Theif!

[carbonmotion]

:)

[patrick0brien]

-carbonmotion

Assuming he's stealing it with a wire, unhook his wire, and plug it into an electrical outlet.

And listen for the yell.

[gbojim]

Assuming he's using Windows, hack his system.

[virividox]

send the cops on him :D

but i dont know if there is a way to mess with his computer, theres a lot of things you need to know about his setup before u can mess with his head

[jeremy.king]

"I" before "E" except after "C"
Unless it makes "A" as in NEIGHBOR or WEIGH.

Sorry couldn't resist.

If you have a PC, check out AirSnare. Saw it on Techtv. You can send messages to the neighbor kid assuming he is on a PC as well and really mess with him.

http://home.comcast.net/~jay.deboer/airsnare/

Messages like "The FBI is currently monitoring this line and has determined your activity felonous in nature. Please cease this connection and dispose of your computer." are pretty funny... :D

[junior]

Originally posted by kingjr3
"I" before "E" except after "C"
Unless it makes "A" as in NEIGHBOR or WEIGH.

Sorry couldn't resist.

If you have a PC, check out AirSnare. Saw it on Techtv. You can send messages to the neighbor kid assuming he is on a PC as well and really mess with him.

http://home.comcast.net/~jay.deboer/airsnare/

Messages like "The FBI is currently monitoring this line and has determined your activity felonous in nature. Please cease this connection and dispose of your computer." are pretty funny... :D

Now THAT would be awesome! Try it out!

[bensisko]

Don't most wireless routers come with the ability to lessen the signal strength (i.e. make the bubble smaller)?

As for messing with him, you could flip the network on and off if you know he's surfing...

[Dont Hurt Me]

If he is using windows why dont you send him some email with the doom virus?

[virividox]

i like the doom virus idea,!!!

[carbonmotion]

lol thats tight

[Chip NoVaMac]

Can't you password protect your router?

[ChrisH3677]

Find a remote control software that doesn't need a server applet on his (EMCO make a great one but is only for PCs)

Then get onto his computer while he's using and start doing stuff like tapping a key when he's entering passwords, hitting Esc a lot, open notepad and type the message suggested above.

:D

[jrv3034]

Originally posted by kingjr3
"I" before "E" except after "C"
Unless it makes "A" as in NEIGHBOR or WEIGH.

What about the word "weird".

Weird, huh?;)

I second the AirSnare motion!

[junior]

Originally posted by ChrisH3677
Find a remote control software that doesn't need a server applet on his (EMCO make a great one but is only for PCs)

Then get onto his computer while he's using and start doing stuff like tapping a key when he's entering passwords, hitting Esc a lot, open notepad and type the message suggested above.

:D

Haha. Something tells me you're not new to this:D

[bennetsaysargh]

ditto on the doom virus idea. but you should do that FBI thing, and then if he/she doesn't stop, then do the doomvirus.

[Sun Baked]

Too bad you can't divert every page request from his MAC Address to the Barney website.

Or worse yet, make it random -- about one in every 20 page requests.

Releasing a virus will get you in trouble, releasing Barney will drive someone insane.

[QCassidy352]

don't be petty. Just change the password. :rolleyes:

[Richter]

isnt there software to secure your wi-fi connection?

[junior]

Originally posted by Richter
isnt there software to secure your wi-fi connection?

He can just create a password easily enough, but wants to teach this kid (how do you know it's a kid?) a lesson he won't forget in a hurry.:cool:

[latergator116]

We (my brother and I) used to steal the wireless connection from our neighbor too. Actaully, he said it was ok. He was a mac fan too and we used to help him out with computer problems.

[johnnyjibbs]

Originally posted by kingjr3
"I" before "E" except after "C"
Unless it makes "A" as in NEIGHBOR or WEIGH.

Sorry couldn't resist.
Don't want to start a UK English vs US English debate (or flame-war :D) but NEIGHBOR seems so wrong!! :D We call it neighbour over here! "Color", "Dialog" and "Donut" are sensible and I like, but "neighbor" seems wrong. :p

Sorry, couldn't resist. :D :p ;)

[sablagorgaat]

You people are kidding, right?

Isn't it at least partially your fault for not securing your network properly? There are lots of things that can be done. Setting a WEP/WPA password, restricting the MAC addresses able to access your router, creating a closed network (not broadcasting your SSID--which you also should have changed from the default), etc.

While not completely foolproof, I think taking any or all of these measures should keep your network secure. Unleashing viruses on other people's computers, however, is not a smart thing to do.

[Makosuke]

Weasling in on an unprotected access point isn't exactly a capital offense, but it's also hardly fair to blame the victim, sablagorgaat; yes, if you make it easy to jump your connection you can expect it to happen eventually, but that doesn't make it your fault when it's somebody else knowingly doing it. On the other hand, it's hardly a serious crime, and the kid might not even know any better.

Therefore:

Releasing virus = bad; it doesn't just affect him, and it's rather destructive anyway.

Having a bit of fun by sending an "FBI is watching" message = an entirely legitimate and amusing prank.

Although I also like the idea of randomly killing his connection while he's surfing or in the middle of a download--my ISP pulled that on me last night, except I'm paying for their service.

Maybe annoy him for a couple days, then send him an unnerving message (how about "Your illegal use of this connection is being monitored. We know who you are."?), then cut him off. Have a bit of fun at his expense (which he left himself open to by leeching a connection, just like you left yourself open to leeching), but don't get carried away.

[mstecker]

Why do you care? Let him surf your connection.

Ease up on the poor guy.

I keep my 2 airport hubs open, and I see 3-4 different people who use them on a daily basis when they're on the neighborhood. As far as I'm concerned, that's being a good neighbor.

M.

[saabmp3]

If you havn't protected connection then you shoudl be punishing yourself, not the other way around. Seriously, it's not stealing if it's readibly avaible.

BEN

[Spock]

Can someone tell me what the Doom Virus is?

[stoid]

Originally posted by saabmp3
If you havn't protected connection then you shoudl be punishing yourself, not the other way around. Seriously, it's not stealing if it's readibly avaible.

BEN
Kazaa is also readily available, and many consider that to be stealing.

[bbarnhart]

Originally posted by Spock
Can someone tell me what the Doom Virus is?

Tell me what your e-mail is and I'll send you the hundred or so that I got the past two days.

Also, using someone's wireless network without permission is stealing plain and simple.

