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MacRumors
May 3, 2006, 10:51 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Christopher Price from PCSInfo.com reports that Apple is replacing (http://www.sprintpcsinfo.com/content/view/14/1/) early Macbook Pro batteries (serial numbers up to W8608) that are experiencing multiple failures.

Symptoms of battery failure include battery cutting off power to the system at very early stages, sporadic ampere hour reporting (coconutBattery), and the battery failing to respond when pressing the charging status button (after being charged and only slightly drained).

Early Macbook Pros have been plagued with numerous issues (flickering, whining, heat). Recently, users at SomethingAwful.com posted a link to an Apple Service Manual that showed that Apple was instructing its service technicians to misapply thermal grease on heatsinks. Indeed, the user reported that opening up the Macbook and re-applying the proper amount of thermal grease resulted in a dramatic drop in operating temperature. Webmasters at the site were subsequently met with a cease and desist order for linking to the service manual.

Some users fed up with their whining Macbook Pro's are massing (http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=16296) to all call Apple's support numbers on Saturday, May 20th.

In related news, summer 2004 1.25 Ghz eMac's (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/05/20060501155840.shtml) also seem to be having significant hardware issues.

iHotu
May 3, 2006, 10:54 PM
.

ZildjianKX
May 3, 2006, 10:56 PM
Why does the RSS feed say "generously replacing" but the news post doesn't? :confused:

Guess I'm anal...

[admin edit: it was a different edit]

Stridder44
May 3, 2006, 10:59 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
Recently, users at SomethingAwful.com posted a link to an Apple Service Manual that showed that Apple was instructing its service technicians to misapply thermal grease on heatsinks. Indeed, the user reported that opening up the Macbook and re-applying the proper amount of thermal grease resulted in a dramatic drop in operating temperature. Webmasters at the site were subsequently met with a cease and desist order for linking to the service manual.


This is such @!#$%!. Apple really needs to get their head out of their a$$ on this one, suing for a link?? And who cares if they (the owners of the MBPs) are opening up their machines? Maybe Apple should actually fix the heat problem with the MBP instead of having joe shmoe sue some random person on a forum.

Mudbug
May 3, 2006, 10:59 PM
I think this is just another notch in the "I don't think I'll buy the first version of any hi-level technology product from anybody including Apple" belt.

I want a MacBook Pro, but can stomach the wait while I watch the beta testers have a good ol' time. :)

longofest
May 3, 2006, 11:01 PM
Why does the RSS feed say "generously replacing" but the news post doesn't? :confused:

Guess I'm anal...

you hit it the story at the precise time when the moon and earth aligned with the sun and jupiter to create a cosmic rift...

seriously... they just weren't synced up (the story had just been slightly edited). Should be fine now.

mortey
May 3, 2006, 11:01 PM
this is a shame. I think we all need to send apple some cornbread and maybe they'll fix these problems asap. :eek:

Totty
May 3, 2006, 11:01 PM
I think this is just another notch in the "I don't think I'll buy the first version of any hi-level technology product from anybody including Apple" belt.

I want a MacBook Pro, but can stomach the wait while I watch the beta testers have a good ol' time. :)

Yep, this the number one reason why I'm considering an ibook/powerbook before a MBP, and why waiting for a MacBook is out of the question.

MacsomJRR
May 3, 2006, 11:07 PM
Love me some beta testers...

Love me jealous mo-fo's who don't have a MBP.

xparaparafreakx
May 3, 2006, 11:11 PM
I cancel the two 15" for two 17" so I better not get these bugs.

jaydub
May 3, 2006, 11:13 PM
One thing that is unclear -- was apple instructing their technicians to purposely misapply the thermal grease? :confused:

Sutekidane
May 3, 2006, 11:14 PM
Mine doesn't whine really, but it does heat up VERY much. I'm tempted to open it up to check the thermal grease, but I don't want to risk voiding the warranty since I got it like a month ago.

freiheit
May 3, 2006, 11:14 PM
this is a shame. I think we all need to send apple some cornbread and maybe they'll fix these problems asap. :eek:

"I guess she didn't like the cornbread, either."

Name the movie and win... well, your own personal approval. I haven't much to offer.

bordenkecher
May 3, 2006, 11:25 PM
so, is it right to understand that the only solution to my overheating issues on my mbp is to open it myself and re-app everything... has anyone tried to send their mbp back to apple to get it fixed?


MOD EDIT: user exlaims his distaste for Apple (using some profanity)...

bretm
May 3, 2006, 11:28 PM
This is such @!#$%!. Apple really needs to get their head out of their a$$ on this one, suing for a link?? And who cares if they (the owners of the MBPs) are opening up their machines? Maybe Apple should actually fix the heat problem with the MBP instead of having joe shmoe sue some random person on a forum.

Well, you don't technically have the right to link to other sites resources, but it's a grey area. To link to an apple page, probably no problem. But to link simply to a pdf file or a jpeg file gets a little grey. It would certainly be illegal to insert their images into your page.

So yeah, nitpicky on Apple's part, but they certainly don't want him using their resources just to bad mouth them.

And they didn't sue the guy. The sent a cease and desist. Which means "stop and stop." :) A threat I guess.

Abstract
May 3, 2006, 11:29 PM
One thing that is unclear -- was apple instructing their technicians to purposely misapply the thermal grease? :confused:
Yeah, that bit doesn't make sense to me, either.

And isn't it a bad sign when a story about Apple MBPs is on a webpage called "Something Awful"?? :o

jaydub
May 3, 2006, 11:31 PM
Yeah, that bit doesn't make sense to me, either.

And isn't it a bad sign when a story about Apple MBPs is on a webpage called "Something Awful"?? :o
haha SA is just a random webboard. It's actually got its funny moments, their photoshop challenges are outstanding.

nagromme
May 3, 2006, 11:33 PM
A typo in a service manual is never what you want!

Hopefully Apple will provide the necessary warranty repairs.


so, is it right to understand that the only solution to my overheating issues on my mbp is to open it myself and re-app everything... has anyone tried to send their mbp back to apple to get it fixed?


I expect Apple would do the re-app (if that's truly the right fix), but if it were me, not wanting needless hassle, I'd wait until it's very clear that Apple is doing that procedure and has let all the techs know. It's better to be part of the solution phase than the discovery phase (when some will be missed and need to go back again). I'd wait a week or three, watch user reports of the issue, and then call Apple when it looks like they're consistently handling the issue correctly.

longofest
May 3, 2006, 11:35 PM
One thing that is unclear -- was apple instructing their technicians to purposely misapply the thermal grease? :confused:

The picture was quite clear that technicians were instructed to put a big glob of thermal grease on the heat sinks, so yes it was intentional in that respect. I don't think, however, that it was some sort of malicous thing... Someone made a HUGE engineering goof. And when I say huge, I mean HUGE.

Well, you don't technically have the right to link to other sites resources, but it's a grey area. To link to an apple page, probably no problem. But to link simply to a pdf file or a jpeg file gets a little grey. It would certainly be illegal to insert their images into your page.

So yeah, nitpicky on Apple's part, but they certainly don't want him using their resources just to bad mouth them.

And they didn't sue the guy. The sent a cease and desist. Which means "stop and stop." :) A threat I guess.

The deep link wasn't the problem. It was what they deep linked to. Service manuals are for tech's eyes only, and not supposed to be seen by the public. I'm guessing that's especially true when they have a very big and embarassing goof-up in it.

jaydub
May 3, 2006, 11:43 PM
The picture was quite clear that technicians were instructed to put a big glob of thermal grease on the heat sinks, so yes it was intentional in that respect. I don't think, however, that it was some sort of malicous thing... Someone made a HUGE engineering goof. And when I say huge, I mean HUGE.Thanks for the clarification. I had figured as much, but the way it was presented made it look like it could have been malicious. At least it's something relatively minor (albeit inconvenient for current owners who are affected). It could've been a major component, which would've been even worse.

odedia
May 3, 2006, 11:43 PM
One thing that is unclear -- was apple instructing their technicians to purposely misapply the thermal grease? :confused:


Yes, they were. That's the whole problem right there: you send your machine to get fixed, and they keep the thermal paste just as it was because it says so in their service manual.

They had an excellent report by someone on the apple discussion boards that showed the whole mess, but apple took the thread down, it seems. It was really embarrasing to read. Made apple look REALLY bad. The picture of the thermal paste looked awful.

Oded S.

Maxx Power
May 3, 2006, 11:45 PM
This is such @!#$%!. Apple really needs to get their head out of their a$$ on this one, suing for a link?? And who cares if they (the owners of the MBPs) are opening up their machines? Maybe Apple should actually fix the heat problem with the MBP instead of having joe shmoe sue some random person on a forum.

Yeah, i saw the posting before it made its way to the forum here, seems a bit sluggish that theinquirer always get the bits before the mac forums do somehow...

Anyway, the pictures were hilarious, it was exactly opposite to all the makers of "heat goo" for their instructions, but that's only if you are technically savvy enough to have done installations of heatsinks before.

longofest
May 3, 2006, 11:48 PM
Thanks for the clarification. I had figured as much, but the way it was presented made it look like it could have been malicious. At least it's something relatively minor (albeit inconvenient for current owners who are affected). It could've been a major component, which would've been even worse.

Below is the link to the somethingawful site.

WARNING!!! The site includes some vulgar and crude images and language. That being said, it also has very telling images of the Macbook Pro thermal problem. I don't believe that the site would create any workplace issues, however, the warning is there for people who are easiliy offended by crude language and images. Still, might be best to view this on a non-work computer...

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1864582

jaydub
May 3, 2006, 11:53 PM
Man that really IS glopped all over the place isn't it! :eek:

ArizonaKid
May 3, 2006, 11:59 PM
If anyone is still looking for the full Service (disassembly) operators manual I have it posted.

http://geekywino.wordpress.com/

Enjoy the manual :)

p.s. "If you surf around the site you will see I use Windows as my primary OS and discuss the switch." I've gotten some nice emails from Mac heads, I still own Macs so don't get too worked up with my criticism.

200paul
May 4, 2006, 12:02 AM
I had a MacBook Pro for a what was a month but was really only 5 days.

I bought it and it was plagued with problems - mostly the whine.

Sent it in for service, after 3 weeks of service they just caved and gave me a new one - that one was a whiner too.

Week later the old one came back .... unfixed.

Got a refund on the whole thing.

There are some good MBP out there and really had it not been a noisy freakin machine I thought it was the freaking greatest computer I ever had in my hands but I couldn't deal.

I feel i'm amung friends here so i can say this ... I bought a PC for work and i kinda like it. It's a Lenovo, it was $900 for a 14" widescreen with a centrino core duo 1.6 it has an 80GB hard drive and wifi bluetooth and a dvd/cd-rw combo with XP Pro. I took all the crap preloaded on it and loaded Firefox, ThunderBird, iTunes and Photoshop Elements. Its really nice, super fast and feels good. I can only say its tempting. Especially since with Mac its getting to be every time the wind blows you have to rebuy your software to make it "compatible" and if the hardware sucks (Macbook Pro) that's out currently you only can wait until the next rev, with Windows there are many vendors that you can choose from. I mean its tempting.

St Soichiro
May 4, 2006, 12:09 AM
Love me jealous mo-fo's who don't have a MBP.

LOL - funny. I agree. No whine, no gripes, a bit warmer than my PB G4, but oooh so much faster! Very-very happy with my 2.16 MBP.

200paul
May 4, 2006, 12:18 AM
LOL - funny. I agree. No whine, no gripes, a bit warmer than my PB G4, but oooh so much faster! Very-very happy with my 2.16 MBP.


This is the worst thing about this that it has turned Mac users (brothers in arms if you will) against each other. The Apple boards are filled with people who are having problems and hating life and people that aren't who are being arrogant saying that their life is perfect.

The truth is Apple can make bad machines as well as good and that there are definatly both out there.

Demon
May 4, 2006, 12:19 AM
I am not at all surprised at the poor construction of Apple laptops...
having gone through 3 generations of faulty powerbboks, from 5300 to the G4 pBook. they all had problems and die eventually... :(

kenn8theocho
May 4, 2006, 12:37 AM
I was considering waiting for the 13.3" Macbook, but it is advised by most techs to wait about 6 mos. before buying a totally new computer. That's why i picked the powerbook 12" (I also don't want the plastic case that will come with the macbook 13.3"). If you want one of then new macbook pros, you have to wait for them to fix the glitches. For example, if you ordered windows xp (crap) when it first came out, you would get a insane number of bugs. But if it was purchased let's say 3 most later, It had very few os problems (even though it still is crap). Wait it out... or go for the computers that apple has been refining for years.

Demon
May 4, 2006, 12:45 AM
Unbelievable. after all the help from macrumors and the internet, i've fixed the whine in my laptop... and it didn't take the 500 USD that Apple wanted me to pay to fix it. thanks to all that replied it "Why do Macs Suck - a diehard fan" thread. appreciate it all. check out the reason for the whine and grind HERE:
or
http://equipian.blogspot.com/2006/05...em-solved.html

I totally expected to find something like this...

Doctor Q
May 4, 2006, 12:54 AM
Some users fed up with their whining Macbook Pro's are massing (http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=16296) to all call Apple's support numbers on Saturday, May 20th.Is this the first time a group effort to phone Apple like this has been organized? It's bound to be more effective than yet another online petition.

deckwalker
May 4, 2006, 12:54 AM
For what it's worth, I love my MBP. It's FAR quieter than my work issued HP laptop, and much cooler than my old 867 MHz 12" PB, and it's faster than the two put together. I did have a DVD stick in the drive but was able to remove it eventually. I expect teething problems with a Revision A, but have had fewer issues than I anticipated. I'd buy it all over again.

