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MacRumors
Feb 6, 2007, 10:12 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Following the news (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/06/apple-announces-worldwide-developers-conference-wwdc-2007/) that Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference will take place Jun 11-15th this year, Apple has sent out WWDC "Save the Date" invitations to developers with a Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard theme:

http://images.macrumors.com/article/savedate.jpg

This June, the center of the Mac universe will be in downtown San Francisco, as developers and IT pros from around the globe come together for the Apple Worldwide Developers Conference. Don't miss this opportunity to get unparalleled access to Apple engineers, a firsthand look at the latest technology, and the kind of inspiration you won't find anywhere else.

The invitation reflects a Time Machine theme (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/timemachine.html) - a feature to be introduced in Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard.

Apple provided a Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard preview at last year's WWDC and has promised a Spring 2007 release.



likeavaliant
Feb 6, 2007, 10:14 PM
loooks fun

BillyShears
Feb 6, 2007, 10:14 PM
What would Jobs talk about if there were a keynote and Leopard was already shipped?

BWhaler
Feb 6, 2007, 10:15 PM
I hope the new time machine looks like that. That's a nice clean-up of the beta.

I really, really hope Leopard is stellar.

Tiger was a tad bit lack luster. Apple has had a ton of time to code and test. I hope we see incredible features across the board.

mrwilly123
Feb 6, 2007, 10:15 PM
unparalleled access to Apple engineers

Unparalleled, eh?

Maybe this indicates an Apple-developed replacement for Parallels...

;)

TheBobcat
Feb 6, 2007, 10:19 PM
The dates aren't highlighted in blue, they're highlighted in SHINY BLACK!!!!!!!!!!

Teh MAC's new user interface is HERE!!!111

PS: Yeah Time Machine looks much better, could be a rendering, but it wouldn't suprise me if they cleaned it up to look prettier with their few months.

MistaBungle
Feb 6, 2007, 10:19 PM
June 15th - WWDC?
June 15th - iPhone?
Not June 15th - Leopard?

ero87
Feb 6, 2007, 10:19 PM
I hope the new time machine looks like that. That's a nice clean-up of the beta.

I really, really hope Leopard is stellar.

Tiger was a tad bit lack luster.

I hope Leopard is stellar too, but Tiger is amazing. Spotlight, widgets! both huge additions.

sam10685
Feb 6, 2007, 10:20 PM
are you serious? i can't wait until June for a keynote.

Daveway
Feb 6, 2007, 10:21 PM
June 15th - WWDC?
June 15th - iPhone?
Not June 15th - Leopard?

If they wait till June then Leopard better kick some major butt. Doesn't bode well with my planned school purchase either.:(

gauchogolfer
Feb 6, 2007, 10:23 PM
I just got my email notice and came here to post it....too late :p.

Looks like fun to me.

WebHead
Feb 6, 2007, 10:25 PM
D'yall think that metal appearance will be the system-wide theme?

syklee26
Feb 6, 2007, 10:26 PM
isn't June technically "summer?"

Analog Kid
Feb 6, 2007, 10:26 PM
Second week of June is technically still Spring, isn't it... Argh.

Is it just me or are we looking at a really boring first six months of '07?

Too bad that invite isn't interactive or we could look back at earlier version of the calendar and see how their plans changed.

monke
Feb 6, 2007, 10:26 PM
What would Jobs talk about if there were a keynote and Leopard was already shipped?

There will be a keynote. It's basically a given at these events.

spicyapple
Feb 6, 2007, 10:27 PM
Save the cheerleader. Save the world. :)

These Apple marketers must be fans of Heroes. So it begs the question why they chose to go with the Time Machine theme.

Analog Kid
Feb 6, 2007, 10:27 PM
isn't June technically "summer?"
I think summer starts at the solstice-- June 20 or 21.

bigandtasty
Feb 6, 2007, 10:30 PM
So many possibilities as to what will be released during the conference!
Now this event sounds like it could be, "BigandTasty" ;)

EricNau
Feb 6, 2007, 10:33 PM
I think summer starts at the solstice-- June 20 or 21.
Correct, so WWDC 2007 actually takes place in spring.


As for the UI depicted in that invite: I'm hoping we find it unified throughout the entire system.

bdkennedy1
Feb 6, 2007, 10:35 PM
I'm assuming that the grey part of the calendar is what the windows will look like.

polyesterlester
Feb 6, 2007, 10:38 PM
PS: Yeah Time Machine looks much better, could be a rendering, but it wouldn't suprise me if they cleaned it up to look prettier with their few months.

How is it any different? The only difference I can see is that the arrows and timeline aren't showing.

brianus
Feb 6, 2007, 10:39 PM
Uh, what does WWDC have to do with the release of Leopard? They're two separate things. Tiger was released in "spring" 2005 (late April), and WWDC'05 was also in "spring" 2005 (early June). The presumption has long been that, like two years ago, the new operating system would be available long before WWDC. There is nothing to contradict that as yet.

Correct, so WWDC 2007 actually takes place in spring.


As for the UI depicted in that invite: I'm hoping we find it unified throughout the entire system.

Why? Just curious, because I see this sentiment a lot, and it makes no sense to me. I find a handful of different, but complimentary UI styles on the same system to be a boon to productivity. Apps that do different things should look different. I would hate to go into Exposé and have to take more than a split second to distinguish one app from the other.

iPodAddict
Feb 6, 2007, 10:43 PM
This is bullcrap. I'm not waiting until friggin June for Leopard. Not happening.

My friend that works for Apple has a friend that works in software down on the Loop and from what he's telling me, Leopard is not far off. He doesn't go into specifics, but it's definitely looking like some time before April. As for an early iPhone release, who knows. I would like to see it in April too, but if that happened, what would they announce at WWDC? Maybe a new Mac design?

Personally, I still have my heart set on a February event for Leopard, iLife, iWork and possibly a "One more thing..." wide-screen iPod.

So timeline: February 20th is Leopard, iLife, iWork, and Video iPod. WWDC is iPhone, new Mac(s) and um... ponies. iPonies.

Mark my words, this is what will happen (maybe not the iPonies though)

ppnkg
Feb 6, 2007, 10:44 PM
I was looking again at the preview of leopard on apple's page. Did they use to have a video for every new feature? if they did, some of them , eg Ical, are not there anymore.

I just hope I won't have to buy a new mac after leopard... I just have this (irrational?) feeling that apple's new tricks will stretch my imac...I would hate that.

Chundles
Feb 6, 2007, 10:46 PM
isn't June technically "summer?"

Summer doesn't begin until the Summer Solstice (longest day of the year) when the pole is at it's closest to the sun.

This occurs in the northern hemisphere around the 3rd week of June and in the southern hemisphere where I am in the 3rd week of December.

So while it's convenient for us to think of the seasons starting and ending with the months the actual seasons don't quite behave the way we think.

Then as the pole starts to swing away from the sun the days get shorter until the orientation of the poles is at a tangent to our orbit - these are the vernal/autumnal equinoxes when the length of daylight and night is exactly the same. This occurs during the 3rd week of march for the northern spring/southern autumn and the 3rd week of september for the northern autumn/southern spring.

So yeah, now you know.

Analog Kid
Feb 6, 2007, 10:48 PM
Uh, what does WWDC have to do with the release of Leopard? They're two separate things. Tiger was released in "spring" 2005 (late April), and WWDC'05 was also in "spring" 2005 (early June). The presumption has long been that, like two years ago, the new operating system would be available long before WWDC. There is nothing to contradict that as yet.
Because when it comes to rumors, if given A and B then one must find a way of making them simultaneously true. Special prizes are awarded to the people who can string the most incongruous rumors together based on the most insignificant details of each.

Apparently, Leopard will ship only with a grey calendar app and a cool cosmic theme...

The Stig
Feb 6, 2007, 10:49 PM
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

WTF!!! I DON'T WANT TO WAIT UNTIL JUNE!!! WHY TELL ME NOW!!! I'm so depressed...

10.5 better be released before that, or I won't be happy!! I would of rather of not known and been excited when it was closer... I know you have to tell people about it early so people can get there but.... nothing... I just love apple so much I don't want to wait for anything.... I'm sorry Steve... I'm not mad at you... I'll just wait...

The Stig

gauchogolfer
Feb 6, 2007, 10:51 PM
Easy on 'teh smilies™' there champ.

There's nothing here that says Leopard will be released at WWDC this year. So don't get so worked up about it, OK?

Chundles
Feb 6, 2007, 11:02 PM
:mad:

WTF!!! I DON'T WANT TO WAIT UNTIL JUNE!!! WHY TELL ME NOW!!! I'm so depressed...

10.5 better be released before that, or I won't be happy!! I would of rather of not known and been excited when it was closer... I know you have to tell people about it early so people can get there but.... nothing... I just love apple so much I don't want to wait for anything.... I'm sorry Steve... I'm not mad at you... I'll just wait...

The Stig

Ahh, that's better. So much anger.

Leoff
Feb 6, 2007, 11:04 PM
This is bullcrap. I'm not waiting until friggin June for Leopard. Not happening.

My friend that works for Apple has a friend that works in software down on the Loop and from what he's telling me, Leopard is not far off. He doesn't go into specifics, but it's definitely looking like some time before April...

So timeline: February 20th is Leopard, iLife, iWork, and Video iPod. WWDC is iPhone, new Mac(s)

Mark my words, that wis what will happen

Friend of a friend... gotta love it.

How'd you go from Leopard arriving "some time before April" to February 20th?

I've bookmarked your reply to this post. In 14 days we'll see how right you are. On the off-chance that you're wrong, can we expect a retraction?

Personally I'd rather Leopard come out when it's DONE, as bug-less as possible. It shouldn't be rushed to the masses just to satisfy overzealous Macophiles.

nslyax
Feb 6, 2007, 11:07 PM
I have had the feeling for a few months that the "secret features" of Panther won't be shown until WWDC, with Panther's release a week or so later, say the 19th.

I don't like having that feeling though.

Chundles
Feb 6, 2007, 11:10 PM
I have had the feeling for a few months that the "secret features" of Panther won't be shown until WWDC, with Panther's release a week or so later, say the 19th.

I don't like having that feeling though.

Panther's secret features?

I can post you detailed screen grabs of every single one of Panther's flagship features.

Anyone can really, it's a few years old now.

Peace
Feb 6, 2007, 11:11 PM
I have had the feeling for a few months that the "secret features" of Panther won't be shown until WWDC, with Panther's release a week or so later, say the 19th.

I don't like having that feeling though.

Forget that feeling.

Panther has been out for a long time :p

beat me to it Chundles!!

Analog Kid
Feb 6, 2007, 11:13 PM
May be fake. May be real. *shrugs* Take what you will out of it.

All that means is that Apple will probably have released the iPhone sometime before June 15th. Could be the morning of the 15th, could be tomorrow. They just want the FCC to keep things dark for 6 months.

Edit: Come to think of it, that may not even be related to iPhone....

freiheit
Feb 6, 2007, 11:14 PM
My friend that works for Apple has a friend that works in software down on the Loop and from what he's telling me, Leopard is not far off. He doesn't go into specifics, but it's definitely looking like some time before April.

I certainly hope you're right. I sold my G5 PowerMac (maximizing resale value before the next line of Intel powered Macs are released) and am anxious to buy a new system, but I want to get it with Leopard loaded (ie. so as not to spend an additional $129 or so a month or two later to upgrade the OS). I REALLY want Leopard (and a new rev of some Macs) so I can dismantle my PC at last. If I have to wait until June I will but I'll be biting my fingers off until then.

reckless_0001
Feb 6, 2007, 11:19 PM
I was looking again at the preview of leopard on apple's page. Did they use to have a video for every new feature? if they did, some of them , eg Ical, are not there anymore.

