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holy MAC!
Jul 14, 2003, 02:16 PM
if any of you noticed, thinksecret has posted that the apple booth is open.... meaning that there won't be any new products announced.....

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

plutnicki
Jul 14, 2003, 02:31 PM
Well, that would be a real bummer. But, perhaps a 15" update isn't a NEW product, as much as it is an update to an existing product...

I'm still hopeful that tomorrow's Apple Store will have an updated 15" notebook that is orderable.

Maybe I'm just smoking something.

If there's nothing announced, and I'm buying a new notebook, the question then becomes should I buy the 17" to get the most modern of the laptops available, or should I get the 15" and live with being a few months back...

I don't think continuing to wait is an option, if they don't announce new Pbooks now, then something is holding them up.


...Jim

yzedf
Jul 14, 2003, 02:31 PM
gee... no new PB 15" still?

Suprise surprise...

Can I now say that Apple has dropped the ball? Year of the what again?

Uh huh. Sure. Whatever.

Me thinks SJ needs to think before he opens his mouth. I however do not, seeming as I am infallible (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=infallible) (NOT).

<edit>

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/jan/07pbg4_17.html

Jim, the PB 17" is old enough to warrant an update. That is how far behind the 15" is...

</edit>

Mr. Anderson
Jul 14, 2003, 02:41 PM
But tomorrow is Tuesday.....that's when all the rumors say you'll get an update....who knows? But if nothing comes out new tomorrow it will definitely lower my chances of going now....


D

holy MAC!
Jul 14, 2003, 02:43 PM
i hope that this is one of those announments where they dont' have the machines ready to be used.....

it would make sense to follow the apple scheme of trying to kill the assumption that major announments comes at conferences....

but i hope they have one of those "tuesday sprees" where they update everything.... that would be nice......

plutnicki
Jul 14, 2003, 03:26 PM
All of the powerbooks are definitely in need of a refresh, the 15" especially so.

BUT, at least the 17" is fresher than the 15".

Honestly, the current 15" is just fine for my needs, the reason I've been holding off it to try to make sure I get the most for my money (i.e. tomorrow there may be a 1.25Ghz, with Airport Extreme, FW800, 80 GIg HD at the same price point. That would be a bummer to miss...). The Al vs. Ti case isn't a big deal to me, nor a backlit keyboard, nor better graphics.... AE would be nice, as well as a bumped processor.

I still believe something will be happening tomorrow or Wed at the latest.

...Jim

hvfsl
Jul 14, 2003, 03:45 PM
It looks like we will have to wait until MW Paris to see the new PowerBook line.

mcm
Jul 14, 2003, 03:48 PM
Were the 15 inch PBs rumored to be announced Tuesday? Or is it Wednesday? Isn't "Joz's" presentation on Wednesday?

Too much waiting. I want to know now ;)

QCassidy352
Jul 14, 2003, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by hvfsl
It looks like we will have to wait until MW Paris to see the new PowerBook line.

people have been saying for months "they're just around the corner." my theory is that we see 1.2 Ghz G4 powerbooks in 2006.

jazzman45
Jul 14, 2003, 03:53 PM
this is just ridiculous, school is right around the corner, and i've convinced at least 3 people to get powerbooks, and i keep saying...just wait a bit, wait a bit... they really need to update these things, i mean 6 months is too long not to update.

Pancake
Jul 14, 2003, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by jazzman45
this is just ridiculous, school is right around the corner, and i've convinced at least 3 people to get powerbooks, and i keep saying...just wait a bit, wait a bit... they really need to update these things, i mean 6 months is too long not to update.

I completely agree. I am going to get a powerbook before school starts and I'll be upset if I'm stuck with an out of date one.

QCassidy352
Jul 14, 2003, 04:00 PM
8 months on the 15". The current line came out in November.

If it were going to be a major revision like a g5 I can see how they would need lots of time, but how on earth can it take 8 months just to bring the 15" up to par with the others?

It's kinda funny, because when Jobs announced the Albooks, he basically admitted several design flaws with the Tibooks, but now 6 months later, they're still selling the same "flawed" (by their own admission) product.

AppleMatt
Jul 14, 2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by plutnicki
or should I get the 15" and live with being a few months back...

Of course the old machines still have OS 9 booting...I miss that sorely on my 12"

AppleMatt

johnpaul191
Jul 14, 2003, 04:02 PM
not that i am holding my breath, but his presentation is Wednesday 09:30 - 10:30 east coast time.....

i wonder if there were 15inch powerbooks out yet? that's about the only thing that might have been tweaked.

this will be the first chance for the public to see/touch the G5 and 10.3 so it will be fun anyway......

dornball
Jul 14, 2003, 04:05 PM
they could announce new updated PB G4's, and not have any "on-hand" models to she people.

jOz could say that they are avaiable via the online store. and since it is just G4 updates, its not much to announce, no one makes a big deal of it. a speed-bumoped update ( and bringing the 15" up-to-date with the other 2. that's it.

i think that is possible.

-dornball

wondermite
Jul 14, 2003, 04:12 PM
It would be quite silly to close the booth for TWO DAYS of the entire conference, you gits. And, they do product updates all the time without shrouds of secrecy.

Count on an update of some hardware or software product at MWCP.

jimthorn
Jul 14, 2003, 04:18 PM
I finally picked up a new iBook, so I really hope there isn't a refresh on the iBook line. I'll just cry.

And my money's on the new PB15 not coming out yet. It wouldn't be exciting enough yet. Now maybe by MWSF04, if they can cram a G5 in it... :)

moosecat
Jul 14, 2003, 04:19 PM
My uneducated prediction is that we see updates of some kind tomorrow, at the Apple Store, and that they are further discussed by Joswiak on Wednesday. Assuming no ridiculousness like a G5, a PowerBook speed-bump and/or minor enclosure update is not the sort of thing that a "feature presentation" should trumpet the release of, but it would be a nice thing for the hardware guy to talk about for a bit.

I think Apple will play it low-key. It would be weird to have giant, secret displays of a PowerBook that is new only in that it has been speed-bumped and/or is encased in aluminum.

O.K.
Jul 14, 2003, 04:19 PM
I think it is obvious, that focus is on G5 PowerMacs only.

