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MacRumors
Aug 13, 2007, 03:41 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

9to5mac details (http://9to5mac.com/Apple-screen-sharing-leopard-application-review-098264) some screenshots from Apple's upcoming Screen Sharing feature in Leopard (Mac OS X 10.5).

"Screen Sharing" offers some functionality that was previously reserved for Apple Remote Desktop (http://www.apple.com/remotedesktop/) by allowing you to remotely control other Macs from Leopard. Apple conveniently added client-side support to Mac OS X 10.4.10, allowing Leopard (10.5) users to control older Tiger (10.4.10) Mac OS X installations.

The feature allows you to encrypt data across the connection and change the quality of the view. The feature was orignially described as a part of iChat when it was first introduced at the 2006 WWDC.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/13/leopard-screen-sharing-screenshots/)



G5Unit
Aug 13, 2007, 03:43 PM
This is great for when I need to help my sister out with something as she is in college and I am still at home in high school.

Corrosive vinyl
Aug 13, 2007, 03:46 PM
if I read that right, maybe it will also be easier for migration assistant to do its job. getting out the firewire, switching to a different boot mode, etc. etc. hassle that is!

aftk2
Aug 13, 2007, 03:46 PM
Awesome. I found myself really, really wanting this this past weekend while I sat on the couch with my work's MacBook Pro, manipulating files that were actually stored on my iMac in the basement.

Yes, I know there are alternatives....but I seem to want/need this so infrequently that's its just not worth the hassle to setup. Having it built-in will be awfully nice.

slu
Aug 13, 2007, 03:51 PM
Awesome. VNC works fine on my home network, but over the internet it sucks and is really slow.

This is one of the things I like about Windows better than on a Mac; Windows Remote Desktop is awesome. I use it all the time from Macs and PCs to control my work Windows PC and it could not be any better.

zweigand
Aug 13, 2007, 03:51 PM
Will "Back to my Mac" from .Mac allow this to work with Macs that are behind routers?

Poff
Aug 13, 2007, 03:55 PM
I would have hoped they'd kept this feature in iChat as you wouldn't have to set up anything.

For now, I'm using a service called logmein. You'll have to install an app on the mac you want to control, but the whole process is really seemless.

www.logmein.com

clevin
Aug 13, 2007, 03:57 PM
some of the remote desktop's function? so whats the main difference between them?

anyway, this is a good thing for apple, after all, windows XP has this for free for years.

rikers_mailbox
Aug 13, 2007, 03:57 PM
Great. :rolleyes:

This only makes it easier for friends + family to use me as their personal Tech Support. :cool:



edit: #501 baby!

zombitronic
Aug 13, 2007, 03:57 PM
Awesome. VNC works fine on my home network, but over the internet it sucks and is really slow.

This is one of the things I like about Windows better than on a Mac; Windows Remote Desktop is awesome. I use it all the time from Macs and PCs to control my work Windows PC and it could not be any better.

But Windows Remote Desktop doesn't actually let you "remote control" another machine, at least not in a way that lets you physically take over the screen and let the user see what you're doing.

This is great. I love ARD but the $300 price tag was never too enticing...although for as stable as it is compared to VNC, I suppose it's worth something. This is just another reason why I NEED Leopard NOW.

AliensAreFuzzy
Aug 13, 2007, 03:59 PM
Will "Back to my Mac" from .Mac allow this to work with Macs that are behind routers?

I belive so. That's one of the things I got really excited about during the keynote. I've always had to use Remote Desktop to admin my home computers while at school. The only problem with that is that I can only have the ports forwarded to one computer at a time. What would be really cool with "Back to my Mac" is if it worked as kind of a VPN so that I could access mulitple different computers behind a DHCP server.

Matthew Yohe
Aug 13, 2007, 04:00 PM
I would have hoped they'd kept this feature in iChat as you wouldn't have to set up anything.

For now, I'm using a service called logmein. You'll have to install an app on the mac you want to control, but the whole process is really seemless.

www.logmein.com

Oh jeez! I didn't realize they released a Mac client finally.

MacNemesis
Aug 13, 2007, 04:03 PM
some of the remote desktop's function? so whats the main difference between them?

