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macduke
Sep 10, 2007, 07:51 AM
Yesterday, just 74 days after its introduction on June 29, Apple sold the one millionth iPhone. “One million iPhones in 74 days—it took almost two years to achieve this milestone with iPod,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “We can’t wait to get this revolutionary product into the hands of even more customers this holiday season.” [Sep 10, 2007]

- apple.com



Blue Velvet
Sep 10, 2007, 07:56 AM
CUPERTINO, California—September 10, 2007—Apple® today announced it sold its one millionth iPhone™ yesterday, just 74 days after its introduction on June 29. iPhone combines three devices into one—a mobile phone, a widescreen iPod®, and the best mobile Internet device ever—all based on Apple’s revolutionary multi-touch interface and pioneering software that allows users to control iPhone with just a tap, flick or pinch of their fingers.

“One million iPhones in 74 days—it took almost two years to achieve this milestone with iPod,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “We can’t wait to get this revolutionary product into the hands of even more customers this holiday season.”

Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Today, Apple continues to lead the industry in innovation with its award-winning computers, OS X operating system and iLife and professional applications. Apple is also spearheading the digital media revolution with its iPod portable music and video players and iTunes online store, and has entered the mobile phone market this year with its revolutionary iPhone.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/09/10iphone.html

AdeFowler
Sep 10, 2007, 07:57 AM
Great news, although somewhat naively I expected this in the first weekend :o
The 2 years to sell a million iPods stat adds an interesting perspective though.

yoman
Sep 10, 2007, 08:00 AM
So 250,000 in first two days and an additional 750,000 in the next 72?

macduke
Sep 10, 2007, 08:05 AM
Great news, although somewhat naively I expected this in the first weekend :o
The 2 years to sell a million iPods stat adds an interesting perspective though.

hah, you mean that funny named 5gig, $400 behemoth with no touchwheel, only 6 lines of text display, no equalizer and no windows support (which is the majority of the population) surprises you that it took it so long to sell?

i would have thought it would reach this milestone earlier too, especially with all the hype and the established branding. guess that's why they dropped it to $399. wonder how many of those sales were in the last week?

EvanLugh
Sep 10, 2007, 08:07 AM
Bring it to the UK, we'll double it (and the price so it seems..) :rolleyes:

AdeFowler
Sep 10, 2007, 08:10 AM
hah, you mean that funny named 5gig, $400 behemoth with no touchwheel, only 6 lines of text display, no equalizer and no windows support (which is the majority of the population) surprises you that it took it so long to sell?
When you put it like that......... yeah, fair comment ;)

Le Big Mac
Sep 10, 2007, 08:33 AM
guess that's why they dropped it to $399. wonder how many of those sales were in the last week?

Put differently, that decision cost them essentially $100 million. As a shareholder, I'd be upset.

pugnut
Sep 10, 2007, 08:39 AM
With 14 billion in cash and future sales the 100 million is a pimple on their ass. Also factor is the writedown for tax purposes and the fact that it is a store credit and not cash back, more favorable tax and accounting treatment for apple.

Net of net it is good for customers and will propel this even further.


I purchased at 27 and 38 many years ago and have never looked back. Post adjusted splits I am up of 1200% on my original investment.

wordmunger
Sep 10, 2007, 08:40 AM
Put differently, that decision cost them essentially $100 million. As a shareholder, I'd be upset.

I don't think it's that simple. They won some goodwill back from die-hard customers. These are people who are likely to spend a lot of money on Apple products in the future.

ucfgrad93
Sep 10, 2007, 08:42 AM
So 250,000 in first two days and an additional 750,000 in the next 72?

Thats over 10,000 iPhones a day, after the initial weekend. I'd call that pretty impressive.

EvanLugh
Sep 10, 2007, 08:46 AM
*shrug*
http://digg.com/apple/Apple_sells_1_million_iPhones
Someone had to do it :D

Project
Sep 10, 2007, 08:52 AM
Thats over 10,000 iPhones a day, after the initial weekend. I'd call that pretty impressive.

Id say for a phone that expensive, its more than impressive - its unprecedented.

MacRumors
Sep 10, 2007, 08:54 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple announced today (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/09/10iphone.html) that it has sold its one millionth iPhone.

"One million iPhones in 74 days -- it took almost two years to achieve this milestone with iPod," said Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO. "We can't wait to get this revolutionary product into the hands of even more customers this holiday season."

Last week, Apple announced a $200 price cut (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/05/8gb-iphone-price-drop-4gb-iphone-discontinued/) on the 8 GB iPhone and the elimination of the 4 GB model in order to further spur sales heading into the holiday season. Existing customers will be receiving a $100 Apple Store credit (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/06/steve-jobs-open-letter-to-iphone-owners/) if they haven't already been reimbursed. Details will be given this week.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/10/apple-sells-one-millionth-iphone/)

ibwb
Sep 10, 2007, 08:55 AM
Put differently, that decision cost them essentially $100 million. As a shareholder, I'd be upset.

With my credit, I'll be purchasing iWork '08. The CD and box will cost Apple about two dollars. Many others are likely to buy high-margin accessories like the Apple Bluetooth Headset. Your $100 million price tag is absurd.

mpuck972
Sep 10, 2007, 08:56 AM
I don't think it's that simple. They won some goodwill back from die-hard customers. These are people who are likely to spend a lot of money on Apple products in the future.

I will say that without the $100 I would not be contemplating a new iPod, so by doing that they will be getting me to spend some extra money for a classic this week.

psycho bob
Sep 10, 2007, 08:57 AM
lets hope it continues

notjustjay
Sep 10, 2007, 08:58 AM
C'mon, I'd be happy to make that 1,000,001 if he'd just release it in Canada...

Chupa Chupa
Sep 10, 2007, 08:59 AM
But wait all the pundits said the iPhone was flop and that's why Apple had to lower the price...because it wasn't selling! Oops. Guess they was wrrrrrong.

daleanthony
Sep 10, 2007, 09:00 AM
C'mon, I'd be happy to make that 1,000,001 if he'd just release it in Canada...

1,000,002 if it was available in the UK.

decimortis
Sep 10, 2007, 09:02 AM
Can't wait for this baby to hit Canadia!

JesterJJZ
Sep 10, 2007, 09:03 AM
Make one for Verizon and I'm sold.

Sandfleaz
Sep 10, 2007, 09:04 AM
As a stockholder, I'm happy ... that $100 credit will bring a ton of people back to the store. Actual cost of goods on that $100 credit is a drop in the bucket!
Most people will spend more than $100.

fastbite
Sep 10, 2007, 09:04 AM
Well, 74 days sounds pretty good to me. Congratulations!

macduke
Sep 10, 2007, 09:04 AM
APPLE!! listen up. now that you've sold your 1 millionth iphone, why not celebrate with a real software update?? come on! it will be a party.

...or at least fix safari crashes!! idk about you guys but safari has locked up my iphone twice in the past week so i had to reboot it, and crashed countless times, ipod or not. what's the deal lately?

johnmcboston
Sep 10, 2007, 09:09 AM
Make one for Verizon and I'm sold.

got that right...

kirk26
Sep 10, 2007, 09:10 AM
Hopefully, they can now concentrate on updating the iPhone to modern specs.

mainstreetmark
Sep 10, 2007, 09:10 AM
What's this about a iPhone price cut? How come this isn't making news?!

macduke
Sep 10, 2007, 09:12 AM
wow, never been bumped to the first page before. guess it was bound to happen with such a big story.


What's this about a iPhone price cut? How come this isn't making news?!

are you serious?? tell me you're not serious.

there is no possible way you could be serious...

xfusejc
Sep 10, 2007, 09:12 AM
I'm hoping they give a good time extension on the $100 credit. If it holds out until next month, I'll be getting Leopard with that money.

gazelleintense
Sep 10, 2007, 09:12 AM
amazing. more money!

now apple lets work on getting imacs below the $1000 mark. :)

Squonk
Sep 10, 2007, 09:13 AM
It would be cool so see a graph of the sales by week. I still think the sales were slowing which contributed to the price drop. But honestly, I'm sure a price drop was part of the original plan. Maybe they wanted to slow the initial release pace to help iron out the initial bugs?

I'm days away from buying mine...

tschull
Sep 10, 2007, 09:13 AM
Put differently, that decision cost them essentially $100 million. As a shareholder, I'd be upset.

As a shareholder you would stop to consider that they will likely sell far more iPhones and secure more market share with competitive pricing. They are not going to "lose" $100M. I have no idea what Apple's R&D costs were for the iPhone, but at some point it's paid for. Component costs, as has been noted elsewhere, are decreasing due to increased utilization across other product lines. The net cost to manufacture the phone is decreasing. However, this is not so much the point as how much revenue can be can be realized over the product cycle life. The actual profit per unit is not as important.

macduke
Sep 10, 2007, 09:16 AM
amazing. more money!

now apple lets work on getting imacs below the $1000 mark. :)

they almost are for me!!

$1049 with education discount + $100 iphone rebate.

Yateball
Sep 10, 2007, 09:19 AM
C'mon, I'd be happy to make that 1,000,001 if he'd just release it in Canada...

I second that.
I'm going to get an ipod touch anyway, but if by some minor miracle the iphone came to Canada, i'd be all over that.

spazzcat
Sep 10, 2007, 09:22 AM
APPLE!! listen up. now that you've sold your 1 millionth iphone, why not celebrate with a real software update?? come on! it will be a party.

...or at least fix safari crashes!! idk about you guys but safari has locked up my iphone twice in the past week so i had to reboot it, and crashed countless times, ipod or not. what's the deal lately?