I just hope I won't have to buy a new mac after leopard... I just have this (irrational?) feeling that apple's new tricks will stretch my imac...I would hate that.

I can remember if there were videos there either. One thing I am curious about though is, What is that icon between Keynote and Garageband in the dock?

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/ical.html

arn
Feb 6, 2007, 11:20 PM
All that means is that Apple will probably have released the iPhone sometime before June 15th. Could be the morning of the 15th, could be tomorrow. They just want the FCC to keep things dark for 6 months.

Edit: Come to think of it, that may not even be related to iPhone....

Please direct all discussion on that topic to:
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/06/apple-iphone-on-june-15th/

arn

gauchogolfer
Feb 6, 2007, 11:22 PM
I can remember if there were videos there either. One thing I am curious about though is, What is that icon between Keynote and Garageband in the dock?

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/ical.html

Looks like the Final Cut icon to me.

polyesterlester
Feb 6, 2007, 11:23 PM
I can remember if there were videos there either. One thing I am curious about though is, What is that icon between Keynote and Garageband in the dock?

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/ical.html

That would be Final Cut Pro.

Edit: Damn, gauchogolfer beat me to it.

Chundles
Feb 6, 2007, 11:23 PM
I can remember if there were videos there either. One thing I am curious about though is, What is that icon between Keynote and Garageband in the dock?

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/ical.html

That's Final Cut I think, something like that. Nothing new though.

XeRXeS-TCN
Feb 6, 2007, 11:26 PM
Just got the invite myself, there does seem to be a distinctly Time Machine / Leopard theme to it which does to some extent imply that it will be unveiled at that point.. though that's hardly a guarantee, and I hope that it will be out sooner than that. I think a couple of weeks is stretching it a bit, but there's definitely a good possibility it will be out in a couple of months.

Still though, not the end of the world one way or the other ;)

Krevnik
Feb 6, 2007, 11:28 PM
Save the cheerleader. Save the world. :)

These Apple marketers must be fans of Heroes. So it begs the question why they chose to go with the Time Machine theme.

"Save the Date" has been used by Apple ever since I signed up back in 2000/2001. It isn't a Heroes reference.

As for using Time Machine as the visual style, WWDC this year is going to be about Leopard and using it. One of the new things in Leopard is Time Machine, and developers can plug into it. Better than advertising with widgets which isn't a new, exciting technology this year.

solvs
Feb 6, 2007, 11:31 PM
So yeah, now you know.

Well, knowing is half the battle. (http://www.joeheadquarters.com/joeendings.shtml)

Leopard isn't ready yet. Nowhere close. At least not the one I've used. I'd rather they take their time and get it right.

kcmac
Feb 6, 2007, 11:32 PM
Coolioliest invite ever. Wishing Apple could make the Time Machine zoom INTO the future. Come on June.

Peace
Feb 6, 2007, 11:39 PM
Ya I just got my invite also.
While the graphic kinda sorta implies Leopard in June I find it odd that Leopard isn't mentioned at all.

Who knows!

They have me baffled from what I know.

start the jokes now :)

powermac_daddy
Feb 6, 2007, 11:40 PM
start from today. save $20 daily. get ready for the next MacBook Pro with OX 10.5.

- with LED monitor?
- up to 4G - 6G of ram?
- 512MB of video ram?
- more???

reckless_0001
Feb 6, 2007, 11:44 PM
Looks like the Final Cut icon to me.

Oops, my bad. I knew that too. Must be time to sleep.

holamiamigos
Feb 6, 2007, 11:45 PM
hey guys only 124 more days to June 11!!!!!

iPodAddict
Feb 6, 2007, 11:52 PM
Friend of a friend... gotta love it.

How'd you go from Leopard arriving "some time before April" to February 20th?

I've bookmarked your reply to this post. In 14 days we'll see how right you are. On the off-chance that you're wrong, can we expect a retraction?

Personally I'd rather Leopard come out when it's DONE, as bug-less as possible. It shouldn't be rushed to the masses just to satisfy overzealous Macophiles.

Well, the February 20th date is based on an Apple Recon article. (http://applerecon.com/2007/01/23/apple-special-event-on-february-20/) From what my "friend of a friend" has told me, who also knew there was going to be no iLife or iWork at Macworld, Leopard is essentially complete. The stuff they're seeding to developers lacks some things that we won't see until it's officially unveiled. I'm not sure about the Video iPod, but it would be a nice accessory to a simple OS announcement, and that's why I mention it. I would say the only thing to hold me to is Leopard on the 20th. That's just a hunch, though, and I have nothing to back it up other than the Apple Recon article. As far as the iPod goes, I simply think the technology is there and the iPod line needs a refresh.

If the February 20th thing is true, count on invites going out to press on the 13th. When the Mac Mini and the iPod Hi-Fi were announced, the invites were sent out exactly one week prior.

Peace
Feb 7, 2007, 12:06 AM
Well, the February 20th date is based on an Apple Recon article. (http://applerecon.com/2007/01/23/apple-special-event-on-february-20/) From what my "friend of a friend" has told me, who also knew there was going to be no iLife or iWork at Macworld, Leopard is essentially complete. The stuff they're seeding to developers lacks some things that we won't see until it's officially unveiled. I'm not sure about the Video iPod, but it would be a nice accessory to a simple OS announcement, and that's why I mention it. I would say the only thing to hold me to is Leopard on the 20th. That's just a hunch, though, and I have nothing to back it up other than the Apple Recon article. As far as the iPod goes, I simply think the technology is there and the iPod line needs a refresh.

If the February 20th thing is true, count on invites going out to press on the 13th. When the Mac Mini and the iPod Hi-Fi were announced, the invites were sent out exactly one week prior.

So you're basing your whole theory on a rumor site?

Man..

I will say from my vantage point Apple is definitely holding out certain parts of Leopard from developers.I can see them.

Leoff
Feb 7, 2007, 12:06 AM
Well, the February 20th date is based on an Apple Recon article. (http://applerecon.com/2007/01/23/apple-special-event-on-february-20/) From what my "friend of a friend" has told me, who also knew there was going to be no iLife or iWork at Macworld, Leopard is essentially complete. The stuff they're seeding to developers lacks some things that we won't see until it's officially unveiled. I'm not sure about the Video iPod, but it would be a nice accessory to a simple OS announcement, and that's why I mention it. I would say the only thing to hold me to is Leopard on the 20th. That's just a hunch, though, and I have nothing to back it up other than the Apple Recon article. As far as the iPod goes, I simply think the technology is there and the iPod line needs a refresh.

If the February 20th thing is true, count on invites going out to press on the 13th. When the Mac Mini and the iPod Hi-Fi were announced, the invites were sent out exactly one week prior.

OK, fair enough. Good guesses. BUT, my thinking is that, this being a Developer's conference, and the invitation being formatted the way it is, Leopard is at least going to be previewed at the conference, if not released.

Possible new Macs, but with the recent huge announcements of the iPhone and AppleTV, I doubt we'll see any iPod updates/releases at the conference. Apple has started to separate it's "Mac" from it's "iPod" announcements, and the Developer's conference usually is more Mac-based.

psingh01
Feb 7, 2007, 12:08 AM
I think this pretty much settles it. If nothing happens on the 20th, people should just assume it won't be released until WWDC.....:(

twoodcc
Feb 7, 2007, 12:09 AM
i'm glad to say that i got this email. can't wait!:apple:

iJawn108
Feb 7, 2007, 12:10 AM
I never used to get these apple mails... but tonight i did. I guess it's cause I signed up as a dev.

yg17
Feb 7, 2007, 12:29 AM
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

WTF!!! I DON'T WANT TO WAIT UNTIL JUNE!!! WHY TELL ME NOW!!! I'm so depressed...

10.5 better be released before that, or I won't be happy!! I would of rather of not known and been excited when it was closer... I know you have to tell people about it early so people can get there but.... nothing... I just love apple so much I don't want to wait for anything.... I'm sorry Steve... I'm not mad at you... I'll just wait...

The Stig

Some say that he is a Mac user, and that if Leopard gets delayed, he will go batsh*t insane on a forum....all we know, is he's called the Stig!

iMacZealot
Feb 7, 2007, 12:32 AM
Remember, though, that Tiger was promised in 1H of 2005, and it came out in late April....about six weeks before WWDC. To my memory, it was barely even talked about at WWDC2005, but, of course, that was a once in a lifetime keynote.

I still say Leopard is unleashed in Late March/Early-mid April. Mark my words.

Krevnik
Feb 7, 2007, 12:34 AM
OK, fair enough. Good guesses. BUT, my thinking is that, this being a Developer's conference, and the invitation being formatted the way it is, Leopard is at least going to be previewed at the conference, if not released.

Even if Leopard is released before WWDC, there is gonna be a LOT of content to cover that people will have questions about. Even with the current Leopard documentation, some of the new security features aren't even covered yet, but we know they exist. Unless Apple suddenly makes reams of documentation appear out of thin air, a week is not even gonna be enough when WWDC rolls around.

Tejasfilm
Feb 7, 2007, 12:40 AM
This is coming from a friend whose a developer, iPhone around April. He's also told me that he got to play around with an iPhone as well and there's a few thing's (widgets) that they held back from the keynote. SO I'm counting on at least a 5 more icons/widgets to be in the release versions of the iPhone. As far as Leopard he's told me that it's not 100%, but that also could be on the fact that Apple's holding back from the developers on purpose. jsut my two cents.

imacdaddy
Feb 7, 2007, 12:40 AM
and take us back in time to forget about Apple and the past 30 years of extrodinary achievements. Forget that Apple ever existed! Moreover, forget about all the stresses and agony of waiting for the next Apple product. To save us all from further experiencing the burdens and hardships. Steve and Co. invented a true Time Machine.

dashiel
Feb 7, 2007, 12:45 AM
Well, the February 20th date is based on an Apple Recon article. (http://applerecon.com/2007/01/23/apple-special-event-on-february-20/) From what my "friend of a friend" has told me, who also knew there was going to be no iLife or iWork at Macworld, Leopard is essentially complete. The stuff they're seeding to developers lacks some things that we won't see until it's officially unveiled. I'm not sure about the Video iPod, but it would be a nice accessory to a simple OS announcement, and that's why I mention it. I would say the only thing to hold me to is Leopard on the 20th. That's just a hunch, though, and I have nothing to back it up other than the Apple Recon article. As far as the iPod goes, I simply think the technology is there and the iPod line needs a refresh..


i'm calling BS. leopard builds are far from complete we haven't even seen an RC1 yet let alone a final candidate or gold master. then there's the production and delivery of media. if a GM were built today we wouldn't see leopard until march.

personally i'm 50/50 on leopard being released before WWDC. if it does come pre-WWDC then i'm putting money on jobs announcing some sore of dev environment for the iphone -- probably widgets only, no full fledged apps to begin with.

Gosh
Feb 7, 2007, 12:45 AM
My first thought was that the spacing between the calendar pages was artificially deep and obviously indicating a culmination of events arriving at June.

Expect somthing new every month from now til then! Then maybe in June it might be a job done!!!:apple:

iMacZealot
Feb 7, 2007, 01:01 AM
Well, gosh, Gosh, great observation!

(Sorry, I just couldn't help myself from saying "gosh, Gosh". :) )

appleguy
Feb 7, 2007, 01:01 AM
maybe this refers to 10.6 and Time Machine 2
Save the Date.
where you can go back in time and take the foot away from your mouth before you stick it in.
a great tool most geeks need :p

avkills
Feb 7, 2007, 01:10 AM
I really hope the new window theme does not look like those calendar windows in that image.