Read here:

what is it all about . link (http://www.macworldexpo.com/macworld2003/V40/index.cvn?ID=10341)

sacrilicious
Jul 14, 2003, 04:29 PM
I'll jump on the bandwagon that a 15" update isn't worth being all secret about. I'm hoping for something blazing fast (and available to order) in September, though.

Freg3000
Jul 14, 2003, 04:38 PM
Hopefully there will be an update via Apple.com, and the Joz speaks briefly about it at the opening of the keynote, and then gets into the G5. Hopefully.....

sonofslim
Jul 14, 2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by dornball
a speed-bumoped update ( and bringing the 15" up-to-date with the other 2. that's it.

ugh. if they're just bringing it inline with messrs. 12 and 17, what's the hold-up been? i certainly don't expect to see a new 15" any time this week, probably not this month, and possibly not even this quarter. but when they are released, i really hope they're worth the wait and not just long-overdue speedbumps and candy. backlit keyboards are hunky-dory, but they ain't worth waiting 2 product cycles for.

i've been waiting for a prince in shining 15" aluminum armor for some time now, and i'm seriously thinking about packing it in and buying the current Ti, or maybe even a 14" iBook and just dealing with it.

i'm patient, and totally brand-loyal, but after all this waiting it's like the reality distortion field is wearing off leaving a hangover.

nagromme
Jul 14, 2003, 04:39 PM
MacWhispers has done a 180 and now thinks that not only are G5 PBs not coming soon, but that neither is an Aluminum 15". A new 'Book is still expected soon though: their sources suggest the 15" will get a minor revision to the old Titanium design instead, for now.

Take with salt.

jaedreth
Jul 14, 2003, 05:01 PM
If there were going to be a revision to the 15", it would have happened already. 1) They wanted people to still have the option of getting Titanium in case the user doesn't care about airport or cosmetics... ( IF ) 2) They have likely been working on a revision of the entire powerbook model. Now I think that strategy is stupid. However, the only rational reason I can think of is that they are about to totally redesign the PowerBook line as drastically as they redesigned the PowerMac line, and it's taking them a farging long time. With that said, I bet *no* announcements on Wednesday. First announcement will come in January from San Fran.

Now, that's assuming that rationality can be applied to Apple.

Jaedreth

pimentoLoaf
Jul 14, 2003, 05:06 PM
Well, today isn't tomorrow, so...

Jobs is toying with us. There probably will be something announced, matter-o'-factly, regarding upgrades.

AidenShaw
Jul 14, 2003, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by wondermite
It would be quite silly to close the booth for TWO DAYS of the entire conference, you gits.

The exhibit hall doesn't open until the third day!

http://www.macworldexpo.com/macworld2003/V40/index.cvn

http://www.macworldexpo.com/convdata/macworld2003/images/MWCP_Home_165x111.gifhttp://www.macworldexpo.com/convdata/macworld2003/images/CREATE_NY03_Dates.gif

XnavxeMiyyep
Jul 14, 2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by pimentoLoaf
Well, today isn't tomorrow, so...

Jobs is toying with us. There probably will be something announced, matter-o'-factly, regarding upgrades.
Maybe Jobs is toying with us. Maybe there will be a G5 Powerbook tomorrow!:D

beefcake
Jul 14, 2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by jazzman45
this is just ridiculous, school is right around the corner, and i've convinced at least 3 people to get powerbooks, and i keep saying...just wait a bit, wait a bit... they really need to update these things, i mean 6 months is too long not to update.
If Apple doesn't update the 15" before the fall semester, then dude, I'm gettin' a Dell

:mad:

Bruja
Jul 14, 2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by QCassidy352
people have been saying for months "they're just around the corner." my theory is that we see 1.2 Ghz G4 powerbooks in 2006.

-------------
Once the end of the week comes about then we'll see. 20 Quid says Jan 2006 (Just incase)

CrackedButter
Jul 14, 2003, 05:30 PM
November last year was the time when i started to take serious note of Apple when it came to purchasing hardware from them, then when the 12" PB came out i decided i wanted one and got myself a iB (big difference i know), anyway the 15" is the more famous laptop and its the reason why i bought a mac in the first place, i've always wanted it...

I'm willing to sell my iBook tomorrow and take a huge chunk out of my credit card for one.

I've already got a buyer lined up to take the ibook off my hands so all i need is the annoucement ...not a dissapointment.

The_Wall
Jul 14, 2003, 05:33 PM
Quiet frankly I'm a little pissed. :( I have been waiting for the new 15"PB to come out for quiet sometime and the odds arent looking good now. I need to try and have my computer before August 1, as I report for soccer pre-season. If there is no new PB soon, I maybe forced to go with a Dell or a Sony Vaio.

bignumbers
Jul 14, 2003, 05:34 PM
I think this is all Apple/IDG politics. Apple is doing all it can to diminish the importance of this particular show (east coast macworld). WWDC was rescheduled to be just prior, making all the big announcements for products that weren't shipping anyway (thus, could have equally been made in NYC). Yeah, there were some announcements useful for developers but honestly not much (WWDC has rarely been an announcement platform, no matter what was going on).

My prediction is no new products this week, but new powerbooks NEXT week. Again, to drive the stake further into IDG's heart.

I'll be at the show, but not expecting any surprises.

CrackedButter
Jul 14, 2003, 05:44 PM
It'll cost them money if they do this...just to piss off IDG.

solvs
Jul 14, 2003, 05:49 PM
This doesn't make any sense.

They released the 15" in Nov. Then, a few months later, the 12" and 17". Then they shipped the 17" a few months after that. 8 months later, we still have the same 15", which isn't bad, but it's not as good as the 17". And is still missing features that the 12" has. You'd think they would have at least either waited to release the 15", to be on par with the later releases, or brought it up to spec already. Unless they had some major new release coming. But then, they said the G5 won't be going in to a laptop anytime soon. So they could be making a minor speed bump, but why wait so long, unless Motos new chips aren't ready. But if it's taking so long, they should have just released a 15" that has, at least, the features of the 12".

I'm confused. :confused:

I hope they just release something soon. Even quietly. Minor speed bump. Better features. Shipping soon.

I dount they will release a new iBook. Contrary to popular belief, the Gobi isn't ready to be shipped yet. Soon, we will have 1 GHz+ iBooks, but not yet. Besides, they're newer than the PBooks.

