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MacRumors
Jul 11, 2006, 03:15 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

American Technology Research Analyst, Shaw Wu, echoes sentiments (http://www.macobserver.com/stockwatch/2006/07/10.1.shtml) that the new iPod nano will come in a new metal enclosure. Shaw Wu, however, specifically states that the new iPod nano cases will be made of magnesium rather than the aluminum (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/07/20060710111848.shtml). According to Wu, the new magnesium nanos are expected by October of this year.

While there had been rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/08/20030825093728.shtml) of Apple using magnesium alloys for their laptops in the past, the last notable computer enclosure built with magnesium was the NeXT Cube (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXTcube). In 1993, NeXTWORLD's Simson Garfinkel documented his (extensive) efforts (http://web.thock.com/cubefire.htm) at setting a NeXT Cube on fire. (image (http://guides.macrumors.com/Image:Cubefire.gif))

Meanwhile, Wu also reiterates that the Intel PowerMac revision is expected at WWDC (http://guides.macrumors.com/WWDC) on August 7th. He also holds out hope for more to come:

Apple has already announced that it will preview Mac OS X 10.5. Mr. Wu says "With respect to Steve Jobs' track record and element of surprise, we are prepared to see something that no one anticipated."

poppe
Jul 11, 2006, 03:20 PM
So is magnesium more durable than Aluminum?

SteveRichardson
Jul 11, 2006, 03:21 PM
yeah whats the real difference between magnesium and aluminum?

Mac Fly (film)
Jul 11, 2006, 03:21 PM
So is magnesium more durable than Aluminum?
Is magnesium the main element in fireworks?

mozmac
Jul 11, 2006, 03:23 PM
Well, I'm waiting to be amazed. Apple has been pretty quiet in product releases as of late. I'd like to see an iPod that can play while on fire.

Zweben
Jul 11, 2006, 03:23 PM
yeah whats the real difference between magnesium and aluminum?

Magnesium is flamible and burns VERY bright.

I can see it now: Do not smoke while using iPod.

poppe
Jul 11, 2006, 03:24 PM
Magnesium is flamible and burns VERY bright.

I can see it now: Do not smoke while using iPod.

Oh yeah I remember lighting Magnesium on fire at school... Sweet. Hey ma got the new iFlame!

dr_lha
Jul 11, 2006, 03:25 PM
I had a laptop with a magnesium alloy case back in the days before I became a Mac Convert. It was a Sony VAIO 505-TR, and was a very nice light machine. One of the benefits of the magnesium case over the aluminium Powerbook case is the magnesium case never corroded like my 12" PB case has.

freeny
Jul 11, 2006, 03:26 PM
Everything burns and is flamable at the right temperature.

SteveRichardson
Jul 11, 2006, 03:26 PM
sweet. portable music player AND fireplace.

what more do you really need? ...save suffering 3rd degree burns.

monke
Jul 11, 2006, 03:28 PM
I'd like to see an iPod that can play while on fire.

Heck why stop there? Why not make it water proof, fire proof, hurricane and tornado proof, and even lightning proof :p

WildCowboy
Jul 11, 2006, 03:30 PM
For those who are interested in some of the advantages of magnesium, try this (http://www.meridian-mag.com/magnesium/) page. It's in reference to auto parts, but contains interesting general info.

Yes, magnesium is very flammable, but really only in finely powdered form.

chris200x9
Jul 11, 2006, 03:32 PM
oh noes

I can just see someone doing there work on a mpb by candle light then the candle falls on the MPB and it burns....then the flames are so bright that the poor guy burns his retina's not a good idea..... I hope its not elemental magnesium that could cause some problems...:) :confused:

ipod nano oops really need to read better

MNSUGrad07
Jul 11, 2006, 03:32 PM
sweet. portable music player AND fireplace.

what more do you really need? ...save suffering 3rd degree burns.

Haha! That would come in handy, with these long cold Minnesota winters. :D Anyway, anything would have to be more durable than the current Nano enclosures. I love my mini because of its casing, and have waited on picking up a new iPod until I see something more durable. I have no need for a 30-60GB iPod, the 4-6 GB's is the sweet spot for me personally.

thogs_cave
Jul 11, 2006, 03:32 PM
If the iPod gets much smaller and lighter I won't even know I'm carrying one. My nano is already at the "tiny and light" level that I like.

T-Reese
Jul 11, 2006, 03:37 PM
Well, I'm waiting to be amazed. Apple has been pretty quiet in product releases as of late. I'd like to see an iPod that can play while on fire.
HAHAHAH that made me laugh

joeboy_45101
Jul 11, 2006, 03:40 PM
I have an ice cream scoop that's made out of this type of magnesium material it's a beautiful material. I actually talked about using this metal about a year or so ago. I also think that liquid metal titanium would be a beautiful material for the new MacBook Pros or Mac Pros

BornAgainMac
Jul 11, 2006, 03:45 PM
Heck why stop there? Why not make it water proof, fire proof, hurricane and tornado proof, and even lightning proof :p

Oh, you forgot scratch proof. :D

Tanglewood
Jul 11, 2006, 03:52 PM
Give me 5 years and I'll be buying these things in bulk off ebay to put in my New Year's Bonfire to replace the old magnesium VW engine blocks I use now.

Random Avenger
Jul 11, 2006, 03:53 PM
For those who are interested in some of the advantages of magnesium, try this (http://www.meridian-mag.com/magnesium/) page. It's in reference to auto parts, but contains interesting general info.

Yes, magnesium is very flammable, but really only in finely powdered form.

What you people are failing to realize is that Aluminum in a finely powdered form is highly flammable too. In fact, it's the primary ingredient for solid rocket boosters.

FoxyKaye
Jul 11, 2006, 03:56 PM
Magnesium is also used for underwater and air flares. So, I suppose if you're out at sea and your diving lights go out, you could tinder the ol' iPod as an underwater torch. Or, maybe if you're being chased by heat-seeking missiles you could ignite your iPod and toss it out the window...

