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Flowbee
May 2, 2003, 04:52 PM
The clever guys at iPoding have discovered that the new iPods have a recording feature built-in!

"Well, we couldn't wait so we went to the local Best Buy and picked up a new Gen 2 15GB. It's going to be taken apart soon, but we first ran Diagnostic Mode on it. It has a recording feature! There is also a test for LINEIN that does recording too. We don't have a mic to test with it at the moment but after "recording" when we listen to the headphones we hear the sound of nothing recorded (you know what we mean right?)"

http://www.ipoding.com

[Edit: Could a microphone be the new 'communication device' recently rumored?]

Flowbee
May 2, 2003, 04:54 PM
Here's a photo:

Walter2wine
May 2, 2003, 06:00 PM
Now THAT'S a reason to sell my old one and buy a new one. Backlit buttons and solitaire just weren't doing it for me. I wonder when this will be official.

codycartoon
May 2, 2003, 06:08 PM
i am getting a new ipod in like an hour...so i will test this out...but if this is true why didnt apple advertise it?

-cody

jayb2000
May 2, 2003, 06:10 PM
25 gigs of music and space left over to record classes or whatever.

Best thing to happen to bootlegs in a long time if the quality is anygood! :D

evoluzione
May 2, 2003, 06:12 PM
if only i could afford one today...

i deliberately avoided going to SoHo in case i succumbed to temptation, and i can't being doing that!

Mr.Hey
May 2, 2003, 06:14 PM
I'm thinking its because ITS NOT READY ;). Hence the reason why Steve didn't mention it. It will probably be in the next release firmware version. Remember this will violate your Apple Care Warranty and if you ****** it up Apple will tell you to tick it were the sun don't shine.

i am getting a new ipod in like an hour...so i will test this out...but if this is true why didnt apple advertise it?

-cody

nebben123
May 2, 2003, 06:15 PM
wow, if this is true and the iPod will include some decent A/D conversion and record in AIFF then it will be the end of my MiniDisc player. good quality line-in uncompressed recording is what i have been waiting for.

it could be a DAT killer too! i couldn't imagine an easier way to record than with iPod. go to a show, plug in your mics, record, hook it up to your Mac, copy the new file over, do a bit of editing, burn to CD... done!

hopefully this is true! i love my MiniDisc but depending on how Apple does it, a recording iPod could kill. right now with MD, even if you record your own stuff through line-in there is no way to get it back out in digital form unless you buy one of the "pro" decks ($600+) with a digital out on it. pitiful!

iPod with good quality recording = *drool*

nebben123
May 2, 2003, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by codycartoon
i am getting a new ipod in like an hour...so i will test this out...but if this is true why didnt apple advertise it?

-cody

well i'm guessing it's because the external hardware (ie. a LINE-IN JACK) is not there yet. ??? i think it's just in the firmware/OS of the iPod.

matty8r
May 2, 2003, 06:19 PM
So, the third section of the connector is for something afterall!
sweet! http://www0.info.apple.com/images/kbase/61900/61900_2.jpg

edit: and I'm not talking about the little black tab either (that's for the remote). I'm talking about the fact that the plug has three stripes instead of the two we normally see on stereo headphone plugs.

Freg3000
May 2, 2003, 06:19 PM
Really, really cool. I am surprised though, don't you think Steve would have previewed the recording feature last Monday? I mean, he previewed some iTunes 4 stuff at MWNY almost a year ago, so why not this?

peterjhill
May 2, 2003, 06:19 PM
what is the macrumors.com version of slashdotting, because I can't get to the site. Time to check the google cache :D

neut
May 2, 2003, 06:22 PM
this is what I have been waiting for. PDAs have been toteing 24-bit recording as the future (for sound engineers), but who needs another device to get in the way?

An i-pod that records? ***** Yeah!

Ok, so...

My TiPB can sit in my new Honda Element (hooked up to the audio in) while i record whatever outside (like when we go camping), then i come back in, dump it to the HD, and start mixing?

Wholly ****! I can't wait!!!!!!!

blackcrayon
May 2, 2003, 06:22 PM
it's not the third section of the remote that is carrying the Mic in- because just the headphones plugged right into the iPod work "fine" for the recording (fine as in very noisy since they arent a real microphone :) The headphone jack on the headphones only has 2 sections (the ones closest to the tip)...

outward sound
May 2, 2003, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by nebben123
well i'm guessing it's because the external hardware (ie. a LINE-IN JACK) is not there yet. ??? i think it's just in the firmware/OS of the iPod.

I would agree. Is there currently anywhere to plug a microphone into an iPod? Not to sound overly skeptical, but it would also give Apple an accessory to manufacture/sell with the iPod. IMHO for the price, it really should include audio recording capability...

yzedf
May 2, 2003, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by peterjhill
what is the macrumors.com version of slashdotting
MR'ed

/.'ed

fark'ed

etc etc

slavey
May 2, 2003, 06:42 PM
As to where the audio line in could be, remember that there is a new, custom connector on the bottom of the iPod.