St Soichiro
May 4, 2006, 01:03 AM
This is the worst thing about this that it has turned Mac users (brothers in arms if you will) against each other. The Apple boards are filled with people who are having problems and hating life and people that aren't who are being arrogant saying that their life is perfect.

The truth is Apple can make bad machines as well as good and that there are definatly both out there.

Did not want to come across as being arrogant. Just pointing out that my MBP is working fine. I can truely sympathize with those that are stuck with a not-so-OK machine after having spent a lot of money. But one only hears about the not-working ones, so I wanted to point out that there are (atleast) some of us who are not having major problems/issues.

Bob Knob
May 4, 2006, 01:04 AM
I am not at all surprised at the poor construction of Apple laptops...
having gone through 3 generations of faulty powerbboks, from 5300 to the G4 pBook. they all had problems and die eventually... :(

For me it is the exact opposite. All my gear is ver A and I never seem to have any of the issues. I even have a preproduction (can't say the model) and a ver A of the same model sitting side by side and neither have had any issues in the years that I have been using them. I'm not trying to say that some people aren't having problems, but I just don't get it when someone says they have had nothing but problems.

Kingsly
May 4, 2006, 01:05 AM
I am wondering... can I instruct them to reapply my thermal grease (the correct way!) since my MBP is going to be in for a keyboard replacement anyway? Do you think they'd do it?

200paul
May 4, 2006, 01:09 AM
Did not want to come across as being arrogant. Just pointing out that my MBP is working fine. I can truely sympathize with those that are stuck with a not-so-OK machine after having spent a lot of money. But one only hears about the not-working ones, so I wanted to point out that there are (atleast) some of us who are not having major problems/issues.

Sorry didn't mean you - the Apple boards is where you find those peeps. The ones that say "the only whine i hear if from you people".

Lollypop
May 4, 2006, 01:13 AM
Welcome to the world of Intel Apple! I remember a few discussions between the modders at my university, hours of discussions on what thermal paste is better with what type of heatsink!

I will wait for a official second revision before I go for a MBP (or the way my finances are going the 15th official revision :( )

CHROMEDOME
May 4, 2006, 01:16 AM
Rev. A new processor hardware, everyone says not to buy Rev. A and then you can't resist. Then you whine about problems. Duh, its going to have problems. Rev A anything is pretty risky, I learned that from my Rev A iMac G5 and its 2 replaced logic boards.





GOONS!!!

xsedrinam
May 4, 2006, 01:20 AM
I think this is just another notch in the "I don't think I'll buy the first version of any hi-level technology product from anybody including Apple" belt.

I want a MacBook Pro, but can stomach the wait while I watch the beta testers have a good ol' time. :)
The sage voice of wisdom....has those who'll follow suit, in the good sense.

EricNau
May 4, 2006, 01:36 AM
Apple really screwed up with this one.

Kelmon
May 4, 2006, 02:04 AM
Not sure if this has been posted already but, with reference to the whining problem of the MacBook Pro's, didn't Steve note when the laptop was announced that "these things are screamers"...

Based on that I'd suggest that just whining was an improvement.

Wellander
May 4, 2006, 02:33 AM
Hi,
I know that this is off topic however.
We have not heared too many issues about the intel base imacs of mac mini's.
So that is a good thing.
And as far as the 1.25 ghz emacs apple should make a repair extention on it.

odedia
May 4, 2006, 02:37 AM
Apple really screwed up with this one.

That sure sums it up for me.

My MBP is back at the dealer. I am waiting for my refund.

Oded S.

Nookie()Bear
May 4, 2006, 02:42 AM
As an Apple qualified tech I can say that the pics in this takeapart are not a new thing.

Thermal grease has been applied to a lot of mac products, and in most cases the pics are like that - imac g5's, imac g4's, pbs

ok some have thermal pads, but this so-called misapplication is not new.

Brad Raple
May 4, 2006, 02:48 AM
Rev. A new processor hardware, everyone says not to buy Rev. A and then you can't resist. Then you whine about problems. Duh, its going to have problems. Rev A anything is pretty risky, I learned that from my Rev A iMac G5 and its 2 replaced logic boards.





GOONS!!!

I"m sorry. I must be one of those goons. I was extremely excited about getting a MBP, and drove an hour and a half to pick mine up. I loved it at first, but the whine was bad, it kept dropping my airport connection (sometimes forgetting the WEP key to boot) the battery life was unimpressive, and the thing was scalding to the touch. Now we know why. All those problems are behind me now, because I think the Mag Safe power socket died on me last night. It won't take a charge at all, and the battery is out of juice.

I know they wanted to rush the product out, but there is absolutely no excuse to ship a product that has such widespread, serious problems. Especially from a company like Apple. ESPECIALLY at this price point. I would be angry if a $500 laptop had these issues. I'm FURIOUS that my $2000 Mac is having them. I have two $500 Dells in my closet that don't. And no, I'm not a Windows fanboy. I'm PISSED that I HAVE to use them instead of my broken, brand new MBP.

"Duh, it's going to have problems."

Why? Why should it? Give me one good reason, and "Because all Rev A's have them!" isn't going to cut it.

Apple's early adopters should not need to be referred to as "beta testers". When the thing is on the retail shelf, the time for beta testing and quality control is done. And I haven't spent ANY money on Firefox, Gmail, Adium, or any other "beta" product I've used. This is a RETAIL version of a flagship product that has the potential to be a true switcher computer. I'm sure all of my Windows friends will be impressed when I tell them my MBP is in the shop because Apple decided to use THREE FREAKING TUBES of thermal paste inside the thing. I know middleschoolers that know how wrong that is.

The sick thing is that Apple will keep me as a customer, regardless of how crappy they treat me. I feel like a battered woman that has nowhere to go but the streets if she leaves her abusive boyfriend, all the while hoping he'll change. They've got me hooked, but they've got 95% of the rest of the world to worry about. The publicity this BS gets can't help them win any new converts.

Sorry this is so long, but as I said before, I'm PISSED. :mad:

Bakey
May 4, 2006, 02:50 AM
Love me jealous mo-fo's who don't have a MBP.

Nah, still loving the beta-testers... You're all doing a damn fine job!! ;)

Mind you, I'm likely to be in the same predicament as the moment the PowerMac replacements are announced Mr. Visa is being dusted off and severely melted... Oh the joy and pain of it all!! :rolleyes:

Stridder44
May 4, 2006, 02:59 AM
Well, you don't technically have the right to link to other sites resources, but it's a grey area. To link to an apple page, probably no problem. But to link simply to a pdf file or a jpeg file gets a little grey. It would certainly be illegal to insert their images into your page.

So yeah, nitpicky on Apple's part, but they certainly don't want him using their resources just to bad mouth them.

And they didn't sue the guy. The sent a cease and desist. Which means "stop and stop." :) A threat I guess.

Yes, this is true. I was just ranting cuz I know Apples better than this to let problems like these slip by.

Kind of like how Brad Raple appears to feel

illegalprelude
May 4, 2006, 03:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macrumors


In related news, summer 2004 1.25 Ghz eMac's also seem to be having significant hardware issues.
wtf?

ok, thank god, somebody else too. wth does that have to do with anything?

B. the whole thermal paste thing. So did apple by accident say put on more Paste then was needed?

Music_Producer
May 4, 2006, 03:45 AM
"Duh, it's going to have problems."

Why? Why should it? Give me one good reason, and "Because all Rev A's have them!" isn't going to cut it.

Apple's early adopters should not need to be referred to as "beta testers".


I absolutely agree with you. I find people here that scoff at all the early purchasers as 'beta testers' absolutely ridiculous. Hopefully, they will get a shoddy Rev. B product, and then they will understand how 'beta testers' feel.

I mean, if I were a Quality Control manager.. sheesh, I would spend considerable amount of time to make sure the product didn't have such noticeable issues.. like the whine and the heat. Sure, I might miss things which don't appear problematic, until prolonged usage.. but come on, a high pitched sound and crazy temperatures?

You would think that they just assembled these units without any temperature measurements, performance measurements, no testing for any 'audio anomaly'.. terrible. Absolutely terrible. And what makes it worse, is, that its from Apple. We apple fans are so used to impeccable quality, that we wouldn't think twice of dropping down $2500 for a 15" MBP.

Hardware problems like these are the things we expect the least from Apple.. whether its a Rev A or a Rev Z product.. there shouldn't be such issues. No excuses.

Sometimes I question if its worth paying so much premium for an operating system running on a beautiful, but erroneously functioning hardware unit.

sunfast
May 4, 2006, 04:06 AM
Why would Apple instruct engineers to misapply grease? That makes no sense at all as it would only come back to bite them. Still, if it's true at least it means the heat issue can be dealt with.

I still want a MBP but not as much as I used to.

TBi
May 4, 2006, 04:10 AM
I also agree that all these problems should have been fixed before it came out. Or even at least by now. I just bought my MBP and it will be waiting for me at home some time today and now i'm worried that i will have all these problems.

Thankfully i got a standard one so it might be easier to return it. Ugh...

Staffroomer
May 4, 2006, 04:14 AM
I'm sure somebody else has already said this. But never buy first generation.. Duh... :rolleyes:

MIDI_EVIL
May 4, 2006, 04:15 AM
I am quite a late switcher, only been a Mac user for 15 months. I did not switch for any other reason than to use OS X.

Where i live, there are very few people who use Mac. Everyone has an iPod, but noone has a Mac.

I took the plunge and bought a PowerBook 1.67 to get my through my Video degree as i'd been using iMovie (very early days) and moved onto FCP. It has been incredible. Fast, efficient, reliable and the build quality is outstanding, and i cannot believe it took me so long to become a Mac user.

I am slightly worried, that Apple has gone so far up it's own A$$ that we will see a downward spiral of quality control for Macs that follow. Apple got high on the iPod success, and i think this could damage them. They need these Intel Macs to be perfect. They should concentrate on the computer side of Apple, or make the iPod a sister company to Apple. I just feel they need to concentrate more on what they started out producing.

I am worried that unless the MacBook Pro/MacBook is perfect, i will have to think twice about future Apple computers, which is something i never thought i would have to do.

Rich.

BornAgainMac
May 4, 2006, 04:36 AM
I'm sure somebody else has already said this. But never buy first generation.. Duh... :rolleyes:

What about the eMac with it's problems now? Also a later generation Powerbook had horizontal lines on the screen.

Perhaps it is a Revision A assembly worker or enginneer. :eek:

thefunkymunky
May 4, 2006, 04:54 AM
Where i live, there are very few people who use Mac. Everyone has an iPod, but noone has a Mac.

Rich.

I live in Wales and I have a Mac, but no iPod. Sold it on eBay. LOL.

MIDI_EVIL
May 4, 2006, 04:59 AM
I live in Wales and I have a Mac, but no iPod. Sold it on eBay. LOL.

Fy Macintosh yn bendigedig. Ble wyt ti'n byw?

Rich.

thefunkymunky
May 4, 2006, 05:36 AM
Fy Macintosh yn bendigedig. Ble wyt ti'n byw?

Rich.

Well unfortunately I don't speak Welsh even though I live here. LOL.

I translated what you wrote and it came up with this.

"Me Macintosh crookedly wonderful. Plea you are being you ' heartburn live." :confused: :rolleyes: ;) :p

Texas04
May 4, 2006, 06:34 AM
MY MBP has a very slight whine from time to time, but nothing very serious at all. Its a 2nd generation or set out from the factory or however you want to say it,

However it does get hot to the toch, and if your wearing shorts or basketball shorts on the couch and it touches your skin... well it does feel really hot, Not comfortable at all. But with clothes on its not really that bad, it can get a lil bad but a few more papers over ur jeans on ur lap to the trick just fine.

Battery Issue: Found a slight fix. One of the PPC apps that ran in the background that i installed actually messed up my system prefrences somehow and made my perfectly good working battery die at around 2:30 hrs. I found this out because my MBP would not show 3:30 hrs with the battiers in the Apple Store computers that did. Once I "updated" (I didnt do a clean sweep) of the OS from the Installer Disk, it worked out just fine.

EDIT: (If you "update" your OS with the Installer CD some of the apps can have their fonts messed up from installing/reistalling and such)

Rocket Rion
May 4, 2006, 07:03 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)


Some users fed up with their whining Macbook Pro's are massing (http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=16296) to all call Apple's support numbers on Saturday, May 20th.


Ummm, ok if you want to stay on hold for 2 hours and prevent people with critical problems from getting through, go right ahead. It's not like Apple's going to staff up for that one day.

edited for insults

Mindcrime
May 4, 2006, 07:17 AM
All I know is that Apple Legal doesn't stand a chance against SA.com's Leonard J. Crabs. That guy has never lost a case.

technicolor
May 4, 2006, 07:45 AM
Ummm, ok if you want to stay on hold for 2 hours and prevent people with critical problems from getting through, go right ahead. It's not like Apple's going to staff up for that one day.

how are you going to tell someone that who just dropped at least 2500 dollars on a new machine?

I'm sure somebody else has already said this. But never buy first generation.. Duh... :rolleyes:If nobody buys Rev As and then none of the problems and kinks get worked out for future revolutions.

