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View Full Version : Confirmation of Nano Firewire-less-ness from ThinkSecret




Makosuke
Sep 8, 2005, 07:25 PM
Apparently it will charge with a FW cable, but for those who don't belive Apple's specs page, Think Secret has a photo from someone who tried it, and the remarkably friendly error message you get:

http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/nano/source/12.html



maya
Sep 8, 2005, 07:31 PM
Apparently it will charge with a FW cable, but for those who don't belive Apple's specs page, Think Secret has a photo from someone who tried it, and the remarkably friendly error message you get:

http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/nano/source/12.html

As was mentioned a while back. :)

With the move to intel, Apple is getting USB 2.0 at a bargain. ;) :)

mkrishnan
Sep 8, 2005, 07:37 PM
Well, beats heck out of "Unexpected error #501." :D

Thanks for posting; I too was among those wondering what would happen if one plugged a FW docking cable into the Nano. :o

Dr. Dastardly
Sep 8, 2005, 07:49 PM
The message should read:

"Oh, is someone a poweruser all of a sudden?
Use the USB cable provided jack @$$.

Press center to dismiss"

;)

fartheststar
Sep 8, 2005, 09:13 PM
The message should read:

"Oh, is someone a poweruser all of a sudden?
Use the USB cable provided jack @$$.

Press center to dismiss"

;)

hey man, some of us have older macs with firewire and Usb 1.1

Whyren
Sep 8, 2005, 09:15 PM
*hugs 2nd Gen. FireWire iPod...casts glaring eye at shuffle*

Sedulous
Sep 8, 2005, 09:20 PM
Why USB? I really dislike USB and it isn't like Apple has to license Firewire from anyone.

fartheststar
Sep 8, 2005, 09:22 PM
*hugs 2nd Gen. FireWire iPod...casts glaring eye at shuffle*

hee hee... love my 3rd gen. I tell you.... buy something from Apple, goes out of date fast, but I still love it. My computer is only 2 years old.. the last G4 MDD Dual 1.25's without USB 2.0 support.

At some point I'm going to need a new video card and maybe a USB 2.0 card IF I happen to need a new iPod (protecting current iPod as a result).

iGary
Sep 8, 2005, 09:25 PM
Derrr.....

OK, not including the cable is one thing...not supporting it at all is another. :rolleyes:

So basically if you have a 2-year-old Mac, you're effed.

clayj
Sep 8, 2005, 09:32 PM
Derrr.....

OK, not including the cable is one thing...not supporting it at all is another. :rolleyes:

So basically if you have a 2-year-old Mac, you're effed.I guess this is one way to drag people kicking and screaming into the future... planned obsolescence. I'd bet a donut that the next iPod (full-size) will also drop Firewire compatibility.

Whyren
Sep 8, 2005, 09:39 PM
I guess this is one way to drag people kicking and screaming into the future... planned obsolescence. I'd bet a donut that the next iPod (full-size) will also drop Firewire compatibility.

...and will only work on MacTel machines. :eek:

(Let's hope not)

mkrishnan
Sep 8, 2005, 09:44 PM
...and will only work on MacTel machines. :eek:

I know you're kidding, but that's hugely unlikely, I think... there are probably technical and cost advantages in dropping firewire support from the iPod. But I can't think of any reason why the processor in the Mac would have anything to do with anything.

BTW, I didn't see any mention of whether the iPod Nano appears to support USB 1.1 in the tradeoff or not. Anyone know? I guess I do sympathize with mac users who bought relatively recent Macs that lack USB2. :(

faithfulFrank
Sep 8, 2005, 10:32 PM
Hi. Now you got me a bit nervous.......I just ordered a Nano ipod today. The guy from apple told me that I CAN charge the nano with my ac firewire adapter, but could not download using firewire....that I would have to use my usb ports.
I thought, no problem. I told him that I have a imac G4, 1 gig processor, 768 Mb of ram. I told him that I had a usb port unused on my keyboard, and an extra usb hub.....He said that was fine.

Now here is a dumb question....how do I tell if I have usb 2.0, or 1.1 ?
I looked in "about this mac", but even after clicking "more info" then clicking USB, it really did not tell me.

As you can already tell, i'm a bit of a novice here, but I do love my mac, and the ipods the family has. My son needs a new ipod, so I'm giving him my Gen4 20 gig, and buying the nano for me.