Perhaps one of these pins is a audio-in?

KLFloyd
May 2, 2003, 06:48 PM
Okay, I'm not really familiar with the technical aspects of this so maybe someone can give me a general answer to this question:

About how much space are we looking at a recording taking? Would it be recorded in AIFF, ACC, or what? If it was AIFF it would eat HD space quickly, epically if you were recording a lengthy interview or class lecture.

It would be important to know so I knew if I should get the 10, 15 or even 30 GB version.

macdong
May 2, 2003, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Flowbee
[Edit: Could a microphone be the new 'communication device' recently rumored?]

Finally.....
I see the light of my endless MD-recording nightmare...

mim
May 2, 2003, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by blackcrayon
it's not the third section of the remote that is carrying the Mic in- because just the headphones plugged right into the iPod work "fine" for the recording (fine as in very noisy since they arent a real microphone :) The headphone jack on the headphones only has 2 sections (the ones closest to the tip)...

I remember from those dim dark days when I played around with electronics that you could turn any speaker into a microphone by reversing the current through it. I believe the reason that most devices have a seperate line-in is so you don't have to stuff around plugging/unplugging cables. There is no reason the d/a-a/d converters couldn't run through the same socket.

a.

[edit: when I say reversing the current, I'm being a bit dumb. Instead of using current to move the magnet in your speaker around to produce sound, you let the sound move the magnet around to generate current. It's that simple. There is no real difference between the hardware required. You just need an A/D converter to pick up the incomming current. They're cheap as to make/buy too. There's no reason what so ever that this won't be a future feature.]

MrMacMan
May 2, 2003, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by peterjhill
what is the macrumors.com version of slashdotting, because I can't get to the site. Time to check the google cache :D
do you mean MacSlash (http://www.macslash.com/)
or...
/. own apple area? (http://slashdot.org/apple/)

Macrumors -- MR.com'd
Slashdot -- /.
Mac slash -- Mac/

recording device in the iPod... hmmmm

melchior
May 2, 2003, 07:20 PM
through the headphone jack is a mono line in, but there is also apparently a stereo capability in the special connector thing at the bottom..

laodamas
May 2, 2003, 07:21 PM
About how much space are we looking at a recording taking? Would it be recorded in AIFF, ACC, or what? If it was AIFF it would eat HD space quickly, epically if you were recording a lengthy interview or class lecture

The PortalPlayer chip (assuming the architecture has not changed) that Apple is using has the capability to encode all the formats it officially decodes (AIFF,MP3,WMA). Recording can only be supported on the new iPods due to the addition of a ADC (Analogue to Digital Converter) and some reshuffling of the GPIO (General Purpose input/output) pin usage on the PortalPlayer chip.

Anyway with a thirty gig drive, you could store over 3700 minutes of uncompressed CD Audio, or 7400 minutes of compressed lossless audio.

well i'm guessing it's because the external hardware (ie. a LINE-IN JACK) is not there yet. ??? i think it's just in the firmware/OS of the iPod.

The line in jack IS the headphone plug! "Speak into Left earphone when "BEGIN..." appears" This implies that the headphone jack is wired as a mic jack :) Hopefully its stereo. Someone with a new iPod needs to try this procedure with a mic or two and try different miniplug configurations to see how the port is wired up.

jethroted
May 2, 2003, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by matty8r
So, the third section of the connector is for something afterall!
sweet! http://www0.info.apple.com/images/kbase/61900/61900_2.jpg

edit: and I'm not talking about the little black tab either (that's for the remote). I'm talking about the fact that the plug has three stripes instead of the two we normally see on stereo headphone plugs.

There is actually 4 parts. You count the metal parts not the plastic ones. Normally there should be two metal parts, and one plastic for a stereo hook up. So this has 2 more than normal. Mic & headphones?

FuzzyBallz
May 2, 2003, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by matty8r
So, the third section of the connector is for something afterall!
sweet! http://www0.info.apple.com/images/kbase/61900/61900_2.jpg

edit: and I'm not talking about the little black tab either (that's for the remote). I'm talking about the fact that the plug has three stripes instead of the two we normally see on stereo headphone plugs.

You see a third strip because of this (http://www.minidisc.org/classd_amp.html). The mini tab is for the remote. Any seasoned Sony CD and MD owner should be familiar w/ the tab.

punter
May 2, 2003, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by jethroted
Normally there should be two metal parts, and one plastic for a stereo hook up.

Don't you mean 3? One for each channel and one for the earth?

Edit: see the post before for a good link from FuzzyBallz. (I think) it describes this this 4 metal connector set up as having a positive and a negative wire for left and right.

Dunepilot
May 2, 2003, 07:52 PM
would it be possible for Apple to design a microphone that would plug into the iPod's firewire port?

Any audio pros care to comment?

arn
May 2, 2003, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by Dunepilot
would it be possible for Apple to design a microphone that would plug into the iPod's firewire port?