PS Here is a picture of my mailbox

http://supersmack.dyndns.org:8081/~brianbarnhart/MyDoom.jpg

[603]

teach him a lesson? :P sounds like you need a lesson, like being taught out how to use all the security features of that new-fangled wireless stuff you just bought!

there's no need to get vindictive against the kid. if it was your kid you'd probably be sharing a laugh with him about how cool wireless networks are... and how novel it is to be getting an internet connection for free. it's not like he's stealing kilowatt hours, therms, gallons, or minutes - the cost of your internet connection, unlike other utilities, is probably not determined by number of megabytes downloaded... and let's face it, running a wireless network in a densely populated area is not unlike putting a sprinkler in the yard for all the kids on the block to play in.

so don't be a grumpy old man. you can share the wealth... you could ask him for a little bit of money in exchange for continued connectivity... but at least take responsibility for the fact that you left your back door wide open.

[bbarnhart]

If everyone shared their broadband connection with 3 or 4 neighbors, then the cable or DSL companies would be forced to raise rates. In fact, I don't think it is legal to share your broadband connection with your neighbors. I don't think you have a license to share your connection with people outside of your home.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to be the judge and jury or take the moral high ground. Just something to think about.

[603]

> If everyone shared their broadband connection with 3 or 4 neighbors, then the
> cable or DSL companies would be forced to raise rates.

stated as fact, but probably the opposite of the truth. nobody knows that for a fact. here's a fact: the FCC has predicted that many broadband providers will be dropping their rates during the next year. add in the _fact_ that wireless MANs and RANs (metro area networks and rural area networks) are coming onto the scene.... the company i work for sells a 1.5 Mbps wireless line-of-sight connection and it costs $10/month less than DSL... guess which one i use?

what is the basis for that argument, anyway? bandwidth? remember Juno from the early-mid 90s? they used to offer free internet connectivity... they found that less than 5% of their users were consuming 90% of the total bandwidth on their network. certainly, more people are online now, and they're online more frequently and for longer periods of time, but it's not like the average family is downloading Linux ISOs every night... i would suspect that the low-bandwidth users, in paying upwards of $50/month in some geographic regions, do more than their part to subsidize the bandwidth costs for the people who ARE actually downloading Linux ISOs every night. believe me: if it wasn't working out for the providers, and they didn't have a business model that takes these things into consideration, virtually nobody would have a broadband account right now.

as for the legality of sharing a connection, i used to live in the Northeast, where Verizon is a popular DSL provider. when i was setting up my account, the big ol' telco rep told me i couldn't run a network in my own home, i'd have to pay them $20/month for each additional user. that is akin to someone at Cox/RoadRunner/etc telling me that i have to pay a per-seat license if more than one person is going to watch cable TV at the same time. forget it. so i sat up a network for the 4 other apartments in my house, and Verizon never knew the difference. i used a ton of bandwidth and never heard from them, not once. they will gladly take your money if you're gullible enough to give it.

besides, if you live in Manhattan in an apartment building and have an Apple Base Station or any other wireless gear, do you think the NYPD are going to be running around with those Kensington Wi-Finders in hand, looking for bandwidth leaks? i doubt it. now, that's not the "it's only wrong if you get caught" ideology, it's more of the "i can't believe they passed such a silly corporate-bank-account-protecting law and i don't care if i'm breaking it or not" ideology.

for what it's worth, i do agree (sort of) that it's stealing, but only in the way that starting a pirate radio station is stealing. it's just the first post and some of the knee-jerk responses that irked me - as if malicious retribution against this kid was deserved, necessary, and even appropriate. considering what you get, internet connectivity is actually dirt cheap. just think back 10 years ago when most people didn't even know what a modem was, or had ever touched a computer. now people are whining because they can't download a full-length DVD-quality movie in five minutes... i can't see any reason why you wouldn't want to share such innovation with others...

[jimjiminyjim]

I'm surprised at the divide between those that think
a)taking the signal is bad;
b)leaving the signal open is bad.

Whatever happened to trust. Do everything assuming someone may do something you don't want them to do. Seems like a poor motto to live by. Live life scared of everyone is the message I hear.

[kanker]

Originally posted by Makosuke
Although I also like the idea of randomly killing his connection while he's surfing or in the middle of a download--my ISP pulled that on me last night, except I'm paying for their service. That's one funny line.

Anyway, with regards to opening your wireless to anyone, I think you folks shoud carefully read you service agreement to see if it's prohibited. There may not be a law prohibiting it, but if your service contract prohibits it, you could get yourself in trouble. There is one brodband provider whose name escapes me that encourages opening you network for nominal fees that you then share with them. It's like you become a mini-ISP, signing up users for your own profit.

[altair]

Cant believe no one mentioned Ettercap. :P

http://ettercap.sourceforge.net/

and how to install it.

http://ettercap.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1594

Enjoy :)

[Apple //e]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
At my home, some I discovered that some kids next door is stealing my DSL connection. While I could just change the pwd, I want to teach him a lesson one stealing people's wireless connections. Any ideas?

find out exactly who he is and get all his private info....wait till he graduates college, gets a good job, gets married, gets a huge promotion....and then.....

send one subscription to nambla (www.nambla1.de) to his home and another to his office.

when he is homeless and divorced, go up to him and say "thats what you get for stealing my bandwith PUNK"

[Kingsnapped]

apple //
404 not found.

Relink/Explination?

[Apple //e]

Originally posted by Kingsnapped
apple //
404 not found.

Relink/Explination?

i see the page is down.

nambla is the "north american man - boy love association"

and no, im not a catholic priest

[sethypoo]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
If he is using windows why dont you send him some email with the doom virus?

Couldn't a statement like that get you (Dont Hurt Me) in some serious trouble?

[sablagorgaat]

jimjiminyjim said:
I'm surprised at the divide between those that think
a)taking the signal is bad;
b)leaving the signal open is bad.

I wouldn't say that either is bad. But if you're going to leave your signal open, don't act indignant if someone is resourceful enough to take advantage of your generosity.

[slipper]

this is ridiculous. first of all its only a kid. second of all its your fault for unsecuring your wireless connection. how do you think he/she found out about your wireless connection? most likely by accident right? if i accidentally stumble across a WIFI hotspot in my living room would i be stealing your internet connection?

i think your plot to inflict harm to him and 'pay him back' is rather childish and in fact may be more criminal that your neighbors act.

[stevietheb]

I think the FBI prank is the way to go.