Bruja
Jul 14, 2003, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by CrackedButter
It'll cost them money if they do this...just to piss off IDG. Not to mention the potential monies to be made by people willing and waiting for Apple to release the books. :(

Escher
Jul 14, 2003, 06:12 PM
IMO, the fact that there is no secrecy surrounding Apple's booth doesn't tell us much. We're going to get new PowerBook G4's. So there's not much to hide in terms of signeage. And it wouldn't take more than 20 minutes to swap aging Titanium PowerBooks for new 15-inch Aluminum PowerBooks on the displays.

I'm still betting on at least an updated 15-inch PowerBook tomorrow on Apple's website or Wednesday during Jozwiak's keynote.

Escher

Nebrie
Jul 14, 2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by nagromme
MacWhispers has done a 180 and now thinks that not only are G5 PBs not coming soon, but that neither is an Aluminum 15". A new 'Book is still expected soon though: their sources suggest the 15" will get a minor revision to the old Titanium design instead, for now.

Take with salt.

The big question of course is, why are you still reading them? They have zero credibility. They've pumped out dozens of rumors and have only gotten one right out of luck.

venture160
Jul 14, 2003, 06:27 PM
i am going to college this fall as well, and like jazzman i have convinced 2 fellow pc users to get powerbook! and both have stressed that they want the 15" model. and i told them to wait until next week, they want to buy them now, if they dont come out with this they are going back to the dark side, apple please listen!!! plus when i go to college in a month i want a computer that wont be a year old and would be replaced in a few months, this is getting rediculously stupid now.

steveh
Jul 14, 2003, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by beefcake
If Apple doesn't update the 15" before the fall semester, then dude, I'm gettin' a Dell

Which will run OS X *so* much better...

Ikash
Jul 14, 2003, 06:57 PM
i hope this rumor isn't true if it is im gona be very very disapointed in apple. i might even have to commit apple suicide and buy a dell. you guys are gona have to talk me down. im not yet a ture apple person just yet, i have an 15gb new ipod and and ipod **** and poster so im getting there but the last thing i will need is an apple computer. i was hoping to get the new 15" before i go on my convention in silicon valley but its not looking likely now. im hoping the rumors isn't true

:o :( :mad: :o :( :mad:

Ikash
Jul 14, 2003, 06:59 PM
i think we should all write apple and like flood there mail boxes with the request for them to release the nw 15" powerbooks already but this would have to be big, i mean everyone on alot of apple pages would have to write,

think it might work

Ikash:confused:

neutrino23
Jul 14, 2003, 07:33 PM
You have to think that from a marketing viewpoint Apple wanted to have the 15" updated already. It is Apple's main PowerBook and with PowerMac sales in the tank PowerBooks were keeping the company profitable (or nearly so). Therefore, I'll speculate that there is some kind of manufacturing problem that is holding this up. That could be anything - CPUs, metal parts, batteries, screens.

Remember in Hitchhiker's Guide a spaceship full of people was kept in suspended animation because the ship didn't have the lemon scented towelettes they needed for the trip? They explained to the ship's computer that there was no civilization on the planet to supply those. The computer replied that someday sentient beings would evolve on that planet and they would form a civilization and they would manufacture lemon scented towelettes so until then they would just wait.

nazariteguitar
Jul 14, 2003, 07:44 PM
I still am not loosing hope for something BIG! Just think this past year, notebooks out-sold desktops, after all this is the "year of the notebook". I don't believe Apple would introduce such an amazing product at the beginning of the year, just to let it die off and be trampled by the tower at the end. The delay of the 15" AL is a huge mystery, but I think we are on the verge of understanding why Apple has held back the 15" (possibly 15.4") AlPowerbook.
Apple has shocked the world in the past and they will do it again.

You might think I am too optimistic and naive, but apple is well aware of the fact that notebooks will take over.



(All this coming from a windows user [soon to be Apple user after the 15"al is unleashed], that has never owned a Mac product in his life.

actripxl
Jul 14, 2003, 07:47 PM
I hope this is not true, cause I'm in the market for a laptop. I switched in Dec. so I by no means am a Mac zealot. I love OS and can't wait for Panther, but the Hardware is killing me. I love my iBook and chose it to be on the safe side if I hated the Mac platform. Now I'm ready for a better comp to do some image editing, but to use old and slow hardware from yesterday and paying today's price's is an outrage. I was hoping for an update on the 15" since I will get it before Sept. for school. I don't get it EVERYONE knows that the back to school season is where computer manufactures make a good deal of their business. Apple on the other hand seems to use it as a way to clear out inventory when the others are releasing their newest models, this was the case last year when I was researching for a laptop. If this does turn out to be true I just may switch back and get a Dell , I may love Apples products but I am a consumer who is just trying to get the most bang for his buck.

wilco
Jul 14, 2003, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by neutrino23


Remember in Hitchhiker's Guide a spaceship full of people was kept in suspended animation because the ship didn't have the lemon scented towelettes they needed for the trip? They explained to the ship's computer that there was no civilization on the planet to supply those. The computer replied that someday sentient beings would evolve on that planet and they would form a civilization and they would manufacture lemon scented towelettes so until then they would just wait.

You must do great with the ladies!

snahabed
Jul 14, 2003, 08:20 PM
Whats up with all the hatin? My TiG4 1ghz with 1GB RAM is fantastic... why wait for an update?

If I couldnt find a 15", and I need a powerbook, I would just bloody get a 12 or 17"... nothing is worth getting a piece of ****e dell!

plutnicki
Jul 14, 2003, 08:30 PM
The 12" is just a bit too small. The 17", I could probably live with it, but it's a damn big system. I suspect my iMac would be easier to carry around.

If there's no update to the 15" tomorrow or Wed, I will probably just buy the TiBook. It's all I need. Yes, I'd love to have more speed and AirPort Extreme (the only two things I'm really hoping for in a PB update, maybe move the ports to the side rather than the rear), but I don't think it's worth buying a Dell over!!!

I'll enjoy the next month with my new PB and I'll probably be reading all the same stuff in a month waiting for the Paris show to unveil new PBs. If Apple waits another month, it had durn well be more than an Al case, speed bump and AE...

Besides, Titanium sounds cooler than Aluminum anyday.

...Jim

Aciddan
Jul 14, 2003, 08:39 PM
Nothing New at Macworld was confirmed (now reenforced) by chats to certain people on Sunday.

