post above but forgot...

I have vpc with windows 98 and its terribly slow, is XP that much faster in vpc, i'm dying to use it but don't have the money to buy the xp os pack yet. So i haven't tried it.

I find it hard to believe that WinXP is reasonable on VPC since I use Win98 on a dual 800 and it's only reasonable. Believing WinXP to be faster, or more stable, than Win2000 isn't too difficult though.

buffsldr
Oct 15, 2002, 10:24 PM
thanks for the tip. I just may give it a try. what are the min requirements for xp on vpc?

madamimadam
Oct 16, 2002, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by buffsldr
thanks for the tip. I just may give it a try. what are the min requirements for xp on vpc?

Good question, I think, by default, it wants 128MB of RAM

shadowfax
Oct 16, 2002, 12:24 AM
i wouldn't recommend running emulation with less than 256 MB of RAM... unless you have lots of patience!;)

madamimadam
Oct 16, 2002, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by Shadowfax
i wouldn't recommend running emulation with less than 256 MB of RAM... unless you have lots of patience!;)

It is VERY hard to find the correct point... I have all the CRT iMacs here at the office running 96MB with 2K (the recommeded amount) but they are so slow at emulating at more RAM does not help. If the CPU can not keep up more RAM does nothing. As the machine you are working on gets faster, the RAM makes more difference and then, once you hit that point that the CPU is waiting on virtual RAM it makes a HUGE difference.

DeadlyBreakfast
Oct 16, 2002, 06:00 AM
Ive had the chance to play with an iBook 600 with 128 megs running win 98 and it was very useable.

Cappy
Oct 16, 2002, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by losfp
Not from my experience. As far as I can tell, XP is more stable, and recognises a lot more devices out of the box. Of course, if you are constantly trying to use it with hardware and software that's specifically non-xp-compatible, you will run into trouble.

As always, because of the wide variety of hardware it is designed to be "compatible" with, YMMV.

Your statements are somewhat misleading. Yes, out of the box XP recognizes more devices but that's mostly due to drivers being included for devices not available when W2k was developed. There are *very* and I mean *very* few devices that will work with XP and not 2000. It's really insignificant.

As for software compatibility I'd say it's a wash. I've witnessed and heard stories from competent people I know that have apps that run fine on one and not the other. XP truly has some real changes internally but for the most part is more hype than anything when compared to Win2k. I'm still amazed at how many people griped about being charged for Mac OS 10.2 yet those same people who deal with the Windows world didn't object to handing MS money for going to WinXP from Win2k.

madamimadam
Oct 16, 2002, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by Cappy
I'm still amazed at how many people griped about being charged for Mac OS 10.2 yet those same people who deal with the Windows world didn't object to handing MS money for going to WinXP from Win2k.

I actually had a go at someone commenting on a news factor article when they compared Mac OS X.2 to a M$ Service Pack suggesting that Apple is screwing us because we have to pay for our update.

Cappy
Oct 16, 2002, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by madamimadam


I actually had a go at someone commenting on a news factor article when they compared Mac OS X.2 to a M$ Service Pack suggesting that Apple is screwing us because we have to pay for our update.

Not to get too far off topic but Apple just dropped the ball on this one. They stated before that single point increases would be free updates and that whole version or .5 versions would be pay upgrades. If they wanted to change it, they should have announced it ahead of time better, changed what the version was(10.5 comes to mind), or changed the name like MS does(doubtful since they've focused so much on the Mac OS X name). People only griped for the most part because it was perceived they were getting taken advantage of. Perception is the issue.

benixau
Oct 16, 2002, 06:55 PM
Ok, M$ ripps you off. say yo had win95 and wanted to goto XP Pro. They have to fork out AUD$695 adn then get their free updates for a few years and then upgrade again. AUD$200 for XP 2 or whatever.

Now lets look at Mac OS. AUD$229 upfront for a very good stable OS. free .x.x updates, which are like service packs. Then pay for the next big one at AUD$229. If my maths is right using MacOS i have saved AUD$437. Which is enough for another version of MacOS.

Who is getting ripped.

madamimadam
Oct 16, 2002, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by benixau
Ok, M$ ripps you off. say yo had win95 and wanted to goto XP Pro. They have to fork out AUD$695 adn then get their free updates for a few years and then upgrade again. AUD$200 for XP 2 or whatever.

Now lets look at Mac OS. AUD$229 upfront for a very good stable OS. free .x.x updates, which are like service packs. Then pay for the next big one at AUD$229. If my maths is right using MacOS i have saved AUD$437. Which is enough for another version of MacOS.

Who is getting ripped.

Almost another 2 versions
:)

MacCoaster
Oct 16, 2002, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by benixau
Ok, M$ ripps you off. say yo had win95 and wanted to goto XP Pro. They have to fork out AUD$695 adn then get their free updates for a few years and then upgrade again. AUD$200 for XP 2 or whatever.
Why in the world would people upgrade from 95 to 98 to Me to 2000 to XP?