MOD EDIT: I don't think your logic is accurate

If a company releases a product it should work no matter what Rev it is.

iGary
May 4, 2006, 07:52 AM
I do hope all this gets resolved quickly for MBP owners - I feel for them (oh, God, believe me, I do).

At the end of the day, I'm glad I have the last PPC PowerBook and will have the last PPC Power Mac - in the meantime Apple can get all the bugs out and I can upgrade with revision b's or c's.

Good luck, everyone.

jameskk
May 4, 2006, 08:22 AM
I have one of the very first MBP's to be made (according to my SN). I use it several hours a day and have yet to experience any problems with it.

iGary
May 4, 2006, 08:24 AM
Ummm, ok if you want to stay on hold for 2 hours and prevent people with critical problems from getting through, go right ahead. It's not like Apple's going to staff up for that one day.

edited for insults

Oh, you'll be on hold for two hours regardless, no worries. That's normal.

mtlMacTiger
May 4, 2006, 08:41 AM
Oh man... I just ordered a MBP this Tuesday, waiting for it to ship. I've been reading about all the problems but decided to take the plunge anyways, as things seemed to have been getting better.... and I couldn't wait any longer.

Now I'm just hoping that I'm one of the lucky ones.... I'll let you all know...

anonicon
May 4, 2006, 08:49 AM
First, does anyone know what the official Apple word is on addressing this issue? Has Apple acknowledged that their technical manual for internal tech staff needs to be updated so that users who try to geth their MBP fixed don't get the PC back with the same problem?

Second, in light of the advice not to buy Revision A hardware, does anyone have a sense of how long it takes before rev. B comes out? I was looking at buying an iBook when it came out, but I'm wondering if I wouldn't be smarter to wait for rev. B 2-6 months later.

telecomm
May 4, 2006, 09:15 AM
If this bad info about the heat paste is found in an Apple service manual, then wouldn't this issue only affect those 'books that have been serviced? Why would the factory produced 'books also be affected?

netmonkey
May 4, 2006, 09:16 AM
Can't wait for Revision B...

jicon
May 4, 2006, 09:20 AM
All I know is that Apple Legal doesn't stand a chance against SA.com's Leonard J. Crabs. That guy has never lost a case.

No doubt. He tore a few companies a new one, and provided excellent counsel during LowTax's Ultimate Warrior legal issue last year.

http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2790

Interesting that the Apple lawyer doesn't bother using Apple Mail, but instead insists on using MS Entourage.

61132
May 4, 2006, 09:27 AM
Oh man... I just ordered a MBP this Tuesday, waiting for it to ship. I've been reading about all the problems but decided to take the plunge anyways, as things seemed to have been getting better.... and I couldn't wait any longer.

Now I'm just hoping that I'm one of the lucky ones.... I'll let you all know...

I just ordered mine yesterday, hopefully it won't have any of the problems, I just couldn't wait anymore to get one, lol :) Got the 15 inch one even though the 17 is cheaper, 17 is just too big to carry around for me. Upgraded everything to max except the memory, can be upgraded later for cheap.

twoodcc
May 4, 2006, 09:32 AM
well i sure that they fix these issues, and fast. i think Apple is a great company, and will do their best to fix the issues

BWhaler
May 4, 2006, 09:33 AM
Personally, I am exciting to buy the new 17", and I generally buy the latest generation once it has been announced.

But no longer. The Mac mini (Intel) had the bluetooth and wireless problems. My last gen 17" PB has an inconsistent screen--brighter, but worse than the previous revision I owned--and is poorly built. It is not a good assembly...even the Apple Genius noticed.

I don't know what the hell is going on with Apple, but someone in Vendor Management or QA or Manufacturing needs to come down harder on the Chinese companies who are doing the assembly and the Apple employees who are doing the QA.

Did they not notice the heat?
Did they not notice the crappy screens?
Did they not notice the terrible wireless access?

It's either neglect or imcompetence. And either works for Dell or HP, but Apple sells a premium product, and we pay for more.

And so, I wait to read the reviews before I buy the new 17". Sure, I am just one customer, but that's how big trends, especially company death spirals, are born.

mac-since-199o
May 4, 2006, 09:35 AM
Theres nowt wrong with mine. Maybe when it's quiet it does make a little wine, but some updates seemed of taken care of that. I never really heard the whine anyway. My workplace is noisy and I'm usually playing music on it when I'm working anyway. The nicest Pro Apple notebook I'v ever had.

screensaver400
May 4, 2006, 09:56 AM
I just got a W8615 15" MBP, and I think I might have the whine, but I'm not sure.

It's on the right side of the machine, near to the DVD drive. It sounds almost like a fan spinning (almost a grinding, but not a scary grinding), and isn't constant. I noticed it first my second day owning it, before I'd even put anything in the DVD drive. It seems to happen more when I'm making heavy use of the hard drive.

Any thoughts?

solstice
May 4, 2006, 10:15 AM
I have a MBP serial W8607 that just started having battery shutdown issues last week, so I'm glad this story was posted. It'll shut down wiithout warning at about 50% charge. Called up Apple Support and they're sending me a new battery, no problems. :)

I also have heat and whine issues when screen brightness is at anything less than max, but I'm not going to worry about those until there's an actual fix, and I don't really want to send in my Mac yet. :) Other than that, I love my MBP, no regrets at all.

MIDI_EVIL
May 4, 2006, 10:21 AM
Well unfortunately I don't speak Welsh even though I live here. LOL.

I translated what you wrote and it came up with this.

"Me Macintosh crookedly wonderful. Plea you are being you ' heartburn live." :confused: :rolleyes: ;) :p

HAHAHA. I don't speak fluently but i know basic Welsh.

I said ''My Macintosh is brilliant, Where do you live?''

Do you find us Mac Users are in limited number here in Wales?

Unless you do something with design or arts. I'm a Video artist.

Rich.

bryanw
May 4, 2006, 10:26 AM
I've been servicing Mac desktops and portables for 3 1/2 years now. I have a lot of horror stories dealing with Apple but I'll stick to the topic at hand. The photos of the thermal paste application do look a little sloppy but I've learned the hard way, Apple service manuals shouldn't always be followed to the T.

Forget about the external aesthetics of Apple products, some designs are a pain for service technicians like myself. Some designs are good/some are bad. Unfortunately, it turns out that the MacBook Pro in its first incarnation is not one of the better ones. Ironically, the MacBook Pro is the first Mac (desktop or portable) that everyone in our service department salivated for when it first showed up on our sales floor. Needless to say everyone of us now has decided to wait not for the next revision but for the next upgrade. Thus far, I personally have worked on 6 MacBook Pro's for various issues. One customer brought his in for infamous whining sounds. You can't imagine how frustrating it is for Mac service technicians such as myself, to know there's a problem but not being able to offer a solution. I spent an hour on a online chat with a Apple tech suport person before he begrudingly admitted there are problems with MacBook Pro. All he could do was offer "shot in the dark" fixes (e.g. maybe if you replace the inverter board) and say Apple is investigating these problems. In the end, I call the customer and say there is nothing I can do because a) Apple has not acknowledged the problems and b) Don't have a fix.

In a lot of ways, I believe Apple's a victim of its own success. Trekie-like Mac users clamour for upgraded computers (think Intel iBooks) and Apple rushes out unfinished product. Apple makes things worse by going into denial mode and frustrating customers' and service technicians in the process. As Mac market share increases you can expect these problems to increase along with it.

MIDI_EVIL
May 4, 2006, 10:30 AM
Apple is the new Dell.

:(

Rich.

macenforcer
May 4, 2006, 10:32 AM
Apple hardware sucks.

SiliconAddict
May 4, 2006, 10:34 AM
*knock on wood* my MacBook Pro has been pretty much flawless. The only issue I've had is in Windows on Bootcamp

Event Type: Error
Event Source: ACPIEC
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1
Date: 5/1/2006
Time: 3:53:37 PM
User: N/A
Computer: LEOPARD
Description:
\Device\ACPIEC: The embedded controller (EC) hardware didn't respond within the timeout period. This may indicate an error in the EC hardware or firmware, or possibly a poorly designed BIOS which accesses the EC in an unsafe manner. The EC driver will retry the failed transaction if possible.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 00 00 68 00 01 00 be 00 ..h...¾.
0008: 00 00 00 00 01 00 05 c0 .......À
0010: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0028: 99 9e 36 00 13 19 ff ff ™ž6...ÿÿ
0030: 73 00 06 00 13 08 12 00 s.......
0038: 83 00 4c 01 a3 08 2d 04 ƒ.L.£.-.
0040: 13 08 18 00 13 0a 1e 00 ........
0048: 33 82 06 00 15 08 0e 00 3‚......
0050: 10 08 38 00 60 00 06 00 ..8.`...
0058: 90 01 59 00 70 00 06 00 �.Y.p...
0060: 10 08 12 00 80 00 06 00 ....€...
0068: 10 08 39 00 60 00 06 00 ..9.`...
0070: 50 00 d6 00 70 00 06 00 P.Ö.p...
0078: 10 0a 12 00 80 00 0c 00 ....€...
0080: 30 83 06 00 10 18 39 00 0ƒ....9.
0088: 60 00 06 00 50 00 d7 00 `...P.×.


No one on onmac.net has seen this error which makes me wonder if I have faulty hardware. Oh and I can't get the thing to go to sleep under Windows. Or if it does it only does it once with the next try either failing or the system freezes as it tries to suspend itself. Part of me is thinking this is a problem with ACPI and USB drivers. Apple's got a ton of hardware running on the USB controller. I'm thinking the system's drivers aren't "happy" when they try to suspend. *shrugs*


All in all my MBP is a happy computer.

miketcool
May 4, 2006, 10:34 AM
Maybe it helped that I didn't freak immediately when I got my MBP 2.0, or maybe it was my lack of a car to run up to the Kenwood store....

I called Apple and we talked on the phone about 3 of my issues:
-Lousy Wireless
-Screen Flicker
-High pitched whining

They offered to have it sent in for repair or have me go to Kenwood. My laptop is my lifeline in studio so I dont have time for all that right now. I went to Kenwood about a week later, and a few days after a few updates...

The firmware update came out along with 10.4.6. My problems all got fixed with those two updates. Everything works great.

I got to the store and they checked for the sound issue and confirmed it had all been taken care of with the updates. Now my only issue is the heat, and again (being a first rev of a product) I will be patient for the official from Apple. Maybe the heat sensors aren't efficient enough, or maybe the computer is trying to conserve power in battery mode. I guarantee Apple WILL fix this.

They were more than likely working on it when that website went up to help stir people up. They dont need a thousand angry callers to fix a problem they have been working on. Were not talking data corruption here, or inoperable machines. We are talking machines that aren't as comfortable as we'd like, have some patience. There are HOTTER laptops out there on the market, believe me, I've felt them.

Sit, relax, set a Hot Buttered Tottie on your MBP case, yeah, right next to the trackpad. No need for a pandemic of panic, afterall, you could be trying to contact a PC vendor to fix any number of hardware/microshaft issues.;)

Anonymous Freak
May 4, 2006, 10:35 AM
Early Macbook Pros have been plagued with numerous issues (flickering, whining, heat).

In related news, summer 2004 1.25 Ghz eMac's (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/05/20060501155840.shtml) also seem to be having significant hardware issues.

Oh, joy... I have one of each of those. I do hear the whining, but haven't had any of the other MBP issues; and my eMac is (currently) just fine. But I think I'll call in on May 20th, just to have my voice heard. (Who knows, maybe they'll replace my MBP?)

thefunkymunky
May 4, 2006, 10:39 AM
HAHAHA. I don't speak fluently but i know basic Welsh.

I said ''My Macintosh is brilliant, Where do you live?''

Do you find us Mac Users are in limited number here in Wales?

Unless you do something with design or arts. I'm a Video artist.

Rich.

I'm in Cardiff and I know of only one other home Mac user. I use Macs for work as well though as I am a Graphic Designer.

milo
May 4, 2006, 10:45 AM
Hi,
I know that this is off topic however.
We have not heared too many issues about the intel base imacs of mac mini's.
So that is a good thing.
And as far as the 1.25 ghz emacs apple should make a repair extention on it.

The only real issues with the minis are airport and BT. I had it in for repair of the airport, now it works great.

Oh, you'll be on hold for two hours regardless, no worries. That's normal.

I guess you're calling at the wrong time. I've never been on hold more than 10 minutes or so.

ITR 81
May 4, 2006, 10:48 AM
The picture was quite clear that technicians were instructed to put a big glob of thermal grease on the heat sinks, so yes it was intentional in that respect. I don't think, however, that it was some sort of malicous thing... Someone made a HUGE engineering goof. And when I say huge, I mean HUGE.



The deep link wasn't the problem. It was what they deep linked to. Service manuals are for tech's eyes only, and not supposed to be seen by the public. I'm guessing that's especially true when they have a very big and embarassing goof-up in it.

Actually it could've been the technical writer.
Technical Writers are the ones that write the books and manuals with computers and etc..

I'm sure the Service Manual was written by a Technical Writer that just got things screwed up. (happens alot in the car industry)

The only real issues with the minis are airport and BT. I had it in for repair of the airport, now it works great.



I guess you're calling at the wrong time. I've never been on hold more than 10 minutes or so.


Wow...I've never been on hold more then 2 mins.
Had to call about my G5 when it failed to bootup...but it had something to do with the storm....but Apple still fixed it!! for FREE!:D

TWEO
May 4, 2006, 10:52 AM
...
Maybe the heat sensors aren't efficient enough, or maybe the computer is trying to conserve power in battery mode. I guarantee Apple WILL fix this.