Any audio pros care to comment?

Problem is - the iPod has no Firewire port anymore on it.

arn

Le Big Mac
May 2, 2003, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by outward sound
I would agree. Is there currently anywhere to plug a microphone into an iPod? Not to sound overly skeptical, but it would also give Apple an accessory to manufacture/sell with the iPod. IMHO for the price, it really should include audio recording capability...

Is there a technical reason the line-out can't function also as a line in? In other words, plug in a mic. instead of headphones, and you're recording. The only thing you can't do is monitor the recording itself.

ipman
May 2, 2003, 08:14 PM
Hey all,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn 't it be possible to connect the mac's sound out to the headphone jack and then (for instance) record streaming radio? Cuz that could be fun. :) Sort of a throw-back to the old recording radio onto a casette tape, only with digital quality :)

melchior
May 2, 2003, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by Le Big Mac
Is there a technical reason the line-out can't function also as a line in? In other words, plug in a mic. instead of headphones, and you're recording. The only thing you can't do is monitor the recording itself.

technically, the ADC doesn't care and you could rig them up together. this is however very unusual in the electronics world if only because it's something of a quasi standard to have the jacks seperated.

besides this, according the article, the headphone jack is a mono in and the special dock connector has pins for stereo in.

holy MAC!
May 2, 2003, 08:53 PM
think about it: the old remote had the exact same amount of buttons... and it had:

the 3 pins on the rod
+
1 out side loop wire surrounding the center rod

=
4 total

the new remote:
3 on rod
+
4 on the separate one
that's 3 extra!!!!!

thrice
May 2, 2003, 09:16 PM
Hey, check this out. It turns out a guy hacked his old iPod remote and outlined the connector on the old remote. Turns out there are 6 (not 4) contact areas. There are two metal circles, one is just difficult to see as it is inside the outer circle.
Check it out here. http://www.maushammer.com/systems/ipod-remote/ipod-remote.html


I dont' think the new ports for headphones/remote would support a mic (since there's really only one additional contact now). I think it would either be a new cable that is a female 1/8 or 1/4 stereo plug into a plug that fit the bottom port of the iPod. OR, Apple would introduce a new dock or both or you could record through the existing line out port on the dock.

ericdano
May 2, 2003, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by nebben123
wow, if this is true and the iPod will include some decent A/D conversion and record in AIFF then it will be the end of my MiniDisc player. good quality line-in uncompressed recording is what i have been waiting for.

it could be a DAT killer too! i couldn't imagine an easier way to record than with iPod. go to a show, plug in your mics, record, hook it up to your Mac, copy the new file over, do a bit of editing, burn to CD... done!

hopefully this is true! i love my MiniDisc but depending on how Apple does it, a recording iPod could kill. right now with MD, even if you record your own stuff through line-in there is no way to get it back out in digital form unless you buy one of the "pro" decks ($600+) with a digital out on it. pitiful!

iPod with good quality recording = *drool*

Yeah, I agree. With good A/D and signal to noise ratios, I'd ditch my minidisc player too.

ericdano
May 2, 2003, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by KLFloyd
Okay, I'm not really familiar with the technical aspects of this so maybe someone can give me a general answer to this question:

About how much space are we looking at a recording taking? Would it be recorded in AIFF, ACC, or what? If it was AIFF it would eat HD space quickly, epically if you were recording a lengthy interview or class lecture.

It would be important to know so I knew if I should get the 10, 15 or even 30 GB version.

Well, 80 minutes is roughly 700 megs. Do the math. The advantage is that you can dump it right to your main computer to do edits. So, for me, recording a rehearsal or performace requires me to dump my MiniDisc to the computer then I can edit. So, I have to essentially play back the whole concert. With an iPod, I'd hook up the firewire, and boom, it's there to be edited.

ebow
May 2, 2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by FuzzyBallz
You see a third strip because of this (http://www.minidisc.org/classd_amp.html). The mini tab is for the remote. Any seasoned Sony CD and MD owner should be familiar w/ the tab.

That's a good and logical explanation (though I don't understand all the technical details). But then why do the iPod's headphones themselves (the portion that goes to your ears and does not include the remote) only have 3 metallic areas separated by two rings? (no digital camera to show you a picture).

coolsoldier
May 2, 2003, 09:36 PM
I don't really know much about the tech details, but since blackcrayon reported some level of success recording using his headphones, wouldn't that indicate that you could plug a microphone into the same jack?

telly333
May 2, 2003, 09:40 PM
Hmmmmmm

1) huge amount of space on the iPod

2) Firewire/USB2.0/USB1.1 Connection via pinout on bottom

3) 8Hrs of run time

This may be part of Uncle Steve's plan to allow us to hook one up a mic OR to our DV camcorders or a camera attachment and record some audio/video?

Also with the addition of USB 2.0 (bkwds compatible with USB 1.1) this could be hooked up to a USB Digital camera for guiltless shooting of stills...

these are exciting times...

