New TiBooks and New Video

[mcrain]

Spring TiBook Gains New Video
Wed, 24 Apr 2002, 01:24
Mace Windu

http://www.powerpage.org/ had the following story:

According to a source Apple will include an updated video subsystem in the new 667 and 800 MHz TiBooks due 30 April.

Out is the current anemic 16 MB ATI Mobility RADEON graphics accelerator. In is a new video chipset that will include a DVI output. The addition of the DVI out will finally allow you to connect the new PowerBook to Apple's ADC flat panel displays - with the use of a product like Dr. Bott's US$150 DVIator. (The DVIator combines a DVI video, USB and external power to drive Apple's ADC 15", 17" and 22" flat panel displays.)

Although the manufacturer of the new video chipset is still unknown, it would be great to see Apple again jump to the fore by choosing either the NVIDIA GeForce4 Go Series, or ATI's Mobility Fire GL 7800 - a 64 MB, 128-bit DDR memory processor with a 270MHz clock speed and 32-bit color resolution.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by mcrain

Although the manufacturer of the new video chipset is still unknown, it would be great to see Apple again jump to the fore by choosing either the NVIDIA GeForce4 Go Series, or ATI's Mobility Fire GL 7800 - a 64 MB, 128-bit DDR memory processor with a 270MHz clock speed and 32-bit color resolution.

Damn, this is a nice upgrade, I had originally wanted to hook up an Apple Cinema display to my TiPB but didn't because of all the hassle and extra $150 cost of the DVIator. And with the better video card, I wonder if the LCD resolution of the TiPB itself won't be greater?:D

If this happens, Jobs will be showing it everyone at the WWDC keynote. It just doesn't seem smart to release it early, especially something this good.

[mischief]

A powerbook with 4 batteries.

[iGav]

I have to admit, my 8Mb of Rage mobility is alittle... errr. little.....

64Mb would do nicely thanks...... :D

I'm still not buying though until they add this faster bus, supa duper RAM and chrome finish...... that I and many others here would dig!!!

Apple have in my eyes have 10 months (Feb 03) to release a WKD Powerbook with all these features...... as Feb 03 is when I'm going new mac shopping!!:p

[mcrain]

I noticed that the video out is DVI. Is that the powered output that you have to have for ADC, or is it an unpowered out that requires an additional power supply? If it is the powered out, there would have to be 4+ batteries or some sort of limitation to prevent it from sending a signal to the monitor unless the powerbook was plugged in.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by mcrain
I noticed that the video out is DVI. Is that the powered output that you have to have for ADC, or is it an unpowered out that requires an additional power supply?

My guess, based solely on speculation, is that it would only work when the TiPB is plugged in itself, otherwise if its not, its considered 'mobile'. Otherwise the battery is going to impload on the power draw if you had a 23" monitor:D

They should have come up with an elegant solution to the problem, we'll just have to wait and see what it is.

[DaveGee]

Am I the only one who reads this stuff?!?! :confused:

The addition of the DVI out will finally allow you to connect the new PowerBook to Apple's ADC flat panel displays - with the use of a product like Dr. Bott's US$150 DVIator.
(The DVIator combines a DVI video, USB and external power to drive Apple's ADC 15", 17" and 22" flat panel displays.)

Reworded for those who skip words etc...

The new powerbooks will have DVI video output.
DVIator is used to connect non-adc devices to adc displays.
DVIator requires DVI from the computer.
DVI video output on the new powerbook will allow users to BUY and USE the DVIator.

In short this story is telling us: New Powerbooks = DVI (not adc)

Dave

[tacojohn]

well- having DVI out would be a great solution for hooking up an ADC display. You would be forced to use the DVIator (which allows you to plug in the displays power). And its only $150 if you want to use an apple monitor now not $300 like it was before. But this does cause a problem- what are you going to be about the VGA projectors that most colleges and other areas use? I know you could use the s-video out, but its not as high quality....

[Xapplimatic]

ADC out <-- UNLIKELY! Probably the Powerbook's adaptor doesn't provide a high enough current to power both the Powerbook and something as hefty as a 23" HD display.. hence it will be DVI.

I have seen DVI to VGA converters as well for those wondering. Check with Dr. Bott, they likely have one. If not there's a good company up by Bill called Redmonds Cable which can build just about any kind of converter you need. VGA-> SVHS, DVI->VGA.. whatever you need. I have been very happy with their custom converters (and cheaper than Dr. Bott)

[eyelikeart]

personally...I could care less about the DVI stuff...

if I could sell my 500 TiBook now and get enough for it where I wouldn't come out of pocket a whole lot....I'm thinking I'd grab one of these new ones in a sec...

that is...of course....if it is true....hence the "rumor" factor there...