ARD does way more than just screen sharing/VNC. It does package installation, logon/logoff/restart, system inventory, remote script execution and tons of other things applicable in a managed environment like a computer lab. Not necessary for the home folk, so this a great add to the base os.


http://www.apple.com/remotedesktop/

BornAgainMac
Aug 13, 2007, 04:04 PM
I hope the other person doesn't have to know their IP address or anything. I think having it built-in with iChat made it easier. The people that I need to help are almost like babies. It needs to be super easy.

clevin
Aug 13, 2007, 04:05 PM
But Windows Remote Desktop doesn't actually let you "remote control" another machine, at least not in a way that lets you physically take over the screen and let the user see what you're doing.
.

lol, are you sure about this? why I heard the opposite?

Poff
Aug 13, 2007, 04:09 PM
Oh jeez! I didn't realize they released a Mac client finally.

It's been around for a couple of months, I believe. It's a nice solution, but I haven't got around to using it a lot yet. I'm on a mission to install the client on all my Tiger-using friends, though.. :)

I hope the other person doesn't have to know their IP address or anything. I think having it built-in with iChat made it easier. The people that I need to help are almost like babies. It needs to be super easy.

true.. if they have to know the ip-adress, I'm sticking with logmein.com - but if it's in iChat that'll be killer! :)

zombitronic
Aug 13, 2007, 04:11 PM
I belive so. That's one of the things I got really excited about during the keynote. I've always had to use Remote Desktop to admin my home computers while at school. The only problem with that is that I can only have the ports forwarded to one computer at a time. What would be really cool with "Back to my Mac" is if it worked as kind of a VPN so that I could access mulitple different computers behind a DHCP server.

Just create another port for it in the Sharing prefs and add it to your router's port forwarding list. Then access it through "Yo.ur.I.P:newport#" (your real IP address and port number, of course.)

I think that should work. Can anyone confirm this?

Poff
Aug 13, 2007, 04:12 PM
Will "Back to my Mac" from .Mac allow this to work with Macs that are behind routers?

I believe so. And I also believe this might have been a reason for them to kill the feature in iChat - so they create a need for .mac and people believe it's worth the $99.. :)

nsbio
Aug 13, 2007, 04:14 PM
Does that mean that Macs with Leopard will be banned from any government machines? They do not allow anything, and recently even ordered everyone to disable iTunes sharing, so any possibility of "P2P remote controlling will be a major no-no.

Poff
Aug 13, 2007, 04:15 PM
Does that mean that Macs with Leopard will be banned from any government machines? They do not allow anything, and recently even ordered everyone to disable iTunes sharing, so any possibility of "P2P remote controlling will be a major no-no.

I guess admins can turn that feature on or off.. :)

bigandy
Aug 13, 2007, 04:17 PM
I like the fact that this is arriving at last, but it won't change my use of ARD3 :rolleyes:


But Windows Remote Desktop doesn't actually let you "remote control" another machine, at least not in a way that lets you physically take over the screen and let the user see what you're doing.

That's completely and utterly incorrect. You get that control, and you have the sharing ability.

Wayfarer
Aug 13, 2007, 04:18 PM
Leopard keeps getting better and better. Tis good news. :)

DaBrain
Aug 13, 2007, 04:20 PM
But Windows Remote Desktop doesn't actually let you "remote control" another machine, at least not in a way that lets you physically take over the screen and let the user see what you're doing.

Yes you can with the built in Remote Assistance.

I have not used Remote desk top to share files etc..... BUT you can send a Remote ASSISTANCE Invitation to another person and YES they can take complete control of your PC. I have done it a ton of times with familly and friends while using Skype to give them help, lessons etc.... Remote Assistance claims to have a built in Audio feature but I have never been able to get it to work. Skype worked great with it.

So you are correct that Remote Desktop can't share screen control but Remote Assistance can and it's been around for years! :)

Bob Knob
Aug 13, 2007, 04:20 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

9to5mac details (http://9to5mac.com/Apple-screen-sharing-leopard-application-review-098264) some screenshots from Apple's upcoming Screen Sharing feature in Leopard (Mac OS X 10.5).

