PDA

View Full Version : Intel On Track To Deliver Penryn, Nehalem




MacRumors
Sep 18, 2007, 12:57 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Today at the Intel Developer Forum, Intel CEO Paul Otellini affirmed that Intel's Penryn and Nehalem family of processors are on track (http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20070918corp_a.htm?iid=pr1_releasepri_20070918ar) for their releases this year and next year, respectively.

"We expect our Penryn processors to provide up to a 20 percent performance increase while improving energy efficiency," said Otellini. "Intel's breakthrough 45nm silicon process technology allows us to provide low-cost, extremely low-power processors for innovative small form factor devices while delivering high-performance, multi-core, multi-featured processors used in the most advanced systems."

Penryn will start shipping in November of this year, and it is expected that Apple will use the variants in its products.

Meanwhile, Otellini also previewed Intel's upcoming new Nehalem architecture.

"Nehalem is an entirely new architecture that leverages Intel's Core Microarchitecture, bringing leading-edge performance advantages, power efficiency and important new server features to market just a year after Intel leads the industry to 45nm technology," said Otellini.

One of Nehalem's advancements will be the use of the QuickPath Interconnect system architecture, which includes an integrated memory controller and improved communication links between system components to significantly improve overall system performance. An advanced version of hyperthreading will also make a comeback in Nehalem.

While Nehalem will begin on 45nm technology in late-summer 2008, Intel plans to quickly move to 32nm production in 2009. DailyTech notes that Mac OS X successfully boots on Nehalem (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8927).

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/18/intel-on-track-to-deliver-penryn-nehalem/)



morespce54
Sep 18, 2007, 01:02 PM
all sounds really good... :)

princealfie
Sep 18, 2007, 01:03 PM
thanks for the update! :)

theheyes
Sep 18, 2007, 01:03 PM
One step closer to my iMac Quad.

Naimfan
Sep 18, 2007, 01:05 PM
32nM?!?! All I can say is "Wow!" That is amazing.

B

fanbrain
Sep 18, 2007, 01:06 PM
I can't wait to see what these are going in. I'm in the market for a dual 2.0 G5. New machines can't come sooner!

Eidorian
Sep 18, 2007, 01:08 PM
I wonder how the QuickPath Interconnect will effect motherboard compatibility.

Cabbit
Sep 18, 2007, 01:11 PM
oh god not hyperthreading again, tried and faild technology

thepandamancan
Sep 18, 2007, 01:13 PM
would these find its way into macbook pros by the end of the year? would it be worth it to wait or buy a macbook pro now?

bigjohn
Sep 18, 2007, 01:15 PM
1 step closer to 1nm

Clive At Five
Sep 18, 2007, 01:17 PM
32nm is pretty amazing. Think about it... it's less than a tenth of the length of the shortest wavelength of visible light... So basically, humans are producing objects well beyond our ability of sight.

Someone should take an electron microscope to these 32nm grooves... I'd like to see them close-up.

-Clive

MikeTheC
Sep 18, 2007, 01:18 PM
I'm hoping they've learned their P4 lesson and got it right this time.

Arguably, the Centrino and Core Duo/Core2Duo CPUs have been truly excellent architectures, so clearly someone at Intel is getting it right. I just hope the new ones are being architected by the same crew.

Time will tell; it always does. -- The Seventh Doctor

0racle
Sep 18, 2007, 01:22 PM
Arguably, the Centrino and Core Duo/Core2Duo CPUsr

Nitpicking, but Centrino isn't a processor.

Eidorian
Sep 18, 2007, 01:25 PM
Centrino = Core 2 Duo (Merom) + GM/PM965 + Intel Wireless

Hopefully hyperthreading is a bit more intelligent this time around.

CHROMEDOME
Sep 18, 2007, 01:30 PM
Centrino = Core 2 Duo (Merom) + GM/PM965 + Intel Wireless

Hopefully hyperthreading is a bit more intelligent this time around.

Centrino is nothing more than a marketing scheme. It just means intel stuff inside a laptop.

cube
Sep 18, 2007, 01:44 PM
Meanwhile AMD improves the mainstream segment by announcing tri-core processors.

masse
Sep 18, 2007, 01:46 PM
Still waiting...

MikeTheC
Sep 18, 2007, 01:50 PM
Centrino is nothing more than a marketing scheme. It just means intel stuff inside a laptop.

Yes, I understand that. I was simply being general in that statement, since there are also various revisions in play on that platform, and I wasn't trying to get dragged down into pointless detail.

Nevertheless, I'm still hoping for the best.

And as far as AMD goes, well... they backed a losing horse in their processor road map, and Intel skunked them. It's too bad, really, but while AMD may be down, they're certainly not out, which is a good thing because it promotes competition, and that's a healthy thing for the x86-using Mac platform out there.

SMM
Sep 18, 2007, 01:56 PM
So, how do three people find this negative?

psychofreak
Sep 18, 2007, 01:59 PM
I'm getting excited...its not like I'm going to buy a desktop, but trying new computers in the Apple Store is just my cup of tea :)

cube
Sep 18, 2007, 01:59 PM
But now AMD is not against MCM anymore and is ready for octo-core Montreal in 2008, based on Shanghai.

k2k koos
Sep 18, 2007, 02:04 PM
32nm is pretty amazing. Think about it... it's less than a tenth of the length of the shortest wavelength of visible light... So basically, humans are producing objects well beyond our ability of sight.

Someone should take an electron microscope to these 32nm grooves... I'd like to see them close-up.

-Clive

That is indeed very impressive, and I would love to see one of these through an electron microscope, marvels of technology.:apple:

ruutiveijari
Sep 18, 2007, 02:12 PM
It's quite amazing how fast these processors are these days. Just imagine 10, 15 years in to the future.

smivvy
Sep 18, 2007, 02:15 PM
Do I wait for these new processors or do I buy my new mac pro now?

Bearing in mind my current 4yr old G4 has died a sudden death! :(

CJD2112
Sep 18, 2007, 02:15 PM
Damn, so now my Mac Pro 2.66 will be even MORE obsolete lol...

Sucks I couldn't just drop one of those new chipsets into my Mac Pro like the quad core processors and get an upgrade. Pretty cool stuff, just hoping Intel makes actual use of hyperthreading. I remember when I had a P4 3.0 GHrtz Intel Hyper-thread chip and I thought it was the coolest thing lol. The power of marketing...

slughead
Sep 18, 2007, 02:16 PM
So does that mean we'll see a mac pro update before 2008? The Mac Pro hasn't been seriously updated nor a price adjustment since its introduction in AUGUST of 2006. The video cards alone are ~20 months old.

Oh but it doesn't need to be upgraded yet... (for the flame war on that, check the MP/PM forum)

andiwm2003
Sep 18, 2007, 02:21 PM
so with more energy efficient processors are there quadcore MBP on the horizon?

and what are the chances of a 13" MBP 2.4GHz with penryn?

CJD2112
Sep 18, 2007, 02:24 PM
So does that mean we'll see a mac pro update before 2008? The Mac Pro hasn't been seriously updated nor a price adjustment since its introduction in AUGUST of 2006. The video cards alone are ~20 months old.

Oh but it doesn't need to be upgraded yet... (for the flame war on that, check the MP/PM forum)

Try the Cinema Displays, it's been since 2004 (three years) that Apple has revamped the Display line, leaving Mac Pro owners in the dust with Front Row (no IR sensor that could be implemented in the display), and built in iSights would be nice.

I have a 23" one from 2004 that works well (knock on wood), but would like to replace it with a new monitor and give my aluminum display away to someone who needs it. Maybe with the release of Leopard we will see revamped displays...

seashellz
Sep 18, 2007, 02:26 PM
...this stuff just has to be back-engineered from the Roswell crash....;-)

netdog
Sep 18, 2007, 02:27 PM
So, how do three people find this negative?

