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morrisond
Oct 21, 2005, 08:35 AM
Hi,

I'm new to the Mac World. What Video Cards do I need to (if it is possible) to run three 20" Monitors? Will the virtual desktop spread across all three?

If I get an 2.3 or Quad Core 2.5 with the 6660 Card which supports two(128 Meg Ram each) do I just have to get a 6600 to run the other one? Can you order this from Apple?

I don't like the thought of having a horizontal line right in front of my face by only having 2 montiors, and the three 20's give me 5,040 pixels across instead of 2,560(30" Monitor) for the same price(I know they are not as many pixels high). I prefer Horizontal width to Vertical height and this setup gives me 5,292,000 of Pixels versus 4,090,000.

Any thoughts.

Thank you.

wordmunger
Oct 21, 2005, 08:44 AM
Yes, the G5 is designed to do this. But as crazyeddie notes, you need to use a PCIe graphics card.

iGary
Oct 21, 2005, 08:46 AM
Hi,

I'm new to the Mac World. What Video Cards do I need to (if it is possible) to run three 20" Monitors? Will the virtual desktop spread across all three?

If I get an 2.3 or Quad Core 2.5 with the 6660 Card which supports two(128 Meg Ram each) do I just have to get a 6600 to run the other one? Can you order this from Apple?

I don't like the thought of having a horizontal line right in front of my face by only having 2 montiors, and the three 20's give me 5,040 pixels across instead of 2,560(30" Monitor) for the same price(I know they are not as many pixels high). I prefer Horizontal width to Vertical height and this setup gives me 5,292,000 of Pixels versus 4,090,000.

Any thoughts.

Thank you.

What kind of work are you going to be using it for?

morrisond
Oct 21, 2005, 08:53 AM
What kind of work are you going to be using it for?

I'll be mainly using it for Photoshop(digital Photography). I also ususally have some Nikon Software(Probably will get Aperture as well it looks great) and a Browser or two as well.

I hate having to click between apps, I would love just to be able to see them all.

I'm also about to get a HDV Camcorder as well so I will be getting into editing that as well (two kids)

Chundles
Oct 21, 2005, 09:06 AM
Oop, look out morrisond, here comes the man with the best set up on the forum (bar my polystyrene one of course).

All he has to do is show you what the 30" looks like in a working environment and you'll so cave...

Dammit, I want one and I've only got an iBook.

Ah well, I'm $150 in the "saving for cool stuff account". Only what? $13,035.50 to go for my dream set up (I don't need the Quad for what I plan on doing, web surfing, email, word processing, encoding DVD's to the iPod, oh, and all on dial-up because of Telstra being cheap.

Abstract
Oct 21, 2005, 09:44 AM
I'll be mainly using it for Photoshop(digital Photography). I also ususally have some Nikon Software(Probably will get Aperture as well it looks great) and a Browser or two as well.

I hate having to click between apps, I would love just to be able to see them all.

I'm also about to get a HDV Camcorder as well so I will be getting into editing that as well (two kids)

You watched those Aperture features with the 3 photographers and their dual 30" ACDs, and you didn't think that was good enough? :eek:

Anyway, why don't you get two/three 24" LCDs from Dell? They're just as good or better than what Apple offers (and word on the streezeets is that the 20" isn't as good as the 24" in terms of quality.....although I'm just a poor student, so I have no idea), and they're cheaper as well. Three of the Dell 24" would give you 5760 horizontal pixels. Good price, too.

But I'm guessing you don't care about price. ;)

Or why not get three 30" ACDs? :D

Chundles
Oct 21, 2005, 09:55 AM
Or why not get three 30" ACDs? :D

Thanks Abstract - now I have to sell some organs. Stop putting ideas in my head.

And to the OP, the Dell monitor option is a good one, the 24" screens are superb and much cheaper than the Apple displays. Three of them would be pretty cool. And yes, you just need to add another Mac-compatible PCI-e graphics card to run extra monitors. Can you imagine running 2x30" and 6x23" monitors? All you'd need is a big swivel chair and you've got the "Ultimate Evil Genius" set-up.