I think it is coming by the end of this month...

macduke
Sep 10, 2007, 09:24 AM
I think it is coming by the end of this month...

yeah, i just hope its more then the itunes wifi store.

bravedeer
Sep 10, 2007, 09:28 AM
The worst they could do with this deal is actually around 50 mil. And that's actually wrong because we don't know if the $100 refund is given to those who purchased 4GB iPhones too. And we don't know if apple will mail/email these out or you have to request it; if you have to request it cut the 50 mil in half again.



With my credit, I'll be purchasing iWork '08. The CD and box will cost Apple about two dollars. Many others are likely to buy high-margin accessories like the Apple Bluetooth Headset. Your $100 million price tag is absurd.

gkarris
Sep 10, 2007, 09:30 AM
1,000,002 if it was available in the UK.

1,000,003 if it was available also on T-Mobile here in the USA.

Schtumple
Sep 10, 2007, 09:32 AM
Bring it to the UK, we'll double it (and the price so it seems..) :rolleyes:

So true

£500 iPhone anyone? :rolleyes:

If Apple muck up the pricing for the UK I can't be fussed buying one, I'll be happy with a iPod classic and my O2 Ice...

dicklacara
Sep 10, 2007, 09:35 AM
Put differently, that decision cost them essentially $100 million. As a shareholder, I'd be upset.

Thinking in a slightly longer term, that $100 million investment will turn into $100 million sales of other Apple products at some profit margin-- Apple issued a store credit, not a rebate/refund. And the customer satisfaction and PR value of this is tangible.

Thinking in a yet, longer, term-- through the holidays and next years SMB budget cycle, the price reduction will likely result in (estimated) 3 x sales of the iPhone at the old price (lower prices expand the potential number of customers) and provide Apple additional profit margins because of economy of scale. I suspect that Apple will see a significant ROI on this $100 mil this year!.

As a AAPL share holder, this investment is a "no-brainer"... Name a better investment than AAPL, its products and its customers.

dscottbuch
Sep 10, 2007, 09:38 AM
When you put it like that......... yeah, fair comment ;)

Not really since, at the time, it was the smallest, most capable (including iTunes) device out there. It brought true functionality to the Mac community. Windows was the only thing missing at the time. [Braces for refutation by the feature mongers - no radio - no.... Please note they still don't have it and they are still the monster market leader]

sionharris
Sep 10, 2007, 09:38 AM
So true

£500 iPhone anyone? :rolleyes:

If Apple muck up the pricing for the UK I can't be fussed buying one, I'll be happy with a iPod classic and my O2 Ice...

Looking at how iPods are priced over here, I would guess that the iPhone will be £250-300.

Pound for pound it is much cheaper in America - but only because the dollar is weak. In real terms, they pay roughly the same as us.

thecritix
Sep 10, 2007, 09:42 AM
Looking at how iPods are priced over here, I would guess that the iPhone will be £250-300.

Pound for pound it is much cheaper in America - but only because the dollar is weak. In real terms, they pay roughly the same as us.

whaaa?!

how do you work that out.... $399... is like £200.
the very cheapest it will be over here is £299... probably more...

nick

gnasher729
Sep 10, 2007, 09:44 AM
Put differently, that decision cost them essentially $100 million. As a shareholder, I'd be upset.

Alternatively, Apple could have sold iPhones for $399/$499 from the start. Customers would have $100 in their pocket instead of $100 Apple Store vouchers. I'd guess that 20% of these vouchers will never be used, another 20% will not be used fully, and 30% will drive sales that would otherwise not have happened (like buying an iPod, buying a more expensive Mac than planned). Only the remaining 30% will be a loss for Apple, when people make purchases that they wanted to do anyway.

sionharris
Sep 10, 2007, 09:44 AM
whaaa?!

how do you work that out.... $399... is like £200.
the very cheapest it will be over here is £299... probably more...

nick

If I remember correctly, the $350 iPod is £220 over here. I can't check because I'm at work.

Assuming the above is correct, you do the maths.

(Having said that, I agree that £300 is the more likely price point.)

shadowfax
Sep 10, 2007, 09:49 AM
wonder how many of those sales were in the last week?

I got an iPhone in Oklahoma City last Friday. I asked them how they had been selling (this was an AT&T store--the Apple Store is closed for renovations). The guy gave me an essay--they sold out every day for a week (that was just like 40 phones/day), then it trickled of till they'd sell just 3-4 a day for a long time. He said they had been selling like hot cakes since the price drop, 20/day or more.

I could easily see them having sold 250,000 iPhones since the price drop last week. $600 for a phone is going to grab you some early adopters (huge numbers in the first days), but it really was too expensive to become a hugely popular phone. Selling it at that price initially was I think a wise decision. For one thing, the device is worth it--or nearly so. But it certainly probably got a lot of people drooling who wouldn't pay $600, and might even be reluctant to pay $400, but since there was a price drop, well, that makes it OK to spend $400. A wise move indeed, I would say.

What a great phone. Other than the fact that I will probably have to have mine replaced over the checkered-dots issue, it's by far the neatest gadget I've ever owned. I can't wait for 10 million users so there is a real fire under Apple's butt to make the OS really classy with a huge array of apps and a third-party SDK like they've already reverse engineered.

Project
Sep 10, 2007, 09:54 AM
whaaa?!

how do you work that out.... $399... is like £200.
the very cheapest it will be over here is £299... probably more...

nick

The easiest way to guage the price would be to look at the iPod Touch prices.

In the States, the 16GB iPod Touch is $399, the same price as the iPhone. In the UK, the 16GB iPod Touch is £269.

People who are crying about it potentially costing £500 are very far off the mark.

dr_lha
Sep 10, 2007, 09:55 AM
The worst they could do with this deal is actually around 50 mil. And that's actually wrong because we don't know if the $100 refund is given to those who purchased 4GB iPhones too.
What makes you think its a possibility that 4Gb iPhone purchasers won't get the $100 coupon? Quoth Mr Jobs:
Therefore, we have decided to offer every iPhone customer who purchased an iPhone from either Apple or AT&T, and who is not receiving a rebate or any other consideration, a $100 store credit towards...
Don't see anything in there to suggest that he's only talking about 8Gb iPhone buyers.

happydude
Sep 10, 2007, 10:08 AM
so how long until the 2 millionth?! i'll add to the the pile once my tmobile contract runs up in feb, and by then hopefully with a 16GB . . . perhaps even 3G capability . . . !!

thevofl
Sep 10, 2007, 10:18 AM
Put differently, that decision cost them essentially $100 million. As a shareholder, I'd be upset.

Keep in mind that the Revenue for the iPhone is spread out over 24 months. So the $100 rebate will not affect the numbers in any significant way.

soosy
Sep 10, 2007, 10:20 AM
But are they on track for 10million in 2008 as stated in January? Will sales continue to grow or decline after an initial burst?

The Sept goal was only announced at the July Quarterly meeting so it's not very impressive to me that they hit it since they already had seen a month of sales to base that on. So I don't think it is very good evidence in itself that the price cut wasn't in response to poor sales. *cough* daringfireball *cough*

As others pointed out we know they sold ~250k in the first few days and then 750k over the next 2 months. Extrapolating that 750k out to a year only gets us to 4.5 million phones.

Of course, now there is a price cut and there may be new models to kickstart new sales so we'll have to sit back and see what happens!

I still think it's likely that they planned a more modest price cut initially, but decided they needed to cut it more... in part because of slowing sales.

(Just to clarify, it is impressive that they sold 1 million, it's just not impressive that they hit a milestone they pretty much already knew they were going to hit.)

Laglorden
Sep 10, 2007, 10:25 AM
Id say for a phone that expensive, its more than impressive - its unprecedented.

Maybe... but only because there are no other Phones that expensive...

With 1 billion phones sold and > 36,5% markket share Nokia should sells more than 1 million phones a day I think.

RichP
Sep 10, 2007, 10:29 AM
Sounds impressive to me, considering the price of the phone, newness of the product, and its limited customer base (its not a business smartphone) Would be interesting to compare it to sales of other smartphones (moto q, blackjack, pearl,etc)

mainstreetmark
Sep 10, 2007, 10:30 AM
What makes you think its a possibility that 4Gb iPhone purchasers won't get the $100 coupon? Quoth Mr Jobs:

Don't see anything in there to suggest that he's only talking about 8Gb iPhone buyers.

I agree. I think the 4G iPhones are at the apple store now for $299, so they were similarly discounted, and therefore, will be similarly refunded.

nickane
Sep 10, 2007, 10:32 AM
Looking at how iPods are priced over here, I would guess that the iPhone will be £250-300.

Pound for pound it is much cheaper in America - but only because the dollar is weak. In real terms, they pay roughly the same as us.

BS. The Apple pricing factors in ebay and the fact that anyone can hop across the pond to get an ipod/laptop/screen, but when that choice isn't available/easy (what price difference would it have to be for you to justify getting an unlocked US one off ebay) the mark-up is significantly greater.

$349 for a 160gig isn't far off £229 when u add vat, but $1.99 for a TV show is a lot less than £1.89 purely because itunes knows where u live and won't give you the choice. Same applies to the music store (altho less so):

£0.79/$0.99 > £229/$349 (£0.65/$1)

DesignerOnMac
Sep 10, 2007, 10:39 AM
Maybe... but only because there are no other Phones that expensive...

With 1 billion phones sold and > 36,5% markket share Nokia should sells more than 1 million phones a day I think.
There are many many phones that are as expensive and even more expensive than the iPhone! Nokia, and Sony Ericsson sell phones that are $700.00!

p0intblank
Sep 10, 2007, 10:40 AM
Very nice! :D That's a lot of money!

unity
Sep 10, 2007, 10:45 AM
Maybe... but only because there are no other Phones that expensive...

With 1 billion phones sold and > 36,5% markket share Nokia should sells more than 1 million phones a day I think.