"Screen Sharing" --snip-- Apple conveniently added client-side support to Mac OS X 10.4.10, allowing Leopard (10.5) users to control older Tiger (10.4.10) Mac OS X installations.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/13/leopard-screen-sharing-screenshots/)

I wonder if this is actually behind the crap screen redraws that are happening with ARD since the 10.4.10 update.

zombitronic
Aug 13, 2007, 04:22 PM
lol, are you sure about this? why I heard the opposite?

Positive. I've used RDC, ARD and VNC a lot. With Windows Remote Desktop Client, the screen you're controlling goes blank and you basically log in from the computer you're controlling from. You get their screen so it's not exactly sharing a "video" of the screen.

With VNC and ARD you can lock out the screen if you want, otherwise, while you're controlling the other computer, their cursor moves right along with your moves. You can also share control, so the user that you're helping out can take over if they need to. This way, if you are indeed helping out another user, they can see what's going on.

DaBrain
Aug 13, 2007, 04:23 PM
true.. if they have to know the ip-adress, I'm sticking with logmein.com - but if it's in iChat that'll be killer! :)

What's the big deal? There's several great widgets that tell the user their WAN and LAN IP's so that's a piece of cake.:D

Poff
Aug 13, 2007, 04:26 PM
What's the big deal? There's several great widgets that tell the user their WAN and LAN IP's so that's a piece of cake.:D

yeah, but if the friend you're helping out takes his macbook to the local internet-café to connect to the internet, taking control of his macbook can be hard. iChat would probably have helped there..

zombitronic
Aug 13, 2007, 04:30 PM
Positive. I've used RDC, ARD and VNC a lot. With Windows Remote Desktop Client, the screen you're controlling goes blank and you basically log in from the computer you're controlling from. You get their screen so it's not exactly sharing a "video" of the screen.

With VNC and ARD you can lock out the screen if you want, otherwise, while you're controlling the other computer, their cursor moves right along with your moves. You can also share control, so the user that you're helping out can take over if they need to. This way, if you are indeed helping out another user, they can see what's going on.

I stand corrected then. I've only been able to get it going where I connect, the Windows user gets logged off, then I log in with their account.

DaBrain
Aug 13, 2007, 04:31 PM
Positive. I've used RDC, ARD and VNC a lot. With Windows Remote Desktop Client, the screen you're controlling goes blank and you basically log in from the computer you're controlling from. You get their screen so it's not exactly sharing a "video" of the screen.

With VNC and ARD you can lock out the screen if you want, otherwise, while you're controlling the other computer, their cursor moves right along with your moves. You can also share control, so the user that you're helping out can take over if they need to. This way, if you are indeed helping out another user, they can see what's going on.

There sure seems to be some confusion between the differance of windows Remote Desktop and Remote Assistance of which both are in windows XP.

Remote desktop allows one to share files and Remote Assistance allows one to take complete control of the others PC over a LAN or WAN. I have used this many times.

Those that state you can't do this are simply wrong and have no idea what their talking about!

I look forward to this ferature coming to Leopard as many of my relatives are now switching to a mac and asking me for some help. Currently I use for the Mac desktop transporter and if the distant user is behind a firewall they need to use lighthouse. Along with that we use skype for discussions.

It's not as smooth as remote assistance but it does a pretty good job just the same.

hayesk
Aug 13, 2007, 04:40 PM
I'm not sure why the article said it was added to 10.4.10. The Apple Remote Desktop client has always been in Tiger and Panther. I've been using it on my in-law's Mac running 10.3.9 for a long time.

newmacuser13
Aug 13, 2007, 04:44 PM
I would have hoped they'd kept this feature in iChat as you wouldn't have to set up anything.



www.logmein.com

I agree. This is THE reason I want Leopard - the ability to EASILY help out the parents on the iMac I convinced them to buy. Putting it in iChat was a good idea - just start up an iChat and then push a button to share screen control. Ease of invoking sharing/control is crucial. Running it through iChat would have even allowed you to see if the "students" were "getting it" by seeing the face of the person you are helping out as you helped them.