Meow!

melchior
May 2, 2003, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by coolsoldier
I don't really know much about the tech details, but since blackcrayon reported some level of success recording using his headphones, wouldn't that indicate that you could plug a microphone into the same jack?

likely yes, but more important right now is that the diagnostic record function only allows 6 seconds. unless there is a hacked firmware we will have to wait until apple releases it's software... probably in june...

LethalWolfe
May 2, 2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by jethroted
There is actually 4 parts. You count the metal parts not the plastic ones. Normally there should be two metal parts, and one plastic for a stereo hook up. So this has 2 more than normal. Mic & headphones?

Whether you count metal parts or plastic parts the end result is the same because the plastic seperates the metal. So if you have 2 plastic stripes you'll have 3 metal sections. 6 to one, half dozen to another. For stereo sound you'll have 2 plastic strips. The first section of metal (the tip) is used just to "lock" the jack in place. The next two sections of metal are what carries the signals. The only time I've seen a mini-jack seperated w/3 rings is on some MiniDV cameras that use one jack to i/o both audio and video from a single port.


Lethal

mclosers
May 2, 2003, 11:25 PM
Maybe Apple is waiting to enable this feature until they release their audio editing app at WWDC. Just a thought.

rice_web
May 2, 2003, 11:32 PM
Students Get iPods as Study Aids (http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/02/1645241&mode=thread&tid=188&tid=176&tid=146&tid=99) [SlashDot]

Hmm... an iPod with recording features could be very useful. Recording lectures would be great.

In fact......

Professors should actually record themselves and make their MP3s available on their college's website.

zac4mac
May 2, 2003, 11:35 PM
Just tried it with a new 15GB. Set to record and talk into the earbuds. I heard my own voice on my iPod!!!

Diagnostic mode is same buttons as old ones.

<edit>Go to test "D", press the center button and say something in the left bud. You get a "rumble-tapping" in the right ear.

This is fun. Just noticed, as the 'Pod goes into diagnostic mode, the Apple logo is backwards

voyagerd
May 2, 2003, 11:57 PM
Yes, it does work though the headphones as well as line in. It also works with non-Apple headphones. I can't find a way to save the files though.

voyagerd
May 3, 2003, 12:16 AM
Cool! I can plug two pairs of headphones into my mic and line in ports and do karaoke through sound card!

FYQ-93
May 3, 2003, 12:40 AM
Has anyone tried the old iPod remote (no tab) on the new iPod? It should work just fine. The old iPod did not have/need this connector...the remote used the same extended length plug.

Just curious...I'm thinking that the new connector is for something else in the future.

A microphone would be the most logical...and if you use the remote cable, a microphone can be plugged into it and used as a lapel mike! That is why the remote has the "tab" connector...

Mudbug
May 3, 2003, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by voyagerd
Cool! I can plug two pairs of headphones into my mic and line in ports and do karaoke through sound card!

finally someone's found a way to do karaoke without irritating the crap out of everyone else around them!

Keep up the good work - we're counting on you! :)

zac4mac
May 3, 2003, 01:02 AM
The old remote won't fit the new 'Pod. Tiny jack, no room for the outer ring the old one has.

FYQ-93
May 3, 2003, 01:27 AM
That would account for the tab...moving the extra connectors off of the large outer /inner rings to the side connector.

The new iPod is thin...the firewire port and the original all-in-one headphone/remote port had to be modified.

Thx zac4mac for the info!

Grimace
May 3, 2003, 01:32 AM
There are normally two metal sections for stereo (tip, ring) with a plastic connector separating the two.

For "balanced" connections, there are three (tip, ring, sleeve) with two plastic parts separating them.

The latter allows sound to pass both directions, as in balanced studio setups.

The fourth section could be any new signal that apple wants to send to/from the iPod, there is no way to tell which direction. We'll just have to wait and see, but quad cable is definitely being used.

Arcady
May 3, 2003, 02:02 AM
I don't know why people in here keep saying that a standard stereo 1/8" headphone connector only has two metal sections, or that the tip is not used, but they are wrong.

The tip is the left channel (or the mono channel in a mono connector, which is the one with only two metal sections). The ring section is the one next to the tip, and carries the right channel. The sleeve is the third part, and carries ground for both channels (or the mono channel in a mono connection).

There are 4 conductor 1/8" connectors for audio use, which have a seperate ground for each channel, but the new headphones have a 3 conductor connection, so the extra wire must be for something other than audio out.

The fact that when in use as a mic, the left channel of the headphone works is because a mono mic uses a mono connector, which corresponds to the left (tip) and sleeve (ground).

RandomDeadHead
May 3, 2003, 03:22 AM
Best thing to happen to bootlegs in a long time if the quality is anygood!

You dirty fu*king bootlegger. People who bootleg will cause the demise of free tapeing.