I am a bit dismayed by those that think the kid is doing nothing wrong simply because you left it unprotected. That's like saying that it's OK for someone to come in and steal your TV because you forgot to lock the front door: "Well, officer, I realize I didn't secure my home, so don't take it out on the thief...the door was unlocked, he didn't know any better."

Spare the rod...

[Rezet]

Originally posted by saabmp3
If you havn't protected connection then you shoudl be punishing yourself, not the other way around. Seriously, it's not stealing if it's readibly avaible.

BEN


Aaaahhhh Mr. Saabmp3, It depends on what definition of "IS" is. Look around, people steal music and somehow label it as being legit. On one hand he didnt sign any contracts thats he cant turn on his computer and all of the sudden for it to be able to go online. But on the other hand, unless this kid is a complete moron, he knows he still is using something that he did not get permission for to use nor paid for. I leave my car door open sometimes. Now if someone takes it, is it my fault it is stolen? And if so, how much protection should i put on it before one can say it's not my fault. Even if it is my fault for being careless, it still is the guy who takes it, does the crime. Is it not?

[Rezet]

Originally posted by jimjiminyjim
I'm surprised at the divide between those that think
a)taking the signal is bad;
b)leaving the signal open is bad.

Whatever happened to trust. Do everything assuming someone may do something you don't want them to do. Seems like a poor motto to live by. Live life scared of everyone is the message I hear.

Trust? You really need a reality check one of these days, bro.

[Gymnut]

Hire Bob the Dinosaur to give him an atomic wedgie.

[beatle888]

Originally posted by Rezet
Trust? You really need a reality check one of these days, bro.


yeah, if everybody trusted eachother it would be anarchy.

by the way i just made a WEP 128 hex password for my network, turned on WAN PIN blocking, enabled a single MAC address (my own) and gave the network a specific name. i left the broadcasting feature on because techtv said something about packets actually use that to transmit data...if its turned off it can actually slow performance.

[yosoyjay]

I'm unable to understand why you are complaining about people using your wireless internet acess if you are providing an open network.

The problem is that you don't want to have an open network, but you have done nothing to close your network.

Instead of blaming an innocent person for using an open network, you should take the responsibility of properly setting up your network to suit your needs and desires.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by bbarnhart

Also, using someone's wireless network without permission is stealing plain and simple.


Actually it’s illegal in more then a few parts of the US. Obtaining an IP address in some parts of the US is the equivalent to hacking a system. Without approval from the owner of the network you could be opening yourself up to some legal problems. AFAIK no one has been given the slapdown YET because of this but as a wardriver I can tell you its a topic of much discussion on many WD forums.
I don’t think going to the cops and complaining will do you any good. MAYBE if they were doing something nasty with your connection you might perk the cops interest but as it stands *shrugs*

As for this person. If nothing else he/she should have at least asked for permission. As it stands they deserve some grief for invading another person’s network without permission. And for those who leave their network open. Here’s hoping that one of the next massive outbreaks isn’t initially distributed via someone pulling upfront your house at 3AM with a laptop, WIFI card, and antenna and uploading it to the net from your network. Odds are slim of this happening to you specifically but its going to happen someday. Watch the newspapers. I will bet someday someone will be charged with distributing a virus and after computer forensics goes over their computer they will be cleared but its going to make them look like morons in the end.

As for my home network. It’s about as secure as you are going to get. 128-bit WEP, MAC filtering, VPN with RADIUS authentication. If someone breaks into my network they deserve to gain access to everything I have.

If you want to irk this guy off all you need to do is find out what IP this person is using on your network. Most likely it’s a Windows XP box and if you are lucky it’s a Windows XP Home edition that leaves the admin password blank. Every NT/2K/XP system has a c$ share on it. If you are lucky this is available with the username: Administrator and no password. At this point what you want to do is upload a warning.txt file into C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Start Menu\Programs\Startup
Place whatever you want to tell him into a text file and leave it in there. Next time he reboots he will get a nice little message from you as will anyone else that logs into the system. :)
You guys should be ashamed of yourself for suggesting sending this guy a virus. :(

[carbonmotion]

Originally posted by mstecker
Why do you care? Let him surf your connection.

Ease up on the poor guy.

I keep my 2 airport hubs open, and I see 3-4 different people who use them on a daily basis when they're on the neighborhood. As far as I'm concerned, that's being a good neighbor.

M.

Here is the thing, I think the kid has dial-up cause his parents are old fashioned... And he buys ths usb 802.11b adaptor and plugs it in to his wintel and starts to steal my bandwith. Its annoying because the first week I thought it was my connection being gay... oh yeah also, I'm only home on the weekends so most of the time I at school /dorm with a ultra fast connection (800kps download speed average) ...so anyways, I thought i was just me going nuts... but my dad complains how we pay 50 dollars a month and CNN .com takes a like 100 years to load ...so, I'm like WTF? if my dad thinks its slow, then it HAS to be slow... So I go and check the router log... and bam this mystry ip address... I mean there is only one house in range of my WiFi bubble... and I know this kid because I pay him to mow my lawn and he always bitches about his Dial-Up downloads Pornos really slow ...and I know he was there When my Router came on the UPS truck... and then it all came together one night. Bingo! that's gotta be it. Actually I think I have evilest idea of all of you guys. I going to bitch to his dad about this for an hour ...you can do alot to a 16 year old and he wouldn't give a rats ass ...but when pappy takes out the belt... hehehe.

[beatle888]

SiliconAddict,

can you tell me why my security log has so many IP address blocked by Dos blocking? what is Dos blocking and why is my computer being bombarded with people trying to access it? just within the last thirty minutes i've had like twenty hits.

thanks for the info...that is if you know.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by yosoyjay


The problem is that you don't want to have an open network, but you have done nothing to close your network.



So if I forget to lock my car should I expect someone to get in and turn on the radio and chill in my car? WIFI security should not be required. And leaving security off does NOT mean everyone is invited to use a network. People need to grow the hell up and realize that just because you can't physically possess something (music, movies, programs, etc.) doesn't give you the right to steal and/or intrude. Using this fellows WIFI network is no different then walking into his house sitting down and watching the TV simply because he forgot to lock the door. In that case it’s implied that it’s his property you are intruding without permission. And any reasonable person realizes this is wrong. The same can be applied to a network. (Wireless or not.) If you aren't asking for permission you are intruding.
With that being said I think WIFI is becoming pervasive enough that at some point most mobile (laptop/PDA) systems will be set to just automatically pick up a network no matter what/where or who its owned by. (Windows already does this by default.) If someone doesn’t want company on their network they will need to secure it at least to the extent that you can’t simply wander onto it by accident.