Huh? There are plenty of phones that go for over $600, even after they are subsidized by the carrier. But you rarely see them advertised since they are pricey and cater to the very advanced user who already knows what they are shopping for.

kasei
Sep 10, 2007, 10:45 AM
So when will we see an update to the iPhone? I am dying to buy a 2nd generation phone! The 4G at $299 is so tempting!

dr_lha
Sep 10, 2007, 10:50 AM
So when will we see an update to the iPhone? I am dying to buy a 2nd generation phone! The 4G at $299 is so tempting!
Its not known when a 2G iPhone will be out, but you can guess that we'll get at least 3 months notice of a new iPhone coming out, due to the fact that Apple needs to get FCC approval of any phone it releases, and that approval application is made public so will be all over the rumors sites as soon as Apple make the application.

sminman
Sep 10, 2007, 10:52 AM
Put differently, that decision cost them essentially $100 million. As a shareholder, I'd be upset.

Apple really isn't out a 100 million, more like 20 million cause it didn't cost 600 dollars to make the phone.

milo
Sep 10, 2007, 10:52 AM
Maybe... but only because there are no other Phones that expensive...

With 1 billion phones sold and > 36,5% markket share Nokia should sells more than 1 million phones a day I think.

Maybe not right now, but there have been others similarly priced on release, like the RAZR at $499.

And has ANY phone at any price sold this many this fast? I doubt it. IF nokia is selling that many, that would be all their models combined, wouldn't it? Have they ever had a new model that hit a million this fast? It's laughable that people are describing this as "taking this long" when this is probably the fastest selling phone of all time. And now that prices are lower, it will sell even faster. 10 million by the end of next year will be a piece of cake, they'll probably hit that months early.

drater
Sep 10, 2007, 11:02 AM
Yah Steve! You win: $200 cash from early adopters! :D

...that's right, I went there.

Maybe not right now, but there have been others similarly priced on release, like the RAZR at $499.

And has ANY phone at any price sold this many this fast? I doubt it. IF nokia is selling that many, that would be all their models combined, wouldn't it? Have they ever had a new model that hit a million this fast? It's laughable that people are describing this as "taking this long" when this is probably the fastest selling phone of all time. And now that prices are lower, it will sell even faster. 10 million by the end of next year will be a piece of cake, they'll probably hit that months early.

exactly, I wonder how Nokia's first phone sold?

Lepton
Sep 10, 2007, 11:13 AM
The prices had to drop partly because of the new iPod line, partly because the first-day rush is over, and partly because new models of phone will arrive soon.

I expect a new iPhone with 16GB and 3G for $500 in Dec or more likely Jan, in the US. Outside of the US I expect this phone in Nov or Dec, for a bit higher price.

CalBoy
Sep 10, 2007, 11:14 AM
The prices had to drop partly because of the new iPod line, partly because the first-day rush is over, and partly because new models of phone will arrive soon.

I expect a new iPhone with 16GB and 3G for $500 in Dec or more likely Jan, in the US. Outside of the US I expect this phone in Nov or Dec, for a bit higher price.

Do you think Apple would rebound on the price? Wouldn't that upset a lot of people and create negative backlash?

skunk
Sep 10, 2007, 11:15 AM
Apple really isn't out a 100 million, more like 20 million cause it didn't cost 600 dollars to make the phone.More like 10 million, as about half comes back as profit in the stores.

Project
Sep 10, 2007, 11:18 AM
Maybe... but only because there are no other Phones that expensive...

With 1 billion phones sold and > 36,5% markket share Nokia should sells more than 1 million phones a day I think.

There are dozens of phones as expensive as the iPhone. Mostly Windows Mobile phones.

freediverdude
Sep 10, 2007, 11:26 AM
Considering, at say, an average price of $500 per phone, that in 74 days Apple just raked in $500 million in revenue, some $100 million perceived "loss", if you believe that's the real number, spread out over 24 months, is just a teeny tiny drop in the bucket.

Consultant
Sep 10, 2007, 11:27 AM
Sounds impressive to me, considering the price of the phone, newness of the product, and its limited customer base (its not a business smartphone) Would be interesting to compare it to sales of other smartphones (moto q, blackjack, pearl,etc)

Actually, just because it isn't advertised to work with Windoze does not mean the iPhone it's not a phone for business.

First of all, iPhone CAN work with windoze exchange by enabling a simple option on exchange.

In addition, there are many people using the iPhone for business. Real estate agents are connected to their company's database. Doctors are using it to view medical imagery, data. Etc.

Also, the ease of use of iPhone for browsing essential company backend database via Safari is just beyond comparison with the mobi browsers.

Data
Sep 10, 2007, 11:28 AM
If they bring the iphone to the rest of the world withing 6 months that should be possible, if it only goes to france ,uk and germany, it would not be i think.

syriana
Sep 10, 2007, 11:29 AM
But are they on track for 10million in 2008 as stated in January? Will sales continue to grow or decline after an initial burst?

The Sept goal was only announced at the July Quarterly meeting so it's not very impressive to me that they hit it since they already had seen a month of sales to base that on. So I don't think it is very good evidence in itself that the price cut wasn't in response to poor sales. *cough* daringfireball *cough*

As others pointed out we know they sold ~250k in the first few days and then 750k over the next 2 months. Extrapolating that 750k out to a year only gets us to 4.5 million phones.

Of course, now there is a price cut and there may be new models to kickstart new sales so we'll have to sit back and see what happens!

I still think it's likely that they planned a more modest price cut initially, but decided they needed to cut it more... in part because of slowing sales.

(Just to clarify, it is impressive that they sold 1 million, it's just not impressive that they hit a milestone they pretty much already knew they were going to hit.)
too bad there isn't a world outside US, it would help :apple:achieve their sale goal.. :rolleyes:

ruutiveijari
Sep 10, 2007, 11:34 AM
And has ANY phone at any price sold this many this fast?.
Well Razr had bad couple of months at the beginning (because of the price) but then sky rocketted and sold 50 million in first two years (on sale middle 2004, 50 million in July 2006). That's a bit over 2 million per month.

Ibjr
Sep 10, 2007, 11:34 AM
Put differently, that decision cost them essentially $100 million. As a shareholder, I'd be upset.

Excuse me? $100 million in credits to the Apple Store. This brings AT&T costumers into the Apple Store. My guess is in 6 months you'll see it many of those who used the $100 credits were not existing costumers and a large portion of the credit won't be claimed.

Those who do buy stuff will buy high margin products so Apple will lose little.

If this works it'll be a steal. Costumer acquisition cost for premium electronics is usually far higher.

dernhelm
Sep 10, 2007, 11:38 AM
hah, you mean that funny named 5gig, $400 behemoth with no touchwheel, only 6 lines of text display, no equalizer and no windows support (which is the majority of the population) surprises you that it took it so long to sell?

i would have thought it would reach this milestone earlier too, especially with all the hype and the established branding. guess that's why they dropped it to $399. wonder how many of those sales were in the last week?

5 gigs was a lot of storage at the time. But $400 was A LOT of money to pay, and the fact that there was no Windows support, meant that no matter what it was going to take a while to get to 1M. And even though the device is nothing like it is today it was still the best thing going.

In point of fact, 2 years was not a long time to go from zero to 1M. Especially with almost zero hype outside the Mac community, and a lot of raised eyebrows inside the Mac community. The fact that they were able to get it rolling and hit 1M in the first 2 years was really pretty astounding.

CalBoy
Sep 10, 2007, 11:40 AM
Well Razr had bad couple of months at the beginning (because of the price) but then sky rocketted and sold 50 million in first two years (on sale middle 2004, 50 million in July 2006). That's a bit over 2 million per month.

I think by that point, the RAZR was being heavily discounted (down to $150 or something in that neighborhood no?). In addition, the RAZR didn't require a data plan. The iPhone has to convince you that it's good enough to warrant a data plan and its price tag. In the face of that, I'd say it's doing pretty well.

milo
Sep 10, 2007, 12:03 PM
Well Razr had bad couple of months at the beginning (because of the price) but then sky rocketted and sold 50 million in first two years (on sale middle 2004, 50 million in July 2006). That's a bit over 2 million per month.

Did it sell the first million this fast? Based on what you just said, I doubt it.

Items like this don't sell the same amount every month, they go up if they are successful. Just look at the ipod, and well, the Razr. Prices go down, capacities and features go up, in this case new markets will be coming online.

I don't know if they'll hit 50 million in two years, but 10 million by the end of 2008 seems easy, I wouldn't even be surprised if they can pull it off by mid 2008.

gugy
Sep 10, 2007, 12:04 PM
I want a 3G iPhone with 16gig storage. I hope it comes very soon, no later than MWSF.

overcast
Sep 10, 2007, 12:06 PM
I want a 3G iPhone with 16gig storage. I hope it comes very soon, no later than MWSF.

Don't hold your breath.

gugy
Sep 10, 2007, 12:09 PM
why not?

16 gig flash is here on the iPod Touch and in Europe the iPhone will be for sure 3G, so I don't think is too much to ask.

BKKbill
Sep 10, 2007, 12:10 PM
Excuse me? $100 million in credits to the Apple Store. This brings AT&T costumers into the Apple Store. My guess is in 6 months you'll see it many of those who used the $100 credits were not existing costumers and a large portion of the credit won't be claimed.

Those who do buy stuff will buy high margin products so Apple will lose little.

If this works it'll be a steal. Costumer acquisition cost for premium electronics is usually far higher.

I think your right on the assumption Apple will lose very little and who said the customer is going to just spend the credit it just might be a down payment for an iMac or Mac book. So give $100 and make much more. Apple has a market Cap of 117.43 Billion this is chump change.

ChrisA
Sep 10, 2007, 12:13 PM
So 250,000 in first two days and an additional 750,000 in the next 72?