Thermal paste was applied incorrectly. This cannot be fixed in software without any sacrifices (ie. shorter battery life or a noisier laptop).

They were more than likely working on it when that website went up to help stir people up. They dont need a thousand angry callers to fix a problem they have been working on.

Correct. What they really need is the guts to admit that they messed up and are working on a solution of some kind. But they're acting as if they don't even speak English, as if they don't understand what we are all babbling about. Maybe thousands of callers might change at least that attitude, but I'm not too optimistic about that.

Were not talking data corruption here, or inoperable machines. We are talking machines that aren't as comfortable as we'd like, have some patience. There are HOTTER laptops out there on the market, believe me, I've felt them.

You cannot say that for sure. As the temperature is related to the way the paste was applied, it can vary a lot. Maybe your MBP isn't that hot and you can live with it, that's great. But others who are less lucky are facing a machine that they cannot work with in the way they're used to.

And even worse, the electronics in their brand new machines are deteriorating in a horrible way. Cooking a silicium chip like this WILL shorten its lifetime. If Apple comes up with a software "fix" or even if they offer to replace the thermal paste in the machines, the damage has already been done. A lot of these MBP's will just cease to work a lot sooner than they should and it could cause a lot of people to be stuck with a broken laptop a short time after their warranty expired.

Sit, relax...

I am :) I fixed mine already so I have no reason to be upset ;)

ITR 81
May 4, 2006, 10:56 AM
Apple hardware sucks.

"Apple is the new Dell.



Rich."


Apple hardware...most of Apple's hardware is Intels and other manufactures HD wares..

From what I understand other folks with Dells and HP's and Sony's are having similar problems...but this is common in most new PC's I've seen...(were new tech is included)

As for folks having issues with Windows XP.....
"Welcome to MS land"

Sometimes it works and other times it fails...it's been doing this since Win95. It's gotten better over time but it still happens.

MIDI_EVIL
May 4, 2006, 11:02 AM
"Apple is the new Dell.



Rich."


Apple hardware...most of Apple's hardware is Intels and other manufactures HD wares..

From what I understand other folks with Dells and HP's and Sony's are having similar problems...but this is common in most new PC's I've seen...(were new tech is included)

As for folks having issues with Windows XP.....
"Welcome to MS land"

Sometimes it works and other times it fails...it's been doing this since Win95. It's gotten better over time but it still happens.

What i mean is, Apple are just supplying the shell, and the insides becoming problematic generic hunks of junk.

Rich.

plarusa
May 4, 2006, 11:06 AM
Oh man... I just ordered a MBP this Tuesday, waiting for it to ship. I've been reading about all the problems but decided to take the plunge anyways, as things seemed to have been getting better....
Things have been getting better in what way ? Apple did not even acknowledge the MBP problems reported in this forum and elsewhere.

Snowy_River
May 4, 2006, 11:13 AM
"I guess she didn't like the cornbread, either."

Name the movie and win... well, your own personal approval. I haven't much to offer.

Aliens. Frost talking about the fact that Riply just knocked the tray of cornbread out of Bishop's hand... Hehehe.

Play Ultimate
May 4, 2006, 11:18 AM
B. the whole thermal paste thing. So did apple by accident say put on more Paste then was needed?

The 'Tim Allen effect': more and bigger is always better.

SiliconAddict
May 4, 2006, 11:27 AM
Apple hardware sucks.

Apple generally does stuff that no one else tries. There isn't anything revolutionary in the MBP but there are enough new things under the hood that it makes purchasing a MBP a risk. Windows XP still acting funky even with Apple’s blessing is testament to this.
The reason you hardly ever see this kind of thing happen on a Dell or a Toshiba is because they are using the tried and true design that has been used for years. The result being hardware that is pretty much the same from OEM to OEM. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is more of a personal preference at the end of the day.
Do I think the MBP was rushed? Of course. Overall the hardware is solid. The biggest problem with Apple is two fold. Their insane desire to have their hardware totally silent which I’m 100% certain is the primary reason for the various failures in the past. Apple hangs RIGHT on the edge of the thermal threshold for what the components in their systems can handle. This IMHO is a severe failing in the company AFAIC. I’m noticing that with bootcamp the system stays much cooler in Windows then in OS X mainly because the fans are running pretty much nonstop keeping the system much cooler. Take that statement any way you want. I think more then anything a shift needs to occur in the thinking that fans == bad. As long as they remain quiet there is nothing wrong with a little fan action if it means keeping your system cool. Apple has to face reality. These are modern CPU’s and GPU’s they are dealing with. As such they need some TLC from their fans.
Also I just think that, similar to their OS, they don't do nearly enough QC before it ships. As for why. No idea. I have some theories centered around secrecy and cost but they are just that – theories.

SiliconAddict
May 4, 2006, 11:34 AM
As for folks having issues with Windows XP.....
"Welcome to MS land"

Sometimes it works and other times it fails...it's been doing this since Win95. It's gotten better over time but it still happens.


Bullcrap. I have 3 laptops (ThinkPad X31, Tosh Sat, Dell Latitude.) and one desktop. None of them experience the problems that I'm seeing with XP on the MBP. I'm sorry if you have had problems but I will state this as pure fact in my case: Windows XP, appropriately setup, is a solid OS.
Simply put Apple either did a crappy job on their CSM for EFI or did a crappy job on tweaking their chipset drivers for the MBP. In either case Boot Camp feels like Alpha software instead of a "beta".

slazareth
May 4, 2006, 11:36 AM
I just got a W8615 15" MBP, and I think I might have the whine, but I'm not sure.

It's on the right side of the machine, near to the DVD drive. It sounds almost like a fan spinning (almost a grinding, but not a scary grinding), and isn't constant. I noticed it first my second day owning it, before I'd even put anything in the DVD drive. It seems to happen more when I'm making heavy use of the hard drive.

Any thoughts?

congrats, you have the whine :(. get the mirror widget and do not upgrade to the latest apple keyboard update. If you do, search around and someone has uploaded a fix for it. I accidentally updated and had to go back to the old version which must be done manually.

neutrino23
May 4, 2006, 11:38 AM
The thermal paste issue is a puzzle. I don't think that applying excess paste is a huge problem. Afterall, thermal paste is an excellent heat conductor and air is not. So having a few extra blobs of paste around a chip shouldn't hurt and might even help slightly, acting like a small heat sink. The problem has to be at the interface where the two metal surfaces face each other. Regardless of how much paste is outside the chip, the important thing is that there be no air bubbles in this interface. Perhaps there was something else going on and that these bubbles got fixed when the paste was re-applied?

SiliconAddict
May 4, 2006, 11:44 AM
The thermal paste issue is a puzzle. I don't think that applying excess paste is a huge problem. Afterall, thermal paste is an excellent heat conductor and air is not. So having a few extra blobs of paste around a chip shouldn't hurt and might even help slightly, acting like a small heat sink. The problem has to be at the interface where the two metal surfaces face each other. Regardless of how much paste is outside the chip, the important thing is that there be no air bubbles in this interface. Perhaps there was something else going on and that these bubbles got fixed when the paste was re-applied?

Yes thermal paste is a conductor. But at some point with too much of the stuff it becomes counter productive. The point of thermal paste is to bridge the microgaps between the CPU and the head sink. That is all. When you start loading the stuff on in globs it still accomplishes that job but not nearly as efficiently.

TWEO
May 4, 2006, 11:45 AM
The thermal paste issue is a puzzle. I don't think that applying excess paste is a huge problem. Afterall, thermal paste is an excellent heat conductor and air is not. So having a few extra blobs of paste around a chip shouldn't hurt and might even help slightly, acting like a small heat sink. The problem has to be at the interface where the two metal surfaces face each other. Regardless of how much paste is outside the chip, the important thing is that there be no air bubbles in this interface. Perhaps there was something else going on and that these bubbles got fixed when the paste was re-applied?

Good point. There's also the problem of the paste not covering the entire surface of the chip's cores. I believe that was the issue with my MBP, but the excessive amount of paste doesn't do much good either. It sure is a better heat conductor than air, but metal is an even better conductor.

Maxx Power
May 4, 2006, 11:56 AM
I just got a W8615 15" MBP, and I think I might have the whine, but I'm not sure.

It's on the right side of the machine, near to the DVD drive. It sounds almost like a fan spinning (almost a grinding, but not a scary grinding), and isn't constant. I noticed it first my second day owning it, before I'd even put anything in the DVD drive. It seems to happen more when I'm making heavy use of the hard drive.

Any thoughts?

From what I have read, it is a whine from a transformer/inductor located in that position. It is oscillating badly to the magnetic field, typical transformer whine. You might want to do a search on it, people who have this problem have pinned it down to a few components a while back.

I've been servicing Mac desktops and portables for 3 1/2 years now. I have a lot of horror stories dealing with Apple but I'll stick to the topic at hand. The photos of the thermal paste application do look a little sloppy but I've learned the hard way, Apple service manuals shouldn't always be followed to the T.

Forget about the external aesthetics of Apple products, some designs are a pain for service technicians like myself. Some designs are good/some are bad. Unfortunately, it turns out that the MacBook Pro in its first incarnation is not one of the better ones. Ironically, the MacBook Pro is the first Mac (desktop or portable) that everyone in our service department salivated for when it first showed up on our sales floor. Needless to say everyone of us now has decided to wait not for the next revision but for the next upgrade. Thus far, I personally have worked on 6 MacBook Pro's for various issues. One customer brought his in for infamous whining sounds. You can't imagine how frustrating it is for Mac service technicians such as myself, to know there's a problem but not being able to offer a solution. I spent an hour on a online chat with a Apple tech suport person before he begrudingly admitted there are problems with MacBook Pro. All he could do was offer "shot in the dark" fixes (e.g. maybe if you replace the inverter board) and say Apple is investigating these problems. In the end, I call the customer and say there is nothing I can do because a) Apple has not acknowledged the problems and b) Don't have a fix.

In a lot of ways, I believe Apple's a victim of its own success. Trekie-like Mac users clamour for upgraded computers (think Intel iBooks) and Apple rushes out unfinished product. Apple makes things worse by going into denial mode and frustrating customers' and service technicians in the process. As Mac market share increases you can expect these problems to increase along with it.

Yep, the non-apple authorized computer repair shops are saying the same thing.

Shintocam
May 4, 2006, 12:04 PM
The thermal paste issue is a puzzle. I don't think that applying excess paste is a huge problem. Afterall, thermal paste is an excellent heat conductor and air is not. So having a few extra blobs of paste around a chip shouldn't hurt and might even help slightly, acting like a small heat sink. The problem has to be at the interface where the two metal surfaces face each other. Regardless of how much paste is outside the chip, the important thing is that there be no air bubbles in this interface. Perhaps there was something else going on and that these bubbles got fixed when the paste was re-applied?

The problem is actually that if you apply too much thermal paste it actually starts doing the opposite and almost becomes like an insulator. If you read the instructions that come with most of the pastes they are very clear that you need to apply a thin layer (often using something like the edge of a piece of paper or even a razor blade to thin out the paste). We've had several computers here at work blow a CPU because of too much paste and the processor overheating. We've also seen CPU's get very hot (without overheating) and upon taking the system apart and thining out the paste seeing the temperature drop dramatically.

quigleybc
May 4, 2006, 12:11 PM
This is why we wait till rev b ............patience is a virtue

Multimedia
May 4, 2006, 12:37 PM
Whoops! Starting The Day From Old Strings Makes Me Look Out Of It. I didn't go to the cover page today. Duh. :eek: :D

From that read, it doesn't seem like these "Issues" are much to have a cow over - for BETA TESTERS. What's a little flickering, whining noise, heat and battery failure among friends? :D

ethernet76
May 4, 2006, 12:51 PM
Love me jealous mo-fo's who don't have a MBP.

How does it feel to have a crippled machine?

Because if I got a computer that was not capable of running a graphics card at the intended speed I'd fell like I was duped.

Mackey
May 4, 2006, 01:02 PM
Bummer about the MBP problems. Iím looking to buy a 20Ē iMac soon as a living room media / DVR / web machine. From what I can see on the boards, theyíve been pretty solid. Can anyone contradict that?

Invizzible
May 4, 2006, 01:08 PM
For several years I worked for a company that makes popular electronic gear. The people in the different departments sometimes acted in an adversarial way toward each other, saying things like "I'm too busy with this new project to help you with a problem you've found in an 'about to ship product". There was also a great deal of sheep mentality there (people seeing things done wrong and not speaking up about it, or rationalizing why it was ok). A big part of why defect issues don't get resolved before a product ships is because most people working in any company are only interested in covering their own a**, instead of doing what's best for the company. They have a deadline to meet, and that's their only concern (they consider a product 'finished' even if it has defects). Here's an example of one unit: Once, we had a whole warehouse full of a brand new product, and it had a known defect. The techs were told to stop fixing them and "Just get them out of here". The guy in charge of the warehouse operations had a 'First Ship Date' deadline to meet, and no way was he gonna say to his superiors "They're not ready - we have to wait". They went out, and a ton of them came back for warranty repair. I saw this example happen with several of their products.