People said the same thing about the minidisc recorders, and what have we now? Collage idoits who think they know everything about tapeing just because they have a $100.00 minidisk deck, and have been to sevral phish shows. These are the same people that sell live "bootlegs" in the parking lots, and jeopardize the future of live tapeing for the people who actualy give a ***** about the music.

Their is NO way Apple will be able to make an iPod that records as clean as a minidisc recorder, and you know what? Minidisc recorders SUCK. Nothing aginst Apple at all, but to do a proper recording of this type you need a good preamp and at least 2 XLR imputs. I highley doubt that they could fit XLR's on an iPod without makeing it five times bigger, and without them you are limited to cheap wallmart microphones.
To do a proper recording you need these things:

Tascam or sony DAT deck, $2700
Decent preamp, $500 at LEAST
A pair of microphones, $500 each, realistically $1000 each.
Blank DAT tape, $15-20

Without these items your recording will sound like crap trust me, I have personaly taped over 150 Grateful Dead concerts over the past 20 years not to mention Phill and friends, and Ratdog shows.


And PS, they are called "Audience recordings" NOT "bootlegs", Bootlegs are Soundboard copy's that are sold in crummy music shops under the counter, where the band dosent recieve any of the profit, they are also illegal. Kinda like copying a M&M cd and then selling the copyies to people for a profit. An audience recording can NOT be bought or sold, it must be given to you, or traded for one that you have.

Calling an Audience recording a "bootleg" is just like calling a Mac a peecee.


Sorry for the rant but the bootleggers MUST DIE!
:mad:

Oh and by the way, if you or ANYONE on the forums would like to hear what a GOOD audience recording sounds like, just pm me and I will send you one for FREE. Or look at my partial list at:

db.etree.org/darkstar5
(http://db.etree.org/darkstar5
)

and pick one out. I would be MORE than happy to make you a free copy of anything I have.

ericdano
May 3, 2003, 03:53 AM
Originally posted by RandomDeadHead
Their is NO way Apple will be able to make an iPod that records as clean as a minidisc recorder, and you know what? Minidisc recorders SUCK.


I'd disagree. Minidisc recorders can provide EXCELLENT recordings if one has the proper microphone and places it in a good spot.

...you need a good preamp and at least 2 XLR imputs. I highley doubt that they could fit XLR's on an iPod without makeing it five times bigger, and without them you are limited to cheap wallmart microphones.

Um, thats not true either. I own a Rode NT4 stereo mic, and it's not Walmart quality at all. It sound good via XLR connections or via the mic input on a Minidisc player

To do a proper recording you need these things:
Tascam or sony DAT deck, $2700
Decent preamp, $500 at LEAST
A pair of microphones, $500 each, realistically $1000 each.
Blank DAT tape, $15-20

Without these items your recording will sound like crap trust me.

Um, no. I just recorded a concert using my Minidisc and Rode mic and it sounded way better than the two Nuemann mics they hung in the house. Maybe bad placement or something, but it was not as detailed nor as balanced as the Minidisc/Rode combo.

You have a point. A "Professional" recording rig will have all those things. But for us "average or slightly above average" people, a recordable iPod would save me time and I would not have to worry about the Minidisc running out during a rehearsal/concert/session or whatever. Yeah, it's not studio quality, but it sounds damn good enough to me. And if Apple could get an iPod with some sort of recording feature that would let me record to AIFF or WAVs and it had good S/N ratios and A/D converters, I'd buy it. Until then, Minidisc works very very well. It is just a pain in the ass to have to play it back to the computer.

supercow
May 3, 2003, 06:13 AM
Perhaps thats why they didn't release a 2.0 for the old ipod... because it doesn't have recording capabilities. Well at least so it seems...
God I wish I had waited a month. Recording was the only other thing I wanted in an Ipod. Grrrr...
Well life is tough, get a helmet. :p

Alex

bennetsaysargh
May 3, 2003, 11:52 AM
i have it working, and it's kinda cool.

apple would not endorse bootlegging because that is steling music.

i tryed installing 2.0 on my brother's 20GB, and it doesn't work. he's stuck at 1.3

Venkman
May 3, 2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by RandomDeadHead
[B]You dirty fu*king bootlegger. People who bootleg will cause the demise of free tapeing.

over the top, i think. i'm sure when he said "bootleg" he meant "taping". like it or not, "bootleg" is a common term for live audience and soundboard recordings, whether they are sold or traded.


People said the same thing about the minidisc recorders, and what have we now? Collage idoits who think they know everything about tapeing just because they have a $100.00 minidisk deck, and have been to sevral phish shows.

so what? people are using minidisc to get into taping and learn more about it. why not? it's cheap, and has great sound quality if you use some half-decent equipment with it.


These are the same people that sell live "bootlegs" in the parking lots, and jeopardize the future of live tapeing for the people who actualy give a ***** about the music.

how did you figure this out exactly? bootlegs have been sold in stores for years. if you don't like them, don't buy them. how is it "jeopardising the future of live taping"? it's been going on for years, and, stangely enough, people are showing no signs of stopping taping.