I think this is why Apple lowered the price. They sold a lot the first week, fewer the next week and so on. the trend was moving the wrong way. No one lowers a price on a product that is selling faster than they can be made. You lower it due to slowing sales.

irun5k
Sep 10, 2007, 12:14 PM
Hopefully, they can now concentrate on updating the iPhone to modern specs.

What, so then you'll buy one to go along with the 400 MHZ iMac that you're bragging about in your sig? You're right, it would be an insult to plug an iPhone into your mac. But not because of the iPhone.

:D okay, okay, just kidding already! I had to make the joke. But really, you had to be the one joking.... "modern specs?" Where do you do your phone shopping? Japan?

JGowan
Sep 10, 2007, 12:19 PM
Congrats, Apple! Huge number and very quick, too!

I bought my first iPod 24 hours after they began going on sale back on November 12, 2001. I wonder what "number" I was? Certainly one of the first thousand or so, maybe even lower.

shawnce
Sep 10, 2007, 12:26 PM
You lower it due to slowing sales. ...or to accelerate sales. The holiday quarter coming up is the one nail even if they don't get the margins they want. This will give the iPhone a strong start into the next year by getting more out in the environment (more in the environment equals more mind share, friend to friend marketing).

You assume (ignoring the initial spike) that sales have been trailing off but you have no data to support that assumption. If it followed the iPod trends at all then sales having been growing over time (so has production capacity) as more word of mouth and positive press have come around (iPhone is getting good reviews and has very high satisfaction ratings). The iPhone is tracking ahead Apple's public statements so that is another good sign (granted Apple is good at over delivering... likely because they under promise).

milo
Sep 10, 2007, 12:36 PM
I think this is why Apple lowered the price. They sold a lot the first week, fewer the next week and so on. the trend was moving the wrong way.

Is there any evidence for that?

We all know that they sold a bunch the first few days of release. That's just pent up demand. Is there any reason to believe that sales in week 3 were lower than in week 2?


No one lowers a price on a product that is selling faster than they can be made. You lower it due to slowing sales.

What about ipods? Sales have been going up constantly in the years since they have been released at the same time prices have gone down. Don't forget that new products have supply constraints. "Selling faster than they can be made" doesn't just take into account sales, it also means that prices can drop as manufacturing ramps up (and those costs drop, although it's probably too early for that).

DMann
Sep 10, 2007, 12:38 PM
Put differently, that decision cost them essentially $100 million. As a shareholder, I'd be upset.

Considering that the $100 is in the form of Apple credit, the profit made on resale of Apple products reduces the hit significantly.

plumbingandtech
Sep 10, 2007, 12:43 PM
Considering that the $100 is in the form of Apple credit, the profit made on resale of Apple products reduces the hit significantly.

To say nothing of the large percentage of people that will not even take advantage of this "rebate" like so many other rebates.

chicagostars
Sep 10, 2007, 12:46 PM
As a stockholder, I'm happy ... that $100 credit will bring a ton of people back to the store. Actual cost of goods on that $100 credit is a drop in the bucket!
Most people will spend more than $100.

Well put. And for any doubters, it is well understood among retailers that store credits, gift cards, etc. generally result in purchases above the credit amount. While it doesn't "close" what many are calling a $100 million gap, the $100 credit does go a long way to closing it though a variety of methods.

iomar
Sep 10, 2007, 01:16 PM
hah, you mean that funny named 5gig, $400 behemoth with no touchwheel, only 6 lines of text display, no equalizer and no windows support (which is the majority of the population) surprises you that it took it so long to sell?

i would have thought it would reach this milestone earlier too, especially with all the hype and the established branding. guess that's why they dropped it to $399. wonder how many of those sales were in the last week?

Well, you are right about that, but right now we are also stuck only with the AT&T Service.

cameronjpu
Sep 10, 2007, 01:20 PM
Its not known when a 2G iPhone will be out, but you can guess that we'll get at least 3 months notice of a new iPhone coming out, due to the fact that Apple needs to get FCC approval of any phone it releases, and that approval application is made public so will be all over the rumors sites as soon as Apple make the application.

As I remember it, last time Apple requested that it not be made public in the interests of trade secrecy. So you may not know in advance.

ts1973
Sep 10, 2007, 01:24 PM
Apple cut the price to drive the sales. They want to meet te bold statement of 10 mil phones in '08.

So just a thought : maybe they cut the price because the phone will be late in Europe. I have to seen hard evidence still for a 2007 launch in any European country. And after Germany, UK and France, when will the others follow ? Probably too late to sell 10 mil units in 2008 ;)

AHDuke99
Sep 10, 2007, 01:24 PM
Well, you are right about that, but right now we are also stuck only with the AT&T Service.

what do we do about the service? Verizon refused apple and tmobile is too small. Should apple have chosen sprint? They gave a good data network, but customer service is awful and i hear their voice is spotty. I am tired of seei g complaints. Only choice apple had was them, unless they made both cdma and gsm and just sold it unlocked. Even then verizon wouldve refused to allow it intheir network without their ckunky gui.

cameronjpu
Sep 10, 2007, 01:25 PM
Apple really isn't out a 100 million, more like 20 million cause it didn't cost 600 dollars to make the phone.

Lol... so if you work a long night (5 hours) and get paid double time, $60 per hour instead of your normal $30, and you donate your paycheck at the end of the night ($300) - did you just give away $150 or $300?

JGowan
Sep 10, 2007, 01:27 PM
I think this is why Apple lowered the price. They sold a lot the first week, fewer the next week and so on. the trend was moving the wrong way.You source link, please, to back up this information.

No one lowers a price on a product that is selling faster than they can be made. You lower it due to slowing sales.What about the iPod Mini? While, no, Apple didn't lower the price on the best-selling iPod at the time, they stopped making it. No one else would do that. Any other company would've milked the Mini for as long as they could. Apple doesn't do the usual.

I think your expectations are way too high for any company actually by expecting them to "sell faster than they can be made". You might point to PS3, XBOX360 or Wii, but if there are any shortages there, I belive it was due to intentionally creating a demand for them by only producing a small amount. Video game players tend to get worked up any way. You tell them there's only a small amount, you're due to sell every one that you make, but then you're limiting your sales too.

But many companies choose to lower their prices when they've reached a certain place in the market so they can broaden their lead and base even faster. If you've been catching some of the tech buzz lately, you would've read that the iPhone outsold all other smartphones in July Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSL0432369320070904). The iPhone is very popular, but could it sell even faster? Yes. By lowering the price by $200. Steve Jobs made the decision to lower to make the product even more affordable so that Apple could sell even more of them this Holiday Shopping Season. Why don't people just take him at his word? Some people hate those who are doing well. On the street, they're called "Player Haters".

Did Apple lower the price of the $399 iPod by 33% after their first 72 days back in 2002? By your proposed pricing theory, Apple would've done just that. No, they stood by their price as if to say, "This price is justified and if you want it, you need to be prepared to pay for it". I'm sure sales tapered off shortly after Christmas. But Apple stood by its price of $399. The iPhone is now a reality because people began to slowly but surely see the value in the iPod. With each milestone reached, Apple continued to make the iPod more affordable while creating more value into each generation of iPod that it shipped.

Why not buy now? You might wonder "if the iPhone is 'so great', why isn't Apple selling more?" Fair enough question... Just as the people most excited about the iPod (and willing to spend the "high" price to get it) came and bought in the first week of sales, those most interested in the iPhone did the same. And then sales tapered off. That is to be expected. Why? (A) Interest is not as high to immediately buy; (B) More consideration to be given due to high cost; (C) Wait to see public reaction; (D) Wait to save $499-599 to purchase; (E) In the middle of another phone contract and doesn't want to pay early termination fee.

There's very few people who are knowledgeable about the iPhone that wouldn't want one if they were given one. As I mentioned in paragraph immediately above, there are a number of reasons why people haven't bought, some of which are out of Apple's control. At this point, Apple is doing two things to make the next wave of buyers take their credit card out of their wallets. They added value to the iPhone by new features (including the soon-to-be available Wi-Fi ITunes Music Store) and lowering the price by $200. The next wave hits this Christmas.

AHDuke99
Sep 10, 2007, 01:29 PM
and tge euro phone isnt going to be 3g from what ive read. That tmobile ad in germany is an apparent fake. Idoubt apple roles out a 3g there before the us gets one. And i bet euro users for the most part care just as much about 3g as americans. There is a small minority and thats it.

hayesk
Sep 10, 2007, 01:34 PM
I will say that without the $100 I would not be contemplating a new iPod, so by doing that they will be getting me to spend some extra money for a classic this week.

That reminds me of the restaurant trick. When one customer in a group is not satisfied, the waitor will offer that person free dessert as compensation (or a free meal next time). They know if the one person gets free dessert, all of the other diners will buy dessert, or the person will bring other people back for their "free" meal.

Gilfanon
Sep 10, 2007, 01:37 PM
For the record, from Nokia's Q1 results announcement:

Nokia shipped close to eight million Nokia Nseries and more than one million Nokia Eseries devices during the first quarter 2007.

The N series consists of 8 models, the E series of 7 models. Those 2 series are probably the closest matches to the iPhone I'd guess (forming the high-spec, high-cost end of Nokia's range). That's 9 million units shipped over 3 months for 15 models. That's also models shipped- not sure how that corresponds to actual direct sales to customers vs models sitting in stock at resellers. And it's also global units (of which the US is approximately 5% of Nokia's global sales), vs. purely US sales for the iPhone. Obviously there's an argument for relative product maturity and the buzz that's driven up iPhone sales, but all told those comparative figures look pretty good to me.