[AlphaTech]

16MB on a Radeon is NOT anemic, 8MB on a Rage chipset is (rev A TiBooks and earlier). Yes, it is less then you see in desktops (well.. duhhhh), but it is still a modern chipset and enough for most portable uses. Granted, I wouldn't mind seeing either 32MB, 64MB or a whopping 128MB for a video card inside the TiBook (who offers the 128MB video in a laptop???).

This is 110% rumor, with not much to back it up. Complete speculation, which means that either Apple will use a newer video chip, with more memory, or it won't.

As for people drooling over the DVI connection... big whoop. You can attach a ADC display to your TiBook now (and any with a VGA connection) by getting the correct adapters. I actually have (in my hand) a VGA to DVI adapter (VGA on computer to a DVI monitor). With that, and the DVIator, you can connect ANY computer to an Apple LCD (with ADC).

When the new PowerBooks come out, depending on what other features they have, I will be looking to get one. I have had my current one for about 1-1/2 years (it will be that come July), and am about ready to get a new one. Then again, I might just go and get a new tower, and not replace the laptop.

[StuPid QPid]

Does this mean that the new revision of the TiBook may have a higher resolution screen? I hope so, although the recent rumors don't seem to mention anything about a new screen.

[lordsinforge]

Originally posted by AlphaTech

As for people drooling over the DVI connection... big whoop. You can attach a ADC display to your TiBook now (and any with a VGA connection) by getting the correct adapters. I actually have (in my hand) a VGA to DVI adapter (VGA on computer to a DVI monitor). With that, and the DVIator, you can connect ANY computer to an Apple LCD (with ADC).
[/B]

Yeah, you CAN, but seeing how the GPU already converts from Digital to analog and then you are going back from analog to Digiatal you are loosing info in that prosses. Someone here tried it and the resolution on text resembles that of a mid range lcd, i.e it is slightly blurry on the edges.

So yes you can do it, but it will cost you a lot and the quality won't be that which you would get from a dv card.

[AlphaTech]

If you call under $36 for the VGA/DVI adapter a lot, I would hate to be you. That is actually higher then I have seen it elsewhere, besides the fact that they sometimes ship the adapters with monitors. http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Product_Id=105343

I would only use LCD screens at their native resolution, since ANYTHING else has the potential of being degraded. Saying that, yes, I do have my 17.4" LCD set to 1280x1024 and it is super clean. Anything lower, and it just doesn't look as nice. That has nothing to do with adapters, but the monitor signal.

[Ensign Paris]

I would love to see ADC powerbooks but I doubt we will (to much of a power drain)

Looking at how the internals of the PB is made there is space for a portable version of the GeForce 2 (Mobility)

A really good graphics processor in the PB will be very useful for serious gamers, but heck, what do I know, I love 2D games with 256 colours!

Ensign

[AlphaTech]

The innards of the PowerBook G4 are rather tightly packed (as are some of the people that use them, I am sure :D ). IF Apple does put the DVI port onto the PowerBook G4 (not saying they will, or should), then they should also include the VGA port on it. Every laptop in MA, at the company I work for, that is connected to an external monitor is using the VGA port. We are not going to replace all of those external monitors with new ones (that are DVI) or get hundreds of the DVI/VGA connectors. Especially in an era where companies are doing everything they can to trim wasted spending.

I would rather see Apple use a better video chip (Radeon 7500/7800 with either 32MB or 64MB) then change it's connection type. Also, I am rooting for a speed bump to get the PowerBooks closer to the towers. I can't see the superdrive getting small enough to fit within the confines of the PowerBook this year, maybe next year they will be here.

[agent302]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
The innards of the PowerBook G4 are rather tightly packed (as are some of the people that use them, I am sure :D ). IF Apple does put the DVI port onto the PowerBook G4 (not saying they will, or should), then they should also include the VGA port on it. Every laptop in MA, at the company I work for, that is connected to an external monitor is using the VGA port. We are not going to replace all of those external monitors with new ones (that are DVI) or get hundreds of the DVI/VGA connectors. Especially in an era where companies are doing everything they can to trim wasted spending.

I would rather see Apple use a better video chip (Radeon 7500/7800 with either 32MB or 64MB) then change it's connection type. Also, I am rooting for a speed bump to get the PowerBooks closer to the towers. I can't see the superdrive getting small enough to fit within the confines of the PowerBook this year, maybe next year they will be here.

The point that you (and lots of people) seem to be missing is that DVI to VGA adapters are really cheap, whereas the one VGA to DVI (or ADC) adapter that I've seen is $300 or so. Thus, including a DVI port will allow access to a very broad spectrum of monitors, more so than just a VGA port.

[tacojohn]

maybe this is the result of the price increase- Apple would include a DVI to VGA cable. Heck- maybe they would offer a choice between that or a DVI to ADC cable when you order.