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by latergator116
We (my brother and I) used to steal the wireless connection from our neighbor too. Actaully, he said it was ok. He was a mac fan too and we used to help him out with computer problems.

Its not stealing...

If you have his permission...
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by carbonmotion
Here is the thing, I think the kid has dial-up cause his parents are old fashioned... [snip].you can do alot to a 16 year old and he wouldn't give a rats ass ...but when pappy takes out the belt... hehehe.
Okay.

First change the password.

If the bugger still connects enable more security if needed, or heck send him a Win Message.

Again, if that fails you can call him and tell him to stop connecting...

I mean really.

[carbonmotion]

:)

[carbonmotion]

:)

[beatle888]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
oh yeah, and this kid needs to learn a lesson.... and also, I have alot of lan parties sometimes, and extreme security messures will cause problems in setting up everyone's computers

are you still having security issues?
fix it.

[carbonmotion]

:)

[carbonmotion]

:)

[carbonmotion]

:)

[virividox]

close down your network, have a talk with the kid or his parents, but before that happens send him a fbi prank message.

i dont think people were serious about the doom virus, its just that right now its the biggest wintel problem at the moment, which we are once again unaffected by :)

[carbonmotion]

:)

[yosoyjay]

If my computer sends a request to his network to join and I am able to gain access, then the network has given me permission to be on the network.

How is that stealing?

If the said person does not want to allow me access there are numerous methods to accomplish that.

[beatle888]

just because the computer industry uses the word permission when accessing networks doesnt mean the owner of the network is agreeing to that term.

now will someone answer my question?

why does my security log have so many attempts to access my computer? it says protected by Dos blocking and shows like fourty hits within the last fourty five minutes.

[carbonmotion]

:)

[yosoyjay]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
With that being said I think WIFI is becoming pervasive enough that at some point most mobile (laptop/PDA) systems will be set to just automatically pick up a network no matter what/where or who its owned by. (Windows already does this by default.) If someone doesn’t want company on their network they will need to secure it at least to the extent that you can’t simply wander onto it by accident.

This is the case where I live. Perhaps that is the cause of our differing points of view.

Right now sitting in my living room I can detect 10 wireless networks, 4 of which are open. In fact, my entire neighborhood is covered with wireless networks many of which are open. Living in an area saturated with wireless networks and wireless users, I know many people who are used to using any network that is open. Indeed, many of these same users host their own open networks. And everyone knows that you don't use the closed networks because... they are closed.

That being said, I suppose I had falsely presumed the de facto rules established by my local community to be universally applicable.

[carbonmotion]

:)

[slipper]

Originally posted by stevietheb
I am a bit dismayed by those that think the kid is doing nothing wrong simply because you left it unprotected. That's like saying that it's OK for someone to come in and steal your TV because you forgot to lock the front door
that is completely ridiculous, the wireless connection is going straight into his living room.

according to hawaii state law and im sure many other state laws, anything protruding from a neighbors property into their own is subject to their own discretion. if a neighbors bush protrudes into my yard i can cut down the section if i wanted to. if i wanted to prune that section i can do that as well.

i dont know the nitty gritty about this law and WIFI but im sure something similar pertains. besides you knew that your WIFI radius would extend beyond your property into your neighbors yard, you choose not to encrypt it, as i said i dont know the specifics on the laws but IMO you sholdnt be able to penalize him for it.

why dont you do the right thing and just encrypt the damn thing instead of something childish like a prank.

[yosoyjay]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
please read the situation... he is using 99% of my bandwith. wtf am i suppose to do? let him? im not GNU

You know the options. If you want them spelled out go here:

http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/w/wireless-security-howto/home-802.11b-2.html

[Nik_Doof]

Originally posted by Sun Baked
Too bad you can't divert every page request from his MAC Address to the Barney website.

Can be done with using a linux comp as a bridge and a quick iptables hack :P, summat like:

iptables -A OUTPUT --source-mac ff:ff:ff:ff:ff --dport 80 -j DNAT

and then make a NAT rule for him, that was off the top of my head i'm no iptables god :(

[tomf87]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
oh yeah, and this kid needs to learn a lesson.... and also, I have alot of lan parties sometimes, and extreme security messures will cause problems in setting up everyone's computers

Security does cause inconveniences, but if you want it secure, then lock it down. At the very least, just enter a MAC address filter and tell him about it along with his parents. Then if he spoofs your address to get on, you have a legal right to take this a step further, as that is breaking into someone's network.

Also, if you are having LAN parties, why would you do it on wireless? It would be much faster and can have a lot more people on a switched LAN.

How much bandwidth do you have anyway? Theoretically, 802.11b supports 11Mbps, but in reality, you're only going to get 3Mbps tops with a great signal.

[ExoticFish]

if you really want to teach him then put up a router that routes all traffic except yours to ******.cx i garentee you that they'll stop stealing your access REAL quick!

[SilentPanda]

Aside from the fact that sending him any sort of e-mail virus is a "bad" idea think about it... you send him a virus that uses the internet at will... he uses your internet... hmmmmm.... might not be a good thing to have a virus using your internet...

[Hemingray]

Originally posted by sablagorgaat
You people are kidding, right?

Isn't it at least partially your fault for not securing your network properly? There are lots of things that can be done. Setting a WEP/WPA password, restricting the MAC addresses able to access your router, creating a closed network (not broadcasting your SSID--which you also should have changed from the default), etc.

While not completely foolproof, I think taking any or all of these measures should keep your network secure. Unleashing viruses on other people's computers, however, is not a smart thing to do.

I agree, technically it is his fault for not having configured his wireless router to prevent this in the first place. When I got my D-Link, that's the first thing I did: read the instructions. And, of course, some poor sap in the same apartment complex as me was broadcasting his "Linksys" and I could have easily used that.

Personally, I would just call the police. It's plain old stealing. Obviously the guy knows what he's doing, so he deserves to be caught and punished.

[Dreadnought]

So, he mowns your lawn.... let him do it, and after he is done, count out the money right in front of his face. Then put it back in your pocket and say to him: this is just about the amount you owe me. And go inside! But first a couple of errors and fbi pranks on his pc would be cool and ofcourse setting your router to only one dumb foreign webpage as suggested!

