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MacRumors
Nov 11, 2007, 04:11 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has been running a new Get A Mac ad during today's American football games.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/11/11/IMG_0016_300.jpg


The ad includes PC getting a consultant and once again touches on the trouble people have been having with Vista and references desires of some to downgrade to XP. The final screenshot is of an iMac with the Leopard background.

As of this posting, the ad has not been posted to Apple's site.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/11/11/new-get-a-mac-ad-pc-consultant/)



ventro
Nov 11, 2007, 04:15 PM
Mac should be wearing a pink T-shirt.

xUKHCx
Nov 11, 2007, 04:15 PM
It has been a long time since the last one, sort of hoped they had stopped them.

I would prefer it if they would just advertise the good points about Leopard rather than bash Vista.

Mac-Addict
Nov 11, 2007, 04:16 PM
Oh Apple, Why go back to these ads! Make an advert showing people what you can actually do with Leopard like the iPhone ads. Not just stating how much you are better. Prove it!!!

dL.
Nov 11, 2007, 04:17 PM
Where's the ad on Apple site? I don't see it.

dL

Warbrain
Nov 11, 2007, 04:17 PM
Oh Apple, Why go back to these ads! Make an advert showing people what you can actually do with Leopard like the iPhone ads. Not just stating how much you are better. Prove it!!!

Except look at what the iPhone ads spurred: terrible iPod touch ads that are more like a seizure than informative.

tkidBOSTON
Nov 11, 2007, 04:20 PM
Where's the ad on Apple site? I don't see it.


Ahem...


As of this posting, the ad has not been posted to Apple's site.

desenso
Nov 11, 2007, 04:38 PM
Hmm.. lots of critics. I enjoy them, personally..

twoodcc
Nov 11, 2007, 04:38 PM
i always liked these ads, so i'm glad they made a new one. i would like to see leopard in there though

Small White Car
Nov 11, 2007, 04:39 PM
Oh Apple, Why go back to these ads! Make an advert showing people what you can actually do with Leopard like the iPhone ads. Not just stating how much you are better. Prove it!!!

Yeah, they did those for years. Mostly with iLife.

No one cared.

So now they have ads that everyone and their mother knows about, and you say "go back" to the ones that no one remembers? Can you name one? I remember the one with the baby being born and the one with the wedding on the island. I'm probably the only one, though. Can you name any of the others?

Face it, that kind of ad makes the public go all glassy-eyed and change the channel. The ONLY way that kind of software ad is interesting is if you're already a fan of the product being shown. In other words, it's a waste of time. The iPhone ads were a big exception because they showed off multi-touch. That's it. That's the only thing people were interested in seeing on TV. The rest was just noise to most people.

Eidorian
Nov 11, 2007, 04:40 PM
I was wondering where these suckers were.

GoodWatch
Nov 11, 2007, 04:42 PM
It has been a long time since the last one, sort of hoped they had stopped them.

I would prefer it if they would just advertise the good points about Leopard rather than bash Vista.

Yes. Sail on your own strengths, never belittle your opponent. OS X really doesnít need this at all. Apple isnít the underdog that it likes to be anymore. It is a multi billion-dollar corporation. Donít act like you are still operating from a garage, it doesnít suit you.

JNB
Nov 11, 2007, 04:44 PM
Except look at what the iPhone ads spurred: terrible iPod touch ads that are more like a seizure than informative.

The latest Touch ad was created by fan/user Nick Haley. Chiat/Day got hold of him and reproduced it professionally, but identically to his original.

dL.
Nov 11, 2007, 04:44 PM
Oh whoops my bad.

dL

suneohair
Nov 11, 2007, 04:45 PM
Hmm. Considering there are a good number of people who want to go back to Tiger... sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. :rolleyes:

FireArse
Nov 11, 2007, 04:46 PM
May I add, that I too enjoy watching these. They are a great series of adverts that bring a smile to people's faces, whether they've switched or not. I've seen it with my own eyes!

Now lets see them online Apple!

F

Baron58
Nov 11, 2007, 04:47 PM
Can you name one?

Ellen Feiss :D

Will_reed
Nov 11, 2007, 04:48 PM
I can't wait to see this one, I couldn't care less how many pissy PC users complain these commercials are classics now.

rosh325
Nov 11, 2007, 04:55 PM
In terms of Vista bashing, just look at how windows machines are shown on a network. Blue screens of death, so it's not like this is suddenly strange.

BlakTornado
Nov 11, 2007, 04:56 PM
Hmm. Considering there are a good number of people who want to go back to Tiger... sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. :rolleyes:

I was going to say :P

CJD2112
Nov 11, 2007, 05:01 PM
I was going to say :P

Working at Apple, I don't know one customer who wants to go back to Tiger. Keep in mind, people don't go online to post compliments, they typically make complaints. That fact alone isn't representative of the overall reaction to any particular product (in this case Leopard). Most of the customers (actually, in my case all of my customers) LOVE Leopard over Tiger, especially the PPC users who have noticed a double in speed increase.

Leopard installed fine on my Mac Pro. No complaints here. Vista on my slave drive, well, that's another story.

cohibadad
Nov 11, 2007, 05:02 PM
Hmm. Considering there are a good number of people who want to go back to Tiger... sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. :rolleyes:

MacRumors should post a poll asking this question.

kresh
Nov 11, 2007, 05:07 PM
Most of the customers (actually, in my case all of my customers) LOVE Leopard over Tiger, especially the PPC users who have noticed a double in speed increase.



I'm a PPC (G4) user and I would love some of that double speed. :rolleyes:

Eraserhead
Nov 11, 2007, 05:08 PM
The latest Touch ad was created by fan/user Nick Haley. Chiat/Day got hold of him and reproduced it professionally, but identically to his original.

Have they actually shown it on TV yet though?

wyatt23
Nov 11, 2007, 05:08 PM
i'd like to see a link to this whole commercial.

also. i like these commercials. i like the vista bashing. only bc the PC side of me loves XP and hates vista.

in terms of Leopard users who want to go back to Tiger... give me a break. honestly tell me that there are as many Leopard users who want to roll back as there are Vista users. moot point. give leopard until 10.5.1 or 10.5.2. i personally didn't upgrade YET, bc of the perils involved in being first to upgrade.

grappler
Nov 11, 2007, 05:08 PM
Hmm, maybe they should fix the glitches in Leopard before putting out any more of these.

JNB
Nov 11, 2007, 05:11 PM
Have they actually shown it on TV yet though?

It was on Heroes or somesuch last week. The "pro" ad is on youtube now.

Tim117
Nov 11, 2007, 05:13 PM
Working at Apple, I don't know one customer who wants to go back to Tiger. Keep in mind, people don't go online to post compliments, they typically make complaints. That fact alone isn't representative of the overall reaction to any particular product (in this case Leopard). Most of the customers (actually, in my case all of my customers) LOVE Leopard over Tiger, especially the PPC users who have noticed a double in speed increase.

Leopard installed fine on my Mac Pro. No complaints here. Vista on my slave drive, well, that's another story.

You work at Apple? Shouldn't you be no where near these forums?

Small White Car
Nov 11, 2007, 05:14 PM
Ellen Feiss :D

Well, considering he was looking for ads that don't bash PCs...I don't think her little monologue counts! ;)

rdowns
Nov 11, 2007, 05:16 PM
Working at Apple... Most of the customers (actually, in my case all of my customers) LOVE Leopard over Tiger, especially the PPC users who have noticed a double in speed increase.


I'm a PPC (G4) user and I would love some of that double speed. :rolleyes:

I'm a PPC (G5) user and I would love some of that double speed too.

darksol360
Nov 11, 2007, 05:18 PM
Got me to switch after a one year hiatus from the web (babies... they do that, lol). Actually, I hope you guys don't mind the link, but I actually had a post about this in response to a Daring Fireball post about the Mac vs. PC ads...

http://macnewbtube.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/increase-in-mac-sales-ipod-mac-vs-pc-ad-campaign/

Disregard if disinterested... :) Btw, what game did the ad air on?

zwida
Nov 11, 2007, 05:20 PM
Have they actually shown it on TV yet though?

Yes, it's on frequently. Maybe I watch too much TV (yeah, OK, I do), but I've probably seen it a dozen times.

dopeytree
Nov 11, 2007, 05:22 PM
Hmm, maybe they should fix the glitches in Leopard before putting out any more of these.

me too im getting quite pissed off with apple, I've just bought a new macbook pro and installed leopar and now apperture won't work - supposedly one of their 'pro' apps well its not good enough i'm a photographer and i need it to work! the update did nothing!

instead of ripping it out of vista get of ur backsides and sort out leopards issues!

otherwise I'll go back to lightroom.


I hate to say it but i think the whole thign with the iphone is making them a bit too big headed, the iphone isn't perfect, nor is leopard! I do love apple tho

inkswamp
Nov 11, 2007, 05:27 PM
Oh Apple, Why go back to these ads! Make an advert showing people what you can actually do with Leopard like the iPhone ads. Not just stating how much you are better. Prove it!!!

Gees, I get so tired of hearing people say this, so pardon me for the all-caps, but...

APPLE ALREADY TRIED THAT AND IT DIDN'T WORK.

Remember the ads with the guy on the airplane? There were others like that too and many, many more before where Apple tried to show why the Mac was better and there isn't a shred of evidence that such an approach ever made a dent in the Mac market share. In fact, those ads appear to have produced the opposite effect.

On the other hand, Mac sales have been steadily going up over the last couple years and the more they attack Windows and PCs, the better they seem to do. How can you claim the PC-and-Mac or the switcher ads were not the way to go when they are showing results?

Ads have to play down to the lowest common denominator. They have to be written for monkeys, couch surfers, the short-attention span MTV generation. They have to entertain, catch your interest and get people talking. Like it or not, these current ads do that. 30 seconds of showing how awesome stacks or Quick View is... well, I kinda doubt that's going to get the sort of reaction Apple's marketing people want.

Small White Car
Nov 11, 2007, 05:28 PM
me too im getting quite pissed off with apple, I've just bought a new macbook pro and installed leopar and now apperture won't work - supposedly one of their 'pro' apps well its not good enough i'm a photographer and i need it to work! the update did nothing!

No offense, but every "pro" I know would never dream of updating their work computer before the .1 update came out. I put Leopard on my laptop, but my work-computer never gets anything installed this quickly.

WorthBak
Nov 11, 2007, 05:29 PM
It is a multi billion-dollar corporation.

as it's been since the 80's...

Eraserhead
Nov 11, 2007, 05:31 PM
Yes, it's on frequently. Maybe I watch too much TV (yeah, OK, I do), but I've probably seen it a dozen times.

It was on Heroes or somesuch last week. The "pro" ad is on youtube now.

Yeah the "Pro" ad does seem a bit busy, I think killing the store, and possibly the photo/video section would have helped. I haven't seen it on TV as I like in the UK.

gwangung
Nov 11, 2007, 05:36 PM
Gees, I get so tired of hearing people say this, so pardon me for the all-caps, but...

APPLE ALREADY TRIED THAT AND IT DIDN'T WORK.

Remember the ads with the guy on the airplane? There were others like that too and many, many more before where Apple tried to show why the Mac was better and there isn't a shred of evidence that such an approach ever made a dent in the Mac market share. In fact, those ads appear to have produced the opposite effect.

On the other hand, Mac sales have been steadily going up over the last couple years and the more they attack Windows and PCs, the better they seem to do. How can you claim the PC-and-Mac or the switcher ads were not the way to go when they are showing results?

Ads have to play down to the lowest common denominator. They have to be written for monkeys, couch surfers, the short-attention span MTV generation. They have to entertain, catch your interest and get people talking. Like it or not, these current ads do that. 30 seconds of showing how awesome stacks or Quick View is... well, I kinda doubt that's going to get the sort of reaction Apple's marketing people want.

There are a lot of people here who watch a bunch of commercials and then declare themselves marketing experts.

theheyes
Nov 11, 2007, 05:40 PM
The Windows bashing ads arent to my taste but if they work, whatever, its a business.

The BSOD icons for Windows machines however... that I really dont like. Yeah, a joke is a joke, but make it an easter egg not a default icon on a final piece of software. The fact that the joke is as old as the internet and I havent seen a BSOD for a long time aside, its unprofessional.

inkswamp
Nov 11, 2007, 05:42 PM
There are a lot of people here who watch a bunch of commercials and then declare themselves marketing experts.

I get that feeling. My line of work has brought me into contact frequently with marketing people and I know how they think. The response to the Mac-vs.-PC ads Apple is running is right on target. When people rush to their favorite forums to declare how outraged they are or how arrogant Apple is, they forget one little thing: they have been motivated by a 30-second ad spot to use some of their personal time to carry on about it, to make noise about it, get others thinking about the product and company. That's all the marketing people want you to do. To be sure, the primary goal isn't to make people angry, but if that's the only way to get some people talking about the product or company, then that's good enough. I can guarantee you that there's not a single marketing professional on the planet who wouldn't take that as a success.

.michael
Nov 11, 2007, 05:45 PM
Have they actually shown it on TV yet though?




I've seen this commercial like a gazillion times.
Go to the apple website, then iPod+iTunes, and you'll see it somewhere around there.
I think this is the one your talking about...

inkswamp
Nov 11, 2007, 05:48 PM
The Windows bashing ads arent to my taste but if they work, whatever, its a business.

The BSOD icons for Windows machines however... that I really dont like. Yeah, a joke is a joke, but make it an easter egg not a default icon on a final piece of software. The fact that the joke is as old as the internet and I havent seen a BSOD for a long time aside, its unprofessional.

FWIW, I've seen BSODs as recently as a month ago. XP still has a lot of issues when connecting devices. XP's stability is only as good as the drivers you have to load. That's sort of unfortunate.

I don't find the BSOD icon in OS X to be unprofessional, but I don't like it either because it's so far out of whack with Apple's aesthetic, which is simple, non-distracting and tasteful. To put the image of a crashed Windows PC in there is a little like showing text icons with dog pee stains on it or rips on the edges. It's just tacky. It's not Apple's style.

briansolomon
Nov 11, 2007, 05:53 PM
Hmm. Considering there are a good number of people who want to go back to Tiger... sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. :rolleyes:

news to me...

mrweirdo
Nov 11, 2007, 05:54 PM
I guess this means microsoft can put the beach ball of death in windows 7 :D

OldSkoolNJ
Nov 11, 2007, 05:59 PM
I guess this means microsoft can put the beach ball of death in windows 7 :D

I personally think that would be funny as hell. They need to loosen the tie up a little. Maybe take some stabs when and if they can. I would give them back a little respect. :D

Kevin

BTW
Nov 11, 2007, 05:59 PM
It has been a long time since the last one, sort of hoped they had stopped them.

I would prefer it if they would just advertise the good points about Leopard rather than bash Vista.

Hopefully this is the last in the series as they are getting a bit long in the tooth. Leopard is out and needs it's own line of commercials.

inkswamp
Nov 11, 2007, 05:59 PM
Hmm. Considering there are a good number of people who want to go back to Tiger... sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. :rolleyes:

Huh? Just for the improvements in the Finder alone, I don't think you're going to find a lot of Mac users looking backward. I don't know of any.

MacFly123
Nov 11, 2007, 06:05 PM
Oh Apple, Why go back to these ads! Make an advert showing people what you can actually do with Leopard like the iPhone ads. Not just stating how much you are better. Prove it!!!

Amen! What they REALLY REALLY REALLY need to do (and it's pathetic that they haven't) is do just that and show off Leopard AND iLife '08... Now THAT would sell a LOT more Macs. They need to show the general public that Macs aren't just for designers, they are better for your simple, elegant digital life and all the things you want to do with a computer!