I mentioned this in the Macwhispers thread:

[EDIT link] http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32057

- No Als until the surplus Ti Casings are all used up (which means the Tis will be around for a while yet).

I hope they're wrong, but given the way they said it I've got the feeling that this is a true statement...

-- Dan :(

panphage
Jul 14, 2003, 08:49 PM
The 15" powerbook is shipping same day at the apple store. I don't think they're gonna ship me a ti15 and then start selling al15's a few hours later. They'd have to take a lot of returns.

nazariteguitar
Jul 14, 2003, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by panphage
The 15" powerbook is shipping same day at the apple store. I don't think they're gonna ship me a ti15 and then start selling al15's a few hours later. They'd have to take a lot of returns.

Good point, but when would they cut the line completely without giving away the new model.

Ikash
Jul 14, 2003, 08:52 PM
i mean if they wait till september to release thean alot of the powerpook buyers might buy G5's. i bet alot of people will still buy the 15" powerbooks but alot would also prob get the g5


I HOPE THEY COME OUT SOON

nazariteguitar
Jul 14, 2003, 08:59 PM
I still am not loosing hope for something BIG! Just think this past year, notebooks out-sold desktops, after all this is the "year of the notebook". I don't believe Apple would introduce such an amazing product at the beginning of the year, just to let it die off and be trampled by the tower at the end. The delay of the 15" AL is a huge mystery, but I think we are on the verge of understanding why Apple has held back the 15" (possibly 15.4") AlPowerbook.
Apple has shocked the world in the past and they will do it again.

You might think I am too optimistic and naive, but apple is well aware of the fact that notebooks will take over.



(All this coming from a windows user [soon to be Apple user after the 15"al is unleashed], that has never owned a Mac product in his life.

TomA
Jul 14, 2003, 09:01 PM
- No Als until the surplus Ti Casings are all used up.

Well everybody with paint peeled Ti's could send them in for warranty replacement. Maybe that would use them up!

We bought a hell of a lot of Dells last month after Apple failed to release a decent 15" system. Most people seem to be OK with them.

BTW--Has anyone checked out the new Medion 15.4" laptop at Aldi? Amazing specs, cheap and it has a superdrive! (Cool little A/V control pad, too.) And--why hasn't Apple thought of this--you can play your CDs without booting the computer and hard drive! Coooool.

TomA
Jul 14, 2003, 09:10 PM
Sorry, the Medion is a 15.2, not 15.4. Here are the details:

Up the road from the cavernous Micro Center is an outlet for the cut-rate ALDI grocery chain that plans a door-buster laptop sale starting Monday, offering laptops for $1,499 that have got to be the most powerful mobile PCs for the money on earth.

These MD 2900 models from Germany's Medion AG come with 512 megabytes of RAM, 2.4 gigahertz Pentium 4 processors, 40-gigabyte hard drives, DVD-RW/CD-RW burners, 802.11b wireless networking and gloriously sharp 15.2-inch WXGA screens.

GeForce 440 video cards run the hottest advanced games and S-Video ports connect to TV sets or VCRs to display anything created on the computers. With high-speed IEEE 1394 or FireWire inputs and that large hard drive, the Medions worked great in a recent test where I created home movies from a digital camcorder. Medion's DVD-R recorder let me save the movies to 4.7-gigabyte DVDs.

Derek Newsom, CEO of the Medion USA Inc. branch of the German tech marketing giant, said this laptop offering will be the first of a series of "burst" laptop sales campaigns in which Medion manufactures a shipment of high-powered and low-cost merchandise on a one-time basis.

This saves such costs as inventory maintenance and lets Medion make one-time buys of parts at optimal prices versus keeping permanent supply lines open as conventional computer companies like Dell or HP must do. Every corner is cut to save costs, right up to the point that buyers must pay cash or use ATM debit cards on the spot to save Medion credit card charges.

illumin8
Jul 14, 2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by beefcake
If Apple doesn't update the 15" before the fall semester, then dude, I'm gettin' a Dell

:mad:
No ***** man... Apple is literally asleep at the switch here. I don't know how many people I've talked to that would love to buy a 15" PowerBook if they would just update it to Aluminum. 12" is too small and 17" is too big.

Now with Dell offering P4 2.6 Ghz. notebooks for only $700-$800 it's getting more and more tempting to just say "hell with it" and get the Dell. Even if the Dell will only give you 2.5 hours of battery life and weighs 8 or 9 pounds, who cares, it cost 1/3rd the price and is actually available right now...

:mad:

uberman42
Jul 14, 2003, 09:30 PM
You do not want to buy a 700-$800 Dell - you'll kick yourself for it. Well you should kick yourself for just thinking about it...Naughty Naughty.

I am thinking something big is happening, they missed the time for the last update so obviously there is some good things in the crockpot (el tablito mac- I wanna use inkwell on the screen- dig?). Patience is a virtue.

jbomber
Jul 14, 2003, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by bignumbers
I think this is all Apple/IDG politics. Apple is doing all it can to diminish the importance of this particular show (east coast macworld). WWDC was rescheduled to be just prior, making all the big announcements for products that weren't shipping anyway (thus, could have equally been made in NYC). Yeah, there were some announcements useful for developers but honestly not much (WWDC has rarely been an announcement platform, no matter what was going on).

My prediction is no new products this week, but new powerbooks NEXT week. Again, to drive the stake further into IDG's heart.

I'll be at the show, but not expecting any surprises.

Interesting theory. i can see Apple doing that actually. "Joz" will do the dog and pony show for the G5 and people will be happy about that but disappointed that Macworld NY yielded nothing new.

Hopefully this won't blow up in apple's face. A lot of people, myself included, will be very upset if yet another week passes with no new powerbooks. People don't want the current Ti enclosures. Period. They're terribly flawed and for god's sake, painted metal? what the hell is that all about?

If apple keeps holding off on this stuff, a lot of people in the market for a midsized pro-level laptop will start to look elsewhere. Just look at these boards- MacRumors is a pro-mac site, and half the people waiting for a new Powerbook are actually contemplating SWITCHING to PC. What about all the computer users on the fence? If they do a little research and see that Apple's dragging their feet on product releases, they might just head on over to Dell or Gateway...