Chaszmyr
Oct 21, 2005, 10:00 AM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, but the new PowerMacs (with 4 PCI-e slots), can easily run 8 23'' monitors or 4 30'' monitors (Even says so on Apple's site).

cube
Oct 21, 2005, 10:04 AM
Yes, because the quadro takes the space of 2 slots.

crazzyeddie
Oct 21, 2005, 11:32 AM
Yes, the G5 is designed to do this.
I don't think you have to get another 6600. You could also get a Radeon 9200 ...

Just to note, the G5 with PCIe cannot use PCI cards like the 9200 or AGP cards (probably pretty obvious).

cube
Oct 21, 2005, 11:43 AM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, but the new PowerMacs (with 4 PCI-e slots), can easily run 8 23'' monitors or 4 30'' monitors (Even says so on Apple's site).

Actually, it can run 4 30" AND 4 23" at the same time.

chaos86
Oct 21, 2005, 12:10 PM
i would say put your primary monitor on the best video card, then the other two on other card(s). That way, when gaming, photoshopping, or video editing, so long as the document or game is on the main screen, and palettes and reference files on the others, you wont see a difference but you'll save a bit (though $2400 worth of screens doesnt make it sound like $ is an issue).

wordmunger
Oct 21, 2005, 12:17 PM
Just to note, the G5 with PCIe cannot use PCI cards like the 9200 or AGP cards (probably pretty obvious).

Sorry about that -- I'll edit my original post to reflect that.

iGary
Oct 21, 2005, 12:21 PM
I'll be mainly using it for Photoshop(digital Photography). I also ususally have some Nikon Software(Probably will get Aperture as well it looks great) and a Browser or two as well.

I hate having to click between apps, I would love just to be able to see them all.

I'm also about to get a HDV Camcorder as well so I will be getting into editing that as well (two kids)

Three 20's are a poor choice, IMHO for photography. You can look at anything beyond about 33% (considering a 12MP sensor).

I had two twenties and HATED it for post processing work.

The 30 is a dream.

morrisond
Oct 21, 2005, 06:46 PM
What about 2 23's? I want to stick with the Apple displays as I like the USB connections on the Monitors, and besides the finish on the Displays match up nicely with my Samsung 50 DLP which will sit right beside it.

I measured the three 20's and there just not going to fit. I went to the Apple store today and played with a 23" Connected up to a 12" Powerbook in a virtual desktop, very nice.

I liked being able to have a seperate program up on a second screen.

How good will the 6600 be at running the 23's?

morrisond
Oct 21, 2005, 06:48 PM
Three 20's are a poor choice, IMHO for photography. You can look at anything beyond about 33% (considering a 12MP sensor).

I had two twenties and HATED it for post processing work.

The 30 is a dream.

I've only got a D70 (although the D2X or D100 replacement would be a nice upgrade) which is about 3,000 x 2,000.

Good point about the 30.

Decisions, Decisions...

Epicurus
Oct 22, 2005, 12:47 AM
Three 20's are a poor choice, IMHO for photography. You can look at anything beyond about 33% (considering a 12MP sensor).

I had two twenties and HATED it for post processing work.

The 30 is a dream.

Not personally owning any Apple displays, my opinions might not carry as much weight as a person who actually put up their own money for a 30" display (bravo, by the way). But i do serve on a committee that purchases computer hardware for the public labs at my University. For one graphics/design lab we bought a number of G5 workstations with dual 23" monitors for each. Getting a 30" works out to be about as expensive as two 23" displays, so why go for two rather than one? Space is important, but having a good, wide area to work with is also nice. Now my only experience with a 30" is in an Apple store, but a dual 23" setup is pretty sweet! I voted for the dual option and have heard no complaints (other than they want more than 2GB of RAM)...

radiantm3
Oct 22, 2005, 12:56 AM
I vote for the 30 as well. The 1600 pixel height makes all the difference in the world.