I like these ads and think they are funny, but I think it is time for them to end, and I seriously can't believe Apple hasn't shown off their OS and iLife in commercials before, it boggles my mind that they haven't :mad:

inkswamp
Nov 11, 2007, 06:06 PM
I guess this means microsoft can put the beach ball of death in windows 7 :D

They could although I think it's a little unseemly for the market leader to kick at the other, smaller competitors. Just makes them look like a bully. When Wendy's goes after McDonalds and Burger King with the "Where's the beef?" thing, that was just the little guy fighting for space. When Coke takes jabs at Pepsi, same thing. When Apple takes shots at MS, same thing.

However, if Apple were to start running ads taking shots at other mp3 players (where they are the market leader) I would be very disappointed. I think MS could run some anti-iPod ads however and it wouldn't look bad.

MacFly123
Nov 11, 2007, 06:06 PM
Except look at what the iPhone ads spurred: terrible iPod touch ads that are more like a seizure than informative.

I love the new iPod Touch ad that that kid did. It is cool and it shows what the product has and can really do. Now i do NOT like the new iPhone ads with the people.

mac-er
Nov 11, 2007, 06:07 PM
Huh? Just for the improvements in the Finder alone, I don't think you're going to find a lot of Mac users looking backward. I don't know of any.

Leopard has been been some pretty bad press in the blogsphere. Probably the worst ever since 10.0. http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=905

bluush
Nov 11, 2007, 06:08 PM
Yes. Sail on your own strengths, never belittle your opponent. OS X really doesnít need this at all. Apple isnít the underdog that it likes to be anymore. It is a multi billion-dollar corporation. Donít act like you are still operating from a garage, it doesnít suit you.

Spot on. Apple is in the same league as Ikea and Starbucks - a mega corporation who diligently focuses on presenting an image of being the 'hip underdog'. Apple is massive, which makes attack ads seem even more trivial.

Even my grandfather has an iPod. Enough with the cool hip guy vs dorky old guy. These are the most simplistic, stereotypical series of ads I've seen.

inkswamp
Nov 11, 2007, 06:09 PM
Amen! What they REALLY REALLY REALLY need to do (and it's pathetic that they haven't) is do just that and show off Leopard AND iLife '08... Now THAT would sell a LOT more Macs. They need to show the general public that Macs aren't just for designers, they are better for your simple, elegant digital life and all the things you want to do with a computer!

Your evidence that this would work is...? Can you cite an example from Apple's past where such an approach worked?

Every instance in Apple's history when they have tried to use their ad campaigns to highlight what was so great about the Mac has also brought along a decrease in Apple's market share. The current ads gong on the offensive against Windows has proven to work.

So, you think showing off iLife is going to sell Macs how? (Bear in mind, that this was already done once and it failed to move the Mac market share.)

inkswamp
Nov 11, 2007, 06:13 PM
Leopard has been been some pretty bad press in the blogsphere. Probably the worst ever since 10.0. http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=905

Heck, I've given it some bad press in the blogosphere myself. (http://blogs.bellinghamherald.com/index.php?blog=14&title=a_special_evening_with_leopard&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1) (Sorry to flog my own column, but I want to make the point that even I can write something bad about Leopard and still prefer it to Tiger, so that kind of opinion-mongering hardly matters in the long-run.) I write a tech column for the company I work for, but even given my bad experience, I'd say the Finder improvements outweigh almost any negatives people can come up with.

MacFly123
Nov 11, 2007, 06:14 PM
Yes, it's on frequently. Maybe I watch too much TV (yeah, OK, I do), but I've probably seen it a dozen times.

I hardly ever watch TV and I have seen it probably 20 times. Just watch the shows that are Apple's demographic, like Conan, or late evening prime time type shows.

s8film40
Nov 11, 2007, 06:20 PM
The Mac with his consultant.

MacFly123
Nov 11, 2007, 06:21 PM
Gees, I get so tired of hearing people say this, so pardon me for the all-caps, but...

APPLE ALREADY TRIED THAT AND IT DIDN'T WORK.

Remember the ads with the guy on the airplane? There were others like that too and many, many more before where Apple tried to show why the Mac was better and there isn't a shred of evidence that such an approach ever made a dent in the Mac market share. In fact, those ads appear to have produced the opposite effect.

On the other hand, Mac sales have been steadily going up over the last couple years and the more they attack Windows and PCs, the better they seem to do. How can you claim the PC-and-Mac or the switcher ads were not the way to go when they are showing results?

Ads have to play down to the lowest common denominator. They have to be written for monkeys, couch surfers, the short-attention span MTV generation. They have to entertain, catch your interest and get people talking. Like it or not, these current ads do that. 30 seconds of showing how awesome stacks or Quick View is... well, I kinda doubt that's going to get the sort of reaction Apple's marketing people want.

So then why is it that whenever I show people in real life little things about Macs like that, their eyes light up and they are amazed and say, "WOW... I'm gunna have to get a Mac next time", or "I want a Mac". This happens to me when I show people things about Macs ALL THE TIME. Now I hear what you are saying about the old ads, but I think today is different because of the trendiness and people really are taking a look now so I think those kinds of ads would grab attention and work. Maybe they could run the Mac vs. PC and some new Leopard & iLife '08 showcase ads simultaneously! But with how sick of PCs and Vista people are, now is the time I think!

RMD-
Nov 11, 2007, 06:22 PM
Spot on. Apple is in the same league as Ikea and Starbucks - a mega corporation who diligently focuses on presenting an image of being the 'hip underdog'. Apple is massive, which makes attack ads seem even more trivial.

Apple is massive? Than the PC-World is as huge as a whole galaxy! Apple is not even in the Top 5 of worldwide computer manufacturers.

If Macs ever reach 30% worldwide marketshare, than they are losing the underdog image.

psychofreak
Nov 11, 2007, 06:26 PM
how awesome stacks or Quick View is... well, I kinda doubt that's going to get the sort of reaction Apple's marketing people want.

Quick Look btw...

Exposť is awesome, definitely something that switches people, as is Dashboard...

MacFly123
Nov 11, 2007, 06:27 PM
Huh? Just for the improvements in the Finder alone, I don't think you're going to find a lot of Mac users looking backward. I don't know of any.

I'm in love with Leopard, and of the MANY people I know that have upgraded, I don't know ANY that don't love it as well.

bluush
Nov 11, 2007, 06:28 PM
Apple is massive? Than the PC-World is as huge as a whole galaxy! Apple is not even in the Top 5 of worldwide computer manufacturers.

If Macs ever reach 30% worldwide marketshare, than they are losing the underdog image.

Apple employs over 20,000 permanent and temporary workers worldwide and had worldwide annual sales in its fiscal year 2007 (ending September 29, 2007) of US $24.01 billion.

Yes, I would call that massive.

MacFly123
Nov 11, 2007, 06:35 PM
Your evidence that this would work is...? Can you cite an example from Apple's past where such an approach worked?

Every instance in Apple's history when they have tried to use their ad campaigns to highlight what was so great about the Mac has also brought along a decrease in Apple's market share. The current ads gong on the offensive against Windows has proven to work.

So, you think showing off iLife is going to sell Macs how? (Bear in mind, that this was already done once and it failed to move the Mac market share.)

Ya it was done once, a LONG time ago when the iPod and iPhone didn't exist and people didn't give a crap about Macs. Today is TOTALLY different with the halo of the iPod and iPhone people are REALLY looking at Macs when they buy a new computer now and EVERY TIME I show someone little things about Macs I have them wanting one as their next computer with about a minute, NO KIDDING.

RMD-
Nov 11, 2007, 06:35 PM
So then why is it that whenever I show people in real life little things about Macs like that, their eyes light up and they are amazed and say, "WOW... I'm gunna have to get a Mac next time", or "I want a Mac".

Same experience here. For that same reason i loved the iPhone commercials, because they showed the usage of a technical device and did not go the emotional way. (Which is easier to do, but as almost _all_ advertising is emotional, it doesn't stick.)

If I would be in charge of Apples advertising department, I would just send the "quick tips" as they are as tv commercials. ;)
http://www.apple.com/business/videotips/

At first it would be really, really nerdy, but It would also be so different and fresh, that it can work.

MacinDoc
Nov 11, 2007, 06:40 PM
Anyone have a link to the ad yet?

avkills
Nov 11, 2007, 06:46 PM
Working at Apple, I don't know one customer who wants to go back to Tiger. Keep in mind, people don't go online to post compliments, they typically make complaints. That fact alone isn't representative of the overall reaction to any particular product (in this case Leopard). Most of the customers (actually, in my case all of my customers) LOVE Leopard over Tiger, especially the PPC users who have noticed a double in speed increase.

Leopard installed fine on my Mac Pro. No complaints here. Vista on my slave drive, well, that's another story.

They must be feeding you a constant stream of kool-aid if you think Leopard is twice as fast as Tiger on PPC machines.

It is a bit faster; but no where near twice as fast.

Although I would be happy if Quartz Extreme actually worked 100% with my X800 and my 30" ACD at native resolution.

-mark

alana22
Nov 11, 2007, 06:51 PM
They must be feeding you a constant stream of kool-aid if you think Leopard is twice as fast as Tiger on PPC machines.

It is a bit faster; but no where near twice as fast.

Although I would be happy if Quartz Extreme actually worked 100% with my X800 and my 30" ACD at native resolution.

-mark

lol, what's kool aid?!? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field)

MacFly123
Nov 11, 2007, 06:53 PM
Here's an idea... Anyone seen the ads for ask.com lately???

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gfLT5k4kpP4

I think if Apple did some ads like that and showed Leopard and iLife '08 highlights then contrasted it to PCs lol that would be hilarious especially since PCs don't even come with the programs Macs do to be able to do all the cool things they do.

Jdot
Nov 11, 2007, 06:54 PM
Except look at what the iPhone ads spurred: terrible iPod touch ads that are more like a seizure than informative.

I'm sorry that your an idiot but the 18 year old who made that now has his entire college education paid for and a free maxed out macbook pro kthx

alana22
Nov 11, 2007, 07:02 PM
I'm sorry that your an idiot but the 18 year old who made that now has his entire college education paid for and a free maxed out macbook pro kthx

Why are you calling him an idiot? That's quite a rude thing to say simply because you disagree with someone.

By the way, it's you're, not your.

infosprt
Nov 11, 2007, 07:08 PM
I would downgrade in a heart beat. Vista is pretty bad but the new Office is worse. Things that used to be simple to do - copy a range of files, use Word are now a challenge.

iPhil
Nov 11, 2007, 07:09 PM
They must be feeding you a constant stream of kool-aid if you think Leopard is twice as fast as Tiger on PPC machines.

It is a bit faster; but no where near twice as fast.

Although I would be happy if Quartz Extreme actually worked 100% with my X800 and my 30" ACD at native resolution.



lol, what's kool aid?!? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field)



The real kool aid (http://www.kraftfoods.com/koolaid/) :rolleyes:

Me1000
Nov 11, 2007, 07:11 PM
Apple posted 3 new ads on their site!

http://www.apple.com/getamac/

inkswamp
Nov 11, 2007, 07:11 PM
Same experience here. For that same reason i loved the iPhone commercials, because they showed the usage of a technical device and did not go the emotional way. (Which is easier to do, but as almost _all_ advertising is emotional, it doesn't stick.)

If I would be in charge of Apples advertising department, I would just send the "quick tips" as they are as tv commercials. ;)
http://www.apple.com/business/videotips/

At first it would be really, really nerdy, but It would also be so different and fresh, that it can work.

Apple is highlighting the iPhone's features in TV ads because it's so different from anything else out there that it's a selling point unto itself.

Unfortunately, you can't do that with the Mac ads because the Mac's interface is the same as Windows. Wait, don't react to that statement yet. I know for hardcore users, the UI differences are like night-and-day. But for average users, the users Apple targets with their ads, it's just a lot of windows and icons and menus and the same-old-same-old. If Apple's going to draw the interest of Windows users, they need to show what's compellingly different, why you won't want Windows. They need to point out what you don't get when you buy a Mac--viruses, annoyances, BSODs, weird system issues. They play on the annoyance that everyone who is forced to use Windows at work deal with every day.

Like I said, Apple has tried highlighting the good parts of the Mac. It just doesn't work. It's simply not enough to show off iLife (which has been done in Apple ads) or some interface feature and expect to get people interested.

MattyMac
Nov 11, 2007, 07:13 PM
I want to see it.

psychofreak
Nov 11, 2007, 07:14 PM
Apple posted 3 new ads on their site!

http://www.apple.com/getamac/

Too much Vista-bashing...get Exposť on our ads!

inkswamp
Nov 11, 2007, 07:15 PM
Ya it was done once, a LONG time ago when the iPod and iPhone didn't exist and people didn't give a crap about Macs.

Wrong. The fact that you don't even remember this ad, apparently, speaks volumes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7oLj6NW1jM

psychofreak
Nov 11, 2007, 07:17 PM
Wrong. The fact that you don't even remember this ad, apparently, speaks volumes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7oLj6NW1jM

Wow! Even Peter Petrelli uses Macs!

sebascrub
Nov 11, 2007, 07:17 PM
Apple posted 3 new ads on their site!

http://www.apple.com/getamac/

Ha! The podium one is pretty good. "Ask not what Vista can do for you, ask what you can buy for Vista!" Classic.

offwidafairies
Nov 11, 2007, 07:21 PM
i dont mind these ads. are they on tv in usa? or just on the net? when will i get to see this one? they mostly make me smile

synth3tik
Nov 11, 2007, 07:23 PM
Wrong. The fact that you don't even remember this ad, apparently, speaks volumes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7oLj6NW1jM

That was a classic Apple ad, now it did annoy the crap out of me, but it was a classic.

cohibadad
Nov 11, 2007, 07:24 PM
Leopard has been been some pretty bad press in the blogsphere. Probably the worst ever since 10.0. http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=905

lol. Mary Jo Foley

inkswamp
Nov 11, 2007, 07:25 PM
That was a classic Apple ad, now it did annoy the crap out of me, but it was a classic.

It's not really a bad ad, but (and this is my point) that approach doesn't get people talking about Macs the way these new ads do. Love 'em or hate 'em, these new ads work.

filman408
Nov 11, 2007, 07:25 PM
Apple employs over 20,000 permanent and temporary workers worldwide and had worldwide annual sales in its fiscal year 2007 (ending September 29, 2007) of US $24.01 billion.

Yes, I would call that massive.


Just for comparison, Disneyland employs ~20,000 and Walt Disney World employs ~60,000.
~80,000 for just those two resorts, not including anything else in the Disney company.

drbjames
Nov 11, 2007, 07:30 PM
Hey all, the ad, along with 2 other new ads, are on http://www.apple.com/getamac

theotherguy
Nov 11, 2007, 07:30 PM
They are called PR Mac, Podium, & Boxer.

http://www.apple.com/getamac/

... and i was beat. I do like how PC in Podium gestures using his bent front finger like President Clinton did/does.

justkidpro
Nov 11, 2007, 07:33 PM
I am glad apple is back to these ads...i dig them

cohibadad
Nov 11, 2007, 07:34 PM
Too much Vista-bashing...get Exposť on our ads!

agreed. Spaces + Expose = Wow every time I show someone. I hope those ads work for them, cuz they don't really work for me.

johnbro23
Nov 11, 2007, 07:37 PM
Just for comparison, Disneyland employs ~20,000 and Walt Disney World employs ~60,000.
~80,000 for just those two resorts, not including anything else in the Disney company.

