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jefhatfield
Nov 9, 2003, 12:39 PM
i like the G4 ibook very much...it has altivec, combo drive, great battery time, it is lightweight, and is $1099 usd

not bad

...but then put yourselves in the shoes of a first time computer laptop buyer (especially k-12 student or college student in these recessionary times)

i just came back from circuit city...they have friggin $799 dollar PC laptops

they have the combo drive, but larger hard drives, way more software, larger screen at 14" and 15" inches, they are lightweight, laptop magazine posts decent battery times, and these "entry" level PC laptops go anywhere from 2.0 to 2.4 ghz...that is crazy

and then there is always dell

and i saw a superdrive PC laptop for under a grand and an 80 gb hard drive!!

daveL
Nov 9, 2003, 12:47 PM
So go buy one.

leet1
Nov 9, 2003, 12:48 PM
512 megs ram ddr
30 gig hd
amd athlon 2400
cdr/dvd
32-128meg adjustable integrated graphics card with 350mhz proc
14 inch screen
6-7 hours worth of battery in power saving mode

$800 after rebate

Thank you Compaq :D

jefhatfield
Nov 9, 2003, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by daveL
So go buy one.

he he

actually, when i bought my ibook in 1999 for my wife, she bought me a PC laptop the very nest day and we have used both of these for 4 years

in those days, the ibook was problem free and still is, but the PC laptop had windows 98 so i would have to reinstall the operating system every 8 months or so since then...that is a major headache

but that was my only real problem with the PC laptop

but now that the PC world has windows xp, which is much more stable, then one wouldn't have to reinstall the os more than every other year or so...windows 98 was not the best thing, dos and all, but now PCs actually have a decent operating system and the value for dollar in a PC today is excellent

that being said, i like most renditions of os x and os 9 better than most renditions of windows

the one thing that makes windows xp better than windows 2000 is the very nice looking interface/gui...but who do you think microsoft borrowed the aqua look from:eek: ;) :p

hvfsl
Nov 9, 2003, 01:03 PM
After recently buying a cheap PC laptop, I have to say they are not that good.

1. The screens are rubbish compared to ibook/powerbook screens, it looks like they only display 16bit colour when it says they are displaying 32bit. Most sub $1500 PC laptops I have seen, have rubbish screens.

2. The ibook/powerbook are actually faster than most PC laptops in games. The only PC laptops that are faster, are the ones that only last for 30mins on the battery, which makes them pointless as a laptop.

3. The build quality on most PC laptops is not very good, even the expensive ones.

So while PC laptops are cheaper in the low end, you get more for your money with a Mac laptop.

jefhatfield
Nov 9, 2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by leet1
512 megs ram ddr
30 gig hd
amd athlon 2400
cdr/dvd
32-128meg adjustable integrated graphics card with 350mhz proc
14 inch screen
6-7 hours worth of battery in power saving mode

$800 after rebate

Thank you Compaq :D

you must be sh**ting me!

that is a great deal

the 800 dollar models i saw on the PC side had the celeron processor, which has the pentium 4 core but much less level 2 cache...but that athlon? now that is a kick butt processor for an 800 dollar laptop

level 2 cache does not matter much for internet, email, office, programming, and most things, but for games and adobe professional level graphics, it is a must

my graphic design friend i know used to use a pentium II or pentium III for his graphics with photoshop and dreamweaver but then he switched to an athlon and it beats his partner's G4 in graphics

...and for half the price

i originally didn't think amd would release the athlon in a mobile form due to heat issues and the original mobile athlon, called the athlon 4, did not do any better than the mobile pentium III, but when the mobile athlon xp, and the later athlon 1800s, 2000s, and faster models came out for laptops, it posed a real threat to intel and their mobile pentium 4s

a mobile pentium 4 at 2.8 ghz with 512 mb of ddr ram is probably the fastest laptop on the market that is out there that can give a 5 hour battery time, but the cheapest one you can get is 1300 dollars, no match dollar for dollar to your 800 dollar mobile athlon

i would like to see your laptop against the 2.8 ghz mobile pentium 4 and perhaps there would be no perceivable difference in speed, even on photoshop

leet1
Nov 9, 2003, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by hvfsl
1. The screens are rubbish compared to ibook/powerbook screens, it looks like they only display 16bit colour when it says they are displaying 32bit. Most sub $1500 PC laptops I have seen, have rubbish screens.


I've compared my screen to a powerbook. Mine looks exactly the same, not rubish.


2. The ibook/powerbook are actually faster than most PC laptops in games. The only PC laptops that are faster, are the ones that only last for 30mins on the battery, which makes them pointless as a laptop.