Does this hurt their bottom line? Who knows. Maybe the cost of fixing it and delaying the ship date is more than the cost of the warranty repairs (or at least, maybe they THINK it's more). But even if that's true, I think selling an item that is known to have defects shows a lack of integrity and
sadly, this seems to be corporate America these days. It's possible that Apple is not exempt from this way of thinking.

boncellis
May 4, 2006, 01:15 PM
I bought a G4 Powerbook in January, when the rumor mill was churning and haven't looked back. I hope the MBP problems aren't too widespread, but I love my PB so much that I can't be envious of MBP owners.

Maybe the Merom upgrade will help, isn't it supposed to run cooler than Yonah?

NewSc2
May 4, 2006, 01:26 PM
I bought a G4 Powerbook in January, when the rumor mill was churning and haven't looked back. I hope the MBP problems aren't too widespread, but I love my PB so much that I can't be envious of MBP owners.

Maybe the Merom upgrade will help, isn't it supposed to run cooler than Yonah?

Merom's supposed to run 20% faster at the same temperature.

bordenkecher
May 4, 2006, 01:42 PM
[QUOTE= MOD EDIT: user exlaims his distaste for Apple (using some profanity)... [/QUOTE]
so i cant say the B* word or the dam* word... its allowed on cable but not in forums... ok. i really dont care, just thought it was interesting :)

Garissimo
May 4, 2006, 01:42 PM
I bought a G4 Powerbook in January, when the rumor mill was churning and haven't looked back. I hope the MBP problems aren't too widespread, but I love my PB so much that I can't be envious of MBP owners.

Maybe the Merom upgrade will help, isn't it supposed to run cooler than Yonah?

I bought the last rev. of the 12" Powerbook G4 and am a happy camper too. The thing is rock solid only gets toasty hot if I inadvertently block the vent on the left side (which I was doing by accident at first because I'm a lefty).

I really hope Apple fixes the noise and heat issues with Rev. B of the MacBook pro. Perhaps this is why the smaller form factor MacBook is delayed?

As far as Merom, it should indeed use less power at the same speeds the Yonah chip runs at.

I guess we'll have to see what "flavors" Intel makes available for Apple.

w8ing4intelmacs
May 4, 2006, 02:11 PM
I have a W8608... MBP, and I love it . No problems. (Although I'm hoping for a free extra battery in the mail soon).

I converted a DVD VIDEO_TS file to MP4 using handbrake. Just to test, I did the exact conversion on my MBP 15" 1.83 with 1.5GB RAM and my wife's PB G5 1.5 with 1.25GB RAM.

MBP: 19min 5sec
PB: 1hr 03min 12sec

I guess not quite 4x but I'll take it
:) :rolleyes: :D ;) :p

steveh
May 4, 2006, 02:22 PM
This is such @!#$%!. Apple really needs to get their head out of their a$$ on this one, suing for a link??

It wasn't for the link per se, it seems to be for acquiring and publishing in part an Apple internal document.

Which would be a pretty common response by a company for doing something like that.

If the guy in question has written up his own procedure as a clean-room fix, there wouldn't have been a problem.

SiliconAddict
May 4, 2006, 02:23 PM
I have a W8608... MBP, and I love it . No problems. (Although I'm hoping for a free extra battery in the mail soon).

I converted a DVD VIDEO_TS file to MP4 using handbrake. Just to test, I did the exact conversion on my MBP 15" 1.83 with 1.5GB RAM and my wife's PB G5 1.5 with 1.25GB RAM.

MBP: 19min 5sec
PB: 1hr 03min 12sec

I guess not quite 4x but I'll take it
:) :rolleyes: :D ;) :p

BAH! Standard MP4 is SOOOOO last year's codec. Itís all about the H.264 baby. I ripped all my Pixar, Pixar shorts, and Disney movies to H.264 the day I got my MBP. It helped that I had one of http://www.circuitcity.com/IMAGE/product/detail/ane/PC.ANE.75005.jpg under my laptop though. The sucker gets REALLY REALLY hot. I was starting to worry that my MBP was going to ignite the Earth's atmosphere and kill us all but then handbrake finished and life was good again,

morespce54
May 4, 2006, 02:30 PM
Apple's early adopters should not need to be referred to as "beta testers". When the thing is on the retail shelf, the time for beta testing and quality control is done. And I haven't spent ANY money on Firefox, Gmail, Adium, or any other "beta" product I've used. This is a RETAIL version of a flagship product that has the potential to be a true switcher computer.

I'm 100% with you.
I always knew it was "risky" to get a Rev A. but still, that should not be the case...

Surreal
May 4, 2006, 02:37 PM
How does it feel to have a crippled machine?
Because if I got a computer that was not capable of running a graphics card at the intended speed I'd fell like I was duped.

that doesnt bother me much, the only part that does is that i can't turn it up sometimes (i am only going to play games maybe 1 or 2 a month and nothing too intense anyway. and that isnt even such a bother.

SiliconAddict
May 4, 2006, 02:59 PM
that doesnt bother me much, the only part that does is that i can't turn it up sometimes (i am only going to play games maybe 1 or 2 a month and nothing too intense anyway. and that isnt even such a bother.


The funny thing is you can on Windows. I was using ATI Tool Beta over the weekend to tweak the GPU so Civ IV ran a little more smoothly. Once I was done gaming I rebooted and went back into OS X. Slick as heck. For most people the current GPU speed is fast enough for most things and since Windows has the lions share of gaming titles. Sort of works out i the end. :D

Stridder44
May 4, 2006, 03:08 PM
Merom's supposed to run 20% faster at the same temperature.


Reason #46 to wait

/I heart rev. B's
//or C's

Stridder44
May 4, 2006, 03:12 PM
...and my wife's PB G5 1.5 with 1.25GB RAM....




omg THE SECRETS OUT!!! PB G5'S NEXT TUESDAY!!!1!11111

morespce54
May 4, 2006, 03:24 PM
Bummer about the MBP problems. Iím looking to buy a 20Ē iMac soon as a living room media / DVR / web machine. From what I can see on the boards, theyíve been pretty solid. Can anyone contradict that?

never (ever) had a problem with mine :o ;) :)
(crossing fingers...)

spartak
May 4, 2006, 03:38 PM
Yes thermal paste is a conductor. But at some point with too much of the stuff it becomes counter productive. The point of thermal paste is to bridge the microgaps between the CPU and the head sink. That is all. When you start loading the stuff on in globs it still accomplishes that job but not nearly as efficiently.

No that's not the problem. The thermalpaste gets smeared onto the motherboard, and conducts (leaks) the heat towards the shell where it would otherwise have been dissipated fully from the heatpipe/sink to the fan into the air.
So it's not the chip itself that gets less hot when the thermal paste is applied correctly, like has been stated a bit incorrect by MacRumors, but the leakage that is decreased from the processor to the outer shell.

spartak
May 4, 2006, 03:40 PM
Early Macbook Pros have been plagued with numerous issues (flickering, whining, heat). Recently, users at SomethingAwful.com posted a link to an Apple Service Manual that showed that Apple was instructing its service technicians to misapply thermal grease on heatsinks. Indeed, the user reported that opening up the Macbook and re-applying the proper amount of thermal grease resulted in a dramatic drop in surface temperature. Webmasters at the site were subsequently met with a cease and desist order for linking to the service manual.


T,FTFY

nuclearwinter
May 4, 2006, 04:14 PM
so, is it right to understand that the only solution to my overheating issues on my mbp is to open it myself and re-app everything... has anyone tried to send their mbp back to apple to get it fixed?


MOD EDIT: user exlaims his distaste for Apple (using some profanity)...


I called Apple on Monday, May 1, and told them about my problem with overheating (at which point the computer would stop operating) and the battery problem (it wouldn't take over when the computer was unplugged). Ah yes, there was also the whine that got really loud right before it overheated and quit. Anyway, Apple almost immediately offered to completely replace my MBP, even though it was long past the 14 day period. I was shocked. I expected to fight them on the issue until they offered to simply repair it. They didn't even offer to repair it. I asked about a repair and the specialist said that wasn't what he would do.

TTW
May 4, 2006, 04:15 PM
Invizzible I liked your inside point-of-view. It's right on the money. However, I'd like to add that Apple if DEFINITELY not different in this aspect...not completely.

I've never seen a publicly traded entity that put what's best for the customer before what's best for the company (profitable). I've seen plenty of small and large privately held companies stand by the customer, though.

However, it's not that those other companies are always so righteous. In many cases they simply don't create pressure to meet certain performance levels. Where there is no pressure, there is no large reason to screw the customer. Sometimes this is simply because product profit margins are better or competition is light.

My point is that if you take an honest company in America and put it in a bad way financially, or make the sales people compete, or just put pressure on everyone to "win, win, win", you'll have a company that's anti-customer and only pro-profit. You'll have Enron.

lewchenko
May 4, 2006, 04:19 PM
Im one of the ones who is (perhaps now was) considering to get a macbook (ibook) when it comes out. The money is ready and waiting etc..

now Im not so sure...

It will be a REV A. I will be a beta tester. They will try and cram a core duo processor into a smaller form factor than the MBpro and there will be heat issues. It will probably 'whine'. The case will probably burn my fingers...!!

I wish the above paragraph was worlds apart from reality, but it probably wont be, and the last thing I want is to be like one of the MBpro people... writing on this forum about how Apple has ripped them off etc....

I shouldnt say this but Im now looking at a PC laptop too. A Sony ZX1 derivative. Its more expensive, but I guess you gets what you pays for...

milo
May 4, 2006, 04:27 PM
Im one of the ones who is (perhaps now was) considering to get a macbook (ibook) when it comes out. The money is ready and waiting etc..

now Im not so sure...

It will be a REV A. I will be a beta tester. They will try and cram a core duo processor into a smaller form factor than the MBpro and there will be heat issues. It will probably 'whine'. The case will probably burn my fingers...!!


If it makes you feel any better, the 17's should be arriving in people's hands any day now (any reports of people receiving them yet?). If none of the probelms are solved, it doesn't bode well. If the heat and noise issues are completely fixed on the 17, there may be hope for the 13 as well.

Stridder44
May 4, 2006, 04:32 PM
I called Apple on Monday, May 1, and told them about my problem with overheating (at which point the computer would stop operating) and the battery problem (it wouldn't take over when the computer was unplugged). Ah yes, there was also the whine that got really loud right before it overheated and quit. Anyway, Apple almost immediately offered to completely replace my MBP, even though it was long past the 14 day period. I was shocked. I expected to fight them on the issue until they offered to simply repair it. They didn't even offer to repair it. I asked about a repair and the specialist said that wasn't what he would do.


Wow. thats awesome to hear!

ArcaneDevice
May 4, 2006, 04:35 PM
I've been servicing Mac desktops and portables for 3 1/2 years now. I have a lot of horror stories dealing with Apple but I'll stick to the topic at hand. The photos of the thermal paste application do look a little sloppy but I've learned the hard way, Apple service manuals shouldn't always be followed to the T.


This is what I was wondering. Those photos make it look like they are making baked alaska with a processor, did a technician look at the manual and think "this can't be right" and then point it out to someone? Surely someone on the assembly line must be familiar with thermal paste?

Multimedia
May 4, 2006, 04:49 PM
Regarding Post #110 on page 5:
I have a W8608... MBP, and I love it . No problems. (Although I'm hoping for a free extra battery in the mail soon).

I converted a DVD VIDEO_TS file to MP4 using handbrake. Just to test, I did the exact conversion on my MBP 15" 1.83 with 1.5GB RAM and my wife's PB G5 1.5 with 1.25GB RAM.

MBP: 19min 5sec
PB: 1hr 03min 12sec

I guess not quite 4x but I'll take it
:) :rolleyes: :D ;) :pHow long is the original encoded video?

aafuss1
May 4, 2006, 05:01 PM
Apple's security for service manuals (in downloads.info.apple.com) is very easy to be misused-as the directory and server uses Apache, and can be viewed by someone like SomethingAwful with ?M=D.

So Apple should move to a secure system-that requires a separate login-like Sony ESI requires:
https://service-asc.sel.sony.com/SonyESI/SearchDoc.asp
(Just an example of of a more secure system-I have a Sony login, so I can view their Vaio manuals,for example)
Has anyone seen Pechorin.com-a good example of people posting illegal logins to Sony, Canon, Sharp ASC sites.

By using a technician-specific login for GSX, Apple could control who can access the manuals-instead of the Apple ID, which can be easily registered by anyone.

Multimedia
May 4, 2006, 05:07 PM
BAH! Standard MP4 is SOOOOO last year's codec. Itís all about the H.264 baby. I ripped all my Pixar, Pixar shorts, and Disney movies to H.264 the day I got my MBP. It helped that I had one of http://www.circuitcity.com/IMAGE/product/detail/ane/PC.ANE.75005.jpg under my laptop though. The sucker gets REALLY REALLY hot. I was starting to worry that my MBP was going to ignite the Earth's atmosphere and kill us all but then handbrake finished and life was good again,I Disagree. H.264 is not good because it limits your iPod compatible dimensions to 320x240 which is not good for TV display from your iPod's output. :)

Snide
May 4, 2006, 05:11 PM
As an Apple qualified tech I can say that the pics in this takeapart are not a new thing.

Thermal grease has been applied to a lot of mac products, and in most cases the pics are like that - imac g5's, imac g4's, pbs

ok some have thermal pads, but this so-called misapplication is not new.


Hmmm, this rings a bell! A couple months ago I upgraded a friend's 2003
1 Ghz iMac G4 17" with a 250 GB Seagate (replacing the 80 GB) and a 1 GB
stick of RAM. For reference, I used the official factory service manual,
paying particular attention to the amount of thermal paste used on the 2
mating surfaces. The amount of paste shown was about the size of a small
pea. So you can imagine that I was astounded when I pulled it apart
and saw the huge mess of paste on both sides of the heat pipe! I would
guess that the amount was akin to a piece of chewing gum on each surface.

