PDA

View Full Version : Tracking chip in new 20s explodes when microwaved!


evolu
Mar 2, 2004, 02:17 PM
Big brother is watching you through Andrew Jackson's right eye. (http://www.prisonplanet.com/022904rfidtagsexplode.html)

XnavxeMiyyep
Mar 2, 2004, 02:29 PM
So, is this a real website, or is it a spoof?

Hemingray
Mar 2, 2004, 02:43 PM
Gee, wish I had money to 'burn' like that! :eek:

And I hope these guys get in trouble for destroying U.S. currency... :p

bennetsaysargh
Mar 2, 2004, 03:01 PM
anyone try it yet? ;) i sure don't even have 20 bucks to spare. i dunno. seems fishy because i haven't heard of any other cases where something has gone off like this.

Dippo
Mar 2, 2004, 03:19 PM
anyone try it yet? ;) i sure don't even have 20 bucks to spare. i dunno. seems fishy because i haven't heard of any other cases where something has gone off like this.


I tried it, but nothing happened.

The new $20 just sat there in the microwave be zapped by the microwaves.

G4scott
Mar 2, 2004, 03:27 PM
I'm really thinking that this is just some joke... RFID tags in twenty dollar bills? Maybe someday, but I really don't think that's a current feature of our currency...

agreenster
Mar 2, 2004, 03:43 PM
Paranoid dillusional freaks.

Besides, even if it were true, who gives a thuck? So the US Government is tracking where its money is going. Big freakin whoop!

:confused:

Counterfit
Mar 2, 2004, 03:46 PM
HAHA!! Funny stuff. Of course, I won't test it myself, just in case ;)

Also, they could be charged with a crime (I forget what it's called though :rolleyes: ) for destroying money like that. Many people don't know, but the actual coins and bills are property of the Federal Government, they just let everyone use it with the guarantee that it will be accepted anywhere in the country in exchange for goods or services (or "just because").

Sun Baked
Mar 2, 2004, 03:47 PM
I think somebody is trying to yank my monkey. http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11920&stc=1

Stelliform
Mar 2, 2004, 07:28 PM
I hope they are joking and not paranoid and delusional. I doubt it is true. Who goes walking around with $1000 cash?

Macpoops
Mar 2, 2004, 07:42 PM
Funny how his NEW twentys are a mix of the Newest (sans oval frame) twenty's and the older ones with Jacksons frame Offset

poopyhead
Mar 2, 2004, 07:53 PM
so they are all in his wallet, right? in a stack, but yet none of the 20's shown are really bent, in fact, all though they are a mixture of older and newer 20's they all appear crisp. I highly doubt this is real.

Mr. Anderson
Mar 2, 2004, 08:27 PM
Ha - conspiracy theorist are going to love this one :D

So who cares if they can track you, you still have to be in range of the money - these would have to be passive tags - ones that require you to scan them at short range to get the response. Sort of like the automatic tolls....the gov't won't be tracking you wallet from orbit :D

D

JamesDPS
Mar 2, 2004, 08:40 PM
HAHA!! Funny stuff. Of course, I won't test it myself, just in case ;)

Also, they could be charged with a crime (I forget what it's called though :rolleyes: ) for destroying money like that. Many people don't know, but the actual coins and bills are property of the Federal Government, they just let everyone use it with the guarantee that it will be accepted anywhere in the country in exchange for goods or services (or "just because").

Just to be precise, I'm pretty sure dollars are promisory notes from the government that they can be redeemed for the given amount in gold, hence currency is backed by the Federal Reserve and the country's stockpiles of gold. Since dollars REPRESENT government gold, they can be exchanged for goods and services when both parties agree to a price. Ergo, "medium of exchange". This is why people buy gold (i.e "redeem their dollars") when they fear the economy is going to tank and dollars won't be worth as much in the future.

As for a related topic: does anyone know if postage stamps count as legal tender, since they can be traded with the government for money?

Regarding burning the bills:
"Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is generally defined as follows: Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined not more than $100 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

"Defacement of currency in such a way that it is made unfit for circulation comes under the jurisdiction of the United States Secret Service. Their mailing address is:

United States Secret Service
950 H Street, NW
Washington, DC 20223."

