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MacRumors
Sep 5, 2007, 08:01 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

With help from various readers, we've pulled out some other points of interest that were buried in today's announcements.

Demise of iPod Hi-Fi?
While Apple still has a product page (http://www.apple.com/ipodhifi/) for its high-end iPod Hi-Fi accessory, readers have noted that the product has been removed from Apple's online store. Think Secret had previously predicted the Hi-Fi's demise (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0708newipods.html), apparently due to lackluster sales.

New Universal Dock, Component Video
Apple has quietly unveiled a new Universal Dock (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=MB125G/A). It appears to be largely similar to the universal dock it replaces, and it supports all iPods released today as well as the 5G iPod (5G iPod "classic") and iPhone.

Apple has also added component video output to the iPods announced today via a component video cable (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=MB128LL/A). Apple states that component video output is currently supported with the iPod Nano (3G) and iPod classic (6G) at 480p or 576p, and the iPod Touch at 480i or 576i resolution.

Stay tuned for an analysis of today's announcements and how the rumor community did with its predictions.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/05/other-points-of-interest-ipod-hi-fi-universal-dock-ipod-component-video/)



fart
Sep 5, 2007, 08:03 PM
no iPhone support?

Epic Failure

onionperson654
Sep 5, 2007, 08:04 PM
Can anyone think of why the ipod touch would have a lower video-output resolution (interlaced rather than progressive)? Flash memory should be faster to access, and unless the ipod touch interface takes up much of the processing power, it seems as though it should be at least as fast?

Glass screen? Should we hope that they stick with the iphone's screen (that's what I'd guess) or cheap it off?

When will downloadable video and podcasts come to the ipod touch and iphone?

Applications such as notepad or mail?


I guess there are many questions left to be answered. Hopefully Apple will address them in software updates, or others will if Apple drops the ball.


P.S. I was thinking of getting an Archos 605, but that product is pretty much obsolete after being released September 1st, unless, of course, you want video and a hard drive.

longofest
Sep 5, 2007, 08:07 PM
Can anyone think of why the ipod touch would have a lower video-output resolution?

been wondering that myself. I've got to believe that at this point, its a software based limitation. The iPhone was really buggy when it came out, and no doubt the same team was working like hell to not only patch it up but get the iPod Touch out in time for the holidays and this event.

I believe the hardware itself should support the resolution, so you may see a software update in the future.

Eduardo1971
Sep 5, 2007, 08:08 PM
Yeah, now this is the fun part-seeing people's reactions and thoughts about today's announcements.

Apple stock when down a bit after gaining some prior to the announcements (no doubt fed by rampant speculation).

I might buy the 160GB iPod---it would have been nice to have iPod Touch carry a hard drive instead of the flash memory.

Anyway, I'm kinda hyped with the storage capacity of the "regular" iPod.

flopticalcube
Sep 5, 2007, 08:09 PM
no iPhone support?

Epic Failure

Apple's page says the component out supports the iPhone as well.


This accessory is compatible with the following:

iPod nano
3rd generation
(aluminum) iPod classic
iPod touch
iPhone

filman408
Sep 5, 2007, 08:12 PM
Why doesnt Apple take $200 off the Hi-Fi? Then it should sell better.

It is a great system anyways.

cxny
Sep 5, 2007, 08:16 PM
Can't think of a better looking iPod system for the money, I'll prolly try to grab a couple more of these b4 they are history. I hope it ain't so - I'd love Apple to continue in this direction.

Project
Sep 5, 2007, 08:18 PM
A wireless version of the iPod hifi would make sense, with wifi streaming from Touch/iPhone to it

mac 2005
Sep 5, 2007, 08:19 PM
I'm thinking it didn't happen, but I don't have iTunes on my work computer, and I haven't seen any direct mention of it here. Chances are, I'm overlooking it, but did the topic come up in today's event?

Whistleway
Sep 5, 2007, 08:20 PM
Are any iPod hi-fi on clearance? I would like to get one as well.

mkrishnan
Sep 5, 2007, 08:21 PM
Can't think of a better looking iPod system for the money, I'll prolly try to grab a couple more of these b4 they are history. I hope it ain't so - I'd love Apple to continue in this direction.

If I can find a reasonably priced one, I might pick one up also....

red41
Sep 5, 2007, 08:22 PM
I just don't see a reason for buying one of these when I can connect my ipod with a 20 dollar cable to pretty much any other stereo I want.

thesheep
Sep 5, 2007, 08:29 PM
The iPod HiFi looks nice but, in my opinion, sounds pretty rubbish. It makes sense to me that it is dropped. Steve Jobs raved about it when they launched it, saying he'd got rid of all his high-end expensive HiFi equipment and replaced it with the iPod HiFi. I hear that Mr Jobs is actually partially deaf.

ryanide
Sep 5, 2007, 08:30 PM
that's what it says on the store product page. Wonder if that's a software update? Will they add the same output for the previous iPod 5g via update?? or does it do that already??

commander.data
Sep 5, 2007, 08:31 PM
I guess the only explanation for the 480i is that the iPhone and Touch share the same components and there is a hardware limitation somewhere, maybe with the Samsung System on Chip processor. The Nano and Classic probably use the same components and may have been designed with TV output in mind, while it was just added to the iPhone and Touch as best it could so they weren't left behind.

And the 5G did output to TV before, but through the headphone connector. These new models all use the dock connector.

BornAgainMac
Sep 5, 2007, 08:31 PM
I think the iPod Hi-Fi sounded better than the comparable Bose system. I am glad I have this product.

ryanide
Sep 5, 2007, 08:32 PM
I love the Hi-Fi! But I'm sure they have something better up their sleeve...