Plus, given the fashion-conscious nature of the phone market in the UK, I expect the iPhone's share of the high-end mobile market to go pretty stratospheric over here- I'd say the future looks pretty good for the iPhone.

jhsfosho
Sep 10, 2007, 01:43 PM
1,000,000 in 72 days? I'm impressed. That also means that theres about 1,000,000 people enjoying their iPhones more than my (nonexistant) iphone.

Congrats on the sales, Apple!

chr1s60
Sep 10, 2007, 01:47 PM
I knew Apple would sell more than a million by the end of the quarter. I would also guess that with the new price cut, Apple should sell a little over 2 million by the end of the year. This price cut has convinced a lot of people that were borderline to go out and buy an iPhone. I personally know two people that had been thinking about buying an iPhone that immediately bought them after the cut was announced. I am sure there are a lot of others like this that will boost Apple's sales.

sinisterdesign
Sep 10, 2007, 01:59 PM
I think this is why Apple lowered the price. They sold a lot the first week, fewer the next week and so on. the trend was moving the wrong way. No one lowers a price on a product that is selling faster than they can be made. You lower it due to slowing sales.

slowed from what, 6 months of pent up hype & lust? of course it slowed down from the first week, were you expecting people lined up around the block still?

lowering the price was a forgone conclusion, it's a tech gadget, that's what happens. albeit, it's a larger cut & it came about a month sooner than i was expecting, but i don't think it was a defensive move as much as an offensive one. drop it well before the holiday season hits & now it's on more people's wishlist.

i was at an Apple store friday night 30min before it closed & there were throngs of people there. i even talked one guy into buying an iphone (where's my cut, apple?).

Detlev_73
Sep 10, 2007, 02:10 PM
Make one for Verizon and I'm sold.

I dropped Verizon like a hot potato, as soon as I bought my iPhone. Verizon had their chance to accept the iPhone, but they spit in Apple's face. I was a Verizon customer and when I heard this, I went through the roof for their lack of vision. :mad: It's sucks to be a Verizon customer now. I gladly paid the $175 to break my contract. Long live the iPhone!!! :apple:

s10
Sep 10, 2007, 03:15 PM
I dropped Verizon like a hot potato, as soon as I bought my iPhone. Verizon had their chance to accept the iPhone, but they spit in Apple's face. I was a Verizon customer and when I heard this, I went through the roof for their lack of vision. :mad: It's sucks to be a Verizon customer now. I gladly paid the $175 to break my contract. Long live the iPhone!!! :apple:

Same for me!

happydude
Sep 10, 2007, 03:15 PM
did you write in to verison to tell them why they lost a customer?

JGowan
Sep 10, 2007, 03:39 PM
Put differently, that decision cost them essentially $100 million. As a shareholder, I'd be upset.Loved your "ESSENTIALLY" word there. You think it lets you say "$100 million" but also lets you off the hook if you're wrong. And you are.

Final tally will not be anywhere near $100M.
It's not a $100 bill that early adopters get back (but you know this because you said "essentially". It's a $100 credit. Anyone wishing to take advantage of this has to buy something at a brick & mortar store or online at apple.com. Not everyone will take advantage of the credit. Some won't know. Some won't care. Some will miss the deadline that will be in place (probably Dec 31, 2007). Some will have good intentions and forget. And Apple has probably alienated some and perhaps have lost their business for good.

Profit Margins of other Goods/Services
Whatever is bought isn't sold at the cost to make it so, while the $100 is being used to purchase something, it's going to partially pay for it too. Depending what is bought, maybe almost a wash really.

Credit used to buy big ticket/big profit margin itemsPerhaps the $100 is used toward another phone or iPod or computer. Money will be made on this sale regardless of the $100 credit.

Goodwill restored/Good press earned/Free publicity
No telling how much more "$399 iPhone" was told to the masses FOR FREE by giving the credit. This news reached mega-millions and the words "Apple dropped the iPhone $200/Apple gave a $100 credit" were on countless lips. Most iPhone users happy. Apple did what most companies wouldn't and garnered more goodwill and admiration and again, the FREE advertisement of the new price was the topic of millions of conversations, probably along with "Cool new lineup of iPods" and "The iPhone and iPod Touch will now do Wi-Fi iTunes downloads".

Apple MADE money, Jack.

Deanster
Sep 10, 2007, 03:40 PM
That's a million phones in 74 days. At $600! With EDGE instead of 3G. In the US only. On a single (not well-loved) carrier. With a mandatory data plan. With zero rebates, discounts, coupons, discounted calling plans, etc. With only one high-end model.

And an untested, kinda buggy product that lacks all kinds of common capabilities like Exchange support, proper VPN support, and 3rd party software. And ringtones, for gods sakes!

So, if Apple can outsell both Palm and Blackberry's worldwide, all carriers, all models, heavily subsidized/discounted numbers with all those limitations, what will the future look like?

When iPhone has several models at more-reasonable price points. With 3G. Worldwide. Multiple carriers. And Rev. 2+ software....

The future's so bright, Steve Jobs gotta wear shades...

TurboSC
Sep 10, 2007, 03:53 PM
I'm happy for you Apple, now where's my damn $100 gift card...

<3 Apple has come a long way... Kinda sucks that it's more mainstream now, and all the computer tards think they're cool because they have an iPhone, but don't even know what an operating system is. Oh wells, posers will always be posers :)

twoodcc
Sep 10, 2007, 04:02 PM
lets hope it continues

exactly :)

this is great news....but they gotta keep selling them

akac
Sep 10, 2007, 04:24 PM
Maybe... but only because there are no other Phones that expensive...

With 1 billion phones sold and > 36,5% markket share Nokia should sells more than 1 million phones a day I think.

Almost every Windows Mobile touch screen phone is that expensive, if not more. Cingular 8525 == $600 today.

henjin
Sep 10, 2007, 04:34 PM
Great news, although somewhat naively I expected this in the first weekend :o
The 2 years to sell a million iPods stat adds an interesting perspective though.

Well I thought due to the glut of iPhones in NYC that Apple would be lucky to reach 750k but that just goes to show how looks can be deceiving.

One thing though apart from the 1 week boost in sales from the price cut; I wonder what will happen when savvy customers, if they exist, will hold off for the imminent release of a 3G iphone with 16gb?

Anyway I was wrong, big deal but it's nice to be wrong :)

MacinDoc
Sep 10, 2007, 04:38 PM
Wasn't Apple's goal to sell 10 million iPhones in 1 year? If so, it will fall far short at the current rate of sales (about 10000/day after the initial weekend). Obviously, Apple had to lower the price to try to reduce the huge shortfall. Even at WWDC, Jobs sounded like he didn't know how much Apple should charge for the iPhone, and he clearly guessed wrong. So, the initial high price was not an attempt to gouge early adopters, but instead reflected a very poor assessment of the market.

matznentosh
Sep 10, 2007, 04:40 PM
Its not known when a 2G iPhone will be out, but you can guess that we'll get at least 3 months notice of a new iPhone coming out, due to the fact that Apple needs to get FCC approval of any phone it releases, and that approval application is made public so will be all over the rumors sites as soon as Apple make the application.

I think that will be the case if/when Apple switches to 3G, it will have to get FCC approval which will be published months before the phone appears (won't that kill current sales).

But if it is some other type of improvement, to the computer portion of the iPhone (increased memory, video ichat etc.) I don't think FCC needs to give approval for that. Does it?

Apple cut the price to drive the sales. They want to meet te bold statement of 10 mil phones in '08.

So just a thought : maybe they cut the price because the phone will be late in Europe. I have to seen hard evidence still for a 2007 launch in any European country. And after Germany, UK and France, when will the others follow ? Probably too late to sell 10 mil units in 2008 ;)

No, I think the current price drop means the European iPhone will be EDGE, 16 Gig and 8 Gig, revealed later this month, followed immediately by the same phones in US. That's my prediction. Am I the first with this idea? How much you want to bet this is what happens.

JGowan
Sep 10, 2007, 05:10 PM
Make one for Verizon and I'm sold.Oh, they will --- IN FIVVVVVVEEEEEEE LLLOOOOOOOONNNNGGG YEARS! :D

I'll say this, by that time, it will be ONE KICK-ARSE PHONE!

japasneezemonk
Sep 10, 2007, 05:14 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU like Mac OS X; en) AppleWebKit/420+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 Mobile/1C28 Safari/419.3)

I just want my $100, I need to save some money on taxes when I buy my new MBP.

dlastmango
Sep 10, 2007, 05:28 PM
Wasn't Apple's goal to sell 10 million iPhones in 1 year? If so, it will fall far short at the current rate of sales (about 10000/day after the initial weekend). Obviously, Apple had to lower the price to try to reduce the huge shortfall. Even at WWDC, Jobs sounded like he didn't know how much Apple should charge for the iPhone, and he clearly guessed wrong. So, the initial high price was not an attempt to gouge early adopters, but instead reflected a very poor assessment of the market.

I think you got it right with that last line... they clearly had a large profit margin on the iphone at the $599 price. Jobs thought he would get a higher turnout for the iphone than it did.

Bosunsfate
Sep 10, 2007, 05:33 PM
So 250,000 in first two days and an additional 750,000 in the next 72?

Put differently, that decision cost them essentially $100 million. As a shareholder, I'd be upset.

Your math isn't quite right. You are saying $100 store credit for 1,000,000 purchases. That doesn't add up to $100 million.

First, many people will never use their credits.

Second, and very likely, people will actually spend more money in the store. Which means more business.

Now, I don't claim to know what Wall Street will value that rebate. Right now the stock is really too volatile to tell.

gusapple
Sep 10, 2007, 05:57 PM
1,000,000 in 72 days? I'm impressed. That also means that theres about 1,000,000 people enjoying their iPhones more than my (nonexistant) iphone.

Congrats on the sales, Apple!