Apple is more than twice as big as Disney, looking at their relative market caps, $144B vs $64B. Disney does have greater revenues ($34B vs $19B), but is a much lower margin business with lower growth prospects.

andy721
Nov 11, 2007, 07:37 PM
It has been a long time since the last one, sort of hoped they had stopped them.

I would prefer it if they would just advertise the good points about Leopard rather than bash Vista.

It's hard not to bash Vista if they throw things in your face about how vista runs. Try getting around it then try to ignore like it was an normal OS. Which clearly it's been having problems for everyone who has it on their PC.
Vista will soon be replaced by a new OS Soon.

inkswamp
Nov 11, 2007, 07:38 PM
lol. Mary Jo Foley

Credibility on this topic: 0.

She's awful. I've read her stuff before and she's just another Microsoft worshipper on ZDNet.

She backs up this dubious claim about Leopard with three links. One to a blog post talking about a friend's reaction (and how he's so unhappy with Leopard that he's switched back to Windows... uh-huh... in the space of a couple weeks, he's back on Windows? Why do I not buy this one?) Another links to an article about some possible bug in Time Machine (gosh, bugs in a brand new, major feature? Say it ain't so!) And another to a link about a long-standing known bug that Leopard hasn't addressed (so, let me get this one straight. This long-standing issue is suddenly the cause for OS X's demise even though it was in Tiger, Panther and Jaguar? Huh? Pardon me for not following the bouncing ball of Ms. Foley's logic.)

synth3tik
Nov 11, 2007, 07:41 PM
It's not really a bad ad, but (and this is my point) that approach doesn't get people talking about Macs the way these new ads do. Love 'em or hate 'em, these new ads work.

We are in agreement, yes they were good, annoying to me but good. Problem was they did not do any comparison. The new ads are for the most part entertaining and add that element of comparison to give people the idea that a Mac can replace a PC.

elppa
Nov 11, 2007, 07:43 PM
Notice how there is a white :apple: on the iMacs in the commercials, not a black one.

liverbomb88
Nov 11, 2007, 07:45 PM
IMHO, the ask.com ads are stupid...who is in control of the mouse, some cretin? If I ever use a search engine in that manner, please, someone just go ahead and shoot me.



Here's an idea... Anyone seen the ads for ask.com lately???

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gfLT5k4kpP4

I think if Apple did some ads like that and showed Leopard and iLife '08 highlights then contrasted it to PCs lol that would be hilarious especially since PCs don't even come with the programs Macs do to be able to do all the cool things they do.

BritinNC
Nov 11, 2007, 07:46 PM
I find this a little ironic since I have had to revert back to Tiger from Leopard. The number of problems were just piling up and I have to rely on the system for my business. Leopard will be great when its finished, but I suspect that it simply wasn't and all the features I was interested in didn't work for me. I have a very clean system and both my Mac Pro and my old Powerbook had issues with the upgrade, even when I did an erase and install after the original install. The final straw was when my business folder simply disappeared from finder (although it was still in the directory when I looked in terminal thankfully) after a time machine backup.

So its back to Tiger and I'll wait for a revision or two before going back to Leopard since I probably wasted about 20 hours on it all. Maybe I should have got a consultant.

Anyway, I like the ads generally, and I like being an early adopter of Apple stuff, but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!

MidiMonk
Nov 11, 2007, 07:48 PM
As it stands XP, works better than Tiger(SR MBP) when it comes to wireless connectivity. I refuse to pay for Leopard till this aggravating issue is resolved.Plus, this keyboard issue(first key not registering) is insulting.Apple needs to look in the mirror and get back to QA and quit being "comedians".

:mad:

Teddy's
Nov 11, 2007, 07:48 PM
Those are the whitest legs...lol!

Hodgman must work out. haha

HowEver
Nov 11, 2007, 07:56 PM
All Apple needs to do with these ads is keep their products top-of-mind with consumers.

The audience responding in this thread is most definitely not the intended audience for these commercials. Commenting here should immediately disqualify us from commenting.

chr1s60
Nov 11, 2007, 07:58 PM
A lot of people on here may not like these, but the bottom line is that Macs are continuing to sell at high numbers. Why should they change their entire campaign because some people don't like it or are tired of it? They shouldn't. If I was Apple, I wouldn't switch to a new campaign until Mac sales are down a lot.

extensor
Nov 11, 2007, 07:58 PM
instead of ripping it out of vista get of ur backsides and sort out leopards issues!


Hate to break it to you but there is not a magical Apple elf that does everything. The programmers can work on Leopard updates while the marketing people work on commercials. :rolleyes:

PhightinPhils26
Nov 11, 2007, 08:03 PM
these ads are great and make me laugh... I have a degree in IT and all my MS certs. sure apple may not need to belittle PC's but at least these ads are 100% on the money.....

Speaking of these ads... Remember the "bloated" one where they talk about all the trial software on PC's? Isn't dell advertising a PC without all trial software? pathetic that they have to advertise this now! ...just funny to me...

donlphi
Nov 11, 2007, 08:06 PM
Oh Apple, Why go back to these ads! Make an advert showing people what you can actually do with Leopard like the iPhone ads. Not just stating how much you are better. Prove it!!!

Yeah! GREAT IDEA! Maybe get some footage of Kevin Costner using his Apple computer. It just get's people talking about it.

It's like the old "Where's the beef?" commercial. The whole point is to get people talking about "Did you see the new ______ add?", not put people to sleep with lame details. They are a funny pair of guys with good chemistry. I don't think they need to make a TV show about it (ahem... Cavemen) :rolleyes:, but I think it's good stuff.

If you want details, go to the website or visit the Apple store.

corywoolf
Nov 11, 2007, 08:07 PM
Working at Apple, I don't know one customer who wants to go back to Tiger. Keep in mind, people don't go online to post compliments, they typically make complaints. That fact alone isn't representative of the overall reaction to any particular product (in this case Leopard). Most of the customers (actually, in my case all of my customers) LOVE Leopard over Tiger, especially the PPC users who have noticed a double in speed increase.

Leopard installed fine on my Mac Pro. No complaints here. Vista on my slave drive, well, that's another story.

I am pretty sure you can't post on these sites if you really work for Apple.

Frisco
Nov 11, 2007, 08:07 PM
Apple should be ashamed of themselves considering Vista is way more stable than Leopard.

I love Apple-well used to. Windows XP is by far the best OS on the market today.

I know all Apple nuts think Apple invented the best early OS, but is was Amiga a few months later that were the true innovaters.

It took Microsoft and Apple even longer to match what Amiga did in late 1984.

Good night!

cohibadad
Nov 11, 2007, 08:08 PM
Notice how there is a white :apple: on the iMacs in the commercials, not a black one.

nice catch. the original alu iMacs before changing to black. weird

extensor
Nov 11, 2007, 08:09 PM
So then why is it that whenever I show people in real life little things about Macs like that, their eyes light up and they are amazed and say, "WOW... I'm gunna have to get a Mac next time", or "I want a Mac". This happens to me when I show people things about Macs ALL THE TIME. Now I hear what you are saying about the old ads, but I think today is different because of the trendiness and people really are taking a look now so I think those kinds of ads would grab attention and work. Maybe they could run the Mac vs. PC and some new Leopard & iLife '08 showcase ads simultaneously! But with how sick of PCs and Vista people are, now is the time I think!

There are a few problems with your example...
1. The person you are showing the Mac to obviously wants to see what you have to show.
2. You are not limited to 30 seconds to impress them.

winterdude010
Nov 11, 2007, 08:10 PM
I like them personally.

psychofreak
Nov 11, 2007, 08:13 PM
nice catch. the original alu iMacs before changing to black. weird

How could you have a black apple with the Leopard background?

junker
Nov 11, 2007, 08:14 PM
Working at Apple, I don't know one customer who wants to go back to Tiger. Keep in mind, people don't go online to post compliments, they typically make complaints. That fact alone isn't representative of the overall reaction to any particular product (in this case Leopard). Most of the customers (actually, in my case all of my customers) LOVE Leopard over Tiger, especially the PPC users who have noticed a double in speed increase.

Leopard installed fine on my Mac Pro. No complaints here. Vista on my slave drive, well, that's another story.


Well then, let me be the first to tell you that I have returned to Tiger for MANY reasons.

Let me list a bit of my troubles for the casual viewer:

Here's my setup: PPC G5 Dual 2.3 ghz, 4.5 GB of RAM, 2 internal drives = 500gb, 1 external @ 500gb. All the RAM is from crucial and Apple - I've had it the RAM for over a year... so the freezes aren't related to old/bad RAM.

1 internal has Tiger the other Leopard (clean install). The external is for Time machine.

1. Several crashes (per session) of Safari
2. HUGE memory hog (here's the running programs: Finder, Safari, Firfox, ichat, itunes, iphoto, Dragthing, Entourage, ical.
a. Tiger - I would average 400-600 mb
b. Leopard - I run around 1800 mb
3. I've had a total system freeze (using MacPilot) whereby I had to hard restart.
4. While using spaces, I switch to a space where an app resides, only to not be able to bring up my last active window (not a frequent occurence -random.
5. I've had to restart a few times and when I did, I got a blue screen telling me to restart again!
6. Having my iphone plugged in when I start the computer - it takes 4-5 minutes before I am fully at desktop. (tiger is about 1 minute -these are general estimates)
7. Every time i restart in Leopard (not in Tiger), I lose my internet connection and have to restart my linksys wireless router (I'm wired in, my girlfriend is wireless)
8. Noticed not one "bit/byte" of speed increase so purported by the masses.
9. Horrible bandwidth hog in ichat video (yeah, I actually use it)
With that all said - I (personally) feel this is a SUPER DUPER STINKER!!! AND - I could be easily classified as a fanboi - check my sig and I've been on mac since day one of OS 9.1 with by beloved beige DT (gossamer) 266 mhz.

I was very excited by so much of this - spaces, time machine, new finder etc, etc. I tried to boot in tonight just to try again... I could never get on the web (after several router restarts) but Leopard just too beta for me.

I'll wait for the 260 mb 10.5.1 update before I venture deeper.

I know others who are backin' up a bit bacause of their issues as well. Apple better sort this crap out, or it is going to become fodder for the Vista vs. Leopard wars.

extensor
Nov 11, 2007, 08:19 PM
I find this a little ironic since I have had to revert back to Tiger from Leopard. The number of problems were just piling up and I have to rely on the system for my business. Leopard will be great when its finished, but I suspect that it simply wasn't and all the features I was interested in didn't work for me. I have a very clean system and both my Mac Pro and my old Powerbook had issues with the upgrade, even when I did an erase and install after the original install. The final straw was when my business folder simply disappeared from finder (although it was still in the directory when I looked in terminal thankfully) after a time machine backup.

So its back to Tiger and I'll wait for a revision or two before going back to Leopard since I probably wasted about 20 hours on it all. Maybe I should have got a consultant.

Anyway, I like the ads generally, and I like being an early adopter of Apple stuff, but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!

Why keep throwing consultant out there? There is no consultant in the commercials. :rolleyes:

jonnylink
Nov 11, 2007, 08:19 PM
The two "downgrade" ads do seem like a bit of a low blow, but at the same time, like Muhammad Ali once said, "it aint bragging if it's true"

ps. have folks seen that there is a site stealing from macrumors (http://q8mug.com/prime/) :eek: (and probably elsewhere)

inkswamp
Nov 11, 2007, 08:23 PM
Well then, let me be the first to tell you that I have returned to Tiger for MANY reasons.

Let me list a bit of my troubles for the casual viewer:

Here's my setup: PPC G5 Dual 2.3 ghz, 4.5 GB of RAM, 2 internal drives = 500gb, 1 external @ 500gb. All the RAM is from crucial and Apple - I've had it the RAM for over a year... so the freezes aren't related to old/bad RAM.

I just installed Leopard on a Dual 2.0Ghz G5 with *less* RAM than you have and I haven't had any of the issues you're talking about. As far as speed increases, the Finder is vastly improved. It's nice not to have the whole machine bog down when doing a heavy amount of network communication, so for me, that's a speed boost, in a sense.

One of the things you described sounded like a kernel panic which is usually caused by a hardware incompatibility. It's entirely likely that something in your machine or connected to it doesn't play well with Leopard. Sadly, that's one of those things that will happen with a major OS update. I would try again after Apple gets 10.5.1 out and see what happens.

coolant113
Nov 11, 2007, 08:24 PM
I dont know... but i really enjoyed these 3 new comercials... i really like them:apple::apple:

plaine300
Nov 11, 2007, 08:26 PM
how ironic, i just downgraded from Leopard. piece of unstable junk. i'm still a long way from switching, but apple has been letting me down a lot lately after a long run of quality.

queshy
Nov 11, 2007, 08:27 PM
the podium ad is nice, but if MSFT wanted to it could easily make fun of apple's very own BSOD that many of us experienced 2 weeks ago...

jonnylink
Nov 11, 2007, 08:28 PM
Apple should be ashamed of themselves considering Vista is way more stable than Leopard.I'd like to read a bit more on how you came to that conclusion. Leopard definitely isn't perfect and I think it needs so serious work before I recommend it to folks, but the underpinnings are far better than anything I've read or seen with Vista. I have had zero stability issues with Leopard, just some severe version x.0 itchiness.

Frisco
Nov 11, 2007, 08:29 PM
how ironic, i just downgraded from Leopard. piece of unstable junk. i'm still a long way from switching, but apple has been letting me down a lot lately after a long run of quality.

Leopard is aweful! I switched from Tiger to WinXP a few years back and haven't looked back.

cameronjpu
Nov 11, 2007, 08:29 PM
When Coke takes jabs at Pepsi, same thing. When Apple takes shots at MS, same thing.

Coke IS the market leader ;) Not that it matters, really.

PTA
Nov 11, 2007, 08:29 PM
Eh, I did not like any of the new comercials. They should notrely on bashing vista.

Also -

A podium is something you stand on while giving a speech.

A lectern is something you stand behind while giving a speech.

I thought at least Apple would get it right.

Taylor C
Nov 11, 2007, 08:29 PM
The Podium ad is hilarious. They're all really good.

extensor
Nov 11, 2007, 08:30 PM
Apple should be ashamed of themselves considering Vista is way more stable than Leopard.

I love Apple-well used to. Windows XP is by far the best OS on the market today.

I know all Apple nuts think Apple invented the best early OS, but is was Amiga a few months later that were the true innovaters.

It took Microsoft and Apple even longer to match what Amiga did in late 1984.

Good night!

Yup, the Amiga was soooo far ahead of its time. I have to disagree on XP being better then tiger tho.

cohibadad
Nov 11, 2007, 08:31 PM
How could you have a black apple with the Leopard background?

the :apple: on the bottom of the mac not the :apple: on the screen. it's like an easter egg ;)

notjustjay
Nov 11, 2007, 08:33 PM
"I switched back three weeks ago... MUCH happier now."

Hahahaha, that's great. :D

MattyMac
Nov 11, 2007, 08:35 PM
haha...nice! The best in my opinion is "Podium."

inkswamp
Nov 11, 2007, 08:37 PM
Coke IS the market leader ;) Not that it matters, really.

I didn't know that, but now that I think about it, it's usually Pepsi taking jabs at Coke so it's still a good example, even if I didn't plan it that way. :D

MacFly123
Nov 11, 2007, 08:38 PM
Wrong. The fact that you don't even remember this ad, apparently, speaks volumes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7oLj6NW1jM

Ok ya, but that is not at all what I'm thinking they should do. That doesn't really show any features at all. I agree, I think that commercial stinks.

dukeblue91
Nov 11, 2007, 08:47 PM
Well then, let me be the first to tell you that I have returned to Tiger for MANY reasons.