EricNau
Sep 5, 2007, 08:35 PM
Glass screen? Should we hope that they stick with the iphone's screen (that's what I'd guess) or cheap it off?
I'm wondering the same thing.

Applications such as notepad or mail?
My guess is yes to notepad (eventually), but I doubt Mail or Google Maps will ever be added to the iPod Touch.


I sure hope the iPod Touch is compatible with my "old" universal dock.

longofest
Sep 5, 2007, 08:41 PM
that's what it says on the store product page. Wonder if that's a software update? Will they add the same output for the previous iPod 5g via update?? or does it do that already??

While the iPhone is on the store product page, there is a special note on the product that made me think twice before saying that the cable really supports the iPhone:

Note: Component video output to television is supported by iPod nano (third generation) and iPod classic at 480p or 576p resolution, and by iPod touch at 480i or 576i resolution.

fpnc
Sep 5, 2007, 08:41 PM
Apple's page says the component out supports the iPhone as well.

Unfortunately, I think that is an "epic" mistake. If you read the iPhone specs it still says nothing about video output. Thus, this appears to be an error in the description on the Apple Store (you'd think that someone would actually review the specs before they place such information on the store).

As far as the difference in the video output on the iPod touch and the other new iPods it looks like both the iPod touch and the iPhone lack support for the higher bit rate h264 video formats (read the specs, Apple has documented this difference). Thus, the iPhone and its close cousin the iPod touch apparently don't have as good of video support as do the more traditional iPods. It's amazing that even the new iPod nano beats both the iPhone and iPod touch in video capability (outputs and support for higher bitrates).

My hope is that the iPhone will eventually get video output (through a software upgrade), but based upon the current specs that Apple has published it's nowhere to be found (on the iPhone).

ryanide
Sep 5, 2007, 08:42 PM
Apple Component AV Cable Part Number: MB128LL/A $49
(component (Y, Pb, and Pr) video and red/white analog audio ports)
supports: iPod nano 3g, iPod classic, iPod touch, iPhone
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=184EAE7D&nplm=MB128LL/A


Apple Composite AV Cable Part Number: MB129LL/A $49
(composite video and red/white analog audio ports)
supports: iPod with color display, iPod with video, iPod nano 3g, iPod classic, iPod touch, iPhone
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=185CC5FE&nplm=MB129LL/A

timnosenzo
Sep 5, 2007, 08:43 PM
I really like my iPod Hi-Fi, and think it sounds pretty damn good. Sad to see it go--but I'm more surprised that they never tried to improve it at all.

Derekuda
Sep 5, 2007, 08:51 PM
One thing to note, is that all the new ipod's only take 10.4.8 and above!!! No love for panther users and older OSX's. :(

longofest
Sep 5, 2007, 08:51 PM
Apple Component AV Cable Part Number: MB128LL/A $49
(component (Y, Pb, and Pr) video and red/white analog audio ports)
supports: iPod nano 3g, iPod classic, iPod touch, iPhone
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=184EAE7D&nplm=MB128LL/A


Apple Composite AV Cable Part Number: MB129LL/A $49
(composite video and red/white analog audio ports)
supports: iPod with color display, iPod with video, iPod nano 3g, iPod classic, iPod touch, iPhone
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=185CC5FE&nplm=MB129LL/A

Thanks, but I'm in the camp Apple listing the iPhone compatibility with the Component Cable is an error, though it may come in the future with a software update.

davebarnes
Sep 5, 2007, 08:52 PM
Can't think of a better looking iPod system for the money, I'll probably try to grab a couple more of these before they are history.

http://www.audioengineusa.com/

Better "high fidelity".
Better looking.
Better.

aswitcher
Sep 5, 2007, 08:57 PM
Anyone got a picture of the"Stand" the new iPod Touch comes with as standard?

viperguy
Sep 5, 2007, 08:58 PM
Anyone got a picture of the"Stand" the new iPod Touch comes with as standard?

Well, no one has a touch pod yet so I suppose that no one has the stand yet... right? :p

flopticalcube
Sep 5, 2007, 09:00 PM
Unfortunately, I think that is an "epic" mistake. If you read the iPhone specs it still says nothing about video output. Thus, this appears to be an error in the description on the Apple Store (you'd think that someone would actually review the specs before they place such information on the store).

As far as the difference in the video output on the iPod touch and the other new iPods it looks like both the iPod touch and the iPhone lack support for the higher bit rate h264 video formats (read the specs, Apple has documented this difference). Thus, the iPhone and its close cousin the iPod touch apparently don't have as good of video support as do the more traditional iPods. It's amazing that even the new iPod nano beats both the iPhone and iPod touch in video capability (outputs and support for higher bitrates).

My hope is that the iPhone will eventually get video output (through a software upgrade), but based upon the current specs that Apple has published it's nowhere to be found (on the iPhone).

It is listed in the iPhone's Accessories page (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nnmm=browse&mco=EEBCC376&node=home/iphone_accessories/cables_docks). Yet another "epic" error?

nagromme
Sep 5, 2007, 09:01 PM
It is listed in the iPhone's Accessories page (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nnmm=browse&mco=EEBCC376&node=home/iphone_accessories/cables_docks). Yet another "epic" error?

The new Universal Dock clearly DOES work with iPhone--and gives it remote control functionality too. But the video-out feature may not be for iPhone. I'd like to have that answered with more certainty. Maybe the iPhone's own dock can't do video, but this one with the remote CAN do video even with an iPhone. That would be great!