I just think that the number is smaller than they say. I got an iPhone for a few weeks and then I retuned it. That is why I think it is not that much. But good job Apple!

megfilmworks
Sep 10, 2007, 07:19 PM
Put differently, that decision cost them essentially $100 million. As a shareholder, I'd be upset. Not if they sell more units as a result of the price drop. And don't forget the monthly income from ATT. As a shareholder I am very happy at the price drop. Much better in the long run for the bottom line. There are many more variables than simply multiplying the difference.

aristobrat
Sep 10, 2007, 07:22 PM
Wasn't Apple's goal to sell 10 million iPhones in 1 year?
FWIW, it's 10 million phones by the end of 2008, which is slightly under a year-and-a-half.

CalBoy
Sep 10, 2007, 08:36 PM
FWIW, it's 10 million phones by the end of 2008, which is slightly under a year-and-a-half.

Assuming that Apple is able to hit about 2.5 million by the end of this year, and another 3.5-4 million units next year (based on average daily sales being about 10,000), I don't think the iPhone is going to hit the mark. Then again, this is based on current sales rates. I'm sure by the time it's updated, and perhaps another small price drop ($50 off or so by next June?) daily sales might go as high as 20,000. If this happens, then the target will be met. I hope it does happen, because I'm banking on the price falling further (more competition from other companies, etc). If not, I guess I'll have to make the leap eventually and buy one with what little money I don't have:p

aristobrat
Sep 10, 2007, 08:38 PM
Are you factoring in international sales?

CalBoy
Sep 10, 2007, 08:44 PM
Are you factoring in international sales?

No, and the only reason is because that market has not been pinned down yet. Once we know just which markets are going to have it, and by when, a prediction with the international markets will be more viable. I know I heard something about the UK, but I don't know if it's slated for this November or not. If so, I'd add an additional 200,000 to my estimate for this year. Each market is different, so it would be hard to gauge where the iPhone would do really well, and where it would be a mediocre seller.

Glenny2lappies
Sep 10, 2007, 08:47 PM
and tge euro phone isnt going to be 3g from what ive read. That tmobile ad in germany is an apparent fake. Idoubt apple roles out a 3g there before the us gets one. And i bet euro users for the most part care just as much about 3g as americans. There is a small minority and thats it.

No. 3G is more important here - the Telcos make it that way as they paid so damn much for the licences. That plus the first company with 3G phone (called '3') cocked up the marketing, aiming at children to download videos rather than businesses who'll use the data (and have the money). Now 3G phones are far more common and the bandwidth is available quite cheaply.

For me, I really would like to see a 3G iPhone as the data will be so much better. Even if it's downloading the 'toons from iToons store (not that I've ever downloaded even one tune thus far...).

Is Steve making a rod for his own back by signing up the desperate Telcos rather than the capable ones? For example, will AT&T be able to use a 3G iPhone if/when it's released?

Wouldn't it be great if the iPhone's price was doubled but it was sold unlocked. I'd be more than happy to pay the premium and then select the Telco of my choice and not be tied in. Even pay-as-you-go would then be possible.

I'd lay bets on the fact that there's a huge number of people in the 'States who would love an iPhone but won't buy one purely because of AT&T. It'll definitely be like that in the UK for O2.

shyataroo
Sep 10, 2007, 09:03 PM
As a shareholder you would stop to consider that they will likely sell far more iPhones and secure more market share with competitive pricing. They are not going to "lose" $100M. I have no idea what Apple's R&D costs were for the iPhone, but at some point it's paid for. Component costs, as has been noted elsewhere, are decreasing due to increased utilization across other product lines. The net cost to manufacture the phone is decreasing. However, this is not so much the point as how much revenue can be can be realized over the product cycle life. The actual profit per unit is not as important.

acutally apple is "only" losing at most 50 million (remember it is STORE credit, meaning that they can only spend the money at apple...and the profit margin is 50% (give or take) that is assuming of course that they spend EXACTLY $100 at an apple store (which more often then not they will spend more, alot more) so they only lose the manufacturing cost of said items (or the wholesale price)

CalBoy
Sep 10, 2007, 09:06 PM
acutally apple is "only" losing at most 50 million (remember it is STORE credit, meaning that they can only spend the money at apple...and the profit margin is 50% (give or take) that is assuming of course that they spend EXACTLY $100 at an apple store (which more often then not they will spend more, alot more) so they only lose the manufacturing cost of said items (or the wholesale price)

The number is lower still because not all 1 million iPhone buyers will remember to use their credit.

7on
Sep 10, 2007, 09:09 PM
No. 3G is more important here - the Telcos make it that way as they paid so damn much for the licences. That plus the first company with 3G phone (called '3') cocked up the marketing, aiming at children to download videos rather than businesses who'll use the data (and have the money). Now 3G phones are far more common and the bandwidth is available quite cheaply.

For me, I really would like to see a 3G iPhone as the data will be so much better. Even if it's downloading the 'toons from iToons store (not that I've ever downloaded even one tune thus far...).

Is Steve making a rod for his own back by signing up the desperate Telcos rather than the capable ones? For example, will AT&T be able to use a 3G iPhone if/when it's released?

Wouldn't it be great if the iPhone's price was doubled but it was sold unlocked. I'd be more than happy to pay the premium and then select the Telco of my choice and not be tied in. Even pay-as-you-go would then be possible.

I'd lay bets on the fact that there's a huge number of people in the 'States who would love an iPhone but won't buy one purely because of AT&T. It'll definitely be like that in the UK for O2.

I wish it would be sold unlocked in Europe. Isn't unlocked the norm over there? (minus the UK) US is AT&T, UK O2, and Canada Rogers - but for Europe just release an unlocked phone. I doubt their deals specify outside their country. That way Apple can sell to anyone because you can just import a Europe phone and use with T-mobile USA :-D That way Apple gets more sells, makes more money, w/o violating any 5 year contracts. And manages to piss off iPhoneSIMfree

aristobrat
Sep 10, 2007, 09:11 PM
No, and the only reason is because that market has not been pinned down yet.
I can see where knowing the specific markets would make it easier to guess exactly how the 10 million iPhones sales will geographically break down, but "in general", I don't think Apple's going to have too many problems hitting 10 million iPhone sales (worldwide) by the end of 2008, unless it totally tanks in Europe.

Like you said, 2.5M in the US this year, maybe 4M more in the US over 2008 .. that's 6.5M total, just in the US. Apple would only have to sell 3.5M in Europe over 2007/2008 to hit 10 million sold, right?

CalBoy
Sep 10, 2007, 09:22 PM
Like you said, 2.5M in the US this year, maybe 4M more in the US over 2008 .. that's 6.5M total, just in the US. Apple would only have to sell 3.5M in Europe over 2007/2008 to hit 10 million sold, right?

Yes, and that's where it gets scary. Assuming the UK sales numbers correspond to US sales figures (they stay proportional to the population), we can only expect about 700,000 units from that market in 2008.

Now, even if other markets opened up, their sales figures would be downwardly depressed depending on when the iPhone is released there. For example, if the iPhone comes to Canada next February, we could expect about 400,000 units. However, if it's delayed, and doesn't debut until about May/June, sales might only go as high as 200,000. The two markets with the most potential are Japan and Germany. Their larger populations and relatively stronger consumer purchasing power (relative to the UK) are the only hopes for a 10 million unit mark. If the iPhone makes it into those markets by next February, I think we can see about 2 million units (combined) from those two markets. Adding this up, we get:

4 million US
2 million Japan+Germany
400k Canada
700k UK
Total: 7.1 million. Add that to this year's 2.5-2.7 million, and you see that we're just a little shy. A smaller market like France might push this over the edge, but again, this all depends on the date of release. If Apple can't make it by early next year, these numbers could fall as much as 5-10% per month of delay.

Linito
Sep 10, 2007, 10:07 PM
Just watch AAPL go! :P

elcid
Sep 10, 2007, 11:32 PM
Make one for Verizon and I'm sold.

Id be alllll over it.

CrusaderKnight
Sep 11, 2007, 02:44 AM
I bought an iPhone on Sunday Sept. 9th I should be getting it on the 11th

TheChillPill
Sep 11, 2007, 03:07 AM
Yes, and that's where it gets scary. Assuming the UK sales numbers correspond to US sales figures (they stay proportional to the population), we can only expect about 700,000 units from that market in 2008.


What is important to remember however is that Europe is a much advanced marketplace for Mobile sales than the US - and Europeans use their phones for much more than Americans do.

Many of my American friends are only just starting to grasp the concept of sms text messages - whereas in Europe, pretty much everyone uses sms (more so than calling in a lot of cases).

The fact that iPhone makes all these things far easier will make it appealing to Europeans - as well as the 'status' that will go with having one.

The only thing that will impact the sales figures is how accessible it is to people. If it's contract-only (i.e no Prepay) it won't be anywhere near as successfull as it otherwise would be.

blueskyrocket
Sep 11, 2007, 03:37 AM
so how long until the 2 millionth?! !!

My guess is less than the 74 days it took to sell the 1st million. Lets revisit this thread in 65 days time.

Pete:apple:

Agathon
Sep 11, 2007, 04:45 AM
Remember that the cost of the iPhone is over $2000 with contract. Thus the actual discount so far is less than 10%.

The Motorola RAZR was down from $500 to $100 in less than a year.

I expect the iPhone to be less than $300 and possibly even much less than that by the end of next year.

You tell me: who isn't going to buy an iPhone if they end up as cheap as some of the other phones on the market?

Glenny2lappies
Sep 11, 2007, 05:39 AM
4 million US
2 million Japan+Germany
400k Canada
700k UK
Total: 7.1 million. Add that to this year's 2.5-2.7 million, and you see that we're just a little shy. A smaller market like France might push this over the edge, but again, this all depends on the date of release. If Apple can't make it by early next year, these numbers could fall as much as 5-10% per month of delay.