The black bubble looking sliders I could deal with, but they need to simplify the interface in my opinion. Something like mail, but universal across all general Apple apps like the Finder, Mail, iChat, iTunes, etc etc.

-mark

eluk
Feb 7, 2007, 01:12 AM
This is great. I can now reset my expectation to mid-June and relax for a couple of months.

iMacZealot
Feb 7, 2007, 01:14 AM
That's what I've always thought since Tiger Mail and iTunes 5 were released. I've downloaded UNO, which pretty much does that system-wide, but it doesn't change the font colors, so it's hard to read brushed metal windows.

Speaking of brushed metal, I think it's starting to look obsolete. I think it will be gone in all of Leopard by release because I think the fact that iChat has gone from Brushed Metal to aluminum in the previews of Leopard foreshadow this transition.

Some_Big_Spoon
Feb 7, 2007, 01:20 AM
Ugh, I hope don't have to wait that long for 10.5. I imagine they could release it earlier since they'd hold WWDC either way, but this invite makes me think we'll get it then. Oh well, we wait and see.

iMacZealot
Feb 7, 2007, 01:27 AM
As long as it comes on my new MacBook (which I'll probably get in August or September), I'm happy. I'm thinking about upgrading my iMac G5, but I still don't know how much it will benefit me.

Maynerd
Feb 7, 2007, 01:37 AM
I just got my first mac so I can wait till June :)

syklee26
Feb 7, 2007, 01:40 AM
maybe it's just me but I actually don't expect the new touch screen wide screen video screen whatever screen iPod to arrive before iPhone is launched. My reason would be that touch screen features would be "too cool" to risk losing luster to iPod launch. Remember that iPhone is going to give Apple far more profit than iPod unless Apple prices new iPod back in $499 territory (which i don't see happening).

jhedges3
Feb 7, 2007, 01:56 AM
I know I'm not unique in this (and that it's been said before), but I'm pretty underwhelmed by most of the confirmed 10.5 features. The only things that I can so far imagine actually using are: upgrades to Spotlight (including searches with Boolean operators and searching other people’s computers); some, but certainly not all, of the upgrades for Mail (i.e., notes and to-dos seems cool, but stationery does not); and some, but not all, of the upgrades for iChat (multiple login, tabbed, and desktop sharing good, but couldn’t care less about theater, backdrops, and animated icons).

AnDi86
Feb 7, 2007, 02:20 AM
Some say that he is a Mac user, and that if Leopard gets delayed, he will go batsh*t insane on a forum....all we know, is he's called the Stig!

*GiGGles* :D

Kelmon
Feb 7, 2007, 02:26 AM
Given the relatively little that we know about the new OS from last year, the complete non-mention of it during MacWorld this year and this invitation, I'm not expecting Leopard before WWDC. As best as I can remember we got a pretty good look at previous OS X releases before they actually occurred but yet we next to nothing about Leopard. Given this I have a really hard time believing that Apple is about to unleash a version of the OS that has features that haven't been tested outside of their campus so this either implies that the "Secret Features" don't actually exist or it's not ready for release yet. Given the hoo-ha that a release sans-"secret features" would cause due to last years WWDC presentation it seems reasonable to me to infer that the OS isn't ready and that we won't see it released to retail until a feature-complete version of it has been distributed to testers.

Basically, I can't see Leopard being release this month or really anytime soon so June seems a much better bet. To be honest, I'm not really that bothered...

darwen
Feb 7, 2007, 02:29 AM
Is WWDC expensive...? I think I can go this year.

Chupa Chupa
Feb 7, 2007, 02:30 AM
So timeline: February 20th is Leopard, iLife, iWork, and Video iPod. WWDC is iPhone, new Mac(s) and um... ponies. iPonies.

Mark my words, this is what will happen (maybe not the iPonies though)


U R Dreaming. Apple might announce Leopard on Feb 20 but it's not shipping until late spring...May or June. We are 1/4 way done w/ Feb and Leopard is not even close to being GM yet. Heck 10.4.9 isn't even out.

And unless Apple decides to open up the iPhone to developers there is no reason to discuss iPhone @ WWDC. I think we will see new Macs at WWDC, but that is obvious given Intel's roadmap. WWDC is going to be all about 10.5.

Will_reed
Feb 7, 2007, 02:38 AM
Could this be a sneak peak of the new lumuis look?

MacsAttack
Feb 7, 2007, 02:45 AM
This is bullcrap. I'm not waiting until friggin June for Leopard. Not happening.

My friend that works for Apple has a friend that works in software down on the Loop and from what he's telling me, Leopard is not far off. He doesn't go into specifics, but it's definitely looking like some time before April. As for an early iPhone release, who knows. I would like to see it in April too, but if that happened, what would they announce at WWDC? Maybe a new Mac design?

Personally, I still have my heart set on a February event for Leopard, iLife, iWork and possibly a "One more thing..." wide-screen iPod.

So timeline: February 28th is Leopard, iLife, iWork, and Video iPod. WWDC is iPhone, new Mac(s) and um... ponies. iPonies.

Mark my words, this is what will happen (maybe not the iPonies though)


THink we are going to see a preview of the final Leopard real soon. I'm signed up to ADC and just reveived this...


Information, Insight, In person.

Reserve your spot at the upcoming Leopard Tech Talk.

spend a day with Apple engineers and experts, and get all the latest details about the upcoming release of Mac OS X Leopard. Tech Talks feature in-depth presentations, demonstrations, and Q&A — live and in person. Attendance is free, but space is limited.So register today.

London. UK 20/2



Sounds like a "feature-complete" version is due soon. Figure launch 6 to 8 weeks later. I'm still pegging it at April 24th.

Shanesan
Feb 7, 2007, 02:47 AM
Given the relatively little that we know about the new OS from last year, the complete non-mention of it during MacWorld this year and this invitation, I'm not expecting Leopard before WWDC. As best as I can remember we got a pretty good look at previous OS X releases before they actually occurred but yet we next to nothing about Leopard. Given this I have a really hard time believing that Apple is about to unleash a version of the OS that has features that haven't been tested outside of their campus so this either implies that the "Secret Features" don't actually exist or it's not ready for release yet.

Remember the whole widgets/gadgets thing? I think Jobs is waiting until the very last minute (patent process, etc?) so something like that doesn't just pop up in a Windows-based system anytime soon.

Gates has stolen most everything his whole life, so I wouldn't be suprised...

Evangelion
Feb 7, 2007, 03:51 AM
Is WWDC expensive...? I think I can go this year.

Are you a developer? If not, there's little reason for you to go there.

mark88
Feb 7, 2007, 03:56 AM
I'd say that's the new UI style for brushed metal windows.

iMikeT
Feb 7, 2007, 04:07 AM
I can't wait!

a456
Feb 7, 2007, 04:11 AM
I'm assuming that the grey part of the calendar is what the windows will look like.

I hope not. They add colour to their iPods only to take it out of their OS. How dull is the whole screen going to look if it's all black and grey. Keep the blue.


Gates has stolen most everything his whole life, so I wouldn't be suprised...

I wonder what he was like at school - I can imagine - but it would be great to see some comments from his classmates.

The Scotsman
Feb 7, 2007, 04:20 AM
I am thinking, Ok no I am hoping that the invite is not pointing to a leapord release at wwdc. I am hoping it is just quirky wording and using time machine and "save the date" is just good advertising. From what I have read (here and other sites) is that leapord sounds nearly complete. The last seed distributed sounded like it was nearly a full, complete and bug free OS. I like some other guys on here think April release sounds right. If iLife07 and iWork07 is leapord dependant June is late and they need to call it iLife07 and a half.

I also agree with one guy (posted earlier) it would be detrimental to apple to launch true video iPod before phone. I think people will buy the phone on the wow factor but might find it does not replace their current high capacity iPod and therefore will buy iPod after. If people buy iPod first they might just find they do not need the iPhone. I feel myself I would be in this catagory. I do not want to carry true video iPod and iPhone together. Although both would be slim and sexy they are still two lumps in my pocket.

xUKHCx
Feb 7, 2007, 04:43 AM
Information, Insight, In person.

Reserve your spot at the upcoming Leopard Tech Talk.

spend a day with Apple engineers and experts, and get all the latest details about the upcoming release of Mac OS X Leopard. Tech Talks feature in-depth presentations, demonstrations, and Q&A — live and in person. Attendance is free, but space is limited.So register today.

London. UK 20/2

I got the same email but mine has 28/2, a typo? or 2 dates?

MacsAttack
Feb 7, 2007, 04:59 AM
I got the same email but mine has 28/2, a typo? or 2 dates?

Typo. :D 28/2

Stridder44
Feb 7, 2007, 05:23 AM
Uh, what does WWDC have to do with the release of Leopard? They're two separate things. Tiger was released in "spring" 2005 (late April), and WWDC'05 was also in "spring" 2005 (early June). The presumption has long been that, like two years ago, the new operating system would be available long before WWDC. There is nothing to contradict that as yet.


You better be right. If not, I hope there's at least new iPods or something.

Stridder44
Feb 7, 2007, 05:26 AM
:mad:

WTF!!! I DON'T WANT TO WAIT UNTIL JUNE!!! WHY TELL ME NOW!!! I'm so depressed...

10.5 better be released before that, or I won't be happy!! I would of rather of not known and been excited when it was closer... I know you have to tell people about it early so people can get there but.... nothing... I just love apple so much I don't want to wait for anything.... I'm sorry Steve... I'm not mad at you... I'll just wait...

The Stig

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41738000/jpg/_41738046_prozac_spl.jpg

Will_reed
Feb 7, 2007, 05:49 AM
I wonder what he was like at school - I can imagine - but it would be great to see some comments from his classmates.

Aparently he spent alot of time playing poker

JRM PowerPod
Feb 7, 2007, 06:02 AM
start from today. save $20 daily. get ready for the next MacBook Pro with OX 10.5.

- with LED monitor?
- up to 4G - 6G of ram?
- 512MB of video ram?
- more???

I haven't posted in a while, but i will now

that would whoop arse

+optional bluray

longsilver
Feb 7, 2007, 06:33 AM
I think summer starts at the solstice-- June 20 or 21.

But the solstice is also known as midsummer (as in "A Midsummer Night's Dream"), which rather suggests it's in the middle of summer not at the start of summer. For me, summer starts on May 1st at the latest, but then it doesn't really matter what I or you think about when spring ends and summer starts: what does Steve Jobs think?

tuftywhite
Feb 7, 2007, 06:52 AM
I'm looking forward to those iPonies!

BenRoethig
Feb 7, 2007, 07:02 AM
If Leopard is released in June, it wouldn't be the first time Apple held something back for dramatic effect. Still, it's not a good idea to let Vista run wild for six months.

jhero
Feb 7, 2007, 07:14 AM
Save the cheerleader. Save the world. :)

These Apple marketers must be fans of Heroes. So it begs the question why they chose to go with the Time Machine theme.

hiiiiiro!

wakerider017
Feb 7, 2007, 07:21 AM
More info about WWDC 2007 Here:

http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/

spyderracer393
Feb 7, 2007, 07:42 AM
...I bet thats what the calendar widget looks like in leopard.

a456
Feb 7, 2007, 07:43 AM
it's not a good idea to let Vista run wild for six months.

Why not? Let the inevitable horror stories come into the public domain. Let the media carry on advertising OS X every time there is a report on Vista, sell a few (thousand) more Macs and then release Leopard.