My hope is that the iPhone will eventually get video output (through a software upgrade), but based upon the current specs that Apple has published it's nowhere to be found (on the iPhone).

Me too. One of the 101 uses I'd have for an iPhone is to take TV shows/movies to friends' houses and watch the on their TV--just like you might take a stack of DVDs. I'd also like to be able to give presentations, as I can from my old 3G iPod, on any old TV--just by saving the slides in my photo library.

(Composite-out is the lowest-common-denominator and most useful to me. The new dock seems to have both composite and component, giving up S-video. Works for me!)

The new Nano is a pretty cool way to show photos on a friend's TV--and it can fit a LOT of photos!

Frisco
Sep 5, 2007, 09:06 PM
One thing to note, is that all the new ipod's only take 10.4.8 and above!!! No love for panther users and older OSX's. :(

You want support for older OSes? Switch to Microsoft! I am serious MS beats Apple anyway with upgrades.

longofest
Sep 5, 2007, 09:08 PM
Me too. One of the 101 uses I'd have for an iPhone is to take TV shows/movies to friends' houses and watch the on their TV--just like you might take a stack of DVDs. I'd also like to be able to give presentations, as I can from my old 3G iPod, on any old TV--just by saving the slides in my photo library.

(Composite-out is the lowest-common-denominator and most useful to me. The new dock seems to have both composite and component, giving up S-video. Works for me!)

The new Nano is a pretty cool way to show photos on a friend's TV--and it can fit a LOT of photos!

If you look at the video specs between all of the current iPod models that support video (iPod nano 3G, iPod classic 6G, iPod touch 1G) and the iPhone, the specs are EXACTLY the same.

I think its pretty clear that the hardware support is consistent. I really think that this functionality will be brought via software update.

phytonix
Sep 5, 2007, 09:16 PM
I have Hi-Fi and it is good, compact. Best speakers I ever had, also the most expensive.

I think they really should make a wifi Hi-Fi which has the abilities to control iTunes. That will sell better than this one. Didn't they say they distributed a whole bunch of iTunes? Then make Hi-Fi the iTunes accessory instead of iPod.

Rocketman
Sep 5, 2007, 09:20 PM
9-5-07 12:11pm Pacific I said:


http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...More=MB128LL/A

Apple Component AV Cable

Easily connect your iPod to the component video inputs on a TV. The cable also features audio and USB connectors, and a USB Power Adapter is included in the box.
Price: $49.00

Connect an iPod to your television with the Apple Component AV Cable, gather up your friends, and watch videos or slideshows together on the big screen. You can also connect the Component AV Cable to your stereo or powered speakers for a room-filling audio experience.

The Component AV Cable connects to your iPod or Universal Dock via the 30-pin dock connector and to your TV, home theater receiver, or stereo receiver via the component (Y, Pb, and Pr) video and red/white analog audio ports. The cable also features a USB connector that you can plug into a power source, such as a computer or the included USB Power Adapter.

Note: Component video output to television is supported by iPod nano (third generation) and iPod classic at 480p or 576p resolution, and by iPod touch at 480i or 576i resolution.

Rocketman

PDE
Sep 5, 2007, 09:29 PM
Thank goodness they discontinued the ipod Hifi. What an embarrassment for Apple's design team! It may sounds okay, but it's one of the ugliest Apple-designed thing ever. Bye bye - you won't be missed. :)

ezekielrage_99
Sep 5, 2007, 09:32 PM
Why doesnt Apple take $200 off the Hi-Fi? Then it should sell better.

It is a great system anyways.

I agree it's too expensive, if it was cheaper people would buy it.

As for me I'm stuck whether or not to get a 160GB iPod Classic or 16GB iPod Touch... Decisions, decisions....

viperguy
Sep 5, 2007, 09:33 PM
Thank goodness they discontinued the ipod Hifi. What an embarrassment for Apple's design team! It may sounds okay, but it's one of the ugliest Apple-designed thing ever. Bye bye - you won't be missed. :)

I think it's a good iPod accessory. Or was :p
I would like to see a version 2.0 of it...

slackpacker
Sep 5, 2007, 09:36 PM
Look at it again it does have iPhone support for video out:D

barcodebawtv
Sep 5, 2007, 09:40 PM
I Love my Hi-Fi. My surround sound was giving me headaches with wires hanging all around my apartment. I knew that it wouldn't give the surround effect, but I also wanted it to be portable, The hi-fi pumps very clear and very loud sound. I love it.

dansgil
Sep 5, 2007, 09:44 PM
So can we still use the headphone jack for video-out, or will we be forced to use the new dock connector video cables? I really don't want to have to spend extra money on a cable.

aven
Sep 5, 2007, 09:46 PM
http://www.audioengineusa.com/

Better "high fidelity".
Better looking.
Better.

Agreed. These sound a lot nicer, the Apple Hi-fi sound quality is rubbish, for what it costs. Plus the audioengine A5 charges your ipod and has dock for an airport express. :)

Anonymous Freak
Sep 5, 2007, 09:50 PM
My guess is that the video out hardware has been in the iPhone all along, untapped because it uses different pinout than the older iPod Video. Note that the older Video and Color iPods are specifically excluded from the Component Display compatibility.

Both video cables list iPhone, the new Universal Dock lists "Display photos or video on a TV or other video device using a Component AV Cable or Composite AV Cable if you have an iPod that plays video." And Apple is quite markedly considering the iPhone to be an iPod (Current apple.com headline: "Meet the best iPods ever." with the iPhone included.) The iPhone's accessories listing shows the AV cables.