What is important to remember however is that Europe is a much advanced marketplace for Mobile sales than the US - and Europeans use their phones for much more than Americans do.
...
The fact that iPhone makes all these things far easier will make it appealing to Europeans - as well as the 'status' that will go with having one.

I think we're getting too excited about a single phone. "Most people" don't care that it's an Apple, they want cheap, small and simple. Thinking of the huge market for kids here as well as non-techno-savvy adults.

Just some numbers; the US has a population of around 300M. Of those, say, a third either have or can have a phone (=100M). Of this market only 20% would be interested in an iPhone type device (=20M). Of this only a third would be in a position to buy one (=6.6M). And of these people a lot won't because of restrictions in their current contracts, etc., etc., etc.

One issue with the iPhone that would stop it being successful is, perversely, its success. As more iPhones are sold they become more common and looses it's appeal to the fashion victims - those people who are in the market for buying an iPhone because of it's trendyness and rareness. Take that away and these people start looking around for the latest trendy Sony/Nokia/Samsung partnered with Channel/l'Oreal/Armani/Hillfilger phone.

It's one hell of an achievement to sell 1M iPhones. But it's quite surprising that if they sold 300k in the first week, that it's taken 9 and a half weeks more to sell 700k. Hence the price drop.

Take away the pent-up demand in non-US markets and the numbers CalBoy quoted look awfully optimistic and very high.

Maybe this could bode well for an unlocked phone.

Of course Apple will be doing the sums: unlocking the iPhone would sell many times more devices in any market world-wide than selling a locked phone, but at the cost of loosing future revenues from the locked in phone telcos. Unfortunately you can't sell an unlocked iPhone in just one market; if Apple were, they'd be send back to the 'locked' markets in an instant - just imagine if they sold unlocked phones to Tonga they'd end up selling 5 million of them in a country with circa 50k people!

Maybe this means we'll never see an unlocked iPhone. Unless the iPod touch is the stalking horse for the next generation?

Glenny2lappies
Sep 11, 2007, 05:43 AM
My guess is less than the 74 days it took to sell the 1st million. Lets revisit this thread in 65 days time.

My guess is that it'll take a lot longer in the 'States. Apple have made quite a rod for their own back by tying themselves to one telco. Unlike Nokia et al who can flog their phones to all the telcos.

Will Steve live to regret this decision?

megfilmworks
Sep 11, 2007, 10:51 AM
My guess is that it'll take a lot longer in the 'States. Apple have made quite a rod for their own back by tying themselves to one telco. Unlike Nokia et al who can flog their phones to all the telcos.

Will Steve live to regret this decision?I disagree, if you want an iPhone you won't care who the carrier is. All carriers have issues and the iPhone needs a network that functions fully with Visual voicemail.

gwangung
Sep 11, 2007, 10:58 AM
Remember that the cost of the iPhone is over $2000 with contract. Thus the actual discount so far is less than 10%.

That's such an idiotic statement.

If you're going to be using data with the phone (and that's the POINT of such a device), you're paying that $2000 anyway.

Feh.

aristobrat
Sep 11, 2007, 11:39 AM
With the price drop, the price of the iPhone + 2 years worth of the special data plan comes out to be less expensive than the price of 2 years worth of regularly priced data.

So even if you can get another AT&T PDA phone for free, you end up paying more in the end.

$399 + ($20 x 24 months) = $879 (for the iPhone + 2 years of data)
$000 + ($40 x 24 months) = $960 (for a free PDA phone + 2 years of data)

Wonder if they'll do cheap data plans in Europe?

CalBoy
Sep 11, 2007, 07:18 PM
What is important to remember however is that Europe is a much advanced marketplace for Mobile sales than the US - and Europeans use their phones for much more than Americans do.

Many of my American friends are only just starting to grasp the concept of sms text messages - whereas in Europe, pretty much everyone uses sms (more so than calling in a lot of cases).

The fact that iPhone makes all these things far easier will make it appealing to Europeans - as well as the 'status' that will go with having one.

The only thing that will impact the sales figures is how accessible it is to people. If it's contract-only (i.e no Prepay) it won't be anywhere near as successfull as it otherwise would be.

Yes, Europeans use their phones a lot more than Americans do, but that's why the iPhone is less competitive there. The iPhone represents less of a "new" concept there. The European market is used to having much more capable phones, and they are also used to having more of their phones unlocked; a feat that is only partially achievable on the iPhone. Combine that with less consumer purchasing power, unknown pricing on Apple's part, and possible competitors jumping in before Apple, and you see why I came up with my estimates.

I think we're getting too excited about a single phone. "Most people" don't care that it's an Apple, they want cheap, small and simple. Thinking of the huge market for kids here as well as non-techno-savvy adults.

I don't know how you got the idea that "most" people want a "simple" phone, but I think it's partially flawed. Kids and tecno savvy adults aren't the only ones to whom the iPhone appeals. Add professionals like doctors, lawyers, MBAs, CEOs, and world leaders to your list, and then we have a better key demo to work with.

Just some numbers; the US has a population of around 300M. Of those, say, a third either have or can have a phone (=100M). Of this market only 20% would be interested in an iPhone type device (=20M). Of this only a third would be in a position to buy one (=6.6M). And of these people a lot won't because of restrictions in their current contracts, etc., etc., etc.

Your numbers are fundamentally flawed. The US has a mobile phone market of 233 million (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html#Comm) +. Seeing as this is 2.33 times greater than you thought, I'd say the built in US market for the iPhone is more likely around 15 million. Your point about old contracts becomes null after about 18 months; most people who want one will know when their contract expires, and will plan their purchase around that time.

One issue with the iPhone that would stop it being successful is, perversely, its success. As more iPhones are sold they become more common and looses it's appeal to the fashion victims - those people who are in the market for buying an iPhone because of it's trendyness and rareness. Take that away and these people start looking around for the latest trendy Sony/Nokia/Samsung partnered with Channel/l'Oreal/Armani/Hillfilger phone.

Sadly, yes. Apple products do seem to be in vogue, but that doesn't mean the technical merits of it won't be enough to keep driving sales.

Take away the pent-up demand in non-US markets and the numbers CalBoy quoted look awfully optimistic and very high.

Which is why I said, "this is where it gets scary.";)

Maybe this could bode well for an unlocked phone.

I hope, but I'm not counting on it. But if enought people can make the process fast and easy, Apple might be compelled do it for you after its 5 year deal with ATT runs out.

islanders
Sep 11, 2007, 08:39 PM
There is a 5 year contract and you buy the phone?

Sounds more like a classic Apple fumble on the one yard line.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I'm thinking small user base.

Seems like it should be $300 because it is a cool phone, and a 2 year deal. I say this because Direct TV is 2 year deal, and you don't pay for the equipment. Then if people like it they will keep the service.

Oh, well I guess we are used to it by now. There will be some other cool stuff out by some other company with more savvy marketing skills than Apple.

aristobrat
Sep 11, 2007, 09:09 PM
The 5 year contract is how long Apple is rumored to be partnered exclusively with AT&T ... nothing to do with the length of the contract a consumer gets when s/he buys an iPhone.

With DirecTV, you certainly do pay for their top-end equipment. Their normal price for their HD DVR is $299, and you never end up owning the thing. Despite paying the $299, when you cancel your service, you have to give it back. How crazy is that?

zwida
Sep 11, 2007, 09:16 PM
My guess is that it'll take a lot longer in the 'States. Apple have made quite a rod for their own back by tying themselves to one telco. Unlike Nokia et al who can flog their phones to all the telcos.

Will Steve live to regret this decision?

I don't think so. Sure, Apple would sell even more phones if they had an additional agreement with Verizon, but it's exceedingly unlikely that they would be getting the same revenue sharing without the exclusivity. This is a long-term cash-generating machine for Apple and I think they'll be just fine.

And if I were a betting man I would say that sales will accelerate for the next several quarters. That's just how they roll...

islanders
Sep 11, 2007, 09:30 PM
The 5 year contract is how long Apple is rumored to be partnered exclusively with AT&T ... nothing to do with the length of the contract a consumer gets when s/he buys an iPhone.

With DirecTV, you certainly do pay for their top-end equipment. Their normal price for their HD DVR is $299, and you never end up owning the thing. Despite paying the $299, when you cancel your service, you have to give it back. How crazy is that?


That's good news. I think a lot of people would/are considering the iPhone, but yeah, 5 year contract would be outrages.

I'm on Comcast month to month. The HD DVR is also free. they own it, i don't pay for it. The HD DVR for DTV was $199, but I agree.

But my point was all those dishes and cables are free with a 2 year contract.
They install it.

I hope the iPhone is competitive.

I just bought a car stereo from Crutchfields and if you can return it all for any reason for 30 days and they pay for the return shipping. You just print out the UPS code and take it to UPS.

I haven't even seen an iPhone. How do I know it will work for me? Can I return it without a restocking fee? Am I locked into a long contract if it really doesn't work for me?

Mal
Sep 11, 2007, 11:35 PM
Removed stupid and overly large quote.

Dude, shut up. We're not interested in your absurdly large and poorly worded spam post, and we've no sympathy at all. Ok, so some people might have some sympathy on those who have to wait for the iPhone to reach their country, but certainly not on you, who can't simply wait like a normal person, but instead has to whine and scream about it on an online forum.

Get a life.

jW

Glenny2lappies
Sep 12, 2007, 05:37 PM
Yes, Europeans use their phones a lot more than Americans do, but that's why the iPhone is less competitive there. The iPhone represents less of a "new" concept there. The European market is used to having much more capable phones, and they are also used to having more of their phones unlocked; a feat that is only partially achievable on the iPhone. Combine that with less consumer purchasing power, unknown pricing on Apple's part, and possible competitors jumping in before Apple, and you see why I came up with my estimates.