Their is NO way Apple will be able to make an iPod that records as clean as a minidisc recorder, and you know what? Minidisc recorders SUCK.

no they don't.

Nothing aginst Apple at all, but to do a proper recording of this type you need a good preamp and at least 2 XLR imputs. I highley doubt that they could fit XLR's on an iPod without makeing it five times bigger, and without them you are limited to cheap wallmart
microphones.

what? i spent $300 on sound professionals microphones with a bass roll-off filter, and they don't need XLR inputs.


To do a proper recording you need these things:

Tascam or sony DAT deck, $2700
Decent preamp, $500 at LEAST
A pair of microphones, $500 each, realistically $1000 each.
Blank DAT tape, $15-20

Without these items your recording will sound like crap trust me

i think you're a snob who's TALKING crap.

you can get some amazing results with minidisc and $200-300 microphones.

And PS, they are called "Audience recordings" NOT "bootlegs", Bootlegs are Soundboard copy's that are sold in crummy music shops under the counter, where the band dosent recieve any of the profit, they are also illegal.

as i said before, the term "bootleg" is commonly used for any sort of unnofficial live recording. get over it.

quantegy
May 3, 2003, 02:23 PM
I agree with Venkman. Snobby is right. There is all kinds of new stuff coming out that is just as good if not better than DAT. DAT is old news. It is so dead. You couldn't get me to use a DAT if you gave it to me. Buying a tape for every show and then having to play it back to get it on your computer. What a waste. I think you will be the only one using a DAT deck in a couple years. And also, those prices seem a little inflated for DAT decks. Especially since you can get used ones for $300-400 because people are going to much more efficient ways of recording. As for new decks go, that Tascam DA-P1, which is probably the best DAT deck out there, is only $1500 new. You sound old and completely oblivously to new technologies. If the iPod can record WAV or AIFF at 16/44.1 then I'm sure it will be way better than MDs. WAY better. I think its cool. Its such a great way to record. And you don't have to have recorded for 20 years to know what to buy and make good recordings. There are all sorts of great taping sites out there to ask questions and learn about different techniques and read reviews on all the newest equipment. One can easily make GREAT recordings with a $1000 rig (mics, preamp and recorder). Its like saying you can't live a happy life unless you make $100,000 a year. ****** you for putting down people that don't have thousands to spend but do know what they are doing, and do have quality equipment and do make excellent recordings.

G4scott
May 3, 2003, 04:20 PM
OK, some here are saying you can't get good audio recording unless you have big, heavy equipment, but what's up with this 24-bit PDA recording stuff that we're hearing about? With digital, I imagine the power and speed of the processor is the major determining factor of the quality of the music. Just plug in a good mic, and it sounds great...

Of course, I don't know that much about recording...

Now, when you use this trick to record, where does it save the files? do you have to be in diagnostic mode? I'm interested to see how this works...

adamberti
May 3, 2003, 05:45 PM
The way the recording is set up makes perfect sense to me. If you're on the road and need to record a voice note - just record through your earphones, or if you're taping a lecture of something, then bring the mic and get a decent recording. But if you really need high quality stereo recording, then you're probably in a situation where you have access to power, so hook up your dock and the stereo recording to the line-out.

I guess all we need now is the firmware and accessories.

One thing I do not understand, (although many things that Apple does are hard to understand) is why they wouldnt release this option now. It would seem to me, if I recall based on old rumors and such (iPods on tuesday - okay next tuesday, maybe the one after, how about one more week guys?) that the iPods were possibly done quite a while ago, they just were waiting for the music store negotiations and stuff to be ready to make one big release. The only info I see against them being ready a while ago is the USB 2.0 functionality being delayed until June, although that could be a switch to Mac scheme.

I could go out on a limb and say Maybe the Record Companies dont want this thing touted as a recording device yet, untill they see how people buy their songs. I think they have a lot of push and pull with Steve right now.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

adamberti
May 3, 2003, 05:56 PM
One more thought on a couple of possible features. Somebody wanted their iPod secure, to be able to type in a code to access it or something, if it goes more PDA'ish, how about a voice password, remember OS 9?

And if Apple could release new amazing voice recognition software, you could record those lectures and have them converted to Text files. Maybe you could even watch it show up in the new NoteReader!