I'm sure whatever they do it will be fine, though...

chris200x9
Jul 11, 2006, 04:01 PM
What you people are failing to realize is that Aluminum in a finely powdered form is highly flammable too. In fact, it's the primary ingredient for solid rocket boosters.


try lighting aluminum foil..... it won't burn try lighting a strip of magnesium and you have a light show lol

QCassidy352
Jul 11, 2006, 04:07 PM
Let's get a grip here; apple is not going to make ipods that burst in to flames!

FoxyKaye
Jul 11, 2006, 04:08 PM
Let's get a grip here; apple is not going to make ipods that burst in to flames!
Oh, you're absolutely right. It's just fun to think about :D

7on
Jul 11, 2006, 04:16 PM
yeah whats the real difference between magnesium and aluminum?


Right now aluminum prices have skyrocketed. I've heard stories of people stealing aluminum irrigation pipes down south (the thieves turn around and sell the AL).

Squareball
Jul 11, 2006, 04:17 PM
Sounds great!

My dad has a wrench made out of magnesium and it's almost 2 feet long and weighs almost NOTHING. I mean it's so light I can't hardly believe it due to its size.

Bring it on! :)

FoxyKaye
Jul 11, 2006, 04:18 PM
Found this on Wikipedia's page on aluminum:

...aluminium hydroxide is caustic and hydrogen is explosive when mixed with air.
Wikipedia's also got a really great page on the uses and abuses of Magnesium: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium

Shadow
Jul 11, 2006, 04:19 PM
try lighting aluminum foil..... it won't burn try lighting a strip of magnesium and you have a light show lol
Aluminium is actually more reactive than magnesium, its just that if you try to "burn" it, it won't set on fire because it forms a protective oxide layer-Aluminium Oxide, which Magnesium doesnt therefore if you try and "burn" it, it sets on fire.

exabytes18
Jul 11, 2006, 04:22 PM
I had a laptop with a magnesium alloy case back in the days before I became a Mac Convert. It was a Sony VAIO 505-TR, and was a very nice light machine. One of the benefits of the magnesium case over the aluminium Powerbook case is the magnesium case never corroded like my 12" PB case has.

I think your iBook has a magnesium frame.

Magnesium tanishes, but I believe it is like aluminum and practically transparent. As for the flammability, you have got to be really trying to ignite it. Your iPod is not just going spontaneously light on fire.

savar
Jul 11, 2006, 04:24 PM
Is magnesium the main element in fireworks?

Salts of magnesium are used in fireworks, yes.

Chunks of metal? Nooooo, that would just be shrapnel. Setting magnesium metal on fire takes a lot of effort, so nobody get started on "I left my IPod in the sun for 20 minutes and it blew up!" threads.

WildCowboy
Jul 11, 2006, 04:25 PM
There's this apparent debate over whether it'll be aluminum or magnesium, but I'm not sure that Wu and AppleInsider's sources are really in disagreement. It'll probably be an aluminum-magnesium alloy, similar to what is used in soda cans, only thicker and with a different finish.

JackSYi
Jul 11, 2006, 04:26 PM
I believe the iPods are devices used so heavily, plastic coating should never be used, instead use all metal enclosures (just like the minis).

topgunn
Jul 11, 2006, 04:34 PM
The engine cradle of the new Corvette C6 is made primarily of magnesium. If magnesium is the choosen material to contain a 7 liter engine spinning at 7,200 rpms at temperatures hot enough to boil water, it should be good enough for the lowly iPod. Now the MBP, thats another story.

m-dogg
Jul 11, 2006, 04:38 PM
Sounds like a cool idea to me - Bring it on out!

mmmcheese
Jul 11, 2006, 04:42 PM
try lighting aluminum foil..... it won't burn try lighting a strip of magnesium and you have a light show lol


The difference is that no one would make a case out of pure magnesium...it's all about alloys.

Squareball
Jul 11, 2006, 04:52 PM
The real question is, how does apple expect to sell the new Mac Pro when so many of the apps that PROs use are not universal and will be slower than they are on current power macs. Why not just get a refurb to tide you over?

I know they have to release these I'm just saying that it's going to be a hard marketing sell for a lot of people.

hyperpasta
Jul 11, 2006, 05:04 PM
Before my iPod, I had an old iRiver CD Walkman made of Magnesium Alloy. The interface was horrible, but the main unit's design was SEXYYYY.

However, the magnesium definitely did tarnish (it was finished in silver). I'm not sure if it was poor quality, was actually the paint on top of the magnesium that was wearing off, or something else.

Somehow the magnesium rumor sounds off. Unless Apple intends to start sheathing all of their metal products with magnesium, which would be prohibitively expensive, the colors would no longer match.

Rend It
Jul 11, 2006, 05:09 PM
The difference is that no one would make a case out of pure magnesium...it's all about alloys.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

ccunning
Jul 11, 2006, 05:12 PM
Everything burns and is flamable at the right temperature.Water?

Chaszmyr
Jul 11, 2006, 05:33 PM
It is no rumor that Apple has used magnesium alloys in their laptops, it used to be mentioned on the old iBook G4 page.

flukewurm
Jul 11, 2006, 05:34 PM
Let's get a grip here; apple is not going to make ipods that burst in to flames!
http://webpages.charter.net/flukewurm/dumbinternets/captain_obvious.jpg

mduser63
Jul 11, 2006, 05:44 PM
Yes, magnesium is very flammable, but really only in finely powdered form.

That's true, but my dad had an old broken laptop with a magnesium frame. Just for fun he decided to try to light it on fire. I didn't think it would work, because I assumed the frame was probably some alloy including magnesium and besides magnesium doesn't burn easily unless it's in small pieces. Well, it took him a fair bit of effort with a propane torch, but he did succeed in lighting it and it burned VERY brightly, just like a firework.

MattyMac
Jul 11, 2006, 05:49 PM
We need some kind of iPod update soon, its been way tooo long!

...all we have had was a measly introduction of the 1gb nano.

I know they are busy with intel and all, but the iPod market is verrrrrrry important. Not that apple doesnt know this, just saying...

