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MacRumors
Feb 6, 2008, 01:58 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

After some initial confusion, iLounge received clarification (http://ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/iphone-upgraders-forced-into-new-2-year-contracts-updated/) from AT&T regarding the possibility of replacing your current iPhone with a 16GB one. Mark Siegel, Executive Director of Media and Analyst Relations with AT&T, told iLounge in an email, “If you upgrade from an 8 to a 16 GB iPhone, you sign a new contract. However, we automatically backdate it to the starting point of your contract on the 8 GB phone.” He added that the company “will make every effort to ensure that our reps provide customers with the correct information,” and clarified that customers should activate the SIM card that comes with the new model.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2008/02/06/upgrade-to-16gb-iphone-without-extending-contract/)



Grimace
Feb 6, 2008, 02:01 PM
You sign a new contract? But they backdate it?

AT&T, make your own internal billing easier!!

overanalyzer
Feb 6, 2008, 02:04 PM
Do you normally sign a new (backdated) contract when upgrading your phone? Or is this an iPhone specific thing?

Mac-Addict
Feb 6, 2008, 02:05 PM
Ah cool! Hopefully its the same if you upgrade from 1st gen to 2nd gen (whenever that is).

bdj21ya
Feb 6, 2008, 02:20 PM
This makes no sense whatsoever. If I put my old SIM in, and throw the new one away, don't I just avoid this hassle altogether? I thought iPhones worked with any iTunes activated SIM--put it in and connect to iTunes.

Maybe they figure people will be too stupid to understand the paperclip SIM replacement diagram.

Do you normally sign a new (backdated) contract when upgrading your phone? Or is this an iPhone specific thing?

Usually, at least here in the U.S., people buy new phones subsidized, so the contract extension makes sense. But for most any company specific phone (AT&T locked in this case), or for any unlocked SIM phone, you just pop your SIM in and it works. No need to deal with the company at all if you're buying unsubsidized.

tomjleeds
Feb 6, 2008, 02:22 PM
Note that O2 UK users don't need to sign a new contract if 'upgrading' from 8GB to 16GB (AKA buying another one and...well, getting rid of the other one somehow).

nbs2
Feb 6, 2008, 02:39 PM
(AKA buying another one and...well, getting rid of the other one somehow).

Maybe that's the goal? With these "special SIMs" that ATT is using in the iPhone, this would make it easier to get rid of your old iPhone. But, what is the contract start date for the guy that you sell your phone to? Is it your old date as well or is it the date that he activates himself as the new owner (that would be kind of crappy - buy a used phone and still need to have a 2 years).

darwen
Feb 6, 2008, 02:47 PM
You need to get the phone past the activation screen. It is only going to get past that screen if you activate a new sim in it.

There are no special sim's in iPhone, it is the phone that would prevent you from swapping sims... not the practicality of it.

Once a US phone has been activated, any AT&T sim will work in it. Before it has been activated, no sim will work in it. You need to activate the new sim which makes the old one useless. That is why it is done like this.

To put it simply, your new 16gig phone will not get past the activation screen if you put an 8gig sim in it. It needs a fresh activation with a fresh sim.

Orng
Feb 6, 2008, 03:01 PM
When they say "Sign" a contract, do they actually mean "agree to" a contract without a signature?

Because if I asked my current provider (Rogers) to show me my signature on a contract, they might find the request a little... challenging. And yet they'll happily refer to the contract I allegedly signed if I try to make major changes to my plan or try to get out of it.

salimdao
Feb 6, 2008, 03:21 PM
how much is it to upgrade from 8GB to 16GB?

arn
Feb 6, 2008, 03:24 PM
how much is it to upgrade from 8GB to 16GB?