My guess is that someone accidentally left the iPhone off the 480p vs. 480i listing is all.

fpnc
Sep 5, 2007, 10:12 PM
If you look at the video specs between all of the current iPod models that support video (iPod nano 3G, iPod classic 6G, iPod touch 1G) and the iPhone, the specs are EXACTLY the same.

I think its pretty clear that the hardware support is consistent. I really think that this functionality will be brought via software update.

Apple has changed the specs that they had posted from earlier today. They altered (upgraded) the specs for the iPod touch but the iPhone is still listed as slightly less capable than that for the new iPods (go to the actual technical specifications for the iPhone: http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html ).

Specifically the iPhone says: Video formats supported: H.264 video, up to 1.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Low-Complexity version of the H.264 Baseline Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; H.264 video, up to 768 Kbps, 320 by 240 pixels, 30 frames per second, Baseline Profile up to Level 1.3 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats

while the iPods say: H.264 video, up to 1.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Low-Complexity version of the H.264 Baseline Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; H.264 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Baseline Profile up to Level 3.0 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats

Note the difference in the second part of the spec, the H.264 Baseline Profile (not the beginning "Low-Complexity" section).

Whether this is just another mistake (as they made earlier today) or a true difference I can't say. Whether the next firmware upgrade for the iPhone will add video output I also can't say, but as of today (and as it was yesterday) the iPhone does not do video out.

NewSc2
Sep 5, 2007, 10:18 PM
Maybe it does work with the iphone, but it just charges it and does audio out?

nagromme
Sep 5, 2007, 10:24 PM
If you look at the video specs between all of the current iPod models that support video (iPod nano 3G, iPod classic 6G, iPod touch 1G) and the iPhone, the specs are EXACTLY the same.

I think its pretty clear that the hardware support is consistent. I really think that this functionality will be brought via software update.

I'd like to think so, but the vaguely conflicting wording gives me doubts about the iPhone having video-out. Which way was the error/omission made? Fingers crossed :)

akac
Sep 5, 2007, 10:31 PM
I think the simple answer is that the iPod Touch is not out yet and when it is - it will support all those things. The iPhone is out now, but the software update required to bring it to the same specs as the iPod Touch is not out yet so they can't list those things.

the vj
Sep 5, 2007, 10:31 PM
No one remembers...

When Jobs was introducing the iPhone he was playing with it and you were able to watch what he was doing on real time on the big screen. Take a look at the keynote again. His iPhone has a wire underneath for video and the resolution was perfect by the way.

That was probably the best feature nobody noticed.

I was counting the days for them to release that function to the public.

Now, I do not know why is so much confusion, every video cable says with what is compatible, take a look at the apple web site.

Then, the ipod Hifi still on apple's site, I just did a Google search and is there, is not discontinued.

edgar_is_good
Sep 5, 2007, 10:33 PM
Thanks, but I'm in the camp Apple listing the iPhone compatibility with the Component Cable is an error, though it may come in the future with a software update.

Could be it supports the iPhone presently for photo output, but not video output? Just a thought...

queshy
Sep 5, 2007, 10:38 PM
will my old universal dock (for 5 G) work with iPod touch?

fpnc
Sep 5, 2007, 10:43 PM
Maybe it does work with the iphone, but it just charges it and does audio out?

That would be entirely consistent with how the descriptions appear on the Apple Store. I think it's becoming clear that the iPhone won't have video out. That's disappointing because I had assumed for some time that it would only need a fireware/software upgrade but now I'm not so sure. Only time will tell (I guess).

In any case, that $149 iPod nano is looking like a nice alternative for video output and frankly I find the iPhone a little lacking as a true iPod (the recessed headphone jack that requires an adapter for just about every existing set of headphones, the lack of physical controls/buttons for playback control, the size, etc.). The touch screen is great for the phone and other tasks but it's not really as nice as having dedicated controls for the audio playback. However, the nano looks like a nice way to carry audio and video in your pocket and it's something you can take on trips and use to show photos and videos on a large screen TV. More storage would be nice (for the nano) but even 4GB will get me through several days of music and a few videos (or even one or two movies if needed).

The other thing that bugs me about the iPhone is that it has no alarm (bedtime) function. Certainly they've got to add this in a future firmware update, but even the nano has an alarm so why not the iPhone (yet).

ElBerserko
Sep 5, 2007, 10:48 PM
Anyone got a picture of the"Stand" the new iPod Touch comes with as standard?

There's a picture of the iPod touch sitting on one on the gallery on Apple's site. Can't see the entire thing though.

http://www.apple.com/ipodtouch/gallery/index10.html

qpid
Sep 5, 2007, 10:51 PM
Apple also release a new nano armband today:


http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=F04EF897&nplm=MB130G/A

fpnc
Sep 5, 2007, 11:02 PM
No one remembers...

When Jobs was introducing the iPhone he was playing with it and you were able to watch what he was doing on real time on the big screen. Take a look at the keynote again. His iPhone has a wire underneath for video and the resolution was perfect by the way.

That was probably the best feature nobody noticed...<snip>...

You make a somewhat valid point, but you also need to remember that what Steve Jobs demos on the stage is not always the same thing that ships. In the past they've actually created special hardware just for the demos. The classic example was the original Macintosh where the system that Steve Jobs used for the demo was a one-of-a-kind unit with extra memory (512KB) whereas the actual product only had 128KB. He did a similar thing when they introduced the Next computer, he demonstrated an optical drive on the system that was on stage but the video feed showing the results from the demo were actually performed by a specially configured set of hardware that was behind the curtain (literally).

They may not have done anything exactly like that for the iPhone demo but you can never be completely certain either way. This is just another component of the so-called and fabled Steve Jobs reality distortion field (i.e. sometimes the reality is distorted).