BTW two things: First, the flyer for the WWDC bears a striking resemblance to the spoof Moscone Center invite circulated at the beginning of the month - begging the question, is there a space theme going on and did someone get their hands on an early mock-up intended to advertise a later (perhaps 20th Feb?) event and send it out. Second, has anyone seen this freeverse software Think? (http://www.freeverse.com/think/) It looks like this could be along the same thought lines as Apple's rumoured illuminous UI. Not only that but it's free. I haven't downloaded it yet myself, but would be interested to here how it runs.

Xyl
Feb 7, 2007, 07:51 AM
Gates has stolen most everything his whole life, so I wouldn't be suprised...

That's why we have "Save the date." I think Steve will take us back in time and stop Bill. :eek:

Ktulu
Feb 7, 2007, 08:00 AM
I can remember if there were videos there either. One thing I am curious about though is, What is that icon between Keynote and Garageband in the dock?

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/ical.html

What is more interesting is the iCal icon in the dock doesn't have a triangle under it, even though the image shows it running. i know it could have easily been PSed with the same basic desktop as a background. But that seems to be a lack of attention to detail.

SheriffParker
Feb 7, 2007, 08:02 AM
I hope not. They add colour to their iPods only to take it out of their OS. How dull is the whole screen going to look if it's all black and grey. Keep the blue.

Actually you can take the blue out of 10.4.x pretty easily.

System Preferences -> Appearance -> change blue to graphite.

I have my computer set to graphite and I think it looks way better. The blue looks like a toy computer or some silly jelly beans or something. And there is still plenty of color on the screen. So I for one would be happy to see those as the new window look. They look sweet! :D

SiliconAddict
Feb 7, 2007, 08:05 AM
Edit: Come to think of it, that may not even be related to iPhone....

Highly unlikely. The only other thing this would pertain to would be :apple: TV and that will be out this month.

If Leopard is released in June, it wouldn't be the first time Apple held something back for dramatic effect. Still, it's not a good idea to let Vista run wild for six months.

Like any PC user cares. Seriously. Your average PC user isn't going to go out and blow at minimum half a grand for an OS upgrade. Most Windows systems that need some form of upgrade to run Vista need something in the realm of a 512MB RAM upgrade at most. Memory + Vista is still cheaper then "upgrading" to OS X. For those who are actually looking to upgrade their entire system, sure. It will be tempting. For those who simply want to upgrade their OS.....as soon as they find out they need to buy a new system.....http://home.comcast.net/~jonnormand/icons/posting.php_files/rotfl.gif

Edit: That being said Vista is going to take at LEAST 6 months for MS to shake the bugs out of it. How long did it take Apple to get 10.1 out?

mcorange
Feb 7, 2007, 08:24 AM
Summer doesn't begin until the Summer Solstice (longest day of the year) when the pole is at it's closest to the sun.



You do realize that the earth is actually further away from the sun in the northen hemisphere summertime? So, summer solstice is actually when the northern pole is farthest away from the sun. And secondly, summer solstice is absolutely in the middle of the summer, saying this is beginning of summer is like saying winter starts at Dec. 21st. And we all know that's wrong.

steve_hill4
Feb 7, 2007, 08:26 AM
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41738000/jpg/_41738046_prozac_spl.jpg

Do those pills say Vista on them? ;)

Anyway, got the email too. My first thought was WWDC will bring Leopard out, after all it is still Spring, just. However, I do think that it will come out before then still, possibly even before the end of the month with :apple: tv, iLife and iWork all announced at the same time too. The portables and desktops have not been upgraded in a reasonably long time, to wait until June would mean some models have been out for over a year, others close to. February launch would enable them to slowly bring out new models of each, finishing with WWDC.

For WWDC 07, I'd like a mention of the iPhone starting to ship and Apple producing more multi-touch products. We have in development a product called MacSlab™, which is a rugged tablet Mac and comes in sizes from 7" to 23", (maybe 4 sizes in all). Medical apps and such need to be developed for our January launch.

Chundles
Feb 7, 2007, 08:39 AM
You do realize that the earth is actually further away from the sun in the northen hemisphere summertime? So, summer solstice is actually when the northern pole is farthest away from the sun. And secondly, summer solstice is absolutely in the middle of the summer, saying this is beginning of summer is like saying winter starts at Dec. 21st. And we all know that's wrong.

No, winter does start in the northern hemisphere on December 21st. It gets colder from then because there's about a 4 week lag in the Earth's ability to heat up or cool down.

When the northern pole is farthest from the sun it's winter, there is no sunlight at the north pole when it's pointing away from the sun.

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/egifs/Earthseasons.GIF

Here's a picture - now the Earth's orientation stays the same so (for the northern hemisphere) in Summer the axis of rotation points towards the sun (as shown on the right) in Winter the axis points away from the sun. This occurs around the 21st of June for Summer and 21st December for Winter. The shortest day of the year is the start of winter and the earth continues to cool despite that days lengthening after the solstice due to the "lag time" between the Earth receiving the least amount of heat and it finally radiating that little heat out into space.

The summer and winter solstice mark the beginning of the season they refer to. They are the longest and the shortest days of the year respectively.

Sorry mate but apart from the Earth being farther from the sun in the northern summer - which is true but the pole still points towards the sun at this time and as such the north receives more sun than the south - you're incorrect. Seasons are a result of the tilt of the Earth's rotational axis, not the distance of the planet from the sun.

brianus
Feb 7, 2007, 08:40 AM
Do those pills say Vista on them? ;)
The portables and desktops have not been upgraded in a reasonably long time, to wait until June would mean some models have been out for over a year, others close to. February launch would enable them to slowly bring out new models of each, finishing with WWDC.

Not so; the entire line was updated between August and November of last year. That would mean 6-month refreshes, were they scheduled as such, would be coming between February and May -- perfect for the expected Leopard launch, sometime in March or April.


For WWDC 07, I'd like a mention of the iPhone starting to ship and Apple producing more multi-touch products. We have in development a product called MacSlab™, which is a rugged tablet Mac and comes in sizes from 7" to 23", (maybe 4 sizes in all). Medical apps and such need to be developed for our January launch.

Uh.. huh...

elguille
Feb 7, 2007, 08:45 AM
I can remember if there were videos there either. One thing I am curious about though is, What is that icon between Keynote and Garageband in the dock?

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/ical.html

its Final Cut Pro (5.1)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/183/382750637_5962d2c644.jpg?v=0

;)

d.know
Feb 7, 2007, 08:46 AM
In my opinion Apple should start very soon to sell its hardware with Leopard or, at least, with Tiger PLUS a free upgrade to Leopard, if it's to belaunched in June.

Otherwise Apple will loose too many sales. I will not buy a new Mac mini - even if a new version comes out next week - if I don't get Leopard with it or, at least, if I don't have a free upgrade to Leopard.

Would you buy a new hardware knowing that the new software will be released in few weeks/months?

This means, in terms of maktering: either Leopard released sooner than June or Leopard released in June with free upgrades in the meanwhile. Otherwise: no hardware sales for the next 4 months, and I don't think that Apple (like any other company) could afford that.

But, apart from this easy marketing stuff... let's try to think different: in June Jobs announces that Leopard will retail for $ 199, will include ILife'07 and... will boot on any intel-based PC!!!

Bye Bye Vistaaaa!!

Let's try again to conquer the world, this time starting from the software.

Porchland
Feb 7, 2007, 08:49 AM
...come together...

Absolutely intentional.

Even if the Beatles announcement comes before June, you're going to hear about it at WWDC.

Chundles
Feb 7, 2007, 08:50 AM
In my opinion Apple should start very soon to sell its hardware with Leopard or, at least, with Tiger PLUS a free upgrade to Leopard, if it's to belaunched in June.

Otherwise Apple will loose too many sales. I will not buy a new Mac mini - even if a new version comes out next week - if I don't get Leopard with it or, at least, if I don't have a free upgrade to Leopard.

Would you buy a new hardware knowing that the new software will be released in few weeks/months?

This means, in terms of maktering: either Leopard released sooner than June or Leopard released in June with free upgrades in the meanwhile. Otherwise: no hardware sales for the next 4 months, and I don't think that Apple (like any other company) could afford that.

But, apart from this easy marketing stuff... let's try to think different: in June Jobs announces that Leopard will retail for $ 199, will include ILife'07 and... will boot on any intel-based PC!!!

Bye Bye Vistaaaa!!

Let's try again to conquer the world, this time starting from the software.

2 Weeks.

The last two OSX releases have seen a 2 week gap between the announcement of the shipping date and the OS going on sale. Macs bought within this two week period were eligible for a free upgrade to the new version.

Anything prior to the shipping announcement were not eligible.

mcorange
Feb 7, 2007, 08:53 AM
No, winter does start in the northern hemisphere on December 21st. It gets colder from then because there's about a 4 week lag in the Earth's ability to heat up or cool down.

When the northern pole is farthest from the sun it's winter, there is no sunlight at the north pole when it's pointing away from the sun.



You forget the fact that earths orbit is slightly elliptical, and at the northern hemisphere summer the earth IS further away from the sun.

Orbits were first analyzed mathematically by Johannes Kepler who formulated his results in his three laws of planetary motion. First, he found that the orbits of the planets in our solar system are elliptical, not circular (or epicyclic), as had previously been believed, and that the sun is not located at the center of the orbits, but rather at one focus. (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_Orbit)

Secondly, earths weather differs from place to place. However, I'll accept that I was wrong about the term "summer". However, the concept is colored by cultures other than my own. Here in Iceland first day of summer is in the end of April, marking a moment from which the weather gets better week by week, and climaxing around summer solstice.

EDIT: I completed reading your reply and found that I am telling you nothing new. However, the earth is further away than so that the earths tilt would make the northern pole closer to the sun than at winter. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of kilometers differences....not just hundreds.

Veracon
Feb 7, 2007, 08:58 AM
What is more interesting is the iCal icon in the dock doesn't have a triangle under it, even though the image shows it running. i know it could have easily been PSed with the same basic desktop as a background. But that seems to be a lack of attention to detail.
Good observation, bloopers are always interesting.

Clive At Five
Feb 7, 2007, 08:59 AM
Then as the pole starts to swing away from the sun the days get shorter until the orientation of the poles is at a tangent to our orbit - these are the vernal/autumnal equinoxes when the length of daylight and night is exactly the same.

I hate to be a total nerd but the "orientation of the poles," or as we physicists call it, the "axis," is ALWAYS at tangent to the orbit, three-dimensionally (Tangent means it touches the line drawn by the orbit in exactly one point).

What you meant to say was that the projection of the axis onto the two-dimensional plane of the orbit is tangent to the orbit.

*removes thick-rimmed glasses and wipes forehead*

whew.

-Clive

Chundles
Feb 7, 2007, 09:02 AM
You forget the fact that earths orbit is slightly elliptical, and at the northern hemisphere summer the earth IS further away from the sun.



Secondly, earths weather differs from place to place. However, I'll accept that I was wrong about the term "summer". However, the concept is colored by cultures other than my own. Here in Iceland first day of summer is in the end of April, marking a moment from which the weather gets better week by week, and climaxing around summer solstice.

EDIT: I completed reading your reply and found that I am telling you nothing new. However, the earth is further away than so that the earths tilt would make the northern pole closer to the sun than at winter. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of kilometers differences....not just hundreds.

Ah. Fair enough about the cultural differences in what constitutes the start of the season. I was referring to meteorological seasons which begin on either an equinox or a solstice. They're the most commonly used definition but if your culture has a different tradition then that's cool.