Upgrade Cost = $499 for new iPhone - how much you get for your old iPhone on eBay

salimdao
Feb 6, 2008, 03:30 PM
Upgrade Cost = $499 for new iPhone - how much you get for your old iPhone on eBay
hahaha. i thought so.

joecirca79
Feb 6, 2008, 03:34 PM
Question...
If i give my wife my old iphone and i upgrade to the 16gb, what activation if any will she have to go through? She's currently on at&t.

clayj
Feb 6, 2008, 03:34 PM
Upgrade Cost = $499 for new iPhone - how much you get for your old iPhone on eBayIn my case, that would be $499 - $300 for the old phone I sold in a matter of hours on Craigslist. $200 to double my storage AND get a new phone in perfect condition is not a bad deal, as far as I am concerned.

sal
Feb 6, 2008, 03:39 PM
what will people do with their old phones? I hear you can't use them as ipods without them being activated. I assume they can be sold and someone else can reactivate it for a new contract?

SirOmega
Feb 6, 2008, 03:39 PM
Upgrade Cost = $499 for new iPhone - how much you get for your old iPhone on eBay

1. Buy 16GB iPhone
2. Unlock old iPhone
3. Sell old unlocked phone on ebay for $500
4. FREE upgrade!

sal
Feb 6, 2008, 03:41 PM
3. Sell old unlocked phone on ebay for $500


um will people really spend $500 for an unlocked iphone?

Zoboomafoo
Feb 6, 2008, 04:19 PM
correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't this like a ground-breakingly awesome thing?

marykay9507
Feb 6, 2008, 04:22 PM
um will people really spend $500 for an unlocked iphone?

have you looked at ebay lately? last time i looked they were going for over $500! take a look..it will blow your mind

synth3tik
Feb 6, 2008, 05:08 PM
A while ago I contacted At&t I was told that I could either get a new iphone (at that point not yet 16G) or downgrade to a phone of equal/less value without having to renew.

overanalyzer
Feb 6, 2008, 05:22 PM
Usually, at least here in the U.S., people buy new phones subsidized, so the contract extension makes sense. But for most any company specific phone (AT&T locked in this case), or for any unlocked SIM phone, you just pop your SIM in and it works. No need to deal with the company at all if you're buying unsubsidized.

Except in the case of the iPhone, apparently, since they're telling people to activate the new SIM and sign the new contract instead of swapping the old SIM to the new phone. That's what struck me as odd.

violaboy
Feb 6, 2008, 05:44 PM
my wife wants an iphone and i'd love to give her my 8GB and get the 16GB, but i called ATT and they said that we'd have to start a new contract from the date of purchase of the new unit. :(
:apple:

Fuzzbear
Feb 6, 2008, 05:46 PM
my wife wants an iphone and i'd love to give her my 8GB and get the 16GB, but i called ATT and they said that we'd have to start a new contract from the date of purchase of the new unit. :(
:apple:

Will swapping the sim cards not work?

overanalyzer
Feb 6, 2008, 05:51 PM
my wife wants an iphone and i'd love to give her my 8GB and get the 16GB, but i called ATT and they said that we'd have to start a new contract from the date of purchase of the new unit. :(
:apple:

I just re-read this and it seems like that makes sense...you're starting a new contract for the new phone, no? Or are you saying they said you'd have to start new contracts for both phones?

Jaunty
Feb 6, 2008, 05:59 PM
my wife wants an iphone and i'd love to give her my 8GB and get the 16GB, but i called ATT and they said that we'd have to start a new contract from the date of purchase of the new unit. :(
:apple:

So you have one contract and want two? How will back dating your current contact help you? :confused:

Tsurisuto
Feb 6, 2008, 06:12 PM
Note that O2 UK users don't need to sign a new contract if 'upgrading' from 8GB to 16GB (AKA buying another one and...well, getting rid of the other one somehow).


Where did you read this? Has O2 made any official statements on this matter? I'm just curious.

cause.solution
Feb 6, 2008, 06:20 PM
I was within my 14 day return policy with o2 so I went into the store today to ask about upgrading.
I took my iphone in and was able to pay the £60 (thankfully I didn't have to pay apple's restocking fees) for the upgrade and the guy took my current sim out and put it in the new 16gb iphone. All i had to do was activate the new iphone through itunes with my current o2 account and number. It's working fine.

So with o2 at least, you don't have to start a new o2 contract just to upgrade to the 16gb iphone.