In any case, as I've already suggested we won't really know one way or another until we get the next firmware upgrade on the iPhone (and maybe not even then).

voidptr
Sep 5, 2007, 11:03 PM
The other thing that bugs me about the iPhone is that it has no alarm (bedtime) function. Certainly they've got to add this in a future firmware update, but even the nano has an alarm so why not the iPhone (yet).

There's an alarm in the clock app on the iPhone.

twoodcc
Sep 5, 2007, 11:06 PM
no iPhone support?

Epic Failure

yeah, i was wondering where's the iPhone support also.

Antares
Sep 5, 2007, 11:10 PM
The iPod Hi-Fi is disappearing because Apple is gearing up to release the iPod Hi-Fi 2. It has to be true.

fpnc
Sep 5, 2007, 11:23 PM
There's an alarm in the clock app on the iPhone.

True, but it doesn't wake you to music like an iPod does (since like several years now). I was trying to make a comparison to the iPod's audio and video features versus the current iPhone. That's why I think the iPhone isn't the "best iPod" ever (as Steve Jobs said when the iPhone was introduced). The iPhone use to have the best video experience among the iPods (ignoring the lack of video out) but it's not really the "best" iPod (IMO).

That said, I think the iPhone is a great communications device (phone and wireless internet) with an okay to good audio experience in comparison to the iPod. I own both (iPhone and iPod) so I'm speaking from experience (granted, my experience and preference -- your mileage may vary). With the recent price reduction I think the iPhone is a truly great value and I'd now recommend it to anyone who wants an upscale phone -- if they can also "stomach" the change in carrier to ATT. By the way, the ATT service in my area is pretty good, even the EDGE throughput is tolerable (measured at about 150kbps, fine for occasional web browsing, RSS, text-only email, etc).

longofest
Sep 5, 2007, 11:29 PM
Apple has changed the specs that they had posted from earlier today. They altered (upgraded) the specs for the iPod touch but the iPhone is still listed as slightly less capable than that for the new iPods (go to the actual technical specifications for the iPhone: http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html ).

Specifically the iPhone says:

while the iPods say:

Note the difference in the second part of the spec, the H.264 Baseline Profile (not the beginning "Low-Complexity" section).

Whether this is just another mistake (as they made earlier today) or a true difference I can't say. Whether the next firmware upgrade for the iPhone will add video output I also can't say, but as of today (and as it was yesterday) the iPhone does not do video out.

jesus... eagle eyes. I didn't catch those slight discrepancies. They might have different hardware after-all (though they were able to update the 5G ipod to support higher bitrate stuff when the 5.5G came out)

laidbackliam
Sep 5, 2007, 11:35 PM
apple hi fi right here
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/laidbackliam/Picture2-1.jpg


and again
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a51/laidbackliam/Picture3-1.jpg

can't find it on the main store, but through the iTunes tab on the apple.com page, you can still find the hi fi.

so, the iPhone is a business end, the :apple:tv is a hobby, and the hi fi is the red headed stepchild?

Cleverboy
Sep 5, 2007, 11:47 PM
Everyone who's still thinking the iPhone will be excluded from the video-out the iPod Touch will have is unfortunately so beaten-down as to be overly pessimistic. The iPhone will support video out with the release of the new component/composite cables. It's NOT a typo. It's not a dream. It's not an error. It will not go through the headphone jack, but through the 30 pin connector. They will need to update the software, same as they will update the iPhone software to work with the iTWS. The only REAL question is, will it allow the viewing of applications like Safari, or the Quicklook playback of Keynote presentations. Ponder, ponder... Clearly, that's the only rub.

~ CB

speck2001
Sep 6, 2007, 12:04 AM
I've always been frustrated with iPod docks because they are of no use if you have a protective "skin" on your iPod. I shouldn't have to peel it off every time I want to dock it. To use a car adapter, I had to cut away a big chunk of the skin on the bottom, just so the adapter would "click" into place.

They just need to change the shape a bit to make the actual connector stick up a bit higher to accomodate the thickness of skins. This can be standardized so that all iPod "sanctioned"/"blessed" accessories have to follow the dimensions. Or, at least include a dock adapter for this. Or, have the skin makers leave the bottom/dock area exposed entirely.

fpnc
Sep 6, 2007, 12:28 AM
...<snip>...The only REAL question is, will it allow the viewing of applications like Safari, or the Quicklook playback of Keynote presentations. Ponder, ponder... Clearly, that's the only rub.

~ CB

That's not a question that is hard to answer. No, it won't offer Safari output to the TV (no way, no how). As for Keynote, you'd simply have to convert the presentation to a QuickTime video and then show that at 640x480.

aafuss1
Sep 6, 2007, 12:30 AM
Dock looks similar to the older model-but the shape of the IR sensor cover is now pill shaped.

Is the component video cable-the second one using a dock connector?

sminman
Sep 6, 2007, 12:33 AM
If you go to the "Which iPod are you?" section, the Hi-Fi is the first thing that is on the list.

http://www.apple.com/ipod/accessories/

This is an updated list.

If you click on the "Buy Now" option for the Hi-Fi, it says:
"The item you have selected is currently not available from the Apple Store. Please note that Apple cannot guarantee availability of any product.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wo/StoreReentry.wo?productLearnMore=M9867LL/A

I don't think the Hi-Fi is discontinued, I think they are refreshing it.

brucku
Sep 6, 2007, 12:35 AM
I don't think this is the first time jobs has output menus and cover art from the ipod. the question is ... will this new dock provide that feature? Can I finally output the ipod's "now playing" cover art to my TV???