Your kidding right? Faster processor and good graphics card =slower? :rolleyes:

3. The build quality on most PC laptops is not very good, even the expensive ones.

So while PC laptops are cheaper in the low end, you get more for your money with a Mac laptop

My screens a little flimsy, but its able to stand me lugging it around to all my classes monday-friday.

You said even the expensive ones? Have you ever had an IBM PC? Those things are freaking great! Build quality is as good as it gets compared to pc/macs

leet1
Nov 9, 2003, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield
you must be sh**ting me!

that is a great deal

i would like to see your laptop against the 2.8 ghz mobile pentium 4 and perhaps there would be no perceivable difference in speed, even on photoshop

Yup! even got a free A drive with it. If your in the market for a PC laptop, just wait around for the rebates, they are great, hehe.

It would lose against the 2.8 p4, even with the cache Im betting. The 2400 that I have is about equal to a 2.4-2.5 P4

jefhatfield
Nov 9, 2003, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by hvfsl
After recently buying a cheap PC laptop, I have to say they are not that good.

1. The screens are rubbish compared to ibook/powerbook screens, it looks like they only display 16bit colour when it says they are displaying 32bit. Most sub $1500 PC laptops I have seen, have rubbish screens.

2. The ibook/powerbook are actually faster than most PC laptops in games. The only PC laptops that are faster, are the ones that only last for 30mins on the battery, which makes them pointless as a laptop.

3. The build quality on most PC laptops is not very good, even the expensive ones.

So while PC laptops are cheaper in the low end, you get more for your money with a Mac laptop.


that's what i would tell everybody back in 1999 with my wife's 300 mhz ibook vs my 366 mhz PC laptop and it was true...the ibook was faster even though the numbers said the PC should be faster

but now, in late 2003, there is no way you can say a 1 ghz G4 ibook is faster than a comparably priced 3.2 ghz pentium 4 laptop

the PC world has really left us behind in the speed department and it gets worse every month

the one place where macs are better is in the build and design...interior wise, PCs and macs share many of the same components..uma architecture, crucial or comparable ram, toshiba, hitachi, or ibm drives and optical drives, etc...and a lot of it manufactured in the same companies in taiwan

if the PC world ever starts making their stuff actually look as good as macs and make them as durable, especially for school kids, then apple inc is curtains

i think the emac for schools and sturdy ibook are great for students and they can take a tremendous amount of abuse and this is the lifesaver for apple inc since schools buy boatloads of these machines year after year...and mr. dell cannot seem to come up with anything built as sturdy as those...he he

...but if mr dell did hit the education field with durable child proof machines, we are in trouble on the education front...just look at classrooms, those big black plastic dells are everywhere and they are attacking our students like something out of invasion of the body snatchers;)

beefcake
Nov 9, 2003, 01:27 PM
I'll have to agree that if you're looking for a decent laptop, the PC market is a lot more promising. However, as someone pointed out, there are little things that aren't pointed out in the specs that can be annoying. I'll use my roommates Vaio as an example. First, its fan never stops, and can rival the air conditioner when he's watching a movie. Second, the screen, though good from a head on angle, shows shadowy negatives if you tilt your head 3 ft. to the right or left. Third, the keyboard, at least to me, feels unnatural.

Its a fast machine, I can't argue that, but I get the impression that the computer was built to house the specs and nothing more. iBooks and Powerbooks seem like a much tighter unit. The exception, though, is the IBM T40, which I think is an incredible computer, and I probably would have bought one myself had I done a little more research.

jefhatfield
Nov 9, 2003, 01:31 PM
i don't mean to beech about apple inc and i am into apple...just look at my signature

but instead of always pointing out bad points, i want to suggest a solution:

dear mr. jobs,

the education market is your number one market in terms of dollars and cents...and i assume laptops are going to be an increasingly larger part of that lifeline

1) lower the price of G4 ibooks to match mr. dell

2) and put an annodized aluminum shell on them to make your already tough ibook that much tougher and watch mr. dell run for the hills

sincerely,

jef
4th grader
hometown, usa

...now it would be something like that i would simply state in a letter to apple...the education front is where apple can gain more market share and without the school kids, apple inc cannot survive

G5orbust
Nov 9, 2003, 01:33 PM
Personally, Id never buy a PC lappy below 1200$. Why, you ask? The simple answer is contruction quality. If you have great components in a laptop without the price, something had to be cut, and that something is more than likely to be part quality. Maybe its cheap RAM? Or maybe a piss poor hard drive? Refurbished parts maybe? Older chips that don't run as well battery wise (desktop chips are the more likely) or maybe integrated graphics?