This site might help you with decisions: http://slacker.com/cinema.php Lets you compare display resolutions with the 30" display.

osprey76
Oct 22, 2005, 01:00 AM
Ah well, I'm $150 in the "saving for cool stuff account". Only what? $13,035.50 to go for my dream set up...

I'd add a bit more to that number. You surely want more than 1GB of RAM. :)


To the display question. This is all new now with PCIe, but I thought most video cards needed a 8x link minimum. The new Power Macs have 2 4x, 1 8x and 1 16x, so that would give you two video cards and easily support your proposed displays. I just mention this since it seems like you're looking at 4 displays maximum, rather than 8.

One last note, setting up the 3 displays is very simple in the Displays preference pane.

Bear
Oct 22, 2005, 06:12 AM
Hi,

I'm new to the Mac World. What Video Cards do I need to (if it is possible) to run three 20" Monitors? Will the virtual desktop spread across all three?

...I would recommend going for the largest possible display so you can see more of your photos on it at 100%. One possibility would be to get a 30" for the main display and then either a 20" or 23" as the secondary display.

Or if money is tight, start with a 30" and add a second display later.

Abstract
Oct 22, 2005, 06:42 AM
What about 2 23's? I want to stick with the Apple displays as I like the USB connections on the Monitors, and besides the finish on the Displays match up nicely with my Samsung 50 DLP which will sit right beside it.

I realize by now that you're already set on getting an Apple display, but the 24" Dells are better quality monitors than the 23" ACDs, and they have more connection ports than the ACDs. They also cost less. The only difference is the appearance/frame of the monitor itself.

Anyway, you can't lose whether you get a 23" ACD or 24" Dell. I can't even afford an external display of any sort, being a student right now. Gonna try and get me a Canon 350D Digital Rebel XT, Nikon D70s, or Nikon D50 digital SLR though. :) The D50 might actually be BETTER than the D70s overall, including image quality, although I do lose a few features, most of which won't matter (too much).

I hate when I get side-tracked. :(

morrisond
Oct 22, 2005, 07:47 AM
I'd add a bit more to that number. You surely want more than 1GB of RAM. :)


To the display question. This is all new now with PCIe, but I thought most video cards needed a 8x link minimum. The new Power Macs have 2 4x, 1 8x and 1 16x, so that would give you two video cards and easily support your proposed displays. I just mention this since it seems like you're looking at 4 displays maximum, rather than 8.

One last note, setting up the 3 displays is very simple in the Displays preference pane.

Given how much $ I'll be putting into this thing I see you get another 6600 card for $239. If I get one and put one in the 8X slot and run one 23" off each will I get double the frame rates? IS the 8X slot a limiting factor for the 6600 and will it run slower than the 6600 in the 16X slot?

Thanks

Bear
Oct 22, 2005, 07:54 AM
Given how much $ I'll be putting into this thing I see you get another 6600 card for $239. If I get one and put one in the 8X slot and run one 23" off each will I get double the frame rates? IS the 8X slot a limiting factor for the 6600 and will it run slower than the 6600 in the 16X slot?

ThanksActually I think the 6600 will run at full speed in the 4x slot. It will definitely run fine in the 8x slot.

Double the frame rate for what? After a certain number of frames per second, you just can't see the difference. Also, the optimal number of frames per second is the refresh rate of the screen - that is one frame per refresh.

One possibility is to buy it with one card and then if you have issues, get another card. Possibly the 7800 if it is ever released.

morrisond
Oct 22, 2005, 08:06 AM
Double the frame rate for what? After a certain number of frames per second, you just can't see the difference. Also, the optimal number of frames per second is the refresh rate of the screen - that is one frame per refresh.