[macstudent]

Would bluetooth require a card, like airport. Or would it just be some ciruit inside. Also, do you think it would change the look of the tibook?

[macstudent]

I just passed post 100. I am now a regular!

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by agent302


The point that you (and lots of people) seem to be missing is that DVI to VGA adapters are really cheap, whereas the one VGA to DVI (or ADC) adapter that I've seen is $300 or so. Thus, including a DVI port will allow access to a very broad spectrum of monitors, more so than just a VGA port.

Where the hell are you looking for the adapters??? I EASILY found a VGA to DVI adapter for about $36... Couple that with the $150 DVIator and you don't even come close to the $300 or so that you mention.

I HAVE two VGA monitors, why would I need/want to add an adapter to use them now???

[agent302]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


Where the hell are you looking for the adapters??? I EASILY found a VGA to DVI adapter for about $36... Couple that with the $150 DVIator and you don't even come close to the $300 or so that you mention.

I HAVE two VGA monitors, why would I need/want to add an adapter to use them now???

OK, I have no idea what adapter you found, but this VGA to DVI Adapter (http://www.gefen.com/products/extendit/new_kvm_usb_extenders_switches/vga_to_dvi/index.html) (meaning from a VGA graphics card to a DVI monitor) is $299. That's not cheap. By comparison, the opposite adapter (http://www.gefen.com/products/extendit/cables_accessories/adaptors/dvitovga/index.html) (from a DVI graphics card to a VGA monitor) is $45 (and I bet is cheaper elsewhere). So, I guarantee you that putting a DVI port will allow cheaper access to more monitors.

[AlphaTech]

agebt302, IF you read my earlier post, and went to this url (http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Product_Id=105343) you would see the simple adapter by Belkin that takes the VGA signal from the video card and converts it to DVI. You can THEN plug the DVIator into that and go to an ADC monitor. Total solution is under $190.

IMO, only a fool wouldn't research alternate solutions to spending $300 and then another $150 to use a $1000 monitor.

Check the belkin site and see the adapter before you assume that the gefen solution is the only one. It isn't, nor is it the best one.

*newbies*:rolleyes:

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by macstudent
Would bluetooth require a card, like airport. Or would it just be some ciruit inside. Also, do you think it would change the look of the tibook?

The Apple Bluetooth solution is a $49 USB Dongle with free software.

Airport v2 or 802.11b is due. U.S. Robotics has already released it.

Wouldn't it be nice if Apple would simply include Airport with all portable CPU's over $2000? I cannot imagine why not.

Rocketman

[agent302]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
agebt302, IF you read my earlier post, and went to this url (http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Product_Id=105343) you would see the simple adapter by Belkin that takes the VGA signal from the video card and converts it to DVI. You can THEN plug the DVIator into that and go to an ADC monitor. Total solution is under $190.

IMO, only a fool wouldn't research alternate solutions to spending $300 and then another $150 to use a $1000 monitor.

Check the belkin site and see the adapter before you assume that the gefen solution is the only one. It isn't, nor is it the best one.


If I read that correctly, that adapter is the same as the $45 Gefen one I linked to; as in, DVI graphics card to VGA monitor, not the other way around. And try to spell my name correctly, please.


*newbies*:rolleyes:

*assholes* :mad:

[AlphaTech]

Why would I spend more money for the same item??? Only morons do that..

'nuf said.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by agent302
If I read that correctly, that adapter is the same as the $45 Gefen one I linked to; as in, DVI graphics card to VGA monitor, not the other way around. And try to spell my name correctly, please.
*assholes* :mad:

You do not read it correctly. From the website:
Our DVI adapters provide a high-bandwidth video interface for the host and display devices of today, while addressing the bandwidth requirements of tomorrow. Digital Display Working Group (DDWG*) Digital Visual Interface (DVI) standard guarantee to work with analog or DVI-I flat panels/liquid crystal displays. No other adapter delivers better performance.
This adapter converts a DVI-I analog male plug to a VGA plug and can adapt to any existing system that uses VGA technology.

And watch the name calling...Alpha doesn't pull any punches.

[AlphaTech]

Rower_CPU, thanks for the backup.

agent302, you have been warned... Rower has seen me rip people new ones (sometimes multiple ones). :D... It's a hobby of mine.

Hey, eyelikeart... what's your take on this?? Since you are the other top ranking demi-god here. :D

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by agent302
*assholes* :mad:

to who are u referring??

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
And watch the name calling...Alpha doesn't pull any punches.

yeah...he won't think twice to kick it on u...

and if that's not enough....there's plenty more to go around from the rest of us...he he he...

did someone hear the cracking open of a can?? :eek: ;)

[AlphaTech]

Actually, that was me, I just tapped a full keg o' whoop ass... fill up guys.. :D

Let the festivities begin...

[eyelikeart]

it's gotten awfully quiet in here all of a sudden?! :eek:

back to new TiBooks...