They want Nehalem now and Penryn yesterday.

offwidafairies
Sep 18, 2007, 02:28 PM
so with more energy efficient processors are there quadcore MBP on the horizon?

this is what i want to know?
im in the market for a mbp next month... but should i wait? and for how long?

netdog
Sep 18, 2007, 02:31 PM
Try the Cinema Displays, it's been since 2004 (three years) that Apple has revamped the Display line, leaving Mac Pro owners in the dust with Front Row (no IR sensor that could be implemented in the display), and built in iSights would be nice.


I wish that people would stop saying that ACDs haven't been updated since 2004. They get quiet updates whenever LCDs improve. As for the iSight and IR-sensors, while I can appreciate that many would like these, I think that this is a choice by Apple as they don't see Pro machines as needing webcams and Front Row.

Actually, I think that Front Row has become a stale paradigm, and personally I find iTunes running AirTunes and AppleTV running music and video to be much more compelling that taking up my screen with an interface that I never found to be that great in the first place. Of course, I do appreciate that others have a different and valid opinion there.

/rant

FJ218700
Sep 18, 2007, 02:31 PM
I can't wait to see what these are going in. I'm in the market for a dual 2.0 G5. New machines can't come sooner!

they will be going into the new G6 PB's

MikieMikie
Sep 18, 2007, 02:32 PM
Do I wait for these new processors or do I buy my new mac pro now?

Bearing in mind my current 4yr old G4 has died a sudden death! :(

I am still using a 6 yr. old Dual G4.

I want a new Mac Pro, and with this news, I think I'll try waiting a little longer.

-- Mikie

live4ever
Sep 18, 2007, 02:33 PM
The integrated memory controller should give a nice boost in performance.

netdog
Sep 18, 2007, 02:33 PM
this is what i want to know?
im in the market for a mbp next month... but should i wait? and for how long?

You'll be waiting quite some time. We are hoping to get Penryn into Mac Pros by November. The laptop chips won't be ready for awhile.

Maccus Aurelius
Sep 18, 2007, 02:35 PM
*hugs macbook*

It's nice to be able to wait....for a long long time :D

stompy
Sep 18, 2007, 02:36 PM
would these find its way into macbook pros by the end of the year? would it be worth it to wait or buy a macbook pro now?

Apple doesn't announce new hardware after the first week of November. If you don't need one between now and MWSF in January, and you think the CPU upgrade is worth it, go ahead and wait.

If you need it now, buy it now.

plumbingandtech
Sep 18, 2007, 02:38 PM
I am still using a 6 yr. old Dual G4.

I want a new Mac Pro, and with this news, I think I'll try waiting a little longer.

-- Mikie

You might also consider buying a refurbed or old Mac Pro from the apple store once these new machines ship. Since you are not needing that much power the current Mac Pro should be more then enough and the difference in power between the old and the new may not justify the price difference in your case.

Just food for thought.

I own a mac pro and still, despite not being updated for a while, these machines just run sooooo smooth...

DTphonehome
Sep 18, 2007, 02:39 PM
Is this the sort of thing we can expect in the next iMac update, or more of a Mac Pro thing? I'm gonna get an iMac in the next revision, so I'm wondering what major updates are on the horizon.

netdog
Sep 18, 2007, 02:40 PM
would these find its way into macbook pros by the end of the year? would it be worth it to wait or buy a macbook pro now?

Won't be ready for MacWorld 08 either. Maybe 3rd quarter 08? Multimedia will step in and answer this and the iMac question soon.

Kuska
Sep 18, 2007, 02:41 PM
The innovation track just gets faster and faster!

A serious question - does anyone think Penryn will find it's way into the iMac before June '08 ?

Still have time to cancel my 2.8Ghz iMac order and keep the G5 wheezing for a little longer.......

Noticed that car manufacturers do this also - launch the special edition / extreme edition / Sports whatever............just before the new version arrives.

Kuska

netdog
Sep 18, 2007, 02:43 PM
Multimedia,

Do you plan to get Penryn or hold on until Nehalem finds its way into the Mac Pro and why?

tk421
Sep 18, 2007, 02:46 PM
Apple doesn't announce new hardware after the first week of November. If you don't need one between now and MWSF in January, and you think the CPU upgrade is worth it, go ahead and wait.

If you need it now, buy it now.

That may be true, but I think it's quite likely that the MacPro will be updated in late October.

Apple has released machines with new Intel processors before those processors were officially available. October is also when the new OS is available. It could be released alongside it.

netdog
Sep 18, 2007, 02:48 PM
That may be true, but I think it's quite likely that the MacPro will be updated in late October.

Historically, Apple has released machines with new Intel processors before those processors were officially available. October is also when the new OS is available. It could be released alongside it.

I'd be willing to bet that Steve will demo Leopard and FCS2 on it.

phalewhale
Sep 18, 2007, 02:49 PM
Impressive...
Most Impressive!
:apple:

tk421
Sep 18, 2007, 02:50 PM
Is this the sort of thing we can expect in the next iMac update, or more of a Mac Pro thing? I'm gonna get an iMac in the next revision, so I'm wondering what major updates are on the horizon.

Initially, Penryn will be a Xeon processor. So that means Mac Pro, not iMac. (see here (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/15/intels-penryn-xeon-processors-due-in-november/)).

morespce54
Sep 18, 2007, 02:52 PM
So, how do three people find this negative?
They want Nehalem now and Penryn yesterday.

They want Nehalem now and Penryn yesterday.



It's probably more about the "Hyper-mega-ulber threading" stuff which was never been successful (so far)... ;)

stompy
Sep 18, 2007, 02:54 PM
That may be true, but I think it's quite likely that the MacPro will be updated in late October.

Historically, Apple has released machines with new Intel processors before those processors were officially available. October is also when the new OS is available. It could be released alongside it.

I just meant that if it's not announced by the first week of November, the window has closed until January. Then again, things I never envisioned happen all the time.

MikeTheC
Sep 18, 2007, 02:58 PM
The integrated memory controller should give a nice boost in performance.

Oh yes, absolutely, I agree 100% that...

Waitaminit... What was I talking about again? I can't remember. :p

aussie_geek
Sep 18, 2007, 03:09 PM
...this stuff just has to be back-engineered from the Roswell crash....;-)


LOL - nice one :D:D

digitalbiker
Sep 18, 2007, 03:14 PM
You'll be waiting quite some time. We are hoping to get Penryn into Mac Pros by November. The laptop chips won't be ready for awhile.

I thought the Penryn is essentially a low power laptop or iMac chip. The server and desktop chip is the Nehalem. So I think you are backwards here.

Macbook Pro update at MW2008 and Mac Pro update at WWDC in June/July 2008.

The Octo Xeon will be the flagship desktop chip until summer 2008.

ChrisA
Sep 18, 2007, 03:15 PM
oh god not hyperthreading again, tried and faild technology

Why do you say that?

Sun's low-end processor, the T1 has 8 physical cores
with each having 4-way "hyper threading". It can
run 32 threads per chip. The T1 works
well for the intended use, serving web pages.
http://www.sun.com/processors/UltraSPARC-T1/

I have a dual Xeon system here. I've enable hyper-
threading. I tested it both ways and I get better performance with hyperthreading enabled. This machine runs Linux and most of it's load is runnig a DBMS.

I think where hyperthreading does not work is where the user does not have more then one task to run. A lot of kids were disapointed that their video games did not run faster.

netdog
Sep 18, 2007, 03:18 PM
I thought the Penryn is essentially a low power laptop or iMac chip. The server and desktop chip is the Nehalem. So I think you are backwards here.

Macbook Pro update at MW2008 and Mac Pro update at WWDC in June/July 2008.

The Octo Xeon will be the flagship desktop chip until summer 2008.

That is incorrect sir. The November Penryns will be 45nm quad-core Xeon processors and will replace the current 65nm Xeon dual-core and quad-core chips in the current Mac Pros.

bananas
Sep 18, 2007, 03:37 PM
so with more energy efficient processors are there quadcore MBP on the horizon?

and what are the chances of a 13" MBP 2.4GHz with penryn?

I'm quite sure we will see quad core laptop processors next year.

I'd rather see Macbook update than a 13" MBP. There has to be enough difference between pro and regular, and imo screen size is big enough difference.

DTphonehome
Sep 18, 2007, 03:37 PM
Initially, Penryn will be a Xeon processor. So that means Mac Pro, not iMac. (see here (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/15/intels-penryn-xeon-processors-due-in-november/)).

Cool, thanks for the info. Are there any big developments expected for the next iMac rev?

twoodcc
Sep 18, 2007, 03:42 PM
awesome :)

now lets see them in a mac pro this year :apple:

morespce54
Sep 18, 2007, 04:00 PM
Cool, thanks for the info. Are there any big developments expected for the next iMac rev?

Yes, I heard they seriously think about going back to white...less buggy ;):D

(Sorry, it's late...)

SiliconAddict
Sep 18, 2007, 04:06 PM
oh god not hyperthreading again, tried and faild technology

There is a difference between failed and poorly implemented. The P4, which was the bread and butter of HT, was the latter.

CJD2112
Sep 18, 2007, 04:12 PM
I wish that people would stop saying that ACDs haven't been updated since 2004. They get quiet updates whenever LCDs improve. As for the iSight and IR-sensors, while I can appreciate that many would like these, I think that this is a choice by Apple as they don't see Pro machines as needing webcams and Front Row.

Actually, I think that Front Row has become a stale paradigm, and personally I find iTunes running AirTunes and AppleTV running music and video to be much more compelling that taking up my screen with an interface that I never found to be that great in the first place. Of course, I do appreciate that others have a different and valid opinion there.

/rant

So, basically, you're telling me that the most expensive machine Apple sells shouldn't have access to all of OS X's features? News flash, just because it's a Mac "Pro" line doesn't mean only professionals use it. I'm a student (again) in design and I would love to have use of Front Row. Besides, I have numerous friends who are professionals, and would like the use of a remote to show clients their completed projects. Front Row is great for displaying film and projects, so I highly doubt it's "stale", especially as Apple has been pushing it in their new products such as the iMac and Mac Mini (but again, not in their top of the line Mac Pro that sells for $2400+). As for iSights, are you kidding? Um, how about tele-commuting or web conferencing? The Mac Book PRO's have webcams, do those "professionals" not need iSights built in? Doesn't make any sense.

As for the displays, they have been SLIGHTLY updated, no big change. Brightness and some resolution adjustments, but as I own both a 2004 and 2007 23" ACD I know there hasn't been much done to the ACD line since 2004. I find this amusing since Apple has updated the iMac, Mac Mini, iPods numerous times but have left Mac Pro and Mac Mini users high and dry with stale displays.

and sorry for the rant, but I a sick of people using the excuse time and time again that Front Row isn't a big deal and professionals don't need it on the desktop Mac. After spending a couple thousand on a Mac Pro and display(s), I'd like to be able to use the same features offered to lower end Mac products. It's the equivalent of offering leather on only the 3 series Beamer but not on the 5,6, or 7 series models, it just doesn't make sense.

JesterJJZ
Sep 18, 2007, 04:26 PM
I think that this is a choice by Apple as they don't see Pro machines as needing webcams and Front Row.


They don't.

CJD2112
Sep 18, 2007, 04:34 PM
They don't.

and how do you know this? The iSight was sold specifically for use with ACD's, and everyone I know who has a Power Mac or Mac Pro uses their iSights for teleconferencing, not just playing around on iChat.

Saying that Apple doesn't believe Front Row and iSights aren't necessary for professionals (and assuming only professionals buy Mac Pro's, they don't) is illogical. They sold my iSight bundled with a magnet fitting to go onto my ACD, where it sits currently, so if they didn't care why did they make them with Mac Pro optional mounts? :rolleyes:

suneohair
Sep 18, 2007, 04:42 PM
I thought the Penryn is essentially a low power laptop or iMac chip. The server and desktop chip is the Nehalem. So I think you are backwards here.

Macbook Pro update at MW2008 and Mac Pro update at WWDC in June/July 2008.

The Octo Xeon will be the flagship desktop chip until summer 2008.

Someone already jumped on this, but you are most definetly wrong here. Penryn is a 45nm shrink of the Core 2 Duo. It will come in the flavors of Server/Workstation, Desktop and notebook.

Xeon is the first to get this new treatment, along with faster bus and more cache. New chipsets too :)

A quad Macbook pro is a long way off my friend. At least 6 months.

Now, an all octo Mac Pro line. Coming to an Apple Store near you very soon. It is you who are backwards.

Wikipedia and Google are your friend :apple:

merman637
Sep 18, 2007, 04:56 PM
would these find its way into macbook pros by the end of the year? would it be worth it to wait or buy a macbook pro now?
Seriously?

Is ANYONE besides me getting really tired of this friggin question every time intel farts?

If you want a Macbook / Pro get one. If not, get off the pot! Something tells me you just wanted something to say and arent even in the market for a new machine anyways.
Rant over.

OldCorpse
Sep 18, 2007, 05:17 PM
Cool: fast progress at Intel. Too bad: this stuff will be slow to make its way into the 'puters I'm likely to buy: MB and iMac. Frankly, I think it makes sense to wait for Nehalem, as that's new architecture, while Penryn is just a shrink of the same old stuff we have today. So the question is, when are we likely to see Nehalem in an iMac? I'm afraid that if they intro Nehalem mid-late 2008, it won't make its way into iMacs until about a year later, so late 2009 or even early 2010. That's too long to wait. Oh well, I'll hang on to my current machines as long as I can and see what's available later.

SirOmega
Sep 18, 2007, 05:17 PM
Now, an all octo Mac Pro line. Coming to an Apple Store near you very soon.

Thats pretty much what I came here to say. If you look at the agressive prices Intel is using to push the chips, there is no reason not to have an all octo lineup...

The current price for a single Xeon 2.0Ghz dual core (found in the cheapest MacPro) is $316. Thats also the same price for the new penryn Xeon 2.5GHz quad core chip. I would guess the lineup would be this...

Cheaper: Xeon 2.5GHz/1333MHz FSB
$2499: Xeon 2.8Ghz/1600MHz FSB
More Expensive: Xeon 3Ghz/1600MHz FSB

Unless Apple wants to bring back the $1999 Mac Pro and use the cheaper/slower 2.3Ghz QC or DC chips.

azentropy
Sep 18, 2007, 05:19 PM
Someone already jumped on this, but you are most definetly wrong here. Penryn is a 45nm shrink of the Core 2 Duo. It will come in the flavors of Server/Workstation, Desktop and notebook.


Apple doesn't make a machine that uses the Desktop processor line, so we can ignore that flavor :mad:

AidenShaw
Sep 18, 2007, 05:43 PM
Historically, Apple has released machines with new Intel processors before those processors were officially available. October is also when the new OS is available. It could be released alongside it.

LOL - one minor case doesn't make it an historical trend!

Yonah: (Core mobile) Apple announced Yonah systems (iMac/MacBook Pro) at MacWorld the week following Intel's announcement of Yonah at CES in Jan 2006.

Woodcrest: (Core 2 Xeon) Intel announced shipping status for Wordcrest (Xeon 5100) on 26 June 2006. The MacPro was announced at WWDC in August, just over a month later.

Merom: (Core 2 mobile) Announced 27 July 2006, first used in MBP in October and the MB in November.

Clovertown: (Core 2 Xeon quad)
Apple was 5 or 6 months *late* in releasing Clovertown (quad-core 5300 series Xeon) processors. The other manufacturers announced them in November and were shipping by mid-December.

Apple didn't announce/ship the BTO option of the 5300-series chips in the existing Mac Pro motherboards until early April 2007.

What Apple did do, however, was ship the early 150-watt X5365 speed bin chips a few weeks before they were available from other vendors. SuperMicro and a couple of other 2nd tier vendors had them, and the 150-watt parts could be found on the street.

Most of the big vendors, however, passed on using the 150-watt chips that Apple was using, and waited for the newer design "G0" stepping which was recently announced on 14 August - which ran at the same 120-watt TDP rating as the 2.66 GHz chips. (Apple's maxi-tower was built to cool the raging furnace called a G5 - it could handle the heat, whereas many of the mainstream 1U/2U servers weren't able to deal with an additional 60 watts of heat and power consumption.)

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=339058

Historically, Apple has only been first once, and that was for a b#st#rd high wattage design that the other vendors ignored.

alljunks
Sep 18, 2007, 05:57 PM
i guess they are not giving AMD any breathing room!!

Eidorian
Sep 18, 2007, 06:09 PM
Is this the sort of thing we can expect in the next iMac update, or more of a Mac Pro thing? I'm gonna get an iMac in the next revision, so I'm wondering what major updates are on the horizon.Expect Penryn mobile chips next year.

Umbongo
Sep 18, 2007, 06:29 PM
Thats pretty much what I came here to say. If you look at the agressive prices Intel is using to push the chips, there is no reason not to have an all octo lineup...

The current price for a single Xeon 2.0Ghz dual core (found in the cheapest MacPro) is $316. Thats also the same price for the new penryn Xeon 2.5GHz quad core chip. I would guess the lineup would be this...

Cheaper: Xeon 2.5GHz/1333MHz FSB
$2499: Xeon 2.8Ghz/1600MHz FSB
More Expensive: Xeon 3Ghz/1600MHz FSB

Unless Apple wants to bring back the $1999 Mac Pro and use the cheaper/slower 2.3Ghz QC or DC chips.

I doubt Apple will have the 3GHz Xeons (same speed as currently available, not much gap from 2.8GHz). 3.2GHz aren't being released to retail as Intel need to build up supply, but Apple would probably be able to get access to them.

TurboSC
Sep 18, 2007, 06:31 PM
All i know is they better update the lineup soon, I need to get a mac dammit.

Eidorian
Sep 18, 2007, 06:49 PM
Anandtech
Intel "Harpertown" Xeon vs. AMD "Barcelona" Opteron (http://anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=3099)

Intel Developer Forum 2007 - Day 1: Nehalem, Intel's GPUs, 32nm and More (http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3101)

"Nehalem" Taped-out and Running Windows (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8927)

Inquirer.net
Intel Skulltrail supports SLI, Quad SLI (http://theinquirer.net/?article=42442)

Skulltrail doesn't FASN8, it does obliterate (http://theinquirer.net/?article=42441)

Harpertown benchmarks show a monster in the making (http://theinquirer.net/?article=42423)

Intel shows off two big platforms (http://theinquirer.net/?article=42435)

Behardware.com
Socket B & Bloomfield in 2008 (http://www.behardware.com/news/8644/socket-b-bloomfield-in-2008.html)

tk421
Sep 18, 2007, 07:01 PM
Historically? That's hysterical! LOL - one minor case doesn't make it an historical trend! etc.

No need to be confrontational. My point is that is has happened, which it has, and recently. I never used the word trend. And if you look at the context, I was pointing out that they weren't necessarily going to be delayed all the way until MWSF in January. I guess I didn't realize one word was cause for a lengthy rebuttal.

commander.data
Sep 18, 2007, 08:06 PM
I doubt Apple will have the 3GHz Xeons (same speed as currently available, not much gap from 2.8GHz). 3.2GHz aren't being released to retail as Intel need to build up supply, but Apple would probably be able to get access to them.
It's not really the Penryn core that makes the new Xeons so special but the new Stoakley platform. Between 1600Mhz FSBs, low-latency 800MHz FB-DIMMs, a redesigned memory controller, and an expanded snoop filter, the new Xeons offer quite tangible performance increases even at the same clock speeds. What's also very significant, is that between switching to a 45nm process for the CPU, a 90nm process for the northbridge, and newer FB-DIMMs, power consumption under peak load has actually gone down 25% at the same clock speed which is quite significant.

http://www.techreport.com/articles.x/13224/2

I can definitely seeing Apple getting first dibs on Harpertown and Stoakley in November. The Mac Pro is in need of a refresh anyways, since the Cloverton was more an addition rather than a refresh, so it's good timing.

For mobiles, Penryn won't be out for mobile until Q1 2008, and Intel isn't likely to rush it since they have no competition performance-wise in mobiles. Apple, may well wait till Q2 to refresh the MBP, since the new Montevina platform is coming out then and there is no sense having to refresh the MBP twice in 3 months. Montevina is really the "true" platform for Penryn anyways with 1067MHz FSB and DDR3 support. In terms of quad core mobile chips, there are no plans to release them into mainstream. There are plans for a quad core mobile chip in H2 2008, but it'll be Penryn based, not Nehalem, and will only be an Extreme Edition part given it's 35W TDP. Quad-core mobile parts may not even be needed with Nehalem, since with SMT/HT, 4 virtual cores will probably be enough for mobile applications.

AidenShaw
Sep 18, 2007, 08:12 PM
No need to be confrontational. My point is that is has happened, which it has, and recently. I never used the word trend.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/historically

historically

adverb
1. throughout history; "historically they have never coexisted peacefully"
2. with respect to history; "this is historically interesting"

Sorry that you took my reply as confrontational - but the word "historically" does exactly refer to a trend. In a sentence, you can replace the word "historically" with the phrase "throughout history" without changing the meaning.

In the case of Apple and early access to Intel chips, clearly "throughout history" is not accurate.

I was replying to what you said, but perhaps not what you meant to say.

Ooops, another long-winded rebuttal ;)

Chef Medeski
Sep 18, 2007, 08:36 PM
I wish that people would stop saying that ACDs haven't been updated since 2004. They get quiet updates whenever LCDs improve. As for the iSight and IR-sensors, while I can appreciate that many would like these, I think that this is a choice by Apple as they don't see Pro machines as needing webcams and Front Row.

Actually, I think that Front Row has become a stale paradigm, and personally I find iTunes running AirTunes and AppleTV running music and video to be much more compelling that taking up my screen with an interface that I never found to be that great in the first place. Of course, I do appreciate that others have a different and valid opinion there.

/rant

Front Row 2 is supposed to mimic more closely Apple TV due out with Leopard. I do agree Front Row ia bit limiting but for a first release item thats fairly innovative, I do find it enjoyable. It really helps use my MBP as more central digital enternatiment since I can play songs from across the room with all the info being clearly seen. But an update will be happy and its coming. Personally I think the remote is too limiting. Theres so many options ofr this thing but you have to think you only have 6 controls. If only they had clickwheels and could have a lot more....

ksz
Sep 18, 2007, 09:51 PM
No need to be confrontational. My point is that is has happened, which it has, and recently. I never used the word trend. And if you look at the context, I was pointing out that they weren't necessarily going to be delayed all the way until MWSF in January. I guess I didn't realize one word was cause for a lengthy rebuttal.
If memory serves (it doesn't always), the following processors first appeared in an Apple product ahead of general release or ahead of someone else's products:

1. 3GHz Quad Core Xeon as a CTO option for MacPro.
2. 2.8GHz Mobile Core 2 Duo as a CTO option for the latest iMac.

Two is not necessarily a trend, but it does indicate the possibility of early delivery of Penryn to Apple.

ksz
Sep 18, 2007, 10:06 PM
1 step closer to 1nm
Conventional wisdom is that classical scaling will end with the 11nm technology node for several reasons including (a) quantum interference as gate oxide thickness is reduced [the thickness is about 5 atomic widths today], (b) the expense and complexity of lithography even with advances in high numerical aperture lenses and immersion lithography, (c) greatly increased power density, etc.

Conventional wisdom has been overturned in the past with unconventional thinking and it may yet be possible to extend classical scaling further with the development of new exotic materials. But the real future, however, may be in nano technology fabricated with something other than silicon. That is, the use of silicon-based transistors may be nearing an end.

Multimedia
Sep 18, 2007, 10:08 PM
You'll be waiting quite some time. We are hoping to get Penryn into Mac Pros by November. The laptop chips won't be ready for awhile.Perhaps Quad MBP a year from now.Is this the sort of thing we can expect in the next iMac update, or more of a Mac Pro thing? I'm gonna get an iMac in the next revision, so I'm wondering what major updates are on the horizon.Guessing Spring '08 iMacs & MBPs.Won't be ready for MacWorld 08 either. Maybe 3rd quarter 08? Multimedia will step in and answer this and the iMac question soon.Not sure which question I'm stepping in on. I figure Spring '08 for the above and Quad MBPs a year from now.

Maybe sooner for MacWorld. But no telling what supplies will be like by January. Can only guess - not predict.

commander.data
Sep 18, 2007, 10:13 PM
If memory serves (it doesn't always), the following processors first appeared in an Apple product ahead of general release or ahead of someone else's products:

1. 3GHz Quad Core Xeon as a CTO option for MacPro.
2. 2.8GHz Mobile Core 2 Duo as a CTO option for the latest iMac.

Two is not necessarily a trend, but it does indicate the possibility of early delivery of Penryn to Apple.
It's not like it's a hardship for Intel to give Apple some CPUs first anyways. With Dell no longer being Intel-exclusive, Intel no doubt wants Apple to be their new poster-child, if only to flaunt it in Dell's face. I doubt supplying Apple with chips will make a huge dent in their inventory anyways, even if they are supply constrained at launch. If Intel was nice, possibly an oxymoron, and Jobs wanted to launch Leopard and a Mac Pro refresh simultaneously in late October, Intel may decide to throw him a bone given the timing. (Brings up the question too, when Intel said Nehalem booted on OS X, did they mean Tiger or Leopard?)

EDIT: Again the only quad mobile chip currently on Intel's roadmaps is a quad core Penryn due H2 2008 with a 35W TDP. Given it's looks to be an Extreme Edition part it won't likely be in the MBP. Probably only an iMac option, if the iMacs haven't switched to desktop Penryns by then.

AidenShaw
Sep 18, 2007, 10:34 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; PPC; 240x320))

If memory serves (it doesn't always), the following processors first appeared in an Apple product ahead of general release or ahead of someone else's products:

1. 3GHz Quad Core Xeon as a CTO option for MacPro.
2. 2.8GHz Mobile Core 2 Duo as a CTO option for the latest iMac.

Two is not necessarily a trend, but it does indicate the possibility of early delivery of Penryn to Apple.
It's not like it's a hardship for Intel to give Apple some CPUs first anyways. With Dell no longer being Intel-exclusive, Intel no doubt wants Apple to be their new poster-child, if only to flaunt it in Dell's face. I doubt supplying Apple with chips will make a huge dent in their inventory anyways, even if they are supply constrained at launch. If Intel was nice, possibly an oxymoron, and Jobs wanted to launch Leopard and a Mac Pro refresh simultaneously in late October, Intel may decide to throw him a bone given the timing. (Brings up the question too, when Intel said Nehalem booted on OS X, did they mean Tiger or Leopard?)

EDIT: Again the only quad mobile chip currently on Intel's roadmaps is a quad core Penryn due H2 2008 with a 35W TDP. Given it's looks to be an Extreme Edition part it won't likely be in the MBP. Probably only an iMac option, if the iMacs haven't switched to desktop Penryns by then.

Flaunting something in a customer's face is not a good busines model...

i, Podius
Sep 18, 2007, 10:56 PM
I was lamenting the fact that, disappointed by the latest iMac refresh, my decision to buy a Mac Pro instead meant that I wouldn't be getting Front Row, until I found this (http://twistedmelon.com/mira/hardware.html). Sure, I'd rather not have to pay $32 to get functionality that's available on every other (lower end) Mac on the market, but it's certainly better than nothing. Now all I have to do is wait for the new Pros.

jeremyrader
Sep 18, 2007, 11:56 PM
Someone already jumped on this, but you are most definetly wrong here. Penryn is a 45nm shrink of the Core 2 Duo. It will come in the flavors of Server/Workstation, Desktop and notebook.

Xeon is the first to get this new treatment, along with faster bus and more cache. New chipsets too :)

A quad Macbook pro is a long way off my friend. At least 6 months.

Now, an all octo Mac Pro line. Coming to an Apple Store near you very soon. It is you who are backwards.

Wikipedia and Google are your friend :apple:

There are absolutely no plans for a quad notebook processor from Intel within the next year. The new Penryn processor will be packaged with the current Crestline chipset for the "Santa Rosa Refresh" platform in the 1st half of 2008. When the Cantiga chipset becomes available later in the year, the new platform will be "Montevina". Expect the Penryn mobile processors to move to a 6MB L2 cache around the same time.

There are also no plans for an octo-core chip from Intel over the next year. The closest thing would be a 6-core MP server processor (Dunnington), which a shrink of the current 2/4-core MP server processor (Tigerton). On the DP server side - the dual core Woodcrest gets shrunk to Wolfdale, and the quad core Clovertown gets shrunk to Harpertown.

As for products based on the Nehalem architecture, Intel is being very tight-lipped, even within the company.

MagnusVonMagnum
Sep 19, 2007, 12:38 AM
Seriously?

Is ANYONE besides me getting really tired of this friggin question every time intel farts?

If you want a Macbook / Pro get one. If not, get off the pot! Something tells me you just wanted something to say and arent even in the market for a new machine anyways.
Rant over.

I get more sick of people ranting about other people asking questions. THAT is a TRUE waste of my time. Your rant just says, "I'm a fanboy! Buy Apple now already and then buy some more! Support the fund to make Steve Jobs richer than Billy Gates!"

I'll buy a new Mac when I'm good and ready (i.e. happy with the total feature line-up), not before. Mac Mini and Macbook BADLY need better graphics (Santa Fe would be at lest a REASONABLE offering. Intel GMA 950 is an INSULT in 2007 (almost 2008), IMO). iMac took a step BACKWARDS with this new release (I'd rather have the old 24" with the NVidia card). So instead of winning me over to buying an iMac, they've ensured I will never own one. MacPro, ironically can upgrade to better graphics cards, but none are available and due to Apple's STUPID decision to not offer standard bios on their new machines on the MacOSX side, you CANNOT just go buy a PC card off the shelf as it will only work on the PC side (assuming you're running Windows on it as well via Bootcamp).

I can honestly say that leaves the Macbook Pro as the ONLY machine Apple is currently making that I'm not totally unhappy with some aspect thereof. I would prefer a MacPro + Updated Macbook. I'm hoping they will update both before November. Otherwise, I'm waiting until some time next year when they DO update them. Screw Apple for all I care. I only buy what I want, not what Apple wants me to buy. I could still get a PC instead even, although my hatred of Windows Vista makes that unlikely (Linux is ok, but still lacks commercial software). My plan was to run XP with Fusion and BootCamp when I need it and start moving over to the Mac in a big way (I own a PC and a Mac right now, but the latter is an outdated dual G4 I use mostly for Internet access and disc burning). My Mac software is very limited compared to PC so a PC isn't exactly out of the question as there I CAN get the mid-range mini-tower that many of us would like to see from Apple. Steve needs to learn that by limiting his desktop models to novelty items (yes, the iMac is just a novelty item; a laptop in a monitor, basically... why not just buy a laptop and have true mobility??? Some of us want TRUE desktop parts/speed and we don't think we should have to buy a MacPro just to get it... but that's another issue beyond the limitations of the current models themselves).

diamond.g
Sep 19, 2007, 06:35 AM
I wonder how the QuickPath Interconnect will effect motherboard compatibility.
Should be the same as AMD.
Anandtech
Intel "Harpertown" Xeon vs. AMD "Barcelona" Opteron (http://anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=3099)

Intel Developer Forum 2007 - Day 1: Nehalem, Intel's GPUs, 32nm and More (http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3101)

"Nehalem" Taped-out and Running Windows (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8927)

Inquirer.net
Intel Skulltrail supports SLI, Quad SLI (http://theinquirer.net/?article=42442)

Skulltrail doesn't FASN8, it does obliterate (http://theinquirer.net/?article=42441)

Harpertown benchmarks show a monster in the making (http://theinquirer.net/?article=42423)

Intel shows off two big platforms (http://theinquirer.net/?article=42435)

Behardware.com
Socket B & Bloomfield in 2008 (http://www.behardware.com/news/8644/socket-b-bloomfield-in-2008.html)

Interesting, Skulltrail looks to be the only mobo Intel will offer with SLI. This seems to be due to Nvidia not having a dual processor chipset. Now if Apple does use Skulltrail, then expect Apple to push Nvidia cards as the high end option on the Mac Pros.

I would hold off on getting a new Mac anything if possible till we hear more about these new specs Intel is going to be introducing. PCper has an article (http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=454)talking about USB 3.0 (10x the bandwidth of USB 2.0 :eek:).

netdog
Sep 19, 2007, 06:40 AM
I would hold off on getting a new Mac anything if possible till we hear more about these new specs Intel is going to be introducing. PCper has an article (http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=454)talking about USB 3.0 (10x the bandwidth of USB 2.0 :eek:).

Great, if you want to wait until 2009 or 2010 for USB 3.0 (see article).

jellomizer
Sep 19, 2007, 06:41 AM
Centrino is nothing more than a marketing scheme. It just means intel stuff inside a laptop.

Not to mention that it can be easily confused with celerons. These are the chips with bad cache (sometimes other problems as well) works well enough to run a PC but with with so much broken they normally run poorly and put them in budget PCs. Where people go Well I could get a Mac with a Core 2 Duo at 2.33ghz or I could get a Budget Brand with a Duel Core Celeron with at 2.33ghz and save $300.00, Besides I remember reading about how good these new Intel C somethings are so I think I will save the $300 bucks...

1-2 year down the line the person is buying a new computer because it performs so poorly with modern software and websites, while the person who got the Mac will use it for 2 or 3 more years, because while it may not be as fast with the new stuff it still handles it quite well and it is usable.

diamond.g
Sep 19, 2007, 06:44 AM
Great, if you want to wait until 2009 or 2010 for USB 3.0 (see article).

Hmm, the slide said 1H'08. Well some here have been waiting for almost a year, whats another year? :p EDIT: The slide with that date ('09 '10) is for PCIe 3.0.

jellomizer
Sep 19, 2007, 06:45 AM
Great, if you want to wait until 2009 or 2010 for USB 3.0 (see article).

It is good not to pine over the rumor sites for making a long term buying decision. If you know a new Mac or processor is coming out shortly and it is the difference between getting a new computer now or in 3 months is one thing. But if you need a new computer Now and you are waiting for the next technology that has just been developed you will be waiting a year to years. You are probably better off if you get a computer when you need it, know quite well you system will begin to obsolete within the first year. and will Obsolete exponentially after that.

netdog
Sep 19, 2007, 06:54 AM
Hmm, the slide said 1H'08. Well some here have been waiting for almost a year, whats another year? :p EDIT: The slide with that date ('09 '10) is for PCIe 3.0.

Oops! Different article. The one I read (linked to by some forumite last night) indicated that the standard will be ratified early next year, but we shouldn't expect products to market until 2009 or 2010.

They also pointed that even the fastest flash drives today only run at a top rate of some 800Mb/sec, not that this won't change.

Triplenickle
Sep 19, 2007, 07:04 AM
So will Penryn find it way to the iMac this year?

netdog
Sep 19, 2007, 07:18 AM
So will Penryn find it way to the iMac this year?

No, but it probably will next year.

Thomas2006
Sep 19, 2007, 09:12 AM
this is what i want to know?
im in the market for a mbp next month... but should i wait? and for how long?
I say no later than MWSF2008, but more likely, early December. We might even see Apple's first quad-core notebook.

mashny
Sep 19, 2007, 09:27 AM
So does that mean we'll see a mac pro update before 2008? The Mac Pro hasn't been seriously updated nor a price adjustment since its introduction in AUGUST of 2006. The video cards alone are ~20 months old.

Oh but it doesn't need to be upgraded yet... (for the flame war on that, check the MP/PM forum)

My guess is that if Apple does release an update to the MacPro in the near term, it won't be until Macworld '08. I have an eight-year old G4 400, so I'm very much hoping the new Mac Pros are announced at MWSF.

flopticalcube
Sep 19, 2007, 09:35 AM
I say no later than MWSF2008, but more likely, early December. We might even see Apple's first quad-core notebook.

No we won't. No mobile quad-cores from Intel until mid-2008.

Eidorian
Sep 19, 2007, 10:37 AM
Quad Core Laptop (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=305777)

Mobile Quad Core (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=351838)

http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20070919PD211.htm

MikeTheC
Sep 19, 2007, 10:57 AM
And to think I'm still waiting on a G5 laptop. Oh well, there's always next week. ;)

Seriously, though, I want things to settle down here a bit on the processor roadmap -- as well as the motherboard roadmap -- front before I go plunking down hard cash for anything else. But it all does sound very, very impressive. I'm really looking forward to the future of technology, at least in this respect.

netdog
Sep 19, 2007, 11:09 AM
And to think I'm still waiting on a G5 laptop. Oh well, there's always next week. ;)

Seriously, though, I want things to settle down here a bit on the processor roadmap -- as well as the motherboard roadmap -- front before I go plunking down hard cash for anything else. But it all does sound very, very impressive. I'm really looking forward to the future of technology, at least in this respect.

Those settled days departed with the Gx Power PC architecture. Intel's spec never settles down. They move at a blazing pace, as you are seeing. There will come a point, however, where all the things that we use (video, graphics, sounds, words) are processed so quickly that advances won't make much difference in the home or general (read non-engineering) office. Voice recognition, sight recognition and little tricks like that will burn some CPU cycles, but once USB 3 is in place and chips go far beyond what we mortals can utilize, things might settle down a bit.

Then again, I guess that totally interactive 3-D holographic movie projections will probably take some power. God bless the gamers.

CJD2112
Sep 19, 2007, 11:17 AM
I was lamenting the fact that, disappointed by the latest iMac refresh, my decision to buy a Mac Pro instead meant that I wouldn't be getting Front Row, until I found this (http://twistedmelon.com/mira/hardware.html). Sure, I'd rather not have to pay $32 to get functionality that's available on every other (lower end) Mac on the market, but it's certainly better than nothing. Now all I have to do is wait for the new Pros.

Thanks for the link. I remember reading about that product last year and thought it might be worth getting. I tried to use the IR sensor that came with an iPod dock in the iPod Apple Universal Dock product, but to no avail. It is similar to the product you listed, so I'm surprised Apple hasn't allowed the IR sensor in the dock to enable/utilize Front Row on Mac's that don't have it built in (such as the Mac Pro).

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=F04326F1&nplm=MB125G/A

ktlx
Sep 19, 2007, 11:25 AM
With Dell no longer being Intel-exclusive, Intel no doubt wants Apple to be their new poster-child, if only to flaunt it in Dell's face.
Intel is in business, not high school.

AidenShaw
Sep 19, 2007, 11:31 AM
Originally Posted by MikeTheC
And to think I'm still waiting on a G5 laptop. Oh well, there's always next week.

Seriously, though, I want things to settle down here a bit on the processor roadmap -- as well as the motherboard roadmap -- front before I go plunking down hard cash for anything else.

Those settled days departed with the Gx Power PC architecture. Intel's spec never settles down. They move at a blazing pace, as you are seeing.

Tick. Tock. Tick - shrink. Tock - new architecture.

Here at IDF Intel is talking about systems and chipsets out through 2010. Each year there will either be a shrink to new process (e.g. Penryn this year) or a new architecture (e.g. Nehalem next year).

Nehalem first booted 3 weeks ago - about 2 months before the announcement date for Penryn. Intel is showing wafers with 32nm chips (which will be used for Westmere in 2009).

Yep, the "settled days" are over.... You can count on today's Mac to be out-of-date in a year, and painfully out-of-date in two years. Waiting to buy won't change this - it just means that your current machine will get further and further behind the curve.

Don't stick with your old "obsolete" computer because of fear that your new one will become obsolete. It will happen, accept it.

netdog
Sep 19, 2007, 11:35 AM
I still think that this upcoming Mac Pro is going to be one of the ones to get, even if I do have plans already to add a USB 3.0 via PCI Express.

ktlx
Sep 19, 2007, 11:59 AM
Don't stick with your old "obsolete" computer because of fear that your new one will become obsolete.
Speak for yourself!

I absolutely positively refuse to give up my PowerMac dual 533Mhz G4 until Apple comes out with a sixteen core, 8.9Ghz, 256GB Mac Pro with quad nVidia 17800 Ultra Pro GTX 32 lane PCIe 3.0 video cards. Until that time, I think I can stick with running OS 9 on my G4. I just don't see the current upgrades as that big of an improvement for my needs.

:eek:

EagerDragon
Sep 19, 2007, 12:22 PM
So, how do three people find this negative?

IBM, Microsoft and Sony?

EagerDragon
Sep 19, 2007, 12:29 PM
Those settled days departed with the Gx Power PC architecture. Intel's spec never settles down. They move at a blazing pace, as you are seeing. There will come a point, however, where all the things that we use (video, graphics, sounds, words) are processed so quickly that advances won't make much difference in the home or general (read non-engineering) office. Voice recognition, sight recognition and little tricks like that will burn some CPU cycles, but once USB 3 is in place and chips go far beyond what we mortals can utilize, things might settle down a bit.

Then again, I guess that totally interactive 3-D holographic movie projections will probably take some power. God bless the gamers.

I still think that a direct tap into the brain, offers a better interface and better imaging.

I never heard someone said, "My computer is too fast". Applications and features will always eat up the spare cycles and as we get used to the new power, someone else will write something that needs more power to run smootly.

Besides it takes time for software to be developed for the new hardware, so rarely do you see the absolute advantage / features of the new hardware.

netdog
Sep 19, 2007, 01:10 PM
I still think that a direct tap into the brain, offers a better interface and better imaging.

I never heard someone said, "My computer is too fast". Applications and features will always eat up the spare cycles and as we get used to the new power, someone else will write something that needs more power to run smootly.

Besides it takes time for software to be developed for the new hardware, so rarely do you see the absolute advantage / features of the new hardware.

I know. I am just marvelling at how fast Penryn and then Nehalem Mac Pros are going to be.

diamond.g
Sep 19, 2007, 01:47 PM
Tick. Tock. Tick - shrink. Tock - new architecture.

Here at IDF Intel is talking about systems and chipsets out through 2010. Each year there will either be a shrink to new process (e.g. Penryn this year) or a new architecture (e.g. Nehalem next year).

Nehalem first booted 3 weeks ago - about 2 months before the announcement date for Penryn. Intel is showing wafers with 32nm chips (which will be used for Westmere in 2009).

Yep, the "settled days" are over.... You can count on today's Mac to be out-of-date in a year, and painfully out-of-date in two years. Waiting to buy won't change this - it just means that your current machine will get further and further behind the curve.

Don't stick with your old "obsolete" computer because of fear that your new one will become obsolete. It will happen, accept it.

Intel has complete platform changes every 18-36 months or so. I would stick to refreshes though, as the new platforms can sometimes be buggy.

MikeTheC
Sep 19, 2007, 01:47 PM
netdog, AidenShaw and ktlx:

I think you may have misinterpreted, in different ways, what I said and what was offered after it.

With each category of processor that Intel -- or anyone else -- puts out, there is a roadmap for it. The roadmap helps to ensure forward-looking compatibility, and also helps them to plan out what changes there will be, generationally, in each incremental step on that roadmap. That's the "stability" I'm talking about. Nothing in the computer world is static any longer, and hasn't been static to any great degree going back as far as I can remember. The only thing that's changed is the rate of change has increased, but there's always been change.

I'm interested in making sure I don't jump into a CPU and/or motherboard roadmap until it's far along enough to ensure some degree of maturity (that is, viability, efficiency, value for money, stability... all that good stuff.)

This is part of the reason you don't see me on this message board complaining and whining about how my purchase was just obsolesced or how it's a pile of junk because of a whole bunch of bugs that are yet to be fixed. I buy into mature technology, not the bleeding edge stuff. But at the same time, please don't try and accuse me of log-daming the river (so to speak), because that isn't true, and never has been.

As it is, there is a serious debate going on in my head whether or not to even continue with the Mac OS X platform, when clearly the GNU/Linux platform offers nearly all the same benefits which are of relevance to me, and in fact usually is quite ahead of Apple (to say nothing of Microsoft, but that's another story and probably a lost cause anyhow) in terms of the adoption -- and therefore the perfection -- of various technologies, or the improvements of the underpinnings in how given categories of technology are implemented.

Clearly, the next computer I buy will be x86-based, no matter what I do. Equally clearly, it will open the door to various possibilities, none of which I'm about to shut the door in the face of. However, and again I can't stress this enough, they will be stable and mature by the time I choose to adopt them, whether it's Leopard or Linux.

I still stand by my earlier comment that these are good technological times, and I look forward to what Silicon Valley is and will be cooking up.

mashny
Sep 19, 2007, 01:48 PM
I know. I am just marvelling at how fast Penryn and then Nehalem Mac Pros are going to be.

And in twenty years we'll marvel that we ever used anything as slow and primitive as a Penryn or Nehalem.

But, yeah, I'm looking forward to buying a Penryn Mac Pro.

diamond.g
Sep 19, 2007, 01:53 PM
Benchmark (http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=9884) of Harpertown. :D It is faaaaaast!!

AidenShaw
Sep 19, 2007, 02:08 PM
Intel has complete platform changes every 18-36 months or so. I would stick to refreshes though, as the new platforms can sometimes be buggy.

Ummm, Penryn will be the first refresh since Apple went to Intel - all the current CPUs are new architectures.

(One might argue that Yonah was a refresh, but a pretty dramatic "refresh" since the Dothan was single core.)

Eidorian
Sep 19, 2007, 02:56 PM
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3144&Itemid=51

I expected such from Nehalam.

flopticalcube
Sep 19, 2007, 03:06 PM
Its a shame things are changing so fast with regard to CPU interoperability. I don't remember sockets and chipsets changing so fast in the last 10 years. It used to be that you could buy a mobo and be assured that in 2 years a new CPU with a new architecture or fabrication technology would be available to plop right in. Not any more. It now looks like a 12 or 18 month upgrade cycle. Socket M is now end-of-line. Socket P (Santa Rosa) will be in Q2 08 after less than 12 months. Wow!

Eidorian
Sep 19, 2007, 03:07 PM
Its a shame things are changing so fast with regard to CPU interoperability. I don't remember sockets and chipsets changing so fast in the last 10 years. It used to be that you could buy a mobo and be assured that in 2 years a new CPU with a new architecture or fabrication technology would be available to plop right in. Not any more. It now looks like a 12 or 18 month upgrade cycle. Socket M is now end-of-line. Socket P (Santa Rosa) will be in Q2 08 after less than 12 months. Wow!The chipset and VRM appear to have the biggest impact. Intel wants to push more power efficient chips and now an entirely different bus system.

Super Socket 7, Socket 370, or Socket A anyone?

Don't forget 440BX, 865G, 965P, or nForce 4.

SPUY767
Sep 19, 2007, 04:13 PM
oh god not hyperthreading again, tried and faild technology

HT only failed, because at the time, the netburst architecture was crap, and they were running the wrong OS on most of the chips. A linux box was able to gain a real performance boost from HT.

SPUY767
Sep 19, 2007, 04:15 PM
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3144&Itemid=51

I expected such from Nehalam.

It's just like the fact that the first 775 MBs, the ones that were designed for the last of the Pentium D series, wouldn't run core chips when they came out, this is nothing new.

SPUY767
Sep 19, 2007, 04:19 PM
Intel is in business, not high school.

True, but, Intel likes that Apple releases very high performance machines. Also, it allows Intel to roll out new chips faster, as they can put them in the high end Macs while yields are still low. Dell is too busy trying to convince grandmothers that they need a QX so that they can make a higher margin. So before they can produce numbers necessary for a wide rollout of a new chip, Intel is giving them to Apple. Intel knows, Apple may not sell the most PCs, but for each computer produced, Apple gets loads more attention.

diamond.g
Sep 19, 2007, 05:52 PM
The chipset and VRM appear to have the biggest impact. Intel wants to push more power efficient chips and now an entirely different bus system.

Super Socket 7, Socket 370, or Socket A anyone?

Don't forget 440BX, 865G, 965P, or nForce 4.

AMD:

Socket 7 -> Super Socket 7 -> Slot A -> Socket A (462) -> Socket 754/940 -> Socket 939/940 -> Socket AM2 -> Socket AM3

Intel:

Socket 7 -> Super Socket 7 -> Slot 1 -> Socket 370 -> Socket 423 -> Socket 478 -> LGA775 (Socket T)

Chipsets are a whole can of worms. Although I'll say AMD hasn't really made there own chipset till the purchased ATI. I woud say Nvidia has always made the best chipsets for AMD. Intel has pretty much always made the best chipset for their own platform (I dunno how the nvidia chipset fares with Intel).

Overall the pin count really hasn't changed a whole lot. The real issue can be electrical differences. Once Nelahem has been released then you will have to worry about memory technologies changing. Which is why AMD went to the AM2, it is the same pin count as the 940, but it is electrically different.

suneohair
Sep 19, 2007, 06:23 PM
There are absolutely no plans for a quad notebook processor from Intel within the next year. The new Penryn processor will be packaged with the current Crestline chipset for the "Santa Rosa Refresh" platform in the 1st half of 2008. When the Cantiga chipset becomes available later in the year, the new platform will be "Montevina". Expect the Penryn mobile processors to move to a 6MB L2 cache around the same time.

There are also no plans for an octo-core chip from Intel over the next year. The closest thing would be a 6-core MP server processor (Dunnington), which a shrink of the current 2/4-core MP server processor (Tigerton). On the DP server side - the dual core Woodcrest gets shrunk to Wolfdale, and the quad core Clovertown gets shrunk to Harpertown.

As for products based on the Nehalem architecture, Intel is being very tight-lipped, even within the company.

Intels plans seem to change monthly. I was saying it would be at least 6 months off if anything happened. That was an error on my part I should have stuck with long way off :D

I don't know where the octo-core chip came from. I was saying an octo Mac Pro, or in effect dual quad core Harpertowns are hardly a year off as the OP was stating.

Thanks for lesson on Intel architecture anyway. I had no idea, really. :rolleyes:

merman637
Sep 20, 2007, 08:34 AM
I get more sick of people ranting about other people asking questions. THAT is a TRUE waste of my time. Your rant just says, "I'm a fanboy! Buy Apple now already and then buy some more! Support the fund to make Steve Jobs richer than Billy Gates!"

I'll buy a new Mac when I'm good and ready (i.e. happy with the total feature line-up), not before. Mac Mini and Macbook BADLY need better graphics (Santa Fe would be at lest a REASONABLE offering. Intel GMA 950 is an INSULT in 2007 (almost 2008), IMO). iMac took a step BACKWARDS with this new release (I'd rather have the old 24" with the NVidia card). So instead of winning me over to buying an iMac, they've ensured I will never own one. MacPro, ironically can upgrade to better graphics cards, but none are available and due to Apple's STUPID decision to not offer standard bios on their new machines on the MacOSX side, you CANNOT just go buy a PC card off the shelf as it will only work on the PC side (assuming you're running Windows on it as well via Bootcamp).

I can honestly say that leaves the Macbook Pro as the ONLY machine Apple is currently making that I'm not totally unhappy with some aspect thereof. I would prefer a MacPro + Updated Macbook. I'm hoping they will update both before November. Otherwise, I'm waiting until some time next year when they DO update them. Screw Apple for all I care. I only buy what I want, not what Apple wants me to buy. I could still get a PC instead even, although my hatred of Windows Vista makes that unlikely (Linux is ok, but still lacks commercial software). My plan was to run XP with Fusion and BootCamp when I need it and start moving over to the Mac in a big way (I own a PC and a Mac right now, but the latter is an outdated dual G4 I use mostly for Internet access and disc burning). My Mac software is very limited compared to PC so a PC isn't exactly out of the question as there I CAN get the mid-range mini-tower that many of us would like to see from Apple. Steve needs to learn that by limiting his desktop models to novelty items (yes, the iMac is just a novelty item; a laptop in a monitor, basically... why not just buy a laptop and have true mobility??? Some of us want TRUE desktop parts/speed and we don't think we should have to buy a MacPro just to get it... but that's another issue beyond the limitations of the current models themselves).

You DO understand that technology is always upgrading and if you wait until the next thing coming you'll never have anything good now right?

If you don't like what mac is offering, get something else.

So basically, you want a laptop, a mid range price, and Desktop grade upgradeability, all rolled into one?
Why not buy a laptop? Well let's see, price for one, screen size (a 24" laptop would be a bit much i think), power/hd size (250-500GB hard drive anyone?)
A tower? Mac Pro...$2200. Upgrade to your hearts desire. Think it's to much? get a dell...hopefully by the time it reaches your doorstep it will still turn on, and then maybe it will work for a few months. Also hopefully it won't have issues with all the drivers, hardware compatibility. Then you are stuck with xp or worse, Vista.

If you don't like what sony offers move on.
If you don't like what apple offers move on.
etc...

Wow. What a PC mentality. All I was saying is if you need a computer now, get one. If not, Don't.

My rant was about the mindless question..."is it worth it to wait until xxxx?"
Worth it how? For who?

Thats seems like a pretty clueless question with no REAL answer. So why ask?
Maybe to convince your self that you are ACTUALLY going to get a new computer someday? Just not today.
Or maybe just becuase you (the poster) had no real contirbution to the subject. Who knows. It just gets tiring, that's all.



P.S. Sorry for the randomness of this post. There is so much to complain about it seems.

merman637
Sep 20, 2007, 08:37 AM
It is good not to pine over the rumor sites for making a long term buying decision. If you know a new Mac or processor is coming out shortly and it is the difference between getting a new computer now or in 3 months is one thing. But if you need a new computer Now and you are waiting for the next technology that has just been developed you will be waiting a year to years. You are probably better off if you get a computer when you need it, know quite well you system will begin to obsolete within the first year. and will Obsolete exponentially after that.


Very intelligent post my friend.

kudos.

merman637
Sep 24, 2007, 11:45 AM
one last thing, this post was about intel processors.
this post was not about:macbooks, macbook pros and why they need gpu upgrades, or when you need to buy a new computer...
Guaranteed...when the next post comes out about a new intel processor, within the top 5 posts someone will ask...is it worth it to buy one now, or should I wait until...