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
Its annoying because the first week I thought it was my connection being gay...

you're probably going to want to take that connection to the nearest gay-to-straight counseling service pronto! you have a civic duty to have it "fixed"!


why not just put a ****ing password on it? **** man..

[wPod]

First thing is first, is the kid actually stealing? when i first set up my parents (wintel) computer for wireless it attached to my neighbor's router by default b/c the neighbors router was open and the one i set up for my parents has 128 bit encription mac filtering and a slew of other protective measures (probably a bit much but it works) For some reason (because windows is lame) it will jump back to the neighbor's router and i have to re-set everything. so, ask the kid if he has his own router and is only on your accadentily (cause windows is lame).

if you KNOW he is stealing (like you see him percariously pearched on a window cill leaning your direction with a laptop) then take the following steps. . .

1) monitor his data transfer rate (most routers have this capability built in)

2) wait until you notice a lot of activity. (such as downloading american pie unrated that his parents wont let him rent, or playing whatever game it is people play online)

3) unplug your router.

4) wait 2 minutes and plug in router.

5) repeate steps 1-4 until he is fed up with the inconsitency of your router that he walks down to starbucks to steal it from there instead.

[Makosuke]

The moral and legal issues surrounding unprotected wireless networks are essentially irresolveable; there are valid arguments in both directions, and there's no way to reach an agreement since different points are more important for different people.

That said, I'm assuming that carbonmotion is explaining his particular situation accurately, in which case it'd be hard to make a strong argument that the kid isn't doing something wrong, if not in principle at least in the spirit of what he's doing.

The name of the access point implies it's not for open use, the kid apparently knows whose point it is and hasn't asked permission to use it despite having ample opportunity to do so, and his excessive use is causing a measureable negative impact on the owner of the connection. Besides, if he's downloading porn it might well be illegal use as well, potentially putting carbonmotion in some legal jepordy as well. (And if you want to get into another huge grey area, he could also be making carbonmotion 'responsible' for providing adult material to a minor.)

Point is, the kid's using the connection in bad faith; he knows whose it is, he knows that it isn't intended to be open, and he's using it enough to cause the owner an inconvienence.

This doesn't make him some sort of evil person, but playing a prank or two on him before cutting him off isn't exactly a high crime either. Although getting him in trouble with his parents, which he apparently deserves to be in, seems a much more appropriate solution.

By the way, for those saying he doesn't deserve to be pranked a bit because it's the victim's fault, isn't it just as legit the other way around? I'm sitting there minding my own business, and there's a bunch of traffic flowing through a router on my property, that I own. I'd say I have the right to intercept, mess with, or alter that data if I feel like it. If my open network hanging around in his living room allows him to use it, then his open data stream hanging aound in my router allows me to use that, too. His fault for not securing his connection, and his computer, right?

[pdrayton]

Well, having read through all 3 pages, I'm amazed that no one seems to realize that:

"WiFi" 802.11b & 802.11g is unregulated spectrum.

The US Supreme Court has ruled that it is not illegal to tap into someone's broadcast over this unregulated spectrum. It is also perfectly legal to tap-into, and even tape, someone's phone conversations over unregulated spectrum (cordless phones broadcast over unregulated spectrum, cell phones broadcast over regulated spectrum... just an FYI).

Not all ISP's prohibit sharing bandwidth with non-subscribers. Some do, some don't. Thus, if an ISP prohibits non-subscribers from receiving service the subscriber who is broadcasting it is the one held legally liable, not the recipient. That is why the police in Manhattan (at the request of TimeWarner) are nailing not the people picking-up free TimeWarner internet service, but rather the subscribers who are broadcasting it on open wireless networks!

Wireless manufacturers set up equipment so that by default it is unprotected.

Not only is it not illegal to pick-up internet service for free over WiFi, it also isn't a similar situation to walking into someone's home and watching the TV. Remember... the internet is being broadcast by a subscriber INTO someone else's home!

It is very difficult for someone to determine if the internet service that is being broadcast into his home by someone else is from a subscription that permits (or doesn't permit) the subscriber to broadcast it to others. In densely populated places such as Boston, where I live, one easily receives many wireless networks while inside one's home. I receive strong signals from 8 unsecured networks. To whom do they belong? What kind of User Agreement do they have with their ISP? Who knows!

This all doesn't mean that you can't think that it's wrong for someone to surf the internet for free on your own wireless network, but it does mean that it's not illegal to pick-up the service and use if for free. It's even legal to access the files on your computer (as long as they aren't copyrighted material).

So, if you set up a wireless network, familiarize yourself with your ISP's User Agreement to see if you are permitted to broadcast your service to non-subscribers. And, if you don't want anyone using your service then SECURE your own network and/or tweak the broadcast signal so that you're not beaming your personal information into someone else's home!

You may not like what the kid is doing, but he's doing nothing illegal. I think the amusing part of this thread is that no one realizes it's not the kid who's breaking the law, it's the adult! (assuming his user agreement forbids open broadcast to non-subscribers)

[Raid]

Originally posted by Makosuke
The moral and legal issues surrounding unprotected wireless networks are essentially irresolveable; there are valid arguments in both directions, and there's no way to reach an agreement since different points are more important for different people.

This whole argument seems to be a micro version of stealing satalite signal. But the question is just because something falls on your lap/property do you have the moral right to use it?

Originally posted by Makosuke
That said, I'm assuming that carbonmotion is explaining his particular situation accurately, in which case it'd be hard to make a strong argument that the kid isn't doing something wrong, if not in principle at least in the spirit of what he's doing. <snip>
Point is, the kid's using the connection in bad faith; he knows whose it is, he knows that it isn't intended to be open, and he's using it enough to cause the owner an inconvienence.

Agreed! The bottom line is that both this unnamed kid and carbonmotion are at falut. The kid should not have abused this lack of security, and carbonmotion should have put some restrictions on his wireless connection. It's like stealing a car when someone leaves it running while hopping into a convenience store. Sure the thief shouldn't have stole it, but the driver was certainly making it easier to do so.


I don't reccomend pranking, viruses or any such tatic. It's childish, and ... well just plain stupid. A mature way would be to go over to your neighbours house and (while being civil) explain the situation to both the parents and the kid at the same time. Leave the punishment for the parents to decide and close up your router and leave the matter in the past.

Sure the mature way isn't as fun, and doesn't give your ego the inflated sense of power and the rush that follows; but you said you wanted to teach the kid what's morally right, and leading by example is the best (but toughest) way to do it.