Yes the Earth does vary in it's distance from the sun (spent a lot of time studying this stuff in Uni) but the seasons are purely due to the tilt of the Earth not its distance from the sun as a whole. The pole may be physically closer in Winter but it's pointing away from the sun - it gets no sunlight and thus no heat ie. Winter.

It's all about the tilt.

I hate to be a total nerd but the "orientation of the poles," or as we physicists call it, the "axis," is ALWAYS at tangent to the orbit, three-dimensionally (Tangent means it touches the line drawn by the orbit in exactly one point).

What you meant to say was that the projection of the axis onto the two-dimensional plane of the orbit is tangent to the orbit.

*removes thick-rimmed glasses and wipes forehead*

whew.

-Clive

Well der, Mr. Pedantic. :p ;)

Oh, your biro is leaking into your pocket protector.

crudsponge
Feb 7, 2007, 09:11 AM
I firmly believe that 'Save The Date' is in reference to Apple Inc and Apple Corps. It's really ironic that this week Apple Inc announced that the two Apple's have put their difference aside, in one way or another. (so obviously something is going to happen next, right?) Ok... go back to January 9, 2007 Macworld Conference & Expo... everyone noticed how Steve kept showing the Sgt. Peppers album. (which was interesting).
Now consider this... June 2007 will be the 40 year anniversary of the Release of 'Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band'
Now... suddently this week Apple is teasing us with 'Save the Day'.. which happens to be the same month that Sgt. Peppers was released 40 years ago.

I could be wrong... but i think something (maybe not the entire event) will deal with Apple(s) and Sgt Peppers. Finally. 'Save the Day'

-my thoughts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sgt._Pepper%27s_Lonely_Hearts_Club_Band

lazydog
Feb 7, 2007, 09:14 AM
I hate to be a total nerd but the "orientation of the poles," or as we physicists call it, the "axis," is ALWAYS at tangent to the orbit, three-dimensionally (Tangent means it touches the line drawn by the orbit in exactly one point).

What you meant to say was that the projection of the axis onto the two-dimensional plane of the orbit is tangent to the orbit.

*removes thick-rimmed glasses and wipes forehead*

whew.

-Clive


Orbital precession means that the projection of the axis isn't tangent to the orbit.

b e n

Chundles
Feb 7, 2007, 09:15 AM
I firmly believe that 'Save The Date' is in reference to Apple Inc and Apple Corps. It's really ironic that this week Apple Inc announced that the two Apple's have put their difference aside, in one way or another. (so obviously something is going to happen next, right?) Ok... go back to January 9, 2007 Macworld Conference & Expo... everyone noticed how Steve kept showing the Sgt. Peppers album. (which was interesting).
Now consider this... June 2007 will be the 40 year anniversary of the Release of 'Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band'
Now... suddently this week Apple is teasing us with 'Save the Day'.. which happens to be the same month that Sgt. Peppers was released 40 yeas ago.

I could be wrong... but i think something (maybe not the entire event) will deal with Apple(s) and Sgt Peppers. Finally. 'Save the Day'

-my thoughts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sgt._Pepper%27s_Lonely_Hearts_Club_Band

Sorry mate, WWDC is no place for a big iTunes/Beatles announcement. The World Wide Developers Conference is the biggest Apple nerd-fest of the
year. It's strictly for Apple software developers and professionals.

Anything that doesn't have "Pro" in the name is unlikely to get a mention in the Keynote.

We're talking a keynote full of words like "branch prediction" "pre-fetching" and "64bit address space."

The closest Sgt. Peppers might get to the WWDC is that it could be some of the pre and post show music played over the PA.

badcrumble
Feb 7, 2007, 09:16 AM
I think that (possibly fake) Feb 20th invite has something very interesting in common with this WWDC announcement: the emphasis on outer space. This announcement is just showing something similar to the Time Machine UI of course, but notice that it says something about "the Mac universe."

I am beginning to suspect that Apple, with the use of Core Animation technology, is beginning to work on a spatial (i. e. three-dimensional to some degree) UI. I'm not necessarily saying that'll be premiered during Leopard, but the Mac OS X Finder (drop shadows, Expose, etc.) has long been approaching a more spatial sense of how you interact with your windows. I don't think Leopard will have such a drastic interface redesign, but I may be wrong. Apple's certainly giving a lot of attention to the idea of outer space recently.

crudsponge
Feb 7, 2007, 09:17 AM
if this was true (as i stated) why wouldn't Apple just release the Beatles stuff now (or why didn't they release it at the Super Bowl?) SIMPLE...
Paul McCartney is going through a major divorce RIGHT now, and his stupid wife is sueing him for everything he has. So... right now Paul McCartney is freezing all his incoming finances until everything is settled. (i actually read that recently) So... it would make sense for Apple to wait a few months. Plus... Apple can now focus back to AppleTV (to be shipped this month), and more importantly... Leopard.

-my thoughts.

L3X
Feb 7, 2007, 09:31 AM
IT'S A FAKE...i can't believe everyone believes this invite. :rolleyes: We all know that 10.5 will be out before June, right?!?!?!

Come on guys, pray with me!!!.....

Chundles
Feb 7, 2007, 09:34 AM
IT'S A FAKE...i can't believe everyone believes this invite. We all know that 10.5 will be out before June, right?!?!?!

Come on guys, pray with me!!!.....

Eh? You mean the invite we (yes me too) all got through our Apple Developer Connection mailing list?

It's not a fake, most definitely not. It's not even in doubt, this is an Apple email send out to all those who have signed onto the Apple Developer Connection. I got mine this morning.

But yes, 10.5 will be out before June, why would you think otherwise?

BigEvan23
Feb 7, 2007, 09:42 AM
Summer doesn't begin until the Summer Solstice (longest day of the year) when the pole is at it's closest to the sun.

This occurs in the northern hemisphere around the 3rd week of June and in the southern hemisphere where I am in the 3rd week of December.

So while it's convenient for us to think of the seasons starting and ending with the months the actual seasons don't quite behave the way we think.

Then as the pole starts to swing away from the sun the days get shorter until the orientation of the poles is at a tangent to our orbit - these are the vernal/autumnal equinoxes when the length of daylight and night is exactly the same. This occurs during the 3rd week of march for the northern spring/southern autumn and the 3rd week of september for the northern autumn/southern spring.

So yeah, now you know.

Every time I start thinking that I'm moderately cool, someone comes around and makes a post like that... in a forum I closely follow...and I realize that I'm just a loser trapped in some cool guys body.

steve_hill4
Feb 7, 2007, 09:49 AM
Eh? You mean the invite we (yes me too) all got through our Apple Developer Connection mailing list?

It's not a fake, most definitely not. It's not even in doubt, this is an Apple email send out to all those who have signed onto the Apple Developer Connection. I got mine this morning.

But yes, 10.5 will be out before June, why would you think otherwise?

Chundles, I think your sarcasm detector needs re-calibrating.;)

DVNIEL
Feb 7, 2007, 09:58 AM
Chundles, I think your sarcasm detector needs re-calibrating.;)

A scene from The Simpsons:

Lyndsey Nagle: Do I detect a note of sarcasm?
Frink (Scientist): (With sarcasm detector) Are you kidding? This baby is off
the charts...... mm-hai.
Comic Book Guy: A sarcasm detector, that's a real useful invention.
**Sarcasm detector explodes**

Wild-Bill
Feb 7, 2007, 10:06 AM
I think there will be a lot of unhappy people if Apple waits until WWDC to refresh the Mac Pros, among other things....

8 cores, new and BETTER video card options. I mean, come on already Apple.

odaiwai
Feb 7, 2007, 10:12 AM
There may well be a mention of the Beatles/iTunes at WWDC, but it'll probably be something like an iChat with Paul MacCartney saying that, since the april release of the Beatles entire backlist on iTunes, Sergeant Pepper is now the No.1 album in the UK again, forty years after it's initial release.

Then Ringo will join in with the Yellow Submarine cartoon going as his animated backdrop (y'all remember that from WWDC 06, right?), and say that "it's really, really fab!" before Paul and Ringo demonstrate GarageBand's new network (and time-delay compensation) international Jam feature. (i.e. you can collaborate on sessions live over the internet, and Garageband compensates for the time delay.)

The whole point being to demonstrate that Leopard is completely network transparent and you can share applications and files and screens and *everything* over an iChat session.

space1nvaders
Feb 7, 2007, 10:13 AM
If the Heat go to the Finals again I will definitely be screwed because I have season tickets. NBA Finals are right around that time.

Peace
Feb 7, 2007, 10:15 AM
IMHO the ONLY reason the WWDC was announced yesterday was because ( don't laugh ) the exact dates were leaked earlier.Jobs hates when that happens.It has nothing to do with the deal between the two Apples.

TheSpaz
Feb 7, 2007, 10:18 AM
I was looking again at the preview of leopard on apple's page. Did they use to have a video for every new feature? if they did, some of them , eg Ical, are not there anymore.

I just hope I won't have to buy a new mac after leopard... I just have this (irrational?) feeling that apple's new tricks will stretch my imac...I would hate that.

There was not a video for ALL the features... Core Animation, Spotlight didn't have a video and I don't think iCal was even one of the "features". iCal is probably one of the worst Apps included in OS X... lame.

quigleybc
Feb 7, 2007, 10:18 AM
whatever, I can totally wait.

When Tiger came out there were SO many threads about...wa wa Tiger screwed up this, and Tiger screwed up that....so I don't know what all the rush is about.

For the record my Tiger experience has been smooth sailing from 10.4 on.

Now what about iLife 07....or maybe they should call it iLife 07.5 cuz that's what it's gonna be soon. :rolleyes:

reckless_0001
Feb 7, 2007, 10:22 AM
****
Is the the bottom of http://www.apple.com/ redesigned or am I going crazy? :confused:
****

Leopardish? maybe?

I could have sworn when you hovered over the hotnews headlines before,that they would go white and not gray.

jbh001
Feb 7, 2007, 10:22 AM
Apple. . .has promised a Spring 2007 release.

Spring 2007 means sometime before the summer solstice which means anytime after 20 March 2007 and before 21 June 2007. Leopard could be released at WWDC 2007 and still technically be released in the Spring of 2007. I won't be holding my breath till then.

Chundles
Feb 7, 2007, 10:28 AM
Chundles, I think your sarcasm detector needs re-calibrating.;)

It's 3:30am and I'm trying to get my apartment packed by 8am - my sarcasm meter has been turned off for the duration of the move.

Just be careful because the longer it's turned off the more devastating the result when switched back on.

Carl Spackler
Feb 7, 2007, 10:32 AM
****
Is the the bottom of http://www.apple.com/ redesigned or am I going crazy? :confused:
****

Leopardish? maybe?

yeah, I think your right. I'm really diggin' the overall darker tone of Apple's UI these days. The super simple, black and white inner-app floating tools like in QT Pro, and full-screen mode in iPhoto do a great job of spotlighting, or rather not distracting from your the video and photos. I hope that Final Cut Pro gets a Aperture style makeover. It's floating, modular feel is a-ok in my book.

p0intblank
Feb 7, 2007, 10:38 AM
:( I was hoping for an earlier release than June... as long as it's stable and ready to use, I guess that is what matters most. Now as for iLife, I better not have to wait that long! Come on, Apple. I need iLife updates!

CJD2112
Feb 7, 2007, 10:40 AM
IMHO the ONLY reason the WWDC was announced yesterday was because ( don't laugh ) the exact dates were leaked earlier.Jobs hates when that happens.