I still need to talk to my Mac dealer to see if he happens to know anything at all...

but I think I'm definitely going to chunk my Rev. A Ti 500....replace it with a nice whatever's the fastest...he he he

32 MB of VRAM would blow away my meak 8 MB (ugh)...
64 would just....nevermind...this is supposed to be a PG website... ;)

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by eyelikeart
it's gotten awfully quiet in here all of a sudden?! :eek:

back to new TiBooks...

I still need to talk to my Mac dealer to see if he happens to know anything at all...

but I think I'm definitely going to chunk my Rev. A Ti 500....replace it with a nice whatever's the fastest...he he he

32 MB of VRAM would blow away my meak 8 MB (ugh)...
64 would just....nevermind...this is supposed to be a PG website... ;)

I'm probably going to sell my rev a as well and get a new one...

Hey eyelikeart... you need a mop or a damp towel over there??? LOL

[eyelikeart]

man...it's been rough these past couple months...

with my trip to see my girlfriend in 2 weeks and the possibility of a new TiBook....it just may get a bit messy around here...he he he :p

[agent302]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


You do not read it correctly. From the website:
Our DVI adapters provide a high-bandwidth video interface for the host and display devices of today, while addressing the bandwidth requirements of tomorrow. Digital Display Working Group (DDWG*) Digital Visual Interface (DVI) standard guarantee to work with analog or DVI-I flat panels/liquid crystal displays. No other adapter delivers better performance.
This adapter converts a DVI-I analog male plug to a VGA plug and can adapt to any existing system that uses VGA technology.


Fine, that may be the case.. BUT, it involves a loss of quality throughout the process. You are going from Digital in the computer, to analog in the card, back to digital in the monitor. If you start with DVI-I, however, you go from digital to digital to digital, no loss in conversion (and it's still cheaper than your solution). Why spend money on an Apple Display if your going to have bad quality?


And watch the name calling...Alpha doesn't pull any punches.

Then don't criticize what I say based on my post count. That means nothing in regards to what I know. (And, if you look on the sidebar, you'll notice I've been registered here for 8 months)

[AlphaTech]

agent302,

I have attached digital monitors to a VGA connection on computers before without ANY quality loss. The MAIN thing you need to remember is to go with the native resolution of the screen. THAT yields the optimal results on the screen. Go to a lower resolution, and you probably will get a lesser quality of image, but it isn't the 'conversion' of the signal, it is the fact that the screen doesn't want to go that low.

I have also used LCD's that were digital, but also had a VGA port on them. I found that the VGA port gave more options, and actually yielded BETTER image quality then going digital. That was with the conversion happening within the screen.

Your blanket statement that using the VGA to DVI adapter "involves a loss of quality throughout the process. " doesn't hold any fluids (water or otherwise).

UNLESS you are going from actual, personal, experience, don't make statements like that. I have used many different kinds of monitors and computers (one of the benefits of being in IT/IS) and can tell you that no such loss exists. If by some freak chance it does, it doesn't on any display of good quality. I use mostly ViewSonic and IBM displays, both of which are rated VERY high. Not some cheap, off brand display that WILL give you all kinds of problems (there is a reason they are cheaper). Except for the very newest Apple LCD's (haven't played with one YET), ViewSonic LCD's are of equal (if not higher) quality. IBM displays rate below ViewSonic, but still higher then many other brands.

[agent302]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
agent302,

I have attached digital monitors to a VGA connection on computers before without ANY quality loss. The MAIN thing you need to remember is to go with the native resolution of the screen. THAT yields the optimal results on the screen. Go to a lower resolution, and you probably will get a lesser quality of image, but it isn't the 'conversion' of the signal, it is the fact that the screen doesn't want to go that low.

I have also used LCD's that were digital, but also had a VGA port on them. I found that the VGA port gave more options, and actually yielded BETTER image quality then going digital. That was with the conversion happening within the screen.

Your blanket statement that using the VGA to DVI adapter "involves a loss of quality throughout the process. " doesn't hold any fluids (water or otherwise).

UNLESS you are going from actual, personal, experience, don't make statements like that. I have used many different kinds of monitors and computers (one of the benefits of being in IT/IS) and can tell you that no such loss exists. If by some freak chance it does, it doesn't on any display of good quality. I use mostly ViewSonic and IBM displays, both of which are rated VERY high. Not some cheap, off brand display that WILL give you all kinds of problems (there is a reason they are cheaper). Except for the very newest Apple LCD's (haven't played with one YET), ViewSonic LCD's are of equal (if not higher) quality. IBM displays rate below ViewSonic, but still higher then many other brands.

Fair enough.

[lunDisc]

what about the screenresolution in the spring Ti, moore than 1024x768?
It would be nice...