[parrothead]

You could go over there and ask him to pay a small amount a month to use your internet. That way you benefit and unless he is hosting a website or something it probably won't affect your internet speed.

As for getting back at him, remember a wise man once said, "before setting off on revenge, first dig two graves." He could be a budding hacker just waiting to mess with you back.

[3-22]

Originally posted by mstecker
Why do you care? Let him surf your connection.

Ease up on the poor guy.

I keep my 2 airport hubs open, and I see 3-4 different people who use them on a daily basis when they're on the neighborhood. As far as I'm concerned, that's being a good neighbor.

M.

Yeah, until a not-so good neighbor uses it for something illegal and the FBI busts down your door. Now how are you going to prove it wasn't you... Technically you should be able to but good luck.

If it was a perfect world I would agree with you, but for me it's not worth it.

[wHo_tHe]

Without a password on your wireless network, your network traffic is unencrypted, allowing just about anybody to listen in on almost every character you send or receive over the Internet.

Also (speaking of NAMBLA), without securing your network, some pedophile doing drive-bys with a wireless sniffer could sit in front of your house and download 50 megs worth of kiddie porn, and the Feds will come and track *you* down because it's your DSL line (and your logged IP, and your base station's MAC address, etc...)

So, lock down your network and leave it at that. A password is hardly an "extreme" security measure.

[Hemingray]

Originally posted by parrothead
He could be a budding hacker just waiting to mess with you back.

I doubt a "hacker", budding or not, is going to know enough to mess with a Mac running a Unix-based system... he's most likely on a Windoze box. At the most he can wreak havoc on your wireless connection, to which you turn on WEP, MAC addressing, change the router's default IP address, change the SSID, turn off broadcasting, and all the other stumbling blocks available. Then, if he actually manages to crack all of that, just take a couple minutes to change it to different settings and he'll have to start all over again. He'll probably give up after awhile.

[carbonmotion]

:)

[numediaman]

Seems like a lot of people not only want to throw the first stone, but want a few more stones, as well! (I guess no one here has ever done something online they later felt was not so great -- like downloaded an mp3, looked at a web site you wouldn't later show your girlfriend, or spent time on a Mac forum while at work? ) ;)

I may have skipped over something, but is it possible the kid doesn't even know whose signal he has tapped into? Maybe he thinks he has tapped into the neighbor down the street -- you know, the one no one likes.

I say, go configure your router and be done with it. (after sending the FBI note, of course. Actually, send one from the RIAA!)

[Sweetfeld28]

I tell you what i'd do... I would find out my IP address for the router, and then geton another Mac with OS X not connected to the router. I would then go into the Network Utility in the Utilities folder. Go to the Ping section and Ping the hell out of him. I would enter in the IP, and send an unlimited number of pings to him. I think this would work, try it and teach him a lesson.

Good Luck.

[tomf87]

Originally posted by Sweetfeld28
I tell you what i'd do... I would find out my IP address for the router, and then geton another Mac with OS X not connected to the router. I would then go into the Network Utility in the Utilities folder. Go to the Ping section and Ping the hell out of him. I would enter in the IP, and send an unlimited number of pings to him. I think this would work, try it and teach him a lesson.

Good Luck.

Just a straight ping isn't going to hurt him. Try enabling root on your Mac, then do 'ping -f <ip>'. That will ping flood him, but of course it will also flood the network.

Do you have another wireless AP around? If so, turn it on with no WEP or filters, and nothing else plugged into it. Now configure your router with WEP, disabled SSID broadcasting, and MAC filters, and you can get out while he is connected to a wireless network that's not connected to anything else. Let him work on that awhile.

[tomf87]

Oh, and don't forget to put your working router on a different SSID.

[jeff.macaddict]

you are basically on a lan with the guy, right? in that case, it would be very easy to access his computer, and do whatever you wanted to it.

If not with the terminal, then luanch vpc, and hack the pc with your vpc.

[Dreadnought]

Hacks his pc and delete all of his porn! Then set a password on it!

[Prom1]

someone amongst a few others mentioned The bottom line is that both this unnamed kid and carbonmotion are at falut. The kid should not have abused this lack of security, and carbonmotion should have put some restrictions on his wireless connection. .

Now personally I'm partial to the fact that carbonmotion left his connection open is at some fault. BUt I see it as yes this kid is stealing his connection to a point.

How many of you that stated its NOT STEALING have a car? And of those How many of you on a winter morning go out start your car (manually or used to without remote car starters), leave the doors open to warm up the car and defrost your windows (LOL) for a few minutes before leaving your house to drive off?? Now if I jump into your car and drive off.......am I stealing? Even if you don't know I did and I get pulled over from the cops and have a license but no insurance; I'm sure the cops are gonna suspect that the plates registered is not in my surname/first name and think I stole it!! Furthermore, lets say I did take it and you don't know it yet I kidnap some kid (child) from the mall and that kids obduction is reported on the new & to police and their after me, yet no discription of me. I park the car back into your driveway open your back door, put the kid in their (who's tapped and tied up) and take off un-noticed!!

Now imagine this pathetic scenario as me surfing your wireless connection without your permission, and the kid obduction is instead kiddie-porn!! Now would you call that stealing your connection?? And how would you feel when the cops come knocking on your door ready to bust you, and fully blam you for your actions/lack of action of closing your connection??!!!!

You'd be pissed off and would learn not to pw protect your wireless connection!! However, you don't want to spend 3 months in Jail before the police investigation realizes that the content on your computer wasn't put their directly from your system but from a ciphon!

Top that off with your computer will never get back to you and your insurance will NOT cover it!!!?!!

I say teach the kid a lesson B4 he teaches you one! Then for god 's sake pw protect your Airport connection please and prevent yourself from some serious fustration, identity theft, humiliation, and pain!!!!

PS. I have no idea where that scenario came from but just made it up for all to see from a different angle.

Cheers

[pdrayton]

Well, the car scenario above isn't a "different angle". It's a completely different legal situation.

Legally, the person broadcasting the network wirelessly is held accountable for adhering to the ISP User Agreement, and is also accountable for any illegal activities (child pornography, etc) conducted on the wireless network. It is not illegal to use someone else's WiFi network.

People may have their own opinions about whether or not it's ethical to tap-into someone else's WiFi network. It's quite apparent, however, that most posters in this thread think that their own "ethical" standards give them the right to commit an illegal act (damaging someone's computer).