You see, you have to look at this from all angles. Yes, great price, but are you going to be scrapping it 6 months later because the mobo fried or the hard drive failed and your piss poor 1 year warranty doesn't cover enough to make it worthwhile to fix.

leet1
Nov 9, 2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by G5orbust
You see, you have to look at this from all angles. Yes, great price, but are you going to be scrapping it 6 months later because the mobo fried or the hard drive failed and your piss poor 1 year warranty doesn't cover enough to make it worthwhile to fix.


2 year warranty that covers everything from the screen to the hard drive to the motherboard.

I've had a compaq before<refurbished 533mhz amd about 3-4 years ago I think>. You can't down Compaq warranty, they have one of the best, hehe

jefhatfield
Nov 9, 2003, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by G5orbust
Personally, Id never buy a PC lappy below 1200$. Why, you ask? The simple answer is contruction quality. If you have great components in a laptop without the price, something had to be cut, and that something is more than likely to be part quality. Maybe its cheap RAM? Or maybe a piss poor hard drive? Refurbished parts maybe? Older chips that don't run as well battery wise (desktop chips are the more likely) or maybe integrated graphics?


You see, you have to look at this from all angles. Yes, great price, but are you going to be scrapping it 6 months later because the mobo fried or the hard drive failed and your piss poor 1 year warranty doesn't cover enough to make it worthwhile to fix.

in the past, the hardware angle was an issue...but those cheap hardware PCs like packard bell and such have been chased out of the marketplace

good components, inside at least, exist in macs and PCs alike

but it is on the outside where macs beat PCs in terms of laptops

at least the PCs i have seen in stores are not as sturdy as apple portables...but some say the ibm laptops today are built decently tough...but since ibm scrapped their retail division, i can't just go into a store and see those new ibm models...i would have to buy one to really see how tough they are on the outside

but even though components are good on the inside, if you drop your laptop, then most PCs will be damaged

...time and time again i have heard stories about how kids abuse ibooks and they keep on ticking...my clamshell ibook is lke a sherman tank:p

dieselg4
Nov 9, 2003, 01:52 PM
I love apple laptops as much as anyone else, but at almost every price point, they are counterd by faster, and usually cheaper pc laptops. Benchmarks prove this (see laptop comparison at Barefeats.)
It's great that Powerbooks (and now iBooks too) include thigns that alot fo PC Laptops charge x-tra for or don't include (firewire, DVD-RW, sometimes CD-RW's, 802.11g, etc., dedicated video memory/processors) but when it some down to the bottom line, Mac Desktop performance & Mac laptop performance are worlds apart.
As good a chip as the G4 is, its just not more than twice as fast as a Pentium 4 m. It might be as fast as a Centrino, but Centrinos run clock out much faster than a G4.

Apple needs to get a revised CPU in their laptop lineup fast!

jefhatfield
Nov 9, 2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by leet1
2 year warranty that covers everything from the screen to the hard drive to the motherboard.

I've had a compaq before<refurbished 533mhz amd about 3-4 years ago I think>. You can't down Compaq warranty, they have one of the best, hehe

when i got my compaq presario 1272 laptop four years ago, i found it to be really flimsy compared to my ibook

but compaq has really beefed up their machines since then and they are built much tougher these days...i still think the ibook has the edge on toughness and the ibook can withtstand direct falls onto hard surfaces and their hard, thick shell and rubber mounted hard drive are designed for that

i don't go around dropping my laptops but many school children do, but i know compaq is going in the right direction in terms of making a strong machine for kids...they still do have a ways to go

i like the toshibas and hp laptops a little better in terms of outer shell toughness

the toughest laptops i have ever seen are the panasonic toughbooks and they are even more durable than the ibooks but you can't get one for under two grand and that is their weak point...firefighters, police, and the military use the panasonics but that company should approach the education market with a sub-1000 dollar laptop for kids

leet1
Nov 9, 2003, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield
i like the toshibas and hp laptops a little better in terms of outer shell toughness



HP/Compaq now are pretty much the same products, except for a few outer looks, colors, labels. :D


*Forgot to include that this model came with firewire plug in as well<4-pin> handles video great, if anyone was wondering

jefhatfield
Nov 9, 2003, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by leet1
HP/Compaq now are pretty much the same products, except for a few outer looks, colors, labels. :D


*Forgot to include that this model came with firewire plug in as well<4-pin> handles video great, if anyone was wondering

when they were two separate companies hp had the more durable and prettier machines but compaq had the better prices and better market share

in those days compaq was number 1 in retail store sales, hp was number 2, and emachines was number 3

i assume the retail leader is hp-compaq these days, but i wonder if dell sells more machines than hp-compaq? but dell is mail order only, but i did see gateways at costco and i thought outside of gateway stores, gateway was only online like dell

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2003, 04:56 PM
The problem I see is that PC laptops at the same price point of the iBooks weigh a pound or two more.