MattyMac
Jul 11, 2006, 05:50 PM
That's true, but my dad had an old broken laptop with a magnesium frame. Just for fun he decided to try to light it on fire. I didn't think it would work, because I assumed the frame was probably some alloy including magnesium and besides magnesium doesn't burn easily unless it's in small pieces. Well, it took him a fair bit of effort with a propane torch, but he did succeed in lighting it and it burned VERY brightly, just like a firework.
Yes, magnesium is definitely sweeeeeeeeeeet!

whocares
Jul 11, 2006, 05:50 PM
Everything burns and is flamable at the right temperature.

No. Helium, argon, xeon and other rare gases do not burn (ie be oxidised), whatever the temperature. ;)

But I guess you can play around with their nuclei instead of their electrons.

Macnoviz
Jul 11, 2006, 05:50 PM
I think a lot of people are thinking too much about their high school experiences with burning up strips of Magnesium, if the nano was to be made out of Magnesium, it would be as flame proof as any other metal/plastic and if the weight is decreased, this could be a nice bonus.
Plus, Aluminium is really energy consuming to make, before WW2, it was a luxury metal, one of the rarest and most valuable metals. With the oil price going up, it is hardly surprising that the Al prices go up too, and people start looking for alternatives

If the rumor is correct, and Apple is still Apple, this change will mean:
Lighter iPod Nano/Shufffle
Cheaper (relatively)
Sexier (according too previous posters)
More scratch resistant (this will be the case whatever material is used)


add these to a larger flash drive and a new sexy design, and the Argo will have no chance whatsoever:)

davey-nb
Jul 11, 2006, 05:54 PM
The real question is, how does apple expect to sell the new Mac Pro when so many of the apps that PROs use are not universal and will be slower than they are on current power macs. Why not just get a refurb to tide you over?

I know they have to release these I'm just saying that it's going to be a hard marketing sell for a lot of people.
We have graphic artists using new Macbook Pros, they didn't know what Rosetta was, they just know Photoshop flies on the new machines. They don't care about Universal versions of software, they care about working fast and efficiently. They all love the new Macbook Pros.

Stridder44
Jul 11, 2006, 05:56 PM
I'd like to see an iPod that can play while on fire.

http://www.bobandaj.info/wp-content/applause.gif

whocares
Jul 11, 2006, 05:58 PM
Water?

Water has already been burnt. ;) :p

ChrisA
Jul 11, 2006, 05:58 PM
yeah whats the real difference between magnesium and aluminum?

Strenght to weight ratio. magnesium is stronger for it's weight. It is also more expensive put even if the stuff goes up to $100 per pound it taks so little magnesium to make an iPod cost of the metal would matter little. It might even be cheaper pound for pound than the plastic they use now.

magnesium will burn in air and the fire is very hard to put out. It will even continue to burn if you toss it into a bucket of water. But the fire is hard to start you would need to leave it exposed a flame from a gas stove or tortch for some time, a match or lighter would not do it. I would assume the plastic nano would burn too if exposed to a blow tortch.

It is actually pretty hard to start a big chunk of magnesium burnning. The metal conducts heat so well that as you put the flame to one end the heat conducts to the other end and radiates away into the air. The stuff that does burn are the "chips" on a machine shop floor. And of course the magnesium powder they use in fireworks. But they will not make iPods with small flakes of metal

DVNIEL
Jul 11, 2006, 06:08 PM
Magnesium is much more durable material than Aluminum with not much of weight difference. If you want to see how durable magnesium is, check out the premium sunglasses that are made by Oakley, they're a company that harnesses the power of Titanium and Magnesium. Any of their frames that have magnesium added to the recipe is significantly lighter than its counterpart that doesn't contain it. They're also less prone to scratches

So I'm guessing they're aiming for a lighter iPod, scratch-resistant, and a more durable shell than the iPod Nano.

Magnesium is only highly flammable if its put under an extreme heat, i.e - the blue cone of the flame using a bunsen burner, and thats if its pure magnesium and not tainted with a mixture of another element.


Hope this sheds a little more light on the beauty of magnesium

Mr. Mister
Jul 11, 2006, 06:13 PM
They should choose to make it out of a metal that has a hardness rating higher than common metals found in coins and car keys. Does anybody know if magnesium is particularly hard to scratch? Seriously, it's not that out of the realm of possibility to have an iPod made out of a scratch-resistant material.\

EDIT: argh villanova, beat me.

And honest to god, they should make the iPods waterproof, how hard would that be? Seriously? Put a single gasket around where the metal back meets the frontplate and some other small adjustments?

Mac_Freak
Jul 11, 2006, 06:32 PM
I wonder if the new MacBook Pros will be using it, if yes then can I give it the official nickname of MagBook Pro ® :D

boncellis
Jul 11, 2006, 06:38 PM
Magnesium would be cool, but I thought it was more expensive than aluminum...strange. I'm probably wrong though.

I remember lighting thermite with strips of Mg in chemistry class. No iPod is going to burst into flames though, because the material will certainly have to be an alloy or at least coated.

Mr. Mister
Jul 11, 2006, 06:39 PM
Maybe the guy is a dumb bunny and in fact it's the Mac Pros that are to be magnesium. :eek:

wedge antilies
Jul 11, 2006, 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeny
Everything burns and is flamable at the right temperature.

Water?


Give it to my Girlfriend, with her cooking skills she'll burn water.:p

-Red 2.

boncellis
Jul 11, 2006, 06:45 PM
Maybe the guy is a dumb bunny and in fact it's the Mac Pros that are to be magnesium. :eek:

A distinct possibility--Wu is not the brightest bulb of the bunch. If the Mac Pro does have a Mg case, that would certainly set it apart from just about everything else I've seen.