One possibility is to buy it with one card and then if you have issues, get another card. Possibly the 7800 if it is ever released.[/QUOTE]


Double the frame rate for X-Plane! Which I will play from time to time. I'm leasing the computer(I can get a full write off in Canada against my income if I lease it nothing if I buy it - Crazy Canadian rules) so I would prefer to get everything I need up front.

BiikeMike
Oct 22, 2005, 11:22 AM
OK, this is slightly off topic, but if you have multiple displays, does the Dock show up on all of them? I know on a Windoze machine, the taskbar doesn't.

chaos86
Oct 22, 2005, 11:23 AM
OK, this is slightly off topic, but if you have multiple displays, does the Dock show up on all of them? I know on a Windoze machine, the taskbar doesn't.

nope
you choose in the display panel

one thing I dont miss about windows (98 so i dont know about xp), it the fact that you have no control over which screen will show the start bar, full screen games, movies etc.

iGary
Oct 22, 2005, 11:41 AM
I've only got a D70 (although the D2X or D100 replacement would be a nice upgrade) which is about 3,000 x 2,000.

Good point about the 30.

Decisions, Decisions...

I process about 1,200 D2X images on a good day. The two twenties were killing me.

I think I may get another thirty, though, after watching the Aperture videos. :rolleyes: :eek:

ReanimationLP
Oct 22, 2005, 11:58 AM
I process about 1,200 D2X images on a good day. The two twenties were killing me.

I think I may get another thirty, though, after watchign the Aperture videos. :rolleyes: :eek:

iGary has deep deep pockets. I jumped in them and got lost!

iGary
Oct 22, 2005, 12:03 PM
iGary has deep deep pockets. I jumped in them and got lost!

Nah, I was just commenting on the marketing brilliance of Apple. It made me
feel like I needed two of them....

http://www.apple.com/aperture/profiles/?kluetmeier

osprey76
Oct 22, 2005, 01:18 PM
Actually I think the 6600 will run at full speed in the 4x slot. It will definitely run fine in the 8x slot.

You're right.

The 8x or 16x designation refers to the PCIe slot. It seems the nVidia 6600 video card is being fed enough data in a 4x slot. So, putting it in a 8x slot would not make a difference on performance since the extra bandwidth isn't in use. Something like the 7800 probably has to be in the 16x slot.

The Cinema Displays refresh at 60-75 Hz, so framerates beyond this are unecessary. Also, usually framerates are reserved for 3D games and the like. Any video card can easily put out the updates for typical use. Using say Photoshop doesn't tax your video card, it relies on the CPU. Also, this will change as more developer's embrace Core Video. Aperture is an example of this. Core Video uses the video card to produce real-time effects. Rather than using the CPU to do all of the computations, Core Video does the same work on the video card. So, if you're looking to use Aperture a lot (or Final Cut Pro, Motion, et al.), it might be worth it to get the 7800 for your primary displays.

CanadaRAM
Oct 22, 2005, 01:22 PM
I'm leasing the computer(I can get a full write off in Canada against my income if I lease it nothing if I buy it - Crazy Canadian rules) so I would prefer to get everything I need up front.
Huh? Can't you capitalize the equipment and depreciate it over three years if you buy it? What personal/corporate structure do you have?

macbaseball
Oct 22, 2005, 01:32 PM
Nah, I was just commenting on the marketing brilliance of Apple. It made me
feel like I needed two of them....

http://www.apple.com/aperture/profiles/?kluetmeier

iGary - Have 2 questions for you:

1) Do you plan on buying Aperture and use it as your photo manager for your work.

2) I was just curious - What exactly do you do with Photoshop. You seem to always say, "I'm using Photoshop all day etc." yet I don't really understand what you are doing. So you get the images from the photographers, and then what do you do. Could you just take me through what you do with a hypothetical image. Your job sounds cool, and I was just wondering if your field would interest me when I'm out of high school.

morrisond
Oct 22, 2005, 02:44 PM
Huh? Can't you capitalize the equipment and depreciate it over three years if you buy it? What personal/corporate structure do you have?