Les Kern
Mar 2, 2004, 08:58 PM
Just to be precise, I'm pretty sure dollars are promisory notes from the government that they can be redeemed for the given amount in gold, hence currency is backed by the Federal Reserve and the country's stockpiles of gold.

Nope, not any more. Dollars are based on, well, nothing.

Counterfit
Mar 2, 2004, 09:04 PM
Nope, not any more. Dollars are based on, well, nothing. They're based on the collective belief that they have a value. No correlation to gold whatsoever. I don't know whether that's good or not, but that's the way it is.

evolu
Mar 2, 2004, 09:45 PM
They're based on the collective belief that they have a value. No correlation to gold whatsoever. I don't know whether that's good or not, but that's the way it is.

Right - I think Nixon took us off the gold standard. then we went to the silver standard and are off that now (can't remember who took us off that).

I have a silver reserve note somewhere - it says that it is redeemable for it's value in silver somewhere.

Also, there have been magnetic strips in money for awhile, in the previous 2 generations of our money. They work to identify STACKS of money. I think they are tracked at airports for custom's purposes.

Drug dealers, etc. tend to have large amounts of cash - that was the main logic behind it all.

I have no doubts this is real. But who knows how TRACKABLE these bills are?

TimDaddy
Mar 3, 2004, 03:09 AM
I actually just looked at that website last night. I was telling a coworker, Bobby, about it. I expected him to laugh at me. A little background on Bobby: Bobby was raised in church and considers himself a Christian. Bobby voted for Bush and defends nearly everything Bush says or does, and plans to vote for Bush again. Bobby doesn't beleive in the conspiracy theories, and any Big Brother fear is only when Democrats hold the power. And, Bobby is definately not considered a liar by anyone who knows him. Now, when I told Bobby about the "tracking devices" in the twenties, he said "Yep, My grandfather was driving a big sack of money up the interstate..." somewhere, I can't remember where he said "for his company. He said all of a sudden he had a helicopter hovering over him and cops surrounding him. The ran his license number, searched his vehicle, and explained that they had to make sure he wasn't a terrorist. Anybody carrying that much cash on the interstate in the middle of the night is suspect." Bobby said that his grandfather asked how they knew he had all the money in the first place, and the police explained that the helicopter just happened to be scanning the area. They said it was all kind of hit or miss until they get sensors installed on overpasses and more new bills in circulation, then everyone carrying a lot of cash will trigger an alarm. They then said "Sorry for the delay. Be careful." I normally wouldn't believe a word of this, but coming from Bobby, I had to consider it. I guess you have to know Bobby. ;)

edit: Oh yea, and Bobby credited it to "that damned homeland security act"

kettle
Mar 3, 2004, 04:44 AM
..if you only microwave a stack of cash a little bit?
Is there a way of scanning to see if the transponder wiggets are still working, even if they don't get hot enough to explode?

Would lead stop scanning?

How do I do the science on this dodgy piece of journalism?

crenz
Mar 3, 2004, 08:02 AM
(Bobby's story)

I doubt it. I have yet to see tracking chips that can be scanned from a helicopter. That doesn't mean I'm not against the widespread use of RFID chips, though.

krimson
Mar 3, 2004, 08:56 AM
Tell your friend bobby not to goto Vegas and accept drinks from women, he might end up in a bathtub full of ice and missing a kidney. ;)

neut
Mar 3, 2004, 10:19 AM
Nope, not any more. Dollars are based on, well, nothing.

actually it's now based on debt. we have no money and by accepting american money you are also accepting this debt.

****

would promissory notes also work in reverse? at the fall of american gov... if you are caught with cash will you have to produce enough goods to cover your part of the debt (equal to the amount of representative money you have)?

i really hate money.


peace.

Vector
Mar 3, 2004, 11:02 AM
Our currency is only based on the fact that the government says its valuable. After we went off the gold standard, we changed to what is called fiat currency. Fiat currency is valuable simply because it is deemed valuable by the Fed.