Will it even work on my computer??

thank you in advance for your help.

Frank D.

iGary
Sep 8, 2005, 10:34 PM
hee hee... love my 3rd gen. I tell you.... buy something from Apple, goes out of date fast, but I still love it. My computer is only 2 years old.. the last G4 MDD Dual 1.25's without USB 2.0 support.

At some point I'm going to need a new video card and maybe a USB 2.0 card IF I happen to need a new iPod (protecting current iPod as a result).

My last computer was--what would be--a two-year-old 1.25 in October.

No USB 2.0. :rolleyes:

What really got me was until 10.4 none of the PCI cards supported sleep...

Asshats.

iGary
Sep 8, 2005, 10:35 PM
Hi. Now you got me a bit nervous.......I just ordered a Nano ipod today. The guy from apple told me that I CAN charge the nano with my ac firewire adapter, but could not download using firewire....that I would have to use my usb ports.
I thought, no problem. I told him that I have a imac G4, 1 gig processor, 768 Mb of ram. I told him that I had a usb port unused on my keyboard, and an extra usb hub.....He said that was fine.

Now here is a dumb question....how do I tell if I have usb 2.0, or 1.1 ?
I looked in "about this mac", but even after clicking "more info" then clicking USB, it really did not tell me.

As you can already tell, i'm a bit of a novice here, but I do love my mac, and the ipods the family has. My son needs a new ipod, so I'm giving him my Gen4 20 gig, and buying the nano for me.

Will it even work on my computer??

thank you in advance for your help.

Frank D.

You have 1.1 - You can transfer, it will be slow.

Charge with your AC adapter.

faithfulFrank
Sep 8, 2005, 10:45 PM
Thanks Gary.
I currently transfer songs with this computer using either the usb port or the firewire on my 20 gig 4th gen ipod.....when I use the usb now with the 20 gig ipod, I don't think it is that slow....I must have low expectations.

I know I can no longer use the firewire to transfer songs, but if using my "old" usb1.1 is about the same as it is now with my 20 gig, I do not think I will mind.

thank you for calming my fears....

Frank D.

mkrishnan
Sep 8, 2005, 11:01 PM
Thanks Gary.
I currently transfer songs with this computer using either the usb port or the firewire on my 20 gig 4th gen ipod.....when I use the usb now with the 20 gig ipod, I don't think it is that slow....I must have low expectations.

I know I can no longer use the firewire to transfer songs, but if using my "old" usb1.1 is about the same as it is now with my 20 gig, I do not think I will mind.

thank you for calming my fears....

Frank D.

Hmmm...according to apple-history.com, there was at least one round of iMac G4s that still had 1GHz processors (at least in the 15" model) and also had USB2. They peg the first USB2 iMac G4's at Sep 2003.

And I'm actually not sure how you tell in system profiler. :eek: Do you have an entry for a USB High Speed Bus in addition to all the other USB entries in system profiler (in the right side, after you click on USB in the left)?

Nuc
Sep 8, 2005, 11:22 PM
They better not do away with firewire on the Mactel machines. All I have are FW external HD. Video cameras still use firewire to transfer video... I just purchased a Sony HDV camera so they better not. I really don't like USB 2, sure it has faster transfer speeds in bursts but FW is consistently fast (from my experience).

Nuc

Dr. Dastardly
Sep 8, 2005, 11:51 PM
hey man, some of us have older macs with firewire and Usb 1.1
Alright alright didn't mean to offend. You read post after post about the speed differences in firewire and usb 2 and they all start looking the same.

If its a connectivity issue could it be resolved with something like a
D-Link 4-Port USB 2.0, 3-Port Firewire, Combo Hub (http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=513590). Just a thought that this might be a work around if people really want to pay $60 for a work around.

I'm acutally suprised that it doesnt support firewire at all. I mean why? doesnt make any sense. :confused:

madmaxmedia
Sep 8, 2005, 11:57 PM
oops, delete! (how do I delete myself? I can't find a 'delete' button in the edit page)

faithfulFrank
Sep 9, 2005, 12:23 AM
Hmmm...according to apple-history.com, there was at least one round of iMac G4s that still had 1GHz processors (at least in the 15" model) and also had USB2. They peg the first USB2 iMac G4's at Sep 2003.