I really want to wire one of these into the video in on my navigation system, but have never been able to.

Hodgi
Sep 6, 2007, 12:37 AM
I think I know why the ipods are progressive in output and the iphone and ipod touch are interlaced.

Using interlaced graphics for the ipod touch and the iphone was a good decision due to all the extensive graphic effects that happen on an iphone and the new ipod touch. Because of all this motion and animation using an interlaced format for the screen makes since because the animations will appear smoother and look better on an interlaced signal. It also could be a limitation of the graphic processing of the iphone / ipod touch.

Anyone else get what i am trying to say?

Mr. Fong
Sep 6, 2007, 12:39 AM
I was able to get my hands on a Hi-Fi at 50% off clearance at the Target where I work after we discontinued them; needless to say I love it :D

damienvfx
Sep 6, 2007, 12:53 AM
Goodbye apple. I actually liked you until this move. Good luck taking over more of the market share when you have proven to be no better than MicroSoft. At least they don't pretend to be something other than what you are.

Rychy
Sep 6, 2007, 01:15 AM
I wouldn't mind picking up an iPod Hi-Fi at a nice clearance price...

VL-Tone
Sep 6, 2007, 01:27 AM
No one remembers...

When Jobs was introducing the iPhone he was playing with it and you were able to watch what he was doing on real time on the big screen. Take a look at the keynote again. His iPhone has a wire underneath for video and the resolution was perfect by the way.

That was probably the best feature nobody noticed.

I was counting the days for them to release that function to the public.

Now, I do not know why is so much confusion, every video cable says with what is compatible, take a look at the apple web site.

Then, the ipod Hifi still on apple's site, I just did a Google search and is there, is not discontinued.

If you watch the iPhone keynote, just before Jobs first demoes the iPhone, you'll hear him say "I've got some special iPhones uphere that got a special board in them so I get digital video out..."

Granted, he said "digital video out", while these new cable will only output analog video, but many people including me assumed that it meant that the iPhone didn't have the hardware to output video, period.

Apple did some very similar mistake before when listing the iPod nano 1st or 2nd gen as being compatible with the older video cable, when obviously it wasn't the case. Adding that the iPhone video out wasn't listed as a feature before, that's why we're skeptical about it.

nagromme
Sep 6, 2007, 02:35 AM
Goodbye apple. I actually liked you until this move. Good luck taking over more of the market share when you have proven to be no better than MicroSoft. At least they don't pretend to be something other than what you are.

So which part hurts you so cruelly? :p

* The HiFi being discontinued

* A new Universal Dock option

* Component video out

?

tmornini
Sep 6, 2007, 02:40 AM
Can't think of a better looking iPod system for the money, I'll prolly try to grab a couple more of these b4 they are history. I hope it ain't so - I'd love Apple to continue in this direction.

It needed to be $50 less, and include direct WiFi repeater/AirTunes capability.

I'd spread those damn things through my house and office, give myself a great connectivity cloud and music where ever I'm at.

And the WiFi iDevices need to support AirTunes too.

Then they'd sell a TON of these.

MacinJosh
Sep 6, 2007, 03:11 AM
I think I know why the ipods are progressive in output and the iphone and ipod touch are interlaced.

Using interlaced graphics for the ipod touch and the iphone was a good decision due to all the extensive graphic effects that happen on an iphone and the new ipod touch. Because of all this motion and animation using an interlaced format for the screen makes since because the animations will appear smoother and look better on an interlaced signal. It also could be a limitation of the graphic processing of the iphone / ipod touch.

Anyone else get what i am trying to say?

Impossible. LCD panels cannot display interlaced video, no way. Every LCD panel that is fed an interlaced signal has to process the picture to convert it into progressive (called de-interlacing). Interlaced picture only works CRT technology.

Using interlaced graphics would certainly defeat the point that you're trying to make as the interlaced picture would require more processing power than displaying a progressive picture.

Anyway, once on the dock and displaying the picture on the TV, the iPod itself does not display the video anymore. So even though the signal is interlaced to the TV I believe it's not because the iPod/iPhone does not have the power, it's more to do with hardware.

Joshua.

DaftUnion
Sep 6, 2007, 03:43 AM
I hope they still keep the iPod Hi-Fi because the for the couple of times that I've heard it compared to a Bose Sounddock, the thing sounds extremely impressive.

Marx55
Sep 6, 2007, 05:04 AM
Could the new iPods and in particular the iPod touch be used for Keynote and Powerpoint presentations using wired or wireless video projectors? The iPod touch has WiFi and also component and composite video output. Thanks.

dalvin200
Sep 6, 2007, 05:42 AM
are we saying that the new universal dock doesn't work with current ipods? (pre-yesterdays ipods)

i'd be bummed if that was the case! huh?

Evangelion
Sep 6, 2007, 06:13 AM
One thing to note, is that all the new ipod's only take 10.4.8 and above!!! No love for panther users and older OSX's. :(

Maybe it's time to upgrade?

GregA
Sep 6, 2007, 07:09 AM
And the 5G did output to TV before, but through the headphone connector. These new models all use the dock connector.The 5G could use a dock....

Are you saying you think I won't be able to take a video cord with me on my new Ipod Classic, and simply plug it into a TV?

Dwight Schrute
Sep 6, 2007, 07:35 AM
I love my iPod HiFi! I pity those of you who snoozed and lost.

fpnc
Sep 6, 2007, 07:44 AM
As for the video out on the "old" dock connector I can't believe that Apple would obsolete that with the new iPods given that there are so many devices that offer video support for the existing iPods through the dock connector. Just look at all of the video playback devices that Apple offers in the Apple Store. Thus I suspect that the new iPods will still output video to these pre-existing devices.