Let me list a bit of my troubles for the casual viewer:

Here's my setup: PPC G5 Dual 2.3 ghz, 4.5 GB of RAM, 2 internal drives = 500gb, 1 external @ 500gb. All the RAM is from crucial and Apple - I've had it the RAM for over a year... so the freezes aren't related to old/bad RAM.

1 internal has Tiger the other Leopard (clean install). The external is for Time machine.

1. Several crashes (per session) of Safari
2. HUGE memory hog (here's the running programs: Finder, Safari, Firfox, ichat, itunes, iphoto, Dragthing, Entourage, ical.
a. Tiger - I would average 400-600 mb
b. Leopard - I run around 1800 mb
3. I've had a total system freeze (using MacPilot) whereby I had to hard restart.
4. While using spaces, I switch to a space where an app resides, only to not be able to bring up my last active window (not a frequent occurence -random.
5. I've had to restart a few times and when I did, I got a blue screen telling me to restart again!
6. Having my iphone plugged in when I start the computer - it takes 4-5 minutes before I am fully at desktop. (tiger is about 1 minute -these are general estimates)
7. Every time i restart in Leopard (not in Tiger), I lose my internet connection and have to restart my linksys wireless router (I'm wired in, my girlfriend is wireless)
8. Noticed not one "bit/byte" of speed increase so purported by the masses.
9. Horrible bandwidth hog in ichat video (yeah, I actually use it)
With that all said - I (personally) feel this is a SUPER DUPER STINKER!!! AND - I could be easily classified as a fanboi - check my sig and I've been on mac since day one of OS 9.1 with by beloved beige DT (gossamer) 266 mhz.

I was very excited by so much of this - spaces, time machine, new finder etc, etc. I tried to boot in tonight just to try again... I could never get on the web (after several router restarts) but Leopard just too beta for me.

I'll wait for the 260 mb 10.5.1 update before I venture deeper.

I know others who are backin' up a bit bacause of their issues as well. Apple better sort this crap out, or it is going to become fodder for the Vista vs. Leopard wars.

You obviously have a hardware issue that comes out when running Leopard.
There are some programs that just don't work with leopard yet, wait till they're updated.
As far as the Linksys router goes I had the same problem with one under Tiger, it used to drive me nuts. I finally replaced it with an Airport Extreme and have not had a problem since.
I now have Leopard on 5 computers Intel and PPC and they are all running flawlessly.

If all these problems were an issue within Leopard they would replicate them selfs on all machines or at least on some specific ones.
But from what I have read here and on other sites that's not the case, so logic would dictate that there are some pieces of 3rd party software and hardware that are causing the problems.
Definitely worth looking at from that point of view before blaming or chucking the whole OS.

Anyway, just a thought.

MacFly123
Nov 11, 2007, 08:54 PM
There are a few problems with your example...
1. The person you are showing the Mac to obviously wants to see what you have to show.
2. You are not limited to 30 seconds to impress them.

Well believe it or not, that is not true... I have shown little things to people in my office that actually get annoyed with all the Mac vs. PC talk and had no interest in Macs and in less than 30 Seconds had them all wowed thank you :rolleyes:

OscarAlert
Nov 11, 2007, 08:55 PM
i dont even own a mac, *yet* waiting for some money lol im only 15 haha
and waiting for a new imac configuration sumtime in febuary perhaps??
Can anyone clearify?? please.

Anyways, i love these commercials, so do all my friends, every one at school tmrw is gonna be liike hey did u guys see the new mac commercials ahahha i can see it now

Great job apple:):apple:

extensor
Nov 11, 2007, 08:59 PM
Well believe it or not, that is not true... I have shown little things to people in my office that actually get annoyed with all the Mac vs. PC talk and had no interest in Macs and in less than 30 Seconds had them all wowed thank you :rolleyes:

You just proved point #1 where I said they are willing captives already. Try Popping up where someone is doing something else and wow them in 30 seconds. :D

And I find it hard to believe that prior to this thread you were timing yourself.

MacFly123
Nov 11, 2007, 08:59 PM
Well then, let me be the first to tell you that I have returned to Tiger for MANY reasons.

Let me list a bit of my troubles for the casual viewer:

Here's my setup: PPC G5 Dual 2.3 ghz, 4.5 GB of RAM, 2 internal drives = 500gb, 1 external @ 500gb. All the RAM is from crucial and Apple - I've had it the RAM for over a year... so the freezes aren't related to old/bad RAM.

1 internal has Tiger the other Leopard (clean install). The external is for Time machine.

1. Several crashes (per session) of Safari
2. HUGE memory hog (here's the running programs: Finder, Safari, Firfox, ichat, itunes, iphoto, Dragthing, Entourage, ical.
a. Tiger - I would average 400-600 mb
b. Leopard - I run around 1800 mb
3. I've had a total system freeze (using MacPilot) whereby I had to hard restart.
4. While using spaces, I switch to a space where an app resides, only to not be able to bring up my last active window (not a frequent occurence -random.
5. I've had to restart a few times and when I did, I got a blue screen telling me to restart again!
6. Having my iphone plugged in when I start the computer - it takes 4-5 minutes before I am fully at desktop. (tiger is about 1 minute -these are general estimates)
7. Every time i restart in Leopard (not in Tiger), I lose my internet connection and have to restart my linksys wireless router (I'm wired in, my girlfriend is wireless)
8. Noticed not one "bit/byte" of speed increase so purported by the masses.
9. Horrible bandwidth hog in ichat video (yeah, I actually use it)
With that all said - I (personally) feel this is a SUPER DUPER STINKER!!! AND - I could be easily classified as a fanboi - check my sig and I've been on mac since day one of OS 9.1 with by beloved beige DT (gossamer) 266 mhz.

I was very excited by so much of this - spaces, time machine, new finder etc, etc. I tried to boot in tonight just to try again... I could never get on the web (after several router restarts) but Leopard just too beta for me.

I'll wait for the 260 mb 10.5.1 update before I venture deeper.

I know others who are backin' up a bit bacause of their issues as well. Apple better sort this crap out, or it is going to become fodder for the Vista vs. Leopard wars.

I haven't seen a single one of the problems you list, and I have had a speed increase and am LOVING Leopard :)

Cleverboy
Nov 11, 2007, 09:02 PM
I love these ads, they're cute and funny and tell a nice, metaphorical story.

The very idea that the commercial were brought up and put to Jobs and Gates during the All Things D conference, should be a testament to their lasting and unmistakeable imprint on our culture (not to mention the Daily Show interviews with Gates and Hodgman). Inevitably some people hate them. I think the metaphors are spot on. I remember running into some goofiness with Vista security, and reading an article about the predicament with changing the security model and dealing with legacy apps. Immediately the commercial with the "security" guy came to mind. That's GOOD advertisement. It reinforced the terrible feeling I got, and made me that much more driven towards upgrading to Leopard and NOT Vista (and in all over ways remaining with Windows XP).

At the end of the day, I find geeky enjoyment in watching them.

Someone's probably already mentioned it, but as of 10:00 PM, Apple's put the new "PR Lady" ad up on the site.

http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

~ CB

StudioGuy
Nov 11, 2007, 09:03 PM
Glad to see a new batch of ads out, but they will make more sense once the vendors update my pro software (Digidesign, Waves, etc.) to be compatible with Leopard, and then I buy upgrades for the other stuff (Adobe CS, etc.) to Leopard-compatible.

And, I'd like to get my Canon all-in-one to scan like in Tiger too....

I expect the usual several months of compatibility wait. That's ok. I'm dual-booting Tiger & Leopard to play with Leopard for now.

But, still enjoyable ads though.

operator207
Nov 11, 2007, 09:03 PM
The two "downgrade" ads do seem like a bit of a low blow, but at the same time, like Muhammad Ali once said, "it aint bragging if it's true"

ps. have folks seen that there is a site stealing from macrumors (http://q8mug.com/prime/) :eek: (and probably elsewhere)

They are probably using an rss feed plugin for wordpress. This is pretty common, though the ones I have seen in use, have tags like "post from MacRumors" or some such.
I ran something like this a few weeks ago, though it was for personal use. I was going to run all my rss feeds from my news reader, and then I could comment on them if needed. It was not going to be for public consumption.

MacFly123
Nov 11, 2007, 09:09 PM
You just proved point #1 where I said they are willing captives already. Try Popping up where someone is doing something else and wow them in 30 seconds. :D

And I find it hard to believe that prior to this thread you were timing yourself.

It is amazing how you just know what happens in my life :rolleyes: Are you stalking me or something? I called out the girls names while they were doing something else (working) while they really had NO desire to watch my display and showed them a couple things. And I have an amazing sense of time. It was definitely less than 30 seconds.

Are you going to tell me again now what happened in my life, or are you done arguing? :rolleyes:

zephead
Nov 11, 2007, 09:17 PM
Haha, I love the Podium commercial! The campaigning for Vista and then he says, "I switched back to XP 3 weeks ago. Much happier." :D

cameronjpu
Nov 11, 2007, 09:24 PM
Here's an idea... Anyone seen the ads for ask.com lately???

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gfLT5k4kpP4

I think if Apple did some ads like that and showed Leopard and iLife '08 highlights then contrasted it to PCs lol that would be hilarious especially since PCs don't even come with the programs Macs do to be able to do all the cool things they do.

God those ads are terrible.

iJesus
Nov 11, 2007, 09:28 PM
Alright, this may be a very minor thing but,
in these new Mac ads the black apple logo is WHITE
and I know it may be the reflection
but the black logo looks like it's almost the same color as the aluminum.

Just me being anal I guess.

puckhead193
Nov 11, 2007, 09:35 PM
i liked the podium one....
i was just wondering that they haven't done a new series of these ads in a while...

Master Atrus
Nov 11, 2007, 09:36 PM
I've been using Tiger since day one, and I'm not saying that any OS is perfect, because they aren't, but I haven't had any of the issues that anyone else is complaining about. In fact ... I love it!

The only issue I had is that I have to dedicate an external hard drive to Time Machine (unless someone knows a setting I don't), but other than that it is a great OS.

As for Vista, I'm now using it under boot camp, just to see and I have to admit that it does look nice. But if you run it with less than an optimal set up, it looks terrible. An OS shouldn't behave that way. If it isn't an ideal computer it should at least look decent. Just my two cents.

- By the way, I'm excited to see I'm not a newbe after four years finally -:D

jonnylink
Nov 11, 2007, 09:39 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7oLj6NW1jM Hey, that's the guy form Heroes. Pretty bad commercial though.

They are probably using an rss feed plugin for wordpress. This is pretty common, though the ones I have seen in use, have tags like "post from MacRumors" or some such. Well, yeah, but without citing the source it's plagiarism (read: stealing). Without having read macrumors no one would know where the text is coming from, and in fact they'd think it was original content. The mechanism for the theft is kind of tangential to the fact I think.

Anyway, the commercials work. You don't have to like them— they are designed to do one thing, associate Mac with simplicity and common computer needs (sharing photos, making home videos, etc). It creates a promise that your life can be easier if you switch and that you'll be able to do things that you've wanted to do before while worrying less about the things you worry about with your computer now. Even if you don't like them it plants a seed and then the next time that Windows crashes in the middle of something important you'll remember that ad. Or when you click on the next security alert, or read an article about Dell selling computers with XP preloaded still. Like it or not those little seeds stick and as long as the commercial doesn't become *overwhelmingly* obnoxious it will work.

jawporta
Nov 11, 2007, 09:44 PM
Microsoft should do an Ad, Features of both iLife and Leopard are only for Intel Macs, Apple want's users to just buy a new computer...or Leopards cool features like iChat don't even work correctly, or Moving files from your finder to another HD will delete the file, people downgrading to Tiger.

Come on MS, fight back, maybe Apple will actually fix the problems before running new ads next time.

jackc
Nov 11, 2007, 09:47 PM
I still like "Genius" the best.

"On a scale of 1-10 how much do I loathe Mac?"
"11"
"Oooh, she's good... very good."

BritinNC
Nov 11, 2007, 09:48 PM
Why keep throwing consultant out there? There is no consultant in the commercials. :rolleyes:

Sorry, ads were not posted when I first made the comment. It's been changed to PR lady now, doesn't work with my comment anymore!

Glass house point still stands though, a number of people are having problems with Leopard, some like me have downgraded (or is it upgraded) back to Tiger. It doesn't surprise me that Leopard has its problems, OS's are complex, it's just that I have never experienced any problems before when first adopting a new Apple OS so I was surprised by how many issues I had. I just wouldn't make a commercial that points out my competitors flaws when I have them as well thats all.

Like I said, when its finished I think Leopard will be great. Commercials are funny by the way, in addition to being ironic, but I think that Apple may be losing the high ground with these ones.

Phormic
Nov 11, 2007, 09:49 PM
I would have thought that Apple's sales figures just might offer a hint as to whether this campaign works or not.

Besides. These ads made Bill Gates blow a fuse which also gets a thumbs up from me.

Cleverboy
Nov 11, 2007, 09:56 PM
i liked the podium one....
i was just wondering that they haven't done a new series of these ads in a while...Yeah, personally I like "Choose a Vista".

"Didn't you make this?"

That's the way I feel reading Vista product literature, where it doesn't quite know whether the Vista its referring to does or does NOT have the feature they're describing. It's pathetic. My feeling is "Get Ultimate" and decide whether you need certain features or not later on.

~ CB

LFrascogna
Nov 11, 2007, 10:19 PM
Yeah, take that, look how awesome Leopard is, whiz-bang...unless you have a 800Mhz Powerbook.

Actually, while it is getting a bit old, I disagree with everyone that Apple should just "show some features." So much of what makes Macs better can't be shown in 20 seconds. People say exposť, but if I'm a PC user I ask, "where is the task bar, can't I just click my tasks?" While the answer is obviously yes, both do the same thing, it is hard to convey to someone that a visual representation is much quicker than reading through labels to see what you want to switch to.

You can't really accurately convey the clean, simple, intuitive features that make Macs great in a commercial. That is what Apple stores do. So you target specific PC groups. People deciding to upgrade to Vista, people who have problems with their PCs, and people who are sick of viruses. These are the potential switchers. They are the one that need to hear that Macs don't have these problems. Just saying, "Hey, look how easy window switching is!" Isn't going to matter to someone who upgraded to Vista and it doesn't work with their printer.

It may come off as snide to a lot of people, even mac users. But for the millions of people who don't want to upgrade to Vista, it hits a perfect nerve.

Foxglove9
Nov 11, 2007, 10:43 PM
I like those commercials, especially the PR lady one. I find it funny about switching back to XP because there are so many Leopard early adopters who are complaining about going back to Tiger. I'm one of them, but holding out for an update before I officially change my mind.

iJawn108
Nov 11, 2007, 11:01 PM
:D I still love these

WannaGoMac
Nov 11, 2007, 11:01 PM
This one is STILL my favorite:

http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac/apple-getamac-security_480x376.mov

UnKel
Nov 11, 2007, 11:13 PM
This may have already been notice long ago but, I find that the
"PC Guy" bears resemblance to a young Bill Gates and
"Mac Guy" to a young Steve Jobs.

Very interesting.:rolleyes::apple:

henjin
Nov 11, 2007, 11:22 PM
Well actually Vista is better than Leopard. Dreamweaver CS3 cannot keep a connection with FTP. Vista version of Dreamweaver connects within seconds, so fast as to be unreal, downloads whole sites, something OSX versions cannot do.