One of the things I love about Apple products: you don't want to hide them under your desk. ;)

Silentwave
Jul 11, 2006, 07:01 PM
Many professional cameras use magnesium alloys for their chassis, makes for a very light but amazingly strong frame that will not burn any more than aluminum :)

Electro Funk
Jul 11, 2006, 07:19 PM
WIKI:

Elemental magnesium is a fairly strong, silvery-white, light-weight metal (two thirds the density of aluminium). It slightly tarnishes when exposed to air, although unlike the alkaline metals, storage in an oxygen free environment is unnecessary. Like its lower periodic table group neighbor calcium, magnesium reacts with water at room temperature, though it reacts much more slowly than calcium. When it is submerged in water hydrogen bubbles will almost unnoticably begin to form on the surface of the metal, though if powdered it will react much more rapidly. The reaction will occur faster with higher temperatures (see precautions). Magnesium is a highly flammable metal, but while it is easy to ignite when powdered or shaved into thin strips, it is difficult to ignite in mass or bulk. Once ignited it is difficult to extinguish, being able to burn in both nitrogen (forming magnesium nitride), and carbon dioxide (forming magnesium oxide and carbon).
Magnesium, when it burns in air, produces a brilliant white light. This was used in the early days of photography when magnesium powder was used as a source of illumination (flash powder). Later, magnesium ribbon was used in electrically ignited flash bulbs. Magnesium powder is still used in the manufacture of fireworks and marine flares where a brilliant white light is required.
Magnesium, when glowing white, has many chemical properties that it does not possess at lower temperatures. It also becomes more toxic, although this is irrelevant because the high temperature alone is extremely dangerous.
Magnesium compounds are typically white crystals. Most are soluble in water, providing the sour-tasting magnesion ion Mg2+. Small amounts of dissolved magnesium ion contributes to the tartness and taste of natural waters. Magnesium ion in large amounts is an ionic laxitive, and magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts) is sometimes used for this purpose. So-called "milk of magnesia" is a water suspension of one of the few insoluble magnesium compounds, magnesium hydroxide; the undissolved particles give rise to its appearance and name. Milk of magnesia is a mild base, and is commonly used as an antacid.

galstaph
Jul 11, 2006, 07:31 PM
Aluminium is around 2.50 USD/Kg
Magneium is can be had for $16 USD/Metric Tonne
magnesium is definetly cheaper:eek:
Hurray for the magpod

on the other hand... maybe apple is using the magnesium for a real super computer (http://www.magnesium.com/w3/news-room/news_open.php?news=2261);)

WildCowboy
Jul 11, 2006, 07:33 PM
Magneium is can be had for $16 USD/Metric Tonne

I like to see a reference for this one...the last I saw, magnesium was around $2000/MT. It was big news a few months ago when magnesium prices barely dipped below those for aluminum...I don't know the current prices, but there's no way Mg is going for $16/MT.

Edit: Just checked...Mg is trading for about 1.90 USD/kg.

Demoman
Jul 11, 2006, 07:34 PM
Magnesium is seldom used in its' pure form. It is almost always used as an alloy (mixed with other metals). It can be very brittle, or even soft, depending on how the alloy is crafted. If you have ever seen a picture of an airplane landing and the wheel is on fire, airplane wheel components are often made with magnesium. Magnesium fires are very dangerous to put out. Directly spraying water on burning magnesium usually will result in an explosion. However, starting fire to magnesium is much harder than some here have suggested.

As for cost, magnesium is more expensive than commercial grade aluminum. However, it is a very good metal to CAST. So, you can cast a part in magnesium that requires very little finish machining, as opposed to other material that are formed by bending sheet metal, or machining it from solid stock.

Finally, phosphorous is a magnesium product, or a very similar substance (do not remember exactly) which we are all familiar with. It is used in sparklers, road flares, smoke bombs (grenades), etc. It is unusual in that it produces its’ own oxygen when burning. That is why it can be immersed in water and still burn. The heat is too extreme for the water to cool it and the water cannot smother it because it does not require air.

iJawn108
Jul 11, 2006, 07:36 PM
I would like a tungston nano.:p

freiheit
Jul 11, 2006, 07:48 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought when I was in chemistry class in high school that we learned that magnesium and water have an explosive reaction -- if you thought lawsuits about earbuds conducting electricity when you get hit by lightning were bad, wait until several thousand people catch fire while listening to their iPod in the rain.

freiheit
Jul 11, 2006, 07:51 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought when I was in chemistry class in high school that we learned that magnesium and water have an explosive reaction -- if you thought lawsuits about earbuds conducting electricity when you get hit by lightning were bad, wait until several thousand people catch fire while listening to their iPod in the rain.

Nevermind. I just saw a few posts on this very subject. :P

smetana.yiu
Jul 11, 2006, 09:23 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought when I was in chemistry class in high school that we learned that magnesium and water have an explosive reaction -- if you thought lawsuits about earbuds conducting electricity when you get hit by lightning were bad, wait until several thousand people catch fire while listening to their iPod in the rain.

No...you are wrong, magnesium and water wouldn't have an explosive reaction, that's the Sodium(Na), Potassium(K) and others metal below these in the periodic table.

Although magnesium will have reaction will water, but it will product hydrogen and itself will become Magnesium Hydroxide.

abeyk
Jul 11, 2006, 09:31 PM
i dont care what its made of, as long as its not plastic coated..

iMacZealot
Jul 11, 2006, 09:39 PM
Found this on Wikipedia's page on aluminum:


Wikipedia's also got a really great page on the uses and abuses of Magnesium: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium

Wikipedia's also not a good source for info, too.

MrCrowbar
Jul 11, 2006, 10:12 PM
Who gives a damn if Magnesium burns? Some prestigeous car cockpits are made of brushed magnesium and they look gorgeous. Pretty much everything burns when powedered. And pure metals are very unelikely to be used, alloys are much better suited for any metal cases as they are even more durable. And if your current iPod did not yet spontaniously catch fire, an iPod in a magnesium case would not have either. Do you really hold your iPod over a bunsen burner on a regular basis? I would understand if they planned to make them out of Sodium. :D

I can't wait for Apple to replace the crappy plastic case by metal ones. Portable devices such as mp3-players, laptops, phones etc. should not be made of cheap scratchy plastic in my opinion. It's frustrating how my shuffle scratched within a few days of usage. But it's actually cool the shuffle has no display, I can trow it around without fearing to break anything.