Anymore when you are buying a laptop you aren't paying so much for such and such feature or better parts but for size and weight. Typically the more money the smaller and lighter they are. As far as I can tell Apples are right in there on price point when you are comparing size and weight.

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2003, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by leet1
512 megs ram ddr
30 gig hd
amd athlon 2400
cdr/dvd
32-128meg adjustable integrated graphics card with 350mhz proc
14 inch screen
6-7 hours worth of battery in power saving mode

$800 after rebate

Thank you Compaq :D

What model was that?

iJon
Nov 9, 2003, 05:05 PM
but yet schools are still cranking out millions for all these ibooks for the schools. they may be cheaper but its still no mac, and thats what matters to me.

iJon

G5orbust
Nov 9, 2003, 05:09 PM
well, good luck finding a 1000$ PC laptop with dedicated graphics memory, let alone 32MB of Radeon 9200 mobility power!

iJon
Nov 9, 2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by G5orbust
well, good luck finding a 1000$ PC laptop with dedicated graphics memory, let alone 32MB of Radeon 9200 mobility power!
which will only matter playing games, and that 800mhz g4 is gonna play games like crap if you ask me.

iJon

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2003, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by G5orbust
well, good luck finding a 1000$ PC laptop with dedicated graphics memory, let alone 32MB of Radeon 9200 mobility power!

I've been looking at Dell and Compaq both have dedicated video for under a thousand but they're Radeon 7500s and the like.

All and all the iBook for it's size and weight is a real killer deal be it PC or Mac.

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2003, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by iJon
which will only matter playing games, and that 800mhz g4 is gonna play games like crap if you ask me.

iJon

If you want to play QuakeIII or the original Unreal Tournament or any of the last generation games which are still quite good and cheap then it will be more then adequate. Besides if you're on a small budget you're not getting something for gaming any way. It's probably for school or work.

leet1
Nov 9, 2003, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by G5orbust
well, good luck finding a 1000$ PC laptop with dedicated graphics memory, let alone 32MB of Radeon 9200 mobility power!


With only an allowed 640 megs, there is no choice but to use a memory dedicated card like that, lol

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2003, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by leet1
With only an allowed 640 megs, there is no choice but to use a memory dedicated card like that, lol

Actually if you order the right chips you can have over a gig in the iBook. Also the Dells I have been looking at will only hold 512MBs of RAM and they use integrated graphics.

Again what was the model of Compaq you picked up? I'm looking for my sister.

leet1
Nov 9, 2003, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Besides if you're on a small budget you're not getting something for gaming any way. It's probably for school or work.

But its so nice when it can be for both at a cheep price.

I can throw any map on UT2003 at this computer and it plays them so smoothly, all while that boring history teacher lectures on about stuff I just read in the chapter I read the night before, lol


I do wish I had a choice of a 12 inch screen though. Don't know why compaq/hp doesn't offer this choice.

leet1
Nov 9, 2003, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Actually if you order the right chips you can have over a gig in the iBook. Also the Dells I have been looking at will only hold 512MBs of RAM and they use integrated graphics.

Again what was the model of Compaq you picked up? I'm looking for my sister.


Presario 2100z I think, www.compaq.com or www.hpshopping.com choose the one with the amd inside :D

Don't get that dell then, esh, thats terrible, lol.

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2003, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by leet1
But its so nice when it can be for both at a cheep price.

I can throw any map on UT2003 at this computer and it plays them so smoothly, all while that boring history teacher lectures on about stuff I just read in the chapter I read the night before, lol


I do wish I had a choice of a 12 inch screen though. Don't know why compaq/hp doesn't offer this choice.

Dell offers it but they start at nearly $1500 after rebate. The reason that Compaq/HP don't offer it is because due to the size they can't offer the low price point that they want to. Again the reason one laptop costs more then another is because of how compact it is. The bigger they are the less development it requires and the closer they can make the price to a desktop. PC desktops for the most part are uninspired whipped together boxes and that's why they can offer such a low price point besides the low price of parts.

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by leet1
Presario 2100z I think, www.compaq.com or www.hpshopping.com choose the one with the amd inside :D

Don't get that dell then, esh, thats terrible, lol.

The 2100z doesn't offer integrated graphics thus a higher price point. I priced one out exactly as you spec'd and it came to $974. I was hoping to get what you got for my sister that's why I'm asking.