This iMac had been serviced for a defective optical drive under warranty
when it was several months old, so it is clear that the paste was added
at that time. But the manual shows a much, much smaller amount!

In any event, the iMac has run without issues for at least 2 1/2 years,
so perhaps it wasn't too big a deal in this case. But still...

milo
May 4, 2006, 05:52 PM
I Disagree. H.264 is not good because it limits your iPod compatible dimensions to 320x240 which is not good for TV display from your iPod's output. :)

What resolutions can the iPod handle with mpeg?

w8ing4intelmacs
May 4, 2006, 05:53 PM
How much faster than your wife's computer is NOT RELEVANT to your report. What is important is HOW LONG IS THE ORIGINAL VIDEO.

How long was THE CONVERTED VIDEO - minutes seconds - to give us an idea of what fraction of real time the Handbrake rip took please. This is extremely important to me.

Then you should ask nicer. Sheesh.

Multimedia
May 4, 2006, 06:04 PM
What resolutions can the iPod handle with mpeg?up to 544 x 408 or 640 x 360 or 230,400 pixels max.

Multimedia
May 4, 2006, 06:07 PM
Then you should ask nicer. Sheesh.Regarding Post #110 on page 5:
Cleaned up Post #127.
How long is the original posted video? Also What Bit Rate and did you do a 2-pass encode both ways or 1-pass?

whee900
May 4, 2006, 06:19 PM
Rev. As are risky to buy... But Apple isn't reacting as they usually do. They're not even acknowledging that there is a problem. Normally, they'll just fix it. What's up with them this time around? I mean, it wouldn't be that expensive for them to fix it. It's just thermal grease; they can probably fix each faulty unit in around 5 minutes tops. It can't be that much of a hassle to repair these things.

61132
May 4, 2006, 06:48 PM
Just received my second power adapter, and a dvi to s-video adapter, can't wait till the MBP gets here! Hopefully I will be problem free

blueimac'00
May 4, 2006, 07:03 PM
If i paid that much money for a MBP there had better be no problems.

w8ing4intelmacs
May 4, 2006, 07:17 PM
Regarding Post #110 on page 5:
So because you perceive my request as rude you are not going to tell us? How about PLEASE? You are witholding the most important test result spec since the MBP was released and you are going to have a hissy fit over how I complained you didn't tell us?

How do you expcect any of us to know what you are reporting about if you do not report the length of the original video file? Encoding with Handbrake is all about at what fraction of the video's length. Also What Bit Rate and did you do a 2-pass encode both ways or 1-pass?

Not exactly what I call nice. I guess that's what the world has come to.
:p :D

... You are witholding the most important test result spec since the MBP was released ...

Although, I have to admit, that this quote makes me feel pretty special.

Surreal
May 4, 2006, 07:58 PM
Not exactly what I call nice. I guess that's what the world has come to.
:p :D


the internet killed inflection.

Multimedia
May 4, 2006, 08:32 PM
Not exactly what I call nice. I guess that's what the world has come to.Removed all rudely interpreted wording. Thank you for your consideration.

Invizzible
May 4, 2006, 09:23 PM
My point is that if you take an honest company in America and put it in a bad way financially, or make the sales people compete, or just put pressure on everyone to "win, win, win", you'll have a company that's anti-customer and only pro-profit. You'll have Enron.

I'm sure that you're right - most people/companies would do the same thing in the same situation. Problem is, that doesn't change the fact that these actions represent a sacrifice of integrity. Ironic that when we're kids and we do something wrong and say we did it because a friend also did it, we're told "If Billy jumped off a bridge, would you do that too??" And then we grow up and realize that the adult world rationalizes doing bad stuff for that very same reason!

I have to wonder, if companies would correct known defects before shipping products, could they end up making more money than by cutting corners and shipping too soon? They'd pay less for warranty repairs, and they'd get a better reputation. Imagine if, on this thread, people were able to boast "Apple is the only computer company with which you never have to worry about the reliability of a rev. A product".

Sometimes I think we get brainwashed into thinking something is acceptable, just because it's common, when it's actually pretty outrageous (i.e., all of Window's security holes).

MBPmad
May 4, 2006, 09:38 PM
Hi there.

I removed the battery and run the MBP just with the power adapter. The whine disappears, although sometimes it comes back, but just for a short while.

Can anybody try this as well? Please let me know how it goes

-MBPmad

Multimedia
May 4, 2006, 10:34 PM
I removed the battery and run the MBP just with the power adapter. The whine disappears, although sometimes it comes back, but just for a short while.

Can anybody try this as well? Please let me know how it goes.Removing The Battery Is A Nice Workaround But Not The Way They're Supposed To Be. I am starting to think Apple designed the MBP's cooling system for Merom, thinking Yonah wouldn't be too much hotter. :eek: Oops!

I guess it's boom time for various cooling pads from third parties.

Sure makes me more patient to wait for a Merom 17" model.

Brother Michael
May 4, 2006, 10:50 PM
SomethingAwful.com

Best site EVER.

Also this is not the first time they have been threatened with legal action, but probably a little more serious than the others.

jaydub
May 4, 2006, 11:02 PM
Not really very important, but I went to the Apple store here in Vegas today and talked to the manager about my upcoming MBP purchase. He was aware of the chatter on the internet about the thermal paste, etc and gave me what he called "the apple answer" which was if I felt like I had a computer with a problem, by all means bring it in and they'll get it taken care of.

I also felt the bottoms of all the MPB's they had (which were week 06 if I was reading the serial numbers right) and they were all warm to the touch on the bottom, but not scalding or anything. I thought that was pretty good for machines which obviously run all day long.:)

milatchi
May 4, 2006, 11:59 PM
A friend of mine got his MacBook Pro about a month ago. He has been lucky enough so far not to have any issues with it.

Rod76
May 5, 2006, 01:21 AM
I've been lurking in these forums for the past 3 years and finally decided it was time to put in my 2 cents.

I just bought my 15 MacBook Pro about 3 weeks ago, I was a bit stupid and bought Apple (Samsung) Ram, but after hearing how some had stripped out their screws trying to access the panel I said why not. Outside of that one caveat this machine was one of the smartest buys I've made in a long time. I've heard the "Beta Tester" comment and for the life of me just don't get it. When you have a product you will inherently have batches or instances where defects enter. Just like most car manufactures a Computer is the sum of many parts from many vendors. In the end you will always have specific issues because of this, not to put down those who are experiencing these issues, nonetheless its not fair/reasonable to say that those who buy the "cutting edge" Apple products are making a mistake. This MacBook Pro is my third revision 1 product from Apple and like the rest has absolutely no problems. This MacBook Pro 2.16 Ghz model exhibits no Whining screen/CPU, no issues with the LCD, or more importantly excessive heat. I would say it doesn't get any hotter than the 1.2 Ghz iBook it replaced. This machine for the most part puts out no sound whatsoever and unless I'm showing off how many FPS this bad boy gets in WOW (I don't play it, my brothers do, and I had to show off) the fans never come on. I do understand the plight of those with issues, the MacBook Pro isn't cheap and Apple should respect the investment of their Customers and make reparations where necessary.

Rod...

pudrik
May 5, 2006, 02:37 AM
I just got a W8615 15" MBP, and I think I might have the whine, but I'm not sure.

It's on the right side of the machine, near to the DVD drive. It sounds almost like a fan spinning (almost a grinding, but not a scary grinding), and isn't constant. I noticed it first my second day owning it, before I'd even put anything in the DVD drive. It seems to happen more when I'm making heavy use of the hard drive.

Any thoughts?

Same thing on mine. Like a chatter. Perhaps a fan that rubs when it spins slowly?

expatinasia
May 5, 2006, 04:21 AM
Jaydub,
You wrote "One thing that is unclear -- was apple instructing their technicians to purposely misapply the thermal grease?" Why would Apple do that? You've probably heard that "there's no such thing as a stupid question". That's not true, and you've proved it. Too, there's a difference between a "Service Manual" and a "Manufacturing Instruction". The problem that people are seeing is related to the manufacturing, not service, process.

herrmill
May 5, 2006, 04:32 AM
I have now been using my 2.0gz MBP (W8610) constantly since having to make an emergency purchase six weeks ago after dropping my 1.25gz G4 PB & totalling the display while on a business trip to the States. Since I live in Shanghai & travel all over China in my business, I need a dependable & secure computer which is why I use a Mac.

I can't say enough about how great this machine is - and yes, everyone, it still is nothing more than a machine for me to get my work done & communicate with the rest of the world. I have no complaints on what I was fortunate enough to buy, & I typically put 10-12 hours each day on it. It's quiet, runs MUCH faster than my 3-year old PB & doesn't get my lap any hotter than if a 20-year old ktv girl would be sitting on it! :p

BTW, that PB that I left behind for my brother to get fixed had at least 9,000 hours of use & never let me down. He's since replaced the display for $800 & sent back his new Dell after having a chance to play with it.

zoltamatron
May 5, 2006, 05:15 AM
I have to say that after hearing a lot about these whine problems, I really think that this is a problem with the core duo processor and not necessarily with the apple design. All the stories about how processor load plays a big role in the tone of the whine seems to really point to the cpu being the culprit. The core processors have fancy new power management that turns off portions of the chip when not used, so when the cpu is idle it is probably turning these portions on and off at audible frequencies. Somehow that EM interference is probably vibrating something (perhaps the shiny metal case of the MBP?) and causing these whining sounds. I'll bet this is not going to be an easy fix for apple, or intel. My guess is that apple is not being so responsive as of yet because they are waiting for intel's position on the subject, and don't really know how to fix it.

TBi
May 5, 2006, 06:48 AM
No matter what it is apple should be doing their best to fix this issue. I never knew it was so annoying until i got to hear it myself. If they had speedstep enabled then more than likely we wouldn't have this issue. I'm going to install Windows XP with the speed step driver on my new MBP tonight and watch for the frequency changes with CPU-Z. I don't know how to monitor current frequency in OSX but i'm guessing that speedstep isn't enabled.

Hopefully the OSX driver for speedstep is undergoing quality testing at the moment and will be released soon.

ManchesterTrix
May 5, 2006, 07:02 AM
I have to say that after hearing a lot about these whine problems, I really think that this is a problem with the core duo processor and not necessarily with the apple design. All the stories about how processor load plays a big role in the tone of the whine seems to really point to the cpu being the culprit. The core processors have fancy new power management that turns off portions of the chip when not used, so when the cpu is idle it is probably turning these portions on and off at audible frequencies. Somehow that EM interference is probably vibrating something (perhaps the shiny metal case of the MBP?) and causing these whining sounds. I'll bet this is not going to be an easy fix for apple, or intel. My guess is that apple is not being so responsive as of yet because they are waiting for intel's position on the subject, and don't really know how to fix it.

The only problem with this posit is that the whine is not there when running WinXP on a MacBook Pro.

iGary
May 5, 2006, 07:38 AM
No matter what it is apple should be doing their best to fix this issue. I never knew it was so annoying until i got to hear it myself. If they had speedstep enabled then more than likely we wouldn't have this issue. I'm going to install Windows XP with the speed step driver on my new MBP tonight and watch for the frequency changes with CPU-Z. I don't know how to monitor current frequency in OSX but i'm guessing that speedstep isn't enabled.

Hopefully the OSX driver for speedstep is undergoing quality testing at the moment and will be released soon.

I doubt they are sitting on their ass. Apple is infamous for denying a problem until they have a reasonable fix, and telling their tech people to resist returns until the customer pushes. In fact most companies operate that way.

Not that it is right, but....

Surreal
May 5, 2006, 08:03 AM
I doubt they are sitting on their ass. Apple is infamous for denying a problem until they have a reasonable fix, and telling their tech people to resist returns until the customer pushes. In fact most companies operate that way.

Not that it is right, but....

yeah, that is my position. it happens sometimes and they MUST be working on a fix. i just hope there is a fix and that they release it within a month or so. i think energy saver should return. that could address a few complaints at the same time. (GPU, whine, heat, fans, etc.)

iGary
May 5, 2006, 08:04 AM
yeah, that is my position. it happens sometimes and they MUST be working on a fix. i just hope there is a fix and that they release it within a month or so. i think energy saver should return. that could address a few complaints at the same time. (GPU, whine, heat, fans, etc.)

So there is no processor setting with the MBP's?

tiramisu
May 5, 2006, 08:10 AM
does anybody know? or have only the first revision of the 15" problems with heat? i wounder to wait for second revision, which is not natuarally better than one.

damn, and what about merom in august? :rolleyes:

SiliconAddict
May 5, 2006, 08:14 AM
Best site EVER.

Also this is not the first time they have been threatened with legal action, but probably a little more serious than the others.

Yah for morons. The entire place is dedicated to hate in one form or another. And every 6 months or so you get proof of this

http://www.tech-recipes.com/blog214.php

The basic gist of it is that someone went on the forums asking what type of ammo to use in his shotgun. A few days later he goes on a killing spree and then kills himself. This is not the only example. The maturity level on SA is somewhere between 5 year old and teenager. I know web sites that have been defaced by people claiming to be associated to SA. They love to pick on a certain subculture to the point of borderline violence. The entire site has perpetuated the idea that its cool to spread hate in one form or another towards said subculture. To the extent that they have no issues about showing up at conventions and harassing people IRL. SA is a blot on the face of the internet that needs to be erased.
Mods: Feel free to remove this since it isnít relevant to the topic but I really needed to respond to this.