Hmmmm, does any one else think Steve Jobs has a bit of OCD/control issues? :p

Peace
Feb 7, 2007, 10:42 AM
:( I was hoping for an earlier release than June... as long as it's stable and ready to use, I guess that is what matters most. Now as for iLife, I better not have to wait that long! Come on, Apple. I need iLife updates!

you're gonna have to wait.I firmly believe iLife07' is an integral part of Leopard.

CJD2112
Feb 7, 2007, 10:42 AM
:( I was hoping for an earlier release than June... as long as it's stable and ready to use, I guess that is what matters most. Now as for iLife, I better not have to wait that long! Come on, Apple. I need iLife updates!

Unfort I have the sense iLife, iWork and Leopard will all be released together in June, as they most likely have similar new qualities and features that Mr. Jobs wants hidden for a big reveal...

On another note, that WWDC invite looks like something out of a Star Trek convention. Any one else a little weary that the new OS interface will look a bit freakish if it is in line with Time Machine and said invite? :eek:

sachamun
Feb 7, 2007, 10:46 AM
A bit off-topic, but...


...before Paul and Ringo demonstrate GarageBand's new network (and time-delay compensation) international Jam feature. (i.e. you can collaborate on sessions live over the internet, and Garageband compensates for the time delay.)

Well 'jamming' - no.
You can't make time happen faster than it does, which is what garageband would have to do to jam in real-time.
Even small amounts of data such as midi streams have latencies that make live jamming impossible. Large amounts of data, like multiple streams of full quality audio are not even close to practical. I know a guy here in Brisbane who, some years ago - I think early 90s, worked on developing a midi jam program (complete with animated 3D figurines of the players!!), but of course the connection speeds back then were a huge bottleneck. He said if he's going to venture into it again, it would be a more multimedia - focused concert, with the musical interaction limited to more textural and harmonic ideas, rather than rhythmic stuff, which would be ruined by lag.

HOWEVER...your garageband idea is interesting in that near-live streaming could be harnessed for recording purposes, where real-time interaction isn't necessary, but a constant, reliable audio stream is.
It'd basically be skype, but much higher quality.
Some time off I think, but recording a drum track in Brisbane for a Sydney studio who receives and syncs the audio seconds later would be real hip. (I'm a drummer (http://www.sachakloostra.com/) btw)

L3X
Feb 7, 2007, 11:09 AM
Chundles, I think your sarcasm detector needs re-calibrating.;)
:)

volvoben
Feb 7, 2007, 11:21 AM
The graphic is indeed extremely star-trekky...too bad the theme song now reminds me of that hummer commercial...

But please please please don't let iphone hijack WWDC...I know it says 'developer', but i'm still concerned. Widescreen ipod? sure, introduce that, but I'll probably never have $500 for a phone

If leopard isn't released until june it would be...lousy, but as long as it doesn't disappoint on features and does away with the godawful gumdrop-traffic light buttons, I'll still love ol' stevie.

by june i might finally be able to afford a mac pro, so i suppose it might be nice timing. lower that generic 4 core MP to $2000 by then and i might even try aperture instead of lightroom.

I bet i'd be more bitter if i made more money and could afford that mac pro today.

thejadedmonkey
Feb 7, 2007, 12:35 PM
What is more interesting is the iCal icon in the dock doesn't have a triangle under it, even though the image shows it running. i know it could have easily been PSed with the same basic desktop as a background. But that seems to be a lack of attention to detail.

iChat can be signed on, but the program itself closed. If someone IM's you, it automatically opens iChat and displays the IM. It's been in OS X since at least 10.3

nslyax
Feb 7, 2007, 12:56 PM
Panther's secret features?

I can post you detailed screen grabs of every single one of Panther's flagship features.

Anyone can really, it's a few years old now.

D'oh, oops, you know what I meant.

Anyway, as long as Leopard is shipping by August 15, along with updated MacBooks with GMA3000 I will be happy. I need a new laptop for school and MacBooks should be updated around April - June timeframe.

Maybe aluminum MacBooks, in all the iPod colors, oooh...

phillipjfry
Feb 7, 2007, 01:11 PM
Does this mean the beginning of "Should I wait until June...?" threads!
Start your typing!

I am gonna wait anyways till June to get my iMac, if I can wait that long. I feel like they will release these things before June and touch base with them in June. With news like this, Apple wouldn't want to lose possible sales and "switchers" to Vista because people got tired of waiting for Apple's new releases. If anything, June will show some updates to the Pro's and maybe laptops/mini's but not the iMac. Those seem too new in hardware to have a bump (last september if I read correctly).

peharri
Feb 7, 2007, 01:23 PM
The graphic is indeed extremely star-trekky...


OMG! That's the clue!

As everyone knows, Star Trek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_project) was the code name for a version of Mac OS that would run on generic PCs in the early nineties. It was cancelled for various reasons.

This has to mean that they're releasing Mac OS X for generic PCs next Tuesday! Isn't it obvious?!!?!

Powerbook G5s and iPhones at WWDC!!!1!

Avatar74
Feb 7, 2007, 01:55 PM
I think the delays have a lot to do with a planned migration to a multitouch UI. It should be evident to anyone who has closely studied Mac's product development cycles that Apple's iPhone is testing the waters of a very powerful type of user interface which allows gestures, sometimes referred to as "chording".

Think of the pre-crime computer in "Minority Report" minus the holography and gloves. That is where I believe Mac and Mac OS are headed very soon. Leopard may be the first significant step in the direction of EXACTLY that type of user interface. Jeff Han of NYU demonstrated this quite clearly at the TED conference with his live demonstration on large multitouch user interfaces that has been doing the rounds on YouTube.

At any rate, I've spoken with a few engineers, one of whom used to work for Apple, and they're not surprised that Apple may be testing prototypes of multitouch iMacs as we speak.

The patents are certainly in place, the UI definitely shows signs of moving toward a more three-dimensional design. It's just a matter of when the product will hit the market.

That announcement *could* come as early as WWDC. It's not at all inconceivable... the multitouch technology is already here. Apple's already releasing one product with it, and they started developing it several years ago... which means by now they're almost certainly testing prototypes of larger scale multitouch interfaces running OS prototypes.

Anyone who thinks they're not thinking this far ahead is easily forgetting how they stunned the world when they revealed, after announcing the Intel Macs, that OS X had already been coded as dual binaries since 10.1.

It certainly would explain a lot of the latency and secrecy around Leopard... and it fits with their product strategy.

Besides, Guy Kawasaki once said among their many other strengths, their strategic advantage is their focus industrial design... on just making "cool stuff" that people want to use. So, if the reason is as simple as "Multitouch, because we can"... Apple's there, and there's an ulterior motive that Steve Jobs has been gunning for ever since he came back on board. They could be preparing to leverage the Multitouch Mac as a deathblow in response to Microsoft's feeble attempt to catch up with Vista.

zblaxberg
Feb 7, 2007, 02:10 PM
so does this mean that leopard isn't coming out until june 11??? cuz thats gonna suck...i'm buying my mbp or whatever is top of the line at that time in like may or early june and i don't want the first one to come out...i wanna wait for them to work out the kinks

ChrisBrightwell
Feb 7, 2007, 02:14 PM
Unparalleled, eh?

Maybe this indicates an Apple-developed replacement for Parallels...

;)Either that or really long lines, as the access will be serial.

:cool:

liutaio97
Feb 7, 2007, 02:39 PM
Well,
as shown on the title immagine you can see many months in the background. To be able to show this immage on a screen in June, Leopard has to be released pretty soon.

Just a thought...

Peace
Feb 7, 2007, 02:41 PM
Well,
as shown on the title immagine you can see many months in the background. To be able to show this immage on a screen in June, Leopard has to be released pretty soon.

Just a thought...

Not true.

I use Leopard and can use Time Machine every month.Leopard for Devs has been out for a while now.

bobber205
Feb 7, 2007, 04:50 PM
Summer doesn't begin until the Summer Solstice (longest day of the year) when the pole is at it's closest to the sun.

This occurs in the northern hemisphere around the 3rd week of June and in the southern hemisphere where I am in the 3rd week of December.

So while it's convenient for us to think of the seasons starting and ending with the months the actual seasons don't quite behave the way we think.

Then as the pole starts to swing away from the sun the days get shorter until the orientation of the poles is at a tangent to our orbit - these are the vernal/autumnal equinoxes when the length of daylight and night is exactly the same. This occurs during the 3rd week of march for the northern spring/southern autumn and the 3rd week of september for the northern autumn/southern spring.

So yeah, now you know.

Lol. You must like to type. ;)

macfan881
Feb 7, 2007, 05:38 PM
if un parraless means apples came out with there own version with 3d graphics and all the features of bootcamp without dual boot 10.5 will be a definitlty be worth the wait till june for me :)

CJD2112
Feb 7, 2007, 05:42 PM
I think the delays have a lot to do with a planned migration to a multitouch UI....

The patents are certainly in place, the UI definitely shows signs of moving toward a more three-dimensional design. It's just a matter of when the product will hit the market...

That announcement *could* come as early as WWDC. It's not at all inconceivable... the multitouch technology is already here. Apple's already releasing one product with it, and they started developing it several years ago... which means by now they're almost certainly testing prototypes of larger scale multitouch interfaces running OS prototypes.

Anyone who thinks they're not thinking this far ahead is easily forgetting how they stunned the world when they revealed, after announcing the Intel Macs, that OS X had already been coded as dual binaries since 10.1.

It certainly would explain a lot of the latency and secrecy around Leopard... and it fits with their product strategy.
.

I very well doubt it. While the technology is there, the market isn't ready for multi-touch OS and devices. Perhaps they are working on slowly implementing such technology into desktops and other devices, but the most Leopard will have to do with multi-touch/input systems is integration with the iPhone... :(

lazyrighteye
Feb 7, 2007, 06:21 PM
Second, has anyone seen this freeverse software Think? (http://www.freeverse.com/think/) It looks like this could be along the same thought lines as Apple's rumoured illuminous UI. Not only that but it's free. I haven't downloaded it yet myself, but would be interested to here how it runs.

I just tried Think (thanks for sharing). Not a fan. Feels a bit limiting.
For me, Exposé is perfect.

Going back to earlier comments about UI: The contents of my windows, web pages, even the work I do (design) is colorful and "distracting " enough. Why add to that aspect with a distracting UI? The candy-colored, wet bubble look is so dated. And so Windows. Eek!

Yep, I'm in the camp that would like to see Apple FINALLY clean up their UI, giving the user a consistant UI that allows the content to shine rather than a UI that compete with said content.

zblaxberg
Feb 7, 2007, 06:48 PM
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

WTF!!! I DON'T WANT TO WAIT UNTIL JUNE!!! WHY TELL ME NOW!!! I'm so depressed...

10.5 better be released before that, or I won't be happy!! I would of rather of not known and been excited when it was closer... I know you have to tell people about it early so people can get there but.... nothing... I just love apple so much I don't want to wait for anything.... I'm sorry Steve... I'm not mad at you... I'll just wait...

The Stig

I have a $2700 gift card to the apple store...i'll sell it to anyone if leopard doesn't come out by april....i'll give up on my mbp

zblaxberg
Feb 7, 2007, 06:52 PM
Panther's secret features?

I can post you detailed screen grabs of every single one of Panther's flagship features.

Anyone can really, it's a few years old now.

I've seen like 10 people think that panther is coming out...theyre still stuck in the stoneages

peharri
Feb 7, 2007, 08:55 PM
I think the delays have a lot to do with a planned migration to a multitouch UI. It should be evident to anyone who has closely studied Mac's product development cycles that Apple's iPhone is testing the waters of a very powerful type of user interface which allows gestures, sometimes referred to as "chording".
...