If not metal, make the iPods like the black Macbooks. I torture mine and don't have a single scratch. Actually, there was one at the bottom once but I can't find it anymore. It's cursed I think...

iMacZealot
Jul 11, 2006, 10:15 PM
Who gives a damn if Magnesium burns? Some prestigeous car cockpits are made of brushed magnesium and they look gorgeous. Pretty much everything burns when powedered. And pure metals are very unelikely to be used, alloys are much better suited for any metal cases as they are even more durable. And if your current iPod did not yet spontaniously catch fire, an iPod in a magnesium case would not have either. Do you really hold your iPod over a bunsen burner on a regular basis? I would understand if they planned to make them out of Sodium. :D

I can't wait for Apple to replace the crappy plastic case by metal ones. Portable devices such as mp3-players, laptops, phones etc. should not be made of cheap scratchy plastic in my opinion. It's frustrating how my shuffle scratched within a few days of usage. But it's actually cool the shuffle has no display, I can trow it around without fearing to break anything.

If not metal, make the iPods like the black Macbooks. I torture mine and don't have a single scratch. Actually, there was one at the bottom once but I can't find it anymore. It's cursed I think...

I agree. I recently went to Asia for two weeks and I took my mini over my video, not just because the mini came with a charger, but it's better made. My video iPod scratched the first day I had it!

bobber205
Jul 11, 2006, 10:35 PM
Is magnesium the main element in fireworks?

<blantent_ingorance>
What if the MacBook Pros were mae of magnesium?!?!
BOOM! :eek:
</blantent_ingorance>

Mainyehc
Jul 11, 2006, 10:45 PM
I agree. I recently went to Asia for two weeks and I took my mini over my video, not just because the mini came with a charger, but it's better made. My video iPod scratched the first day I had it!

I don't know about you people, but my 60GB white 5G is still looking great, only very lightly scratched on the front, and even more imperceptibly scratched on the back (you can see those scratches only under certain lighting conditions). Do you know in which case do I carry it? An iPod sock. That's right, I carry it in my right pocket, next to my bulky wallet, almost daily, since early December, and it's still looking great (actually, the sock even helps to clean the natural body grease smudges from the iPod's back plate, so every time I take it out, it just looks, well, shiny). The fact that I carry my keys in my left pocket, along with my ancient Siemens cell phone (which I hand-painted with my ex-girlfriend's black nail varnish coz' its faceplates sucked so badly, and, incidentally, still looks very shiny on most of its surface and "rugged" in the crappiest sense of the word), may explain its near-pristine condition... :rolleyes:

Anyway, I guess I must be one lucky bastard, since the only time I dropped it, luckily it was inside the sock and fell flat on its front face, on the floor, and the HD wasn't spinning. Whew! Also, last night I was holding it with no sock whatsoever while thinking to myself, "I must lay it down before falling asleep, otherwise I may drop it", and woke up in the morning still holding it. You could say that you'd have to pry it out of my warm, living hands. :D

Oh, well, I wouldn't mind if Apple used more resistant materials, though. I'm always telling people to be very careful when even *touching* my iPod, I always pick the best spot where to lay it down when not in use, I never let it come into direct contact with any surface other than the sock or a soft cloth, etc. I certainly wouldn't mind not having to be so anal retentive about scratches... :p

Infinity
Jul 12, 2006, 01:29 AM
Just the throw my 2cents worth, I had a portable Minidisc recorder that had a Magnesium front and an Aluminium back and in the years I had it, the Magnesium front didn't scratch one bit while the aluminium backing scratched quite easily but overall it was very light.

I hope Apple does use Magnesium in their products as it certainly won't dent or scratch as easily as Aluminium they use in the MBP/PB and its much lighter than the stainless in the iPod backs.

Macnoviz
Jul 12, 2006, 01:43 AM
Aluminium is around 2.50 USD/Kg
Magneium is can be had for $16 USD/Metric Tonne
magnesium is definetly cheaper:eek:
Hurray for the magpod

on the other hand... maybe apple is using the magnesium for a real super computer (http://www.magnesium.com/w3/news-room/news_open.php?news=2261);)

Damn, I didn't know they were already planning to build quantumcomputers (I know it's of topic) Good times ahead (but software developers can start again from scratch:) )

gekko513
Jul 12, 2006, 01:49 AM
Plastic burns too. I don't see anyone worrying about their current plastic iPods catching on fire.

WildCowboy
Jul 12, 2006, 02:06 AM
Plastic burns too. I don't see anyone worrying about their current plastic iPods catching on fire.

That excitement is reserved for Dell laptops (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=210749). :cool:

GodBless
Jul 12, 2006, 05:16 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
In 1993, NeXTWORLD's Simson Garfinkel documented his (extensive) efforts (http://web.thock.com/cubefire.htm) at setting a NeXT Cube on fire. (image (http://guides.macrumors.com/Image:Cubefire.gif))Wow that is an interesting story. I rate its entertainment at 5 out of 5 stars. :) *****/*****

Evangelion
Jul 12, 2006, 05:23 AM
Wikipedia's also not a good source for info, too.

Independent studies have found Wikipedia to be about as accurate as Encyclopedia Britannica, with Wikipedia having longer articles that Britannica.

JFreak
Jul 12, 2006, 05:43 AM
Heck why stop there? Why not make it water proof, fire proof, hurricane and tornado proof, and even lightning proof :p

Why not make it idiot proof? Like if you do suspicious things with your computer, it would say "User error. Replace user and press key when ready." :D :D :D

maelstromr
Jul 12, 2006, 06:16 AM
"NeXTWORLD's Simson Garfinkel documented his (extensive) efforts at setting a NeXT Cube on fire. (image)"

Simson Garfinkel? Is that a real name? Somebody's parents had a cruel sense of humor or liked Scarboro Fair just a bit too much...

Glen Quagmire
Jul 12, 2006, 06:31 AM
Independent studies have found Wikipedia to be about as accurate as Encyclopedia Britannica, with Wikipedia having longer articles that Britannica.

Yes, and the length of an article is a good indication of the accuracy of that article, isn't it?


Let's get a grip here; apple is not going to make ipods that burst in to flames!


No, they make laptops that do that.

Evangelion
Jul 12, 2006, 06:39 AM
Yes, and the length of an article is a good indication of the accuracy of that article, isn't it?

let me rephrase that: Articles in Wikipedia were about as accurate as articles in Britannica. AND the articles in Wikipedia were significantly longer than the ones in Britannica. In other words: Britannica and Wikipedia were about as accurate, but Wikipedia offered significantly more content.

Clear now?