[StuPid QPid]

Instead of arguing about DVI, VGA and external monitors, I'd prefer it if Apple included a higher resolution, kick-*ss *built in* screen with the revised TiBook. Not that the present one is bad...
Also, if they change the form factor slightly to fit in a Superdrive, then maybe that would allow the space to more easily fit in a better graphics chip and the DVI port. Of course, then I'd need a separate carrying case for the batteries ;)

[peterjhill]

Originally posted by tacojohn
well- having DVI out would be a great solution for hooking up an ADC display. You would be forced to use the DVIator (which allows you to plug in the displays power). And its only $150 if you want to use an apple monitor now not $300 like it was before. But this does cause a problem- what are you going to be about the VGA projectors that most colleges and other areas use? I know you could use the s-video out, but its not as high quality.... :

Apple could also put DVI on the machine and include an Apple equivalent to the DVIator. I could easily imagine them doing something like that.

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by lunDisc
what about the screenresolution in the spring Ti, moore than 1024x768?
It would be nice...

It already is higher, ya mook... Max. res. (currently) is 1152x768. ALL the info for the current one can be found at http://www.apple.com/powerbook/. I suggest doing a little reading before putting up another post like that.

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by lunDisc
what about the screenresolution in the spring Ti, moore than 1024x768?
It would be nice...

I'm willing to bet he meant more than 1152 x 768...

people have been whining about that for a while now...

I don't see the point of having a higher resolution on a screen that size...it's already big....I suppose they wanna have to use binoculars when looking at it?! he he he... :p

[AlphaTech]

I know people have been asking for higher resolutions on the screens, which if it was there, many of them would use it. At least initially. After a while, you have to decide upon a resolution that is best for you. Maximum resolution on a screen is not for everyone. I never thought I would like the high resolution on the LCD I have, but with the clarity it has, and lack of flicker, it is very nice. I might use a higher resolution, if available, on a new PowerBook G4, then again, I might not.

I can't see Apple putting JUST DVI or ADC for outputs on their PowerBooks. For one, how many people travel to give presentations and have to use a projector that is provided?? We have many people within the company that I work for that either go to other company sites, or to client locations. You don't know what kind of projector you are going to run into. All projectors (made within the last 5-10 years) have a standard VGA connection (or cable with that connection on it). If Apple was to convert to either DVI or ADC, then they better provide the converters or people will be royally pissed off. I can just see it now... a VP goes to TX to give a presentation with his brand new PowerBook G4. He goes to plug into their projector, but it only has VGA input, and he only has either DVI or ADC and he forgot his adapter. I can hear the fallout from that already *taking cover*.

Hell, even Apple's towers still have a VGA connection on them (except for the GF Ti card). The thing with towers though, is they don't go to other sites or travel for weeks all over the country. 99.95% of them stay where they are put (at least at the same site) unless there is a company move. Adapters on towers are not the issue... it's on the laptops. I remember people praising Apple for putting a standard VGA connection onto the laptops for outputting to a larger screen/projector. They went to the STANDARD, not something on less them 5% of the screens (ADC).

I have also yet to SEE a monitor (CRT) with ONLY a DVI connection. If they do have DVI, then they either have a VGA port as well, or the cable goes to VGA input (have heard about those :D ).

Bottom line, while I see Apple as an innovator, I don't think they will make the mistake of alienating so many people by going to either DVI or ADC only on the PowerBook line. If they add it as a second video out port, that's one thing. But not as the only video output connection.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
...Bottom line, while I see Apple as an innovator, I don't think they will make the mistake of alienating so many people by going to either DVI or ADC only on the PowerBook line. If they add it as a second video out port, that's one thing. But not as the only video output connection.

Exactly. Moving to their proprietary connector would be a deadly move, and DVI is just not _standard_ enough, yet.

Multiple display outputs would be interesting, but difficult given the current form factor. What would they have to ditch to fit it in? The s-video out..the modem...?

On the other hand, can you imagine hooking up two external displays and still having the TiBook screen...triple display baby! Could the video card even handle that?

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
On the other hand, can you imagine hooking up two external displays and still having the TiBook screen...triple display baby! Could the video card even handle that?

If they're using the new video card, but more than likely one monitor would be a mirror of the TiPB screen, so you'd only get 2 displays. I'd love it anyway, I use 2 displays at home sometimes and its just wonderful, all that acreage.:D

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Exactly. Moving to their proprietary connector would be a deadly move, and DVI is just not _standard_ enough, yet.

Multiple display outputs would be interesting, but difficult given the current form factor. What would they have to ditch to fit it in? The s-video out..the modem...?

On the other hand, can you imagine hooking up two external displays and still having the TiBook screen...triple display baby! Could the video card even handle that?