I love the Mac, hate Leopard and really hate these adverts as it is rank stupidity to claim Window users can only do spread sheets.

It's lying of the worst kind and does the platform no favors when these adverts come on and some viewer is using his Dell to Skype, rip a Video to DVD and about to go online for networked gaming.

Fact is both Leopard and Vista have their detractors. Read the message boards about Leopard. It's not good.

Apple is looking so stupid at the moment.

BigJohno
Nov 11, 2007, 11:24 PM
Amen! What they REALLY REALLY REALLY need to do (and it's pathetic that they haven't) is do just that and show off Leopard AND iLife '08... Now THAT would sell a LOT more Macs. They need to show the general public that Macs aren't just for designers, they are better for your simple, elegant digital life and all the things you want to do with a computer!

I like these ads and think they are funny, but I think it is time for them to end, and I seriously can't believe Apple hasn't shown off their OS and iLife in commercials before, it boggles my mind that they haven't :mad:

I agree. I have showed so many people my mac and they go o well its only good for people who are in design, film, and photography. I have friends that just use their mac to do every day tasks. hmm.. Still love the ad. Vista does suck. I went back to xp on my VM.

inkswamp
Nov 11, 2007, 11:33 PM
Well actually Vista is better than Leopard. Dreamweaver CS3 cannot keep a connection with FTP. Vista version of Dreamweaver connects within seconds, so fast as to be unreal, downloads whole sites, something OSX versions cannot do.

The day we begin ranking the general well-being of an operating system based on its ability to run Dreamweaver is the day I hurl myself off the top of the nearest tall building.

shoelessone
Nov 11, 2007, 11:41 PM
watching these ads makes me wish I hadn't bought a Mac :(

In reality, XP/Vista have been so much more stable and problem free in my experiences. Given I'm a serious CS "power user", but still :(.

I bought a Mac because the ladies love photobooth and the photo effects ;)

brepublican
Nov 11, 2007, 11:53 PM
I'm a PPC (G5) user and I would love some of that double speed too.

PPC Users (and quite a few other with Intel machines) would also like that "transparent" menubar (which is actually translucent).

Well actually Vista is better than Leopard.

While I agree that Leopard is far from perfect, I dont really agree with you on this one. 10.5 def has its glitches and annoyances, and I'm really hoping Apple puts out that .1 update sooner than later...

It's really a case of the teapot calling the kettle black. But while, with a few exceptions, I mostly hate these ads, you cant argue against market data, and they seem to be working. So Apple would be wise to keep at it.

MacinDoc
Nov 11, 2007, 11:56 PM
So, any guesses about the percentage if Leopard adopters going back to Tiger, as opposed to the number of Vista adopters going back to XP?

And to the poster who wrote that XP was the best OS ever, I guess you haven't tried it on my office set-up. We have spent tens of thousands of dollars trying to get XP Server to run a database program on about 15 computers. The server hardware, RAID array and connections are all high-end. The server works reasonably well for an hour or two after rebooting, but then starts to seriously lag. The printer drivers never work properly, when they work at all. And if a document does print, you never know which printer it's going to come out of. Our support staff spend almost as much time trying to get the computers to work as they spend actually doing productive work. I absolutely loathe XP.

chambers7
Nov 11, 2007, 11:57 PM
FWIW, I've seen BSODs as recently as a month ago. XP still has a lot of issues when connecting devices. XP's stability is only as good as the drivers you have to load. That's sort of unfortunate.

I don't find the BSOD icon in OS X to be unprofessional, but I don't like it either because it's so far out of whack with Apple's aesthetic, which is simple, non-distracting and tasteful. To put the image of a crashed Windows PC in there is a little like showing text icons with dog pee stains on it or rips on the edges. It's just tacky. It's not Apple's style.

Where is the Blue screen of death (BSOD) icon that you guys are talking about? I'm really curious how you get this one to show up.

It's true that in life, you don't want to bash the opponent to make yourself better. However, this is what works, (obviously it works) and i applaud apple for it. these ads generate attention and so why wouldn't they use them?

Another thing (to continue my rant) i hate how everyone must add in their comments "Apple product x is far from perfect..." apple could invent a car that got 100 miles to the gallon and people would still complain that you have to put gas in it so it's far from perfect.

CalBoy
Nov 12, 2007, 12:00 AM
Apple is massive? Than the PC-World is as huge as a whole galaxy! Apple is not even in the Top 5 of worldwide computer manufacturers.

If Macs ever reach 30% worldwide marketshare, than they are losing the underdog image.

Being an underdog really has little to do with being a strong market competitor. Most consumers buy products and have brand loyalty for reasons other than whether the company is an underdog. In fact, an underdog reputation can be harmful because customers will perceive (mostly incorrectly) that the underdog will be unable to survive.

Furthermore, Apple is indeed massive. Its market cap now places it above IBM, which means that only Google and Microsoft outrank it in tech stocks. Its revenue and profit are also quite plump, and Apple has a mountain of cash from previous years.

Back to the ads. I didn't really care for any of them too much. The older ones were ok, but these recent ones have lost their touch.

shoelessone
Nov 12, 2007, 12:05 AM
So, any guesses about the percentage if Leopard adopters going back to Tiger, as opposed to the number of Vista adopters going back to XP?

And to the poster who wrote that XP was the best OS ever, I guess you haven't tried it on my office set-up. We have spent tens of thousands of dollars trying to get XP Server to run a database program on about 15 computers. The server hardware, RAID array and connections are all high-end. The server works reasonably well for an hour or two after rebooting, but then starts to seriously lag. The printer drivers never work properly, when they work at all. And if a document does print, you never know which printer it's going to come out of. Our support staff spend almost as much time trying to get the computers to work as they spend actually doing productive work. I absolutely loathe XP.

see, it's funny you talk about it like this.

You are talking about a fairly major IT opperation - try using OSX for such a setup. Our entire company (some 45,000 employees) runs on XP, and we spend millions and millions every year "fixing" computers, and random issues that come up. But we'd never would even consider using OSX because the feature set just wouldn't meet our requirments.

Keep in mind, I'm a firm OSX fanboy, but I'll always have love and respect for microsoft. I just don't really think you can compare a serious office/business setup to a computer running Leopard.

Durendal
Nov 12, 2007, 12:18 AM
Yeah, make no mention of people who got screwed by Leopard and had to downgrade to 10.4 again. Endless wireless issues such as dropped connections, slow connections, and refusal to connect on PPC and Intel Macs, anyone? How about the screwed up account permissions issue with an unknown user in the ACL and Finder crashes when you try to edit them? How about 10.5 Server sucking so bad that services refuse to work properly and it eventually stops booting for no reason (and on a fresh installation) when the hardware is fine? I expect to see some issues with upgrades, but nothing like this. These are huge problems that should NEVER, EVER have made it into the shipping product. There is no excuse whatsoever. Leopard Server is unbelievably buggy. It's not as bad as Vista, but I expect much better from Apple.

brepublican
Nov 12, 2007, 12:40 AM
Another thing (to continue my rant) i hate how everyone must add in their comments "Apple product x is far from perfect..." apple could invent a car that got 100 miles to the gallon and people would still complain that you have to put gas in it so it's far from perfect.

Quite a rant indeed, just wish it even started to make sense. Cos I mean, whats your point exactly??

Are you saying that 10.5 is perfect and Apple should stop there and not release any further updates? Cos that'd be an idiot and irresponsible statement to make. For someone to concede that Leopard is not perfect does not make one a moron, it merely lends credence to whatever else that person is going to say because its a fact (get ready for this): Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard is far from perfect :eek:

Yes. Believe it :apple:

chambers7
Nov 12, 2007, 12:42 AM
I just don't get it... why do people insist that Apple create commercials showing off all the features of Leopard. That is what the website and the store is for.

I say that because most people who would switch are those kind of people that would see you show off spaces and stacks and lots of other features and them sitting back there thinking, that would be nice, but i have to be able to type word documents still so a mac wouldn't work for me. FOR INSTANCE, i know a girl in my sociology class who has a mac but boots it into windows to use Micros*** word.

If some of you created commercials, people would still think macs are too complex to use. Apple has done the right thing. The commercials don't over complicate anything.

queshy
Nov 12, 2007, 12:47 AM
I just don't get it... why do people insist that Apple create commercials showing off all the features of Leopard. That is what the website and the store is for.

I say that because most people who would switch are those kind of people that would see you show off spaces and stacks and lots of other features and them sitting back there thinking, that would be nice, but i have to be able to type word documents still so a mac wouldn't work for me. FOR INSTANCE, i know a girl in my sociology class who has a mac but boots it into windows to use Micros*** word.

If some of you created commercials, people would still think macs are too complex to use. Apple has done the right thing. The commercials don't over complicate anything.

Exactly. Apple addresses the benefits of a mac on a more global scale: no viruses, intuitive, easy to use. The more detail they ever get into is "iLife". It really plants the seed of curiosity in the viewer. When they go into the apple store, they will be familiarized with the "essence" of the Mac, but they can actually try out and see the cool features in the store itself. Showing off the features in the commercial wouldn't do anything except confuse some users.

atl27426
Nov 12, 2007, 12:50 AM
Hate to break it to you but there is not a magical Apple elf that does everything. The programmers can work on Leopard updates while the marketing people work on commercials. :rolleyes:


Thats not the point. The point is don't bash someone else when you don't have your own ***** together.

So far this year

iMovie - Have to offer the older version when iLife 08 was released due to complaints.

iPhone - 200.00 price drop, yet more problems had to offer rebates.

iMac - Freezing issues can't even get a video driver fixed in three months.

iTouch - firmware problems, screen issues.

Leopard - Over two dozen patches expected in 10.5.1, thats a bit much if testing was done correctly.

So its not like Apple has had a lack of issues. The 'it just works' didn't really pan out this year.

Also OSx does not compete in an open market with Windows so its not even valid to say these two operating systesm compete, they don't.

Like someone else said they need to stop acting like they are working out of someones garage, and give up on the 1970's battle with MS.

Look good on your own merrits not by trying to make someone else look bad.

Tim117
Nov 12, 2007, 12:54 AM
I bought a Mac because the ladies love photobooth and the photo effects ;)

Heh yea

chambers7
Nov 12, 2007, 12:59 AM
Quite a rant indeed, just wish it even started to make sense. Cos I mean, whats your point exactly??

Are you saying that 10.5 is perfect and Apple should stop there and not release any further updates? Cos that'd be an idiot and irresponsible statement to make. For someone to concede that Leopard is not perfect does not make one a moron, it merely lends credence to whatever else that person is going to say because its a fact (get ready for this): Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard is far from perfect :eek:

Yes. Believe it :apple:

I think i made my point clear: people like to complain... and maybe i shouldn't read these forums because that is what a lot of posters do.

OSX is not perfect, but nothing will ever be perfect, so why do people need to say "This is far from perfect"? where does complaining get us anyway?

I think we should drop it here because we are both apple fans and fighting isn't any fun.

brepublican
Nov 12, 2007, 01:05 AM
I think i made my point clear: people like to complain... and maybe i shouldn't read these forums because that is what a lot of posters do.

OSX is not perfect, but nothing will ever be perfect, so why do people need to say "This is far from perfect"? where does complaining get us anyway?

I think we should drop it here because we are both apple fans and fighting isn't any fun.

Fair enough :o

PCMacUser
Nov 12, 2007, 01:06 AM
Hmm. Considering there are a good number of people who want to go back to Tiger... sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. :rolleyes:

BINGO!

extensor
Nov 12, 2007, 01:06 AM
It is amazing how you just know what happens in my life :rolleyes: Are you stalking me or something? I called out the girls names while they were doing something else (working) while they really had NO desire to watch my display and showed them a couple things. And I have an amazing sense of time. It was definitely less than 30 seconds.

Are you going to tell me again now what happened in my life, or are you done arguing? :rolleyes:

I'm sorry you thought I was arguing with you. And your amazing sense of time is a remarkable gift. :D

samh004
Nov 12, 2007, 01:06 AM
Just have to say that boxer ad is really lame.

chambers7
Nov 12, 2007, 01:13 AM
I seem to remember that when XP first released... when you connected your ethernet cable your computer would be infected with crud within 7 minutes... i used Vista several months after it came out and firefox crashed three times using it (and only it) with just two pages open. How could anyone say XP or vista is a better OS? I believe there isn't any point to stand on here.

$129 for Leopard Ultimate vs. $279 for Vista Ultimate. I've owned XP on a sweet computer. The OS still sucked. Vista wasn't much better.

Honestly, something leads me to believe these people who keep posting that XP or vista is better aren't even using Leopard. I have a feeling it is steve ballmer posting here. it has to be because it doesn't make logical sense.

extensor
Nov 12, 2007, 01:14 AM
Thats not the point. The point is don't bash someone else when you don't have your own ***** together.

So far this year

iMovie - Have to offer the older version when iLife 08 was released due to complaints.

iPhone - 200.00 price drop, yet more problems had to offer rebates.

iMac - Freezing issues can't even get a video driver fixed in three months.

iTouch - firmware problems, screen issues.

Leopard - Over two dozen patches expected in 10.5.1, thats a bit much if testing was done correctly.

So its not like Apple has had a lack of issues. The 'it just works' didn't really pan out this year.

Also OSx does not compete in an open market with Windows so its not even valid to say these two operating systesm compete, they don't.

Like someone else said they need to stop acting like they are working out of someones garage, and give up on the 1970's battle with MS.

Look good on your own merrits not by trying to make someone else look bad.

I was replying to this....
instead of ripping it out of vista get of ur backsides and sort out leopards issues!

Did you reply to the wrong post? :confused:

extensor
Nov 12, 2007, 01:16 AM
Well actually Vista is better than Leopard. Dreamweaver CS3 cannot keep a connection with FTP. Vista version of Dreamweaver connects within seconds, so fast as to be unreal, downloads whole sites, something OSX versions cannot do.

I love the Mac, hate Leopard and really hate these adverts as it is rank stupidity to claim Window users can only do spread sheets.

It's lying of the worst kind and does the platform no favors when these adverts come on and some viewer is using his Dell to Skype, rip a Video to DVD and about to go online for networked gaming.

Fact is both Leopard and Vista have their detractors. Read the message boards about Leopard. It's not good.

Apple is looking so stupid at the moment.

I agree. Leopard sucks so bad. Apple should close down the business and give the money to the shareholders. ;)

MikeTheC
Nov 12, 2007, 01:17 AM
Watched all three.

Really liked the Political one. Shows how absolutely hypocritical the general public is.

Apple nailed it, spot on, again.

offwidafairies
Nov 12, 2007, 01:18 AM
apple really shouldnt bag vista like that. im sure vista is crap, but these ads are a little over the top. everyone i know who uses vista hates it (except one - who is an it wizz) ... better to just show how simple leopard is :)

chambers7
Nov 12, 2007, 01:19 AM
Fair enough :o

thanks... i didn't mean to rant.. (or maybe i did.) thanks though.

i guess i just don't understand how some people couldn't absolutely fall in love with their mac. (I'm exaggerating a lil bit).

MikeTheC
Nov 12, 2007, 01:25 AM
atl27426:

The question ultimately becomes "How do you differentiate yourself if you can never reference your opponent in a negative way?"

If you cannot say why your opponent is not better than you, then you have already lost the war.

By that token, if someone cannot look at the totality that is the Windows user's experience and be able to say why that product is not better than Mac OS X, then they have no business working for Apple.

And to go one step further, if Apple can only do likewise, then Apple should fold up it's tent and go home.

I, for one, don't want to hear ten different sets of positives from ten different candidates, because at the end of the day I won't know any more about them than when they first opened their mouths. I need to know why the candidates each feel they should get my vote, and not their competitors.

extensor
Nov 12, 2007, 01:26 AM
Close-up of just browser, showing the PC site touting Apples Mac Book Pro as the fastest windows laptop.
Pull back slowly to see you are in windows Vista.
More pullback to see you are on a Mac Book Pro.
Then activate Spaces to go to the Leopard desktop.
"Insert Catch Phrase Here"

You Am I
Nov 12, 2007, 01:45 AM
They've some cheek slagging off Vista and saying people had to go back to XP. Leopard so messed up my machine, I couldn't even go back to Tiger. :mad:

My machine is now entering its second week in for repair, because the Apple Care Centre cannot cope with the volume of work caused by the Leopard launch. Apple, I hope this is not a sign of things to come.



ps These ads are getting so boring now.

inkswamp
Nov 12, 2007, 02:08 AM
Why does there seem to be such a strong correlation between the ignorance of someone's post and how recently they have joined MacRumors? Seems a lot of people joining just lately in 2007 have some ridiculous posts. This for example...

Thats not the point. The point is don't bash someone else when you don't have your own ***** together.

So far this year

[...silly complaints snipped...]

Look good on your own merrits not by trying to make someone else look bad.

Uh-huh. When writers begin writing columns begging Apple to drop Leopard and start over (as is happening with Vista right now) then you can pull that line of reasoning into it all. Until then, these veiled defenses of Microsoft are going to sound ludicrous.

iMovie - Have to offer the older version when iLife 08 was released due to complaints.

Oh, gosh. Apple made an older application freely available. Yeah, that's a nightmare. And IIRC, it wasn't because the new application sucked. It was because of older file compatibility.

iPhone - 200.00 price drop, yet more problems had to offer rebates.

Only in the whiniest corners of the Internet can someone spin a $200 price drop and a rebate for early adopters as a bad thing.

iMac - Freezing issues can't even get a video driver fixed in three months.

The issue hasn't been known to Apple for three months. And anyway, from what I've seen, MS and the PC side don't exactly have a stellar record when it comes to quick fixes for exactly this kind of issue.

iTouch - firmware problems, screen issues.

I follow Apple news and I have no idea what you're talking about. You weren't stretching real hard to come up with "problems" were you? This has that distinctly bottom-of-the-barrel sound to it.

Leopard - Over two dozen patches expected in 10.5.1, thats a bit much if testing was done correctly.

Wow. Apple fixing issues in a .0 release is suddenly a bad thing? We're barely three weeks out on Leopard and the first update is right around the corner. Hmm... meanwhile, Vista SP1 is coming out when? Oh, that's right. Nobody knows yet. Windows sites have been hammering on "late 2007" which is unbelievable. Gee, Vista's been out how long now and users are still waiting for that first round of fixes? And *that's* somehow comparable to what Apple does? You've gotta be kidding me.

I'm not usually keen on doing the MS-vs.-Apple comparisons, but your claim that Apple needs to get their act together compared to MS is demonstrably ridiculous.

ke2000
Nov 12, 2007, 02:28 AM
Dare I say Apple inc. is brainwashing us again.

jacg
Nov 12, 2007, 02:29 AM
It's really a case of the teapot calling the kettle black. But while, with a few exceptions, I mostly hate these ads, you cant argue against market data, and they seem to be working. So Apple would be wise to keep at it.

The teapot can call the kettle black without fear of hypocrisy because, unlike the pot or the kettle, the teapot is unlikely to have been suspended over an open fire.

We are all still cooking over open fires, yes? :)

Masquerade
Nov 12, 2007, 02:29 AM
Why does there seem to be such a strong correlation between the ignorance of someone's post and how recently they have joined MacRumors? Seems a lot of people joining just lately in 2007 have some ridiculous posts.
Uh-huh. When writers begin writing columns begging Apple to drop Leopard and start over (as is happening with Vista right now) then you can pull that line of reasoning into it all. Until then, these veiled defenses of Microsoft are going to sound ludicrous.
BLA
http://www.subwayknitter.com/images/ChewingSheep.jpg
Ey you! dont bash atl27426 and users at macrumors cause they point facts instead of macfanfiction... u macfanatic! also dont bash MS and PC world cause you said so I'm not usually keen on doing the MS-vs.-Apple comparisons, but your claim that Apple needs to get their act together compared to MS is demonstrably ridiculous.

Llywelyn
Nov 12, 2007, 02:29 AM
Okay guys, there's this thing called selection bias...

First of all, there has been more flack over Leopard in part because it basically outsold tiger's first month in a weekend. More users = more people pointing out glitches over and over and over again.

Second, you aren't as likely to hear (or, alternatively, remember hearing) about people's installations working perfectly. I've found a few minor glitches, I reported those that matter to Apple through their feedback and bug report web pages, but I've found absolutely nothing that has made me regret upgrading from Tiger. That's anecdotal, but so is everything else you are hearing here. Without hard stats on user satisfaction it is hard to say whether it is a major problem or just selection bias.

For example, take the iPhone. Particularly after its first launch there were frequent reports about something not working, registrations going poorly, 30 page bills, $1500 bills, the "iBrick" comments, etc. But looking at customer satisfaction studies (even those released fairly recently), the users on a whole a very satisfied (to a level that's very high for electronic products in general, and insanely high for a phone).

Basically it is hard to know for sure based off of chatter. Particularly when that chatter is self-propagating.

Yes, there are problems with this release. Some are worse than others. It is Apple's biggest software release in over 2 years and has been selling in huge numbers: we are going to see some problems. Some people--particularly those who have odd drivers, hardware configurations, etc--are more likely to have issues. Some are simply going to have the dice come up badly. Maybe I was simply lucky, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Leopard to others based off of my experience.

Finally, why are people blaming Apple for Adobe's software not working correctly?

Uragon
Nov 12, 2007, 02:38 AM
Anyone have a link to the ad yet?

http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

Personally, I think the ads are ok, its done by an advert company,

unlike some CEO guys who laugh at someones product, iPhone?, HAHAHAHAHA, Google Phone? hehehehehe :confused::rolleyes:

ok, I might be overdoing it

Uragon
Nov 12, 2007, 02:55 AM
i dont even own a mac, *yet* waiting for some money lol im only 15 haha
and waiting for a new imac configuration sumtime in febuary perhaps??
Can anyone clearify?? please.

Anyways, i love these commercials, so do all my friends, every one at school tmrw is gonna be liike hey did u guys see the new mac commercials ahahha i can see it now

Great job apple:):apple:

It is best to wait and see if any new product announcement at MWSF in January, moreso, Leopard 10.5.1 may be released by this time.

Same here, I like this ads too, they're fun....

mountainbiker
Nov 12, 2007, 03:19 AM
Don't forget to watch the similar British ones done by the guys from Peep Show

http://www.apple.com/uk/getamac/

Did you see the iPhone ad that was done by that guy on YouTube? Maybe some more of those ads (and my evil plan to rule the computing world will ... oops I've said too much).

Darkroom
Nov 12, 2007, 03:59 AM
oh nice! it's been a long time since a new mac vs. pc ad... i assumed they cancelled the series... but clearly they didn't... :D yaaaay!

e12a
Nov 12, 2007, 04:02 AM
whether or not you may like them they are relatively true.

My dad works as a mechanical engineer for a major corporation where they must complete mission critical projects on computers. Today I asked him whether or not they switched to vista. He laughed.

Interesting thing is back in the 90s (where macs looked just like any other computer) the company he worked for used macs, now they're all windows based PCs running XP.

billystlyes
Nov 12, 2007, 04:07 AM
I rolled back to Tiger. Leopard is pretty messy. Ok, not as messy as Vista, but messy.

inkswamp
Nov 12, 2007, 04:15 AM
Ey you! dont bash atl27426 and users at macrumors cause they point facts instead of macfanfiction... u macfanatic! also dont bash MS and PC world cause you said so

Masquerade
macrumors member

Join Date: May 2007

I rest my case. :rolleyes:

RMD-
Nov 12, 2007, 04:19 AM
Unfortunately, you can't do that with the Mac ads because the Mac's interface is the same as Windows. Wait, don't react to that statement yet. I know for hardcore users, the UI differences are like night-and-day. But for average users, the users Apple targets with their ads, it's just a lot of windows and icons and menus and the same-old-same-old.

That's true. I also have friends who made the switch and really like the Mac&PC campaign.

But if you look at the three new commercials you have to notice, that the Mac-Guy does nothing. He only stands there and asks "What are you doing, PC?" and then watches the funny PC-Show. John Hodgman gets all the attention. For an actor this is frustrating and I totally understand that Justin Long doesn't want to make the ad anymore.

I don't have an answer what Apple should do for their next campaign. They are kind of trapped: They can't advertise "look how good and decent our product is", no, they have to advertise "look how much better we are".

http://pulsar.esm.psu.edu/Faculty/Gray/graphics/movies/steamroller75i.mov

Edit:
About Leopard: It is a very good update with gazillions of minor improvements. And it is also less buggy than 10.4.0 was. I can't understand the backslash (apart from the transparent menu bar).

aliquis-
Nov 12, 2007, 04:50 AM
The irony of "it just works" below the video and then just a white box with no video above... in os x, using opera.

Edit: worked in safari. Boring videos thought, I would say all the older ones are better than these.

dernhelm
Nov 12, 2007, 05:41 AM
My favorite line: "Ask not what Vista can do for you - ask what you can buy for Vista!"

twoodcc
Nov 12, 2007, 05:42 AM
is that boxing one a new one?

jonnylink
Nov 12, 2007, 06:08 AM
Yeah, take that, look how awesome Leopard is, whiz-bang...unless you have a 800Mhz Powerbook. I'm sorry, were you born on some wonderful planet where computers that were released just over five years ago could run a brand new operating system? This planet must seem very cruel to you. :p

Gee, lets look at the computer Vista runs off of. And the printers that work with it. And wireless cards.... hmm

Tacitus
Nov 12, 2007, 06:16 AM
http://www.subwayknitter.com/images/ChewingSheep.jpg
Ey you! dont bash atl27426 and users at macrumors cause they point facts instead of macfanfiction... u macfanatic! also dont bash MS and PC world cause you said so

Why is it that the only riposte PC fans can come up with is something like PC users deal in facts and Mac users are fanboys. You people really need to get a life....

Mekgek
Nov 12, 2007, 06:45 AM
Kinda sad that Apple is still making these childish vista bashing commercials.

Apple should focus on its own strengths rather than Vista's weaknessess. Just show how great Leopard is. I am sure that will convince much more people to 'switch'

Still some of them are prettty funny :)

Swift
Nov 12, 2007, 06:47 AM
Oh Apple, Why go back to these ads! Make an advert showing people what you can actually do with Leopard like the iPhone ads. Not just stating how much you are better. Prove it!!!

They don't continue the series on a whim, you know. They do many, many studies and must have realized that they've been very effective, and that unhappiness with Vista is very high. If you've got the sales results that Apple's had during this year, why change?

Swift
Nov 12, 2007, 06:58 AM
I've been using XP in Boot Camp, and then in Parallels, and then in BootCamp AND in Parallels, depending on which side you boot up in, and I'll tell you the feature of the Mac OS that is the complete killer: no authentication. No 25-digit code read over the phone at you if you've run out of legal "installs," even if ALL those installs were eaten up by Betas of Parallels, etc. Anything that registers as a "hardware change" eats up another "install." This is the single most maddening thing about Windows. I bought a legal OEM copy for my Mac mini. I ran it on BootCamp. I've never moved it, I just used some Beta copies of VMWare and Parallels, which ate up all 5 installs. But I'm using it in the same place, same hard drive, all the time.

The Mac OS costs $129 for a single user. $199 for a family with up to 5 simultaneous installs. But they take you at your word. No serial numbers. God bless Apple!

joeshell383
Nov 12, 2007, 06:59 AM
Where is the Blue screen of death (BSOD) icon that you guys are talking about? I'm really curious how you get this one to show up.


Uh, you must not use a network with other computers very frequently. All PCs show up with the BSOD icon, whereas Macs show up with an ACD icon.

joeshell383
Nov 12, 2007, 07:02 AM
I like the new adds

They're not "adds" They're "ads".

Mekgek
Nov 12, 2007, 07:06 AM
They're not "adds." They're "ads".

He didn't write "adds.", he wrote "adds".

BenRoethig
Nov 12, 2007, 07:08 AM
Hmm, maybe they should fix the glitches in Leopard before putting out any more of these.

I agree. Look Leopard was late and is still kinda buggy especially in the install process. I never liked these arrogant little ads in the first place and I like them even less when the PC users have something they can counter with.

BenRoethig
Nov 12, 2007, 07:23 AM
First of all, there has been more flack over Leopard in part because it basically outsold tiger's first month in a weekend. More users = more people pointing out glitches over and over and over again.

I've used every version of OSX including the beta. The last time I saw the kinds of bugs Leopard has appear in an initial release was 10.0. It has nothing to do with the number of people upgrading. It has to do with Apple getting behind because of shifting everyone to the iPhone and then rushing to not have to delay Leopard again. They should have bit the bullet and released it at MWSF.

Finally, why are people blaming Apple for Adobe's software not working correctly?

Because it was the changes to the operating system that caused these programs not to work. Apple really should have worked with adobe to get patches out upon Leopard's release. It's really not in Apple's best interests to piss off the adobe professionals.

AdeFowler
Nov 12, 2007, 07:27 AM
It has been a long time since the last one, sort of hoped they had stopped them.

I would prefer it if they would just advertise the good points about Leopard rather than bash Vista.

My thoughts exactly.

Jdot
Nov 12, 2007, 07:52 AM
It's hard not to bash Vista if they throw things in your face about how vista runs. Try getting around it then try to ignore like it was an normal OS. Which clearly it's been having problems for everyone who has it on their PC.
Vista will soon be replaced by a new OS Soon.

Actually in my tech net subscription there is already a locked beta for Vista 2.0 i'm guessing they want to push it out before 2009

Jdot
Nov 12, 2007, 08:01 AM
the podium ad is nice, but if MSFT wanted to it could easily make fun of apple's very own BSOD that many of us experienced 2 weeks ago...

OKay that bsod was caused by 3rd party software microsoft's bsod's just happen when you plug in new hardware, exit a game, hit ctrl+alt+del, and/or because you own a dell. lolz

Aeolius
Nov 12, 2007, 08:14 AM
Enough with the Mac / PC commercials, already. I, for one, grew tired of them long ago. I seriously doubt these commercials will win new converts from the Windows side.

I concur with those who wish to see a commercial showing what a Mac can really do.

Let's start with iLife.

Perhaps show the story of a family returning from vacation. The race is on. Mom picks up her MacBook and sits on the front porch, using her wireless connection from the Airport Extreme, while uploading pics from her camera into iPhoto. Dad hooks the camcorder up to the Mac Pro in the home office, to edit clips in iMovie. Meanwhile, the kids use the family iMac to play with GarageBand while using iChat to video chat with grandma, who grows impatient waiting for pictures.

Meanwhile, mom updates her iWeb blog with photos, while dad puts his movies on the Apple TV in the living room. To be obnoxious, he uses the video as a background as he joins the iChat session.

bretm
Nov 12, 2007, 08:19 AM
My thoughts exactly.

Every other product on the planet compares itself to it's competitor but Mac isn't supposed to? Maybe they refer to the other products as "the competition" sometimes, but you always get the gist.

Anyway, both PC and Mac are perfectly capable machines that are light years ahead of the needs of most users. Generally, people that have used both extensively prefer Mac. But that's a tough sell. And why is it that they like Mac better? Is it the time machine eye candy? No, it's the ease of use of Mac, or the difficulties in Windows. Pointing out others problems is the quickest way to infer that you don't have problems. Without claiming you don't have problems. And if Microsoft makes a rebuttal ad, they actually look bad, because Apple is seen as the underdog. Who needs to respond to the underdog unless he has a point or is a potential threat? It works out for Apple either way. Press is press for them.

Personally I think the beauty of the Mac is the integration. The reason it works so well is because Apple makes the OS and the hardware AND most of the software like iLife, FCP, and Aperture as well as iWork. But imho it's a very lucky situation. Apple is very much "into" aesthetics and usability. I could go the other way. A company, perhaps MS, could care less about those things and you'd be using a machine that the integration works together beautifully, but the OS, software and hardware might be ugly and hard to use. If Apple were to really harp the idea that they make the hardware and software then I think it would be a turn off as they would sound a little "big brother-ish."

Fluffymuff
Nov 12, 2007, 08:43 AM
The latest Touch ad was created by fan/user Nick Haley. Chiat/Day got hold of him and reproduced it professionally, but identically to his original.

That was all staged. There was no Nick Haley. Brilliant idea. Hatched at a Chiat/Day cocktail party. And you bought it. Sucker!!!

Fluffymuff
Nov 12, 2007, 08:47 AM
BTW, I dig those new white (instead of the more ostentatious black) apple logos on the iMacs at the end of the ads. That's how I thought it should have been in the first place.

Teddy's
Nov 12, 2007, 09:11 AM
My ad:

Mac zealot: I love leopard soooooo much!
Vista guard: Mac zealot making glorious remarks, allow or deny?
PC zealot: deny! dammit!!!
Vista: please deny as administrator!
OK?

PC zealot and Mac zealot start a fight and later realized that they do different things: PC zealot makes spreadsheets and play games while Mac zealot creates videos and podcasts.

And they live happily thereafter...

weslobombs
Nov 12, 2007, 09:16 AM
Apple is massive? Than the PC-World is as huge as a whole galaxy! Apple is not even in the Top 5 of worldwide computer manufacturers.

If Macs ever reach 30% worldwide marketshare, than they are losing the underdog image.

WTF are you talking about?

Apple is the Third PC shipper in the US. I'm sure they make some type of list for worldwide.

plenty of people in here spouting **** they don't really know about, "offering up opinions like kittens, given them away" - isaac brock

Apple is very much still the underdog, however.

and IMHO, the other mac vs. pc ads were very funny and clever, but THESE new ones are TERRIBLE!!!

the dialogue is so bad! it looks like someone took the script for it and punched in a bunch of extra lines at the end of each one like "vista sucks (enter leopard plug here)"

its very cheap and very obvious. very dissapointing. doesn't even utilize John Hodgmans Funny Juice.

wisen up apple. time to hit them with the commercial that will show them why leopard rocks (and it DOES).

it will work much better this time, i gaurantee you.:apple:

ruckus
Nov 12, 2007, 09:28 AM
I'm glad apple is advertising their computers again. I was wondering where the initiative went after all of their iPhone advertising. They need to keep up this advertising momentum...

RealMcCoy
Nov 12, 2007, 09:28 AM
Always something to enjoy ... but I agree ... this is getting kinda old

BettyBad
Nov 12, 2007, 09:42 AM
That was all staged. There was no Nick Haley. Brilliant idea. Hatched at a Chiat/Day cocktail party. And you bought it. Sucker!!!


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/26/business/media/26appleweb.html?ex=1351137600&en=b987a520b69cfc59&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

Business / Media & Advertising
Studentís Ad Gets a Remake, and Makes the Big Time
By STUART ELLIOTT
Published: October 26, 2007
In a trend known as consumer-generated content, an 18-year-old student and Apple devotee was hired to make a television commercial for Appleís new iPod Touch.

ďI was sitting on the bus and I got this e-mail on my phone,Ē Mr. Haley, a native of Warwick, England, said in an interview yesterday from the University of Leeds, where he is a ďfresher,Ē or first-year student.

notjustjay
Nov 12, 2007, 09:44 AM
I still like "Genius" the best.

"On a scale of 1-10 how much do I loathe Mac?"
"11"
"Oooh, she's good... very good."

Yeah, I didn't actually like that one, though, because PC and Mac are clearly not bitter enemies... they don't loathe each other. At best PC has an "I'm all business" arrogance about him and at other times he's got an inferiority complex. But deep down, they're friends, and they both know it.

Jetson
Nov 12, 2007, 09:45 AM
...It's really a case of the teapot calling the kettle black...
When will our culture get past the use of blatantly racist phrases such as this?

Using the phrase implies agreement that there must be something wrong with being "black".
:apple:

ruckus
Nov 12, 2007, 09:50 AM
I'm sure this has already been said though, but I'm getting tired of the pop shots at vista. I'd rather these be good commercials of leopard standing on its own.

I'm far from a fan of vista, but this is like a lousy politician that just attacks the opponent rather than deals with issues. Its getting hard to take seriously.

How about a commercial actually showing the OS? Showing how easy it is to do stuff with? Showing compatibility, the most feared part of the switch?

onlymac
Nov 12, 2007, 09:51 AM
dont be such a politically correct plonker Jetson
the phrase is "pot calling the kettle black" and it refers to the blackening caused by the fire to the metal of the container where both are sitting on the same fire ie there is no difference as they are both charred by the fire

weslobombs
Nov 12, 2007, 09:54 AM
My ad:

Mac zealot: I love leopard soooooo much!
Vista guard: Mac zealot making glorious remarks, allow or deny?
PC zealot: deny! dammit!!!
Vista: please deny as administrator!
OK?

PC zealot and Mac zealot start a fight and later realized that they do different things: PC zealot makes spreadsheets and play games while Mac zealot creates videos and podcasts.

And they live happily thereafter...

will everyone please stop with this wasted, innacurate explanation?

FACE IT! Macs still do EVERYTHING better than PCs. Yes, even spreadsheets and games, even if they have to be running windows while they play them!

iWork is so much better than office, its ignorant to say anything else. its just too bad that our corporate infrastructures are built on microsoft's crappy software.

there is no happily ever after. Windows is just a ******** piece of software by virtue and principal. You can't be "a windows person", that means you are just a narrow minded twat who somehow is able to point out the typically illogical workflows and tasks of windows as their familiar proccesses, therefore making them "better" despite that obviously not being true and despite the fact that the same tasks are most likely much simpler in OS X.

i hate that logic so much. Being used to the way windows works is NOT an excuse to not want a mac.

that's like saying I'm used to having my rights trampled on by Bush so i'll just vote for him again.

and for those who say they will be loyal to windows just because they supposedly have "more control over there computer" and can "customize the interface" (again, both discredited! ie Terminal, Shapeshifter), that is not a valid way of telling other people that a PC is a better choice. Normal people want the computer/software company to keep that end solid for them in the background, neatly sealed under the hood so it doesn't get in the way. Sometimes messing with these micro-settings and nerd controls is mandatory to get something to work right in Windows, and coupled with the endless search for drivers, working on a PC makes me want to instantaneously PUKE. psuedo-features like that only matter to PC dorks like you- the Windows Loyalist! not to anyone that actually has real-world responsibilities and accomplishments other than upholding their legacy as an MMORPG character in an imaginary online universe.

PC/Microsoft loyalists. They really are a special breed of *******.

Long Live Mac. :apple:

Llywelyn
Nov 12, 2007, 09:57 AM
I've used every version of OSX including the beta. The last time I saw the kinds of bugs Leopard has appear in an initial release was 10.0. It has nothing to do with the number of people upgrading. It has to do with Apple getting behind because of shifting everyone to the iPhone and then rushing to not have to delay Leopard again. They should have bit the bullet and released it at MWSF.



I've used every version of OS X since the beta, generally upgrading immediately. I am also been bitten amazingly hard by .y releases in the past. Again, this is all anecdotal: many people seem to have no evidence of these bugs of which you speak, some do. How many cannot accurately be determined here.

This is also the most intricate and complex of their releases since 10.0. It has had the longest dev cycle, and has the most changes. It is not surprising that it has a higher raw number of bugs than previous releases.

Do you realize how horribly bad of a business decision it would have been to wait until MW? As someone else put it, people here seem to watch a bunch of commercials and declare themselves experts in marketing: Waiting the extra few months would have been a PR disaster in comparison (we'll have to wait to see if this hold's to be true, but it certainly seems so from the reviews thusfar).

As it is, the only place that I am even hearing a substantially negative opinion complete with cries for blood is... here. I see the odd negative review (mostly extremely positive with a handful of caveats like Siracusa's review, a few recommend waiting for 10.5.1, but in the aggregate positive).


Because it was the changes to the operating system that caused these programs not to work. Apple really should have worked with adobe to get patches out upon Leopard's release. It's really not in Apple's best interests to piss off the adobe professionals.


It is up to Adobe to keep their software updated, and if you depend on those apps it is up to you to ensure that they work before upgrading your operating system. I agree, it would be ideal if Apple upgrading the OS didn't cause bugs to appear in other pieces of software, however Adobe's software is huge, massively complex, ancient, and still uses carbon.

As you say, it also caters to professional users. If you depend on the software for your livelihood you should be waiting to hear how it performs, not upgrading immediately every time there is a new OS release.

Kwill
Nov 12, 2007, 10:04 AM
Hmm. Considering there are a good number of people who want to go back to Tiger... sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. :rolleyes:

I was sort of thinking the same thing. I am surprised Apple went there. Leopard lacks Classic, it has Adobe Acrobat incompatibilities and we still await some professional printer drivers that wont likely be available until early next year. My copy of Leopard is yet to be installed. Tiger will be around on some machines for years to come.

Antares
Nov 12, 2007, 10:06 AM
They have to be written for monkeys, couch surfers, the short-attention span MTV generation.

Well, "the MTV generation" was either last generation or two generations ago. This is now the YouTube generation. :)

I like these ads..but also agree that it's time to change things up. The "Think Different" campaign ran quite a bit longer, though, didn't it?

darthvedder81
Nov 12, 2007, 10:09 AM
Working at Apple, I don't know one customer who wants to go back to Tiger. Keep in mind, people don't go online to post compliments, they typically make complaints. That fact alone isn't representative of the overall reaction to any particular product (in this case Leopard). Most of the customers (actually, in my case all of my customers) LOVE Leopard over Tiger, especially the PPC users who have noticed a double in speed increase.

Leopard installed fine on my Mac Pro. No complaints here. Vista on my slave drive, well, that's another story.

I installed Leopard on my not-that-old-at-all 12" G4 Powerbook (1.5ghz/1.25gigs RAM) and it ran very very poorly. Went back to Tiger and the computer soars now! I'm not really angry about it though. Leopard is great on the Intel Macs and G5's.

kingtj
Nov 12, 2007, 10:18 AM
Apple is doing the right thing with this latest round of commercials. You have to strike while the iron is hot, as they say. Apple is in a really strong position right now, vs. their Microsoft OS competition - and it's a position they really haven't been in for the last decade or more. Their stock is worth a lot right now, their sales are up, their new OS was just released to very good reviews. It all comes at the same time the rest of the industry's sales are in a slump, the newest Microsoft OS is generally considered a failure, and many Windows users are disgruntled and wondering what alternatives they have.

Commercials are only 30 second chances to get someone's attention and make them consider your product. You can't really "educate" them on why your product is better in that short a time. You can show off one or two "gee whiz" features that have visual impact, at best. (That's what the iPhone ads try to do.) By contrast, you CAN run a series of commercials that people get familiar seeing and recognize as being ads for your company's products. Add a little humor, plus a promise you have a better solution than "brand X" the customer currently uses, and you can go a long way.


Yes. Sail on your own strengths, never belittle your opponent. OS X really doesnít need this at all. Apple isnít the underdog that it likes to be anymore. It is a multi billion-dollar corporation. Donít act like you are still operating from a garage, it doesnít suit you.

HLdan
Nov 12, 2007, 10:28 AM
Well believe it or not, that is not true... I have shown little things to people in my office that actually get annoyed with all the Mac vs. PC talk and had no interest in Macs and in less than 30 Seconds had them all wowed thank you :rolleyes:

Well that's really stupid if your office colleagues don't like a computer because the company's ads appear condescending to the competition. Your colleagues need to remove the stick up their butt.

Eric Piercey
Nov 12, 2007, 10:38 AM
I think this ad is brilliant. Businesses have IT departments to decide what OS will be used, and it's going to be MS for a good long while. Apple's target isn't office machines, it's people who work in offices that want something "smart" and "cool" and "easy" when they get home at the end of the day.

WannaGoMac
Nov 12, 2007, 10:41 AM
iWork is so much better than office, its ignorant to say anything else. its just too bad that our corporate infrastructures are built on microsoft's crappy software.


First, calm down.

Second, you are delusional if you think iWork is even close to MS Office for other than simple "change font type" tasks. iWork at this point would be best compared to MS WordPad -- which iWork clearly is superior.

iWork can't even compete against Corel Suite in terms of functionality for power users. For simple usage, sure iWork is fine. For example, anyone who uses Excel (or QuatroPro) for heavy number "crunching" chuckles at Numbers when comparing necessary functionality.

gauchogolfer
Nov 12, 2007, 10:41 AM
will everyone please stop with this wasted, innacurate explanation?

FACE IT! Macs still do EVERYTHING better than PCs. Yes, even spreadsheets and games, even if they have to be running windows while they play them!

iWork is so much better than office, its ignorant to say anything else. its just too bad that our corporate infrastructures are built on microsoft's crappy software.

I'm hardly a Windows fan, but this statement clearly needs refuting. Comparing iWork to Office (both of which I use regularly) isn't appropriate. Keynote is much better than Powerpoint, now that motion paths have been incorporated. Pages and Word are a wash for me; I prefer the look of Pages, as well as the way it handles graphics, though the speed when documents get large leaves something to be desired. We have some special requirements at work which take advantage of the bookmarks feature of Word to automatically generate documents with external .dll calls, which is admittedly pretty specialized.

The big difference is Excel vs. Numbers. Excel is clearly more mature, though I think Numbers is off to a pretty good start. Until the macro programming (or VBA for Excel) is more robust, as well as the ability to query external databases for data retrieval and analysis, Excel will remain de rigueur for sophisticated environments.

skyehill
Nov 12, 2007, 10:51 AM
I have Vista and I have Leopard. The only OS I had to downgrade from was Apple's piece of crap OS. Keyboard freezing all the time, poor performance. Awful. Back to Tiger until Apple fixes their crap. The irony of them ripping on Vista is just too funny considering how bad their new OS is. As far as touting "intuitive" software, that's a joke. The included multimedia software packages included in Vista blow iLife's crappy suite of software away. I like my Mac, but it's clearly the Wii of computing. Made for babies, grandmothers, and people that don't know a damn thing about computing.

dukeblue91
Nov 12, 2007, 11:26 AM
I like my Mac, but it's clearly the Wii of computing. Made for babies, grandmothers, and people that don't know a damn thing about computing.

So which one are you?
The baby or the person that doesn't know a damn thing about computers?
I'm guessing the later, after reading your post.

Either way I'm happy to hear that you do like your Wii, oops I meant to say Mac. :rolleyes:

BenRoethig
Nov 12, 2007, 11:37 AM
I have Vista and I have Leopard. The only OS I had to downgrade from was Apple's piece of crap OS. Keyboard freezing all the time, poor performance. Awful. Back to Tiger until Apple fixes their crap. The irony of them ripping on Vista is just too funny considering how bad their new OS is. As far as touting "intuitive" software, that's a joke. The included multimedia software packages included in Vista blow iLife's crappy suite of software away. I like my Mac, but it's clearly the Wii of computing. Made for babies, grandmothers, and people that don't know a damn thing about computing.

While I don't entirely agree with a lot of what you're saying, I can understand where you're coming from. To be honest, Apple is aiming its effort more and more at the "coffee house" crowd and less at the low to mid professional and higher end consumer markets that used to be their bread and butter.

notjustjay
Nov 12, 2007, 11:58 AM
FACE IT! Macs still do EVERYTHING better than PCs. ...
PC/Microsoft loyalists. They really are a special breed of *******.
Long Live Mac. :apple:

Wow. What was that we were just saying about pots and kettles?

Your post is about the worst possible way to argue that Windows and PC users are blind "loyalists".

I use Windows at work (and run xterms into Unix boxes) and Mac OS X at home. Both get the work done. Both work well. Neither are perfect by any stretch.

diogo
Nov 12, 2007, 12:22 PM
Check the print screen of the supposed "white :apple: " easter egg here:

http://www.diogopeixoto.com/2007/11/12/new-get-a-mac-tv-ad-is-bugged-or-not/

d_saum
Nov 12, 2007, 12:31 PM
When will our culture get past the use of blatantly racist phrases such as this?

Using the phrase implies agreement that there must be something wrong with being "black".
:apple:

When will certain people in our culture stop playing the race card? "Pot calling the kettle Black" has not ONE thing to do with race or implying that anything is wrong with its color. The ONLY thing that it implies is that someone/something is compared to someone/something that has similar characteristics.

idiot...


Back on Topic.. I thought I was at a mac site? I am truly surprised at all the negative feedback towards these commercials. I think they are great. There isn't enough time in a 30 second clip to show the features of Leopard AND hold peoples attention. It's MUCH easier to do what Apple is doing and get people to laugh while at the same time peaking their interest. Like another poster said, the Apple stores and the website are for showing off the features. The commercials only purpose is to get people curious and get them TO the website or a physical Apple store.

Humor Sells! (sex does too, but that really doesn't apply here.... although...... maybe Apple should loo...nevermind) :D

BlakTornado
Nov 12, 2007, 12:34 PM
Check the print screen of the supposed "white :apple: " easter egg here:

http://www.diogopeixoto.com/2007/11/12/new-get-a-mac-tv-ad-is-bugged-or-not/

I think it was a graphical slip up :P

Doubt it's a new iMac model. Why would Apple include a white Apple when the black one looks so great with the rest of the computer? It just sticks out like a sore thumb.

I think one of the graphic designers just got mixed up.

Jetson
Nov 12, 2007, 12:44 PM
dont be such a politically correct plonker Jetson
the phrase is "pot calling the kettle black" and it refers to the blackening caused by the fire to the metal of the container where both are sitting on the same fire ie there is no difference as they are both charred by the fire
I really don't mean to be obstinate about this, but just because it's not offensive to you doesn't mean one is simply being "politically correct" for pointing out that it is offensive to others. Try to think about things from someone else's perspective for a change.

Obviously the pot is calling the kettle black because it's considered an insult to be called black - get it?

:apple:

HLdan
Nov 12, 2007, 12:46 PM
So which one are you?
The baby or the person that doesn't know a damn thing about computers?
I'm guessing the later, after reading your post.

Either way I'm happy to hear that you do like your Wii, oops I meant to say Mac. :rolleyes:

Wow, that was a good one! :D That other poster Skyehill dissed himself into his own stupid rant. ;)

chambers7
Nov 12, 2007, 12:47 PM
Why does there seem to be such a strong correlation between the ignorance of someone's post and how recently they have joined MacRumors? Seems a lot of people joining just lately in 2007 have some ridiculous posts. This for example...



Uh-huh. When writers begin writing columns begging Apple to drop Leopard and start over (as is happening with Vista right now) then you can pull that line of reasoning into it all. Until then, these veiled defenses of Microsoft are going to sound ludicrous.



Oh, gosh. Apple made an older application freely available. Yeah, that's a nightmare. And IIRC, it wasn't because the new application sucked. It was because of older file compatibility.



Only in the whiniest corners of the Internet can someone spin a $200 price drop and a rebate for early adopters as a bad thing.



The issue hasn't been known to Apple for three months. And anyway, from what I've seen, MS and the PC side don't exactly have a stellar record when it comes to quick fixes for exactly this kind of issue.



I follow Apple news and I have no idea what you're talking about. You weren't stretching real hard to come up with "problems" were you? This has that distinctly bottom-of-the-barrel sound to it.



Wow. Apple fixing issues in a .0 release is suddenly a bad thing? We're barely three weeks out on Leopard and the first update is right around the corner. Hmm... meanwhile, Vista SP1 is coming out when? Oh, that's right. Nobody knows yet. Windows sites have been hammering on "late 2007" which is unbelievable. Gee, Vista's been out how long now and users are still waiting for that first round of fixes? And *that's* somehow comparable to what Apple does? You've gotta be kidding me.

I'm not usually keen on doing the MS-vs.-Apple comparisons, but your claim that Apple needs to get their act together compared to MS is demonstrably ridiculous.

thanks for posting this... it's ridiculous when somebody doesn't know what they are saying but want to bag on apple.
the screen issues is that the ipod touch had a negative black screen (the screen appeared a little more black) in a few ipods. apple fixed that i believe a week and a half (or sooner) after it was noticed.

chambers7
Nov 12, 2007, 01:05 PM
will everyone please stop with this wasted, innacurate explanation?

FACE IT! Macs still do EVERYTHING better than PCs. Yes, even spreadsheets and games, even if they have to be running windows while they play them!

iWork is so much better than office, its ignorant to say anything else. its just too bad that our corporate infrastructures are built on microsoft's crappy software.

there is no happily ever after. Windows is just a ******** piece of software by virtue and principal. You can't be "a windows person", that means you are just a narrow minded twat who somehow is able to point out the typically illogical workflows and tasks of windows as their familiar proccesses, therefore making them "better" despite that obviously not being true and despite the fact that the same tasks are most likely much simpler in OS X.

i hate that logic so much. Being used to the way windows works is NOT an excuse to not want a mac.

that's like saying I'm used to having my rights trampled on by Bush so i'll just vote for him again.

and for those who say they will be loyal to windows just because they supposedly have "more control over there computer" and can "customize the interface" (again, both discredited! ie Terminal, Shapeshifter), that is not a valid way of telling other people that a PC is a better choice. Normal people want the computer/software company to keep that end solid for them in the background, neatly sealed under the hood so it doesn't get in the way. Sometimes messing with these micro-settings and nerd controls is mandatory to get something to work right in Windows, and coupled with the endless search for drivers, working on a PC makes me want to instantaneously PUKE. psuedo-features like that only matter to PC dorks like you- the Windows Loyalist! not to anyone that actually has real-world responsibilities and accomplishments other than upholding their legacy as an MMORPG character in an imaginary online universe.

PC/Microsoft loyalists. They really are a special breed of *******.

Long Live Mac. :apple:

a little bit angry sounding but very true. i still think that the anti mac postings are either steve ballmer posting in here or bill gates or one their buddies.

notjustjay
Nov 12, 2007, 01:17 PM
Obviously the pot is calling the kettle black because it's considered an insult to be called black - get it?

Obviously you have never worked with either a pot or a kettle on an open flame.

The pot is calling the kettle BLACK because the kettle has been BLACKENED by soot over an open flame. (As has the pot!)

Alternate explanation: Pots and kettles were made of cast iron. Now, what color is cast iron???

I can't tell if you are being facetious, intentionally disingenuous or just plain obtuse.

kingtj
Nov 12, 2007, 01:21 PM
Your statement makes you sound like somebody with little to no patience, or willingness to work through problems. (And there are PLENTY of people like that out there, but frankly, computers and technology don't mix well with these traits. They likely never will.)

If you went from Tiger to Leopard and ran into your keyboard freezing up, that's clearly not normal or typical of Leopard. I'd say you probably did an "upgrade" installation vs. a clean installation or an "archive and install", and the upgrade process encountered some issues. Maybe you had some 3rd. party software "hack" on the machine that Leopard wasn't handling well during the upgrade? Slow performance? Same kind of thing. Leopard should feel "about the same speed" as Tiger on any Mac that meets Apple's list of minimum requirements. On an Intel Mac, it should feel at least slightly faster than Tiger.

I own 2 Macs which I've upgraded to Leopard from Tiger, plus I've done the upgrade on a friend's white Intel-based iMac, and all 3 upgrades were big successes. No issues at all in any of the 3 cases, other than a few shareware programs requiring updates to the latest version for Leopard compatibility.

I'd take Apple being the "wii of computing" as more of a compliment than the derogatory statement you seem to be trying to make it into. That's exactly the point of Apple products. Build things that the "general public" can get use out of, instead of packing in as many features as possible, regardless of how unfriendly or confusing it might make the end result. The wii interested a whole new segement of society with the idea of playing video games, and did it while keeping the price point lower than the competition.


I have Vista and I have Leopard. The only OS I had to downgrade from was Apple's piece of crap OS. Keyboard freezing all the time, poor performance. Awful. Back to Tiger until Apple fixes their crap. The irony of them ripping on Vista is just too funny considering how bad their new OS is. As far as touting "intuitive" software, that's a joke. The included multimedia software packages included in Vista blow iLife's crappy suite of software away. I like my Mac, but it's clearly the Wii of computing. Made for babies, grandmothers, and people that don't know a damn thing about computing.

CJD2112
Nov 12, 2007, 01:35 PM
They must be feeding you a constant stream of kool-aid if you think Leopard is twice as fast as Tiger on PPC machines.

It is a bit faster; but no where near twice as fast.

Although I would be happy if Quartz Extreme actually worked 100% with my X800 and my 30" ACD at native resolution.

-mark

I passed on the koolaid, and yeah, I tested it on two of my friends' Power Book G4 systems, two clean installs, one Tiger, one Leopard, and the boot up time was significantly better with Leopard.

CJD2112
Nov 12, 2007, 01:41 PM
I installed Leopard on my not-that-old-at-all 12" G4 Powerbook (1.5ghz/1.25gigs RAM) and it ran very very poorly. Went back to Tiger and the computer soars now! I'm not really angry about it though. Leopard is great on the Intel Macs and G5's.

Every system is different. A couple of things that are paramount in keeping in mind with Leopard:

1) Third party hacks such as Unsanity applications have been known to cause major issues with the Finder and installation process

2) Non-Apple RAM installed after market has been known to cause issues

3) Not all machines are the same

Keeping that in mind, I HIGHLY recommend a "Clean Install", not an "Archive and Install" or "Upgrade", as this is a major update. Mac users seem to have forgotten that Leopard isn't just an update in GUI, but the Finder and system have been nearly rewritten. Plus, 10.5.1 is being worked on to address any issues.

That being said, this IS a much improved OS than Tiger, and when installed PROPERLY works wonders.

I am pretty sure you can't post on these sites if you really work for Apple.

Wrong. You can post on any site, you CAN NOT speculate on rumors, in store shipments, photographs, discussing store figures, pirating software (of course), etc. Making a statement about one's personal experience is another matter. Do you really think Apple is out there scanning websites for any retail store workers? lmao

Well then, let me be the first to tell you that I have returned to Tiger for MANY reasons.

Let me list a bit of my troubles for the casual viewer:

Here's my setup: PPC G5 Dual 2.3 ghz, 4.5 GB of RAM, 2 internal drives = 500gb, 1 external @ 500gb. All the RAM is from crucial and Apple - I've had it the RAM for over a year... so the freezes aren't related to old/bad RAM.

I was very excited by so much of this - spaces, time machine, new finder etc, etc. I tried to boot in tonight just to try again... I could never get on the web (after several router restarts) but Leopard just too beta for me.

I'll wait for the 260 mb 10.5.1 update before I venture deeper.

I know others who are backin' up a bit bacause of their issues as well. Apple better sort this crap out, or it is going to become fodder for the Vista vs. Leopard wars.

Sorry for all your troubles. I haven't heard of any one experiencing such a disaster with Leopard. There are so many variables in your comment I wouldn't know where to begin. Better off waiting for 10.5.1 and/or bringing in the system to a Genius and discussing it further with them. Good luck. :)

I'm a PPC (G4) user and I would love some of that double speed. :rolleyes:

Then upgrade :rolleyes:

extensor
Nov 12, 2007, 01:45 PM
I have Vista and I have Leopard. The only OS I had to downgrade from was Apple's piece of crap OS. Keyboard freezing all the time, poor performance. Awful. Back to Tiger until Apple fixes their crap. The irony of them ripping on Vista is just too funny considering how bad their new OS is. As far as touting "intuitive" software, that's a joke. The included multimedia software packages included in Vista blow iLife's crappy suite of software away. I like my Mac, but it's clearly the Wii of computing. Made for babies, grandmothers, and people that don't know a damn thing about computing.

It seems you've installed Leopard on a toaster. Try installing it on a com-pu-ter and get back to us. :D

CJD2112
Nov 12, 2007, 01:47 PM
It seems you've installed Leopard on a toaster. Try installing it on a com-pu-ter and get back to us. :D

Seriously. I find it amusing how there is no pleasing some of the people on this forum. Not every system is the same, third party app's and hardware (such as RAM and video cards) not to mention PEBKAC, and you've got a recipe for a bunch of whiners. Let me call you all a WAAAAAAMBULANCE. :rolleyes:

OdduWon
Nov 12, 2007, 01:50 PM
Is it just me, or is Apple the only one throwing blows in the Mac VS PC battle?
I've read posts saying the same things about 10.5 as the commercial states about vista. Is vista really so bad that apple can say so with such confidence?

Anuba
Nov 12, 2007, 02:29 PM
On the other hand, Mac sales have been steadily going up over the last couple years and the more they attack Windows and PCs, the better they seem to do. How can you claim the PC-and-Mac or the switcher ads were not the way to go when they are showing results?
I'm guessing that has more to do with iPod, iTunes, iPhone and Safari for Windows than the "Hi, I'm a Mac" ads.

Speaking as a platform agnostic who uses two Macs and two PCs, I really don't mind them bashing Microsoft and Windows per se -- the guys in Redmond deserve a good bashing -- and the ads certainly have great entertainment value, always good for a chuckle or two.

But it's still wrong on so many levels. If you look in any ol' "Business Practices for Dummies" book, page 1, chapter 1, you'll find a passage about the golden rule of focusing on your own strengths and never belittling your competition. It's the lowliest and most vulgar form of marketing, reserved for snake oil peddlers. Those ads are the bottled essence of the smugness and elitism that give the Mac community a bad name. It only serves to further alienate potential switchers, because when rubbing "Windows sucks" in their faces, you indirectly tell them that they suck. The message is "You're an idiot who makes poor choices, doesn't know crap about technology, and just blew your hard earned cash on crap." Is that supposed to make anyone make a mental note about getting a Mac the next time? More likely they'll make a mental note of flushing their iPod down the toilet and stomping the brain and guts out of the next Mac user they meet.

Mudslinging is OK on the grassroots level where life is generally undignified anyway, but when it comes from the top, it only makes Apple look like a pathetic and desperate bunch of sore losers. Which is thoroughly uncool, thus unbefitting of a really cool company. Makes Apple look more like PC Guy.