Do it the easy way and cheaper way--just buy XP Pro and install from scratch. It's 99USD educational.

swahilibill
Oct 16, 2002, 08:04 PM
how do i turn off the eye candy? thanks in advance

madamimadam
Oct 16, 2002, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by swahilibill
how do i turn off the eye candy? thanks in advance


Start
"Right" Click "My Computer"
"Left" Click "Properties"
Click "Advanced"
Click the "Settings" button under the heading "Performance"
Click "Adjust for best performace"
And just ok that off

multifinder
Oct 17, 2002, 02:39 AM
Now why, for the love of God, can't Apple add a checkbox to turn off eye candy. You'd think if the Devil Incarnate could add that feature, Apple could--just turning off all the translucence alone in OS X, I wouldn't need Quartz Extreme...

TimDaddy
Oct 17, 2002, 03:38 AM
Originally posted by LethalWolfe


5 year olds are rockin' on video games (I loved my Atari 2600 when I was five) so I don't think a double click is too big of a challenge for a kid these days (kids like to mash buttons anyway, so they'll soon figure out that "mash once" is different from "mash twice" and "mash three times" does nothing at all ;)).
Lethal

I got my iMac G3 when my son was 3. I bought a printer the next night, opened it, sat it on my desk, and went to sleep. When I woke up, my 3 year old son had a stack of Mickey Mouse pictures. I asked him where they came from and he replied "The computer gave them to me." He was easily able to figure out how to hook up a USB cable. I'm not sure how he actually figured out how to make the printer print, though it was an option in a game that I had bought him and he had played with a little. He knows that, in his words, "Macintosh has an apple up there, and Windows has a window down there." He can use the start menu and apple menu to navigate to the program he wants, but of course he has to recognize the icon. He's not too good with OSX, but with me working more hours and him in kindergarten now, I haven't had as much time to help him. But, when I put an icon for a game on the desktop, he has absolutely no problem double-clicking.

benixau
Oct 17, 2002, 04:25 AM
Originally posted by MacCoaster

Why in the world would people upgrade from 95 to 98 to Me to 2000 to XP?

Do it the easy way and cheaper way--just buy XP Pro and install from scratch. It's 99USD educational.

Wow, what ignorance ..... I said AUD, not USD. and that is a straight outright brand new. as i know, and so should you, you cant upgrade from 95 to XP, at all!! Ther3efore it is a new purchase. BTW an upgrade version of XP Pro is AUD$400. still almost two version of mac os.

Sorry, mac os is so much more economical in terms of price i think i might (dare i say it) live with the ocst of buying 10.2 brand new. If i wasnt getting a new computer with it pre-installed.

Mac OS is always good value for money. There are two version of it, OS X and OS X Server. in the windblow world, there are many more .... XP Home, XP Pro, 2k Server, 2k Advanced Server, 2k Datacentre Server. The last for 10 users is about AUD$3000.

OS X Server 10.2 with unlimited users is AUD$1799. Once again Mac OS X is cheaper. And it does everything the other does aswell.

DeadlyBreakfast
Oct 17, 2002, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by TimDaddy


I got my iMac G3 when my son was 3. I bought a printer the next night, opened it, sat it on my desk, and went to sleep. When I woke up, my 3 year old son had a stack of Mickey Mouse pictures. I asked him where they came from and he replied "The computer gave them to me." He was easily able to figure out how to hook up a USB cable. I'm not sure how he actually figured out how to make the printer print, though it was an option in a game that I had bought him and he had played with a little. He knows that, in his words, "Macintosh has an apple up there, and Windows has a window down there." He can use the start menu and apple menu to navigate to the program he wants, but of course he has to recognize the icon. He's not too good with OSX, but with me working more hours and him in kindergarten now, I haven't had as much time to help him. But, when I put an icon for a game on the desktop, he has absolutely no problem double-clicking.

DeadlyBreakfast
Oct 17, 2002, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by TimDaddy


I got my iMac G3 when my son was 3. I bought a printer the next night, opened it, sat it on my desk, and went to sleep. When I woke up, my 3 year old son had a stack of Mickey Mouse pictures. I asked him where they came from and he replied "The computer gave them to me." He was easily able to figure out how to hook up a USB cable. I'm not sure how he actually figured out how to make the printer print, though it was an option in a game that I had bought him and he had played with a little. He knows that, in his words, "Macintosh has an apple up there, and Windows has a window down there." He can use the start menu and apple menu to navigate to the program he wants, but of course he has to recognize the icon. He's not too good with OSX, but with me working more hours and him in kindergarten now, I haven't had as much time to help him. But, when I put an icon for a game on the desktop, he has absolutely no problem double-clicking.



Please have you son submit a resume to me. He apparently has more skill then most of our management staff..... :D

MacCoaster
Oct 17, 2002, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by benixau
Wow, what ignorance ..... I said AUD, not USD. and that is a straight outright brand new. as i know, and so should you, you cant upgrade from 95 to XP, at all!! Ther3efore it is a new purchase. BTW an upgrade version of XP Pro is AUD$400. still almost two version of mac os.
http://www.microsoft.com/australia/pricing/detail/default.asp?strPFN=Windows+XP+Professional&strRet=TRUE
It's 199 AUD for Academic full version.

And actually, you can upgrade from 95 to 98 to XP. But seriously, who would do that now? Just get the $199 XP Pro and install from scratch.