ALoveSupreme
May 5, 2006, 08:41 AM
The only problem with this posit is that the whine is not there when running WinXP on a MacBook Pro.

Thats because the power management features that are integrated into Mac Os X are a lot better than those in Windows XP.

A friend of mine has an ASUS Centrino Notebook with a Pentium M at 1.7 Ghz. When using the laptop just with XP there are no whines , and no screen flickering.

But if you turn on a little power saving utility by ASUS called Power4Gear, and set it to save as much energy as possible. Suddenly even this Pentium M laptop starts to whine exactly as the MBP. (And yes, it is the exact same whine, I own a MBP... ;) ) And even the screen flickering starts.

My theory from the very beginning has been, that it is not Apple's fault, but that these symptoms occur on every Centrino Notebook wether it has a Pentium M, a Core Solo or a Core Duo.

It must have something to do with the power saving functions of the Pentium M architecture based chips.

So to all people still complaining about the whine :

Blame Intel and don't buy a MBP or just accept the fact that your computer does make some noises, and enjoy this beautiful, extremly fast laptop...

I do... :D

TBi
May 5, 2006, 08:51 AM
I doubt they are sitting on their ass. Apple is infamous for denying a problem until they have a reasonable fix, and telling their tech people to resist returns until the customer pushes. In fact most companies operate that way.

Not that it is right, but....

I know they probably aren't. Especially with such a back lash against them. I'm just miffed that i have this problem with a laptop i spent so much money on but then again I really should have waited.

They probably just haven't got the speedstep driver working under OSX yet. Hopefully they will soon because that should bring the heat down a notch and extend the battery life while making the whole thing quieter. I'm worried about using the machine closed with an external monitor because the thing is so hot.

I'll probably return it anyway and buy one if and when they fix it. It will be my way of saying "Please fix this or else you lose money". Although if the macbooks come out soon then i might get one of those instead plus an iMac like i'd originally intended.

On a different note, mine mooed last night. It's definately the fan kicking in for a second, quite a weird sound though. I've always wondered where the MBP actually takes air in from. I'm guessing through the speaker vents or the keyboard.

ManchesterTrix
May 5, 2006, 08:58 AM
I have had half a dozen Centrino notebooks and have another 2 dozen out in the wild and have never had anything close to a whine let alone screen flickering, even with 3rd party power management. I'm pretty sure the whine is related to whatever is causing heat issues(With the thermal paste being a possible culprit). We have 6 MacBook Pros, Mine is the only one exhibiting the whine and it is also the only one with temperature problems. My case gets over 57 degrees C in some spots where the others don't even get to 40.

So, if excess thermal paste is causing improper heat distribution, it could very well be causing problems with the sensors and thus wreaking havoc with the Power Management.

Surreal
May 5, 2006, 08:59 AM
So there is no processor setting with the MBP's?

that is quite correct, sir, there are no energy saver options with regard to the processor. it has somethign to do with the fact that the core duo has energy saving stuff built in that is supposed to be more effective than picking manually. this COULD be true, but if giving me manual options could rid us of the whine...

Surreal
May 5, 2006, 09:03 AM
We have 6 MacBook Pros, Mine is the only one exhibiting the whine and it is also the only one with temperature problems. My case gets over 57 degrees C in some spots where the others don't even get to 40.


wait, 1 out of the 6?

that is still a bad ratio, but that may be why they havent been public with it. if it isnt more than a quarter, they may hope to replace the whiners until a real fix is found.

besides all of that, knowing that not all macbooks are affected puts me at ease slightly.

jaydub
May 5, 2006, 09:14 AM
Jaydub,
You wrote "One thing that is unclear -- was apple instructing their technicians to purposely misapply the thermal grease?" Why would Apple do that? You've probably heard that "there's no such thing as a stupid question". That's not true, and you've proved it. Too, there's a difference between a "Service Manual" and a "Manufacturing Instruction". The problem that people are seeing is related to the manufacturing, not service, process.Thanks for reading the topic, this has been covered numerous times already and I was referring to THE WAY IT WAS PRESENTED. Get a clue.

neoelectronaut
May 5, 2006, 11:27 AM
Well, my sister IMed me last night saying that she hears a noise from her recently-purchased Macbook, she refers to as beeping, but it's obviously the whine.

So, we'll be returning it to CompUSA this weekend, and I'm going to head into the laptop lockup and look at what we have in stock--picking up the one with the highest serial number so it'd be the most recent. Hopefully it'll help our chances with avoiding another dud.

Anyone know where I can get a form to transfer Applecare to a new computer?

aristobrat
May 5, 2006, 11:55 AM
So, we'll be returning it to CompUSA this weekend, and I'm going to head into the laptop lockup and look at what we have in stock--picking up the one with the highest serial number so it'd be the most recent.
Hopefully you'll have better luck than I did.

I exchanged a W8611 (hoping to get one with less of a processor whine) for a W8614.

The Week 14 machine turned out to have the same processor whine PLUS the LCD buzz, which the Week 11 machine didn't have.

Ugh.

neoelectronaut
May 5, 2006, 12:02 PM
Hopefully you'll have better luck than I did.

I exchanged a W8611 (hoping to get one with less of a processor whine) for a W8614.

The Week 14 machine turned out to have the same processor whine PLUS the LCD buzz, which the Week 11 machine didn't have.

Ugh.

She's currently using a W8610...how far to date have they gotten?

Koodauw
May 5, 2006, 10:51 PM
Well my battery just crapped out on my today, it shuts off at about 40%, turns off cold. Then when you boot back up again, (now using the ac power.) It says you have 40% remaining. They had me reset the PMU, but that didnt work, so I should be getting a new battery in the next couple of days.

conditionals
May 5, 2006, 11:24 PM
Well my battery just crapped out on my today, it shuts off at about 40%, turns off cold. Then when you boot back up again, (now using the ac power.) It says you have 40% remaining. They had me reset the PMU, but that didnt work, so I should be getting a new battery in the next couple of days.

Man, you're so not "Lovin my MBP."

Silicon Jedi
May 6, 2006, 06:57 PM
They love to pick on a certain subculture to the point of borderline violence. The entire site has perpetuated the idea that its cool to spread hate in one form or another towards said subculture. To the extent that they have no issues about showing up at conventions and harassing people IRL.

So this tells me that you are a [Deleted].

*shudder*

I edited this because well, I've made to posts and both have been kinda borderline flamebait.

The [deleted] community are creepy and weird. Trust me, I've met, talked, looked into them. They thrive with the internet which by the same horrible force that allows a maximal conecntration of sick twisted 14-yr-old mentality goons at SA congregate.

Leoff
May 6, 2006, 10:34 PM
Basically any negative comments in here boil down to one of Three classifications:

1) "My Mac isn't perfect and I'm gonna whine about it." Seriously, most of the people who are complaining about excess heat, a whine, etc., are taking small, average, everyday computer laptop quirks and emphasizing them for effect. They probably wouldn't even notice such things if they weren't reading these forums. A very small percentage of actual owners probably has a legitimate complaint. Either that, or some people have unreasonable expectations from Apple about it's products. I mean, come on... NO computer is going to be able to do what you want. Don't expect Apple to be perfect, just better.

2) "Apple's quality control sucks." No, their quality control doesn't suck, it's no better or worse than any other companies. Most of the documented problems that have arisen have been from the Rev A releases. Historically, Rev A and B releases of ANYTHING are going to have larger than average quality control issues. They're working on solving them, just as any other computer company would do.

Apple releases a computer. It gets rave reviews. They release another. More rave reviews. Another and another... nothing but positives. Then they release something and there are an abnormal amount of problems with it. Suddenly the company's entire history of product releases is nit-picked to death and Apple has the worst quality control ever? yeah, right...

3) "Apple's Hardware Sucks." Well, that's just simple bias against Apple. Most that answer in such a way will say they've had bad experiences with Apple's computers, software, etc., but chances are they've never even TOUCHED one. They're posting because they think they're funny, they're trying to get a rise out of people, etc.

neoelectronaut
May 6, 2006, 10:58 PM
So my sister's home for the weekend, and she told me.

"It started again."

So I go into the room, hear nothing. She asks:

"Don't you hear it?"

"No."

"Hold your ear close."

So I do.

...it's this tiny, staticy, crackling noise.

..."You're being nitpicky. It sounds like basic background computer noise to me."

...this can't be the same whine, can it?

mjstew33
May 6, 2006, 11:10 PM
Probably not, I mean, she's probably just being picky as she doesn't want any noise from her $3000 notebook. ;)

aristobrat
May 7, 2006, 10:35 AM
Probably not, I mean, she's probably just being picky as she doesn't want any noise from her $3000 notebook. ;)
My last high-end Apple notebook (15" G4 PowerBook) made zero weird sounds (fans don't count). Neither have any of my work notebooks (Thinkpads, T23, T42, and now T62). Is it *really* being picky to expect a notebook that doesn't make irritating whines?

Surreal
May 7, 2006, 11:09 AM
My last high-end Apple notebook (15" G4 PowerBook) made zero sounds. Neither have any of my work notebooks (Thinkpads, T23, T42, and now T62). Is it *really* being picky to expect a notebook that doesn't make irritating whines?

no fans?

i think the "staticy" sounds he is refering to is processor noises and such. you know when you use a really old computer and you hear it think? i would only expect that that is quieter in newer computers. not gone.

aristobrat
May 7, 2006, 11:27 AM
no fans?

i think the "staticy" sounds he is refering to is processor noises and such. you know when you use a really old computer and you hear it think? i would only expect that that is quieter in newer computers. not gone.
Sorry, I didn't mean to exclude fan noise. :)

I'm talking about the LCD screen buzz (which thankfully does have a fix) and the processor whine. Add to that the fact that people who disassemble their MBP and fix the thermal goo issue have cooler MBPs, .. the whole thing just makes me cranky.

I wish I could take everyone who thinks that they have a non-whiney MBP into some of the dead-quiet conference rooms where I work. With zero background noise, every MBP I've heard is irritating. Fortunately for most, they rarely work in those types of environments, which leaves the problem to us picky people who hate Apple's hardware and quality control. Honestly, if Apple would say anything about the fact that they're working on solving the issue, I'd feel 2 tons better. But right now I'm stuck with a laptop that I can't return for a refund, and the last time I exchanged it, I got one with MORE issues than the first one, so I'm really not sure what to do. Other than sit and wait and pray. :)

sysiphus
May 7, 2006, 01:06 PM
Until I hear consistent reports of MBPs without buzz, screen issues, or overheating for any reason, I'll pass on Apple's lovely flagship...even if it means getting a PeeCee. (But I'm really hoping for either a fix or a reasonably powerful iBook replacement in the next month or so as to have it for college).

TBi
May 7, 2006, 03:27 PM
Until I hear consistent reports of MBPs without buzz, screen issues, or overheating for any reason, I'll pass on Apple's lovely flagship...even if it means getting a PeeCee. (But I'm really hoping for either a fix or a reasonably powerful iBook replacement in the next month or so as to have it for college).

Good idea, although i got bored of waiting and i got mine and kinda regret it now. Hoping they release a fix for the noise as i can handle the heat. It's the noise that pisses me off.

lokistuff
May 8, 2006, 08:29 AM
Surely Apple would have notice at least a few of these issues during testing?

If so, why not just stick to the original schedule and release the Macbook's mid 2006, rather than rushing them through without proper testing?

At least then all the early adopters wouldn't have to wait so long for intel versions of MS Office, Abobe CS etc

KaiMac
May 8, 2006, 08:42 AM
Until I hear consistent reports of MBPs without buzz, screen issues, or overheating for any reason, I'll pass on Apple's lovely flagship...even if it means getting a PeeCee. (But I'm really hoping for either a fix or a reasonably powerful iBook replacement in the next month or so as to have it for college).

I think that is a safe call. I was itching to get an MBP, but not at the expense of these types of problems for that price. I was in the Apple Store in Raleigh Saturday and the MBP's in the store were scorching hot. When quizing the Sales Associates about the heat, they just rolled their eyes as if they had been pounded with this problem for weeks now. The Genius Bar guru stated they have seen a larger than expect exchange rate on the MBP's for all kinds of issues, most of which are documented here. This just proves that buying a Rev. A from Apple is always a very risky and usually regretted move. I'll hold until the Rev. B MBPs or the new Intel Powermac Desktops arrive later this year.

One more note, I found it funny that half the MBP's in the store were running XP and predictably, those were the one's all of the customers were playing with. Apple needs to give up the switch campaign.

MacsomJRR
May 8, 2006, 09:43 AM
One more note, I found it funny that half the MBP's in the store were running XP and predictably, those were the one's all of the customers were playing with. Apple needs to give up the switch campaign.

This is exactly what I am talking about. People come over to see how Windows runs. They like what they see. They restart in Mac OS X, try out iLife 06. Get hooked on OS X and voila. 2% market share becomes 5% - 10% 20% so on and so on. With vitualization under leopard the Mac will out price and out software any competitor by far. Good things are on the way from Apple.

Oh and to be fair. Jobs did mention that professional users who rely on Word and CS to as fast as possible shouldn't adopt early on (during the initial keynote at the beginning of the year).