While defacement or mutilation of currency is technically illegal, its not something that the secret service has the time or concern to pursue. They will even give you new money if you send them mutilated cash as long as 51% of the bill is is sent in.

jedi180
Mar 3, 2004, 12:00 PM
Who would ever believe that there is a "tracking chip" inside a 20$ bill??? That pic is so low res those bills are prolly just photocopies. Who in their right mind would burn hundreds of dollars like that? Hold one up to the light, and look through it. I don't think even Apple could make a chip so small you can't see it ;)

And why would the gov want to put tracking chips in them anyway!?

cepheid

Stelliform
Mar 3, 2004, 12:22 PM
If anyone is that worried about it, just cut out AJ's right eye. ;)

krimson
Mar 3, 2004, 12:49 PM
my geeky CSI-loving-fanatic, LA Coroner-t-shirt-wearing, co-worker says that the burn marks are not consistant with internal eruptions, nor were they consistant in size/shape, and the burns were most likely made by a propane/butane torch. Also he suggested that anything that small shouldn't be able to generate enough heat for the cotton blend to burn that much.

but he's not a pro, so take that for whatever you want.

sonofslim
Mar 3, 2004, 12:52 PM
the article says "adapted from a letter sent to henry makow, ph.d."

google his name and i think your questions about the credibility of this report will be answered.

gotta go now, the black helicopters are beaming mind-control waves at me again. always during my lunch hour, dammit!

krimson
Mar 3, 2004, 12:56 PM
One other thing,

notice that the 20 on the lower right is not reflective.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/290204notes2.jpg


:D

Sonofhaig
Mar 3, 2004, 01:06 PM
at the fall of american gov...


You know something? Or is this a wish? :rolleyes:

etoiles
Mar 3, 2004, 03:18 PM
actually it's now based on debt. we have no money and by accepting american money you are also accepting this debt.



:D
hmmmmm...I'll have to remember that. I can really help you guys out of your dept, if you want. I am selfless, I know :p

MongoTheGeek
Mar 3, 2004, 03:35 PM
HAHA!! Funny stuff. Of course, I won't test it myself, just in case ;)

Also, they could be charged with a crime (I forget what it's called though :rolleyes: ) for destroying money like that. Many people don't know, but the actual coins and bills are property of the Federal Government, they just let everyone use it with the guarantee that it will be accepted anywhere in the country in exchange for goods or services (or "just because").

Its only a crime if you do it for fraudulent purposes.

rainman::|:|
Mar 3, 2004, 03:48 PM
While it is a crime to intentionally (not for fraud, but with foresight) deface bills, those that are accidentally damaged may be sent to the US treasury for replacement, if enough of the serial number is recovered. A famous case involved a farmer that dropped his wallet FULL of cash in a field, and a cow ate it. Apparently Bessie wasn't that valuable, as he had it slaughtered and recovered the partially digested money... Stuck it in a ziplock baggie, sent it off, and got crisp new money in return. Most people don't know this.

RFID chips have been proposed in money for a while, mostly for counting stacks. Unfortunately there are a thousand uses a lot scarier to the average American. RFID chips have never been officially introduced into currency, and I believe the treasury would tout this pretty big time. I really don't think this is at all true.

As for the strips, for many years now they have indeed had strips... I don't think they're magnetic, nor can they help count money. If you hold them up to light, you can see a flag and the denomination, and they glow different colors under black light. I think it's fraud prevention only, no technical use.

at any rate, an RFID chip would be visible to the naked eye, so someone who has a new $20 (i spent my last one this morning) and a halogen light to hold it against should easily be able to put this to rest.

paul

neut
Mar 3, 2004, 04:43 PM
If anyone is that worried about it, just cut out AJ's right eye. ;)

i think it would be better if they cut out their own right eye... if they're that worried.


peace.

Billicus
Mar 3, 2004, 05:30 PM
Can anybody say 1929? We're headed for another stock market crash, at record speed. We just go further and further into debt, borrowing from our futures. This method isn't going to work forever...:mad: This economy is out of control. As for the new 20's...I'm not going to say I disbelieve it because it sounds like something the government would do...:o

MrMacMan
Mar 3, 2004, 06:29 PM
Can anybody say 1929? We're headed for another stock market crash, at record speed. We just go further and further into debt, borrowing from our futures. This method isn't going to work forever...:mad: This economy is out of control. As for the new 20's...I'm not going to say I disbelieve it because it sounds like something the government would do...:o

Ah you don't remember the credit card scheme?