But now I'm just wildly speculating :D

LimeLite
May 3, 2003, 07:56 PM
Don't know if any of you care, and I'm not speculating anything, but I wanted to point out that the only other jack that Apple has that I personally know of that has the the 4 metal sections seperated by 3 plastic ones is the A/V cable that they sent with some of the iBooks to connect it to the TV. I took a picture:

adamberti
May 3, 2003, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by LimeLite
Don't know if any of you care, and I'm not speculating anything, but I wanted to point out that the only other jack that Apple has that I personally know of that has the the 4 metal sections seperated by 3 plastic ones is the A/V cable that they sent with some of the iBooks to connect it to the TV. I took a picture:

Not speculating? I think that is one HUGE speculation :D that would be pretty cool though, especially if this Generation iPod will be upgraded to Video, however, I highly doubt that. As for the same style connection, any old plug is going to look the same, little bits of plasic separating the different channels. So I wouldnt look TOO deeply into it.

melchior
May 3, 2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by adamberti
Not speculating? I think that is one HUGE speculation :D that would be pretty cool though, especially if this Generation iPod will be upgraded to Video, however, I highly doubt that. As for the same style connection, any old plug is going to look the same, little bits of plasic separating the different channels. So I wouldnt look TOO deeply into it.

it's true there are different possibilities for the extra piece of metal. it is possibly for grounding or possibly for video or possibly for something else.

frankly, if this is for ground, it would be a first for apple. even though i don't like to side with *ahem* video iPod freaks!!!! i would buy the idea of an s-video out rather than a ground.

G4scott
May 3, 2003, 10:39 PM
I don't think the other section is for video. It's for higher quality sound, or for recording. How? I don't know, but video just doesn't seem like a possibility...

Sherman
May 3, 2003, 11:39 PM
Here's the thing, to make the left earphone record, they DO NOT have to add another contact. All they're doing is letting the magnet drive the iPod hardware, instead of the other way around.

And I think the point LimeLite was trying to make is that there's only 2 earphones, but with that cable, there's 3 outputs, indicating stereo line-in. Crazies.

ibookin'
May 3, 2003, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by RandomDeadHead
Calling an Audience recording a "bootleg" is just like calling a Mac a peecee.

Only problem is a Mac IS as PC. PC stands for "Personal Computer", not for any specific platform.

zac4mac
May 4, 2003, 07:05 AM
Took yesterday off from the computer and rode my Harley. Beautiful day, but that's OT. Well, not really, I was listening to tunes under my flight hat.

Just discovered, the output jack on the new base seems to be a line-level out. iPod volume control has no effect(althought the volume slider moves). Other controls work fine.

This is very cool, playing tunes straight from the 'Pod, while it's plugged in. This'll be great on my Mac at work, won't have to tax it's wimpy G3 with iTunes...

bellis1
May 4, 2003, 02:18 PM
I've never owned an iPod but if this is the case then I will buy one in a second. Lets just hope the quality is good. And if you could watch the input levels on the screen it would be a godsend. I have a Tascam DAT and toyed with the idea of a minidisc but just thought it would be a waste of time. Nomad jukebox will record but it is not very great. This is a niche that apple could steal from everyone else. It is about time. Make the announcement with the software and I will buy it in a second and even buy the larger gig version. It just needs to be of good quality and you need to be able to monitor the recording level. Very very cool stuff. And just for the record I am not a Phish fan who cannot affor a Tascam. Just waiting for the right product. Although the recording through the earbuds must make them dirty kids smile.

quantegy
May 4, 2003, 06:12 PM
Ooooo, a little snobbery from you too, eh bellis? Stereotyping Phish phans and putting down products you've never used. Classy.

You know, I'm not a Mac person at all, don't own one Apple product, although I keep very up to date on Apple products as well as a lot of other products, especially with regards to recording. As I see it, Apple is jumping on the bandwagon for hard disc recording if it even comes to that. So what though right? If it happens to do 24/96 recording than that would be a milestone, and cheers to Apple, but I doubt very serouisly it will. From what I've read it feels more video oriented anyway, but maybe both. I will definitely be sizing it up if its audio recording and may end up getting one. Its very exciting. Bring on all the cool electronics from all companies.

bellis1
May 4, 2003, 10:59 PM
Snobbish, possibly? Although I have to state that I have tried out both, Phish and MD recorders, and have been very disappointed. The problem with the MD is simply the transfering and the lack of quality minijack microphones (for my uses). The problem with Phish is the crowd and trying to fill in a niche that became vacant in the mid 90's. But it is a great example of market niche that needs to get filled. My question is what other quality devices are available besides DAT, MD, and the Nomad Jukebox? Others must have run into the same problems as I have had in trying to find a small device with high quality and the ability to easily control the recording levels. I've waited awhile for such a device to come on the market and am more than happy to wait for Apple. Phish fans I apologize unless you were some of the young drug induced fans watching Phish at Jazz Fest in New Orleans today!

lazyrighteye
May 5, 2003, 12:56 PM
Maybe the recording your heard, bellis1, was lesser quality mics or pres than you are used to (as you surely know, it's all about the front in).
I have heard dozens of live recordngs on a Nomad, and they sound equivalent to the hundreds of DA-P1 recordingds I have made. If you have the same rig running > either a P1 or a Nomad, 98% of listeners can not tell a difference. And audiophiles are gonna chime in with the "tape is warmer" concept. It is... but again, 98% of listeners can not tell a difference (and sometimes I wonder about that other 2%).