As for the new universal dock with the "old" iPods Apple already says that the new dock can output video from any iPod that supports video (using the composite output cable).

The only real question is will the new iPods work with the older AV docks that had an s-video connector? I suspect that they may not but we probably won't know until someone tries it with one of the new iPods (did the s-video work with the 5G iPod?). In any case you could buy the new composite out video cable and use that with the older AV dock.

fpnc
Sep 6, 2007, 07:47 AM
The 5G could use a dock....

Are you saying you think I won't be able to take a video cord with me on my new Ipod Classic, and simply plug it into a TV?

I think you'd have to use the new composite video out cable or the component out cable if you're TV supported the latter form of input (somewhat likely for HDTV, but probably not as convenient as the composite cable).

milo
Sep 6, 2007, 07:48 AM
Unfortunately, I think that is an "epic" mistake. If you read the iPhone specs it still says nothing about video output. Thus, this appears to be an error in the description on the Apple Store (you'd think that someone would actually review the specs before they place such information on the store).

Actually, NONE of the new ipods list video output in their specs, it just seems to be left out of all the specs. Since the touch supports video output and is practically identical to the iPhone, it's likely that with an update it supports video output. And since the update doesn't ship for a few weeks, they can't list future specs now. I don't get the paranoia, you really think apple would list support for this if it didn't work?

JGowan
Sep 6, 2007, 08:11 AM
I know there's a lot of predictions about the fate of the iPod Hi-Fi but it still has a prominent spot on the top of the iTunes/iPod page for selecting what you want...

daysleeper
Sep 6, 2007, 09:09 AM
So long, HiFi. We hardly knew ye.

Seriously, do you guys remember the event where the HiFi was announced? Worst ever. It came alongside the $99 leather ipod cases.

Cryomancer
Sep 6, 2007, 09:56 AM
Actually, NONE of the new ipods list video output in their specs, it just seems to be left out of all the specs. Since the touch supports video output and is practically identical to the iPhone, it's likely that with an update it supports video output. And since the update doesn't ship for a few weeks, they can't list future specs now. I don't get the paranoia, you really think apple would list support for this if it didn't work?

They DO list video output if you click on Complete Specs rather than At A Glance.

In the Connectivity line the iPod nano and up say, "30-pin connector for charging, data transfer, and video out; 3.5-mm jack for audio"

Hodgi
Sep 6, 2007, 10:40 AM
Impossible. LCD panels cannot display interlaced video, no way. Every LCD panel that is fed an interlaced signal has to process the picture to convert it into progressive (called de-interlacing). Interlaced picture only works CRT technology.

Using interlaced graphics would certainly defeat the point that you're trying to make as the interlaced picture would require more processing power than displaying a progressive picture.

Anyway, once on the dock and displaying the picture on the TV, the iPod itself does not display the video anymore. So even though the signal is interlaced to the TV I believe it's not because the iPod/iPhone does not have the power, it's more to do with hardware.

Joshua.


You are right, natively LCD's display only progressive video. However it is possible to feed a LCD an interlaced signal like 480i or 1080i and it will still display. However you are right it has to go through some processing in order to display properly.

But reguardless the iPod touch / iPhone probably displays progressive on its display.

However the output to a tv being interlaced probably is due to a limit in graphic processing power due to the higher resolution.

Typically I believe interlaced video is easier to process at a givin resolution than progressive. Less bandwidth is required for an interlaced signal because it is only drawing half of the lines of resolution at a givin moment. Odd lines then even lines then odd lines and so on.

flopticalcube
Sep 6, 2007, 10:43 AM
Goodbye apple. I actually liked you until this move. Good luck taking over more of the market share when you have proven to be no better than MicroSoft. At least they don't pretend to be something other than what you are.

Bit harsh really, don't you think? Exactly what move are you referring to?

hayesk
Sep 6, 2007, 11:05 AM
I think the iPod Hi-Fi sounded better than the comparable Bose system. I am glad I have this product.

True, but it's not hard to sound better than Bose. Bose is the most overrated company in the audio industry.

flopticalcube
Sep 6, 2007, 11:28 AM
True, but it's not hard to sound better than Bose. Bose is the most overrated company in the audio industry.

QFT. Good marketing department, however.

jdreher
Sep 6, 2007, 12:22 PM
any word on whether everything, including menus and cover art, etc... will be output on video?

Anonymous Freak
Sep 6, 2007, 02:12 PM
No one remembers...

When Jobs was introducing the iPhone he was playing with it and you were able to watch what he was doing on real time on the big screen. Take a look at the keynote again. His iPhone has a wire underneath for video and the resolution was perfect by the way.

That was probably the best feature nobody noticed.
Steve-o has demoed a few products in the past that had video out hacked on with an extra cable that isn't a public cable. He demoed the interface on the iPod Photo that way, when all the Photo was officially capable of outputting were photo slideshows, not the menu structure. Same with the iPhone, he had one that was modded to output a mirror of the main screen. Heck, the original Macintosh intro in 1984 was modded to have video out, a capability the original Macintosh didn't have.

I was counting the days for them to release that function to the public.

Now, I do not know why is so much confusion, every video cable says with what is compatible, take a look at the apple web site.

Then, the ipod Hifi still on apple's site, I just did a Google search and is there, is not discontinued.

Yeah, the info page is there, but if you click "Buy Now", it takes you to a nonexistent Apple Store page. (You don't even have to use Google, you can use the 'Search' field on Apple's home page. (See attachments.))