I currently own 56 credit cards... I transfer debt from one card to the next... really good system... I am about to card #39... once I get back to card #1 I'm screwed, but ah well.

:p

Dippo
Mar 3, 2004, 07:18 PM
Ah you don't remember the credit card scheme?

I currently own 56 credit cards... I transfer debt from one card to the next... really good system... I am about to card #39... once I get back to card #1 I'm screwed, but ah well.

:p


Don't they charge you 3% for each transaction?

If not, maybe you can hook me up with a loan :)

Cervotragik
Mar 3, 2004, 07:27 PM
I think U.S. dollar bills in particular are not related to gold...more like petroleum and war. That's why the canadian dollar is worth less ;)

sausages
Mar 3, 2004, 08:03 PM
hmm, very interesting!

i think having an easily identifiable compound / element / electronic chip in currency is a logical step for a government to take. it would provide a way to reduce trading in mass amounts of cash, perhaps this is a move to crack down on tax avoidance and dealings of illegal goods.
this would push people towards using electronic money, perhaps because it's easy to trace where it goes and prove it's legal.
this could also push a reemergence of bartering :)

cash is normally used for buying little things where it's too much effort to use your credit card and provide your signature or areas where electronic transactions aren't possible, like a garage sale for instance. having something traceable in cash could make this principle more concrete.
i wonder if this is a step towards phasing out physical money?

i think it's really satisfying being able to physically holding something that in itself is worth nothing, but represents in which people have mutually agreed. i would be quite upset if we moved to card scanning and fingerprint id to exchange for good and services :(

on the flip side, when - not if, 3rd parties get their hands on a scanning device that could detect a particular currency, it would create more crime than it helps prevent. (perhaps more so in terms of occurrence, rather than like big drug trades in cash)

also on the topic of money:

what happens when your at the airport, and there is that little check box that that says are you carrying more than x amount of cash with you?

what's the go with notes, represententing money. does a $20 bill really represent $18 plus the $2 (just a guess) it costs to produce? how does this factor in with what the currency is worth.

also, is all the electronic money backed up somewhere physically? is every last dollar that's in the economy backed up with a coin or note somewhere?

sorry if this is a bit all over the place ;) if your interested in this, or don't want to post because it's off topic, feel free to email me (naythis@yahoo.com)

neut
Mar 3, 2004, 09:23 PM
i think having an easily identifiable compound / element / electronic chip in currency is a logical step for a government to take. it would provide a way to reduce trading in mass amounts of cash, perhaps this is a move to crack down on tax avoidance and dealings of illegal goods.
this would push people towards using electronic money, perhaps because it's easy to trace where it goes and prove it's legal.

i can see local dealers starting up pay pal accounts to sell 'very expensive and exotic baggies'.


peace.

Daveman Deluxe
Mar 3, 2004, 11:30 PM
what's the go with notes, represententing money. does a $20 bill really represent $18 plus the $2 (just a guess) it costs to produce? how does this factor in with what the currency is worth.

For what it's worth, currency of any denomination costs less than a penny per paper note to produce.

smllpx
Mar 4, 2004, 12:05 AM
US Bills are printed with a ferrous oxide ink that is slightly magnetized. This is what bill scanners (think vending machines) read in order to verify that the bill is authentic.

Iron attracts microwaves, and a stack of similar bills will amplify the effect. There are no RDIF tags currently in US currency.

BTW the cost of printing a bill is far less than a US Dollar, but the cost of minting a coin is around 10 cents. Some how this evens out.

TimDaddy
Mar 4, 2004, 02:22 AM
I doubt it. I have yet to see tracking chips that can be scanned from a helicopter. That doesn't mean I'm not against the widespread use of RFID chips, though. Could there be a bigger device, that the bank actually put in the bag to identify it, that could be read from further away? My friend could very well be wrong, but I'm sure he's not just telling tall tales.

neut
Mar 4, 2004, 01:46 PM
Could there be a bigger device, that the bank actually put in the bag to identify it, that could be read from further away? My friend could very well be wrong, but I'm sure he's not just telling tall tales.

yeah, its called a big money symbol, "$", you've seen cartoons before... right? ;)


peace.

rainman::|:|
Mar 4, 2004, 03:47 PM
Nearly all large volumes of cash, to be used by the federal reserve, banks, or even private owners, have GPS devices in either the bag, the stacks of cash, or more likely both. This is possibly what did it, but unless there was a mistake, someone would know if they were carrying a GPS or not... unless, of course, it was obtained illegally, in which case they might not know it's there. I just don't see a legitimate owner of this cash being surprised by ANY tracking method-- if they could track him, he knew it ahead of time.