G5orbust
Nov 9, 2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by leet1
With only an allowed 640 megs, there is no choice but to use a memory dedicated card like that, lol

Since when did it become commonplace to go above 512MB with a PC laptop? Apple put that dedicated chip in so it could make its low end ibook a cut above the rest of those PC laptops. The 12 inch screen is its biggest hurdle, because people see 15 inchers for the same price.

Besides, any laptop worth investing more than 256MB of RAM in would more than likely have a dedicated graphics controller.

I challenge you:

Find me a new (that means NOT from Ebay or any other auction shop) PC laptop with better than a Mobility radeon 7000 and has to have at least 32MB of dedicated VRAM. Find me one for under 1150$ and I will concede my arguement.

leet1
Nov 9, 2003, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by G5orbust
Since when did it become commonplace to go above 512MB with a PC laptop?

I challenge you:

Find me a new (that means NOT from Ebay or any other auction shop) PC laptop with better than a Mobility radeon 7000 and has to have at least 32MB of dedicated VRAM. Find me one for under 1150$ and I will concede my arguement.

Since when? I don't know. I might buy another 256 or 512 when I get some money together.

Sorry, not accepting this challenge, lol. I have no problems with an integrated card. It hasn't slowed down on any games I've thrown at it<gta3, ut, ut2003, a lot of games I've downloaded from kazaa and tried out, lol> so I don't think it matters weither or not a laptop has one<unless its upgradable like the one from vodoo.com>

leet1
Nov 9, 2003, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
I priced one out exactly as you spec'd and it came to $974. I was hoping to get what you got for my sister that's why I'm asking.

Theres always rebates going on. Hold out for a little while. Its worth it, hehe

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by leet1
Theres always rebates going on. Hold out for a little while. Its worth it, hehe

Well they all currently have $100-$300 in rebates and I can't find a deal much better then that.

iJon
Nov 9, 2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
If you want to play QuakeIII or the original Unreal Tournament or any of the last generation games which are still quite good and cheap then it will be more then adequate. Besides if you're on a small budget you're not getting something for gaming any way. It's probably for school or work.
oh i know, but g5 made it sound like the ibook was some killer gaming machine with that card.

iJon

lmalave
Nov 9, 2003, 05:53 PM
Well, even though there are laptops you can get for $800, I think Apple is hitting the sweet spot with Edu-priced iBooks starting at $949. At that price, if a kid wants an iBook, he/she is gonna pay an extra couple hundred bucks to get the iBook. Keep in mind Apple is a small player in the computer marketplace, so it has to follow a differentiation strategy. A Mac will never be the cheapest computer out there in any category (except maybe 2200 CPU massively parallel computers).

As an aside, that's why it's in Apple's best interest *not* to use an Intel processor and to differentiate its operating system clearly from Windows. When you're a small player struggling for market share, having a well-differentiated product (as long as its a quality product), will more or less guarantee you at least some small market share, because some people will *prefer* the things that make your product different.

In my case, for example, OS X is the only game in town. I'm a fan of Unix but I got sick of just trying to get the simplest things working on my Linux laptops and desktops. OS X is the only user-friendly Unix ever invented, so therefore it provides great value to me and I am willing to pay an extra couple hundred dollars for that preference. For other people there will be other things about the Mac that they will prefer. But the point is, the only hope Apple has of survival is in creating incentives for people to spend more on a Mac. The right approach will never be to try to make the cheapest computer in the market place. Let Dell duke it out with Taiwanese and Chinese companies for that part of the market.

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2003, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by lmalave
Well, even though there are laptops you can get for $800, I think Apple is hitting the sweet spot with Edu-priced iBooks starting at $949. At that price, if a kid wants an iBook, he/she is gonna pay an extra couple hundred bucks to get the iBook. Keep in mind Apple is a small player in the computer marketplace, so it has to follow a differentiation strategy. A Mac will never be the cheapest computer out there in any category (except maybe 2200 CPU massively parallel computers)........

Actually the iBook is the cheapest in it's category. That of tough compact low weight laptops. As far as I can no one else even comes close.

lmalave
Nov 9, 2003, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Actually the iBook is the cheapest in it's category. That of tough compact low weight laptops. As far as I can no one else even comes close.

Right, so it attracts customers that place some monetary value on:

- toughness
- compactness
- low weight

Different customers will place different values on these, though. For example, what dollar value would you place on "toughness". The point is, every computer buyer has their own set of preferences. For example, you can find compact low weight computers for the same price as the iBook. But the iBook is marketing compactness, low weight, *and* toughness - perfect for the kid that wants to toss their laptop in a backpack with their other books.

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2003, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by lmalave
Right, so it attracts customers that place some monetary value on:

- toughness
- compactness
- low weight

Different customers will place different values on these, though. For example, what dollar value would you place on "toughness". The point is, every computer buyer has their own set of preferences. For example, you can find compact low weight computers for the same price as the iBook. But the iBook is marketing compactness, low weight, *and* toughness - perfect for the kid that wants to toss their laptop in a backpack with their other books.

True you can find a laptop that is as light but I can't find any that are as cheap. I realize it's my opinion but the whole reason a laptop is even portable to start with is weight and for the most part the lighter the better. If a desktop computer and monitor weighed under 10 pounds you could consider it a portable as well. The point is no matter how you look at it weight is for nearly everyone that knows what they are looking at the most important deciding factor.

lmalave
Nov 9, 2003, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
True you can find a laptop that is as light but I can't find any that are as cheap. I realize it's my opinion but the whole reason a laptop is even portable to start with is weight and for the most part the lighter the better. If a desktop computer and monitor weighed under 10 pounds you could consider it a portable as well. The point is no matter how you look at it weight is for nearly everyone that knows what they are looking at the most important deciding factor.

Dude, you're from Springfield? I grew up in Eugene. What the hell happened to the Ducks, man? Oh well, I shouldn't complain. When I lived there in the 80's the Ducks were the lovable losers with the goofy mascot, not the brash, showy "Miami of the West" team that they are now.

MacBandit
Nov 10, 2003, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by lmalave
Dude, you're from Springfield? I grew up in Eugene. What the hell happened to the Ducks, man? Oh well, I shouldn't complain. When I lived there in the 80's the Ducks were the lovable losers with the goofy mascot, not the brash, showy "Miami of the West" team that they are now.

Yup, there was a time the ducks were cool now well you would have to live here to understand. They are so damn full of themselves and arrogant that if I said what I wanted to do to Autzen stadium I would be thrown in jail and called a terrorist.

PM me if you want to talk further off topic.

lmalave
Nov 10, 2003, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
True you can find a laptop that is as light but I can't find any that are as cheap. I realize it's my opinion but the whole reason a laptop is even portable to start with is weight and for the most part the lighter the better. If a desktop computer and monitor weighed under 10 pounds you could consider it a portable as well. The point is no matter how you look at it weight is for nearly everyone that knows what they are looking at the most important deciding factor.

Well, here's what's going on in the PC world, here's a Buy.com best-seller:

http://www.buy.com/retail/computers/product.asp?sku=10357005&loc=101&adid=17070&dcaid=17070

It has basically the same specs as the iBook (12" Screen, 1.2" thick, built-in combo drive), and it comes in at an amazing 4.3 lbs., lighter even than the 12" AluBook. The price: $899. Granted, it's from a no-name brand and normal list price is $999 (it's on sale right now). But still, this is just one example. You can find other thin & lights for the same price as the iBook or less.

So it's back to differentiation from Apple. I would still buy the iBook instead of the above computer because of it's emphasis on toughness (and the reputation of Macs of being more durable anyways). And of course OS X and more attractive case design are also big differentiators.

switchingGeek
Nov 10, 2003, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by lmalave
Well, here's what's going on in the PC world, here's a Buy.com best-seller:

http://www.buy.com/retail/computers/product.asp?sku=10357005&loc=101&adid=17070&dcaid=17070


Have you seen an Averatec??!! It's flimsy? My friend has either the same model, or the one after this. It feels very very easy to break. He's had it only for a couple of months, and already if you tilt it you can hear something rattling. If you tilt the system while you are playing a cd/dvd, you hear a huge whine from the drive.

Battery life is 3 hrs (vs 5+ for the ibook). No separate video card, the display is not as good as mine (mine's a powerbook though).

Overall, I don't think his laptop is going to last for long. I would strongly discourage people from buying an Averatec. I've personally seen people have problems with Sony Vaio's, and Dell's. HPaq's have been better. Toshiba is good. IBM of course is supposedly the best.

Fortunately, if you want mobility (light, long battery life), the Ibook/Powerbooks, are in exactly the same price range as the Intel laptops, i.e., IBM, Toshiba, the Compaq X1000.

The Compaq X1000 is awesome, 15.2" widescreen is pretty good. and you can get it for $500 less than the 15" Pbook.

SiliconAddict
Nov 10, 2003, 11:28 AM
Iíve gone through 3 PC laptops in the last 5 years.
Compaq Presario 2120 1998-2001
Toshiba Satellite 2805-S402 2001-Present
Dell Latitude CPx 2003-Present.