I could imagine plugging a laptop into two displays and having an almost panoramic display. :D That would have to be one kick ass video card though, a mobile dual header, or would it be a tripple header??? Have a pair of 23" Apple display's flanking the new PowerBook G4 and have a game playing on all three, giving you almost 180° of viewable space. You would be the UT champ in no time. :D

[SPG]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


It already is higher, ya mook... Max. res. (currently) is 1152x768. ALL the info for the current one can be found at http://www.apple.com/powerbook/. I suggest doing a little reading before putting up another post like that.
Alpha I know you just fealt threatened by a newbie a few posts back, but damn, that was a little over the top don't you think?

[AlphaTech]

SPG, I just have a low threshold for idiots today.

Maybe tomorrow will be better, since will be Friday and with improved weather (no rain) I will be able to ride the HD.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
SPG, I just have a low threshold for idiots today.


The War On Stupidity And Ignorance takes no prisoners. I totally agree, if you don't do your research or no what you're talking about, don't expect to get away without someone letting you know. People can make a mistake, but a fact like that is too easily turned up.

[jefhatfield]

i am not a graphics guy so help me here, but i like laptops...i have 2

is the graphics card on the tibook made for photoshop more or for gaming and moving animation more?

and do you traditional non-moving graphics people find agp graphics better than older pci graphics for photoshop and illustrator?

and if so, by a lot?

at the gaming store in the mall, the gamers, many of whom are techies, talk about the cards as if the high tech industry are gearing them for motion related games and moving graphics only...

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
i am not a graphics guy so help me here, but i like laptops...i have 2

is the graphics card on the tibook made for photoshop more or for gaming and moving animation more?

and do you traditional non-moving graphics people find agp graphics better than older pci graphics for photoshop and illustrator?

and if so, by a lot?

at the gaming store in the mall, the gamers, many of whom are techies, talk about the cards as if the high tech industry are gearing them for motion related games and moving graphics only...

Depends on which rev you're talking about. My rev A has the ATI Rage Mobility 128 (AGP 2X) w/ 8 MB of memory. Most 3D apps I've tried have been pretty poor performers. The rev Bs have the ATI Mobility Radeon (AGP 4X) w/ 16 MB. The rev Bs will you give much better performance on a game/animation.

I don't believe that Photoshop and other 2D graphics apps suffer on the older video chipset.

Who knows what the rev Cs will have? GeForce 4 Go w/ 32 or 64 MB...mighty tasty!

[AlphaTech]

jefhatfield, Personally, I have found that the AGP graphics cards are far superior to the PCI ones. The fact that the AGP bus speed is anything from 2x to 4x (currently with talk of even faster ones soon) that of the PCI bus.

I tend to favor ATI graphics cards, but the nVidia ones should be pretty much in line with them. As for how they handle 2D and 3D images... I would say that any AGP card with a decent GPU will do both well enough. The better the GPU the better the overall performance will be. The more memory the card has, the better the performance as well. A 64MB Radeon 8500 will blow the doors off of a 16MB Rage 128, and thrash a 16MB or 32MB Radeon (pre-numbered units).

I found that the 8MB in my TiBook (Rage chipset, not Radeon) was severely beaten by the 32MB Radeon Mac edition in my G4 tower (AGP graphics, and before I sold it). Everything on the tower performed better with the card (I replaced the 16MB Rage 128 that came with the G4 500 with the Radeon) from Photoshop to games. With a better graphics card, applications for image and video editing won't tax the CPU as much, since the graphics card can take some of the rendering work load off of it.

In general, I have also found that games tax hardware more then normal applications. Games are always getting more involved, and more demanding of hardware (either chip speed, graphics cards, or memory amounts).

Not all applications will take advantage of better graphics cards, items such as office, but your quality of display, and available resolutions get better with the better/newer cards.

[eyelikeart]

I find that the 8 MB in my TiBook works well in most cases...but screen redraws in PhotoShop are really slow when compared my work system (which is a slower processor & less ram)...

vector redrawing isn't as well either...

video runs better in X than it did in 9 though...but I can only imagine what 32 MB would do for it...

[cb911]

i noticed that both of you said that you were going to get new TiBooks. as soon as they come out i'm going to get one as well. :D
i was just wondering if you're getting the low-end or high-end model. i'm thinking of getting the low-end model now and spending a bit more on the high-end model when it has more significant changes/upgrades. what do you guys think?

[SPG]

Originally posted by dukestreet


The War On Stupidity And Ignorance takes no prisoners. I totally agree, if you don't do your research or no what you're talking about, don't expect to get away without someone letting you know. People can make a mistake, but a fact like that is too easily turned up.
Hmmm, Okay, how about this:
Shut your hole you pee brained maggot! When referring to knowledge the word is "know" and not "no" you worthless little twit!
Is that how I should respond?