Of course, under the Patriot act, who knows who was spying on him, or turned a tip, etc...

paul

Dippo
Mar 4, 2004, 05:52 PM
Nearly all large volumes of cash, to be used by the federal reserve, banks, or even private owners, have GPS devices in either the bag, the stacks of cash, or more likely both. This is possibly what did it, but unless there was a mistake, someone would know if they were carrying a GPS or not... unless, of course, it was obtained illegally, in which case they might not know it's there. I just don't see a legitimate owner of this cash being surprised by ANY tracking method-- if they could track him, he knew it ahead of time.

Of course, under the Patriot act, who knows who was spying on him, or turned a tip, etc...

paul


If this was true then why can't bank robbers be tracked when they steal stacks of cash, or even armored cars be tracked when they are stolen, etc.

I don't think the government cares enough to track every $20, and even if the wanted to, it's not technically possible to hide GPS devices in money. Maybe one day this will become a reality but by then I doubt we will be using paper money anymore.

Counterfit
Mar 4, 2004, 08:07 PM
the article says "adapted from a letter sent to henry makow, ph.d."

google his name and i think your questions about the credibility of this report will be answered.

gotta go now, the black helicopters are beaming mind-control waves at me again. always during my lunch hour, dammit! Point taken, I'd take anything that man says with a ton of salt :rolleyes:

rainman::|:|
Mar 4, 2004, 09:21 PM
If this was true then why can't bank robbers be tracked when they steal stacks of cash, or even armored cars be tracked when they are stolen, etc.

I don't think the government cares enough to track every $20, and even if the wanted to, it's not technically possible to hide GPS devices in money. Maybe one day this will become a reality but by then I doubt we will be using paper money anymore.

this is precisely the reason the GPS units are used, and unless the criminal locates and removes each device, it's precisely how they're caught. You know how rare it is for a bank robbery to be successful? the only ones that can work are inside jobs, the ones that know how to quickly mask the tracking features.

Now why do you say it's not possible to use GPS in this manner? It's quite simple to create a device thin enough to be inserted into a stack of bills mostly unobtrusively... they're little rectangular boxes. and it's impossibly easy to put them in the cases and bags that transport cash.

edit:
the people that make them: http://www.3sisecurity.com/newsRelease.asp
The new system incorporates a thin, battery-powered circuit board embedded in a stack of real bills, appearing like any other currency bundle.* When the device leaves the teller’s station, its GPS receiver and wireless transmitter are activated.* The advanced, assisted-GPS receiver is able to locate the position of the currency bundle in buildings, cars or other hard-to-find locations.* Its radio transmitter uses the nationwide ReFLEX pager network to feed the location data to a secure Web site where authorized personnel can view the exact location of the stolen bundle and direct law enforcement to its recovery.

paul

MrMacMan
Mar 4, 2004, 09:42 PM
Don't they charge you 3% for each transaction?

If not, maybe you can hook me up with a loan :)

Most of the cards are 1% intrest... and obviously the money is building up...

I suppose I should spoof the last credit card so they have to track it back through 55 different credit card companies, by that time I will be outside of the country... far far away...

BTW the cost of printing a bill is far less than a US Dollar, but the cost of minting a coin is around 10 cents. Some how this evens out.

This is the idea behind killing off the penny, saving the government billions of dollars... haha.

jennyjennydz
Mar 4, 2004, 09:44 PM
Just to be precise, I'm pretty sure dollars are promisory notes from the government that they can be redeemed for the given amount in gold, hence currency is backed by the Federal Reserve and the country's stockpiles of gold. Since dollars REPRESENT government gold, they can be exchanged for goods and services when both parties agree to a price. Ergo, "medium of exchange". This is why people buy gold (i.e "redeem their dollars") when they fear the economy is going to tank and dollars won't be worth as much in the future.