As an individual I don't believe you can. I'm a Investment Advisor and are write offs are limited we can't capitalize anything, but I am allowed to write off the lease of a home computer.

morrisond
Oct 22, 2005, 02:48 PM
You're right.

, it might be worth it to get the 7800 for your primary displays.

From what I've read the 7800 is not going to be available, so that is why I was thinking two 6600 for a relatively cheap solution and half decent frame rates.

I like Flight sims as well and supposedly in the latest version of X-Plane I can use the full 3,940 *1,200 pixels of two 23's which is why I'M thinking of more Video Horespower.

Hopefully they have the 7800 or it's equivalent ready by the time my computers ready to ship.

iGary
Oct 22, 2005, 03:08 PM
iGary - Have 2 questions for you:

1) Do you plan on buying Aperture and use it as your photo manager for your work.

2) I was just curious - What exactly do you do with Photoshop. You seem to always say, "I'm using Photoshop all day etc." yet I don't really understand what you are doing. So you get the images from the photographers, and then what do you do. Could you just take me through what you do with a hypothetical image. Your job sounds cool, and I was just wondering if your field would interest me when I'm out of high school.

1. It's already ordered. The program appears absolutely flawless. It combines Photoshop, Portfolio and some other yummy features I am using multiple apps for currently.

2. I get in digital aerial photographs from about 7 teams in Europe, the Med and North America on a daily basis burned to DVD.

My job is to edit them, color correct them and make sure that the photographer takes the specified angles for each target (usually a marina, large yacht harbor, waterfront) per the client's specification. Haze, overexposure, fog, glare all get corrected in Photoshop. Sometimes batch, sometimes one at a time.

I also have to make sure that each image has proper GPS metadata, the file names meet the client's specs (they are bloody tedious) I use Adobe's POS Bridge for this.

All of this then gets batched in large 1,200-image folders (about 42 GB of data to crunch a day), and then burned to multiple DVD's for delivery.

Then I have to Keyword them, catalog them, get them ready for Web...blah de blah de blah. I use Portfolio for this.

Aperture appears to all of this seamlessly.

By the way, I much prefer to be hanging out of the chopper being the one takingthe pictures (I specialize in aerial, maritime and nautical photography). This gig is just to raise some capital to move onto other things once the contract is up. If you have any questions, PM me.

*excited about Aperture*

I just hope they don't deliver the effing thing in January. :rolleyes:

Artful Dodger
Oct 22, 2005, 03:45 PM
iGary

*excited about Aperture*

I just hope they don't deliver the effing thing in January.


At 6:30 am, knock, knock :p

pdpfilms
Oct 22, 2005, 04:44 PM
At 6:30 am, knock, knock :p

Hahaha, forgot about that one.

p0intblank
Oct 22, 2005, 05:01 PM
iGary, I had no idea you do that much work with photos. Dealing 42 GB of photos a day is no fun easy task. Sure it may be enjoyable since it is your specialty, but does it ever get annoying? And I'm guessing Aperture will make your job much easier, correct?

macbaseball
Oct 22, 2005, 06:33 PM
Thank you iGary for taking the time to tell me about you job. Sounds like a lot of work, but at least you get to use a Mac alll day.

iGary
Oct 22, 2005, 06:35 PM
At 6:30 am, knock, knock :p

LOL!!

Yeah, it get's annoying at times...boring....but today I did images form the south of France - very cool.

It's like any other job - highs and lows. ;)

chucknorris
Oct 23, 2005, 04:51 AM
LOL!!

Yeah, it get's annoying at times...boring....but today I did images form the south of France - very cool.

It's like any other job - highs and lows. ;)

I must ask, and this can be directed at professionals in general.

Does the productivity gained by the new dual dual-core PowerMac justify an upgrade?