MrCrowbar
Jul 12, 2006, 07:36 AM
I just wonder if that also measn the Macbook Pro will switch to Magnesium. I mean, Apple liked to make their things look similar to each other in terms of finish. If iPods and MacPros will be Magnesium (although I think Magnesium is a bit too tough and expensive for a computer standing on a floor or desk), it's very probable the MBP will follow with a new look and magnesium finish.

I know some guy whose 12" powerbook has fallen from not too high and its modem port hit a corner. Now the whole thing is a bit warped and there's a metal dent making it impossible to use the modem. That thing wouldn't have happened with a more elastic (in the phisical way) material. I'm just happy my Macbook is plastic. It looks a bit like from the 80s but I like that. :p

stunna
Jul 12, 2006, 10:03 AM
The engine cradle of the new Corvette C6 is made primarily of magnesium. If magnesium is the choosen material to contain a 7 liter engine spinning at 7,200 rpms at temperatures hot enough to boil water, it should be good enough for the lowly iPod. Now the MBP, thats another story.
LOL !

Glen Quagmire
Jul 12, 2006, 10:19 AM
let me rephrase that: Articles in Wikipedia were about as accurate as articles in Britannica. AND the articles in Wikipedia were significantly longer than the ones in Britannica. In other words: Britannica and Wikipedia were about as accurate, but Wikipedia offered significantly more content.

Clear now?

Oh, most definitely.

Wikipedia: nice idea, shame about the execution. Its greatest strength (i.e. that anyone can alter its content) is also its greatest weakness. I know which of the I would choose, and it would *not* be Wikipedia.

AvSRoCkCO1067
Jul 12, 2006, 10:24 AM
Oh, most definitely.

Wikipedia: nice idea, shame about the execution. Its greatest strength (i.e. that anyone can alter its content) is also its greatest weakness. I know which of the I would choose, and it would *not* be Wikipedia.

Care to share an example of why you're so suspicious of Wiki??? :confused:

peharri
Jul 12, 2006, 11:15 AM
I think they're missing an opportunity here. There should be a return to the Apple I days where people built their own wooden cases.

What's the problem with the wooden iPod? It wooden work! Arf, arf!

whocares
Jul 12, 2006, 12:59 PM
What's the problem with the wooden iPod?

Now that case would definitely burn. :p

Timepass
Jul 12, 2006, 01:30 PM
wow people are so worried about magnisium being used. First off you dont use the stuff in it pure form. In the pure form it is way to reactive to be used. Make an Alloy out of it an boom you got something really good.

Heck most stuff made out of alluim is not made made out pure Al. Most of the time it is an Al. The alloy metal is normally li (the lightest of all metals but highly reactive)

It be some alloy metal with it.

Heck steel is an alloy. up to about 4% carbon by weight. Most metals we used to day are some alloy.

whocares
Jul 12, 2006, 01:34 PM
wow people are so worried about magnisium being used. First off you dont use the stuff in it pure form. In the pure form it is way to reactive to be used. Make an Alloy out of it an boom you got something really good.


That was a poor choice of words. :eek: :p :p

iMacZealot
Jul 12, 2006, 01:42 PM
Independent studies have found Wikipedia to be about as accurate as Encyclopedia Britannica, with Wikipedia having longer articles that Britannica.

But the damn site is all voluntary, no real authority. People could change something on less looked at articles and nobody'd no the difference! My sister's professors do not allow their students to you Wikipedia! Just because something's longer doesn't mean it's bettter! If you've ever used Encyclopaedia Brittanica or the World Book, the authors are pros on the subject, not just some bum that's obcessed with Google!

Evangelion
Jul 12, 2006, 02:42 PM
But the damn site is all voluntary, no real authority.

So? Fact remains, that according to independent studies, Wikipedia is very accurate. Do you think that you can only do a good job when you are paid to do so?

People could change something on less looked at articles and nobody'd no the difference!

nobody would know the difference? Hardly

My sister's professors do not allow their students to you Wikipedia!

That's their choice. It still does not change he fact that according to independent studies, Wikipedia is very accurate. At this point I gues that you will just close your eyes, cover your ears and shout "LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!". But that does not change the FACTS.

Just because something's longer doesn't mean it's bettter!

Am I speaking latin here or something? Let me repeat what I have said: According to independent studies, Wikipedia is very accurate. Meaning: There are very few errors in the entries in Wikipedia. IN ADDITION TO THAT, Wikipedia has longer articles (on average) than Britannica (for example) does. I have NOT said "Wikipedia is better because the articles are longer". I have said that "Articles in Wikipedia are very accurate AND the are on average longer than ones in Britannica". Longer articles means that they have more information than shorter articles do.

Suppose that you were looking for information about string theory (for example). Would you prefer an article on the subject that consist of one paragraph, or one that consists of twelwe paragraphs?

If you've ever used Encyclopaedia Brittanica or the World Book, the authors are pros on the subject, not just some bum that's obcessed with Google!

What makes you think that authors in Wikipedia are "bums"? What makes you think that they are not experts in their field?

You obviously have an axe to grind when it comes to Wikipedia. I haven't seen any reason why you should call the wikipediaistas "bums". So what is your problem here?

Evangelion
Jul 12, 2006, 02:44 PM
Oh, most definitely.

Wikipedia: nice idea, shame about the execution. Its greatest strength (i.e. that anyone can alter its content) is also its greatest weakness. I know which of the I would choose, and it would *not* be Wikipedia.

Go right ahead. That does not change the findings of the independent study. But if you decide not to use Wikiedia. you most certainly have that right.

iMacZealot
Jul 12, 2006, 02:59 PM
Go right ahead. That does not change the findings of the independent study. But if you decide not to use Wikiedia. you most certainly have that right.

Sheesh, that independent study is all you have to back up yourself. On the A380 article, the height was changed from 78ft 6in to 78ft 3in, and stayed up there pretty long! And there are plenty more. I read one about "Larry King's farting habit" that stayed up for a month. Yes, many articles in Wikipedia are accurate, but minor things can be changed without notice. And when I said the thing about the bums, I meant that I'd rather read what a person with a PhD in Botany has to say about the Brasilian Verbena over a Wikipaedist that just has googled the subject a few times. Sure, it's okay for just a brief overview on something, but it should never should be used for professional or academic purposes, as even said by the founder of Wikipaedia. (http://chronicle.com/wiredcampus/article/1328/)


So, what do you have do say? Maybe quote that study few times again for me, please. :p

Evangelion
Jul 12, 2006, 03:24 PM
Sheesh, that independent study is all you have to back up yourself.

So, you would like me to ignore FACTS, is that it? I should just pretend that the study does not exists?

You are claiming that Wikipedia is not accurate. I'm saying that according to independent study carried out by the Nature-magazine, Wikipedia IS accurate. You are disputing that claim. In that case I think that you need to go talk to Nature and tell them that they have no idea what they are talking about.

on the A380 article, the height was changed from 78ft 6in to 78ft 3in!

Oh the humanity! So which of those figures is the right one? If it's the latter, are you then complaining becuase they find errors and fix them?

Thank $DEITY Britannica has no errors in it! No sirree! Nevermind the fact that it DOES contain errors as well (in Natures comparison, they found 8 "major errors". 4 of those errors were in Wikipedia, 4 were in Britannica.

And there are plenty more. I read one about "Larry King's farting habit" that stayed up for a month.

Exception to the rule. That is what Nature said about those kind of entires in Wikipedia after their study. You do know that there are over a million articles in Wikipedia, and you are whining becuase you found one that has some weird comments in it? And if it stayed up for a month, why didn't you fix it? I have actually fixed two articles in Wikipedia (I don't remember the other, but the second was some grammar-fixes in English article about Finnish mythology.). Took me about 5 minutes in total.

And maybe he does have a farting-habit ;)?

Yes, many articles in Wikipedia a accurate, but minor things can be changed without notice.

Well, there is the history-function that provides information to what was change, when was it changed and who changed it. So it's not like the changes simply appear without anyone noticing. Each article has a detailed history that shows EXACTLY what has been changed.

And when I said the thing about the bums, I meant that I'd rather read what a person with a PhD in Botany has to say about the Brasilian Verbena over a Wikipaedist that just has googled the subject a few times.

What makes you think that the article in Wikipedia was not written by someone who has a PhD in Botany? "oh no, they are just bums who use Google!". Generalize much?

So, what do you have do say? Maybe quote that study few times again for me, please.

Oh, I dunno. Maybe YOU could just say "but anyone can edit it! They are just bums!" few more times? Nevermind that it's utterly pointless and dumb, but that's the only thing you seem to have to say.

"but.... anyone can edit it!"

peharri
Jul 12, 2006, 04:07 PM
But the damn site is all voluntary, no real authority. People could change something on less looked at articles and nobody'd no the difference! My sister's professors do not allow their students to you Wikipedia! Just because something's longer doesn't mean it's bettter! If you've ever used Encyclopaedia Brittanica or the World Book, the authors are pros on the subject, not just some bum that's obcessed with Google!

Can I point out, because it seems to be constantly missed, that the guy did not say "An independent study said that Wikipedia articles are longer and therefore more accurate." He said that an independent study said Wikipedia articles are generally as accurate as the EB.

And, seperately, Wikipedia articles tend to be longer (that is, more in depth and informative) than EB articles.

I can recall this coming up and the Encyclopedia Britannica actually being actively dishonest and misleading in their attempts to debunk the study.

Wikipedia's accuracy is not a question of article length and NOBODY is suggesting it is. Wikipedia is generally an extremely accurate body of work. Given this, and given the fact it covers a more diverse range of subjects, in more depth, than the EB, it is a more useful work.

Oh, and to answer the criticism that you think this doesn't make sense: Wikipedia is:

- Continually peer reviewed.
- Comprised of contributions usually written by experts in their field
- Constantly monitored by people looking for incorrect modifications to pages they've added.

Additionally, if you're just looking for a starting place, Wikipedians are usually very good at citing sources.

By comparison, the EB has some degree of editorial control, but can't very well get experts together for every little subject that comes up. It's not surprising the EB contains mistakes.

You can't rely on either as a definitive source, but objectively Wikipedia is a more useful starting point than the EB, and it's certainly fair to point someone its direction if you believe the article to be largely accurate and if it contains links that'll allow a reader to research further.

Mainyehc
Jul 12, 2006, 04:45 PM
Oh, and to answer the criticism that you think this doesn't make sense: Wikipedia is:

- Continually peer reviewed.
- Comprised of contributions usually written by experts in their field
- Constantly monitored by people looking for incorrect modifications to pages they've added.

There's also the discussion, in which you can participate or just read, which can be useful particularly when reading disputed articles that may carry a bias (like politics)... Also, for certain articles, only registered users are allowed to edit content to prevent vandalism. Overall, I think they succeeded in building an almost "self-supporting" system. And no, I'm not afraid of some nasty orwellian scenario, as my sig. could lead you to think :p


You can't rely on either as a definitive source, but objectively Wikipedia is a more useful starting point than the EB, and it's certainly fair to point someone its direction if you believe the article to be largely accurate and if it contains links that'll allow a reader to research further.


Although this approach may lead to inaccurate external material creeping into an otherwise reliable source, I've found that on some potentially obscure subjects (namely the conspiracy theories around the 9/11/73 military coup in Chile and the 9/11/01 attacks, about which I had to make an essay and design a 4-page newspaper-like brochure), the various angles and theories are explored, explained, and linked to. It's up to you to believe the sources, since they are usually so diverse in nature and opinion, just as, say, in "real life" (a.k.a. god-awful-google, which really sucks for serious on-line research), only they are partially digested for you to use them as a starting point, like peharri pointed out.

lifeofart
Jul 12, 2006, 06:14 PM
wow people are so worried about magnisium being used. First off you dont use the stuff in it pure form. In the pure form it is way to reactive to be used. Make an Alloy out of it an boom you got something really good.

Heck most stuff made out of alluim is not made made out pure Al. Most of the time it is an Al. The alloy metal is normally li (the lightest of all metals but highly reactive)

It be some alloy metal with it.

Heck steel is an alloy. up to about 4% carbon by weight. Most metals we used to day are some alloy.

Apple knows what they are doing.