Hope this helps at least some queries on the matter.

severe
Feb 6, 2008, 06:55 PM
In my case, that would be $499 - $300 for the old phone I sold in a matter of hours on Craigslist. $200 to double my storage AND get a new phone in perfect condition is not a bad deal, as far as I am concerned.

To you, maybe. My iPhone's still in perfect condition. $200 for 8 more GB? I'll pass and wait for 2.0.

Kedrik
Feb 6, 2008, 07:27 PM
To you, maybe. My iPhone's still in perfect condition. $200 for 8 more GB? I'll pass and wait for 2.0.

Hmmm, I still have a 4GB phone. I probably couldn't give it away on ebay. Well, maybe in another year I'll just cave and get whatever version is available then. maybe it'll make coffee and I can sell my Keurig on ebay.:D

mashinhead
Feb 6, 2008, 08:35 PM
well i'd like to know the answer to this as well. has anyone actually upgraded?

bdj21ya
Feb 6, 2008, 09:46 PM
Except in the case of the iPhone, apparently, since they're telling people to activate the new SIM and sign the new contract instead of swapping the old SIM to the new phone. That's what struck me as odd.

Yeah. For you and anybody else reading this, the answer is simple: you don't HAVE to "activate" the phone by signing a new contract with AT&T. There are ways around it, and they are well worth it. This "default" way is just for those who are either too lazy to figure out how to get around it, or too rich to care.

I'm fine with people being either of those, or a combination of the two, but I thought I'd help get the word out.

mikeinternet
Feb 6, 2008, 09:53 PM
my brother busted his iphone and went out and bought a new one. as far as i know he did not have to start the 2 year contract (that he already put months into) over.

UMHurricanes34
Feb 6, 2008, 10:07 PM
Why does AT&T have to overcomplicate such a simple thing?

Just let us switch the SIMs. Or Apple could just give iTunes the ability to deactivate and reactivate. Say I own an 8GB iPhone now, and go out and buy a 16GB. I should be able to plug the 16GB in and have the options presented in such a way as:

- New Customer, Sign Contract
- Existing Customer
- Existing iPhone user, deactivate previous and upgrade.


This would make life a whole lot easier. Perhaps this is how it's handled, but who really knows for sure? It'd be interesting to learn.

bretm
Feb 6, 2008, 10:33 PM
Ok. You're wrong. It's a pretty standard thing for an unsubsidized phone.

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't this like a ground-breakingly awesome thing?

bretm
Feb 6, 2008, 10:40 PM
my wife wants an iphone and i'd love to give her my 8GB and get the 16GB, but i called ATT and they said that we'd have to start a new contract from the date of purchase of the new unit. :(
:apple:

Are you on a family plan? If so, it's all the same contract. Does she have an ATT phone? If so, the contract is what is paying for it, and just like the iPhone, she should be able to UPGRADE that phone to an iPhone, since the iPhone isn't subsidized.

They should let you do it if she currently has an ATT acct. Seems logical to me. The only reason for making people sign a new contract is because they're buying a subsidized phone. Otherwise people would just get a new $50 phone every month (which actually costs ATT $300) and ATT would lose their shirt.

tony-in-japan
Feb 6, 2008, 11:43 PM
Rather than buy a new 16GB iPhone and swap your existing sim card into it which then leaves you with two iPhones, canít you just open your existing 8GB iPhone and upgrade the memory to 16GB?

How have Apple done it? It is still essentially the same phone as the 8GB version but with extra memory. It must be a simple process though... something like an extra 8GB flash chip inserted? Is there not a third-party company that produces memory that can be inserted manually by the user?

I am not an iPhone owner and have not see what it is like inside. So apologies if my thoughts are way off track.

overanalyzer
Feb 7, 2008, 12:16 AM
Yeah. For you and anybody else reading this, the answer is simple: you don't HAVE to "activate" the phone by signing a new contract with AT&T. There are ways around it, and they are well worth it. This "default" way is just for those who are either too lazy to figure out how to get around it, or too rich to care.

I'm fine with people being either of those, or a combination of the two, but I thought I'd help get the word out.

But what's the downside to activating? If you sign a "new" contract, but it doesn't extend any longer than your original 24 months would have, who cares? What's the point of subverting that?

Rather than buy a new 16GB iPhone and swap your existing sim card into it which then leaves you with two iPhones, canít you just open your existing 8GB iPhone and upgrade the memory to 16GB?

How have Apple done it? It is still essentially the same phone as the 8GB version but with extra memory. It must be a simple process though... something like an extra 8GB flash chip inserted? Is there not a third-party company that produces memory that can be inserted manually by the user?

I am not an iPhone owner and have not see what it is like inside. So apologies if my thoughts are way off track.

Considering the memory is most likely soldered in and they probably are using the same number of chips with double capacity per chip so that the actual board layout is the same, I'm pretty sure that a self-service upgrade would exceed all but the most hardcord modders' willingness to rip apart and reassemble their iPhone.

JtheLemur
Feb 7, 2008, 07:02 AM
Very simple answer to the "why can't I just swap SIMs" question, this is from high up the Apple Corporate chain, and related to problems with activation I had with a replacement iPhone: You can't swap SIMs from once iPhone to *brand new* one because Apple has whitelists of iPhone IMEI numbers on their end of things. When you activate a new iPhone, it doesn't only talk to AT&T - more importantly, it talks to Apple. In other words, if there's no record of the brand new iPhone on Apple's end, it won't work with your current SIM (unless you unlock the hardware, of course).

Otaviano
Feb 7, 2008, 08:10 AM
Situations like this really show how awful Apple's tactics with this phone are. You purchase the phone at 499 dollars, and are forced into a two year agreement. Now if you want to upgrade the phone, you purchase a new phone at another 499 dollars. They do the minimal in backdating the contract, but your old phone is a 499 dollar paperweight at that point. Apple should have the decency to unlock the damn thing at that point.

nc7r
Feb 7, 2008, 08:18 AM
Thing is, what can you do with the old phone as it's still locked to the Sim that's in it, yet that sim is now invalid. Can you sell it and have someone apply for an iPhone sim-card for it?

Otherwise it's going to be a bloody expensive upgrade, £269 down for your 8gb iPhone plug £329 for the 16gb one! All for an extra 8gb..

nbs2
Feb 7, 2008, 09:00 AM
well i'd like to know the answer to this as well. has anyone actually upgraded?

Your post, 9:35 ET

In my case, that would be $499 - $300 for the old phone I sold in a matter of hours on Craigslist. $200 to double my storage AND get a new phone in perfect condition is not a bad deal, as far as I am concerned.

This post, 4:34 ET

I don't think you were typing that post for 5 hours.

tomjleeds
Feb 7, 2008, 11:11 AM
Where did you read this? Has O2 made any official statements on this matter? I'm just curious.

You're just going to have to take my word for it for the time being I'm afraid...there's a detailed page somewhere on the O2 site but I can't for the life of me track the damn thing down.

EagerDragon
Feb 7, 2008, 11:23 AM
how much is it to upgrade from 8GB to 16GB?

It is not an upgrade, they don't give you credit for your old phone. You have to buy a new phone, so it cost the price of the new model of the phone which is 100 more than the 8 version.

BRBonowicz
Feb 7, 2008, 11:32 AM
Ok so I'm selling my 8GB iPhone on eBay right now and am going to pick up a 16GB today.

How do I deactivate and wipe clean the iPhone I'm selling? Do I have to do that? how is it that the new one will work and the old one won't.

I really do wish this was a simple SIM card swap.

ictiosapiens
Feb 7, 2008, 11:50 AM
You're just going to have to take my word for it for the time being I'm afraid...there's a detailed page somewhere on the O2 site but I can't for the life of me track the damn thing down.

http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/o2tariffsforiphone/existingcustomers/activatingyournew16gbiphone

mashinhead
Feb 7, 2008, 11:51 AM
How do I deactivate and wipe clean the iPhone I'm selling? Do I have to do that? how is it that the new one will work and the old one won't.

I really do wish this was a simple SIM card swap.

agreed. can we get one. simple. definitive. post. on how exactly this works. or what the best way to do this is. if you're selling your old phone do you do it with the sim in it? do you take it out. I read over on tuaw that if you activate a new sim in the new iphone with your same number it kills the old sim entirely, if you're selling your phone how do you give a sim to the new owner. Do you have to go get a new sim from at&t? Do you have to pay for that?

ewxlt
Feb 7, 2008, 11:57 AM
Apple has the iPhone user over a barrel. But, the product is usually so cool, they don't mind hanging out on the barrel.:o

tomjleeds
Feb 7, 2008, 12:11 PM
http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/o2tariffsforiphone/existingcustomers/activatingyournew16gbiphone

That's the badger. I can't find anything on the damn O2 site - rang up earlier today with a PAC code, was told to do it on the website instead, couldn't find it so rang back and the guy I spoke to said he had no idea how to find anything on the site as it's so unclear so did it manually for me :D

glennyboiwpg
Feb 7, 2008, 01:19 PM
um will people really spend $500 for an unlocked iphone?

If your not in one of the blessed countries that sell iphones (IE. CANADA) then paying 500 dollars for an unlocked iphone is your only choice. (unless you want to unlock it yourself)

glennyboiwpg
Feb 7, 2008, 01:25 PM
Hmmm, I still have a 4GB phone. I probably couldn't give it away on ebay. Well, maybe in another year I'll just cave and get whatever version is available then. maybe it'll make coffee and I can sell my Keurig on ebay.:D

Actually you could probably get a nice little profit for your OLD 4GB phone. Just sell it on ebay to a poor canadian who isn't allowed to buy one from an apple store.

I have a week 52 phone and have "Unlocked" it by using a turboSIM knockoff (SimpleSim) It works... but it sucks cause the phone will say "INVALID SIM" randomally, and then you have to reboot the phone before you can connect again.

Since your phone is older, it probably isn't tooo hard to unlock it using software which I hear, once you do, it works well.

So don't give up on your 4 gig iphone yet!

SteveSparks
Feb 7, 2008, 01:41 PM
You sign a new contract? But they backdate it?

AT&T, make your own internal billing easier!!

This seems standard since the contract references the unique ID of the equipment being used as part of the contract. This could also be done with a contract amendment, however execution of a superseded contract is basically the same thing..

Steve

question fear
Feb 7, 2008, 02:37 PM
IIRC, AT&T tries really hard to force a new SIM on you when you buy a new phone. Not sure why, but the "instructions" usually tell you to leave the new SIM in the new phone and not to put your old SIM in, then call customer service to deactivate the old phone and reactivate the new one. So it's not a shocker, although it might have more technical reasons than AT&T simply being stubborn and not wanting people to know SIMs can move from phone to phone.

hexonxonx
Feb 7, 2008, 02:49 PM
I transfered my phone muber to two new iPhones in the past two months and both times, the iPhone would not activate till I put the sim the iPhone came with back in. I had always heard that all I had to do was put my old sim in the new phone and then activate it through iTunes, but that was wrong. As I said, both iPhones would not activate till I put the sim that the phone came with back in. This was simply transfering my number to the new iPhone.

This happened again when I bought my new 16GB iPhone, I had to use the sim the new iPhone came with.

Also I did not have to start a new AT&T contract all those times. I still have all my thousands of rollover minutes since July 6, I have over 2500 rollver minutes that I will never use and I still am 6 months into my contract as I should have been.

maestro55
Feb 7, 2008, 03:22 PM
Here is my question, lets assume I keep my current iPhone for the entire two years of my contract and then after that we have a 2nd or 3rd generation iPhone, if I go to Apple and buy the phone will I have to sign another two year contract to use it? If Apple keeps making great phones I plan to stick with them, but I hate being in a contract with AT%T.

victry1
Feb 7, 2008, 10:39 PM
I would like to know what is going to happen at the end of my 2 year contract & suppose I go onto a different phone. Is my iPhone going to work as an iPod, notes, Wi-fi? I mean it has Wi-fi, I would hope it would still work as everything but a phone. Has there been any word on when they will be able to be unlocked, say if you want to travel to a different country? I'm new to AT&T and unlocked phones, etc. I love my phone-think it's great, but when I think about these issues IMO they need to be dealt with. I wasn't thrilled switching to AT&T to begin with, but to think I'm going to have a brick if don't continue after 2 years is bothersome.

I realize no one knows about @ the end of the 2 years what it's going to be, but, I for one am going to email Apple.

I think the AT&T rate for the iPhone plan is good, but what if you switch plans, say to a BB & 6 months later back to the iPhone - is that another 2 year contract.:confused:

jlongale
Feb 7, 2008, 11:22 PM
I know this might sound kinda dumb and might have already been asked and answered already but what about those of us who went the cheap route and have a 4gb can I upgrade to a 16gb with no problem. Cause all I've read here is about the 8gb to the 16gb. And can some one answer if you can upgrade with out extending your contract. All I read is people saying "yes....but." Its a simple yes or no question.

ThunderSkunk
Feb 8, 2008, 01:51 AM
Its a simple yes or no question.

No.

(Unless you want a "yes, but...")

hexonxonx
Feb 8, 2008, 01:53 AM
No.

(Unless you want a "yes, but...")

Yes but...

Burgess07
Feb 9, 2008, 08:06 PM
According to http://www.macintouch.com/iphone/faq.html:
"iPhone will not work until activated with iTunes. If service is subsequently cancelled, iPhone functions as an iPod and WiFi-only internet device, without phone or SMS texting functionality."

victry1
Feb 9, 2008, 11:27 PM
According to http://www.macintouch.com/iphone/faq.html:
"iPhone will not work until activated with iTunes. If service is subsequently cancelled, iPhone functions as an iPod and WiFi-only internet device, without phone or SMS texting functionality."

Yes, I saw that. However, the guy at the Apple store said it would not work at all without an AT&T contract. On another forum though we came to the conclusion it would remain operable as long as there are no updates.

DMann
Feb 10, 2008, 08:48 PM
Yes, I saw that. However, the guy at the Apple store said it would not work at all without an AT&T contract. On another forum though we came to the conclusion it would remain operable as long as there are no updates.

Not true, it will work as an iPod and Wi-Fi device, with the help of a little hacking at the very most.

ny3ranger
Feb 11, 2008, 12:28 AM
I think so. When i first bought mine. There was something wrong with the battery. So when I took it back they just took a new one out of the box and switched the sim card and gave it to me. So i have to assume that it would be the same between the 8 gig to the 16 gig. And possibly with the 2nd gen as well.

This makes no sense whatsoever. If I put my old SIM in, and throw the new one away, don't I just avoid this hassle altogether? I thought iPhones worked with any iTunes activated SIM--put it in and connect to iTunes.

Maybe they figure people will be too stupid to understand the paperclip SIM replacement diagram.



Usually, at least here in the U.S., people buy new phones subsidized, so the contract extension makes sense. But for most any company specific phone (AT&T locked in this case), or for any unlocked SIM phone, you just pop your SIM in and it works. No need to deal with the company at all if you're buying unsubsidized.

Jade Cambell
Feb 11, 2008, 03:07 AM
I just successfully upgraded to a 16GB iPhone. Here are the steps to take. It's crucial that you follow this order:

1. Have both phones unplugged from any computer.
2. Swap the SIM cards.
3. Plug in the 16GB iPhone, and activate it, saying you want to "replace an existing phone" (choose that option during activation).
4. Go through with the whole activation process. Let the 16GB phone sync with the backup of your 8GB phone.
5. Plug the 8GB phone with the 16GBs SIM into a different mac. It'll say that the SIM isn't valid and that you need to put in the SIM that is linked to your AT&T contract. Press and hold the home and wake/sleep buttons for 6 or 7 seconds until the Apple appears on the iPhones screen. This restores it and the phone now sees the brand new SIM as a perfectly functional SIM capable of activating the phone with a new contract. "Let's Get Started" will appear in iTunes now, on the Mac that the 8GB phone is plugged into. The first step of genuine activation.
6. You can then unplug the 8GB iPhone, and sell it, or whatever you wanna do with it. It's like a refurbished phone.

hexonxonx
Feb 11, 2008, 03:12 AM
Nevermind, carry on. :D