I've used remote assistannt in Win XP to help them before iMac days, and found that it was cumbersome to walk them through the setup or request for assistance each time. I was hoping that this Leopard feature was going to be Apple version of remote assistant, but with a healthy dose of Apple's superior ease of use reputation.

zombitronic
Aug 13, 2007, 04:45 PM
This clears up what we've been debating. From Microsoft's site:

Remote Desktop
Remote Desktop, included with Windows XP Professional, enables you to connect to your computer across the Internet from virtually any computer, Pocket PC, or Smartphone. Once connected, Remote Desktop gives you mouse and keyboard control over your computer while showing you everything that's happening on the screen. With Remote Desktop, you can leave your computer at the office without losing access to your files, applications, and e-mail. Your sales force will be able to access the latest pricing sheet from on the road by using Remote Desktop in Windows XP Professional.

a few steps down...
The Remote Desktop window opens, and you see the desktop settings, files, and programs that are on your host computer, which in this example is your work computer. Your host computer remains locked, and nobody can access it without a password. In addition, no one will be able to see the work you are doing remotely.

Remote Assistance
Remote Assistance is a technology in Windows XP which enables Windows XP users to help each other over the Internet. With this tool, one user, called the "Expert," can view the desktop of another user, the "Novice." With the Novice's permission, the Expert can even share control of the Novice's computer to resolve issues remotely.

ARD and VNC are more like Remote Assistance.

newmacuser13
Aug 13, 2007, 04:50 PM
What's the big deal? There's several great widgets that tell the user their WAN and LAN IP's so that's a piece of cake.:D

Perhaps, but the key to this "Parental Assistance program" is ease of use - not run widgets, copy ip addresses, etc, but push a button and have the teacher-child help the student-parent.

ChrisA
Aug 13, 2007, 04:54 PM
Just create another port for it in the Sharing prefs and add it to your router's port forwarding list. Then access it through "Yo.ur.I.P:newport#" (your real IP address and port number, of course.)

I think that should work. Can anyone confirm this?

That's pretty much a common trick with NAT'd firewalls. Say you have four computers, you can SSH into any of them if you teach sshd to listen on a custom port number. Same with VNC, each machine must listen on it's own port number

offwidafairies
Aug 13, 2007, 05:04 PM
finally catching up to windows
just joking ;)

defeated
Aug 13, 2007, 05:06 PM
so, its pretty much like windows remote assistance? well i never used these sort of stuff anyway. its good apple putting it in 10.5, but osx users did't have it for years. nobody felt the need anyway. i know i have no chance using it for sure.

CANEHDN
Aug 13, 2007, 05:07 PM
We can only hope that it works across the WAN vs just LAN.

shamino
Aug 13, 2007, 05:20 PM
That's pretty much a common trick with NAT'd firewalls. Say you have four computers, you can SSH into any of them if you teach sshd to listen on a custom port number. Same with VNC, each machine must listen on it's own port number
The hosts can all listen on the same port number, as long as the router is configured to map different internet/WAN ports onto the correct LAN IP/port combinations.

My Linksys WRT54G router allows this. I assume many others can do this as well.

rlreif
Aug 13, 2007, 05:32 PM
Perhaps, but the key to this "Parental Assistance program" is ease of use - not run widgets, copy ip addresses, etc, but push a button and have the teacher-child help the student-parent.

Amen to that....

i have been using remote desktop to control my mini (used as an itunes jukebox) with my laptop on my LAN for years, and have often thought about how cool it would be to help my mom on the other side of the country... but if she cant figure out how to unmount her camera for the 50th time, expecting her to report to me her ip address....well ... not going to happen

EagerDragon
Aug 13, 2007, 05:43 PM
Does that mean that Macs with Leopard will be banned from any government machines? They do not allow anything, and recently even ordered everyone to disable iTunes sharing, so any possibility of "P2P remote controlling will be a major no-no.

I find it hard to believe that Gov allows you to have iTunes, LOL.

More than likely the firewall will block this service so it is available in the internal network for the Admin to control your Mac and to iinstall stuff on your machine.

Real security freaks would remove most of these client type apps and remove several of the server deamons to the bare bone required to operate as needed by the goverment or particular company. Obviously this assume that the machines are theirs and not your personnal machine. Oh and your account would not be Admin either.

As to personnal machines ..... In a security freak environment, they are not allowed to be brought in and not allowed to connect to the network.

If you only knew what I recommend, LOL, it would blow your mind as to all the stuff I would recomment to remove and all the stuff I would recomment to turn off. I would recommend a image disk with all the stuff removed be created and use to image all the machines. I would also run jobs in the middle of the night to ensure that none of the software has been changed and that no app has been installed. If you were to find a way to install something, next morning the security team would be excorting you out the door.