I use to have a motorcycle that had a magnesium alloy block. Believe me that block got a heck of lot hotter than any ipod or powerbook, it took an infinite more amout of abuse, and it was as light as a feather.

Bring on the Merom, Magnesium, Macbook or Triple M book.

finalcoolman
Jul 13, 2006, 02:34 PM
I can't believe the excitment here over Apple actually using a high quality material. But it IS Apple we are talking about here:rolleyes:

Big whoop, I have a radio from the late 1970s all made of magnesium, a laptop all made of magnesium and a few audio players/recorders some dating from the mid 90s all made of magnesium. If you're looking for a way to flame me for my comment and I know some will because of my critisisims over the angel called Apple, here is a clue, they are all Made in Japan.

hulugu
Jul 13, 2006, 05:56 PM
Oh, you forgot scratch proof. :D

Don't ask for miracles.

I can't believe the excitment here over Apple actually using a high quality material. But it IS Apple we are talking about here:rolleyes:

Big whoop, I have a radio from the late 1970s all made of magnesium, a laptop all made of magnesium and a few audio players/recorders some dating from the mid 90s all made of magnesium. If you're looking for a way to flame me for my comment and I know some will because of my critisisims over the angel called Apple, here is a clue, they are all Made in Japan.

Yeah well I had a laptop made out cast iron from Guatemala, so there.

hulugu
Jul 13, 2006, 06:37 PM
...Yes, many articles in Wikipedia are accurate, but minor things can be changed without notice. And when I said the thing about the bums, I meant that I'd rather read what a person with a PhD in Botany has to say about the Brasilian Verbena over a Wikipaedist that just has googled the subject a few times. Sure, it's okay for just a brief overview on something, but it should never should be used for professional or academic purposes...

That's not true, one of the things that's nice about Wikipedia is the change log which allows you to see what has been changed and who changed it. This allows a transparency that the EB doesn't have.
However, anyone who uses either the EB (or any Encyclopedia or general source) or Wikipedia as a basis for professional or academic purposes is in trouble, and I think most people know this.
I wouldn't use Wikipedia to write an engineering paper of magnesium engine cradles, but I would say the article on Magnesium was effective and useful to give me an idea of how flammable (or not) it happens to be.

Timepass
Jul 13, 2006, 08:40 PM
Apple knows what they are doing.

I use to have a motorcycle that had a magnesium alloy block. Believe me that block got a heck of lot hotter than any ipod or powerbook, it took an infinite more amout of abuse, and it was as light as a feather.

Bring on the Merom, Magnesium, Macbook or Triple M book.


That is what I said. Apple not to going to use pure magnesium. Pure magneisum is way to reactive. I said that it be some alloy. Magnesium alloys are good but people here are acting like apple going to use pure magnesuim and no one is stupid enough to use that. If they are they deserverd to be fired. Pure magnesuim is to reactive. An alloy on the other had is good.

hulugu
Jul 14, 2006, 01:24 AM
That is what I said. Apple not to going to use pure magnesium. Pure magneisum is way to reactive. I said that it be some alloy. Magnesium alloys are good but people here are acting like apple going to use pure magnesuim and no one is stupid enough to use that. If they are they deserverd to be fired. Pure magnesuim is to reactive. An alloy on the other had is good.

Exactly. Apple already has experience with magnesium alloy, that's what the iBook's framework was made from.

Only jewlers make things out of pure metals, everything else is some kind of alloy.

jamesnajera
Jul 14, 2006, 02:07 PM
How is magnesium going to prevent the screen from being scratched? I could care less what the ipod is made out of. The only thing I care about is how is Apple going to prevent the screen from being scratched. Apple should do what Nokia has done for the Nokia 8801 cell phone, and use a saphire crystal (Or hell if Apple wants to go cheaper then use a mineral cyrstal) for the iPod screen. This will prevent scratches completly. The only draw back with saphire is that it will chip, but keep in mind watch makers uses saphire and mineral crystal all the time on GOOD watches. These watches are used daily like an iPod and people hardly drop them hard enough or bang them hard enough to chip them. Hell I bang my watch really hard sometimes (on accident) and just expect to see a chip, when I look down my watch is perfectly fine, no scratches or chips, and I have had it for over two years.

just my thoughts
late

hulugu
Jul 14, 2006, 11:26 PM
How is magnesium going to prevent the screen from being scratched? I could care less what the ipod is made out of. The only thing I care about is how is Apple going to prevent the screen from being scratched. Apple should do what Nokia has done for the Nokia 8801 cell phone, and use a saphire crystal (Or hell if Apple wants to go cheaper then use a mineral cyrstal) for the iPod screen. This will prevent scratches completly. The only draw back with saphire is that it will chip, but keep in mind watch makers uses saphire and mineral crystal all the time on GOOD watches. These watches are used daily like an iPod and people hardly drop them hard enough or bang them hard enough to chip them. Hell I bang my watch really hard sometimes (on accident) and just expect to see a chip, when I look down my watch is perfectly fine, no scratches or chips, and I have had it for over two years.

just my thoughts
late

Well, it might be a problem of cost since the Nokia 8801 is around $500+. There might be a problem of manufacture, cost, and readability of LCDs through crystal. Or Apple may not think is necessary.

morespce54
Jul 18, 2006, 10:12 AM
Salts of magnesium are used in fireworks, yes.

Chunks of metal? Nooooo, that would just be shrapnel. Setting magnesium metal on fire takes a lot of effort, so nobody get started on "I left my IPod in the sun for 20 minutes and it blew up!" threads.

cool... will see the inevitable return of the "man-auto-set-on-fire" urban legend... :D :D

"I swear, the man bursted into flame while skipping through his playlists"
- Eye witness ;)

morespce54
Jul 18, 2006, 10:59 AM
But the damn site is all voluntary, no real authority. People could change something on less looked at articles and nobody'd no the difference! My sister's professors do not allow their students to you Wikipedia! Just because something's longer doesn't mean it's bettter! If you've ever used Encyclopaedia Brittanica or the World Book, the authors are pros on the subject, not just some bum that's obcessed with Google!


Off topic...
Still, I look at Wiki first and then I always double-check with other sources of information.
Wiki might have weakness but there's so much information (and images, sounds, etc.) All at the same address!