And I'm actually not sure how you tell in system profiler. :eek: Do you have an entry for a USB High Speed Bus in addition to all the other USB entries in system profiler (in the right side, after you click on USB in the left)?

Nothing says "High speed" bus...I assume that all I have is 1.1 USB.
I have a 17" imac G4.......I guess it is what it is...I'm happy with it. As long as the new nano will work with it, like my current 20 gig ipod does, I'll be happy.......you don't miss what you never had I guess....
Thanks!
Frank D.

kainjow
Sep 9, 2005, 12:46 AM
I'm willing to bet they dropped FW from the nano in order to conserve space. Probably not enough space for 2 chips to support USB and FW

DeSnousa
Sep 9, 2005, 12:56 AM
I'm willing to bet they dropped FW from the nano in order to conserve space. Probably not enough space for 2 chips to support USB and FW

I thought it was just a firmware?

Sedulous
Sep 9, 2005, 01:17 AM
I wanted to get a nano... but no firewire support... no deal.

Heb1228
Sep 9, 2005, 01:25 AM
I'm willing to bet they dropped FW from the nano in order to conserve space. Probably not enough space for 2 chips to support USB and FW
Ditto here. Its obviously to keep it smaller. The big boys (iPods) will continue to support Firewire. Apple is not dropping Firewire anytime soon.

antrabbit
Sep 9, 2005, 03:41 AM
As far as I'm aware (and i could be wrong) USB 1.1 runs at a maximum of 12Mbits/second whereas USB 2.0 is a maximum of 480Mbits/second. You may find using USB 1.1 painfully slow, it depends how often you want to change all the songs on your Nano.

caveman_uk
Sep 9, 2005, 04:15 AM
I thought it was just a firmware?
It's needs to be supported by the hardware inside the device and although you may be able to get dual FW/USB bridges (Maybe, I dunno?) they probably cost more and to be honest it's only mac owners with macs over 2 years old that haven't got USB2. I know it sucks but Apple sells more ipods to windows users than mac users and PCs have had USB2 for ages.

If you have a powermac G4 you can get a PCI card to add USB2 (certain chipsets only - NEC IIRC) to your mac. I have one in mine. Doesn't help much if you have something that doesn't have PCI slots...

Apple dragged it's feet introducing USB2 to macs...

Platform
Sep 9, 2005, 04:42 AM
Well this is kind of bad........FW is faster than USB 2.0 :mad:

just hope they don't go away from FW, because FW 800 is WAY faster than USB ;)

Loge
Sep 9, 2005, 04:44 AM
Anyone know if there are any USB2 pc cards available that would work in the slot in the older Powerbooks?

caveman_uk
Sep 9, 2005, 04:45 AM
You might be able to get a PCMCIA card that would fit in the PCCard slot. You'd need to check compatibility though.

javiercr
Sep 9, 2005, 07:53 AM
You have 1.1 - You can transfer, it will be slow.

Charge with your AC adapter.

it's only 2 or 4 Gb and then you are onlyl going to do incremental updates anyway , 1.1 is not going to be that bad.

gwuMACaddict
Sep 9, 2005, 07:57 AM
So basically if you have a 2-year-old Mac, you're effed.

you could always buy a powered usb hub for like $15...

caveman_uk
Sep 9, 2005, 08:03 AM
A USB2 hub doesn't make your USB1 computer have a USB2 connection. It only relays what it's given so a USB2 hub on a USB1 only machine is a USB1 hub.

mrgreen4242
Sep 9, 2005, 08:07 AM
you could always buy a powered usb hub for like $15...

Plugging a powered USB hub into a USB1.1 port is going to give you, wait for it, USB1.1 speeds. The person you are responding to is talking about the lack of USB2 ports on all but the newest Macs.

However, as I have stated before, and someone alluded to just a few post before yours, it's only 2 or 4 gb. The actual sustained data rate for USB1.1 is at least 1 megaBYTE per second, generally closer to 1.5. Your first sync is going to take about 45-60 minutes, but after that I am assuming that most people are not swapping the entire library out of the iPod, but exchanging a few songs here or there. Say 1gb at most for subsequent syncs. That's only 10-15 minutes, and not all that bad.