I only switched to Mac last Fall, but it's becoming quite obvious that Mac fans, despite their disdain of Bill Gates' business tactics, make him look like Mother Theresa.

[tomf87]

I agree with you on that. Stealing is stealing, no matter what it is. Also, I've seen numerous posts here where people think it is OK for them to steal other people's connections. What if the owner of the WiFi network decided to crash their computer? I doubt they would be happy and whine about it later blaming it on the owner for not locking it down. I think people should start taking responsibility for their own actions, and get things corrected the proper way, not by sending out a virus or hacking his PC, which is illegal. Hacking a PC, even though it is on your own network, is illegal.

Besides, this dude is a college student, and they all share the same line through their university. Who cares if he's on the wireless at this point? He'd just be slowing himself down anyway.

[tomf87]

Originally posted by pdrayton
... It is also perfectly legal to tap-into, and even tape, someone's phone conversations over unregulated spectrum (cordless phones broadcast over unregulated spectrum, cell phones broadcast over regulated spectrum... just an FYI)....

Don't think so... You can listen to them over the scanner, but taping them is another matter. Even on your own phone, you have to get both parties' permission to tape the conversation, just as the way insurance companies do when/if they call you when you are involved in an accident. Taping anyone's telephone conversations is against the law in the US.

[pdrayton]

Originally posted by tomf87
Don't think so... You can listen to them over the scanner, but taping them is another matter. Even on your own phone, you have to get both parties' permission to tape the conversation, just as the way insurance companies do when/if they call you when you are involved in an accident. Taping anyone's telephone conversations is against the law in the US.
Well, I'm actually right as long as taping, etc. occurs on a wireless 2.4 to 2.5GHz frequency. The US Supreme Court has already settled that.

As for taping on landlines or regulated cellphone frequencies, then you are correct.

This thread, however, is about WiFi (2.4 - 2.5GHz spectrum) broadcasts. So, landline and cell-phone comparisons don't apply.

Few people realize that law-enforcement agencies frequently tap into cordless phone conversations and computer files that are being broadcast on 2.4GHz spectrum without having to get court permission. Rather than get a court's permission to seize a computer to do a search of files to gain evidence of criminal activities, law-enforcement agencies often sit outside in a vehicle and gather that information legally, without a court's permission, by tapping into the WiFi broadcast.

It's pretty apparent that people's ethical opinions about unauthorized use of someone's wireless broadband aren't backed up by actual laws.

[tomf87]

http://frwebgate5.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=75168413592+5+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

Not according to the FCC.

[pdrayton]

Originally posted by tomf87
http://frwebgate5.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=75168413592+5+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

Not according to the FCC.
Well, actually, the last time I checked the US Constitution the US Supreme Court trumps a Federal Agency.

And, if you explore this FCC regulation you'll see that it applies only to taping or eavesdropping on conversations that aren't already being broadcast on unlicensed spectrum. This regulation is in reference to what are commonly referred to as "bugs" which are designed to pick up conversations/information that isn't being rebroadcast.

[Santiago]

If someone has an unsecured wireless network that broadcasts its SSID, how is anyone supposed to know that the owner doesn't want to share it, short of the network name being "Get off my network, you bastard!"? Many people willing share their connection openly. You need to provide some sort of indication that you don't want others using your network by putting in some sort of token security at the very least, otherwise it looks very much like you're intending to offer the public service that you're in fact providing.

[tomf87]

Originally posted by pdrayton
Well, actually, the last time I checked the US Constitution the US Supreme Court trumps a Federal Agency.

And, if you explore this FCC regulation you'll see that it applies only to taping or eavesdropping on conversations that aren't already being broadcast on unlicensed spectrum. This regulation is in reference to what are commonly referred to as "bugs" which are designed to pick up conversations/information that isn't being rebroadcast.

Not trying to argue, but just trying to understand the issue.... Can you tell me what part of the Constitution says the US Supreme Court trumps the FCC?

http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Constitution.html

Also, with my scanner, it states in the user manual that use of the scanner to record conversations is against the law. Which case were you referring to about where the Supreme Court stated it was legal to do so?

[pdrayton]

Originally posted by Santiago
If someone has an unsecured wireless network that broadcasts its SSID, how is anyone supposed to know that the owner doesn't want to share it, short of the network name being "Get off my network, you bastard!"?
Exactly.

And, here in Boston we have numerous ISP's that permit sharing bandwidth with non-subscribers. How does one know which SSID is operating according to the User Agreement and which isn't? Should everyone deprive themselves of appropriate wireless broadband usage simply because there are people who aren't authorized to share bandwidth and ignore common sense precautions about "closing" their networks?

[Buckyball]

You have done the equivalent of setting up a projection screen in your back yard, hooked up a great stereo, and then complain when your neighbors watch from their side of the fence.

(a) Shift to a closed network
(b) Pick up a book on networking; always- on broadband connections are ripe for the picking.
(c) Send him a note of thanks for clue-ing you into the importance of network security.

And, if you haven't done so, put in a firewall!

BB

[Buckyball]

"So if I forget to lock my car should I expect someone to get in and turn on the radio and chill in my car? WIFI security should not be required."

No, but he's perfectly entitled to sit in his car listening to your stereo if you have the tunes cranked up and the top down. The original poster is [B]broadcasting[\B] a signal into someone else's home. Your analogies are false.

As long as the legal situation came up, by broadcasting an open network, the originator is violating any laws against sharing a connection. It's as simple as that.

[janey]

hehe you people made me laugh when i read this entire thread from page 1 to whatever it is now.

In my neighborhood, at any given time you can access at least 3 wifi networks (there's one place that doesnt have any wifi...best place to be when you dont wanna be disturbed while using a laptop :) ) and every time i'm doing whatever on my iBook or PowerBook, sometimes i go on the wrong network. It takes me anywhere from a minute to a few days to realize, sometimes because of the bizarre IPs, the differing ISPs, the speed of the connection, AOLSystemMsg or whatever it is telling me i'm signed in twice...Nobody cares, nobody minds...we all get used to it. Sometimes we even see people warwalking! That's when the partay starts :)
My network is password protected usually only when there's some major data transferring going on...the password is the same as the ssid (and yes I did that on purpose).
If someone was that desperate to use my network, then hell I wouldn't mind. If they were sucking up too much bandwidth, I'd message them asking them to stop, nothing more.
In fact, I got together with my neighbors and those of us who could bridged our routers.