I think it's too early for that. I don't doubt that Apple plans to release more devices with this kind of interface, but overhauling the desktop/laptop line to work with this kind of interface requires a drastic leap of faith on Apple's part, plus the cooperation of the entire development community to, essentially, throw out virtually everything and start again.

I can see Apple migrating itself from being Macintosh based to being based upon some new platform with this kind of UI (much as it did from Apple II to Mac, albeit this time it's keeping the underlying OS.) But I can't see the Mac itself migrating, because we're talking about an entirely different type of computer. And it's going to take a few years before people feel comfortable with the idea of organizing their lives around one, in the same way as they would a computer today.

FWIW, I don't think Apple plans to do much in terms of seminars on how to program the phone this WWDC, despite it being on nearly everyone's prediction list. Apple is, right now, seeing the phone as a closed platform. It'll be a while before they open it up and talk publically about how to make it sing.

My bet is firmly on Leopard, and/or new hardware.

Avatar74
Feb 7, 2007, 11:48 PM
I very well doubt it. While the technology is there, the market isn't ready for multi-touch OS and devices. Perhaps they are working on slowly implementing such technology into desktops and other devices, but the most Leopard will have to do with multi-touch/input systems is integration with the iPhone... :(

I think it's too early for that. I don't doubt that Apple plans to release more devices with this kind of interface, but overhauling the desktop/laptop line to work with this kind of interface requires a drastic leap of faith on Apple's part, plus the cooperation...

I'm not making concrete predictions here. I don't claim to be psychic nor am I one of the many inane internet pundits who likes to throw out a million predictions in the hopes of getting one right just so I can claim the useless bragging rights of "first to predict" that are so perversely coveted on the internet... I just see the strategic path they're cobbling together and the improvements inherent to Leopard are, while not necessarily coincident with a multitouch Mac release for WWDC, tactical footprints in that direction.

Apple's roadmaps for product development are generally two to three years. This means that if they're designing and testing multitouch prototypes right now, and they most likely are, in two to three years time you're going to see the introduction of a multitouch Mac, shaped largely by the feedback they get from customers after the iPhone's release.

Apple has to do something with the UI that's remained largely unchanged in its basic framework (desktop, 2D bitmap icons, menubar, layered 2D navigation and operation via keyboard/mouse, etc.)... and they tend to try to stay not just slightly, but significantly ahead of the curve.

The various types of visual feedback and physics imitation in the iPhone (scroll momentum, intuitive chording that matches the intended function being executed, springback at end of list, etc.) seem entirely trivial to some, but these are all very logically-derived solutions that compensate for the lack of tactile feedback. There's a strategy behind this, as well.

Part of the objection to the iPhone is the lack of tactile feedback. Overcoming this objection requires delivering something greater in return. Apple's strengths in this area can be seen in things as simple as the scroll acceleration curve in even 1st generation iPods, or the noise generated for the otherwise noiseless trackball on the new Mouse...

Even tactile feedback cannot intuitively tell you when you are at the end of a list. A rubberband-effect as Jobs called it, trivial as it may seem, is a tiny way that unconsciously reminds the user they're at the end of a list. If a UI does nothing at the end of a list but stop, the user might be confused as to whether there's more to the list or whether the device is not reading their input... tactile, yes. Feedback, none.

The necessity of such intricate thought in UI design moving forward is driven by the need to present multiple layers of feedback efficiently in order to increase productivity in a way that's intutive to human beings. How we perceive and react to objects and motion in the real world is entirely automatic, but our brains expect certain data to tell us where we or our appendages are in space at any given moment in order to aid things we take for granted like walking or hanging a picture on a small nail... things which take tremendous locomotor coordination... but are nonetheless taken for granted because of how easily our brains process these tasks in the background.

I guess I began to really think about this aspect of industrial design while recovering from major surgery to partially correct my spastic diplegia (from cerebral palsy)... Most people don't actively think about their hip flexors, adductors, hamstrings, tibialis anterior or gastrocnemius muscle function when doing something as simple as walking. And you shouldn't have to...

One thing Apple is extremely brilliant at is charging their engineers with the task of thinking of these sorts of things for you, so that all the work that goes into making their products ridiculously easy to use has been done before hand. But this brilliance requires an underlying comprehension of how we interact with devices, both consciously and unconsciously.

Acceleration, momentum, etc. are useful feeback in a UI to give users an intuitive sense of how much "force" is required to produce a very specific desired result upon input. We adapt to this type of feedback almost instantaneously every day that we interact with the real world. Nothing could be more intuitive or useful, or more conducive to productivity.

If Apple can acclimate people to nontactile feedback behaviors that simulate what one should expect of manipulating objects in the real world, then they can very easily market a multitouch Mac and UI to replace the arcane desktop/menubar/mouse ergonomics that, in the age of thousands of files, audiovisual media and productivity suites is quickly becoming an utter catastrophe of industrial design.

The delays with Leopard may have to do partly with better integration with iPhone, partly with finishing off feature sets that bring them closer to, if not directly, a multitouch Mac... but have everything to do with their longer-term goal of redefining the UI in a huge way. I think based on the various pieces of the puzzle that this redefinition will result in the first practical multitouch PC with 3D navigation and application interaction.

Evangelion
Feb 8, 2007, 05:51 AM
Think of the pre-crime computer in "Minority Report" minus the holography and gloves. That is where I believe Mac and Mac OS are headed very soon.

That would be dumb. For starters, it needs specific displays to work. Second, it's tedious. As I'm typing this message, I can move the pointer with a slight movement of my hand. Imagine if I had to use the computer with raised arms so I could point and click on the screen? Imagine doing that several hours a day?

the UI in Minority Report looked cool. But it was created for a movie. They wanted something flashy for the silver-screen, they didn't have to worry about actually USING that UI for a prolonged period. of time.

It might work for tablets and PDA's. But using that kind of UI on a big screen that is standing vertically in front of you? Madness!

justflie
Feb 8, 2007, 09:24 AM
That would be dumb. For starters, it needs specific displays to work. Second, it's tedious. As I'm typing this message, I can move the pointer with a slight movement of my hand. Imagine if I had to use the computer with raised arms so I could point and click on the screen? Imagine doing that several hours a day?

the UI in Minority Report looked cool. But it was created for a movie. They wanted something flashy for the silver-screen, they didn't have to worry about actually USING that UI for a prolonged period. of time.

It might work for tablets and PDA's. But using that kind of UI on a big screen that is standing vertically in front of you? Madness!

what if you had it lying down in front of you at a slight angle? After all, you wouldn't need a keyboard or mouse. I guess you're neck might hurt after a while though.

Avatar74
Feb 8, 2007, 10:33 AM
That would be dumb. For starters, it needs specific displays to work. Second, it's tedious. As I'm typing this message, I can move the pointer with a slight movement of my hand. Imagine if I had to use the computer with raised arms so I could point and click on the screen? Imagine doing that several hours a day?

the UI in Minority Report looked cool. But it was created for a movie. They wanted something flashy for the silver-screen, they didn't have to worry about actually USING that UI for a prolonged period. of time.

It might work for tablets and PDA's. But using that kind of UI on a big screen that is standing vertically in front of you? Madness!


When I said "exactly" I wasn't referring to the transparent and horizontal display or standing up hours on end... I was referring to the way the user interface functions: chording gestures that intuitively navigate through three dimensions from essentially a two-dimensional display.

I'm talking about seeing this on, say, an iMac. Now, your first reaction might be "but iMacs are stationary and upright." This is where I'd ask you, and others here who have approached this from the negative, to think forward...

People like to say "tablet PC"... but what images does a tablet PC conjure up? Usually a single-point touchscreen which doesn't allow the user to do things remotely close to what they can do with a multitouch UI. That's why I haven't chosen to use that term directly to refer to where Apple is headed in this case.

What images does an iMac conjure up? Well, several, because iMac has gone through several logical design evolutions: CRT and computer in one case > Luxo Jr.-style LCD lamp-Mac > RoundRect all-in-one iMac (23 years and round rectangles are STILL everywhere!)

Well, how about the next iMac? Well, some people may use the upright design in a multitouch. Others might not. Solution? Make the screen/computer removable from the swivel armature. Voila... iMac/TabletMac in one.

Also, don't get rid of the mouse or the keyboard... multiple options for input devices have been typical of computers for some time: joysticks, paddles, keyboard shortcuts for mouse operations, etc. This type of backward compatibility would be absolutely necessary... I'm certainly not talking about eliminating that.

Another thing that's interesting is the disparity between how engineers not working for Apple see things vs. how the general public sees things. I'll get a hundred replies as to what's wrong with the multitouch Mac idea or why it's not practical yet from the engineer set (not surprisingly, I've received no such complaints from Apple engineers with whom I've shared such ideas)...

But go to YouTube and look at the average user's observations about things like iPhone and they're fired up. The average consumer is thinking up all kinds of ways they can put such technology to use in their personal and professional lives. Granted, many of the techno-elite will thumb their noses (not unlike the way people thumbed their noses 30 years ago at the idea of a personal computer) at iPhone and other emerging technologies because they're analytically dissecting the design down to its individual features without understanding that form is a HUGE factor in industrial design and usability. Form is always downplayed in such forums.

Here's a simple example of a very technical use for a multitouch iMac: Say you have a patient in South Dakota who needs a critical operation and there are only a few surgeons in the world skilled enough to do the procedure. Also, this is a risky procedure, so diagnostic needs are critical. The solution might be something like a Mac Pro with a multitouch interface on a Cinema HD monitor. Diagnostic imaging may come from a portable MRI (which now exists) positioned right in the operating room, feeding data to the HD display. The surgeon then uses the interface to remotely control robotics that have jitter filters to buffer out unintentional tremors or slight wobbliness of the surgeons hands for precision movement... such robotic surgery systems are being tested now. This would take a risky procedure known by a few expert doctors and make it a minimally-invasive procedure available to many patients while (and this is KEY) adapting the interface to capitalize on the surgeon's knowledge, skills and techniques, not the other way around. There are huge benefits for the patients, the doctors (lower risk of malpractice) and the industry as a whole.

Granted, this example is more technically complicated and further down the road than the run of the mill multitouch UI that we'll see in homes in the next three years... but it's a demonstration that there are all kinds of professional and personal applications for this technology.

However, rather than taking Microsoft's approach of trying to shoehorn products into the public psyche, Apple starts with ideas like this and then focuses them sharply on customer needs and wants by gaining feedback from their "feeler" products (e.g. iPhone) as to what purposes they should shape such technologies around... instead of blindly throwing the gadget out there with the hope that people will incidentally find uses for it.

Various components of Leopard are very suitable for adapting users to a multitouch UI, e.g Time Machine, Spaces, Cover Flow, etc. in which they can more directly interact with their data, information, media, etc. rather than through an indirect, nonintuitive input device like a mouse or keyboard. The techno-elite may scoff at my criticism of the mouse and keyboard, but even nearly thirty years after it was first thrust into widespread use, there are many people who simply don't get it. I would submit to you that many more people have been intuitively using their hands to manipulate objects for hundreds of thousands of years to create and produce things in the real, physical world.

A system that melds with this intuitive knowledge is a lot more appealing in personal and professional computing to the majority for whom the computer is nothing more than a device that allows them to do things, create, be productive, entertain, imagine, and so on. For those of us for whom the computer is itself an object for which we produce things, the saliency of this point is often easily lost... That fact does not make philistines out of the computer illiterate. It is only incidental to the clumsy design of computers today that technical prowess has become something of an intellectual commodity that is lorded over those who don't understand.