Apple needs to stand up and take notice. If they don't replace their outdated system with what the people are looking for, somebody else will.

gopher
Jul 14, 2003, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by beefcake
If Apple doesn't update the 15" before the fall semester, then dude, I'm gettin' a Dell

:mad:

Fine Dude, enjoy your cell.

gopher
Jul 14, 2003, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by illumin8
No ***** man... Apple is literally asleep at the switch here. I don't know how many people I've talked to that would love to buy a 15" PowerBook if they would just update it to Aluminum. 12" is too small and 17" is too big.

Now with Dell offering P4 2.6 Ghz. notebooks for only $700-$800 it's getting more and more tempting to just say "hell with it" and get the Dell. Even if the Dell will only give you 2.5 hours of battery life and weighs 8 or 9 pounds, who cares, it cost 1/3rd the price and is actually available right now...

:mad:

Available now with a 10% DOA rate. That means one in ten chance you'll get a lemon and not a Dell.

jbomber
Jul 14, 2003, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by CrackedButter
It'll cost them money if they do this...just to piss off IDG.

Assuming the powerbooks are ready, they'll be missing on an opportunity to introduce it to a large audience. Sure the mac community will be just as aware of a 'quiet' update, but passing up on a large forum like MacWorld (politics aside) is a bad move. It's a platform where there will be thousands of the mac-faithful, potential switchers, and members of the press. If Apple holds back simply to spite IDG, they'll both lose big.

Best move for Apple would be to release any new pbooks tomorrow (Tuesday) which takes some of the wind out of IDG's sails, but keeps them in good standing with their faithful, and thus far, patient fans.

Docrjm
Jul 14, 2003, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by TomA
Sorry, the Medion is a 15.2, not 15.4. Here are the details:


Funny I thought this was a mac site and not a wintel sales pitch??

Sakino
Jul 14, 2003, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by TomA
- No Als until the surplus Ti Casings are all used up.



How long have people been saying this? Since Feb of 03. Enough of this ti surplus. It would be stupid of apple to keep a surplus of over 6-7 months of laptops. Where the **** are they going to put them all?

and might I add the waste of money to keep such a surplus.

TomA
Jul 14, 2003, 11:09 PM
<<Funny I thought this was a mac site and not a wintel sales pitch??>>

Well Apple doesn't seem to want to produce a decent 15" laptop and it appears that a lot of people are looking for an alternative.

Aciddan
Jul 14, 2003, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by TomA
Well Apple doesn't seem to want to produce a decent 15" laptop and it appears that a lot of people are looking for an alternative.

I've already decided on an alternative - I'm going 17" - I'm just waiting for the rev B :)

-- Dan :D

fpnc
Jul 14, 2003, 11:35 PM
I agree, any further delay in the introduction of an updated 15" PowerBook would seem very odd. If they don't update the G4 PowerBook line pretty soon it places into question the entire "year of the notebook" proclamation that Steve Jobs made in January. It could also produce a rather awkward timeline for the transition to the PowerBook G5. Can Apple really wait very much longer for updated G4 PowerBooks when the G5 is waiting in the wings? I mean, if G5 PowerBooks are going to ship in the first quarter of 2004 (still anyone's guess) then they don't have very many months left to introduce new G4s. I guess they could wait until September or October, but that might allow only a few months before there would be another turnover in the product line.

Thus, if we don't see speed-bumped or updated G4 PowerBooks in the next month or two I've got to believe one of the following (IMO, starting with most likely and ending with least likely):

1.) Apple is waiting for faster G4s from Motorola. I believe that the last reports I heard on this is that Motorola will be entering into volume production on a die-shrunk and improved G4 in the 4th quarter of this year. This could mean that new G4 PowerBooks might be delayed until October (but by then we might be getting fairly close to a G5 PowerBook, makes the timeline a little difficult).

2.) Apple's PowerBook line is in serious trouble because G4 development at Motorola has completely stalled. That is, there are no G4s faster than 1GHz that can be put into a notebook computer (heat and power concerns) and speed-bumped G4s won't be coming. Therefore, Apple will have to wait for the G5 (whenever that can be done).

3.) And least likely (IMO), the G5 PowerBook is closer than most expect. Perhaps we will see a G5 PowerBook this fall instead of next year. This would seem to go against Apple's public statements on both the future use of the G4 and the availability of a new G5 PowerBook (Apple says, "not anytime soon").

jbomber
Jul 15, 2003, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by fpnc
I agree, any further delay in the introduction of an updated 15" PowerBook would seem very odd. If they don't update the G4 PowerBook line pretty soon it places into question the entire "year of the notebook" proclamation that Steve Jobs made in January. It could also produce a rather awkward timeline for the transition to the PowerBook G5. Can Apple really wait very much longer for updated G4 PowerBooks when the G5 is waiting in the wings? I mean, if G5 PowerBooks are going to ship in the first quarter of 2004 (still anyone's guess) then they don't have very many months left to introduce new G4s. I guess they could wait until September or October, but that might allow only a few months before there would be another turnover in the product line.

Thus, if we don't see speed-bumped or updated G4 PowerBooks in the next month or two I've got to believe one of the following (IMO, starting with most likely and ending with least likely):

1.) Apple is waiting for faster G4s from Motorola. I believe that the last reports I heard on this is that Motorola will be entering into volume production on a die-shrunk and improved G4 in the 4th quarter of this year. This could mean that new G4 PowerBooks might be delayed until October (but by then we might be getting fairly close to a G5 PowerBook, makes the timeline a little difficult).

actually the last reports put Motorola's production schedule in line for Q3- read- anywhere from July to September. I dunno if a G5 powerbook is anywhere near being ready. it'll be about a year at the earliest before they get those all figured out. The G4 powerbooks should be ready by now. Apple's been in the business long enough to know when and where in the cycle new products need to be released.


2.) Apple's PowerBook line is in serious trouble because G4 development at Motorola has completely stalled. That is, there are no G4s faster than 1GHz that can be put into a notebook computer (heat and power concerns) and speed-bumped G4s won't be coming. Therefore, Apple will have to wait for the G5 (whenever that can be done).

I think Apple would have to drop Motorola had that been the case. Motorola's been slow these past years and the relationship has been rocky, but stalled production would have been the breaking point. Apple would have severed all ties and taken the whole operation to someone else.


3.) And least likely (IMO), the G5 PowerBook is closer than most expect. Perhaps we will see a G5 PowerBook this fall instead of next year. This would seem to go against Apple's public statements on both the future use of the G4 and the availability of a new G5 PowerBook (Apple says, "not anytime soon").