When MD hit the scene (mid 90's), the quality was not there (still isn't), as it compresses the audio too much, for many DAT tapers' tastes. But with 24/96 digi audio, DAT is as dead as... The Dead ($70 a night for Red Rocks is dissappointing). It is safe to say, that portable digi recording has arrived.

bellis1, this may be something you are interested in:
http://www.sounddevices.com/products/7.htm

Or this:
http://www.core-sound.com/HighResRecorderNews.html#PDAUDIO

You may also want to check this site for any live audio recording information:
http://www.sonicsense.com

I think I have written Apple on a semi-daily basis, requesting they make the iPod able to record 24/96, uncomressed, .AIFF stereo audio, knowing it's not really a niche for them to dabble in. And while I am excited about these new iPods (mainly that nifty 32 pin port along the bottom), I feel we're looking at more of a video push from Apple here, and not audio (although I hope I'm wrong as I see many advantages to having a powerful, portable recording device).

I have had many successful recording sessions on my iBook/500, OS 10.2.5, via a Roland UA-30 and Peak LE 3.21 (like last night). But that's when I have supplied power, which is rare in field recording. When I'm dependadnt on my iBook's battery, fuggetaboutit. I can't even, safely record a 1.5 hour set. So, when it counts, I'm still dependant on my P1.

And while there are 3rd party batteries out there that would easily power my iBook for an entire 3 hour show (for $500), the idea of taking an iPod-only is just too droolable. Would like to see this happen.

Regardless, these latest developments/discoveries are pretty interesting. Will be fun to see where we go from here.

lazyrighteye

mowgli212
May 5, 2003, 02:00 PM
From everything I have read here and on other Mac/iPod boards it sounds like the proposed recording capabilities of the iPod will be limited to mono wav recording from a mic like the Creative Labs Zen with optional remote. This would really suck and would be even less functional than the Zen, which has the added ability of recording from the included FM tuner. What I have been waiting for is a stereo line-in and mp3 encoding functionality like Archos and even the Mambo-x Box have. Please tell me I'm wrong about this.

Eniregnat
May 5, 2003, 03:45 PM
Great feature, but I bet there is going to be a major firmware upgrade, perhaps even a hardware one, mainly because I don't see a bit depth or quality selection on the posted screen shots.

Also, why assume that it's for audio- why not audio and/or video?

bennetsaysargh
May 5, 2003, 08:04 PM
a microphone, and a firmware/software update should do the trick. you might be able to plug the microphone into the bottom or the one next to the headphone jack.

but one factor remains true all of the time...
only time will tell...

jayb2000
May 9, 2003, 10:53 AM
v. boot·legged, boot·leg·ging, boot·legs
v. tr.
1. To make, sell, or transport (alcoholic liquor) for sale illegally.

2. To produce, distribute, or sell without permission or illegally: a clandestine outfit that bootlegs compact discs and tapes.

OK, so I guess approved "Audience Recordings" is the correct term. :confused: :rolleyes:

I was more thinking that since DAT is Digital and so is the iPod, that this could open up some great possibilities for people that did record concerts.

Its a cool technical possibility, thats all. :cool:
A 30gig portable recording device would be very handy, whether it was for class lectures, business meetings, or concerts.

Thanks to those that commented on the uncalled for attack.

bennetsaysargh
May 9, 2003, 03:29 PM
i don't think a lot of people online sell bootlegs, they either just put them up for download or trade. it's only illegal if you're caught!

i want the recording feature by august because that's when im seeing aerosmith.

Wardofsky
May 14, 2003, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by KLFloyd
Okay, I'm not really familiar with the technical aspects of this so maybe someone can give me a general answer to this question:

About how much space are we looking at a recording taking? Would it be recorded in AIFF, ACC, or what? If it was AIFF it would eat HD space quickly, epically if you were recording a lengthy interview or class lecture.

It would be important to know so I knew if I should get the 10, 15 or even 30 GB version.

If they were to put it in the official OS, they would let you have a choice of encoding (AAC, AIFF, MP3, WAV etc.) and bit rate.

bennetsaysargh
May 14, 2003, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by Wardofsky
If they were to put it in the official OS, they would let you have a choice of encoding (AAC, AIFF, MP3, WAV etc.) and bit rate.

it might not be able to encode into AAC in real time though. it might need to do AIFF and then convert it to AAC, but im not sure. would it be able to be recorded right into AAC?

Switcher2001
Sep 21, 2003, 12:22 AM
I've been waiting patiently for five months already for Apple to unveil (or enable) this recording capability with a software update for the iPod. I could really use a digital voice recorder now, though. I shopped around, and I would have to spend at least $100 to get anything decent. Why should I have to spend more money on a device that only holds 64 MB RAM, though, when I've got this 30 GB iPod that could record if Apple would only unveil its capabilities? What's the stalling about? Anyone have any idea when I'll be able to start recording with my $500 iPod (which is already only worth $400)?