But speaking also as a musician, I know many fellow musicians who think the same of technical proficiency with musical instruments... and attempt to protect their incidental skill by complaining about the nature of electronic instruments simplifying the technical requirements. Since when did it become law that only those with technical skill should be allowed artistic expression? Maybe some uncoordinated guy somewhere has an idea for a brilliant composition we may never hear simply because he's too daunted by the mechanical requirements of instrument playing.

This sort of intellectual commoditization is nonsense... The underlying fear that the simplicity of future technologies will put people out of jobs is unfounded... at least for those talented enough to continue developing their technical proficiency to stay ahead of the curve and stay in demand. Stan Winston didn't throw his arms up when puppeteering was replaced by CG. He just focused on developing greater skill and realism in CG than the next guy. Stan Winston's doing just fine.

I know I've gone considerably off the beaten path here but I feel it necessary to address these issues as they are essentially roadblocks to understanding that the real goal of technology should be to make the execution of the task many times simpler than the desired result. Technology that makes the task many times more complex than the desired result is utterly inefficient and horrendously unproductive.... not to mention patently unimaginative.

A jazz drummer I know once said, "Good drummers take a simple piece and make it look confusing and complex. Great drummers take an impossible piece and make it look ridiculously easy." This should be the goal of industrial design: Bring out the great drummer in everyone.

Nym
Feb 8, 2007, 11:36 AM
Nice reply, like your way of thinking and writing :)

People always reject change,... at first ;)

L3X
Feb 8, 2007, 11:56 AM
Avatar74...you post like you are an attorney.

interesting thoughts, i like them.

Avatar74
Feb 8, 2007, 12:14 PM
Avatar74...you post like you are an attorney.

interesting thoughts, i like them.

I'm not an attorney... I just tend to write long matter-of-fact diatribes, lately ones that evangelize revolutionary technological concepts. (I wrote a paper in 1996 on internet music distribution... I cringe when reading it though as my writing skills have considerably improved since then.) :D

Thanks for the compliment, though.

Avatar74
Feb 8, 2007, 12:16 PM
Nice reply, like your way of thinking and writing :)

Thanks. :)

People always reject change,... at first ;)

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
- Upton Sinclair

iPlato
Feb 8, 2007, 01:50 PM
and um... ponies. iPonies.

http://www.mediamax.com/tacofan/Hosted/iPony.jpg

And you thought the iPhone was exciting.

L3X
Feb 8, 2007, 02:56 PM
I'm not an attorney... I just tend to write long matter-of-fact diatribes, lately ones that evangelize revolutionary technological concepts. (I wrote a paper in 1996 on internet music distribution... I cringe when reading it though as my writing skills have considerably improved since then.) :D

Thanks for the compliment, though.
you got that paper? can you email it to me mls27@cox.net

i'm going to law school, hoping to get into the intellectual propery field in some form or fashion in the future... would be interested in reading it as that was at the beginnings of online music distribution

though i haven't posted them anywhere, i immediately begin to think of many ways apple could use their multi-touch technology after viewing the iphone keynote. For instance, replace the mouse pad on the MacBooks and Pros with a multi-touch type of mousepad. This could still be used like a mouse but the zoom in/zoom out function (pinching fingers) could be added as well as the coverflow option (slide finger across the pad). And whatever else they could think of... Just some thoughts.

backsidetailsli
Feb 8, 2007, 03:25 PM
k so with the invitation and the preview of leopard on apples site there are both hints at a new os theme.
invitation shows the dates highlighted in a black and on the site there is this bar.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2662/picture1eq3.png
just a thought.

Musubi
Feb 8, 2007, 05:11 PM
Part of the objection to the iPhone is the lack of tactile feedback.
Not sure if anyone has discussed it before but there is a company which specializes in providing tactile feedback; Immersion Corporation. They have something called TouchSense/VibeTonz which provides tactile feedback for touchscreens (http://www.immersion.com/industrial/touchscreen/). The Samsung SCH-W559 touchscreen mobile phone (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/17/samsung-sch-w559-touts-vibrating-vibetonz-touchscreen/) utilizes this technology. iPhone (and whatever else products Apple decides to use multitouch technology in) will more than likely include something like this in the future.

Avatar74
Feb 8, 2007, 07:06 PM
Not sure if anyone has discussed it before but there is a company which specializes in providing tactile feedback; Immersion Corporation. They have something called TouchSense/VibeTonz which provides tactile feedback for touchscreens (http://www.immersion.com/industrial/touchscreen/). The Samsung SCH-W559 touchscreen mobile phone (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/17/samsung-sch-w559-touts-vibrating-vibetonz-touchscreen/) utilizes this technology. iPhone (and whatever else products Apple decides to use multitouch technology in) will more than likely include something like this in the future.

Thank you... It's refreshing to see such forward thinking... Just because a product doesn't include such a feature now doesn't preclude such evolution from taking place. I think you've presented something interesting there.

I was a bit concerned as to whether or not this TouchSense would work with the iPhone but the manufacturer does indeed claim that it functions with capacitance-based touchscreens. As to whether or not it works with multipoint capacitance touchscreens, though, might be an issue... but certainly just a speedbump. After all, the way you have to think if you are going to be on the leading edge of technology is not "We can't do this," but, "Maybe not yet, but HOW might we make it possible to do this?"

From there you begin identifying, if the direct technology doesn't exist, the intermediate steps you're going to need to evolve through technologically to get there. That's how you execute on the kind of radical product development roadmaps that resulted in the Apple II (using a language card and bank switching to achieve 80K RAM overcoming a 64K limit), the Macintosh (sticking the cursor refresh in the vertical blanking interval to achieve a flicker-free cursor that took Microsoft another ten years to figure out), OS X (writing dual binaries from day one to support Intel processor Macs five years in advance of the product)...

It's really scary and depressing what participation in technical forums has done to caress the misguided egos and philosophies of legions of jaded, unimaginative engineers who repeat bad designs ad nauseum and rarely invent anything new because they see technology as a means to its own end... rather than a means for a user to achieve something imaginative.

I think part of the problem may rest in the lack of ingenuity in industrial design, but some of it also rests with ego. If a brilliant CG artist does his job, hopefully no one notices. Humans have flaws, and ego is one of them... too often ego gets in the way of good business decisions. Most often, this takes the form of wanting to put your stamp on every damned thing and blare it loudly to the world as Bill Gates does. Frankly, Gates is a horrible innovator and he was never much of a programmer. But it's his perverse fantasy that the world will want what he wants them to want.

Either such an engineer is simply incompetent when it comes to usability and/or actually wants his work to be noticeably complicated, so that we might appreciate the technical prowess behind his unnecessarily convoluted invention. If it were flawless, we might never notice he existed. That would be ideal, but it would also be a blow to his ego. Consequently, you rarely see flawless design in IT.

You can force ego-stamped mediocrity on people and be successful... but as I learned from watching the CEO of my wife's company at a Christmas party, money doesn't necessarily buy coolness... or coordination on the dance floor, apparently.

guzhogi
Feb 9, 2007, 10:59 AM
A little off topic, but one minor feature that would help is if you select at least 1 file/folder in the Finder (and possibly open/save boxes, too), there should be an option under the File menu and a contextual menu option to create a folder and put all the selected items in it. Where I work, some people have so many files on the desktop, they actually pile up. This way, you don't have to create a folder, hunt around to find where its icon is and then find all the files. All you have to do is selected at least some of the files, click a menu option and they're put into a new folder. It shouldn't be too hard to do.

peharri
Feb 9, 2007, 01:41 PM
Spare us the martyrdom.

Nobody said it's a stupid idea.
Nobody said it will never happen.

What was said is that they're not going to announce that this will be the interface for the Mac at WWDC'07.

I, personally, said it will not be in a Mac but, after checking the viability with the iPhone, would seem likely to be in a new generation of computers, to the Mac as the Mac was to the Apple II. I cannot possibly fathom how that can be anything but embracing the concept.

Avatar74
Feb 9, 2007, 11:03 PM
Spare us the martyrdom.

Nobody said it's a stupid idea.
Nobody said it will never happen.

What was said is that they're not going to announce that this will be the interface for the Mac at WWDC'07.

I, personally, said it will not be in a Mac but, after checking the viability with the iPhone, would seem likely to be in a new generation of computers, to the Mac as the Mac was to the Apple II. I cannot possibly fathom how that can be anything but embracing the concept.

I wasn't speaking to the timetable in my replies so much as I was speaking to the way in which several individuals, yourself included, question the rapidity with which people will embrace such technology.

Also, knowing that Apple is now given to announcing some products ahead of their actual release dates, I wasn't suggesting that a product would be ready to ship by WWDC '07. I was suggesting it may be announced by then, and that the groundwork for the first phase of migration to the new UI could be in Leopard... I didn't say definitively that Leopard would be it.

However, it isn't necessarily the case that all developers need suddenly rewrite all their software from the "ground up" in order for a multitouch Mac to be deployed as you suggested in a previous post.

I am and have only been indicating that the seeds for a multitouch UI are being planted in Leopard, with the goal of introducing multitouch Macs to market within the next three years. I originally suspected perhaps five years, but it was a former Apple product engineer who suggested the narrower estimate based on his years of experience with the company in product R&D, customer feedback and deployment.

To summarize, my two overarching points are and only have been:

1. I think we'll see the first generation of multitouch Macs sooner rather than later (within 3 years, two at best).

2. I think that users will find multitouch very useful... easy to adapt to, practical and conducive to productivity.

Lastly, I'm not provoked by personality attacks or the people who employ them. I'm only interested in what intellectual value you contribute to the debate. Ad hominem contributes nothing of intellectual value whatsoever.

ortuno2k
Feb 15, 2007, 12:20 AM
I hope we don't have to wait all the way 'till June to get Leopard, iLife and iWork '07. I doubt Apple wants to release this software concurrently with the iPhone - it would mean drama - which way are people going to go? Doesn't Steve want everyone's attention on the iPhone?
So I hope it gets released sooner, but let them take their time and release a good, stable OS. I'm buying it the minute it's out.

peharri
Feb 15, 2007, 08:23 AM
I wasn't speaking to the timetable in my replies so much as I was speaking to the way in which several individuals, yourself included, question the rapidity with which people will embrace such technology.


Really? When did I address the rapidity of the embracing of such technologies?


Lastly, I'm not provoked by personality attacks or the people who employ them. I'm only interested in what intellectual value you contribute to the debate. Ad hominem contributes nothing of intellectual value whatsoever.

Perhaps a good start on your part might be to address what people are saying rather than attacking straw men. You certainly aren't "provoked by" personality attacks so much as subtly and unsubtly engaging in them. Your attacks are getting steadily worse too, as this above response response to a request that you stop misrepresenting my views demonstrates.

As I said above, nobody has said the idea of multitouch as a primary computer interaction system is stupid. What I, and others, have cast doubt on is the notion that it'll be a Macintosh technology (as opposed to an entirely new platform), and that it'll be a big part of WWDC '07. That's it. In response, we've been attacked by you for our apparent lack of vision, while you've "played the victim" as if hundreds of angry luddites are criticising the notion that advanced touchscreen technologies may be a major part of computing in the future.

I don't like being attacked for things that bare no relationship whatsoever to what I've said. Nor, I would imagine, do any of the others Macrumors regulars whose comments you've misrepresented this way.

You have some interesting ideas, but your desire to engage in personal attacks, including the use of straw men and implied ad-hominems, against those who disagree with the relevence of them to WWDC'07 is quite honestly increadibly off-putting to the point that I, for one, am inclined to put you on my ignore list. Please stick to addressing what people have written rather than portraying anyone who disagrees with any aspect of what you've written as a visionless luddite.