Not anytime soon. Check back around the same time next year.

Apple has to release a refreshed line ASAP. At the very least, they have to update the 15" powerbook. They're trying to make money on the fall college rush, and in order to capitalize on that, the new products need to be out well before late August when schools start.

Unfortunately, if they pass up the opportunity to present at Macworld, an event which has traditionally marked the release of new products, a lot of consumers holding out for those products will turn elsewhere for their computing needs. Hopefully Apple's thought this through and we'll see something VERY soon.

ZildjianKX
Jul 15, 2003, 12:44 AM
They may skip the back to school rush since that's what the ibooks are marketed for. Plus they already have the back to school educational ipod coupon... my guess is if the PBs don't hit this week or next week, they'll hit the week after the coupon expires.

fpnc
Jul 15, 2003, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by jbomber
...I dunno if a G5 powerbook is anywhere near being ready. it'll be about a year at the earliest before they get those all figured out. The G4 powerbooks should be ready by now. Apple's been in the business long enough to know when and where in the cycle new products need to be released.


I feel fairly certain that we'll see a G5-based PowerBook well before another year has passed. As far as Apple knowing "when and where...new products need to be released." Well, I don't think that explains the near disaster that has occurred with the PowerMac G4 products. For much of the last year Apple has been between a rock and a hard place as far as their pro desktop line is concerned. Motorola was slow to improve and the G5 wasn't ready, the result was that the PowerMac fell well behind the PC competition. Could we be entering a phase where the same will happen with the PowerBooks?

Originally posted by jbomber
I think Apple would have to drop Motorola had that been the case. Motorola's been slow these past years and the relationship has been rocky, but stalled production would have been the breaking point. Apple would have severed all ties and taken the whole operation to someone else.


Again, isn't this just what happened with the G4 PowerMac? Also, if Motorola is stalled who else could Apple turn to? Their only choice would be IBM's PPC970. Which leads to...PowerBook G5 availability...

Originally posted by jbomber
Not anytime soon. Check back around the same time next year.


I agree that the G5 PowerBook isn't likely to be available this year, but I do expect it sometime in 1st quarter 2004.

In any case, I do believe (or hope) that we'll see updated G4 PowerBooks fairly soon. But if it doesn't happen you've got to ask yourself, "Why?" So, if it doesn't happen soon, what would you give as an explanation? Apparently you don't agree with any of my suggestions (opinions, SWAGs, etc.). I guess your counter proposal is simply that Apple must ship updated PowerBooks ASAP and that it will happen because it must.

HasanDaddy
Jul 15, 2003, 02:43 AM
we know from experience now that Apple is very much in the business of shooting their load way too early

last summer, when they annouced the Dual 1.25's in July, they said that they wouldn't be shipped out until November

Same story on the 17" PB

If there was a G5 PB coming out anytime soon (or within the next 4 months) apple would've announced it

So if a G5 PB is coming out, I really don't see it happening until January at the earliest

plus - we know that Moto's new chip is almost ready

I'm usually optmistic about this, but I really don't think that apple would want to delay the annoucement, at all, of a G5 Powerbook

jbomber
Jul 15, 2003, 05:47 AM
Originally posted by fpnc
I feel fairly certain that we'll see a G5-based PowerBook well before another year has passed. As far as Apple knowing "when and where...new products need to be released." Well, I don't think that explains the near disaster that has occurred with the PowerMac G4 products. For much of the last year Apple has been between a rock and a hard place as far as their pro desktop line is concerned. Motorola was slow to improve and the G5 wasn't ready, the result was that the PowerMac fell well behind the PC competition. Could we be entering a phase where the same will happen with the PowerBooks?

I think the very fact that Apple spent a year in virtual developmental limbo with the desktop line is reason enough to suspect that they'd learned enough to prevent that from happening again with the powerbook line. Especially if the max speed was sitting dead in the water.

Originally posted by fpnc
Again, isn't this just what happened with the G4 PowerMac? Also, if Motorola is stalled who else could Apple turn to? Their only choice would be IBM's PPC970. Which leads to...PowerBook G5 availability...

Not necessarily. The 970 is available in extremely limited quantities as it is right now, and I doubt it'll be available in mass quantities AND running in a manner which allows it to be integrated into a laptop for quite some time. If the outlook from Motorola was 'nothing new, no advances whatsoever for a year', Apple would DEFINITELY have pursued other avenues to get chips. No one can even dream of sitting on the same maxed out processor for an entire year and expect to maintain, let alone gain marketshare.

In all likelihood, Apple would have had the more flexible G3 re-examined, repurposed, and renamed as the go-to processor. I think that most people will agree that the chip offered better all-around performance than the G4.

Originally posted by fpnc

I agree that the G5 PowerBook isn't likely to be available this year, but I do expect it sometime in 1st quarter 2004.

I think that's highly unlikely, all things considered. It seems like there's just way too much work to do before it's a remote possibility. For G5s to make their way into powerbooks for Q1 they'd have to have figured out the heating/power/etc issues rather quickly, and looking at the G5 desktop, you can tell that's quite a ways off.

Originally posted by fpnc

In any case, I do believe (or hope) that we'll see updated G4 PowerBooks fairly soon. But if it doesn't happen you've got to ask yourself, "Why?" So, if it doesn't happen soon, what would you give as an explanation? Apparently you don't agree with any of my suggestions (opinions, SWAGs, etc.). I guess your counter proposal is simply that Apple must ship updated PowerBooks ASAP and that it will happen because it must.

Well, if Apple wants to continue to see the sales slump miserably, they'll continue along without making any changes. But with the large number of pro users sitting on their hands waiting for an update- Apple has to release a new book sooner rather than later. Take the 15" Tibook for example. Sales have slowed to a crawl. It's terribly flawed and the consumer is waiting for it to be revamed. It's not getting any more attractive as it gathers dust, and apart from drastically slashing the prices, Apple can't expect to see many more units moved.

Between the beleaugered consumers waiting for a new machine, the back-to-school set, and the potential switchers, Apple has to come through for them or risk losing them to other laptop makers. Everyone who wants the current iteration of the powerbook line has already bought and the sales reflect that. It's time to update.