MarkMS
Aug 13, 2007, 05:44 PM
This is going to be soo sweet when it comes out.

AquaVita
Aug 13, 2007, 05:48 PM
Screen Sharing Screenshots

Man, say that 10 times fast.

EagerDragon
Aug 13, 2007, 05:48 PM
Positive if it is secured.

However, I like the .mac connection and the iChat solution so that the user at the machine being controlled does not need to be technical. and does not need to change the router every time a different macine needs to be controlled.

Marble
Aug 13, 2007, 06:21 PM
If you only knew what I recommend, LOL, it would blow your mind as to all the stuff I would recomment to remove and all the stuff I would recomment to turn off. I would recommend a image disk with all the stuff removed be created and use to image all the machines. I would also run jobs in the middle of the night to ensure that none of the software has been changed and that no app has been installed. If you were to find a way to install something, next morning the security team would be excorting you out the door.

Combined with your sig this is hilarious. ;)

mkrishnan
Aug 13, 2007, 06:35 PM
I'm not sure why the article said it was added to 10.4.10. The Apple Remote Desktop client has always been in Tiger and Panther. I've been using it on my in-law's Mac running 10.3.9 for a long time.

I'm confused about some terminology here...

Normally in the RDC / ARD terminology, the server is the computer that is running the task and the client is the computer that is providing the display.

So, when you connect to a Windows Terminal Server, for instance, and run remotely, you are the client and the TS is the server, logically.

In the same way, when your IT person takes over your desktop so they can run your computer, you are the server and they are the client.

For the functionality that ARD provides, OS X has always (or at least since Panther and possibly before) provided the server in the standard installation (which lets you share your computer, not the client (which lets you access a shared computer remotely). The client (Apple Remote Desktop Client) has never been free, although you can use any VNC program like Chicken of the VNC to gain access.

My understanding is that 10.4.10 added not the client to the technology in Leopard, but the server, and that the post #1 of this thread misstates this. Can anyone back me up or correct me? :o

ivnds
Aug 13, 2007, 07:31 PM
Sorry for going out of the subject, but is the menubar no longer semi-transparent? in this picture it looks like it isn't.

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5760/applescreensharing6wa1.png

mkrishnan
Aug 13, 2007, 07:49 PM
Sorry for going out of the subject, but is the menubar no longer semi-transparent? in this picture it looks like it isn't.

I think it is, and you're just seeing a (relatively solid) grey background behind it, netting a dark grey menubar. ;)

Huracan
Aug 13, 2007, 09:11 PM
I am going to join the side that says this is great if put together with iChat, so so feature if it is not. Local LAN scope is not going to help to people who need to help people remotely. In this I tip my hat to Microsoft and their remote assistance, it works great and it is very simple to get it running. I had great hopes that Apple was going to do the same with the iChat/screen sharing feature. Now it seems they are only willing to release a half baked feature for Local LAN. Apple is in bad need of an easy to use remote help tool that doesn't cost $300 they would sell quite a few more computers when people can help friends or family remotely in an easy way.

Analog Kid
Aug 13, 2007, 09:11 PM
Good news here! I've been running VNC and Vine Server at home and it's not terribly stable. I'll be super psyched if I can go in and fast user switch without getting knocked off the air.

I'm also glad this is in Finder, not iChat.

I think it is, and you're just seeing a (relatively solid) grey background behind it, netting a dark grey menubar. ;)
Looks like my Leopard will need a solid grey/white desktop...

mkrishnan
Aug 13, 2007, 09:15 PM
Looks like my Leopard will need a solid grey/white desktop...

I think, if you want an opaque menubar, all you have to do is edit a white bar across the top of your background image. You might even be able to get the rounded edges back, almost, if you make them black (they'll be grey, natch, but closer than nothing).

dlastmango
Aug 13, 2007, 09:20 PM
That's pretty much a common trick with NAT'd firewalls. Say you have four computers, you can SSH into any of them if you teach sshd to listen on a custom port number. Same with VNC, each machine must listen on it's own port number

Where can i learn more about setting up ports to do this type of remote desktop. If I can write down my IP address from my home system, can I access it from work. I have a D-Link Nat router on my network that i want to get past. I want to be able to transfer files from home to work.