EDIT: Also please would people stop complaining about the MBP. It freakin rocks darn it:)

roxnadz
May 8, 2006, 10:37 AM
I'm 100% with you.
I always knew it was "risky" to get a Rev A. but still, that should not be the case...

Y'know, not to sound like an Apple apologist, but this is just ridiculous.

Apple is damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they had waited on the MBPs until June, people would be sitting here pissing and moaning about how they couldn't get the computers out early and how they're gonna be losing market share to Dell, HomPaq and Lenovo. But Apple not only managed to bring out the MacBook Pro "earlier," but other computers as well, and all anybody can do is whine about the (relatively few) problems that happened with the launch of a new product.

Does Apple need better QC? Certainly. Is the thermal paste bit a bit of an embarassment? Sure. But I've seen quite a number of these launches and a whine and some heat issues is really not much to scream home about. Also, there are a lot of people out there with MBPs who are not having any problems at all. My Internet Operations department has given out 30 of them so far, only one has had to go back due to a bad trackpad.

But aside from all that, this is a Rev A product. It is bound to have some issues. They can't test EVERYTHING. They are not going to FIND EVERY BUG. That's why Apple is taking feedback from people and fixing the problems.

What is the point of all this whining? Just to hear yourselves? Especially you Apple veterans...you should know better.

aristobrat
May 8, 2006, 11:16 AM
That's why Apple is taking feedback from people and fixing the problems.
What are you basing "Apple is fixing the problems" on?

There are too many threads here and other places from people who have sent their MBPs in for repair are gotten them back not fixed, and people getting recently manufactured MBPs (W8616+) are still having problems.

roxnadz
May 8, 2006, 11:24 AM
What are you basing "Apple is fixing the problems" on?

There are too many threads here and other places from people who have sent their MBPs in for repair are gotten them back not fixed, and people getting recently manufactured MBPs (W8616+) are still having problems.

And there are just as many threads here and other places from people who are sending their MBPs in and getting back ones that aren't broken. What's your point?

TBi
May 8, 2006, 11:34 AM
And there are just as many threads here and other places from people who are sending their MBPs in and getting back ones that aren't broken. What's your point?

Please send me some links to these threads and sites!!!

If i know i can maybe get a non buzzing MBP then i'd be willing to send it back and not get a refund!

aristobrat
May 8, 2006, 11:42 AM
And there are just as many threads here and other places from people who are sending their MBPs in and getting back ones that aren't broken. What's your point?
I haven't seen "just as many threads" where people are getting properly repaired MPBs back. Not on this forum, not on MacNNs forum, and definately not in the Apple Support Forums.

My point was to see what you were basing your "Apple is fixing the problem" comment on. I was hoping that you had some nugget of information that I'd overlooked, having had scoured the forums for the last 3 weeks, trying to figure out the best way to deal with my MBP.

gooberone
May 8, 2006, 08:00 PM
I just put in an order for a 17 inch macbook. I have never owned an Apple product, exception being the ipod. I have always been a PC owner and never thought of owning a mac until I bought an ipod 2 years ago and loved how it was so easy to use. So this will be my first mac and strangely I am not worried about all these "problems" everyone is complaining about. When I walked into an apple store to check out the laptops I was impressed with the macbooks. I think what really decided the macbook for me was the intel chip and the fact you can boot windows xp if you want.

So I honestly don't know what all the fuss is about with these hot and noisy macbooks that people are talking about. Maybe it's because the laptop I currently own (3 1/2 yr old dell inspirion) runs hot all the time and is very noisy. (not to mention it has been freezing and crashing on me very much lately!) I'd say the fan is on quite frequently and it's LOUD. But the fact my good 'ol dell runs hot and noisy doesn't bother me. I really don't mind the warmth as I am always cold and it's a nice heater. LOL. So when I think of my new macbook I can't imagine it can be any worse than what I have now! Actually, I think it will be a dream compared to what I have now. :D

aristobrat
May 9, 2006, 10:00 AM
Maybe it's because the laptop I currently own (3 1/2 yr old dell inspirion) runs hot all the time and is very noisy.
Exactly!

As much as a MBP will be a huge step towards quietness for you, my previous notebook was the last generation 15" PowerBook, and it was abso-fricking-lutely silent (under a normal CPU load ... fans would kick in when it got busy, but that was fine).

I like to stay up later than my other half does, and I got zero complaints using my PowerBook in bed to knock out a few emails or surf the forums until I get sleepy.

My MBP is now banned from the bedroom because if the LCD isn't set to 100% bright (which is way too bright for that situation), it makes a funky buzzing sound on top of the CPU whine, both of which irritate my partner to the point that it's just not worth bothering using it.

Koodauw
May 10, 2006, 12:04 PM
Basically any negative comments in here boil down to one of Three classifications:

1) "My Mac isn't perfect and I'm gonna whine about it." Seriously, most of the people who are complaining about excess heat, a whine, etc., are taking small, average, everyday computer laptop quirks and emphasizing them for effect. They probably wouldn't even notice such things if they weren't reading these forums. A very small percentage of actual owners probably has a legitimate complaint. Either that, or some people have unreasonable expectations from Apple about it's products. I mean, come on... NO computer is going to be able to do what you want. Don't expect Apple to be perfect, just better.

2) "Apple's quality control sucks." No, their quality control doesn't suck, it's no better or worse than any other companies. Most of the documented problems that have arisen have been from the Rev A releases. Historically, Rev A and B releases of ANYTHING are going to have larger than average quality control issues. They're working on solving them, just as any other computer company would do.

Apple releases a computer. It gets rave reviews. They release another. More rave reviews. Another and another... nothing but positives. Then they release something and there are an abnormal amount of problems with it. Suddenly the company's entire history of product releases is nit-picked to death and Apple has the worst quality control ever? yeah, right...

3) "Apple's Hardware Sucks." Well, that's just simple bias against Apple. Most that answer in such a way will say they've had bad experiences with Apple's computers, software, etc., but chances are they've never even TOUCHED one. They're posting because they think they're funny, they're trying to get a rise out of people, etc.

Well when your battery cuts out on you at 95%, I think thats a legit gripe. But i got a new one, and all is well.

There are some problems with the MPB, but nothing as bad as everyone makes it out to be, like you said.

61132
May 10, 2006, 01:09 PM
Just received my MBP 15 inch this week. I have the processor whine, which I fixed. I also have a weird speaker "hiss" when I boot or wake up the computer. Its about 5 seconds of "tv snow" type of hiss, then it fades out. Anyone else have this problem? I called apple and they said that its probably the speakers "starting up". My PB never did this though.

61132
May 10, 2006, 01:11 PM
I would trade it in for a 17 inch, but the 17 is just so big, I think it could be annoying to carry around, especially impossible to use on a plane, maybe not? Anyways I don't travel that much. But its just soo big, lol. Guess I would just have to get a new case.

TBi
May 10, 2006, 01:54 PM
Just received my MBP 15 inch this week. I have the processor whine, which I fixed. I also have a weird speaker "hiss" when I boot or wake up the computer. Its about 5 seconds of "tv snow" type of hiss, then it fades out. Anyone else have this problem? I called apple and they said that its probably the speakers "starting up". My PB never did this though.


How did you fix the whine? I'm very interested as i'm thinking about returning my MBP because of the whine.

aristobrat
May 10, 2006, 01:58 PM
I'm very interested as i'm thinking about returning my MBP because of the whine.
I returned mine for a full refund last night and bought an Intel mac mini to hold me over until I start hearing regular reports that the thermal goo is properly applied and that there aren't any odd whines that can be silence with kernel extensions.

skagen5555
May 10, 2006, 02:07 PM
i'm glad my macbook works perfectly. No whine whatsoever. Not to mention, i bought an antec artic cooler(with bulit in fans) with little rubber stubs from home depot (for separation of laptop and surface) and it works perfectly. I put my laptop on the cooler and the cooler on my lap, i use my macbook for HOURS and it's cool.. even cold a lot of times cause of the fan. Things can be fixed... the whine.. sorry for those who have it, but the fact that your laptop can't sit on your lap can be easily remedied. It's not THAT big of an issue, it's only 35 bucks and you can find cheaper ones as well. The heat is not a big deal at all. THe whine.. no problems, my macbook is perfect cept one dead pixel near the bottom... so i LOVE MY MACBOOK PRO!

aristobrat
May 10, 2006, 02:35 PM
It's not THAT big of an issue, it's only 35 bucks and you can find cheaper ones as well.
I'm guessing that you don't commute with your MacBook Pro. ;)

61132
May 10, 2006, 04:19 PM
For those of you that have a 17mbp, size wise, is it too big to travel with, is it usable on an airplane? I am thinking of upgrading since they do not have the problems my 15mbp has. I do not travel on an airplane that often, but I do take it to work everyday, so I don't know if it will be a pain. And I also would have to find a new case for it.

macreator
May 10, 2006, 07:10 PM
For anyone not reporting the whine, turn off Bluetooth and see if you are still whineless.

I didn't notice the whine on my MacBook Pro until weeks after I got it because I had been using it with my Bluetooth Apple Wireless Mouse and Keyboard.

When my MacBook is connected to the keyboard and mouse via Bluetooth, the whine magically goes away.

It comes back when I get out of range of the mouse and keyboard.

georgespot
May 10, 2006, 08:18 PM
I'm dying to buy a Macbook Pro. The Pro I think because I want the extra screen space, and I'm also concerned the non-Pro won't be able to extend the desktop to an attached monitor. Those are really my main reasons. But we all know the problems the MBPs have been having. I hear the processor whine and the pulsating screens have been fixed (on what now, rev D?), but they're still hot as hell (the heat-paste-stuff issue).

Does anyone know if all those problems, including the heat issue, have been fixed on the MBP 17-inchers? It'd be a good sign if they were, suggests there will soon be a fix for the 15-inchers.

I'm debating whether to wait for WWDC in August before buying a MBP. I *hope* they'll be updated then, with a keynote and press release signal, and with the Merom processors. The Merom processor will be nice, but it will be nicer to have all the kinks worked out from the first model of MBPs. Then again, that's early August and awfully ambitious for Intel.

This raises my last question: historically when do the back-to-school deals begin? July, August? And what are the deals usually? (I've recently returned to school and now qualify for these deals.)

Surreal
May 10, 2006, 08:46 PM
it gets hot..but NORMAL hot at worst. the 15 was too hot on the top even. the area near the magsafe connection, on the bottom, gets the hottest, but it is nothing to get too riled up about.

but wat i suggest EVERYONE who is concerned about the heat do, is go into the apple store in the early even ing and pat down the 15 (carefully) and the 17. i did it with the 15 a month ago and knew i didnt want it. you figure that those will get o the hottest temp by then because the heat has dissipated as much as it can.

the 17" is great though. i havent used it in silence yet, but i have noticed no whine.

GannonMt21
May 11, 2006, 01:07 AM
I just got my MBP 15.4" today. I have not heard the whine and I've been on it for hours. It sure does heat up my lap. My iBook would get warm but not like this. I got a temp stat widget and the highest temp I've seen it display is 40 C or 104 F is that still warm for a notebook. My legs are red when I get up. Ick. My parents got me this to upgrade my iBook for my freshman year in college so I won't have it on my lao in class but it sure does suck when I'm at home. Any suggestions?

TBi
May 11, 2006, 03:39 AM
I just got my MBP 15.4" today. I have not heard the whine and I've been on it for hours. It sure does heat up my lap. My iBook would get warm but not like this. I got a temp stat widget and the highest temp I've seen it display is 40 C or 104 F is that still warm for a notebook. My legs are red when I get up. Ick. My parents got me this to upgrade my iBook for my freshman year in college so I won't have it on my lao in class but it sure does suck when I'm at home. Any suggestions?

Remember that unless you have the speedit kext loaded then what you are seeing is the hard drive temperature (front left of laptop) and not the CPU itself.

Tommy85
May 17, 2006, 06:46 AM
Are the intel chips really as good as they are made out to be? I purchased a MacBook Pro 2GHz 15" under two weeks ago. The first time I booted it up it seemed pretty good, I had a little play with a few things, then went to shut it down; oh no it crashed!! all I wanted to do was shut it down. The next time I used it I decided I would connect my Firewire HD to transfer some files; oh no it crashed!! BEACH BALL OF DEATH!! By now I was pretty annoyed but I still hadn't even install applications such as Logic (yay! I had to pay even more just so it could work on an intel mac). So I opened up finder to start to search through my Hard Drive; oh F@*$ it crashed for the 3rd time in 3 day before I had a chance to even work on it. This still didn't phase me, I still believed it was a good computer and had faith in Apple. I ran utilities etc. It started to work a bit better. I finally installed all of my music software. My Alesis Audio interface would not work with it, and they said it is unlikely it will in the near future, great!So I tried my Emagic interface - that wouldn't work either - even better! Then I tried to use my Waves plug-ins noooo! they didn't work either.
With these problems I decided to connect to the internet to try to get some up dates; but I couldn't even get the MacBook to install the drivers for the modem, so I couldn't even get online. This was the last straw, I had to take it back to the Apple store.

The only use I made out of it was taking some funny pictures and it was good to boast about it to some friends. oooooo and it looks nice.

aristobrat
May 17, 2006, 11:16 AM
Are the intel chips really as good as they are made out to be?
Sounds like you got a lemon. Even before Intel chips, there have been occasional posts of new user with systems that just bombed no matter what people did.

The most common MacBook Pro problems are heat and weird sounds. Extremely few posts about OS X reliability/performance on Intel.