Apple has to ship updated powerbooks ASAP because otherwise they'll lose the foothold they had just begun to establish in the mobile computing world. If they don't satisfy the needs of the consumer, believe me, someone else will.

Orome
Jul 15, 2003, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by wondermite
Count on an update of some hardware or software product at MWCP.

Can we take all of our aggression built up over then past 6 months or so out on you if there are no updates??? j/k...

plutnicki
Jul 15, 2003, 08:14 AM
Well, 9:15am EST, nothing new on the Apple Store, or Apple pages...

I guess that means anything today is over?

9:30 tomorrow AM is our last remaining hope for a new PB this week?

Man...

...Jim

Orome
Jul 15, 2003, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by beefcake
If Apple doesn't update the 15" before the fall semester, then dude, I'm gettin' a Dell

:mad:

Dude, at UGA EVERYTHING is Dell, and (not that you are serious or anything) it's not worth it. You can save money, yes, but they will keep you coming back and spending and spending and spending as it breaks and breaks and breaks. However, pretty much any mass PC maker is like that. I think everyone is in agreement that the ONLY way to buy a PC IF you are going to use one is to build it yourself or pay someone else to do it...of course, that gets tough when you are dealing with notebooks...

thebossisback
Jul 15, 2003, 08:21 AM
I dont care what thinksecret says, the PB's WILL be updated. end of story!

thebossisback
Jul 15, 2003, 08:26 AM
I dont think there will be a G5 powerbook anytime soon. the first G4 powermac was out for a year and a half before the powerbook went G4

plutnicki
Jul 15, 2003, 08:33 AM
the power of pure will could bring out a new g4 powerbook...

I guess it always comes down to the same question. Whenever you buy a piece of technology, you HAVE to expect that in 6 months the same money could have bought you something better (faster, more features, better quality, etc..). OR, that what you bought will be simply cheaper.

I'm going to wait out today and tomorrow, and then probably snag a TiBook if nothing new comes. The 17 is just too big, I can't bring myself to go there.

If Apple misses this opportunity to introduce a new 15", I think they will have really torqued a lot of die hards... It'd better be one amazing new laptop!

...Jim

AppleMatt
Jul 15, 2003, 08:47 AM
Apple have already said the G5 isn't going into the PowerBook anytime soon. That rumor is dead.

AppleMatt

macnews
Jul 15, 2003, 10:32 AM
No new updates as of 9:20am (MST) on 7-15-03. Wait for Wednesday. IF Apple really is pissed at IDG and wants to announce NOT at a show then possibly next week would be good for a PB update. I don't agree with this model but think IF an update were coming out it would be either this week or next.

If Apple does decide to wait longer then doom on them. They are screwing themselves. I know of many college students (more than 5) that are waiting for an updated 15" PB. They won't go for the 12 (too small) or the 17 (too big and too much for the little added screen space).

I presonally am sick of waiting for an updated PB. It just doesn't make sense to NOT have AT LEAST air port extreme available and FW800. Backlite keyboard would be nice but those are the major differences between the 15 and 17. As to the Ti case surplus - give me a break! After how many months?? They knew probably a year ago they would have Al PB lines. They couldn't plan on phasing out the Ti casings then and not get such a back log?! BS. Plus, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the motherboard in the 17" the same as the 15" in terms of size? I thought I heard this when the 17" was announced and if true what would delay putting that in a 15" casing? IF they do have a large surplus of Ti casing slap that other motherboard in the sucker. Bam - an update! If sales are slow that would at least boost them.

I won't switch to a Dell but I also won't buy an Apple laptop until a 15" model is released - and I am not caring that much about a speed bump, just airport extreme, fw800 and would be nice backlite keyboard, maybe upgraded graphics card. Apple will also lose some people who are thinking about switching (as evident here already). Like it or not it is a reality in a competitive market.

Yo Steve or Apple engineers - PULL YOUR HEADS OUT AND UPDATE THE 15" PB - NOW!!!

p.s. All will be forgiven if they introduce the G5 in the PB line in the next 3 months. A big IF.

Simon Spero
Jul 15, 2003, 01:04 PM
If they don't announce anything tommorow, I think I'm going to have to go for the 17", despite my concerns about buying a laptop that comes with a built in mousepad...

Bruja
Jul 15, 2003, 01:22 PM
To Macnews ditto except for the very last sentnce. I have my own time table for purchasing a new P-Bkb even if I do purchase the "Frankenbook".
Truth is, we must be realistic about what our needs are when we purchase a laptop. I would make things easier if we all worked on a time table of our choosing and not Apple's. Only then would they get the message because the bottom line is: We are the customers whom would buy their products and invest in their stock. Were that demand to go down, then they would be back in the same boat they were before (following the PC makers instead of leading it).

visor
Jul 15, 2003, 02:46 PM
is that you can carry them around with you.
No need to store them in a booth long before, needing all that security to watch over it... ;)

Ikash
Jul 15, 2003, 02:52 PM
i hope they come out im going to a convention and am also incharge of a vr lab so not continuing my work and making sure people are updating the system is not an issue. apple is starting to slack off after the g5, the pb is long overdue and its seeming like apple is taking forever

Rezet
Jul 15, 2003, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by macnews
No new updates as of 9:20am (MST) on 7-15-03. Wait for Wednesday. IF Apple really is pissed at IDG and wants to announce NOT at a show then possibly next week would be good for a PB update. I don't agree with this model but think IF an update were coming out it would be either this week or next.

If Apple does decide to wait longer then doom on them. They are screwing themselves. I know of many college students (more than 5) that are waiting for an updated 15" PB. They won't go for the 12 (too small) or the 17 (too big and too much for the little added screen space).

I presonally am sick of waiting for an updated PB. It just doesn't make sense to NOT have AT LEAST air port extreme available and FW800. Backlite keyboard would be nice but those are the major differences between the 15 and 17. As to the Ti case surplus - give me a break! After how many months?? They knew probably a year ago they would have Al PB lines. They couldn't plan on phasing out the Ti casings then and not get such a back log?! BS. Plus, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the motherboard in the 17" the same as the 15" in terms of size? I thought I heard this when the 17" was announced and if true what would delay putting that in a 15" casing? IF they do have a large surplus of Ti casing slap that other motherboard in the sucker. Bam - an update! If sales are slow that would at least boost them.