The first was a Compaq Presario back in Ď97. OH MY GOD. What a colossal POS. I not kidding here folks. Biggest mistake of my life. That laptopís ONLY good feature was its speakers. Fantastic sound. But the rest of the system. In the 3 year period I took that laptop in for repairs 8 times. (To the theme of 12 days of x-mas) 4 fried power sources, 2 bad mothers, 1 bad BIOS and a one BAD BAD vid card. :mad:
The final time the system went bad, which was just before the warrantee expired I said enough of this crap and made sure that there was no WAY IN HELL they could fix the problem. Somehow the CPU in my laptop mad direct contact with a car battery. I swear I have no clue how it happened. *whistles and looks at his feet.* I took it in and they said they couldnít repair it so theyíd give me a choice. $1,000 towards a new laptop or a similar Compaq model for free. Fat chance with option two. I will NEVER touch a Compaq ever again. So I picked up my second laptop for 1/3 off the price of $3,000. This was in 2001. Itís a Toshiba Satellite 15Ē 800Mhz with the first gen GeForce 2Go GPU and CD-RW/DVD combo drive. In the time Iíve had it Iíve taken it in for repairs twice. Once for a dead battery from which I understand that is fairly common after a while, and the second time for a bad DVD drive. (Note to self-if your are going to RIP your own DVD collection do it on a drive other then your laptop.) Other then that itís a fantastic system. Fast enough to handle games and a sound system to die for. The thing has a subwoofer on it. :D My biggest complaint was battery life. To say it sucks is an understatement. About 2 hours IF Iím lucky.
This precipitated the acquisition of laptop 3. My company uses Dell. Iíve always liked the Latitude series and the CSx series we use here, but are currently phasing them out, have a strong batt life. 3+ hours which is good. So I ended up getting a system off of e-bay for $300 that included a second battery and CD-RW/DVD drive. In addition that that I jacked the hard drive up to 40GB, jacked the RAM up to 384MB. All told it cost me about $500-$600 for this system. It has a 13.3Ē display and is only 1.14Ē thick and weights in a 4.3 pounds. The best thing about it is the silence. I know when an app is eating the CPU clocks on the thing because that is the ONLY time the fan switches on. (And that usually happens when an app is behaving badly. Thank god for W2Kís task manager. Whatís even cooler, no pun intended is that itís a variable rate fan. (High-Medium-Low) So even what the fan is on its relatively quiet. Right now Iím in the market for a new laptop.
Doubtlessly some of you guys have seen my rants on the PowerBook. I love the design but every benchmark Iíve seen a comparable Pentium M based system soundly kicks the snot out of even the high end 1.33Ghz CPU found in the 17Ē PowerBook. As Iíve stated before I have no problems paying a premium for a PowerBook. After all its suppose to be the Porsche of the computer world right? But if Iím going to pay that premium I expect it to thrash the competition or at least keep pace. This isnít about the size of my dick and needing the most powerful thing out there. Its about future proofing my devices as much as possible and getting the most bang for my buck. This is why Iím in a holding pattern when it comes to getting a PowerBook. I want a G5 based PowerBook. I believe, hope?, that this will do to the PowerBooks what the G5 PowerMac did to the desktop line: Bring it in line with the competition. That and it will prepare the system for the day that Apple releases a 64-bit optimized version of OSX. It will happen. Its just a matter of time. Iíd rather be ready for that day then having to go out and plunk down more $$$$ on a new system. So for me its G5 or bust. Then and ONLY then will I consider switching. Or as I term it merging since I will continue to use my 13Ē Latitude in those situations where Iím looking for something highly portable.

paj
Nov 10, 2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Iíve gone through 3 PC laptops in the last 5 years.
Some people on this board have gone through 3 15" powerbooks in the last 5 weeks!
:p

beefcake
Nov 10, 2003, 12:44 PM
siliconaddict: If you can't wait for the G5 PB, get a T40 IBM. Fantastic machine, its only downside is its size, but its very light to make up for this. I love my powerbook, but the worst thing you can do is switch prematurely and be stuck with a foreign OS on a machine that doesn't meet your expectations.

Powerbook G5
Nov 10, 2003, 01:09 PM
My sister has a Toshiba laptop that my dad bought her for $1200. It has a 2.4 GHz P4, 512 megs RAM, a DVD/CD-RW combo drive, 60 gig HD, and I think an integrated Intel graphics card. Sure, it is cheaper than my PowerBook and has a faster processor, but it is also huge, heavy, sounds like a hair dryer, and gives off more heat than a space heater. Not to mention I personally think it is slow and she's had quite a few problems with Windows such as her video drivers becoming corrupt for no apparent reason, her sound sometimes stops working for no good reason, she's had 3 viruses since getting it in April, and as I mentioned, it sounds like a hair dryer.

ethernet76
Nov 10, 2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by leet1
Sorry, not accepting this challenge, lol. I have no problems with an integrated card. It hasn't slowed down on any games I've thrown at it<gta3, ut, ut2003, a lot of games I've downloaded from kazaa and tried out, lol> so I don't think it matters weither or not a laptop has one<unless its upgradable like the one from vodoo.com>