Would have rather seen FW, but I suppose the USB only connection keeps costs down and lets them sell to the broadest market, which also keeps costs down.

whooleytoo
Sep 9, 2005, 08:55 AM
However, as I have stated before, and someone alluded to just a few post before yours, it's only 2 or 4 gb. The actual sustained data rate for USB1.1 is at least 1 megaBYTE per second, generally closer to 1.5. Your first sync is going to take about 45-60 minutes, but after that I am assuming that most people are not swapping the entire library out of the iPod, but exchanging a few songs here or there. Say 1gb at most for subsequent syncs. That's only 10-15 minutes, and not all that bad.

I wouldn't be so sure.. the 'classic' iPods can carry most or all of most peoples' music collections, so people will probably just make incremental updates to them.

But since the mini & particularly shuffles and nanos are smaller, people can only hold some of their music, and thus are likely to change it more often.

davidwes
Sep 9, 2005, 03:31 PM
Does the nano come with an ac adapter or do you have to buy that seperate?

clayj
Sep 9, 2005, 03:34 PM
Does the nano come with an ac adapter or do you have to buy that seperate?Separately.

davidwes
Sep 9, 2005, 03:37 PM
So if you only have usb 1.0, like i do, even if your willing to put up with slow transfer rates, you still have to buy something extra to charge up the device?

So that means, if i bough this, I bought just the box, i would have no way to actually charge the batteries?

decksnap
Sep 9, 2005, 04:22 PM
No - I think you would be able to charge it through the USB 1.1 as long as it is a high-powered USB port. I actually forked over my old G4 tower to my mother for the sole purpose of charging her shuffle, since her Dell came with like ten USB ports of which zero were high-powered.

mkrishnan
Sep 9, 2005, 04:35 PM
Does the nano come with an ac adapter or do you have to buy that seperate?

The things that come in the box are:

In the Box

iPod nano
Earbud headphones
USB 2.0 cable
Dock adapter
QuickStart guide
CD with iTunes for Mac and Windows and features guide

So yes, as Clay said, separately; you can also charge it via the bus or via a USB or firewire AC adapter from a larger iPod, should you already own one such.

ham_man
Sep 9, 2005, 04:40 PM
I guess this is one way to drag people kicking and screaming into the future... planned obsolescence. I'd bet a donut that the next iPod (full-size) will also drop Firewire compatibility.
I'll bet a bearclaw they do not drop Firewire compatibility. Most new PeeCees come with Firewire, and Apple has no reason to drop support...

clayj
Sep 9, 2005, 04:43 PM
I'll bet a bearclaw they do not drop Firewire compatibility. Most new PeeCees come with Firewire, and Apple has no reason to drop support...Perhaps. But that's why I'm only willing to bet a donut and not something more valuable, such as a BOX of donuts.

mrgreen4242
Sep 9, 2005, 04:48 PM
I wouldn't be so sure.. the 'classic' iPods can carry most or all of most peoples' music collections, so people will probably just make incremental updates to them.

But since the mini & particularly shuffles and nanos are smaller, people can only hold some of their music, and thus are likely to change it more often.

According to Apple, 4gb = ~4000 minutes of music = 66.6 hours. Do you think that people are going to be swapping out 66+ hours of audio media on a regular basis?

As an iPod mini user (4gb) with somewhere between 11 and 18 gbs of audio media (I have a lot of audio books on DVD-R, I've never totaled it all up... 15gb would be a safe bet) I can say I swap MAYBE 500mb a day. Probably less. My music moods, tastes and collection doesn't change all at once. It's gradual, and so are the updates. I see the same pattern on all the people with music collections bigger than their iPods, and I am willing to bet that it's fairly typical.

davidwes
Sep 10, 2005, 11:21 AM
The things that come in the box are:



So yes, as Clay said, separately; you can also charge it via the bus or via a USB or firewire AC adapter from a larger iPod, should you already own one such.

Okay, but if i don't already own one, how do you charge the nano with just the items that come in the box? I've never owned an ipod before. will the ipod charge up while being conntect to usb 1?

mkrishnan
Sep 10, 2005, 11:56 AM
Okay, but if i don't already own one, how do you charge the nano with just the items that come in the box? I've never owned an ipod before. will the ipod charge up while being conntect to usb 1?

If you don't already own a charging brick and don't purchase one, then the only way you can charge it is through the USB port. It should charge through USB1.1 or 2.0, as long as the port is providing sufficient power. It may not work well through un-powered hubs, though, or the passthrough USB port on a keyboard, for instance. It should charge fine if you plug it directly into the USB port on a computer.