I won't switch to a Dell but I also won't buy an Apple laptop until a 15" model is released - and I am not caring that much about a speed bump, just airport extreme, fw800 and would be nice backlite keyboard, maybe upgraded graphics card. Apple will also lose some people who are thinking about switching (as evident here already). Like it or not it is a reality in a competitive market.

Yo Steve or Apple engineers - PULL YOUR HEADS OUT AND UPDATE THE 15" PB - NOW!!!

p.s. All will be forgiven if they introduce the G5 in the PB line in the next 3 months. A big IF.

Yep, I'm a college student and I was waiting for an updated 15" PB since February. If they don't update anything by Mid August, I'm going for a PC laptop.

Ikash
Jul 15, 2003, 03:37 PM
Yep, I'm a college student and I was waiting for an updated 15" PB since February. If they don't update anything by Mid August, I'm going for a PC laptop.

rezet you prove my point on the other posts. apple need to get on it

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?threadid=31772&goto=newpost


there saying that apple won't lose alot of buisness if they don't release them really soon. i mean i have confidence in apple but they have to be realistic the 15" alPB is long overdue

billyboy
Jul 15, 2003, 04:42 PM
If as some mention, the PB is in a Powermac type non development zone ie Motorola stall with bumping the G4 and the G5 needs development time, maybe its time for Apple to get their marketing act together and actually get across the message of how productive a Mac is compared to a PC.

I have an old 867 Powerbook, and my mates have the latest 3 monthly released whizzy mega Mhz Pcs. I honestly fail to see how they have got a better computer experience than me. For goodness sake, Apple, do whatever it takes to show the world that a "slow" but cleverly formed Mac with OSX and iLife can skin the opposition with their great sounding specs. And when Apple are ready to launch a monster G5 PB, then let all the professionals who need them go wow while the majority user bask in "old technology" for a while longer.

My repetitive 2 cents worth

Apple

solvs
Jul 16, 2003, 03:24 AM
As has been pointed out, the rebates on Laptops are until Sept.

I think you're all taking this "year of the notebook" comment way to seriously. Apple will release new Books when they're available. If it's a small update, they'll probably release it right away, so they could be being made right now. They could be waiting for a steady supply. Or they don't want to announce something tiny that won't be available for awhile.

Do you really think they would have a bunch of new 'Books just lying around, waiting to be unveiled, dragging their feet?

They'll be released when they're ready.

You can buy a Dell, but you probably won't be happy. My Step-Moms Dell Notebook is terrible. It's heavy and the battery life alone makes it worthless. If you need a notebook NOW, buy a 17", or even 15", notebook. Unless you need the latest stuff, you'll probably be happy.

I see a minor speed and feature bump in Sept. (or sooner).

ZildjianKX
Jul 16, 2003, 04:00 AM
Originally posted by solvs
As has been pointed out, the rebates on Laptops are until Sept.

I was reading the terms of the rebates, and this is what it says:

Order and take possession of qualifying products from May 30, 2003, through September 27, 2003.

So... technically they could announce them in September and ship them on Monday (the 29th) and those people couldn't qualify for the rebate... since they wouldn't have received them by the 27th. Just food for thought.

solvs
Jul 16, 2003, 04:46 AM
Originally posted by ZildjianKX
I was reading the terms of the rebates, and this is what it says:

So... technically they could announce them in September and ship them on Monday (the 29th) and those people couldn't qualify for the rebate... since they wouldn't have received them by the 27th. Just food for thought.

If they ordered on the 27th, that would be the order date. Doesn't matter when they received it.

ZildjianKX
Jul 16, 2003, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by solvs
Doesn't matter when they received it.

Sure it does.

take possession

Very interesting clause for a rebate.

solvs
Jul 16, 2003, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by ZildjianKX
Sure it does.

If your order form says you paid for it on a certain day, that's when you bought it. Not when you receive it. Now if they didn't ship it to you right way, and waited to charge you, that would be another thing. Then there would be a lot of angry students. (That does sound weird though, order and take possession. I see what you mean)

-

Since there were no 'Book updates today, this scenario now looks even more likely. Shipping end of Sept. Tiny, quiet update. They'll lose some sales, but they'll sell off their inventory in the mean time. I'm thinking Moto doesn't have the new chips ready, so they wait. So we wait.

I doubt Apple would be sitting on new, ready to be released 15".

I really hope I'm wrong... maybe next week. :D

scifi451
Jul 16, 2003, 11:03 AM
I really hate waiting for the new the PB, I wish they would just release it so I can get it for school! :o

Can anyone point me towards more info on the PB rebate?

Schiffi
Jul 16, 2003, 11:12 AM
I hate that everyone is dissing the TiBook. Sure it's what? 4-5 months behind the Al's? The Ti, even if updated, will be made slower than the 17 to keep the 17 valuable. Right now the 15 is faster than the 12 and slower than the 17. My xBench score is 86.83, and the Ti is nowhere near slow. The only lackluster thing that may be in the Ti slowing it down is no AE nor DDR. I however do not use wireless much (not have a need for BT) however 3rd party addons will make the Ti BT capable and 802.11g ready. I haven't noticed any slowdown with SDR than DDR. The Ti is pretty much the fastest portable I've used and people need to stop comparing it to Apple's 17 which was designed to be faster.

jbomber
Jul 16, 2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Schiffi
I hate that everyone is dissing the TiBook. Sure it's what? 4-5 months behind the Al's? The Ti, even if updated, will be made slower than the 17 to keep the 17 valuable. Right now the 15 is faster than the 12 and slower than the 17. My xBench score is 86.83, and the Ti is nowhere near slow. The only lackluster thing that may be in the Ti slowing it down is no AE nor DDR. I however do not use wireless much (not have a need for BT) however 3rd party addons will make the Ti BT capable and 802.11g ready. I haven't noticed any slowdown with SDR than DDR. The Ti is pretty much the fastest portable I've used and people need to stop comparing it to Apple's 17 which was designed to be faster.

I think people are just dissappointed with the Tibook overall. with the introduction of the 12 and the 17, the expectation was that the problems with the 15 would be resolved with an impending update - ram, processor, screen hinges, airport signal, airport extreme, bluetooth, and (ugh!) that damn paint. When Apple kept passing opportune times to update the model, the problems just seemed to get worse and worse.

It's a decent machine, but when it's sitting next to its 12 and 17 inch cousins, its flaws really stand out.