As for a related topic: does anyone know if postage stamps count as legal tender, since they can be traded with the government for money?

Nixon took the US off the gold standard. US dollars most certainly do NOT represent government gold and have not for 30+ years, sorry. Dollars have value because the government says so and we accept that.

People buy gold because gold has intrinsic value and paper money does not - so when times are bad it is wiser to have something real rather than just a piece of paper. The government of the US has done many things over the years to actually discourage gold ownership.

For many years it was a federal offense to own gold bullion as a US citizen. Now its heavily restricted and tracked by the IRS/Treasury deptartment. There are actually transactional limits on how much you can buy at once. People get around that by buying foreign gold bullion coins and claiming collectible status to avoid restriction.

Postage stamps are not legal tender and they cannot be traded with the government for money (with any ease). Don't believe me? Go buy $500 face value in US stamps from a post office and turn around and go to any other post office and try to sell them back. Not going to happen. Heck a stamp dealer (for collectors) won't give you face value on new stamps.

Dippo
Mar 4, 2004, 10:21 PM
this is precisely the reason the GPS units are used, and unless the criminal locates and removes each device, it's precisely how they're caught. You know how rare it is for a bank robbery to be successful? the only ones that can work are inside jobs, the ones that know how to quickly mask the tracking features.

Now why do you say it's not possible to use GPS in this manner? It's quite simple to create a device thin enough to be inserted into a stack of bills mostly unobtrusively... they're little rectangular boxes. and it's impossibly easy to put them in the cases and bags that transport cash.

edit:
the people that make them: http://www.3sisecurity.com/newsRelease.asp


paul


I stand corrected :)

I didn't know that GPS technology had advanced that far, but even with that, they still can't embed GPS in the bills themselves, at least not yet.

jennyjennydz
Mar 4, 2004, 10:24 PM
I stand corrected :)

It's OK. In my lifetime, I predict all Americans will have GPS tracking devices implanted in them by law. You heard it here first. Write it down.

rainman::|:|
Mar 5, 2004, 01:11 AM
It's OK. In my lifetime, I predict all Americans will have GPS tracking devices implanted in them by law. You heard it here first. Write it down.

A couple of months into my current job, our bosses took us out to lunch as a group. We got on the subject of child abductions, and both of my bosses raved about how we need this type of homing beacon implanted. Their rationale, honorable: if a child is abducted, they can be located immidiately. The truth, not so much-- First off, they'd find ways around this (as some criminals have done with GPS packs)(probably surgical), and secondly, it's giving the government an absolute power, and you know what they say about absolute power... we'd be in a facist police state before you could break wind.

so i agree, and am quite terrified of the prospect...

paul

Santaduck
Mar 5, 2004, 04:17 AM
Just one comment re: "why would anyone destroy money..."

A scorch mark would not render the currency invalid, I believe. Even with quite a bit of damage or even missing pieces, it still is legal tender, so even if the microwave thing did scorch (haha) the bills, you could still use the money. Maybe someone could look up how much damage is still ok.

And if you really want to burn money completely, well, that's illegal. But if it gives you a thrill, well I have spent more throwing a ball at a carnival for a stuffed animal =\, for probably much less thrill.

______

re: conspiracy theories & gps.. hm... now i'm thinking mass smallpox innoculations "for public safety" (a long time x-files like topic)... hm... well I have one already so there.

hotwire132002
Mar 5, 2004, 10:17 AM
Put this to rest once and for all:

Someone with a metal detector, scan a new 20. If it goes off, there's an RFID chip... If not, no chip. I think that would work, anyway...

Dippo
Mar 5, 2004, 12:02 PM
Put this to rest once and for all:

Someone with a metal detector, scan a new 20. If it goes off, there's an RFID chip... If not, no chip. I think that would work, anyway...


I already microwaved some new $20s and they didn't burn up...

Mantat
Mar 5, 2004, 12:33 PM
Just a note: GPS devices dont work if there is no direct link between the sky and the receiver.