Thanks for any assistance or links anyone can provide
Chris

ivnds
Aug 13, 2007, 09:23 PM
I think, if you want an opaque menubar, all you have to do is edit a white bar across the top of your background image. You might even be able to get the rounded edges back, almost, if you make them black (they'll be grey, natch, but closer than nothing).

I really hope they bring that rounded corner back, im gonna miss that one.

jamesi
Aug 13, 2007, 09:25 PM
This is great for when I need to help my sister out with something as she is in college and I am still at home in high school.

i was thinking kinda the same thing, it would be so much easier to help my mom and sisters with their computers with this

SiliconAddict
Aug 13, 2007, 09:53 PM
Do we know if Apple is making a Windows client so we can share with Windows users? Otherwise this is completely useless to me since I own a single Mac. :(

MacFly123
Aug 13, 2007, 11:06 PM
I would have hoped they'd kept this feature in iChat as you wouldn't have to set up anything.

www.logmein.com

Can anyone confirm that they have actually taken screen sharing out of iChat??? From what I saw in the latest build iChat still had the UI buttons for it even with this screen sharing in the finder. I really hope they leave it in iChat too.

How does this work? Do you both have to have .mac or be on a network, or can you do it with anyone online? Does it work with PCs or Macs? Is there an audio chat or anything like it was in iChat, or would you have to do that yourself now in addition?

MacFly123
Aug 14, 2007, 02:03 AM
yeah, but if the friend you're helping out takes his macbook to the local internet-café to connect to the internet, taking control of his macbook can be hard. iChat would probably have helped there..

I would also much rather prefer this to be in iChat. Even if it is pretty simple in Finder, to have it in Finder all of a sudden makes it seem like something only computer people will do, BUT to have it in iChat suddenly makes it something ANYONE can do.

I'm not talking about me, but i promise you thats the way it will seem to people that are kind of computer shy.

SPUY767
Aug 14, 2007, 05:27 AM
Will "Back to my Mac" from .Mac allow this to work with Macs that are behind routers?

Depends on the router. Some routers and firewalls are configured especially to not forward certain requests. My network at work, for instance, is an abomination. It only allows traffic on three ports, 80, 8080, and 21.

shamino
Aug 14, 2007, 08:40 AM
IIf you only knew what I recommend, LOL, it would blow your mind as to all the stuff I would recomment to remove and all the stuff I would recomment to turn off. I would recommend a image disk with all the stuff removed be created and use to image all the machines. I would also run jobs in the middle of the night to ensure that none of the software has been changed and that no app has been installed. If you were to find a way to install something, next morning the security team would be excorting you out the door.
And after you have security escort all of the company's creative talent from the building, you'll be the next person fired. Or the company will collapse when all of the skilled people are replaced with mindless drones.

AidenShaw
Aug 14, 2007, 09:38 AM
Originally Posted by EagerDragon
IIf you only knew what I recommend, LOL, it would blow your mind as to all the stuff I would recomment to remove and all the stuff I would recomment to turn off. I would recommend a image disk with all the stuff removed be created and use to image all the machines. I would also run jobs in the middle of the night to ensure that none of the software has been changed and that no app has been installed. If you were to find a way to install something, next morning the security team would be excorting you out the door.

And after you have security escort all of the company's creative talent from the building, you'll be the next person fired. Or the company will collapse when all of the skilled people are replaced with mindless drones.

It's not too unusual in the financial companies and some government agencies to do exactly that - although they simply re-image from the golden image every night.

arkmannj
Aug 14, 2007, 09:13 PM
Will "Back to my Mac" from .Mac allow this to work with Macs that are behind routers?

I would hope for your personal use it would, but I also hope that through iChat you can send invites, etc. to friends/family.

I have family and friends all over some with routers, some directly connected, this and that. Being able to have them send me an invite to share their screen would be priceless.

I'm no programmer, but could the remote desktop be done is a framework or something so that other applications could use it also (specifically I am thinking of Adium ?)

twoodcc
Aug 15, 2007, 03:54 PM
this is a nice feature. i'm sure i'll use it to help my girlfriend