It's amazing how many SMS text messages are sent in the UK. Kids/young adults are constantly texting each other; far more often than talking. Watching people who are proficient in one thumb typing is quite intriguing. Most of the mobile phone plans will allow for a lot of text messages.

I wouldn't say that the phones are any different to the ones available in the 'States, just that texting is the norm.

I like the idea of the iPhone as it's got such a wonderful interface. I've played with one (in the UK!) and really like the virtual keyboard. Its by far the fastest way for me to enter text into a small format device.

I think the iPhone may get some people interested in it just because of this virtual keyboard.

I don't know how you got the idea that "most" people want a "simple" phone, but I think it's partially flawed. Kids and tecno savvy adults aren't the only ones to whom the iPhone appeals. Add professionals like doctors, lawyers, MBAs, CEOs, and world leaders to your list, and then we have a better key demo to work with.

By 'simple' I mean a small compact phone that can be used for sending text and will fit in the pocket. For example the Motorola razr.


Your numbers are fundamentally flawed. The US has a mobile phone market of 233 million (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html#Comm) +. Seeing as this is 2.33 times greater than you thought, I'd say the built in US market for the iPhone is more likely around 15 million. Your point about old contracts becomes null after about 18 months; most people who want one will know when their contract expires, and will plan their purchase around that time.

Struth! That's incredible. I would never have guessed that there were so many mobile phones. Little wonder Apple want a share of that market.


[sales of unlocked iPhones]I hope, but I'm not counting on it. But if enought people can make the process fast and easy, Apple might be compelled do it for you after its 5 year deal with ATT runs out.

My main point is that Apple would sell many times more iPhones if they were available on any carrier. OK, there's the added value of visual voice mail, but that will be an added value service that may be coming to may telcos in the future (I believe).

I'm sure Apple have very carefully calculated the incomes from the two scenarios: selling the phone unlocked at a higher price, and selling the phone tied into the providers and having a revenue share.

One thing's for sure; Steve's a smart cookie.

CalBoy
Sep 12, 2007, 11:30 PM
By 'simple' I mean a small compact phone that can be used for sending text and will fit in the pocket. For example the Motorola razr.

Ahh, I see what you're saying. In that case, the iPhone won't work too well because it's a bit large; that's why I was really interested in that now defunct rumor about an iPhone Nano.


Struth! That's incredible. I would never have guessed that there were so many mobile phones. Little wonder Apple want a share of that market.

Actually, I think Apple wanted to jump in more so because of the 1 billion phones used world wide. Add in emerging markets like India and China, and the future market for mobile phones will be quite large. Even 1% of it will be massive for any company.


My main point is that Apple would sell many times more iPhones if they were available on any carrier. OK, there's the added value of visual voice mail, but that will be an added value service that may be coming to may telcos in the future (I believe).

I'm sure Apple have very carefully calculated the incomes from the two scenarios: selling the phone unlocked at a higher price, and selling the phone tied into the providers and having a revenue share.

To be sure, sales would be higher if it was on multiple carriers. However, as you pointed out, $9 per month from ATT isn't a bad deal; over the course of a 24 month contract, it generates $216 in revenue. Considering that that is pure profit (Apple doesn't provide a service or product, so no over-head or expenses), and it makes sense why Apple would be willing to give up 50-60% of the (US) market; they make it up through the sharing plan.

One thing's for sure; Steve's a smart cookie.
Oh no doubt. He knows how to market, how to sell, and how to design. All good things for running a company.

pamon
Sep 13, 2007, 12:58 AM
should've been a bell that went off for that millionth iphone.. would've been awesome....

using mine since the beginning and love it...

looking for my $100 credit this week... apple...:)

drater
Sep 13, 2007, 03:26 AM
Is it true that the battery (http://www.sourcingmap.com/ipod-chargers-batteries-c-983_1069.html?page=2) installed inside the iPhone can only be changed at the factory? I heard that it cannot be removed by the user. If true, than the user must send the phone back to Apple. I also heard that surfing the net is painfully slow. I am curious if the LCD can be easily seen in bright sunlight. Hopefully one day, phones with the brighter OLED screens will be sold.:apple:

It is true the battery only be changed at the factory.
Out of Warrenty: http://www.apple.com/support/iphone/service/battery/

Surfing the net not as bad as I initially thought. EDGE can be pretty darn slow, but it is also not loading up a WAP browser like on other phones. They are full HTML pages. But the option of WIFI on the phone makes it really nice and very quick. 3g would have been nice, but I understand the reasons behind it. Hopefully they will come out with a 3g in the future, but not too near future cause Apple fans will flip their $*&^ if they do.

I have had no problems with the LCD, it has a light sensor so if I am at home, and the lights are off and I'm watching TV it doesn't go as bright (unless I turn that option off). In the sun it does the same thing. But if you're in the blazing sun you aren't going to get a clear picture. It is the second best resolution screen Apple has ever shipped (second only to the new iPod nano that just came out).

OLED screens would be nice on phones, but that won't happen for a while. TVs haven't even gotten it yet and the cost of putting them on the iPhone would make it a lot more expensive. But it is a very beautiful screen. I'd suggest, if you haven't already, go to your local Apple or ATT store and play with an iPhone. You'll love it.

Project
Sep 13, 2007, 03:37 AM
I wouldn't say that the phones are any different to the ones available in the 'States, just that texting is the norm.


I agree and it baffles me when people say that Europe is this super advanced continent when it comes to cell phones. Its just not true. We basically get the exact same phones as the states, just a few months earlier. The iPhone here will be competing against the likes of the N95, just like it is in the States. It will also be compared with BlackBerrys which are huge in businesses here, and Windows Mobile phones which are gaining ground. The exact same BlackBerrys and WM phones.
Also, around 90% of phones sold in the UK for instance, are NOT 3G so I do not see why people think it will fail if it ships here with EDGE (which is superior to GPRS which is what 90% of phone in the UK use). And 3G coverage in the UK is not as widespread as people believe. I have spotty coverage on O2 in Manchester - one of the biggest cities in the country.

the biggest difference is in the texting as you say. But America is slowly getting into the whole SMS thing too and you have services like Facebook and Twitter that are pushing it further. Barely anybody video calls in the UK. I have *never* seen anybody video calling. Never.

Now when comparing to Japan and South Korea, yes, those are very different markets, both in terms of usage and culture. But Europe (outside of Scandinavia, which are tiny markets anyway) is pretty much the same as the States in terms of handset technology and models.

ruutiveijari
Sep 13, 2007, 04:00 AM
We basically get the exact same phones as the states, just a few months earlier.
Not exactly. Quite a few models are toned down models of the ones we are using in Europe. This is because in the 'States providers tell the manufacturers what they want. For example the Nokia E61 turned in to Nokia E62 which is basically the same phone but with out 3G and WLAN.

aristobrat
Sep 13, 2007, 08:52 AM
I agree and it baffles me when people say that Europe is this super advanced continent when it comes to cell phones. Its just not true. We basically get the exact same phones as the states, just a few months earlier. The iPhone here will be competing against the likes of the N95, just like it is in the States.
I wouldn't say that the iPhone competes against the N95 here in the States because no US carrier offers the N95 as a choice, and the vast majority of US folks will only consider a phone if its offered by their carrier.

Project
Sep 13, 2007, 09:16 AM
I wouldn't say that the iPhone competes against the N95 here in the States because no US carrier offers the N95 as a choice, and the vast majority of US folks will only consider a phone if its offered by their carrier.

Im talking about in terms of perception and market position; almost all iPhone reviews compare it to the N95 because that is/was a similar price and represented the top of the line multimedia phone from the dominant mobile company.

aristobrat
Sep 13, 2007, 09:49 AM
My point was more towards your comment that "We [Europe] basically get the exact same phones as the states, just a few months earlier."

In essence, that's not correct.

What I mean is that even though European phones (like the N95) can be purchased through resellers, the fact that none of the US mobile companies (AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint, Verizon, or any of the smaller ones) carry them means that to the average US consumer, those phones aren't available in the US.

Project
Sep 13, 2007, 11:56 AM
My point was more towards your comment that "We [Europe] basically get the exact same phones as the states, just a few months earlier."

In essence, that's not correct.

What I mean is that even though European phones (like the N95) can be purchased through resellers, the fact that none of the US mobile companies (AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint, Verizon, or any of the smaller ones) carry them means that to the average US consumer, those phones aren't available in the US.

How is it not correct when you can purchase a Nokia N95 in the States right now? The N95 is not a phone for the average US consumer, but if they wanted to they could buy it right now from the Nokia stores in the US or from a host of online stores. Hence the 'same phones as the States'.

My post said nothing on distribution and what carriers pick it up. It was about the types of phones available to US users and how they are not dramatically different to what we can get in the UK, and mostly the same.

aristobrat
Sep 13, 2007, 02:53 PM
That's exactly why I said "in essence" before I said "that's not correct". It is true that virtually every phone offered in Europe can be purchased in the US.

Until the cell phones that are offered at normal prices to European consumers are offered at normal prices to US consumers, there's going to be the perception that Europe is some super-advanced continent when it comes to cell phones.

That is what you were baffled about a few posts ago, no?

megfilmworks
Sep 13, 2007, 08:10 PM
I was surprised last week in two pretty hip cities (Amsterdam and Dublin) that very few people even knew what my iPhone was. But I have also noticed the vast majority of Americans outside the tech and entertainment world don't know much more than asking "Is that one of those Apple phones?" I have found Sweden, Finland, Norway and Germany to be the most advanced with regard to high tech cell phones and knowledge of same.