It's really not that important.
Sending someone a virus is not a good idea. Sometimes it can be a mistake. However, what the guy's doing doesn't seem like a mistake...maybe you should just msg him and tell him to stop. If he doesn't physically go to him and ask him to stop.
No need to think up all these bizarre tactics to bring him down.

btw, if you go to a starbucks with the tmobile hotspot thing, you can get a free day pass. So theoretically you can surf for free at your local Starbucks :)

[pdrayton]

Originally posted by tomf87
[B]Not trying to argue, but just trying to understand the issue.... Can you tell me what part of the Constitution says the US Supreme Court trumps the FCC?

Article III Section I

But, surely you knew that, didn't you? This stuff is covered in 8th Grade. This link is to the nation's Federal Judicial system.

Federal Court System Explanation (http://www.fjc.gov/federal/courts.nsf/autoframe?OpenForm&nav=menu6a&page=/federal/courts.nsf/page/FB4F139742CE9D24852568240051D806?opendocument)

Following that link will show you this quote: "The courts interpret the laws that Congress enacts and may declare them unconstitutional."

That's exactly what happened when FCC regulations were tried, unsuccessfully, in being applied to 2.4GHz spectrum.

As for your scanner, what spectrums is it monitoring? That may be the issue here... your scanner may be scanning "licensed" (regulated) frequencies. WiFi is unlicensed (unregulated).

[Makosuke]

That's some interesting information on the legalities of the use of the information in the unlicenced spectrum that WiFi uses.

That said, the fact that it's apparently completely legal to use someone's unprotected WiFi connection, does not change the potential "rightness" of doing so. And one thing all these analogies are overlooking is that, from the sound of it, the kid isn't making "no impact" use of this connection--he's sucking excessive amounts of bandwidth to the point that it's negatively affecting the guy paying the bills. He's not watching your projection TV over the fence, he's standing directly in front of you blocking your view of the screen so he can see better.

At the very least, he's being annoying. I don't see the issue with playing a bit of a prank on him (pranks, I might add, are a long tradition where I come from) so long as you eventually explain it's a prank and shut him down or get his parents to do so for you.

By the way, if I'm understanding correctly, does not the fact that anything in the WiFi spectrum is completely fair game legally give you free reign to do all sorts of nasty business to the kid's use of your internet connection, just as apparently it's legal for him to hop on it? I don't think that's any more right than what he's doing for the most part, but it's an interesting observation--the same freedom that makes him "in the right" legally makes it open season for retribution as well.

Interesting all around.

[pdrayton]

Originally posted by Makosuke
He's not watching your projection TV over the fence, he's standing directly in front of you blocking your view of the screen so he can see better.

Actually, he wouldn't be "blocking your view of the screen" had the owner of the TV not gone over to his house and put it in his living room. So, there goes that analogy.

As for the "rightness" of it, that is merely personal opinion. There are currently no laws that will support one's contention that it "isn't right" to tap into someone's WiFi or cordless phone. If one thinks tapping into someones WiFi is wrong, then he or she should let his elected representatives in Congress know about that.

Here's some good information that highlights why your WiFi connection can be legally tapped (cordless phones, too). This is information from the Association of the Bar of the City of New York, and is a warning to lawyers that conversations lawyers have with clients that are to be confidential should not be conducted on cordless phones. It also states why, and gives numerous court decisions backing that up. Basically, on the WiFi/Cordeless phone spectrum, there is no "expectation of privacy" (because it is unlicensed spectrum, listening in on a lawyer in California may be exempt from this):

"Conversations carried on over cordless phones are equally susceptible to interception by anyone within range of the handset or base transmitters. Because of this susceptibility, courts have repeatedly held in Fourth Amendment cases that there can be no reasonable expectation of privacy in the content of cordless phone conversations. See United States v. Smith, 978 F.2d 171, 179 (5th Cir. 1992), cert. denied, 113 S. Ct. 1620 (1993); Tyler v. Berodt, 877 F.2d 705, 706-07 (8th Cir. 1989), cert. denied, 493 U.S. 1022 (1990); United States v. Carr, 805 F. Supp. at 1271; Edwards v. Bardwell, 632 F. Supp. 584, 588-89 (M.D. La.), aff'd mem., 808 F.2d 54 (5th Cir. 1986); State v. Howard, 679 P.2d 197, 206 (Kan. 1984); State v. Neisler, 635 So. 2d 433, 436 (La. Ct. App. 1994); People v. Fata, 139 Misc. 2d 979, 982-83 (Sup. Ct. Rockland Co. 1988), aff'd, 159 A.D.2d 180 (2d Dep't), leave to appeal denied, 76 N.Y.2d 985 (1990); State v. Bidinost, 1993 Ohio App. LEXIS 3097, at 23-25 (Ohio Ct. App. 1993); State v. Smith, 438 N.W.2d 571, 577-78 (Wis. 1989). We note, in this regard, that California recently enacted legislation providing that attorney-client communications do not lose their privileged character simply because they are conducted on a cellular or cordless telephone. 1994 Cal. Adv. Legis. Serv. 186 (Deering) (amending Cal. Evid. Code § 952)."

The full information can be accessed here: Association of the Bar - New York City (http://www.abcny.org/reports/show_html.php?rid=172)

Although these cases dealt with cordless phones, the reason they are considered not to provide "an expectation of privacy" is because the spectrum on which they broadcast is unlicensed and unregulated... the exact same spectrum as WiFi.

[mvc]

Originally posted by saabmp3
If you havn't protected connection then you shoudl be punishing yourself, not the other way around. Seriously, it's not stealing if it's readibly avaible.

BEN

Hey, why you try that theory out at a jewellery shop, they just leave the stuff lying around sometimes, so its "readibly avaible"

Its still stealing, they just call it theft instead of burglary.

[tomf87]

-prdayton

No, I've been much of a political/history type myself. I've never fully read the Constitution, just got the basic points. I went to a small country school; my graduating class was 59!

Good points you point out though. My scanner does cover all of the standard frequencies and 800 Mhz. I know the older cordless run on 24-30 Mhz, so that's probably why it states that warning.

Thanks for the info, and hope you didn't take me wrong!

Cheers!

Tom

[pdrayton]

Originally posted by tomf87
Thanks for the info, and hope you didn't take me wrong!
Absolutely not :)

I knew my statements were sound, but realized corroborating information was lacking. Fortunately I found the stuff I posted above. I learned some new stuff, too!

Have fun, and secure that wireless network! :D