MacinJosh
Sep 6, 2007, 04:11 PM
You are right, natively LCD's display only progressive video. However it is possible to feed a LCD an interlaced signal like 480i or 1080i and it will still display. However you are right it has to go through some processing in order to display properly.

But reguardless the iPod touch / iPhone probably displays progressive on its display.

However the output to a tv being interlaced probably is due to a limit in graphic processing power due to the higher resolution.

Typically I believe interlaced video is easier to process at a givin resolution than progressive. Less bandwidth is required for an interlaced signal because it is only drawing half of the lines of resolution at a givin moment. Odd lines then even lines then odd lines and so on.

Yeah. The required processing power depends on the manner of de-interlacing. But if the iPhone/iPod touch is incapable of sending a progressive signal even though it displays it progressively as you said, then it doesn't even need to worry about deinterlacing as it's the receiving unit's problem. The TV (or whatever) receiving the interlaced signal does the deinterlacing and not the iPod. So you could be right... could be that it's not powerful enough. I find it hard to believe seeing what the iPhone/iPod touch can do graphically (games, zooms, scrolls etc). I think it's more of a lack of hardware to support it.

Joshua.

corywoolf
Sep 6, 2007, 06:32 PM
I know there's a lot of predictions about the fate of the iPod Hi-Fi but it still has a prominent spot on the top of the iTunes/iPod page for selecting what you want...

It's gone now... going to apple.com/ipodhifi still brings you to the info page though.

JeffDM
Sep 6, 2007, 08:00 PM
Yeah. The required processing power depends on the manner of de-interlacing. But if the iPhone/iPod touch is incapable of sending a progressive signal even though it displays it progressively as you said, then it doesn't even need to worry about deinterlacing as it's the receiving unit's problem. The TV (or whatever) receiving the interlaced signal does the deinterlacing and not the iPod. So you could be right... could be that it's not powerful enough. I find it hard to believe seeing what the iPhone/iPod touch can do graphically (games, zooms, scrolls etc). I think it's more of a lack of hardware to support it.

The iPhone and such doesn't ever need to deinterlace video, the video it gets should already be encoded as progressive scan. Expecting the TV to fix up interlaced video it is generally folly. Some can do a good job, but even in those cases, it's usually best to not get an interlaced signal in the first places.

The only thing I can think of is maybe the video output chip is bigger or something.

JeffDM
Sep 6, 2007, 08:03 PM
I think the iPod Hi-Fi sounded better than the comparable Bose system. I am glad I have this product.

That's not surprising. Bose often tries to do too much with too little of a driver. They aren't horrible, but even considering their size and such, I just don't think they are worth it.

You want support for older OSes? Switch to Microsoft! I am serious MS beats Apple anyway with upgrades.

Except when they had XP as the flagship OS, some of their special services like PlaysForSure wasn't 2000 compatible, despite being mostly the same OS with mostly a few minor tweaks. So to use a PFS device, I would be asked to pay for XP too.

Toe
Sep 7, 2007, 12:02 PM
Now all the "Buy" links are gone from the Hi-Fi pages, BUT...

The Hi-Fi - iPod Integration page (http://www.apple.com/ipodhifi/ipodintegration.html) now has pictures of iPod Classics on it. As in the new model.

So obviously they are updating the Hi-Fi pages. What is the deal? Clearly they don't want to remove the Hi-Fi from their site. Maybe they are about to release a Hi-Fi 2. Or maybe a Beatles Hi-Fi? :D

Anonymous Freak
Sep 8, 2007, 02:25 AM
iPhone has been removed from the compatibility icons for the new iPod Component and Composite video pages. I was hoping that the lack of mentioning iPhone in the progressive vs. interlaced was a mistake, and that the inclusion of its icon on both pages was correct.

But now it's gone.

And on the Universal Dock page, it specifically separates iPod from iPhone when mentioning playing music, and specifically ONLY mentions iPod for playing video. (And the new Universal Dock *DOES* mention compatibility with the "iPod with Video" (meaning the 5G and 5.5G models) as well as "iPod nano 3rd generation (aluminum)", iPod classic, iPod touch, and iPhone, but does *NOT* mention "iPod with color display" (aka iPod photo,) or earlier, nor does it mention the first and second generation iPod nanos. And I'm not even talking about video out, I'm talking purely about raw compatibility.

As for video out path, the "iPod with color display" (aka iPod photo,) and "iPod with video" (aka iPod video 5G and 5.5G) can do video out through the dock connector using the OLD Universal Dock, using the new composite (not component) dock cable, or they could send composite out through the headphone jack; but it appears that all of the just-announced models can ONLY do video out through the new CABLES, not through the old dock, nor through the headphone jack. (But they can do component in addition to composite.)

macidiot
Sep 8, 2007, 04:27 PM
Why doesnt Apple take $200 off the Hi-Fi? Then it should sell better.

It is a great system anyways.

Maybe because it was an overpriced piece of crap that was neither Hi nor Fi.

Overpriced as in injection molded plastic with some electronics and cheap cone speakers.

Basically, just like Bose.

Having said that, I would be ok with buying the Apple Hi-Fi, for about $50.

macidiot
Sep 8, 2007, 04:33 PM
I think the iPod Hi-Fi sounded better than the comparable Bose system. I am glad I have this product.

Well, Bose doesn't make particularly good product...

The Toon Master
Sep 8, 2007, 09:39 PM
Well, i'm halfway convinced to selling my 5G iPod to add to my iPod Touch Funds. All i need is something that will port my iPod Touch to a portable bigger screen like Memorex's iFlip(Not sure if it'll fit)