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by SPG

Hmmm, Okay, how about this:
Shut your hole you pee brained maggot! When referring to knowledge the word is "know" and not "no" you worthless little twit!
Is that how I should respond?

Actually, the expression is "pea-brained"...

[SPG]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


Actually, the expression is "pea-brained"...
Not when referring to urine.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by SPG
Not when referring to urine.

And that migrates up to the cerebrum how, exactly?

The expression's intent is to impugn the size of one's gray matter...not it's substance.

[SPG]

you insult your way, I'll insult my way, okay Peebrain?
-just kidding.

Seriously though, I just thought the tone back there was a little harsh, especially against a newbie who had a valid question, even if he didn't quote the spec exactly. Those of us who have been around here a little while kinda have an idea who they can mess with and what they can say, but come on! That was a first post by someone who has already read through a couple pages of diatribe and just wanted to get in on it, not get attacked.
Play nice until you get to know them, then mock them, browbeat them, insult them, and ridicule them!

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by SPG
you insult your way, I'll insult my way, okay Peebrain?
-just kidding.

Seriously though, I just thought the tone back there was a little harsh, especially against a newbie who had a valid question, even if he didn't quote the spec exactly. Those of us who have been around here a little while kinda have an idea who they can mess with and what they can say, but come on! That was a first post by someone who has already read through a couple pages of diatribe and just wanted to get in on it, not get attacked.
Play nice until you get to know them, then mock them, browbeat them, insult them, and ridicule them!

He (lunDisc) made an incorrect statement as to the current spec of the Tibook. Alpha corrected him in his own particular idiom.

I neither condemn, nor condone said correction...but the correction was neccessary regardless.

I'm looking forward to future...uh, shall we say "banter", with you. ;)

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by cb911
i noticed that both of you said that you were going to get new TiBooks. as soon as they come out i'm going to get one as well. :D
i was just wondering if you're getting the low-end or high-end model. i'm thinking of getting the low-end model now and spending a bit more on the high-end model when it has more significant changes/upgrades. what do you guys think?

Provided I can find a buyer for my current PowerBook G4, I will be going for the fastest processor. I might reduce the hard drive size, since I have the 60GB IBM TravelStar that I can just transplant into the new system. Obviously, I will back up everything first, just in case I need to wipe the drive when I put it into the new laptop. I will go with whatever the standard issue RAM amount is, and consider increasing it later on.

Thanks for the comic relief Rower_CPU and SPG... I think I needed it today. :D I had to deal with more then a few 'people' with protruding brows today, and I think it spilled over to the newbie. Did I make it too harsh, maybe... but, as the saying goes, if you can't take the heat, get the ***** out of the fire. Either that, or get fireproof shorts.

[eyelikeart]

it all depends on my current financial position when I buy it....if I get it...

I'm about to settle up my 3 lease on my car and I may be buying something within the next month...plus I'm moving in August....so funds may be a bit tight...

but if u ask me what I want to do...I opted for the faster processor when I got my TiBook last year...if I know myself at all I'll likely do the same next time around...he he he :p

[Catfish_Man]

...get a Matrox card. Both ATI and nVidia's stuff is designed for 3d.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by Catfish_Man
...get a Matrox card. Both ATI and nVidia's stuff is designed for 3d.

Does Matrox even make Mac video cards? :confused:

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


Does Matrox even make Mac video cards? :confused:

I just did a search within macmall and found three Matrox card bundles (same card, different package contents). They are priced at $599, $799, and $1289. How many people (not doing broadcast video) can justify paying that much for a video card???

From the specifications listed, it is a PCI graphics card that appears to be dedicated for video production. I doubt that it would do as well as the cards offered by both ATI and nVidia for graphics professionals, as well as home users.

In all honesty, IF I was a video professional, I would probably get something of that nature for producing video. For everything else, I would use a card from either ATI or nVidia. All three have their strengths and weaknesses. You just need to decide which you need more, all around great performance, or dedicated video production. Then again, you can have both in the same system too. :D

In case anyone wants a look... ($599) http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=958658, ($799) http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=966030, and ($1289) http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=965539

[Grokgod]

You guys tear up the newbie but let Catfish get away with this bizarre matrox
2d video statement, what madness.

Catfish> matrox makes cards for video editing, i know because i use it!
I suppose you could call video, 2d if you stretched the logic of the premise to the point where logic no longer mattered.

Besides wasnt this a laptop thread? And wasnt the question in the context of laptops? You came up with Matrox. The is NO matrox card in laptops, lamer.
That was my tiny flame of the day.

Let loose the dogs of war!

[bonehead]

Hey AlphaTech

I have a few questions regarding your 60GB IBM TravelStar drive.
What's the rpm? Is is quieter than the stock TiBook drive? How much is one?
Is it easy to swap out the hard drive in a TiBook? I've done it in an older tower but never in a laptop. I'm comfortable opening something up to monkey with it but I'm not a tech. Is it something that can be done by a technically curious but somewhat inexperienced person? I'd appreciate any info you can share. Thanks.

[bonehead]

AlphaTech

I just got most of the tech info from the IBM website. I am still curious if I could install this thing myself. The only scary thing is the recommended torque settings for the mounting screws. Is that something that has to be paid careful attention to and is there such a thing as a tiny torque wrench/screwdriver?

[cb911]

60GB hard drive sounds pretty good hey bonehead. when i get my TiBook i might try something like that with it. i'm not a tech but i think you'd be able to do it if you were careful. i think that AlphaTech is a tech as well, he does those sort of things alot.

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by bonehead
AlphaTech

I just got most of the tech info from the IBM website. I am still curious if I could install this thing myself. The only scary thing is the recommended torque settings for the mounting screws. Is that something that has to be paid careful attention to and is there such a thing as a tiny torque wrench/screwdriver?

I've never used a torque wrench on my computer (any of them). I believe that what they mean is to not over-torque the screws. Make them snug, and maybe use a little dab of lock-tite on them before putting them in.

As for how easy is it to install the drive?? Not for the faint of heart, or mechanically inept. How do you feel about pulling the bottom off of your TiBook?? That is part of it. Then you need a few Torx head drivers (if I remember correctly, you will need a T7, T8, T9, and maybe a T10) so that you can remove the old drive. Don't forget to pull the two screws from the opposite side of the original hard drive.

Something else you will want to do, is export your favorites/bookmarks from your web browsers and back up everything from your old drive first. Then just initialize the new drive and start installing everything again. When I did mine, I only put OS X onto it, no 9.x at all. I noticed a speed boost when I did this. Oh, and I have just one partition (the entire drive).

[cb911]

hey AlphaTech, you work with Macs don't you? could you tell me if it is possible to buy replacement TiBook covers. i've had a look on the net and haven't found anything yet.

[bonehead]

Thanks AlphaTech for the tips. I have one other question. Aside from the greater capacity, is the IBM drive a better quality drive than the stock drive? Is is quieter, more reliable, etc.? If I'm going to void my warranty, which I think this would, I want to make sure it's worth it. Thanks.

[AlphaTech]

cb911, I don't believe that you can buy replacement covers for the TiBook. The only way to get them is from Apple, and they don't sell them, they replace defective ones.

bonehead, the IBM drive is of higher quality then the Toshiba ones that come stock in TiBooks. Even though it spins faster, the IBM is not any louder then the stock TiBook drives. The only way to really know the reliability differences, is to check for the MTBF numbers for both drives. The one with the more hours will most likely last longer, under normal conditions. I noticed a performance increase when I went to the IBM drive compared to the stock drive from Apple.

[dr190]

Here's a question... assuming the new TiBooks are officially announced on Apr 30, how soon will we see them in physical stores?

Just curious, I'm in the market for a new laptop and I'll have to check these things out...

-dr

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by dr190
Here's a question... assuming the new TiBooks are officially announced on Apr 30, how soon will we see them in physical stores?

Just curious, I'm in the market for a new laptop and I'll have to check these things out...

-dr

probably 4-6 weeks...it took me 7 nearly 7 weeks go receive mine once I ordered it (which was 2 days after it's announcement last year)...

Apple has to annouce them to pique the public's interest in knowing there's something new....then they jump upon the task of actually making them...

great products...awesome technology...just slow as hell on the production level!!

[cb911]

i've already been waiting since the start of the year for the new TiBooks, and now i'm going to have to wait another 6 weeks? perhaps they might do things a bit differently this time and have the TiBooks delivered in about two weeks?

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by cb911
i've already been waiting since the start of the year for the new TiBooks, and now i'm going to have to wait another 6 weeks? perhaps they might do things a bit differently this time and have the TiBooks delivered in about two weeks?

just think how much lag time there was with the new imac...it was too long for apple's own good

[Baseline]

Assuming that a speed/GPU bumped TiBook does come out next week, what are the odds of a brand new machine coming out at NY? I've been waiting about two months for a TiBook, and it'll be my first Mac (the combination of that sexy case and a Unix core is too much to resist), so I don't really know the history of Apple's releases.

Have they done a speedbump followed very shortly after by a brand new model before? I'd hate to spend $5000 CDN to get a TiBook, just to have a vastly improved model come out at MWNY. I've been in the computing game long enough (since '83) to know that it's usually silly to worry about computer obsolescence, but for this amount of money, with no chance to do an upgrade on the machine, I'm going to worry about it.

And I'd REALLY like to order one soon so I can impress all the other engineers at the new job I'm going to be starting in a few weeks :) Best way to get off on the right foot with fellow engineers is to blow them away with your toys.

[eyelikeart]

what a minute...

what happened to the flameware Alpha???