Is faster processing always needed or do the bottlenecks occur elsewhere?

barneygumble
Oct 23, 2005, 05:49 AM
I must ask, and this can be directed at professionals in general.

Does the productivity gained by the new dual dual-core PowerMac justify an upgrade?

Is faster processing always needed or do the bottlenecks occur elsewhere?

Just wait until photographers start shooting with the new kodak 39MP image sensor:p

VanMac
Oct 23, 2005, 06:04 PM
I'm planning out my new system as well. I had been thinking that I would go with either 2 Apple 23" ACDs. or 2 24" Dell displays.

Spent an hour in the Apple store last week. Spent considerable time on the 30" ACD. Gotta tell ya.....I'm really getting swayed in that direction. The amount of realestate on that one screen is just amazing. Huge timeline on FCP. High Res photo's are just......HUGE. New price drops help as well. It's now $800 cheaper CDN (but still a lot of coinage).

Still thinking...........

chaos86
Oct 23, 2005, 06:37 PM
I was in the apple store at lenox mall last week and downloaded a quicktime move from apple.com/quicktime (one of the high res trailers). the dual 2.5ghz PM with 1.5gb ram and a 30" ACD (with, I assume a pretty damn nice video card to run it, didnt check), was hiccuping on a 1080i h264 file! This tells me that dual monitors on seperate cards might still be the way to go because that one card, despite being able to make a safari window look stupid in a sea of blue desktop, still cant do full motion graphics scaled to that many pixels. I was very disappointed.

radiantm3
Oct 23, 2005, 09:04 PM
I was in the apple store at lenox mall last week and downloaded a quicktime move from apple.com/quicktime (one of the high res trailers). the dual 2.5ghz PM with 1.5gb ram and a 30" ACD (with, I assume a pretty damn nice video card to run it, didnt check), was hiccuping on a 1080i h264 file! This tells me that dual monitors on seperate cards might still be the way to go because that one card, despite being able to make a safari window look stupid in a sea of blue desktop, still cant do full motion graphics scaled to that many pixels. I was very disappointed.

I wonder what GPU it had in it. I play 1080i h264 trailers just fine with my 30" display. And I only have a dual 1.8ghz G5. Plays at full frames. When I had the geforce5200, I only got about 10-15fps with those videos. I think the GPU plays a huge role in h264 playback.

chaos86
Oct 24, 2005, 08:03 AM
i guess it must be the gpu if your 1.8 can do it fine. this makes me wonder how the 15 and 17" PBs hold up to 1080i on a 30" ACD.

Chad A Wright
Oct 24, 2005, 08:25 PM
As a proud owner of a brand new 30", I honestly can't tell you which way to go. When I ordered the monitor along with the Quad G5, it never occured to me that they would ship the monitor a month before the computer. So now, I have a beautiful new monitor just sitting on my desk, waiting for a computer powerful enough to drive it (my Powerbook doesn't cut it).

I can tell you, though, it looks as impressive as you can get. It is massive. Which is exactly the effect I was going for. It's nice to have clients come in and show them their project on a monitor like this.

It makes the 20" ACD I'm using now look small. That's sad. I remember how big it looked when I first got it.

chaos86
Oct 24, 2005, 08:36 PM
i think three 20s in a panorama set up would be sweet.

unless the 20's still arent color accurate.

BiikeMike
Oct 24, 2005, 10:20 PM
As a proud owner of a brand new 30", I honestly can't tell you which way to go. When I ordered the monitor along with the Quad G5, it never occured to me that they would ship the monitor a month before the computer. So now, I have a beautiful new monitor just sitting on my desk, waiting for a computer powerful enough to drive it (my Powerbook doesn't cut it).

I can tell you, though, it looks as impressive as you can get. It is massive. Which is exactly the effect I was going for. It's nice to have clients come in and show them their project on a monitor like this.

It makes the 20" ACD I'm using now look small. That's sad. I remember how big it looked when I first got it.

Damn man, what do you do? Thats the setup I want :cool: