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Stojamow
Sep 16, 2003, 06:46 AM
Because of the upgrade they provided to us I am not going to switch. I need my laptop now - not next year

= I just posted my order to Dell (M60 Notebook)

It is very impressive piece of technology

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2003/09_sep/reviews/cw_dellm60.htm

and please note that the MAC has a G4 1.25ghzDUAL prosessor and it is still left heavily behind

I feel a bit sorry because I like the design but I cannot do compromises with the performance.

:(

DakotaGuy
Sep 16, 2003, 07:08 AM
Bye and good luck with the Dell. I don't know what you are talking about as far as the Dual 1.25 G4 is concerned that is a tower. If you are trying to say that your Dell laptop will have a 1.25Ghz Dual G4 tower for lunch, then I think you are kidding yourself. They can show every benchmark they want, but everything I have seen lately coming out of the G5 benchmarks that include G4 counterparts, the Duals always have singles for lunch, especially the more apps. you open and run at the same time. The new Powerbooks will be very nice laptops. Well have fun with your plastic Dell with Windoze.

irmongoose
Sep 16, 2003, 07:08 AM
Great! I won't be sorry to see you go, but good luck none the less!



irmongoose

mnkeybsness
Sep 16, 2003, 07:38 AM
After Effects IS SLOW on the mac...there's just no question about it. i've worked with it a little on both windows and mac os x, and the windows machine crushed the mac. that's just life...and they are only computers...

i really get annoyed of people who have to tell everyone that they will not switch because apple just "did not perform"...eg did not release an incredibly amazing 10 years ahead of it's time machine.

iGav
Sep 16, 2003, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by mnkeybsness
After Effects IS SLOW on the mac...there's just no question about it.

On Dual machines, you can pull a little trick with After Effects and the After Effects Render engine... for a serious performance (2x) speed increase.. ;)

johnnowak
Sep 16, 2003, 08:08 AM
Its just another fool who capitalizes MAC... why do you even post a reply.

irmongoose
Sep 16, 2003, 08:12 AM
I'm sorry, I have to interrupt. It's a Mac, short for Macintosh. The Mac, or a Mac. It doesn't stand for anything, and therefore should not be all capitalized as MAC.

Sorry, it's a little pet peeve of mine...



irmongoose

Powerbook G5
Sep 16, 2003, 08:16 AM
I think these new PowerBooks are sweet! If he seriously rather have a Dell running XP, than any of these PowerBooks, then he wasn't seriously that into switching in the first place. Man, if my dad made me get a Dell, even if it were a 3 GHz top of the line everything, I'd still feel like dropping it over the bridge and going back to my 400 MHz G3. Being a Mac user is just so much nicer of an experience. I get more done, I enjoy the time I am using it, and it just works the exact way I want it to.

Tiauguinho
Sep 16, 2003, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by irmongoose
I'm sorry, I have to interrupt. It's a Mac, short for Macintosh. The Mac, or a Mac. It doesn't stand for anything, and therefore should not be all capitalized as MAC.

Sorry, it's a little pet peeve of mine...



irmongoose

WTF are you talking about? Johnnowak as exactly saying that. Please read his post before you quote and correct him. Stojamow was the one who made the mistake.

jelloshotsrule
Sep 16, 2003, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by iGAV
On Dual machines, you can pull a little trick with After Effects and the After Effects Render engine... for a serious performance (2x) speed increase.. ;)

do tell. mr combustion. ;)

irmongoose
Sep 16, 2003, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Tiauguinho
WTF are you talking about? Johnnowak as exactly saying that. Please read his post before you quote and correct him. Stojamow was the one who made the mistake.

Whoops, sorry, I quoted the wrong post!



irmongoose

Schiffi
Sep 16, 2003, 09:00 AM
I'm willing to bet that he'll get the So.Big when he first gets online.

KBFinFan
Sep 16, 2003, 09:10 AM
For every one nay-sayer there is at least one person like me.. happy with the updates and eager to switch to the finest computing platform.


He's just jealous..;)

hvfsl
Sep 16, 2003, 09:13 AM
I saw the Dell he was talking about and it is alot faster than the new PowerBooks (1.25 and 1.33Ghz), but it also costs $4500 for the high end version. Although if you want to play games, the Powerbooks are actually faster because they have better V card.

Powerbook G5
Sep 16, 2003, 09:16 AM
Dude, I look at it this way...the new PowerBooks can run OS X faster than any PC. I'm happy with the updates. Enough said.

Horrortaxi
Sep 16, 2003, 09:17 AM
Funny how whenever Apple updates its product line you get a lot of trolls coming out of the woodwork saying "not good/fast enough, I'm getting a Dell". It happens every time and it's never longtime Mac users jumping ship--always newbies with 1-2 posts. We get 2-4 hours to enjoy the thought of the new product before the troll patrol comes along.

We all know this, but the troll patrol is painfully ignorant anyway. Let me check my laptop again for those 1.25 processors.

748s
Sep 16, 2003, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by Stojamow
http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2003/09_sep/reviews/cw_dellm60.htm
:( [/B]

buying a dell because of a review by charlie white. good luck.

rueyeet
Sep 16, 2003, 09:19 AM
My work could pay me to use XP, I guess (thankfully they're sticking to 2K) but there's no way I'd run it at home. I've done enough futzing with my housemate's Dell to know that all the things that annoyed me about Windows from 95 on up are even more apparent in XP.

Really, I don't care what the specs on Wintels are anymore, or what the Macs look like. I'd just rather be running OS X than any version of Windows, and I'd rather run any other version of Windows than XP.....well, except maybe Windows ME. :D

Powerbook G5
Sep 16, 2003, 09:36 AM
ME was bad...even for Microsoft's standards.

johnnowak
Sep 16, 2003, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by irmongoose
I'm sorry, I have to interrupt. It's a Mac, short for Macintosh. The Mac, or a Mac. It doesn't stand for anything, and therefore should not be all capitalized as MAC.

Sorry, it's a little pet peeve of mine...



irmongoose

Lord almighty.

jxyama
Sep 16, 2003, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by Stojamow
Because of the upgrade they provided to us I am not going to switch. I need my laptop now - not next year

= I just posted my order to Dell (M60 Notebook)

It is very impressive piece of technology

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2003/09_sep/reviews/cw_dellm60.htm

and please note that the MAC has a G4 1.25ghzDUAL prosessor and it is still left heavily behind

I feel a bit sorry because I like the design but I cannot do compromises with the performance.

:(

i can't help but respond to this non-sense... if what you got is better than dual g4 1.25, then you weren't obviously waiting for a PB upgrade... did you really expect a PB upgrade that's faster than dual g4 1.25??

troll...

patrick0brien
Sep 16, 2003, 10:12 AM
-Yes, classic troll

Question though: What the Hell does he need performance for? We're at a point where it's not really mattering anymore - even for games (well at this detail level).

If performance is really that big a need, a laptop is not the best choice.

Kid Red
Sep 16, 2003, 10:16 AM
What would you expect from PC trolls? Intelligence?

agreenster
Sep 16, 2003, 10:28 AM
Read the article--the laptop was almost $5,000, and its specs werent much better than the new PowerBooks (if they even were, but Im too lazy to check).

FlamDrag
Sep 16, 2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-Yes, classic troll

Question though: What the Hell does he need performance for? We're at a point where it's not really mattering anymore - even for games (well at this detail level).

If performance is really that big a need, a laptop is not the best choice.

I'm sorry, but this simply doesn't make any sense at all.

iGav
Sep 16, 2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
do tell. mr combustion. ;)

Your wish is my...

http://www.digitalpostproduction.com/2003/04_apr/tutorials/aerender030408.htm

;)

etoiles
Sep 16, 2003, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by agreenster
Read the article--the laptop was almost $5,000, and its specs werent much better than the new PowerBooks (if they even were, but Im too lazy to check).

128MB NVIDIA Quadro FX Go700 graphics accelerator !

The Dell D50/D60 is one of the few 'serious' mobile 3D workstations out there. Quadro's are supposedly the best cards for 3D apps (speed AND stability), especially due to drivers that have been optimized for specific programs. They are not aimed at gaming, but they probably still kick any graphic card currently available for the Mac.

It is expensive, but I guess it must be worth it to some graphic pros on the go.

(not me)
;)

Kwyjibo
Sep 16, 2003, 11:24 AM
I don't agree that its time to abandon the mac or anything like that but I do agree these are lackluster updates at best considering the timeframe. I already own a powerbook but its still nice to seem them progress and tempt me at a quick pace. Ok, we all know the 15" powerbook is approaching a year since it was upgraded (10months i think) and .25 ghz gain over ten months is not really impressive....I like the new feature sets and the new bluetooth acceosries but the pb updates did not impress me. If they were at WWDC or JulyExpo, they would have been much better, in terms of timeline. My only silver lining is that these are more of a pacifier like the dual 1.42 pmac

patrick0brien
Sep 16, 2003, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by etoiles
128MB NVIDIA Quadro FX Go700 graphics accelerator !

The Dell D50/D60 is one of the few 'serious' mobile 3D workstations out there. Quadro's are supposedly the best cards for 3D apps (speed AND stability), especially due to drivers that have been optimized for specific programs. They are not aimed at gaming, but they probably still kick any graphic card currently available for the Mac.

It is expensive, but I guess it must be worth it to some graphic pros on the go.

(not me)
;)

-etoiles

Yes, that's the killer card that we Mac 3D creators have been waiting for. But (to FlamDrag as well) just don't understand why it's in a laptop. If one is rendering a project that requires such a card, one will usually be plugged in to a farm and immobile while rendering anyway - thus defeating the point of a laptop.

Sure, create your models and scene on a laptop - that makes sense, the offload it to a desktop farm master, get it going, and take you laptop to lunch.

Clearly there is an apparent market need for such a machine, but I, for one, haven't seen it.

legion
Sep 16, 2003, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-etoiles

Yes, that's the killer card that we Mac 3D creators have been waiting for. But (to FlamDrag as well) just don't understand why it's in a laptop. If one is rendering a project that requires such a card, one will usually be plugged in to a farm and immobile while rendering anyway - thus defeating the point of a laptop.

Sure, create your models and scene on a laptop - that makes sense, the offload it to a desktop farm master, get it going, and take you laptop to lunch.

Clearly there is an apparent market need for such a machine, but I, for one, haven't seen it.

Need:
Architects on-site.

Designers (especially modeling) for industrial design for client needs.

Studio to studio portability (just going from around Los Angeles' studios to going to ILM or overseas production units and back for a single production you'd need that kind of power in a portable.)

The question is never "why do you need that kind of power?" but "when will you need that kind of mobile power?" because eventually that too will be the norm. (and you also have to be careful to not become part of the urban legend around Bill Gates and his infamous statement about RAM needs :) )

patrick0brien
Sep 16, 2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by legion
Need:
Architects on-site.

Designers (especially modeling) for industrial design for client needs.

Studio to studio portability (just going from around Los Angeles' studios to going to ILM or overseas production units and back for a single production you'd need that kind of power in a portable.)

The question is never "why do you need that kind of power?" but "when will you need that kind of mobile power?" because eventually that too will be the norm. (and you also have to be careful to not become part of the urban legend around Bill Gates and his infamous statement about RAM needs :) )

-legion

Very good, valid, points. And true, it's difficult to walk that line between luddism and overkill. I have to question his motives for such a machine however, I feel our hosting troll was in the camp of the latter - otherwise, I don't believe he'd be swinging such a verbal bigger-D**k stick around here.

eclipse525
Sep 16, 2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by irmongoose
I'm sorry, I have to interrupt. It's a Mac, short for Macintosh. The Mac, or a Mac. It doesn't stand for anything, and therefore should not be all capitalized as MAC.

Sorry, it's a little pet peeve of mine...



irmongoose

Isn't MAC a cosmetic line? :eek:



~e

patrick0brien
Sep 16, 2003, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by eclipse525
Isn't MAC a cosmetic line? :eek:

-eclipse525

And a networking component. MAC address.

SumDumGuy
Sep 16, 2003, 02:50 PM
The After Effects trick mentioned earlier is also discussed HERE (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27783)

Powerbook G5
Sep 16, 2003, 03:04 PM
Well I am quite happy with Apple. Today I just ordered myself a brand spanking new 15" PowerBook! It is:

15.2" Aluminum PowerBook G4
1.25 GHz w/512k L2 cache
512 meg RAM 1 module version (for future Crucial upgrade)
80 gig HD@5400 RPM!
all the usual stuff kept stock
.Mac promotion at $69

Grand total of $2700! My God, this beast is a lot cheaper than my PowerBook G3 was when I bought it in 1999! I'm so excited! So I will be saying "thanks, Apple" too, but only in the best way possible.

fjs08
Sep 16, 2003, 03:10 PM
I've had 2 Compaq notebooks, 2 thinkpads and 1 Dell Notebook. Just got my Powerbook in July and I'm so happy I'm giddy over it. Speedy, responsive, efficient, loads of fun to use, loads of software. I do use VPC 6.1 w Win 2000 for one program only, but will NEVER go back to PC's again. NEVER!!! You couldn't pry this little machine from my hands!!! But good luck with the Dell.

Frank

shadowfax
Sep 16, 2003, 03:18 PM
"pocket rocket" my ass. Dell doesn't make pocket rockets. that thing is massive. i'd rather carry a G4 powermac MDD around.

those benchmarks aren't comprehensive in the least. plus he spec'd the M60 out with 2 GB of RAM. why not give the g4 and the other two the same? this is pretty crappy reviewing.

markiv810
Sep 16, 2003, 03:25 PM
Where is that switcher who started the thread. It's about time PC users stopped posting on mac forums, inferiority complex is a real drag.

Powerbook G5
Sep 16, 2003, 03:27 PM
It makes me feel better, though. Just reminds me how glad I am to be waiting for my PowerBook and not a Dell *shudders*

cb911
Sep 16, 2003, 03:53 PM
hey Stojamow, have you tried out a new PowerBook in a store yet? the 7457 were said to have up to a 40% performance increase over the old 7455.

i don't know how you could saw something's no good without even using it yet...:rolleyes:

Kiwi-Todd
Sep 16, 2003, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by Stojamow
Because of the upgrade they provided to us I am not going to switch. I need my laptop now - not next year

= I just posted my order to Dell (M60 Notebook)

:(

Well bye bye.... I am a full time video pro and I measure performance and speed over the course of a day not in sporadic spurts.

What does this mean? -

I will usually go for up to three days of editing on my 17"PB and FCP without ever needing to close even the program.

I literally pulled my PB out of the box, installed FCP and was capturing in less than one hour.

I can truly multitask - run my business while editing, rendering or encoding.

I know there are faster PCs out there but I just don't care a hoot as every pro-sumer Wintel box I have edited on has been a nightmare to use!

Good luck to you in Dell Hell - keep us posted!!

electric
Sep 16, 2003, 04:21 PM
Later.... dude

solvs
Sep 16, 2003, 05:05 PM
I'm forced to use a WinXP Multi-GHz P4 at work, and I gotta tell you... it ain't that fast.

The 12" G4 is looking really good to me, at edu. discount.

ColoJohnBoy
Sep 16, 2003, 06:01 PM
Hey, if it fits your need, it fits your needs. No reason to go bashing or unsulting anybody on either side. The Dell really is an impressive machine, but I prefer OSX, Final Cut, and the low weight/thickness of the PowerBook. Good luck with the Dell!

fred_garvin
Sep 16, 2003, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by eclipse525
Isn't MAC a cosmetic line? :eek:



~e

Was at the Glendale, CA Apple store, and directly across the hallway in the mall was a M.A.C. cosmetic store. I wonder if they planned that somehow?

tomf87
Sep 16, 2003, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by Kwyjibo
... Ok, we all know the 15" powerbook is approaching a year since it was upgraded (10months i think) and .25 ghz gain over ten months is not really impressive....I like the new feature sets and the new bluetooth acceosries but the pb updates did not impress me. If they were at WWDC or JulyExpo, they would have been much better, in terms of timeline. My only silver lining is that these are more of a pacifier like the dual 1.42 pmac

Well, updating it to AirPort Extreme and Ultra ATA/100 are significant, as well as the DDR RAM and the increase in the max RAM. I think overall there are many new features that justify the wait. Also, I don't believe that churning out two G5 products in this close of a span was really all that possible. Getting the G5 out the QA door was impressive enough, especially since Apple and AMD are the only players in the 64-bit desktop market. Even still, Apple was the first there, and AMD is soon to follow on its heels.

I guess this goes back the Mhz (now Ghz?) myth. We can't just look at the processor and say "That's not that big of a gain in performance." I would really like to see a performance test against the now "old" PB 15" 1Ghz and the "new" PG 15" 1Ghz just to see how the other features help out. This would eliminate the processor at least.

Powerbook G5
Sep 16, 2003, 09:08 PM
I am willing to stake a bet that the new one will edge the old one pretty easily. Everyone says the L3 in the old one makes it better, but since the new G4 has quite a few internal tweaks, double the higher speed L2 cache, faster HD, and a much faster video card, it should definitely give some good speed increases. I ordered the 1.25 GHz with the 5400 RPM HD, so I am hoping for a little more being squeezed from that, too. Factor in FW 800, USB 2.0, APE, built in BT, a Superdrive twice as fast, and you have a pretty nifty overall jump in specs all down the entire feature list. I know I'm happy, this is definitely a jump up from my G3.

eclipse525
Sep 16, 2003, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by fred_garvin
Was at the Glendale, CA Apple store, and directly across the hallway in the mall was a M.A.C. cosmetic store. I wonder if they planned that somehow?

Hmmm...Interesting. Very cleaver. They should a promo together. Like they did with VW. Except you can do it like a George Michael video(freedom) HOT supermodels. Whether it makes sense or not, it'll be great eye candy. ;)


~e

Powerbook G5
Sep 16, 2003, 10:44 PM
The Apple Store at the mall near my house is in a prime location. It's facing you as you walk into the entrance past Ruby Tuesdays. It's got it's own big area with lots of space around it to give a very nice perception of clean, free standing eloquence. Not only, that, but the kid's play area is just down stairs from it so the kids can easily play while the parents can play in the store :D

revenuee
Sep 16, 2003, 11:48 PM
we'll see how much "performance" he gets out of that machine when he's restarting it every hour.

even if those benchmark results are true, your running it on a system that's most popular keyboard shortcut is "ctrl + alt + del"

not to mention that the computer comes from a company that has "award winning technical support"

has anyone heard Apple brag about how good its tech support is? No.
Why? because no one ever needs to call it, our computers just work.

- all you people out there who are satisfied with the apple updates, and HAVE decided to switch, welcome to ourside; you can finally start trusting your computer-

Powerbook G5
Sep 16, 2003, 11:53 PM
I also found that amusing when my dad bragged about how great Dell's tech support is. All I could think was "and why is that a good thing that you'd have to be excited over the tech support and accept it will be a well used feature". When I had my Gateway, I called support so often I knew the number by heart and even knew the names of various techies by their voices...sad. With Apple, I lost the Applecare card I got a few years ago and never once had to call them in that time, so I can't even say how good they are currently. I personally like that feeling. "Oh, we have tech support? Huh...since when?"

Stojamow
Sep 17, 2003, 05:38 AM
First, I am sorry that I made my frustration public here. Sometimes you just do something without a clear point. You have to understand that I was falling in love with a PB but it did not was what I expected.

It seems to me that you are considering me as a troll. A typical “PC’s are better guy”.

1)Somebody wrote that because I do not switch after the release of G4 1.25Ghz PB I was not seriously thinking of it. HMM… Do you buy a product just because the person who sells it says it is better than the others ?!? I did my research. I discussed with the people who are using both of the systems and asked how do they liked the system they used. I searched the web. I also borrowed an iMac from my friend for few days to give it a try. Very nice machine & nice programs but in my case it do not satisfy my needs.

2)Somebody wrote that Mac had half the memory… but did you notice that Dell had half the processors ? Did you also noticed that Mac was left behind by Dell’s single processor work station with half the memory of Mac as well ?

3)Somebody wrote that I do have to reboot my computer every hour. Well, I have been using PC’s for 6 years now and there have not been a need to reboot my machine as you seem to think. Both systems (PC & Mac) can be a nightmare. It is up the user – not the computer.

4)Somebody wrote that After Effects runs slowlier in a Mac than in a PC ! Great! That’s what the link tells you…. And please note that Charlie White do write that the performance of these systems when the application is running is very clear. He do not say that the overall performance of Mac is poor but he does say that the performance of Mac when running AE (& assumed that when editing digital video) is not very good compared to PC.

5)Did anybody asked that do I need to run that very program (AE) ?

6)Somebody wrote that why not a desktop – sometimes you need to carry your computer with you all the time and a desktop is very difficult to lug around all the time.

7)The funny thing is that Adobe, Avid, Barefeats & many more say that G4 is not as good as P4… actually the only company telling that G4 is faster is Apple as far as I know… How many people have wrote in this forum that do not trust to the manufacturers data when PC’s have seemed to be better. What makes the difference with Apple ?

I also want acknowledge you that if I would like to buy a desktop it would be a G5 Dual 2ghz at the moment. Unfortunately a desktop does not meet my needs.

If you really think that I should buy a Mac (PB G4 1,25Ghz) please point it out with reasonable arguments because there is still the possibility to cancel my order.

cb911
Sep 17, 2003, 08:00 AM
huh, you haven't cancelled your order yet? well that's good news...

the best thing that i can probably say to you is not to get too worried about the specs etc. you've been using a PC for the past 6 years, right? so you're familiar with whatever programs you use on PC, so go to an Apple Store and try out the same programs on a 1.25GHz PowerBook. specs don't mean anything, it's really about how it performs on a day to day basis.

and you're not just buying a 1.25GHz PowerPC processor with 80GB HD, DDR 333 RAM, etc. you're buying a Mac, and OS X (sort of) after using OS X for a bit over a year i can say i would never go back to Windows if i had the choice. OS X is just so much nicer to work with, and i've found that alot of the powerful features are available to the average user, more so than on Windows, and at the same time being simpler.

but a Mac might not be for you, but just go and try on the PowerBook the programs you use on a day to day basis, and see how it goes.

Stojamow
Sep 17, 2003, 08:17 AM
To help you doing so...

I am going to run the following software in my computer

Avid Express Pro
After Effects

As an independent filmmaker this will be the only computer used to edit. It has to be laptop because I have to be able to take my work to clients etc.

Please do not make this Avid vs FCP conversation. The reason I chose Avid is that I do a lot of co-operation with national broadcasting channel which have Avids. Having an Avid by myself is easier for the workflow etc.

I CAN ALSO GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO START WITH:

I have heard / read the following

-AVID CODEC works with absolutely no problems in Mac while it might face problems with Windows because Microsoft's own codec is not willing to give any room for Avid.

-If you do video editing you should check out 17" PB which now have G4 1.33Ghz which means 33% speed increase on the paper.

-Because this is the only workstation you have ..... you should take a closer look to this 17" PB because of the screen. More room for the avid windows....... and please note that the 17" PC laptops are not really carryable at the moment (as big they are)

-If you have an Avid Express Pro you can connect AVID MOJO accelerator to your computer which means that while doing documentary style editing there is no more issues like rendering speeds etc.

-Did you know that any G4 processor is capable to do DV editing with Express DV 3.5 software according to Avid. We can easily assume that the issue is the same with the Pro as long as you do not go SD.

-DUAL 1 Ghz Powermac was able to perform 8 layers of video with FCP3 when tested by Computer Video Magazine. This means that the computer should be fast enough for you.

-You can run 2 displays with your PB which means that if you need an extra screen you can plug in a Cinema HD display.

ETC.


HA .... now I am recommending a Mac over the PC according to those lines above this

Stojamow
Sep 17, 2003, 08:30 AM
To cb911:

You're right when saying that until I declare the final judgement I should give it a try with the programs I use in daily basis.


He uses Powerbook with Avid :D

http://www.avid.com/profiles/030509_cnn_xdv.asp?featureID=630&marketID=6

tomf87
Sep 17, 2003, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by revenuee
we'll see how much "performance" he gets out of that machine when he's restarting it every hour.

even if those benchmark results are true, your running it on a system that's most popular keyboard shortcut is "ctrl + alt + del"

not to mention that the computer comes from a company that has "award winning technical support"

has anyone heard Apple brag about how good its tech support is? No.
Why? because no one ever needs to call it, our computers just work.

- all you people out there who are satisfied with the apple updates, and HAVE decided to switch, welcome to ourside; you can finally start trusting your computer-

It is comments like these that make it difficult for any new user to differentiate between fact and fiction.

For example, I have a Compaq notebook at work, and I don't have to restart it ever hour, nor do I press "CTRL-ALT-DEL" other than to login. I've stated before in another thread that Intel architecture really isn't the problem. It is the software and operating system that is the problem. How many times do you swap a processor or another hardware component when an app crashes? More than likely, it is either the app or the OS causing problems.

Don't get me wrong. I love my Mac's and would love to have a PowerBook instead of my Compaq. However, I have to deal with reality, and reality states that my company has standardized with Intel architecture, specifically Compaq. Does that mean I start bashing Mac's at work? No. When I go home to my Mac, do I start bashing Windows? No. Of course, I don't like having to patch my system constantly, worrying about getting a virus, or not being able to use standby (this seems to work then not then work then not).

The great thing with Apple is that they design both the hardware and the OS. That's tight integration which results in a stable OS installation.

I, for one, would like to see the anti-Windows flames stop. Unless there are definite concrete facts, then the message is invalid and just confuses everyone.

Powerbook G5
Sep 17, 2003, 08:49 AM
I don't know, I'm just confused. How does the Dell have half the processors as the PowerBook? I doubt it has half of a processor. The G4 PowerBook was not going to be dual or G5, I thought that was a given, so to get mad at Apple was pointless. If you recall the title of your thread, you were basically pissed at Apple for not releasing a good enough laptop even though you were the one with the unrealistic specs. I am sure that no one would be "THANKS INTEL- I am done here because you didn't release a dual P4 laptop that I wish I had". It just doesn't make sense. Apple didn't promise you a miracle computer, it just delivered what it had.

As far as your current order, just use it for a week. You can return it within a 10 day period, afterall. It's just that these are completely different systems. You can't easily draw a line between Mac and PC in terms of performance. Just use it and see if you either like it or hate it. Also note that Panther is coming out real soon and that is supposed to be one hell of a big upgrade in terms of performance and features. Obviously, there was something about the Mac that got your attention since you went out of your way to try it and and then order one. If that is the case, then take the next step and try it out before you curse Apple and curse the PowerBook.

Squire
Sep 17, 2003, 09:17 AM
Stojamow,

The reason people labeled you as a "troll" is because you came into the forums and, not only bashed (no...that word is overused and is too strong..."voiced disapproval of") Apple, but started a thread to do so. In addition, you have a total of 6 posts (4 in this thread alone) and have been a registered Macrumors.com member for only 3 months. It just sort of seems like you're trying to upset people.

What I don't get, though, is that if you go back and look at your other two posts, it seems that you did not have unrealistic expectations about the recent Powerbook updates.

Originally posted by Stojamow on Sept. 4
"It is obvious that I do not get a performance of a desktop but I still want a reasonable performance. What do you think guys ?!?"

I think most people would say that the Powerbook G4 will have excellent performance. Next...

originally posted by Stojamow on Sept. 10
"They probably introduce new Powerbooks in Paris. Is it G4 or G5 I do not know. If you think realistically it is probably G4 speeded up to something like 1.25-1.5Ghz."

Bingo! You should be in the rumor business. So why was the update such a disappointment?

Squire

irmongoose
Sep 17, 2003, 09:26 AM
You're going to be editing your films on a Dell running Windows? Hehe, nice joke....

...


I mean, you are kidding, right?




irmongoose

Mr. MacPhisto
Sep 17, 2003, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by Stojamow
Because of the upgrade they provided to us I am not going to switch. I need my laptop now - not next year

= I just posted my order to Dell (M60 Notebook)

It is very impressive piece of technology

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2003/09_sep/reviews/cw_dellm60.htm

and please note that the MAC has a G4 1.25ghzDUAL prosessor and it is still left heavily behind

I feel a bit sorry because I like the design but I cannot do compromises with the performance.

:(

Well, using AfterEffects benchmarkng on a Mac is hardly playing fair. It is not optimized anywhere near as well for the Mac platform and suffers greatly. Digital Video Editing magazine is well known for their anti-Mac slant.

I do wish you well with Dell, although I'd honestly recommend Sony or Toshiba for PC laptops. I've purchased over 2 dozen laptops from Dell over the past five years (including their top of the lines) because clients have insisted on using Dell and every single laptop has caused numerous problems. Also, don't expect Dell to stick by their end of the warranty deal. If you laptop breaks, they may take it away for 2-3 weeks at a time. Don;t be surprised if you spend 6-8 hours on hold waiting to talk to a representative from Dell regarding your laptop - it's happened to me about 5 times. There are far better options in the PC world when it comes to both desktops and laptops. Good luck, you're gonna need it.

fourthtunz
Sep 17, 2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by Stojamow

I am going to run the following software in my computer

Avid Express Pro
After Effects

As an independent filmmaker this will be the only computer used to edit. It has to be laptop because I have to be able to take my work to clients etc.

Please do not make this Avid vs FCP conversation.

I think you should get whatever you are comfortable with. I guess I don't understand why you are posting on this forum? If you can get windows to run and are used to avid why would you change? FWIW.. For the Jing you are going to spend you could buy FCP, a powerbook AND a dual Mac! I have FCP4 and am very happy with it, runs on a couple of my machines and is very fast even on an emac. No doubt that a powerbook is not the fastest running ae, but why not check the FCP forums to see what kind of luck people are having going from fcp- avid? FCP is a Pro app, you should be able to export to avid with no problems or a least find a work around which is what most windows users are used to i.e., y2k, constant viruses, the windoz OS etc.
Take care and good luck,
daniel

patrick0brien
Sep 17, 2003, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by fourthtunz
I think you should get whatever you are comfortable with. I guess I don't understand why you are posting on this forum? If you can get windows to run and are used to avid why would you change? FWIW.. For the Jing you are going to spend you could buy FCP, a powerbook AND a dual Mac! I have FCP4 and am very happy with it, runs on a couple of my machines and is very fast even on an emac. No doubt that a powerbook is not the fastest running ae, but why not check the FCP forums to see what kind of luck people are having going from fcp- avid? FCP is a Pro app, you should be able to export to avid with no problems or a least find a work around which is what most windows users are used to i.e., y2k, constant viruses, the windoz OS etc.
Take care and good luck,
daniel

-fourthtunz

You're effort is admirable, but let's please not try to 'convert' Stojamow. He'll move when he has reason to. It's clear he's steeped in shops that use Avid. Yes, the files convert, and all but the picture is bigger than that. Not to mention the EDL's are a different enough as well. These combined with the fire-under-the-ass nature of press deadlines will preclude a switch for now.

-Stojamow

For your future reference, fourthtunz is correct in the points he made, FCP is very impressive. Very. I'd encourage you to look into it and arm yourself with some good knowledge.

Powerbook G5
Sep 17, 2003, 11:46 AM
I personally like converting people the other way right after a major product release...it makes it easier for me to get my hands on what I want without waiting as long on a list of orders that way. :D

CmdrLaForge
Sep 17, 2003, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Dude, I look at it this way...the new PowerBooks can run OS X faster than any PC. I'm happy with the updates. Enough said.

Hi - congrats for your purchase - you have waited so long !

fourthtunz
Sep 17, 2003, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-fourthtunz

You're effort is admirable, but let's please not try to 'convert' Stojamow. He'll move when he has reason to. It's clear he's steeped in shops that use Avid. Yes, the files convert, and all but the picture is bigger than that. Not to mention the EDL's are a different enough as well. These combined with the fire-under-the-ass nature of press deadlines will preclude a switch for now.
-Stojamow


yeah, didn't mean for it to come out that way, but I wasn't sure if he is steeped in avid chops and thought he might still be deciding and should talk to avid users and Fcp users. The OMF function in FCP should allow him to export and import back and forth from fcp-avid but...
The question is, does this work well right now? Fcp4 is a new release so, we'll see,peace
daniel

Stojamow
Sep 17, 2003, 01:13 PM
TO POWERBOOK G5:

I was talking about the test made by Charlie White. He compared Dell Precision M60 laptop to Powermac G4 DUAL 1,25Ghz... There is a link at the beginning of this thread.

TO SQUIRE:

I was still desperately waiting for G5 PB in my mind.

GENERALLY SPEAKING:

I think PatrickOBrien mentioned one of the reasons why I started to look towards Apple at the beginning of the story = FCP. So, the decision to go for AVID was very conscious one. I am aware of the differencies of these programs but I went for AVID because of my reasons.

The second thing which made me interested about a Mac is that while in school we had a workshop with a graphic designer who had a Mac. That's actually my first experience with them. That G3 Tower looked SOOOO great compared to bulky PC boxes during the time. The interface looked a quite cool as well... HEH

The REAL problem which really keeps me on the PC's is probably that I have certain amount of software which do not run in a mac without virtual PC. :(

Somebody talked something about the money. When it comes to price...heh.. the funny thing is that AVID is cheaper than FCP at the moment !

Powerbook G5
Sep 17, 2003, 03:35 PM
It's up to you whether or not you use a Mac or a PC. My only concern is that you don't knock Apple for getting your hopes up since they themselves stated they aren't putting a G5 in a laptop for some time. I remember seeing you saying yourself that you expected a G4 at 1.25-1.5 GHz at Paris and that was what they basically were, so I don't see why you are so shocked and upset at Apple if even you thought that was what they were giving us.

fourthtunz
Sep 17, 2003, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Stojamow
TO POWERBOOK G5:



Somebody talked something about the money. When it comes to price...heh.. the funny thing is that AVID is cheaper than FCP at the moment !

I don't know last I looked avid was a bit more but the last upgrade to FCP and the Included apps, esp soundtrack take it over the top for me . But if your worried about money maybe you should get windoz and avid,peace
daniel

Rower_CPU
Sep 17, 2003, 04:09 PM
Hmmm...

Avid Xpress DV: $995

FCP4: $999

Impressive. :rolleyes:

jelloshotsrule
Sep 17, 2003, 05:28 PM
while i haven't used the latest avid express....

livetype is something that should not be overlooked as far as its value. granted, if you're a graphic artist/compositer, you'll want to do your own stuff mostly. but livetype is pretty impressive for prefab, but configurable, title effects...

soundtrack will get better (i haven't really used it)... and overall, i think fcp is a strong competitor to avid, and in my opinion more intuitive. the main thing i see separating them is on the higher end with film and edls and such. along with maybe some media management stuff..

solvs
Sep 17, 2003, 06:23 PM
You're editing video on a PC!?! :eek:

And on a Laptop? I get the portability thing, but from my experiances Dell seems to either give you speed OR portability. What's the battery life like, how big is it, how hot is it? My Stepmom’s Dell is pretty heavy, has about an hour of battery life, and when it’s not plugged in cuts the speed of the CPU in almost half! She’s always complaining about it, and I always say “shoulda bought a Mac”.

As far as editing on a PC, yeah it may be faster sometimes, but it’s so… painful. Everything's such a hassle. Plus, they can benchmark all they want, my Muti-GHz XP PC at work is painfully slow. And don’t get me started on my Mom’s Sony. :rolleyes:

You may want to try the new PowerBook before you slam it so much (and yes, open yourself up to so much critizism).

legion
Sep 17, 2003, 10:25 PM
If you are really going to use Avid Express Pro (plus Mojo), it's best to buy an Avid configured laptop. These need to be dedicated machines and with Avid approved hardware throughout (then they run flawlessly and are quite impressive.) They offer both PC and Mac versions of the turnkey systems, however the only numbers that matter should be the ones Avid presents since it is their software that you're planning to run. (As for AE, you can install it on an Avid turnkey, just up the RAM 'cause AE loves RAM)

As for pricing, Avid Express Pro is in the $1.5K range (Express DV is in the $1K range.) Mojo (NLE accelerator) adds another $1.6K as an external piece of hardware. This is all without the laptop cost. When you're looking at these systems, price for the laptop itself shouldn't be an issue (if it is, you're looking to work with the wrong package :o )

You should go to an Avid authorized dealer and check out the systems in-person; and I apologize in advance for being rude, but with the level of your questions, getting a turnkey solution seems better suited for you than setting it up yourself since it's important to optimize the system (unloading everything unnecessary and setting internal and harddrive settings) to insure stability. I believe Avid builds laptop systems with 17"PBs or a laptop system using the M60 or D800 Latitude (though in the past they have used IBM ThinkPads and Sonys)

As for FCP, I prefer Avid systems so I'm not going to sway you there (however, both FCP4 and the new Premeire Pro (finally adopting some features from Vegas, Edition, and Avid MC) are getting really good reviews; sadly, they both are (now) not cross-platform so you have to choose a path and follow it...)

Nermal
Sep 18, 2003, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
When I had my Gateway, I called support so often I knew the number by heart

I've called Apple once and know their number off by heart. Maybe I'm just good at remembering numbers. 0080076667666.

rt_brained
Sep 18, 2003, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by Stojamow
Because of the upgrade they provided to us I am not going to switch. I need my laptop now - not next year

= I just posted my order to Dell (M60 Notebook)

It is very impressive piece of technology

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2003/09_sep/reviews/cw_dellm60.htm

and please note that the MAC has a G4 1.25ghzDUAL prosessor and it is still left heavily behind

I feel a bit sorry because I like the design but I cannot do compromises with the performance.

:(
TRANSLATED:
Because of the upgrade they provided to us I am not going to switch. I need my (Apple) laptop now - (but I can)not (afford one until) next year

= I just posted my order to Dell (M60 Notebook), (but I have no idea why)

It (the Powerbook) is very impressive piece of technology.

http://www.dellsucks.net

and please note that (the BIG) MAC has DUAL (hamburgers) and it is still left heavily behind (anything from In 'n' Out).

I feel a bit sorry because I like the design (of the new Powerbooks) but I cannot do compromises with the performance (of my bank account).

Stojamow
Sep 18, 2003, 09:33 AM
rt_brained

Clever you are :o !!!

Unfortunaly people like you make me happy with my decision and btw: I am not living in $$$$$$$ where everything sucks!

Generally Speaking

Barefeats have just done some testing and the new PB's are not that bad after all... I just wonder what is the difference in speed when compared centrino's 1.3 & 1.7 Ghz processors ?!?

http://www.barefeats.com/al15.html

wrc fan
Sep 18, 2003, 02:15 PM
I agree with the people saying go to your local Apple Store and test it out. If you're concerned about After Effects speed, take a project you did and burn it to CD and bring it down with you. They should have AE installed by default on the PowerBook, at least it is in the bay area at all the stores I've been at. Load up the project and start rendering. If it seems too slow to you, then don't get it. Also they have lots of other applications that you can play around in to feel the speed. If you decide not to get it, then at least you can feel sure that you made the right choice based on your feelings of the computer, and not somebody elses.

Stojamow
Sep 19, 2003, 03:03 AM
The results of the laptops are nice as I mentioned, but is it really like that the G4 is still left behind of the Intel processor in terms of pure processor speed. It was a centrino 1.3Ghz they tested and the fastest are nearly 2Ghz.... Against the 1.3Ghz machine the G4 did fine. When looking the tests telling about the procesor speed is seems to be 2 out of 3 tests for G4.

http://www.barefeats.com/al15.html

One thing I also could think about is to buy a dual G5 2Ghz and a laptop when there should not be any speed issues any more.

However. There is one thing which confuse me. As far as I know XEON is 32bit computer and G5 is 64bit one. The G5 do not seem to be any faster than XEON...

http://www.barefeats.com/pentium4.html

:confused:

MacBandit
Sep 19, 2003, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by Stojamow
The results of the laptops are nice as I mentioned, but is it really like that the G4 is still left behind of the Intel processor in terms of pure processor speed. It was a centrino 1.3Ghz they tested and the fastest are nearly 2Ghz.... Against the 1.3Ghz machine the G4 did fine. When looking the tests telling about the procesor speed is seems to be 2 out of 3 tests for G4.

http://www.barefeats.com/al15.html

One thing I also could think about is to buy a dual G5 2Ghz and a laptop when there should not be any speed issues any more.

However. There is one thing which confuse me. As far as I know XEON is 32bit computer and G5 is 64bit one. The G5 do not seem to be any faster than XEON...

http://www.barefeats.com/pentium4.html

:confused:

Please tell me why a 64bit should be any faster then a 32bit computer?

wrc fan
Sep 19, 2003, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by Stojamow
The results of the laptops are nice as I mentioned, but is it really like that the G4 is still left behind of the Intel processor in terms of pure processor speed. It was a centrino 1.3Ghz they tested and the fastest are nearly 2Ghz.... Against the 1.3Ghz machine the G4 did fine. When looking the tests telling about the procesor speed is seems to be 2 out of 3 tests for G4.

http://www.barefeats.com/al15.html


I believe the reason for only having a 1.3GHz, is because it was the only Centrino laptop that they could get their hands on. They use whatever people will let them borrow. Or it could be because it has a similar price point to the PowerBook.

If all you're interested in is pure processor speed than go with that 1.7GHz laptop. If you want the best features for the best price, than get the PowerBook.

Here are two similar configurations I did right now. I feel they are pretty fair. The only questionable thing is I put in DVD+RW and a CD-RW drives. Which I feel is equal to the SuperDrive in the PowerBook. You can take off ~$100 for the CD-RW or ~$380 for the DVD+RW if you don't want both.

http://homepage.mac.com/ilnmcom/pas/pb.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/ilnmcom/pas/dell.jpg

As you can see, the PowerBook is cheaper than the Dell, as well as it has a bigger screen, bigger hard drive, but it doesn't have as nice a video card as the Dell, and the Dell has 66 more mhz than the PowerBook. But the PowerBook is thinner, and weighs less (for it having a bigger screen): 6.9 to 7.0.

Oh yeah, and the Dell has a $200 off thing, so the total is $3,244 vs. $3,124. $120 doesn't seem like much, but when you up the Dell to the full processor, then the price goes up with it as well.

Stojamow
Sep 19, 2003, 06:43 AM
True...

There is a certain point in owning a Mac when working for video industry because all the major applications do run in a Mac but not in a PC.

I have actually started to think to cancel my order and order a Powermac and later on a G4 laptop.

HUMMM....

That might do because then I would be fully capable to run any professional applications if needed.

BTW: As you can see I am building my first own edit :D . Until now I have been editing in rented suites.

tomf87
Sep 19, 2003, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Please tell me why a 64bit should be any faster then a 32bit computer?

Not necessarily faster, but scalable. 64-bit processors are designed to handle more memory and more data at one time.

That may not mean that your programs run faster, but it definitely means you can run more of them without a slow down. A backend heavily loaded database server cluster with a couple hundred terabytes comes to mind. It can keep up with these were a 32-bit would start falling behind.

The main reason why a G5 is faster is more in the memory bus than anything.

MacBandit
Sep 19, 2003, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by tomf87
Not necessarily faster, but scalable. 64-bit processors are designed to handle more memory and more data at one time.

That may not mean that your programs run faster, but it definitely means you can run more of them without a slow down. A backend heavily loaded database server cluster with a couple hundred terabytes comes to mind. It can keep up with these were a 32-bit would start falling behind.

The main reason why a G5 is faster is more in the memory bus than anything.

Your quite correct. I have a question though. Do you know that the G5 can accept to 32bit commands at once substituting a 64bit command? It seems that you are implying that though I highly doubt it can. For some apps with a rewrite I do agree thought there will be a speed in crease but at this moment with no rewrites and with basic programs there is no reason a 64bit processor should be any faster then 32 bit processor. If it is which the G5 it's because of other parts of the chip design.

tomf87
Sep 19, 2003, 06:58 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Your quite correct. I have a question though. Do you know that the G5 can accept to 32bit commands at once substituting a 64bit command? It seems that you are implying that though I highly doubt it can. For some apps with a rewrite I do agree thought there will be a speed in crease but at this moment with no rewrites and with basic programs there is no reason a 64bit processor should be any faster then 32 bit processor. If it is which the G5 it's because of other parts of the chip design.

No, I wasn't implying that and you are correct. My apologies if it came out that way. To be able to scale well, it needs a 64-bit OS running 64-bit applications.

Actually, here's an interesting little blurb. I used to be a Check Point consultant, and I had a customer having performance problems on his Sun box. I found that he was running Solaris in 64-bit mode, while Check Point Firewall-1 is only 32-bit. Switching the OS to 32-bit (about 5 seconds of work) cured the performance woes. It's like the processor was running 64-bit but emulating 32-bit (like Virtual PC or something similar).

So, even if OS X does go 64-bit, the app still may perform at its optimum level until it can address the processor correctly. Only time will tell with that though.

MacBandit
Sep 19, 2003, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by tomf87
No, I wasn't implying that and you are correct. My apologies if it came out that way. To be able to scale well, it needs a 64-bit OS running 64-bit applications.

Actually, here's an interesting little blurb. I used to be a Check Point consultant, and I had a customer having performance problems on his Sun box. I found that he was running Solaris in 64-bit mode, while Check Point Firewall-1 is only 32-bit. Switching the OS to 32-bit (about 5 seconds of work) cured the performance woes. It's like the processor was running 64-bit but emulating 32-bit (like Virtual PC or something similar).

So, even if OS X does go 64-bit, the app still may perform at its optimum level until it can address the processor correctly. Only time will tell with that though.

Am I also correct that the vast majority of regular programs will see no benefit or will not be able to be optimized for 64 bit operations?

tomf87
Sep 19, 2003, 07:06 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Am I also correct that the vast majority of regular programs will see no benefit or will not be able to be optimized for 64 bit operations?

Right on target! 32-bit apps know no 64-bit extensions, so they can't benefit.

Now, some programmers may have checks within their programs to see if it is running on a G5, and run some G5 optimized code, but it wouldn't be truly 64-bit.

patrick0brien
Sep 19, 2003, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by tomf87
Right on target! 32-bit apps know no 64-bit extensions, so they can't benefit.

Now, some programmers may have checks within their programs to see if it is running on a G5, and run some G5 optimized code, but it wouldn't be truly 64-bit.

-All

I think it's important to point out that with the G5, there won't be a performance hit with running 32-bit on that 64-bit chip.

Les Kern
Sep 19, 2003, 12:34 PM
Nice machine, that Dell.
Here's all mine's good for. Beat THAT.

Powerbook G5
Sep 19, 2003, 12:59 PM
It's all about the Solitaire on Windows, that and Hearts!

MacBandit
Sep 19, 2003, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-All

I think it's important to point out that with the G5, there won't be a performance hit with running 32-bit on that 64-bit chip.

Well yes and no. It runs as well as a 32bit machine does at the given MHz/GHz but applications that can take advantage of 64bit code will perform better then the same application not optimized for 64bit. So technically if it isn't performing at it's peak you're taking a performance hit. It isn't a matter of the CPU causing the slow down though, it's a matter of programers needing to optimize for the cpu. So if a cpu can run 64bit programs and the program can be written to take advantage of 64bit programs but isn't you are taking a performance hit.

patrick0brien
Sep 19, 2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Well yes and no. It runs as well as a 32bit machine does at the given MHz/GHz but applications that can take advantage of 64bit code will perform better then the same application not optimized for 64bit. So technically if it isn't performing at it's peak you're taking a performance hit. It isn't a matter of the CPU causing the slow down though, it's a matter of programers needing to optimize for the cpu. So if a cpu can run 64bit programs and the program can be written to take advantage of 64bit programs but isn't you are taking a performance hit.

-MacBandit

Well, taken with that definition - your right. I was referring to the fact that performance won't decrease because you are running a 32bit app on the 64bit G5, unlike what happened when one ran 68k apps on a PPC back at that transition. Remember that? The same app, actually was emulated on the new chip ergo a measurable decrease.

MacBandit
Sep 19, 2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-MacBandit

Well, taken with that definition - your right. I was referring to the fact that performance won't decrease because you are running a 32bit app on the 64bit G5, unlike what happened when one ran 68k apps on a PPC back at that transition. Remember that? The same app, actually was emulated on the new chip ergo a measurable decrease.

Yes, I remember that. Mostly at night though and I wake up sweating. Emulating is a very poor word for what was being done. It's much closer to advanced aging of the process.:eek:

legion
Sep 19, 2003, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by oaklandbum
Here are two similar configurations I did right now. I feel they are pretty fair. The only questionable thing is I put in DVD+RW and a CD-RW drives. Which I feel is equal to the SuperDrive in the PowerBook. You can take off ~$100 for the CD-RW or ~$380 for the DVD+RW if you don't want both.

...edited to save room...

As you can see, the PowerBook is cheaper than the Dell, as well as it has a bigger screen, bigger hard drive, but it doesn't have as nice a video card as the Dell, and the Dell has 66 more mhz than the PowerBook. But the PowerBook is thinner, and weighs less (for it having a bigger screen): 6.9 to 7.0.

Oh yeah, and the Dell has a $200 off thing, so the total is $3,244 vs. $3,124. $120 doesn't seem like much, but when you up the Dell to the full processor, then the price goes up with it as well.

To be fair, you have to add AppleCare to the PB (and that still doesn't add up to on-site care the Dell has) and deduct the cost of the (2nd) CD-RW drive you added to the Dell. The DVD-R/RW in the Dell is also a CD-R/RW drive, so currently you have 2 optical drives. Also, about screen size, it appear the Dell has more pixels.

The Dell will still come out cheaper and a higher performer in raw speed (and that's w/o considering the killer graphics card) Also, since you're comparing it to the 17"PB, I'd say battery life is about the same (this wouldn't be the case if the Dell was compared to the old Ti which last longer)

legion
Sep 19, 2003, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Stojamow
True...
There is a certain point in owning a Mac when working for video industry because all the major applications do run in a Mac but not in a PC.


Not true. Only FCP comes to mind as a Mac only application. There are a lot of compositing software packages and editing packages that are PC only. On top of that, most studios here in LA have a large collection of PCs to work on... so Apple isn't the "standard" for the business.

(Apple is the standard in pre-press/publishing and photography, just not video (and I'd say 50/50 in audio))

wrc fan
Sep 19, 2003, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by legion
To be fair, you have to add AppleCare to the PB (and that still doesn't add up to on-site care the Dell has) and deduct the cost of the (2nd) CD-RW drive you added to the Dell. The DVD-R/RW in the Dell is also a CD-R/RW drive, so currently you have 2 optical drives. Also, about screen size, it appear the Dell has more pixels.


Well, I didn't add AppleCare to the PB because I didn't add the Dell stuff either. It was standard, and I couldn't see a way to take it off.

And if the DVD-R/RW (even though it's a DVD+R/RW) can do CD-R/RW why do they not say so on their web page?

from http://www.dell.com/us/en/bsd/products/model_precn_precn_m60.htm :
24X variable CD-ROM Drive (standard)
8X DVD ROM Drive (optional)
CD-RW drive 24X/10X/24X (optional)
Combination DVD/CD-RW drive 8X/24X/10X/24X (optional)
2X DVD+RW2 rewritable DVD drive 2X/16X/8X/4X/24X (optional)

Like I said in my post, I only added the CD-RW because that's what I thought needed to be added to make it equal to a superdrive.

And sure the Dell does 1920x1200 while the PB does 1440x900. But do you reall want to look at 1920x1200 on a 15.4" screen? That's more resolution than my 20" cinema display has, which I think is the right resolution for it's size.

The Dell will still come out cheaper and a higher performer in raw speed (and that's w/o considering the killer graphics card) Also, since you're comparing it to the 17"PB, I'd say battery life is about the same (this wouldn't be the case if the Dell was compared to the old Ti which last longer)

Like I already said, "if all you're interested in is pure processor speed than go with that 1.7GHz laptop." You're not choosing a PowerBook for it's spead but all it's bult-in features. The PowerBook has gigabit ethernet; the Dell has 10/100. The PowerBook has DVI; the Dell has VGA. The PowerBook has FireWire 400, FireWire 800 and USB 2; The Dell has FireWire 400, USB 2, a Parrallel port, and a Serial port.

The only reason I chose the 17" instead of the 15" is because they were at a closer price point. If I had chosen the 15" then the PowerBook would be an even better deal at $2824 (that's when the 15" Superdrive model gets upgraded to 1 512mb DDR333 SO-DIMM and a 5400rpm hard drive). But then you would have an even slower processor and a smaller screen. But I still think "If you want the best features for the best price, than get the PowerBook."

LethalWolfe
Sep 19, 2003, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by legion
Not true. Only FCP comes to mind as a Mac only application. There are a lot of compositing software packages and editing packages that are PC only. On top of that, most studios here in LA have a large collection of PCs to work on... so Apple isn't the "standard" for the business.

(Apple is the standard in pre-press/publishing and photography, just not video (and I'd say 50/50 in audio))

I'd say Apple hasa 70/30 advantage in the editing world (if not more). Off the top of my head I can only remember seeing two non-Apple machines at any of the post facilities I've worked for/visited. I think they were both Avid DS machines (I'm certain one was, not sure about the other though). Now, if you are talking about finishing/compositing or 3D/FX stuff that's usually more PC/SGI territory.


Lethal

Stojamow
Sep 20, 2003, 03:43 AM
Apple has become a significant player when talking about video industry. I.E. This can be pointed out by looking the pricing & product development by Avid.

Personally I have come to an excellent idea. I do cancel my current order and order a DELL INSPIRON 1100 . That will do.

Unfortunately I have to visit an other website as well and order the following: g5 2ghz dual including 500gb hd and 2gb mem to start with. Oh, of course, i need a display. maybe a 20" ?!?

This will solve the problem. I do have one of the fastest machines out there and I can run all the other software I already have.

:D

Stojamow
Sep 20, 2003, 03:55 AM
And what is the best of this is that if I want to switch to FCP when the FCP5 comes out I can do it ... on the other hand: if I want to carry on with Avid and Macs are clearly slowlier than PC's I can simply take my dongle and put it to my new PC if needed.

:rolleyes:

Stojamow
Sep 20, 2003, 06:28 AM
check this out:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1274138,00.asp

Powerbook G5
Sep 20, 2003, 10:01 AM
The G5 really is an impressive machine. One big way you can tell is by CompUSA, as weird as that sounds. I remember when the PC techs would wander into the Mac section and act like dicks to anyone looking at Macs and putting them down for just about everything saying get a PC instead. Now, even they play around on it or take mention how cool it is. Yesterday one of the techs was playing various CDs and they had one badass screen saver going on it with equalizer and everything. It was connected to one sweet 5.1 digital speaker setup that shook half the store. You can imagine how popular the Mac section was. Just about everyone in the store was somewhere in the Mac area. I just hope this trend continues, because this kind of "cool, awesome" exposure can seriously boost the image of power and performance when peope think of Apple. When you are in a store like that looking at a dull plastic eMachines when just down the hall you have this massive aluminum system with an even more massive LCD monitor blasting music and gathering gasps from the crowd of people, I am sure you'd close your solitaire game and go see what is interesting so many people, too.

MacBandit
Sep 20, 2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Stojamow
check this out:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1274138,00.asp

I've had discussions with other people on the PCMag article and while it's impressive it should have been more impressive. Here's the thing. The G5 should have wiped the floor with the PC hands down it's been shown over and over. I don't know what tests they did but they must of either hand picked the ones the PC did well or they didn't have the Photoshop7 plugin for the G5. Also they probably don't know about the cpu stepping control pane. By setting the CPU to max all the time you will improve benchmarks that use multiple short tests greatly. Finally they didn't compare prices between the Dual/Xeon and the Mac. The reason is probably because the Dual/Xeon with 2gigs of RAM matching the G5 they had would be at least a $1,000 more.

Stojamow
Sep 21, 2003, 03:32 AM
I would like to say that the results were not bad after all. They did admit that the G5 is standing at the line with XEON's and they did recognize the potential of this machine on the whole as they write:

"applications need to be optimized for 64-bit computing to take full advantage of the architecture. "

When it comes to pricing G5 is about €6600 XEON is about €7600 with similar configurations. This means that G5 is about €1000 cheaper (1 € is about 1.1$ ...21st of september in 2003)

However, one thing nyou have to remember is that you can put 4 x 142 Gb HD's (10 000rpm) which gives you more capasity than G5 can offer through internal HD's as I have learned. But everybody do not need RAID and this is why I think Apple has made a good move.

Stojamow
Sep 21, 2003, 04:20 AM
Just want to let you know that I cancelled my order with DELL to get some extra time to think do I really need a laptop. :cool:

Powerbook G5
Sep 21, 2003, 09:45 AM
If you are getting a G5 for its power, I'd go for a cheaper 12" or maybe an iBook as a secondary if you want a laptop. Since you won't need an all-powerful laptop because of the G5, you can go for a cheaper model than the 15" would have been. That way it'd be easier to work with both your laptop and your desktop systems, too. You can even pick up a refurb or even an eBay one for an even cheaper solution...there are lots of possibilities. I just can't find it being too easy going back and forth between a Dell and a PowerMac with your data. Plus, a 12" would be a lot more portable than a Dell.

fourthtunz
Sep 21, 2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
If you are getting a G5 for its power, I'd go for a cheaper 12" or maybe an iBook as a secondary if you want a laptop. Since you won't need an all-powerful laptop because of the G5, you can go for a cheaper model than the 15" would have been. That way it'd be easier to work with both your laptop and your desktop systems, too. You can even pick up a refurb or even an eBay one for an even cheaper solution...there are lots of possibilities. I just can't find it being too easy going back and forth between a Dell and a PowerMac with your data. Plus, a 12" would be a lot more portable than a Dell.

I was thinking of doing this same thing, just getting the 12" powerbook which i think would be the minimum that you would want for video because of the G4. The more I use FCP4 the better deal I find it to be compared to avid express. Soundtrack and the other programs that come with fcp put it head and shoulders above AVid. I have protools but soundtrack is a very useful tool for audio.
Also AVid express can't do HD which now that there are low cost camcorders out that do HD I would think you'd would want to be able to edit it.
Mac addict has a shootout this month with express and FCP,life is good:-)
daniel

fourthtunz
Sep 21, 2003, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Hmmm...

Avid Xpress DV: $995

FCP4: $999

Impressive. :rolleyes:

I forgot to ask, where can you find avid for $995?
thanks
daniel

MacBandit
Sep 21, 2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Hmmm...

Avid Xpress DV: $995

FCP4: $999

Impressive. :rolleyes:

FCP4: $499 on a EDU discount.

fourthtunz
Sep 21, 2003, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by legion
To be fair, you have to add AppleCare to the PB (and that still doesn't add up to on-site care the Dell has) and deduct the cost of the (2nd) CD-RW drive you added to the Dell. The DVD-R/RW in the Dell is also a CD-R/RW drive, so currently you have 2 optical drives. Also, about screen size, it appear the Dell has more pixels.

The Dell will still come out cheaper and a higher performer in raw speed (and that's w/o considering the killer graphics card) Also, since you're comparing it to the 17"PB, I'd say battery life is about the same (this wouldn't be the case if the Dell was compared to the old Ti which last longer)

Yeah and to be fair we should factor in the Mac apps which are much better than the dells and allow you to go right to work. Next year the Mac will be worth more and the dell will be a doorstop.peace
daniel :D

Rower_CPU
Sep 21, 2003, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by fourthtunz
I forgot to ask, where can you find avid for $995?
thanks
daniel

Avid's Website (http://avid.com/products/xpressdv/index.asp) ;)

fourthtunz
Sep 21, 2003, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Avid's Website (http://avid.com/products/xpressdv/index.asp) ;)

Wow lots less than it was just a while ago but still a better comparison would be the avid powerpack for $1295 which still does not compare to everything you get with FCP4:D
Isn't avid partially owned by ms now?
If so I guess they can price stuff at whatever they want and kill the competition as ms has done in the past. I don't think the Federal lawsuit will slow them down much:eek:
daniel

mystixman
Sep 21, 2003, 10:48 PM
Its Mac, not MAC.

G5orbust
Sep 22, 2003, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by etoiles
128MB NVIDIA Quadro FX Go700 graphics accelerator !

The Dell D50/D60 is one of the few 'serious' mobile 3D workstations out there. Quadro's are supposedly the best cards for 3D apps (speed AND stability), especially due to drivers that have been optimized for specific programs. They are not aimed at gaming, but they probably still kick any graphic card currently available for the Mac.

It is expensive, but I guess it must be worth it to some graphic pros on the go.

(not me)
;)

well... here we are:

Quadro Fx 700 Go (http://www.nvidia.com/page/quadrofx_go.html)

ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 (http://www.ati.com/products/mobilityradeon9600/features.html)

Based on specs, it seems that the 9600 has the upper hand here. The quadro is great, but not for gaming. it has driver optimizations soley made for professional graphics application aceleration. This means programs like AutoCAD, Maya and the rest would benefit from this card. However, the 9600 mobility has just a wee bit less power, but is currently the fastest mobility graphics chip out there, so you cannot really compare the two.

Stojamow
Sep 22, 2003, 05:10 AM
Originally posted by fourthtunz
I was thinking of doing this same thing, just getting the 12" powerbook which i think would be the minimum that you would want for video because of the G4. The more I use FCP4 the better deal I find it to be compared to avid express. Soundtrack and the other programs that come with fcp put it head and shoulders above Avid. I have protools but soundtrack is a very useful tool for audio.
Also AVid express can't do HD which now that there are low cost camcorders out that do HD I would think you'd would want to be able to edit it.
Mac addict has a shootout this month with express and FCP,life is good:-)
daniel

Both Avid and FCP are good. The reason I went for Avid is following

- Better Colour Correction
- Ability to edit uncompressed SD for £1300. To do that on FCP platform you have to buy Pinnacle Cinewave system(but you can upgrade that system to edit any HD when it comes cheaper than Avid)
- Avid Xpress Pro actually supports those low cost HD cameras like Panasonic's AG???? whatever...
- The soundtrack is nice, but in my case I do not need it and hey - if I want it later I can buy it as a separate application.
- The media management tool is still ahead of FCP's
- The RT engine of Avid is still better (but they are both working on it...)
- Crossplatform application.. if the PC's are faster next time or if I want a PC as a laptop I can run Avid in that computer as well so no need to learn new program...
-The system is FULLY REALTIME if you buy Mojo... which means that there is NO rendering boys...

However, as I said before the both programs are very good and it is a question of taste rather than question of the tool you get. Both of the programs are better than the other in different kind of editing and they both just simply rock !

:D

Stojamow
Sep 22, 2003, 05:13 AM
As Powerbook G5 said that buy a iBook.. it is a good idea, but the problem is that I need a PC to run my current software and because my editing program is Avid I do not believe that there is too much extra hazzle.

So, if I deside to go for G5 I am afraid that I still have a PC laptop next to this machine.

Stojamow
Sep 22, 2003, 05:32 AM
One more thing about FCP & AVID

In my opinion FCP is better in shorter videos loaded with effects and the ability to build the video with Canvas & timeline is very nice BUT AVID is better when cutting i.e. documentaries as I do.

This is just my humble opinion.

Stojamow
Sep 22, 2003, 05:40 AM
Just came to my mind that if I do following:

Upgrade my Avid to PRo £315
Buy Mojo £1300

Which makes £1615

PLUS

buy PB 1.25Ghz with 2Gb of RAM which is £3000

The Grand Total will be £4615

And if I buy a 2Ghz Dual G5 with 2Gb Ram + 20" Display it will come up to £4147

PLUS the Upgrade to Pro £315

And the Grand Total will be £4362

it is about £300 for G5 BUT then I have to buy a laptop as well PLUS the PB is already renderfree as PB has the Avid Mojo (assumed that you are cutting documentaries with reasonable amount of effects).

HUMM.... :confused:

mmmdreg
Sep 22, 2003, 07:01 AM
to the very original post in this thread:
heh umm.. I hope you like it. I have a 1GHz eMac sitting here with a 2.8GHz Dell a few metres away and I've got to say, the eMac kills it. Speed isn't really comparable between OS's it seems to me because each aspect is different. Anyway, the PC is plagued with inconsistencies and usabilty flaws. Yes, OSX is still not perfect but also Yes, it kills XP as far as OS's go. There are so many issues in the PC - minor as they may be - that you could bathe in them in a bath that has an infinite depth. I mean really. But if you must.. as it seems.. by all means go ahead and try and enjoy the PC.

Stojamow
Sep 22, 2003, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by mmmdreg
to the very original post in this thread:
heh umm.. I hope you like it. I have a 1GHz eMac sitting here with a 2.8GHz Dell a few metres away and I've got to say, the eMac kills it. Speed isn't really comparable between OS's it seems to me because each aspect is different. Anyway, the PC is plagued with inconsistencies and usabilty flaws. Yes, OSX is still not perfect but also Yes, it kills XP as far as OS's go. There are so many issues in the PC - minor as they may be - that you could bathe in them in a bath that has an infinite depth. I mean really. But if you must.. as it seems.. by all means go ahead and try and enjoy the PC.

AS you use both can give me more specific detail what makes Mac's OS so great compared to Windows in everyday life ?

As I do not have a lot of experience with Macs/OS they run I like to know what I will get if I go for Mac.

Stojamow
Sep 22, 2003, 09:08 AM
I was doing my daily shoppings when I found myself thinking of these two platforms + the processor issue in general.

I think women have a very good approach to these things. They do not ask how fast the computer is. They ask is it good to do your job with it.

We find ourselves debating about processor speeds etc. while we can preview about anything nowadays (at least I have been able to while doing my editing) . The question is that how long the final rendering takes and this question has something to do with craetivity but it is much more about the way we organize ourselves I think :rolleyes:

Powerbook G5
Sep 22, 2003, 09:20 AM
In that perspective, I have to go with the Mac hands-down. It works incredibly well and does what you want it to without any problem. It's rare that there is a problem, and when there is, there is usually an easy and quick solution. I just find the systems well designed, the OS and software well integrated, and the user experience must nicer.

mmmdreg
Sep 22, 2003, 09:29 AM
you should really stop double posting. Anyway, it's about the user experience. Yes some people are diehard windows addicts just like some of us swear by macs and linux boxes. You're on a mac forum so obviously you're going to get opinions geared towards them. Go to a PC forum and you'd get the opposite. My friends who use debian and slackware linux distro's think OSX is better than Windows generally. Anyway, the point is that, no matter what we say, it's up to in the end.

I've never done so but I think you should probably rent a Mac for a week and see if you connect with it. If not, got the PC. I'm sure you'll have it doing exactly what you want. I can adapt to things fairly easily and after installing OSX for the first time, after about 2 hours I was hooked and now I know.. quite a lot (to be modest :P). I've gone around using linux - in various forms - as well as windows on a regular basis and to me personally, it just seems that OSX is the best OS.

And yes I do admit that <OSX wasn't too flash hot. The fact was I just liked the way it operated. Now I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole but again, you still have a heap of people out there using it, swearing by it, etc etc etc. So.. go try out a Mac and get one if you like it, and get a PC if you don't. Simple :D

Stojamow
Sep 22, 2003, 10:58 AM
I have actually tried my frieds iMac. The funny thing was that everything I wanted to find I was able to find in seconds. Even when I wanted to find out what was that Mac made of it took less than a minute figure it out and I have to admit that my flatmate bought a used PC laptop about a month ago and when I tried to find out what it was made of it was not easy (he was not entire sure & this is his first computer ever) - and I have to say that at the end of that day the way I tried and though I should be able to do it - well, I wasn't :mad:

When it comes to the question of posting to Mac forum - yes I know that you will recommend a Mac over a PC and that's the whole point: You tell me why it is sooo great and you are the only people who can tell it - WHY? - PC guys don't do OS X because they are afraid that they could get hooked :D

Stojamow
Sep 22, 2003, 11:10 AM
I know I do doublepost again but I think this makes my messages more clear...

So I just visited http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1274138,00.asp again.

I just actually realized that Dual G4 1.42 won DUAL XEON 3.06Ghz in three tests out of six. This should have something to tell when it comes to the question of performance.

According to that test which I trust very much the performance of the new Apple laptops cannot really stay far away from the PC laptops. The real question is rather that are the programs optimized for the processor. In this case it seems to me that Sorenson & Avid have done a good job because as you can see even G4 leaves XEON far behind !!!

(if you scroll down on the PC Magazine's page there is a link at the end of the 2nd chapter called: "see performance table")

:cool:

fjs08
Sep 22, 2003, 12:33 PM
>>I have to go with the Mac hands-down<<

No kidding. Tried to put my office checkbook program on my son's old desktop, thought it would be faster than using VPC and Win 2k.

It was tons easier getting the program on the Mac.

The old pc running win 98 wouldn't install certain items. Gave me a problem when I tried to set up the capability to access my Public iDisk folder, wouldn't read my USB reader. It was a total pain!!! With the Mac, you plug it in, and more times than not, it just works and no frustration and no bad words coming out of my mouth<g>. My wife always knows when I'm working with the Mac vs the PC!!!

Frank

Powerbook G5
Sep 22, 2003, 01:09 PM
That's funny, I have had the same experience. There are some older Windows/PC-DOS games I still play that just plain run as soon as I install them on my Mac under VPC, but they refuse to even open under our Dell with XP. It's so odd that a Mac could literally run PC programs easier than a PC can, but it is known to happen.

ZildjianKX
Sep 22, 2003, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
FCP4: $499 on a EDU discount.

My school has the full version of FCP4 for $299... not bad ey?

patrick0brien
Sep 22, 2003, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by ZildjianKX
My school has the full version of FCP4 for $299... not bad ey?

-ZildjianKX

You realize, of course, you suck. :D

Additionally, you realize, you must buy it at that price out of principal right?

uae
Sep 22, 2003, 02:46 PM
Someone was laughing about editing video on a PC...

It's not that laughable. A dual Xeon running Xpress Pro is an extremley formidable editor...

This may change when the dual G5 comes out...

But it is a fact that you will get way more realtime streams on a PC right now using Avid than you will with a Mac G4.

The G5 might change that...but the dual hasn't hit the streets yet.

No flaming...I am an Avid Mac person.

uae
Sep 22, 2003, 02:49 PM
One more thing...I cut a project last week on an Avid Xpress Pro with Mojo on a dual gig G4 without rendering a single thing - outputting full res DV with uncompressed titles to tape and everything.

Gotta love it.

patrick0brien
Sep 22, 2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by uae
Someone was laughing about editing video on a PC...

-uae

I agree.

We should never laugh like this - lest we color ourselves in the eyes of others.

ZildjianKX
Sep 22, 2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-ZildjianKX

You realize, of course, you suck. :D

Additionally, you realize, you must buy it at that price out of principal right?

Hehe, no kidding... not to mention DVD Studio Pro 2 for $150... hell of a deal. Not sure if I can afford anything after the G5 though... sucks to be poor.

patrick0brien
Sep 22, 2003, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by ZildjianKX
Hehe, no kidding... not to mention DVD Studio Pro 2 for $150... hell of a deal. Not sure if I can afford anything after the G5 though... sucks to be poor.

-ZildjianKX

Would you stop it?!? My head is going to cave in!

uae
Sep 22, 2003, 03:34 PM
After playing with DVD Studio Pro and Soundtrack at the Apple store...I REALLY WANT THEM. :)

Toys!!!

mmathis
Sep 22, 2003, 03:50 PM
I'm in the same boat as you, ZildjianKX. I used my whole semester's financial aid loan to order a dual G5, and I don't have any money left for fun stuff to put into it! On a side note, to all you guys looking for good deals on FCP and other Apple apps, you guys should befriend a college student and ask them to buy it at their bookstore for you! At my school (San Francisco State), Final Cut 4 is only about $300. It supposed to be for educational use only, but......

hulugu
Sep 22, 2003, 04:43 PM
That wasn't a review, it was a infomercial. Total astroturf, but just a note as well:

Dell Apple 15" PB
1.7Ghz M 1.25 Ghz G4
60BG @7200 80 @5400
128mb Nvidia FX 64mb ATI 9600
USB 2.0 USB 2.0
Firewire Firewire 4 & 8
I assume wireless (b?) APX (g)
4925 3924

So these are comparable machines, the memory is the same, the video card in the Dell is debatably better, but the PB offers better wireless, firewire 4 & 8, lighted keyboard and more HD space. And it's almost 100 dollars cheaper. WTF!
But, whatever go buy your Dell, I hope it doesn't suck, and try not to get a virus.

MacBandit
Sep 22, 2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by uae
Someone was laughing about editing video on a PC...

It's not that laughable. A dual Xeon running Xpress Pro is an extremley formidable editor...

This may change when the dual G5 comes out...

But it is a fact that you will get way more realtime streams on a PC right now using Avid than you will with a Mac G4.

The G5 might change that...but the dual hasn't hit the streets yet.

No flaming...I am an Avid Mac person.

Okay I admit I know very little about video editing so I'm asking a question here. Why does this table show the G4 beating the Xeon in Avid?

http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/2/0,3363,sz=1&i=28726,00.gif

uae
Sep 22, 2003, 07:25 PM
That # is for encoding video. (Exporting Quicktimes and such)

In terms of realtime streams...the Mac G4 Avids are being beaten by PC Avids. (In Xpress Pro and Adrenaline)

For example, the HP dual 3gig Avid Adrenaline can do 5-8 streams of full quality uncompressed video in realtime. While the 1.42 dual gig G4 has to be in "Draft" mode to get the same results.

This has to do with bus speeds as well. I am 100% positive that the dual G5 will give the Xeon at least a good run for it's money if not a whooping when it becomes readily available.

fourthtunz
Sep 22, 2003, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by uae
That # is for encoding video. (Exporting Quicktimes and such)


This has to do with bus speeds as well. I am 100% positive that the dual G5 will give the Xeon at least a good run for it's money if not a whooping when it becomes readily available.

This is not a surprise is it, seeing as how ms owns part of avid? Final cut runs very fast on the Mac has better features even than the more expensive xpress pro and kicks its @ss in audio expecially now with soundtrack.
The G5 only makes things better. windows users should thank apple for driving down the cost of xpress:D
daniel

uae
Sep 22, 2003, 08:46 PM
Oh please Microsoft does not own part of Avid.

The Microsoftness has nothing to do with it....it is fact that the G4s lag behind in HARDWARE. Adobe will tell you the same thing.

The G5s should change this.

Of course Final Cut Pro runs fast on a Mac. Avid Xpress Pro runs fast on a Mac.

But you take Avid Xpress Pro (or Adrenaline) on a Mac and Avid Xpress Pro (or Adrenaline) on a PC the PC is currently faster.

This is a hardware issue and has absoluteley NOTHING to do with Microsoft.

Rower_CPU
Sep 22, 2003, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by uae
Oh please Microsoft does not own part of Avid.
...
http://www.internetweek.com/news/news0616-4.htm

MacBandit
Sep 23, 2003, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
http://www.internetweek.com/news/news0616-4.htm

Wow it's always good to have the evidence. That was back in 1998 no less so 5 years of development with a large share. Though there is no doubt that the Mac WAS definitely lacking when it came to system architecture.

irmongoose
Sep 23, 2003, 03:52 AM
Originally posted by ZildjianKX
My school has the full version of FCP4 for $299... not bad ey?

Not bad... not bad at all. Which school, by the way? Why do you think they have it for so cheap?



irmongoose

Stojamow
Sep 23, 2003, 04:01 AM
HUMMM....

Microsoft owned 9.1% in 1998. When it was when Avid left Mac platform for a while before it was forced to return by FCP ?!?

Rocksaurus
Sep 23, 2003, 04:39 AM
I really doubt those benchmarks... The 1.7 P4 M was beating the 3 GHz P4 tower... Does anyone else think that seems fishy? That Dell's a good notebook performance-wise, no doubt, but the G4 is still pretty powerful in its own respect. I know it's too late and you've already sold your soul, but I'm just saying the benchmarks you provided are really bogus.

Stojamow
Sep 23, 2003, 04:50 AM
I have not sold my soul - not yet - actually the results published by PC Magazine (table of results above this message on this page) made me thinking about the way Charlie tested those machines...



:)

fourthtunz
Sep 23, 2003, 07:44 AM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
http://www.internetweek.com/news/news0616-4.htm
Rower, thanks for backing me up buddy:D
I wish I didn't get involved in wrestling with the trolls on here but sometimes their trash bugs me:rolleyes:
They act like we don't know that pc's will perform some tests faster. Avid didn't do pcs until ms stepped in, but Protoools on the Mac is still king in studios worldwide. Even with the lagging processors Macs are very prevalent in video and imaging. Pecees are cheap but if Gates gives them away I don't want one:cool:
daniel

uae
Sep 23, 2003, 11:37 AM
Oh Geez. I'm not an troll.

I love Macs. I use them every day. I run Avid Xpress Pro on my dual gig G4 and it rocks.

The fact is...PCs are faster. Are they better? No.

I was aware that Avid bought DS from Microsoft...I wasn't aware that they owned Avid stock. Heck I own Avid stock.

Microsoft still doesn't have anything to do with it.

The current line of Xeons are faster than the G4. Adobe and Avid will tell you that.

The G5...as I said before...will change this.

I am not a troll. I love Macs. I'm not a troll because I love Avid as well.

fourthtunz
Sep 23, 2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by uae
Oh Geez. I'm not an troll.

I love Macs. I use them every day. I run Avid Xpress Pro on my dual gig G4 and it rocks.

The fact is...PCs are faster. Are they better? No.

I was aware that Avid bought DS from Microsoft...I wasn't aware that they owned Avid stock. Heck I own Avid stock.

Microsoft still doesn't have anything to do with it.

The current line of Xeons are faster than the G4. Adobe and Avid will tell you that.

The G5...as I said before...will change this.

I am not a troll. I love Macs. I'm not a troll because I love Avid as well.

I'm glad that you love macs, nice resume by the way! Yeah pecees are faster running software that is far more optomized for the pc.
adobe nor avid are optomized for the Mac the way that final cut is, so the change for me came with the g4 running final cut.
Microsoft has everything to do with anything that has to do with computing. The Federal case against them more than proves that.
Keep doin those videos, respect,
daniel
:D

uae
Sep 23, 2003, 12:26 PM
I never wanted to start a Mac vs. PC war. Or an Avid vs. FCP war.

I am a bit biased since I edit on the Avid (as well as teach the official Avid classes).

I have liked that I have seen with FCP but it really doesn't fit into my line of work since we cut everything on Avid. I do love Soundtrack though. I may have to get that. It is really addicting.

Thanks for the compliments on the resume.

Stojamow
Sep 24, 2003, 08:04 AM
HUMMM.....

Nobody seems to comment that test made by PC Magazine where even G4 outperformed XEON 3Ghz in 3 tests out of 6

:(

iPC
Sep 24, 2003, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by Stojamow
HUMMM.....

Nobody seems to comment that test made by PC Magazine where even G4 outperformed XEON 3Ghz in 3 tests out of 6

:(
In general, the XEON has been a huge disappointment. It's a good server architecture, and that is about it. The difference in performance when compared with a standard P4 is usually not worht the expense. Not to mention that there are 3.2GHz P4's now with 800MHz bus.

Avid vs FCP - considering that National Geographic does everything on Avid now...

BenWakin
Sep 24, 2003, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by hulugu
That wasn't a review, it was a infomercial. Total astroturf, but just a note as well:

Dell Apple 15" PB

128mb Nvidia FX 64mb ATI 9600


So these are comparable machines, the memory is the same, the video card in the Dell is debatably better, but the PB offers better wireless, firewire 4 & 8, lighted keyboard and more HD space.

I beg to differ on the video card. ATI is trampling the market right now due to the recent benchmarks on Half-Life 2. Overall the technology in the ATI cards are better even though nVidia has the support of a lot of companies in the gaming industry.

fourthtunz
Sep 24, 2003, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by iPC
I

Avid vs FCP - considering that National Geographic does everything on Avid now...

Yes Avid is the big dog in video as Protools is for audio. These are both owned by avid and started out as hardware and software packages and then due to competition they have put out software only versions.
The big debate is whether the software only solutions will soon kill off the bigdogs?
I do more audio than video so I use Protools HD for audio and FCP for video.
Fcp kicks but on the current version of xpress,( in my opinion) right now and is also used by big playas, where it will stop nobody knows:confused:
daniel

actionslacks
Sep 24, 2003, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by iGAV
On Dual machines, you can pull a little trick with After Effects and the After Effects Render engine... for a serious performance (2x) speed increase.. ;)

What's the trick?

uae
Sep 24, 2003, 11:45 AM
Fcp kicks but on the current version of xpress,( in my opinion) right now and is also used by big playas, where it will stop nobody knows:confused:
daniel

I disagree. If one needs to have interopability with the entire Avid line then there is no beating Avid Xpress. Take a spin on Avid Xpress Pro w/Mojo. That is a GREAT offline system. (If your material is on DV it is a GREAT online system fo DV)

I cut a project last week without hardly any rendering. The really neat thing with Avid Xpress Pro with Mojo is the ability to mix resolutions in the timeline. For example I had DV footage with uncompressed titles and composites all in full res real time. Pretty neat.

But I really don't want to start a FCP vs Avid war here. Nor a Mac vs PC war. (The above Avid Xpress Pro was on a Mac)

The thing that really has me drooling about this rev of FCP is Soundtrack. I may have to get that.

fourthtunz
Sep 24, 2003, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by uae
I disagree. If one needs to have interopability with the entire Avid line then there is no beating Avid Xpress. Take a spin on Avid Xpress Pro w/Mojo. That is a GREAT offline system. (If your material is on DV it is a GREAT online system fo DV)
The thing that really has me drooling about this rev of FCP is Soundtrack. I may have to get that.

I have never had to export omf to avid so I don't know how well it works but I don't need avid I have fcp:D
Well if you get mojo and express pro then you are talking 3 times the money of fcp:rolleyes:
If I really need speed I would get the dual G5 which I would think get you enough speed?
Yeah soundtrack is Apples version of acid pro which along with fcp is a great deal but go check the other great apps included with final cut, its one of the only upgrades I didn't mind paying for :D
I post the link but you know apple.com:)
p.s. does mojo work with the G5 yet? Protools doesn't and probably won't for a while
daniel:confused:

Stojamow
Sep 25, 2003, 09:11 AM
I was actually able to get my hands on to the 1.25Ghz PB here in London West End. It is clearly a slightly thicker than TiBook but it is just so beautiful machine to look and so are the G5 Powermac's and Formac's displays already match with the colour.

:D

uae
Sep 25, 2003, 12:20 PM
Yes. Xpress Pro and Mojo are qualified for the G5.

Stojamow
Sep 26, 2003, 05:38 AM
However, the original question remains unsolved....

Do I buy a Powerbook or should I go to Dell?!?

According to the people who have been dicussing in this thread Apple has better OS, but Dell is faster if I have got it right.

This is something I have to solve.

:confused:

Squire
Sep 26, 2003, 08:38 AM
Powerbook.

I've used PCs for a few years on and off (about 10) but it never ceases to amaze me when the computer just does something that I don't really want it to do. And my reaction has gone from a "What the hell is wrong with this thing!" to more of a "Well, I guess I'll try CTRL+ALT+DEL again."

My Mac, on the other hand, just elevates my computing experience (in the very simplest sense) to a new level. I "play" on my Mac but if I ever had to do real work on it, I'm sure I'd be a lot more productive than on a Wintel machine.

The experience is just better.

Squire

patrick0brien
Sep 26, 2003, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by Stojamow
However, the original question remains unsolved....

Do I buy a Powerbook or should I go to Dell?!?

According to the people who have been dicussing in this thread Apple has better OS, but Dell is faster if I have got it right.

This is something I have to solve.

:confused:

-Stojamow

My recommendation is the Mac for what you want to do with it. It's reliability is key. Speed is nothing without it.

Stojamow
Oct 14, 2003, 03:21 AM
Hummm......

Holidays from net makes good - it gives you time to think :D

That's something I have been thinking about. Whether you go for PC or Mac the main issue is the same: pro desktops are faster.
If you want a laptop, you have to remind yourself that the speed cannot be the main issue you're looking for. Rather the flexibility the laptop has to offer.

I have a funny feeling that I might have an Apple on my desk at the end of the month.

mmmdreg
Oct 14, 2003, 04:01 AM
Well that's all fine and dandy now ain't it?

yamabushi
Oct 14, 2003, 06:15 AM
Stojamow - Where do you plan to perform most of your work? If you think that you will be happy with one location for most of your Avid/FCP work the Dual G5 will work great. If you decide you need more than half a terabyte of storage, an external RAID 5 box or Firewire HD is easy to add.

It's hard to know whether or not you would really prefer working on a Mac until you have done it for a while. A few people who try Macs will still prefer Windows.

I have done amateur video work on PC, Mac and Amiga. I now prefer Mac but ten years ago preferred Amiga. PC is okay and will do the job. However for some reason, working on a Mac just doesn't seem like work. :D

fourthtunz
Oct 14, 2003, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by yamabushi

I have done amateur video work on PC, Mac and Amiga. I now prefer Mac but ten years ago preferred Amiga. PC is okay and will do the job. However for some reason, working on a Mac just doesn't seem like work. :D

Yeah the videotoaster on the Amiga rocked! But it was just a pass through device and front end for machine control,but hey DV wasn't around then and 40 megabyte harddrives were huge and 16 meg of ram were rockin!
Look what you can do on a Mac now:
http://www.apple.com/pro/film/coen/
peace

yamabushi
Oct 14, 2003, 08:22 AM
Very nice, but I won't watch it. I live in Minnesota and still have not forgiven the Coen brothers for Fargo. :p

fourthtunz
Oct 14, 2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by yamabushi
Very nice, but I won't watch it. I live in Minnesota and still have not forgiven the Coen brothers for Fargo. :p

Ya,sure:D Cumon, that was a great movie:D
We go through the same thing when hollywierd tries to do a Maine accent:rolleyes:
Ayuh, they're wicked bad:cool:
peaece
daniel

Stojamow
Oct 15, 2003, 05:00 AM
TO YAMABUSHI:

I am afraid that I will carry my edit between countys, countries and even continents.... which means that I go for a laptop after all because it makes life that much easier, and if needed I can always "online" the project to better system when finishing it up.

I was thinking about the Dual G5 but then realized that it does not meet the requirements of flexibility I have to place to my edit.

Stojamow
Oct 15, 2003, 05:04 AM
BTW: Have I understood right if I say that if I update the OS of Powerbook G4 1.25Ghz to Panther it will support DVD-RW ?!?

:confused:

patrick0brien
Oct 15, 2003, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by Stojamow
BTW: Have I understood right if I say that if I update the OS of Powerbook G4 1.25Ghz to Panther it will support DVD-RW ?!?

:confused:

-Stojamow

Well, if you have a superdrive now, the answer is yes - supposedly.

stefman
Oct 15, 2003, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Stojamow
BTW: Have I understood right if I say that if I update the OS of Powerbook G4 1.25Ghz to Panther it will support DVD-RW ?!?

:confused:

I'm using DVD-RW on my rev. A FP iMac under 10.2.8 for backups.

As a mater of fact, I'm using a DVD-RW right now to do a backup to prepare for the arrival of my new 15" PB tomorrow:D

So as far as I'm concerned, it's even supported under Jaguar.

Stojamow
Oct 18, 2003, 03:30 AM
That is good news. Thank you very much !

One gap closed.

I also wonder how to get Copy+Paste on Mac

There is also some bad news: I visited my home country and tried to find the local macworld magazine ... the magazine was discontinued. Even during the time I did not though seriously to buy a Mac by myself there was so much very usable information about computers, software and about "creative working" in general. Very good tips and advice.

:mad:

ABG
Oct 18, 2003, 05:42 AM
Great thread! I am a bit worried that anytime someone says something other than "Mac's are great" there is a lot of finger pointing and shouting of "troll". Hopefully I'll avoid that - I've ordered my first Mac - PB 15" G4 etc, having just taken delivery last week of a Samsung X10 14" 1.6Mhz Centrino machine which my wife will use.

The buying decision was basically that I have always wanted a Mac - ever since I saw one using PageMaker to do DTP work in 1986! I've used machines such as Sinclair Spectrum, Atari ST, Commodore Amiga, and PC's from a 386 SX16 to my current desktop Athlon. I've just got fed up with things not always working as they should on Pcs. Microsoft have one hell of a task - to make sure almost anything (software / hardware) that comes out for a PC will work on their OS. It just makes more sense that one company controls the hardware and the software (e.g. Apple).

I also have a question on DV editing software which I'd welcome comments on - I have got FCE bundled with the powerbook, but in a fit of enthusiam bought Adobe Premier 6.0. I don't need both - which would be the best one to keep?

BTW perhaps peope who type MAC are just shouting it out?;) :D

Stojamow
Oct 18, 2003, 07:26 AM
TO ABG

I think you spoke t he truth ;)

+ the main reason going to Mac is probably the same than yours. Curiosity for the new things. That's how I read your message ...

To your question: I hate to say this: it depends....

If you are absolutely sure that you do not return to PC - keep FCE which can be upgraded to FCP . If you might return to PC you will have a tough desicion between these two.

FCE can grow to FCP4 and provide very dedicated editing tools while the latest version of Premier is not supported on the Mac platform and according t o Adobe this will be the case from now on....

But at the end of the day I like to say that it is not too hard to learn the other one later on if needed. In your case I would like give them a try and keep the one which works better for me.

ABG
Oct 18, 2003, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by Stojamow
[B] the main reason going to Mac is probably the same than yours. Curiosity for the new things. That's how I read your message ...


Thanks for the comments - you are right. I have a feeling that the Powerbook will work out better than a PC laptop, but until I've tried it I won't know for sure.

I'm confident the powerbook will keep it's resale value better, but mostly I just want a change. And being a typical marketing person I love the design - and the design ethic (not having to become an IT expert just to make it all work)

As for the editing software your suggestion is an approach which makes sense (and I didn't know that Premier was no longer going to be developed for the Mac). I'd love to move our main PC to a G5 with 23" screen eventually (who wouldn't!) - so for the meantime I'll be both a Mac and PC user:rolleyes:

revenuee
Oct 18, 2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by ABG


I also have a question on DV editing software which I'd welcome comments on - I have got FCE bundled with the powerbook, but in a fit of enthusiam bought Adobe Premier 6.0. I don't need both - which would be the best one to keep?

BTW perhaps peope who type MAC are just shouting it out?;) :D

I use FCP and i edit DV, i've read the FCE is just FCP without support for HD and SD so i think you should be fine with FCE

I used premiere on PC, but i found that it didn't like how it worked in my mac

I would stick with FCE personally, but if you already have both, try them out - only you can decide what works better for you

ilben77
Oct 18, 2003, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by revenuee

has anyone heard Apple brag about how good its tech support is? No.
Why? because no one ever needs to call it, our computers just work.



Do you have any idea how foolishly naive you sound?

revenuee
Oct 18, 2003, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by ilben77
Do you have any idea how foolishly naive you sound?

4 years without an apple tech call - i speak from my own experience

ilben77
Oct 18, 2003, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by revenuee
4 years without an apple tech call - i speak from my own experience

Your post sounded more like generalalisation to me...

I use both platforms, windows on different machines for over 10 years, with now an athlon XP2600.
and macs for over 8 years, now pb12".

Never had to call tech support for neither of those platforms. (could usually solve occuring problems myself)
But I do know a lot of people who had major problems also on both platforms that did call tech support.

fourthtunz
Oct 18, 2003, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by ilben77
Your post sounded more like generalalisation to me...

I use both platforms, windows on different machines for over 10 years, with now an athlon XP2600.
and macs for over 8 years, now pb12".

Never had to call tech support for neither of those platforms. (could usually solve occuring problems myself)
But I do know a lot of people who had major problems also on both platforms that did call tech support.

Yeah, I've used and OWNED 5 or 6 of both over the last 10 years and worked for a hospital in IS that had 3000 pcs, Peecees do have more problems, tech call or no tech calls.
Anyone who trys to sell the line that macs and peecees are the same now is either smoking something(will you share?:cool: )
and/or know more about peecees that I will ever want to know.
Generalizations are the rule not the exception, which is the case when a mac goes bad:-(
I have 2 7500's from 95' that I still use, the pc's from that period are useless.
daniel

wdlove
Oct 18, 2003, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by revenuee
4 years without an apple tech call - i speak from my own experience

I believe that it all depends on the level of your expertise. Personally, I run into problems and have called Apple. It helps me to have one on one support. Easier for me to verbalize a problem.

revenuee
Oct 18, 2003, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by wdlove
I believe that it all depends on the level of your expertise. Personally, I run into problems and have called Apple. It helps me to have one on one support. Easier for me to verbalize a problem.

I have had no problems to report - i've only called my reseller about a third party devices that had some trouble, but thats third party

patrick0brien
Oct 18, 2003, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by ABG
...but in a fit of enthusiam bought Adobe Premier 6.0. I don't need both - which would be the best one to keep?

-ABG

Well, one snippet of my experience with Premier has been that even when they made a Mac native version (5), it could have trouble identifying attached hardware like drives and decks.

It is this reason I moved to FCP.

Now without a Mac Premier, I'm very happy with it.

Now, of course this was on a Mac, that should say nothing to the XP version of 6, but if past Premier performance meets current XP performance, that says that the situation may not have improved...

LethalWolfe
Oct 18, 2003, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by revenuee
I use FCP and i edit DV, i've read the FCE is just FCP without support for HD and SD so i think you should be fine with FCE

I used premiere on PC, but i found that it didn't like how it worked in my mac

I would stick with FCE personally, but if you already have both, try them out - only you can decide what works better for you

FCE is DV only, but it also limited keyframing, no batch capture/loging, and other things that casual users/hobbiests probably don't need.

Between Premiere 6 and FCE I can't comment because I've never used FCE so I don't know all the handicaps it has or what you . But between FCP and Premiere 6 it's FCP hands down.


Lethal

revenuee
Oct 19, 2003, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
FCE is DV only, but it also limited keyframing, no batch capture/loging, and other things that casual users/hobbiests probably don't need.

Between Premiere 6 and FCE I can't comment because I've never used FCE so I don't know all the handicaps it has or what you . But between FCP and Premiere 6 it's FCP hands down.


Lethal

No Batch capture?

bummer, thats definatly a feature i like using in FCP, aspecially on projects with multiple source tapes.

Wait - so how does FCP, other then Price, help the events videographer - i do wedding video's and my workflow has spead up since i started using the batch capture - weird

revenuee
Oct 19, 2003, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by ilben77
Your post sounded more like generalalisation to me...

I use both platforms, windows on different machines for over 10 years, with now an athlon XP2600.
and macs for over 8 years, now pb12".

Never had to call tech support for neither of those platforms. (could usually solve occuring problems myself)
But I do know a lot of people who had major problems also on both platforms that did call tech support.

I would also like to compare

That with the exeption of my SCSI hardware

I have stacks of unopened software that came with hardware i bought, because there was no need to install them inorder to get the hardware to work on my computer... Unlike on my PC where even after going through the install procedure, my hardware still wouldn't work.

You can call me naive all you want - but i have no patiance for my computer - i've got better things to do

Phil Of Mac
Oct 19, 2003, 04:47 AM
Originally posted by Stojamow
Because of the upgrade they provided to us I am not going to switch. I need my laptop now - not next year

= I just posted my order to Dell (M60 Notebook)

It is very impressive piece of technology

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2003/09_sep/reviews/cw_dellm60.htm

and please note that the MAC has a G4 1.25ghzDUAL prosessor and it is still left heavily behind

I feel a bit sorry because I like the design but I cannot do compromises with the performance.

:(

All I can say is...

revenuee
Oct 19, 2003, 04:54 AM
Phil Of Mac, you rule

your posts always crack me up

Phil Of Mac
Oct 19, 2003, 04:59 AM
Originally posted by revenuee
Phil Of Mac, you rule

your posts always crack me up

Thank you, thank you :)

patrick0brien
Oct 19, 2003, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by revenuee
You can call me naive all you want - but i have no patiance for my computer - i've got better things to do

-revenuee

I think you hit upon the single best reason most of us with multi-platform experience who prefer Macs, prefer Macs - no messing around.

It reminds me of an event that occurred just this week. One of the IT guys at the office was disparaging my 12PB. So I borrowed a two button scroll mouse.

I plugged it into my XPpro box, and it "found new hardware" and installed the drivers in typical fashion.

He nodded.

I then transferred the mouse to the Mac.

Nothing.

At first he was going to cast a dispersion, but before he could, I demonstrated that the mouse worked.

That was quite an epiphany for him. The Mac didn't even have to install drivers.

It's a minor thing to us Mac users, but to him, it was unbelievable.

revenuee
Oct 19, 2003, 12:57 PM
Exactly patrick0brien

My hardware just has to work.

I've got other stuff that can go wrong, - under/over exposed film, poor audio recording, distortion on both image and sound, the list goes on

The computer is supposed to make fixing these problems easier, not create a slew of new problems

My PC wasn't doing that for me, it was creating more problems then fixing.

Stojamow
Oct 22, 2003, 01:14 PM
very well,

today my friend came by and we wanted to install networking to my computer for some purposes...

Things did not go to the plan. Actually we had to install the dfgsdlk ng~@~@@~"£!"£$!"£$! WINDOWS again... from the beginning yes...

Soo, my expectations are pretty high with OS X at the moment...

patrick0brien
Oct 22, 2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Stojamow
Soo, my expectations are pretty high with OS X at the moment...

-Stojamow

Welll, I hope you can knock them back a peg or two - nothing is perfect. And OS X cn frustrate a Windows user even when working properly due to the diffferences in GUI and operations.

So gird yourself - even a little bit.

revenuee
Oct 22, 2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-Stojamow

Welll, I hope you can knock them back a peg or two - nothing is perfect. And OS X cn frustrate a Windows user even when working properly due to the diffferences in GUI and operations.

So gird yourself - even a little bit.

I have some major issues with OS X - i updated from OS 9.2 two weeks ago, and i'm having major issues with my SCSI hardware...

stanmoonie
Oct 22, 2003, 07:26 PM
Maybe I got lost some where but do you really know what you are talking about?

1) Do you know what speed Mac notebooks really have?

2) Have you really ever used a Mac?

I ask these because you must realize that there is no Mac note book with a double micro in it. Ask yourself a question why is adobe putting these products out if the Mac cannot handle them? One last thing do I believe you are a Troll YES YOU ARE!!!! At least get your facts right first before you post here..

revenuee
Oct 22, 2003, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by stanmoonie
Maybe I got lost some where but do you really know what you are talking about?

1) Do you know what speed Mac notebooks really have?

2) Have you really ever used a Mac?

I ask these because you must realize that there is no Mac note book with a double micro in it. Ask yourself a question why is adobe putting these products out if the Mac cannot handle them? One last thing do I believe you are a Troll YES YOU ARE!!!! At least get your facts right first before you post here..

What are you even talking about?

Oh wait, that is what this thread is originaly about... LOL ... we've moved so far away from the topic.

LOL... no need to name call though.. thats what arn and eyelikeheart are here for... haha

MacBandit
Oct 22, 2003, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by stanmoonie
Maybe I got lost some where but do you really know what you are talking about?

1) Do you know what speed Mac notebooks really have?

2) Have you really ever used a Mac?

I ask these because you must realize that there is no Mac note book with a double micro in it. Ask yourself a question why is adobe putting these products out if the Mac cannot handle them? One last thing do I believe you are a Troll YES YOU ARE!!!! At least get your facts right first before you post here..

First don't pass judgment before reading the an entire thread.

Second if you think someones a Troll then DON'T FEED THEM!!!

damax452
Oct 22, 2003, 09:35 PM
Apple makes great computers, Dell makes great computers.

When are you guys gonna realize that there is no point in arguing over whether PCs or Macs are better?

No one is right, no one is wrong. Everyone looks stupid when they argue over stuff like this though.

Whateva.

Phil Of Mac
Oct 22, 2003, 09:43 PM
That's right, it's cosmically impossible for one brand of computer to be better than another.

revenuee
Oct 23, 2003, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
That's right, it's cosmically impossible for one brand of computer to be better than another.


Ya... your right, exept that macs are better... LOL

Thats right, i'm thick, your points went in one ear and out the other. HAHA


Joking aside : i find myself a constant victim of Wintel users telling me that i use an inferior product, and that i'm stupid for not switching back.

This forum is a refuge for me where i can talk to other that share my love for my machine.

However, i will say that my experience with PC ended at Win 98 so i have no idea if 2000, ME, or XP are really any good. So in reality i can only comment on what use to be, and not what is current
(longhorn? - what is that - a new animal?)

And i must say that my recent updating from OS 9 to OS 10 has been less the pleasing. I know that OS 10 is supposed to be more stable, but it has been driving me insane.

Phil Of Mac
Oct 23, 2003, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by revenuee
And i must say that my recent updating from OS 9 to OS 10 has been less the pleasing. I know that OS 10 is supposed to be more stable, but it has been driving me insane.

So while your new OS is more stable, you are less stable?

revenuee
Oct 23, 2003, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
So while your new OS is more stable, you are less stable?

very much so...and honesty, i never had trouble with OS 9... i upgraded so that i can get newer software ie; FCP 4 from FPC 1.2... and so that i can play around with a little UNIX, but i'm not totally convinced that it was money well spent.

The only real advantage is that i found that in iMovie, rather then marking in and out points like in FCP, i just let it play through and the software slices the clips for me. I find it a real time saver on events video work where i have lots of short clips that need trimming.

but other then that, i acctually have problems... vs. non running under OS 9

ABG
Oct 23, 2003, 08:31 AM
Thanks to all those who offered advice on Premier 6 vs FCE/FCP.

I've loaded FCE onto the powerbook and will have a play as suggested. My Powerbook 15" arrived on Monday (minus carry case:rolleyes: ) and I have been getting to grips with it over the past few days. Maybe I'm having trouble "thinking different" but it's not as fun as I had expected:( which is bad news when you spend £2.5k on a computer & software. The battery life seems poor (1:40 showing after fully charging?) and I can't even begin to figure out how to link it to ADSL via WiFi.

I've spent the last few hours trying to get my Nokia 7650 linked to the powerbook :confused: I've even bought "media mobile high speed" from Apple to help the process along, but apart from getting the powerbook and the phone paired in bluetooth nothing is working. The software loads - says it can't find the modem and shuts down so I don't even get a chance to tinker with it.

I'm sure Mac OS X is great, but I am really surprised how much I am struggling. Given I had hoped to move our main desktop unit to a G5 in the next 6 months this isn't a great start.:(

I am trusting everyone here that the learning curve is going to be worth it!;) :D

patrick0brien
Oct 23, 2003, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by ABG
I am trusting everyone here that the learning curve is going to be worth it!;) :D

-ABG

The move From PC to Mac is always a challenging learning curve as one will tend to overthink it a bit. Once you get used to it, you will begin to feel the same as many of us here.

Hang in there, and feel free to ask your question on the foums.

revenuee
Oct 23, 2003, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by ABG


I'm sure Mac OS X is great, but I am really surprised how much I am struggling. Given I had hoped to move our main desktop unit to a G5 in the next 6 months this isn't a great start.:(

I am trusting everyone here that the learning curve is going to be worth it!;) :D

Ya, switching is always hard for about the first few months, before you get comfortable in your OS, and everything you need is set up the way you want.. .desktop, file structure.

not to mention that a lot of controls are set up different, opening a new document , launching applications, even install and uninstall

As you've probably read in the last few posts, i to am having some trouple with OS X not working the way i want it too.

But i'm optimistic

ABG
Oct 23, 2003, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by revenuee
As you've probably read in the last few posts, i to am having some trouple with OS X not working the way i want it too.

But i'm optimistic

I'm spending more time searching old threads here than using the powerbook!:D

And you are so right that it's the different environment that gives you no comfort zone at first. Unlike you my biggest problems are around not having a right click button.

Patrick0brien - actually I may have under thunk it! i.e. I had overly high expectations that everything I tried would work first time (like the GPRS / bluetooth stuff).

Having used all sorts of computers over the past 20 years I'm beginning to have some empathy with people who aren't "computer literate".

Well - I wanted a change so I'd better get on with it:D

revenuee
Oct 23, 2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by ABG
I'm spending more time searching old threads here than using the powerbook!:D

And you are so right that it's the different environment that gives you no comfort zone at first. Unlike you my biggest problems are around not having a right click button.


i know what you mean about searching old threads -

if your really concerned about the single button, just get a logitech multibutton... but i found controlling clicking became intuitive.. .and i would do it on PC machine and wonder why everything would get screwed up

sigh... i wish the mouse was my problem

SCSI CAN BURN

MacBandit
Oct 23, 2003, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by ABG
.....The battery life seems poor (1:40 showing after fully charging?)....

Ignore the battery life meter. It means nothing. Time your battery life for yourself and you should find you have more battery life than the meter says. Just like many cars have a couple extra gallons in the tank. Panther seems to fix this problem and add battery life in the process.


To all of you with teething problems with OSX. Stick to it. At first I installed OSX on my machine and played with it here and there but always used OS9. When 10.2 came out I forced myself to use OSX all the time. After about 6 months there was no going back. I was faster and more productive with OSX and it WAS much more stable. Trust me you will love OSX if given a chance to grow accustom to it.

ABG
Oct 23, 2003, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Ignore the battery life meter. It means nothing. Time your battery life for yourself and you should find you have more battery life than the meter says.

That's good - I had a Sony Vaio a few years ago which would start out at 3:50 and within 10 minutes had halved! I'd rather the PB erred on the side of caution.

fourthtunz
Oct 23, 2003, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by ABG
I Unlike you my biggest problems are around not having a right click button.


Yeah OS X is different even for us Mac users but is really nice once you get used to it.
Everything I've plugged into my Mac works without installing drivers I love it!
You can buy a 2 button mouse that will work fine with your Mac or just use the control key to get contextual menus,have fun:D
daniel

fourthtunz
Oct 23, 2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by revenuee
very much so...and honesty, i never had trouble with OS 9... i upgraded so that i can get newer software ie; FCP 4 from FPC 1.2... and so that i can play around with a little UNIX, but i'm not totally convinced that it was money well spent.

The only real advantage is that i found that in iMovie, rather then marking in and out points like in FCP, i just let it play through and the software slices the clips for me. I find it a real time saver on events video work where i have lots of short clips that need trimming.

but other then that, i acctually have problems... vs. non running under OS 9

I like imovie for the quick stuff too, very nice!
Nothing like fcp4 and the new tools though:D
Which OS are you using? 10.2.6 was very stable, 10.2.8 seems to be good but I haven't used it for editing yet.
Not to say that you haven't done it but make sure that you have all of the updates from apple,and run repair permissions. With all of the new software and os updates its easy to get out of date,peace
daniel

revenuee
Oct 23, 2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by fourthtunz
I like imovie for the quick stuff too, very nice!
Nothing like fcp4 and the new tools though:D
Which OS are you using? 10.2.6 was very stable, 10.2.8 seems to be good but I haven't used it for editing yet.
Not to say that you haven't done it but make sure that you have all of the updates from apple,and run repair permissions. With all of the new software and os updates its easy to get out of date,peace
daniel

Ya i'm definatly loving FCP 4 aspecially since i just about tripled my RAM before i installed it... LOL

I'm running 10.2.8, and it's not the OS its my hardware under the OS... thats why i'm frustrated - although i find it to lag a little... and i've turned off most/all of the animated window effects - my 400 mhz might be a little slow for it too... the 832 MB ram is helping but still...

Mostly problems are SCSI drive not mounting, and it seems like i get dropped frames when i do capture to it... also i got a FIREWIRE drive at the same time that i updated to OS 10 and FCP 4, and the capture to it is terrible and i don't know how to fix it, but i don't think that is the OS...

stanmoonie
Oct 23, 2003, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by revenuee
What are you even talking about?

Oh wait, that is what this thread is originaly about... LOL ... we've moved so far away from the topic.

LOL... no need to name call though.. thats what arn and eyelikeheart are here for... haha

I posted to what was the topic in this thread, now if you can't stay on that topic thats not my problem right? What do you call a person who comes on a Mac forum site bashing Apple and does not have his facts even close to right? I really dont consider it name calling when he knew what he was doing.....

revenuee
Oct 23, 2003, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by stanmoonie
I posted to what was the topic in this thread, now if you can't stay on that topic thats not my problem right? What do you call a person who comes on a Mac forum site bashing Apple and does not have his facts even close to right? I really dont consider it name calling when he knew what he was doing.....

How many "LOL's" does a man need to put in order for people to realize he's being sarcastic - obviously i know what the topic is, it was just a joke - don't get your panties all tied in knot over it.

Second ... the computer that the dell was tested against was a dual 1.25 processor powermac, no one said it was a powerbook.

and third, it wasn't trolling because he didn't say anything bad, he opened it for discussion, if you had read the full thread you would notice that he himself said that he's deciding on a mac and will probably buy one at the end of the month (check page 7) - your name calling was unnecessary at this point in the discussion

MacBandit
Oct 23, 2003, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by revenuee
Ya i'm definatly loving FCP 4 aspecially since i just about tripled my RAM before i installed it... LOL

I'm running 10.2.8, and it's not the OS its my hardware under the OS... thats why i'm frustrated - although i find it to lag a little... and i've turned off most/all of the animated window effects - my 400 mhz might be a little slow for it too... the 832 MB ram is helping but still...

Mostly problems are SCSI drive not mounting, and it seems like i get dropped frames when i do capture to it... also i got a FIREWIRE drive at the same time that i updated to OS 10 and FCP 4, and the capture to it is terrible and i don't know how to fix it, but i don't think that is the OS...

It's highly likely that your video capture problem is due to your processor speed. Also the SCSI incompatibility is also probably due to the age of your hardware with OSX.

What machine exactly are you running?

revenuee
Oct 24, 2003, 01:44 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
It's highly likely that your video capture problem is due to your processor speed. Also the SCSI incompatibility is also probably due to the age of your hardware with OSX.

What machine exactly are you running?

G4 400 AGP (sawtooth)
832 MB ram
10 gig quantum drive
18 gig Seagate ultra-wide scsi connected via Orange Micro 940 UW scsi interface
80 gig Lacie 400 drive

the thing about the SCSI drive dropping frames is weird because it didn't happen under OS 9 - may just be my imagination about it dropping frames.

but capturing straight to the Lacie drive is awfull

MacBandit
Oct 24, 2003, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by revenuee
G4 400 AGP (sawtooth)
832 MB ram
10 gig quantum drive
18 gig Seagate ultra-wide scsi connected via Orange Micro 940 UW scsi interface
80 gig Lacie 400 drive

the thing about the SCSI drive dropping frames is weird because it didn't happen under OS 9 - may just be my imagination about it dropping frames.

but capturing straight to the Lacie drive is awfull

I would suspect your system just isn't fast enough to handle the throughput of converting the data coming from the incoming video and then processing it out back through the PCI bus to the external hard drive. The limitation is most likely in the system bus and system architecture though it could be processing power.

Apples implementation for 3rd party devices like SCSI don't seem to be very retroactive so I would suspect it's just a matter of having a legacy system (sawtooth) hardware.

revenuee
Oct 24, 2003, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
I would suspect your system just isn't fast enough to handle the throughput of converting the data coming from the incoming video and then processing it out back through the PCI bus to the external hard drive. The limitation is most likely in the system bus and system architecture though it could be processing power.

Apples implementation for 3rd party devices like SCSI don't seem to be very retroactive so I would suspect it's just a matter of having a legacy system (sawtooth) hardware.

hmm i see... well i've gotten by, through capturing to the system Drive and now the SCSI drive- yes it was my imagination i tried it in the mean time - and then dragging it over to the Firewire drive and simply editing from there, that isn't a problem it plays back fine in FCP

with the SCSI this is the problem... i downloaded the fireware and driver updates... when i install the driver up restart my system the drive mounts fine - but then when i restart again, the drive doesn't mount anymore - the only way to get it to work again is to delete the extension and reinstall the driver, and then restart - to avoid the hassle i just don't turn off my computer when i don't have to

one thing that i really like about my new OS is that the SCSI devices did not support sleep under OS 9, and now under OS 10 even when the drive is mounted the system goes to sleep... i got back the feature i lost 4 years ago... LOL

MacBandit
Oct 24, 2003, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by revenuee
hmm i see... well i've gotten by, through capturing to the system Drive and now the SCSI drive- yes it was my imagination i tried it in the mean time - and then dragging it over to the Firewire drive and simply editing from there, that isn't a problem it plays back fine in FCP

with the SCSI this is the problem... i downloaded the fireware and driver updates... when i install the driver up restart my system the drive mounts fine - but then when i restart again, the drive doesn't mount anymore - the only way to get it to work again is to delete the extension and reinstall the driver, and then restart - to avoid the hassle i just don't turn off my computer when i don't have to

one thing that i really like about my new OS is that the SCSI devices did not support sleep under OS 9, and now under OS 10 even when the drive is mounted the system goes to sleep... i got back the feature i lost 4 years ago... LOL

So your saying your SCSI drive will not mount automatically or your firewire drive?

If it's your SCSI drive try using Disc Utility. If it sees the drive it may be able to mount it. If it's the firewire drive try disconnecting the drive and reconnecting it. If that doesn't work try disconnecting before startup and then reconnecting once the system is completely booted.

MacFan26
Oct 24, 2003, 02:13 AM
Originally posted by irmongoose
I'm sorry, I have to interrupt. It's a Mac, short for Macintosh. The Mac, or a Mac. It doesn't stand for anything, and therefore should not be all capitalized as MAC.

Sorry, it's a little pet peeve of mine...



I hear you, that's a pet peeve of mine too. MAC doesn't mean anything unless you're referring to your MAC address, which PC's with Ethernet's have. :rolleyes:

Phil Of Mac
Oct 24, 2003, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by MacFan26
I hear you, that's a pet peeve of mine too. MAC doesn't mean anything unless you're referring to your MAC address, which PC's with Ethernet's have. :rolleyes:

Macs with Ethernet have MAC addresses too.

revenuee
Oct 24, 2003, 02:29 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
So your saying your SCSI drive will not mount automatically or your firewire drive?

If it's your SCSI drive try using Disc Utility. If it sees the drive it may be able to mount it. If it's the firewire drive try disconnecting the drive and reconnecting it. If that doesn't work try disconnecting before startup and then reconnecting once the system is completely booted.

its the scsi drive that won't mount after restart... and i tried disk utility and the disk doesn't even show there

MacBandit
Oct 24, 2003, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by revenuee
its the scsi drive that won't mount after restart... and i tried disk utility and the disk doesn't even show there

Is the SCSI drive properly terminated?

revenuee
Oct 24, 2003, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Is the SCSI drive properly terminated?

i'm going to be honest... i don't know what the means...

i mean it does mount but only after the iniitall restart after the driver install.. it's the consecutive restarts that don't work.. at which point i have to go into root delete the extension, reinstall the extension and then restart again, so that the drive will mount again

but ya.. no idea what SCSI termination is

Phil Of Mac
Oct 24, 2003, 02:42 AM
Originally posted by revenuee
but ya.. no idea what SCSI termination is

Every SCSI bus needs to be terminated at both sides so that the SCSI signals know when to stop and turn around, otherwise they just go out the end of the SCSI bus and disappear.

revenuee
Oct 24, 2003, 02:46 AM
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Every SCSI bus needs to be terminated at both sides so that the SCSI signals know when to stop and turn around, otherwise they just go out the end of the SCSI bus and disappear.

I'm gonna have to say that it should be done properly because i didn't install it, the tech at my apple dedicated (no windows - actually windows users are discriminated against there) reseller did the inital set up and i've only done the software upgrades, unless termination is done software side. either way, if it is hardware the only thing i touched was installed more RAM, nothing else was disconnected or touched...

MacBandit
Oct 24, 2003, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Every SCSI bus needs to be terminated at both sides so that the SCSI signals know when to stop and turn around, otherwise they just go out the end of the SCSI bus and disappear.

That's a good way of putting it. It's kind of like a loop. If there's nothing at the end of one set of wire to send the signal back down the other side the loop is broken. Is the disk still potentially readable without a terminator? Yes. Will it be reliable? Probably not.

If you don't know what a terminator is then I recommend reading up on it and you probably need to get one so that you can terminate that drive you have. It's the most likely reason it's not being recognized at startup.

MacBandit
Oct 24, 2003, 02:48 AM
Originally posted by revenuee
I'm gonna have to say that it should be done properly because i didn't install it, the tech at my apple dedicated (no windows - actually windows users are discriminated against there) reseller did the inital set up and i've only done the software upgrades, unless termination is done software side. either way, if it is hardware the only thing i touched was installed more RAM, nothing else was disconnected or touched...

If they installed it then I would be taking it back and complaining. Even if it use to work with OS9. OSX tends to be much more strict about standards. This is a good thing though because that's why it's much more reliable. It forces people to do things right rather than half shod.

revenuee
Oct 24, 2003, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
If they installed it then I would be taking it back and complaining.

but it worked fine until i updated to OS 10... i didn't have this problem under OS 9.. which is the system they set up

MacBandit
Oct 24, 2003, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by revenuee
but it worked fine until i updated to OS 10... i didn't have this problem under OS 9.. which is the system they set up

It shouldn't matter. In my opinion if there is the potential for a hardware incompatibility due to there installation it should be remedied by them no matter whether or not it worked in OS 9 it should still work in OS X. If it's not hardware maybe they will be able to explain why it doesn't work in X or even fix it.

Stojamow
Oct 24, 2003, 03:25 AM
HUMMM.....

First , I haven't got an answer to my copy - paste question with Mac so far... how it works?

Secondly , what happens if you have to reinstall your OS. With Windows you can always go to command mode (very familiar and comfortable for me as I started my computing with MS-DOS 3.1 and I found it VERYVERY stable after fighting with windows so I found myself playing with that old thing half the day !) but what do you do with a Mac ?!?

:confused:

revenuee
Oct 24, 2003, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Stojamow
HUMMM.....

First , I haven't got an answer to my copy - paste question with Mac so far... how it works?

Secondly , what happens if you have to reinstall your OS. With Windows you can always go to command mode (very familiar and comfortable for me as I started my computing with MS-DOS 3.1 and I found it VERYVERY stable after fighting with windows so I found myself playing with that old thing half the day !) but what do you do with a Mac ?!?

:confused:

I don't understand what you mean by copy and paste

and in regards to reinstalling OS... you just put the install CD into the optical Drive, restart and HOLD "C" that makes it start up from the CD, and then you just follow the instructions on screen.

revenuee
Oct 24, 2003, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
It shouldn't matter. In my opinion if there is the potential for a hardware incompatibility due to there installation it should be remedied by them no matter whether or not it worked in OS 9 it should still work in OS X. If it's not hardware maybe they will be able to explain why it doesn't work in X or even fix it.

well orange micro doesn't make firmware updates for the 940UW card under OS 10... the way i had to do it was to go to the Chip manufacture Advansys, update the drivers for the chip directly... this was the advice of orange micro, with a disclaimer that they don't really know if it will work, and they can't do anything about it if it doesn't

The reseller has no responsibility to make it work, unless i took the machine directly to them and had them update the OS for me... then it would be their problem.

MacBandit
Oct 24, 2003, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by revenuee
...............The reseller has no responsibility to make it work, unless i took the machine directly to them and had them update the OS for me... then it would be their problem.

Agreed but if they were a respectable place they would at least try.

Sounds like you already know the problem then. Maybe you just need to get yourself a new SCSI board that you know will work under OSX.


I'm not sure what you need to know about copy/paste. It's quite simple select what you want to copy be it a file or some text and either go to the edit menu and select copy or type Apple-C to paste it's Apple-X or go to them edit menu and chose paste.

revenuee
Oct 24, 2003, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Agreed but if they were a respectable place they would at least try.

Sounds like you already know the problem then. Maybe you just need to get yourself a new SCSI board that you know will work under OSX.




well i went down to my reseller and they gave me the same website the Orange Micro did, to check if the drivers work...

It works, but
Now i can't figure out how to get the drivers to keep working after a second restart... i mean i have a work around,
but i don't feel i should have to

i don't really know if want to invest money into a new SCSI card, sure the set up is inconvenient, but i need to budget... i'm torn between upgrading the processor, buying more ram, getting a new video card and second monitor, waiting for a G5 laptop, buying a new SLR (digital) body, buying some lenses for my current SLR ,or buying a new 3CCD DV cam vs the single CCD i have now.. LOL .. so much to buy, so little money

MacBandit
Oct 24, 2003, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by revenuee
well i went down to my reseller and they gave me the same website the Orange Micro did, to check if the drivers work...

It works, but
Now i can't figure out how to get the drivers to keep working after a second restart... i mean i have a work around,
but i don't feel i should have to

i don't really know if want to invest money into a new SCSI card, sure the set up is inconvenient, but i need to budget... i'm torn between upgrading the processor, buying more ram, getting a new video card and second monitor, waiting for a G5 laptop, buying a new SLR (digital) body, buying some lenses for my current SLR ,or buying a new 3CCD DV cam vs the single CCD i have now.. LOL .. so much to buy, so little money

I understand. Though the one thing you have there that can upgrade with you is a SCSI drive and SCSI card. Everything else you listed computer wise would be vastly improved simply by buying a newer computer be it used or new. I would save my money on the computer and just buy a new or newer one when your ready. The overall system will be so vastly improved you will not believe it.

Stojamow
Oct 25, 2003, 06:41 AM
FOR REVENUEE:

Thanks for trying to help me. Copy + Paste is one very very handy function in Windoze world. We can put it this way: you can fastly and quickly move&capture almost anything to almost anywhere.

Reinstalling... humm... how about if I want to empty my HD before installing or does the installing program offer the option ?!?

revenuee
Oct 25, 2003, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Stojamow
FOR REVENUEE:

Thanks for trying to help me. Copy + Paste is one very very handy function in Windoze world. We can put it this way: you can fastly and quickly move&capture almost anything to almost anywhere.

Reinstalling... humm... how about if I want to empty my HD before installing or does the installing program offer the option ?!?

you can copy + paste to your hearts desire on a mac, the short cuts are alittle different

apple + c vs. ctrl + c and

or you can control click and get the menu, or you if you have a double button mouse just right click to get the menu, or click edit in the top bar and then get copy, go to where you want to go, click edit in the top bar and select paste

is that what you were looking for?

in regards to reinstall.. the CD gives you the option to ERASE then install, which will clear the drive then reinstall the OS, or you can just restore, where it keeps everything, just reinstalls the original files,

there is a third option, but i don't remember what it is off the top of my head, i never use it

Xapplimatic
Oct 25, 2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by Stojamow
[B]Because of the upgrade they provided to us I am not going to switch. I need my laptop now - not next year

= I just posted my order to Dell (M60 Notebook)

One word response? Nah, try one key: 'Dell-ete.'

Dellfinitively never ceases to amaze just how many Winteliacs troll around in MacRumors forums.. Aluminum-envy perhaps? Funnier still is how many actually try these fairly vague, imprecise and technically-challenged attacks on Apple's product offerings.. Maybe they should find another venue for taking out their Micro$oft-caused frustrations in life? I especially love it when they try to parade themselves as 'concerned' or 'ex'-Apple fans who think Apple has missed the ball, Apple is behind, Apple is crushed by the latest and greatest Dell wanna-be-Apple clone. Well, let's add that really tired old mantra that Apple is about to go bankrupt to the pile. LOL! Not last time I looked at their liquid-cash warchest (!) Companies in danger of flopping just don't buy up 4 other companies in the current year.

It's not even relevant to compare last-year's Apple desktop to a current Dell luggable since the only dual g4s Apple has ever had (for SALE) were desktops. The dual mentioned wasn't even the fastest g4 Apple had. They are not even sold anymore except as a custom-built model with an older style motherboard (FireWire-A) just to prove the point. If you're gonna compare top Dell with top Apple, you need to compare today's G5s, not yesterday's G4s. Apple's release of G4 to consumer line notebooks proves that Apple has a G5 notebook ready. Apple always defines consumer from professional by a jump in processing power. In this case, they have opted to go ahead and invigorate their lower-end sales by giving G4s over to iBooks while they wait a few months for IBM to put out the lower-power G5 for laptops. It's all on IBM at this point, but 6 months is not a long wait at all for a generational processor jump to make it from desktops to notebooks. It's not a question of if -- nor when. IBM is on schedule, so is Apple.

I have a better question for the Dell "Dude." What about Microsoft not having any new versions of Windows for 2 more years! :P No scheduled release date even!! As of yesterday, Mac OS 10.3 came out... and by the time Windows 200XYZ finally squeezes out of Redmonds beurocracy, Mac OS will be yet another 2 point releases ahead.. Putting it fully 3 OS upgrades and two years behind Apple.

Windows Longhorn = AFAICT Vaporware.. And by the time a new version of Windows really does exist, it's existance will be completely pointless except for those mundane Microslop fans who have held onto this burning hope for finally a reliable and secure version of Windows that's compatible with all their previous anchientware. Have fun waiting.. I'll be using a reliable and secure OS on my Mac the whole time.. getting work done without the headaches, downtime, and hassels of Windows.

I should go into Dell forums and whine that it's Dell's fault for having such a lame entropy-based OS to put on their 'superior' (yet b'ugly) hardware. It will still be a security liability as was 98 as is XP. "Come on in..the virus zoo is open for biz! Use our office applications to trash your drive remotely. View a web page--get a free porn virus! All the fun of previous versions of Windoze and more!"

= I have placed my advanced order for the Aluminum PowerBook G5. After all, I wouldn't want to compromise on a backwards, bug-plagued OS just to satisfy my megahertz complex. I'll miss all those headaches. -GLADLY. And I have found a secure, consistantly updated, reliable, and reasonably backwards compatible OS today.. with OS 10.3 on my very nice satin paintless-finished G4 Alumibook.

patrick0brien
Oct 25, 2003, 02:37 PM
-Xapplimatic

So tell us how you really feel...

:D

Stojamow
Oct 27, 2003, 03:00 AM
REVENUEE:

Thank you very much for your help. That's what I was looking for...

Gap closed again !


TO Xapplimatic:

It is funny when people like you come to forum. You do not read the thread - perhaps because it is too long - but the message at the beginning of this threat is that I was very disappointed at the moment when I saw the details of the new albook series.

Even as I was able to analyze the rumors quite realistically as one of you points out I still hoped to see G5 soooo much in PB's during the time.

I later on apologised my behaviour and I am still looking for a Mac.

I do understand that you might have regularly PC guys visiting this forum and telling you that your computer is crap which is very annoying - isn't it?

But if you keep replying to people who you consider to be trolls you just feed them and help them carrying on to abuse you...

:)

patrick0brien
Oct 27, 2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Stojamow
REVENUEE:

Thank you very much for your help. That's what I was looking for...

Gap closed again !
:)

-Stojamow

you will find that the keyboard shortcuts on the Mac are a bit more robust than on Windows. The key semantic difference is that instead of using cntrl-"*", it's cmd, (or Apple symbol).

So the basics are still there. cmd-Z=Undo, cmd-X=Cut, cmd-c=Copy, cmd-v=Paste, cmd-S=Save, cmd-P=Print.

But Apple was the originator of these keyboard shortcuts, and one of the key evidences at the patent infringement trial in the mate '80's.

As a result of being the originators of this particular paradigm of keyboard shortcuts, there are far more, cmd-Q=Quit, cmd-W=Close Window.

And even more when you throw Option and Shift into the mix.

Stojamow
Oct 27, 2003, 02:38 PM
HUMM...

I though this will be past but it is not...

I bought the latest MACWORLD UK edition today where the latest powerbook series were reviewed and found myself with the old issue again. Should I go for 15" or 17" powerbook?

15" is more handy as it comes to the size of the case etc. but 17" will rock when you do video editing etc. I cannot see myself editing on the planes etc. so there is a real option to go for 17" and I read from some thread in this forum that 17" fits perfectly to the tray in aeroplane.

HUMMM.....

:confused:

hulugu
Oct 27, 2003, 03:27 PM
First, most of the copy, paste, etc. functions worked only on the Mac originally, so just click on the edit tab on any program and it will show you the keyboard shotcuts. They're mostly the same as Windows with the Apple key standing in for ctrl.

As for the 15 vs. 17 option, the 15 IMHO offers the best value in weight, battery life and price compared to the 17. The 17 is very large, too large to use comfortably in many situations, the battery life isn't very good, and it weighs almost a pound more. Meanwhile, you could jam more memory in the 15 and get all the goodies and have a laptop you actually use on your lap.
I have one of the 15" TiBooks and it's absolutely the best computer I've ever owned.

Phil Of Mac
Oct 27, 2003, 03:37 PM
I use a 15" AlBook, but if you have a reason to upgrade to the 17" screen, then go ahead, I would have, but for the cost and the inability of such a beast to fit into my bag.

Tyler Durden
Oct 27, 2003, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Kiwi-Todd
Well bye bye.... I am a full time video pro and I measure performance and speed over the course of a day not in sporadic spurts.

What does this mean? -

I will usually go for up to three days of editing on my 17"PB and FCP without ever needing to close even the program.

I literally pulled my PB out of the box, installed FCP and was capturing in less than one hour.

I can truly multitask - run my business while editing, rendering or encoding.

I know there are faster PCs out there but I just don't care a hoot as every pro-sumer Wintel box I have edited on has been a nightmare to use!

Good luck to you in Dell Hell - keep us posted!!


I heard that. I am a full time editor and the only time I ever touch a pc is to check email in the post production office. Once in a while I use Avid MC on Windows 2000, if I'm working in house and that's what they use. It's ok, but seriously, use the Dell if you care about those benchmarks. But just do it, because you're going to convince few here to do the same.

TD

MacBandit
Oct 27, 2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by hulugu
First, most of the copy, paste, etc. functions worked only on the Mac originally, so just click on the edit tab on any program and it will show you the keyboard shotcuts. They're mostly the same as Windows with the Apple key standing in for ctrl.

As for the 15 vs. 17 option, the 15 IMHO offers the best value in weight, battery life and price compared to the 17. The 17 is very large, too large to use comfortably in many situations, the battery life isn't very good, and it weighs almost a pound more. Meanwhile, you could jam more memory in the 15 and get all the goodies and have a laptop you actually use on your lap.
I have one of the 15" TiBooks and it's absolutely the best computer I've ever owned.

For the price difference between the 15 and the 17 you can get yourself a real nice professional color correct 19" or larger CRT monitor. The 19" monitor alone will have a much higher resolution then the 17" on top of the fact that you can do video spanning with the 15" and use the 15" screen and the external monitor as one big desktop.

Phil Of Mac
Oct 27, 2003, 05:37 PM
The next question is if you really want a CRT. I don't want to start a CRT vs. LCD debate, but LCD's are the wave of the future here.

MacBandit
Oct 27, 2003, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
The next question is if you really want a CRT. I don't want to start a CRT vs. LCD debate, but LCD's are the wave of the future here.

For someone needing color accuracy and vast amount of screen real-estate (read resolution) the tried true and definitely much more mature CRT technology is still the way to go. Also for gamers the CRT is still the way to go. On top of all that you can get a higher resolution professional level color accuracy CRT for 1/4 the price of an equal LCD.

The only advantage of the LCD is desk space and power consumption and a static image for text based apps.

Phil Of Mac
Oct 27, 2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
For someone needing color accuracy and vast amount of screen real-estate (read resolution) the tried true and definitely much more mature CRT technology is still the way to go. Also for gamers the CRT is still the way to go. On top of all that you can get a higher resolution professional level color accuracy CRT for 1/4 the price of an equal LCD.

The only advantage of the LCD is desk space and power consumption and a static image for text based apps.

Sharpness and brightness! Pssh.

MacBandit
Oct 27, 2003, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Sharpness and brightness! Pssh.

Sharpness only for static text. Brightness is questionable the newest high end CRTs are blindingly bright.

Pssh? Are you steam powered or something?:p