I can run those games on my 675 p3 with a 5-year-old graphics card if i want. Try benchmarking the system on highest settings and see what happens. (I use 3dMark)

dieselg4
Nov 10, 2003, 01:15 PM
One of my friends purchased a Fujitsu P-5000 series laptop. Typical ultra-portable, its looks like computer wrapped arund an optical drive. Its way small 10.4" screen is too tiny, however, esp. at tis native 1280 x seomthing odd pixels. Needless tosay she has her fonts pumped up. Its also kinda fat - about 1.44" inches thick. Its mettalic plastic issomewhere between stylish and garish. I believe its a Centrino 1. something.

Its plenty snappy but but too anoying for a dedicated computer, i think. Also, being a bit of a style queen i think my PB 12" is has much cleaner lines and looks more sophisticated. I ahve to admit thought, the Centrino runs circles around my G4 867.

I_Harf
Nov 10, 2003, 02:21 PM
I bought a SONY notebook 2 years ago...when the first "jet-setters" were making there debut. Its a PIII 750mhz with 128mb ram. Also with it to make it functionable, I have the "docking station" which has a dvd drive and a floppy drive on it. If I could sum up my experience with this thing in two words it would be "IT BLOWS". After a year the notebook would shut off after 10 minutes, literally, just shut off. $400 later they said it wouldn't do that....but it did. Now I get an error message that says "your hard drive is about to fail, back up all your data immediately, etc." basically telling me, "go shoot yourself, you threw away $2500". I hate this thing. The fan is going the whole time while it is on. For those of you who have had pleasent experiences with PC notebooks, I envy you, but because of this bad experience I am looking elseware, hence Apple Powerbook 15" (oh god do I want one). Now I bought my first laptop on looks, and I said I would never do it again, for I claim in my head "I know too much about computers to ever make that mistake again" WRONG. I am convinced Apple Powerbook's are female, they are so G-d damn attractive I crave them...I guess I need some assurance that when I buy this dream creature that I will not only be pleased with its beauty, but also its reliability, performance and provide justification for making the "switch" and throwing away even more money.

Isaiah

PS I have started a thread in which I ask for some help...please help me out! Thanks, in advance.

Powerbook G5
Nov 10, 2003, 04:00 PM
As an owner of a 15" PowerBook, I have to say that they are incredible machines. Although I haven't experienced any defects, there are a number of people complaining of screen issues, so I would recommend waiting for Apple to switch manufacturers so you don't end up with a bum LCD. As far as the laptop itself, it's got a great mix of high end features, speed, portability, and beauty. I hope if you do get one that it is everything you hope for.

SiliconAddict
Nov 10, 2003, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by beefcake
siliconaddict: If you can't wait for the G5 PB, get a T40 IBM. Fantastic machine, its only downside is its size, but its very light to make up for this. I love my powerbook, but the worst thing you can do is switch prematurely and be stuck with a foreign OS on a machine that doesn't meet your expectations.

Yah everyone keeps telling me that. The IBM's are dang nice. My company just, literally weeks ago, drop dell as our laptop provider and moved to IBM. Have yet to get any in this office though.
What sucks is I keep threatening on these threads that if they don't come out with a G5 I'm gonna get a Pentium M. Who am I kidding?!?!? :rolleyes: :( I'm going to end up waiting. I havenít waited 7 months to get another PC laptop. *sighs* trapped between heaven and hell.

*pictures Jobs browsing the forum smiling* ARRRGGGGHHHH!!!! ;)

Powerbook G5
Nov 10, 2003, 04:37 PM
Of course, Jobs is reading your post as we speak from his PowerBook G5 while he smiles. :D

beefcake
Nov 10, 2003, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Of course, Jobs is reading your post as we speak from his PowerBook G5 while he smiles. :D
He's smiling because he's saving so much money in energy costs, as a PB G5 in every room has abolished all previous heating costs :p

I want to see one as much as the next guy, but it won't be for a while.

ITR 81
Nov 10, 2003, 07:48 PM
I believe next G5 laptops will appear not too long after the next G5 powermacs come out.

I've used a Panasonic Toughbook through the mil. It's like a $1,500 laptop and can play games and all even though your not suppose to on gov. computers. But I've seen video stop working on about 10 of them, screen going off and on, and the OS going blue screen on us didn't help either. To me it was clunky piece of plastic. I rather have my G4 15.2 titianum any day then that plastic crap I use to work with. I've recently switched two PC users to a 17inch PB's and 1 to a 2GHz G5 PM.