Proof: you cannot use satelite navigation in cities with tall building if there is no satelite directly over it, it doesnt work underground and with hand held GPS, even tree can block the signal.

This is why the tracking of stolen car with GPS based system doesnt work while system that use cellular phone triangulation (sp?) can work everywhere.

Unless there has been major change in the technology in the past 2 years, I am right...

2jaded2care
Mar 5, 2004, 04:20 PM
If anyone's really worried about this, they can just send their twenties to me! :D

Dippo
Mar 5, 2004, 05:42 PM
If anyone's really worried about this, they can just send their twenties to me! :D

I am worried about the government tracking me down so I need to unload all my cash...

What's you address so I send you the cash?

Better yet you can send me your bank account number and SSN and I will wire you the cash :D

MacRAND
Mar 5, 2004, 06:12 PM
Honest Judge, I wasn't laundering no money. Those 20s just caught fire by a accident. I was trying to put the fire out, that's all.
And the smell proves it, too! I didn't have no other source of water with me...
I keeps my money in the microwave cuz I don't trust no banks. Nobody looks in there at my office, cuz nobody knows how to cook, not even my secretary.
Who knew that would happen when I was nukin' a Lasagna TV dinner...just cause I left my stash of cash in there don't mean nuttin'.

JeffTL
Mar 6, 2004, 10:02 AM
Even if there is an RFID chip, it shouldn't matter to you unless you are counterfeiting $20 bills. Legitimate US paper money DOES have clearly visible unique serial numbers, afterall.

MacRAND
Mar 6, 2004, 01:09 PM
Even if there is an RFID chip, it shouldn't matter to you unless you are counterfeiting $20 bills. Legitimate US paper money DOES have clearly visible unique serial numbers, afterall.The lack of an RFID chip is a benifit with regards to preventing Governmental TRACKING, it has nothing to do with counterfeiting. Are you not familiar with "1984", and we're not talking about Apple Macintosh here. Big Brother IS watching, especially since 9/11. Have you been to Washington DC lately, seen the black Government Chevy SUBURBANS and Black Boxes along the roadways? Our Capital is a city in siege. Our government wants to keep track of the movement of people, data/information, MONEY, weapons, munitions and explosives.
• Metal detectors sense weapons on people
• Cameras can visually identify people
• Computer records match people - IDs, credit card records, and names on government data bases (Homeland Security, CIA, FBI, INS and NSA)
• Black boxes are designed to sniff out explosives and some munitions, and to sense RFIDs in our MONEY - especially when large quantities are present.
• Black boxes are now in government hands that sense keystrokes and movements on your USB tethered Mouse or Keyboard, it's easier with wireless (thank Apple and Bluetooth for that), and reportedly what your monitor is displaying, all from the curb sitting in the "public right-of-way" and not physically entering your house.
• Government computers (CIA, NSA, & FBI) monitor the flow of information, communications and data. Emails, money transfers, websites, memory backups, flow of data from point to point. Nothing is safe, secure or sacred.

You think RFID in money is there to identify counterfeit. No, it's there to identify CASH bills of legitimate money -- If the Government is interested in YOU, they may want to know - What's in your wallet, your suitcase, your car or home?
If you do not deal in CASH, then the Government already knows or has access to your credit record (tied into security for air transportation) your driver's license and ID, and most importantly of all, your financial accounts under your name or SSN and your credit cards.

Having or paying for things using CASH used to afford a considerable degree of privacy. How about now?
Are you feeling violated yet? Paranoid? Feeling naive?
Think you have a "right to privacy"? Check out the Constitution and Bill of Rights, there is no fundamental "right to privacy" that protects us from governmental inquiry or invasion of privacy.
Now that's a bitter, virtual reality.
Not worried because you are honest? Think again, hard! Our Federal Government cannot and does not assume that anyone is honest or innocent... and that includes YOU and me.

True, jeffTL, "it shouldn't matter" to the Secret Service unless you are counterfeiting paper money (don't try using Adobe's Photoshop to help print counterfeit bills, there's code inside now to prevent it, at Government request no less) or conspiring to assassinate the president.
It's the other agencies you have to sweat (To excrete sensible moisture from the pores of the skin; to perspire.).
It does matter to them...and it should matter to US as a matter of principle and fundamental human civil rights.

Have a nice day :)

JeffTL
Mar 6, 2004, 10:18 PM
Like I said, even if there WERE an RFID chip in the $20, it wouldn't matter, because bills have had serial numbers for years. Ever heard of Where's George? It's insanely easy to track money by serial number, so all an RFID chip can add is another layer of anti-counterfeiting protection.

The lack of an RFID chip is a benifit with regards to preventing Governmental TRACKING, it has nothing to do with counterfeiting. Are you not familiar with "1984", and we're not talking about Apple Macintosh here. Big Brother IS watching, especially since 9/11. Have you been to Washington DC lately, seen the black Government Chevy SUBURBANS and Black Boxes along the roadways? Our Capital is a city in siege. Our government wants to keep track of the movement of people, data/information, MONEY, weapons, munitions and explosives.
• Metal detectors sense weapons on people
• Cameras can visually identify people
• Computer records match people - IDs, credit card records, and names on government data bases (Homeland Security, CIA, FBI, INS and NSA)
• Black boxes are designed to sniff out explosives and some munitions, and to sense RFIDs in our MONEY - especially when large quantities are present.
• Black boxes are now in government hands that sense keystrokes and movements on your USB tethered Mouse or Keyboard, it's easier with wireless (thank Apple and Bluetooth for that), and reportedly what your monitor is displaying, all from the curb sitting in the "public right-of-way" and not physically entering your house.
• Government computers (CIA, NSA, & FBI) monitor the flow of information, communications and data. Emails, money transfers, websites, memory backups, flow of data from point to point. Nothing is safe, secure or sacred.

You think RFID in money is there to identify counterfeit. No, it's there to identify CASH bills of legitimate money -- If the Government is interested in YOU, they may want to know - What's in your wallet, your suitcase, your car or home?
If you do not deal in CASH, then the Government already knows or has access to your credit record (tied into security for air transportation) your driver's license and ID, and most importantly of all, your financial accounts under your name or SSN and your credit cards.

Having or paying for things using CASH used to afford a considerable degree of privacy. How about now?
Are you feeling violated yet? Paranoid? Feeling naive?
Think you have a "right to privacy"? Check out the Constitution and Bill of Rights, there is no fundamental "right to privacy" that protects us from governmental inquiry or invasion of privacy.
Now that's a bitter, virtual reality.
Not worried because you are honest? Think again, hard! Our Federal Government cannot and does not assume that anyone is honest or innocent... and that includes YOU and me.

True, jeffTL, "it shouldn't matter" to the Secret Service unless you are counterfeiting paper money (don't try using Adobe's Photoshop to help print counterfeit bills, there's code inside now to prevent it, at Government request no less) or conspiring to assassinate the president.
It's the other agencies you have to sweat (To excrete sensible moisture from the pores of the skin; to perspire.).
It does matter to them...and it should matter to US as a matter of principle and fundamental human civil rights.

Have a nice day :)

MacRAND
Mar 7, 2004, 12:00 AM
Like I said, even if there WERE an RFID chip in the $20, it wouldn't matter, because bills have had serial numbers for years. Ever heard of Where's George? It's insanely easy to track money by serial number, so all an RFID chip can add is another layer of anti-counterfeiting protection.You really miss the point, Jeff.

To read a Serial Number, someone has to have possession of the bill and look at it. This is the classic "let's see if your money is any good" at Taco Bell or McDonald's transaction. But the serial number is really no good there, right? Only one bill.

With the RFID chip, all your money can be "read" without your knowledge, and without your permission while it is in your wallet, pocket, moneybelt, wife's purse, suitcase, home, office... Do you like that?

The thread is about real money, not counterfeit, and whether the RFID chip can be destroyed by micro-waving bills.
That does not convert Mint printed bills into counterfeit (after all, the serial numbers are still there, right?) but it may remove a detection device by destroying the RFID chip.

To put it another way, if
1. "bills have had serial numbers for years" and
2. "if there WERE an RFID chip in the $20, it wouldn't matter?
3. then, considering all the other built-in safeguards with ink and paper and holograms,
what do you suppose is the real reason our Federal Government had in adding an RFID chip if not to be able to count bills in a container
A. without opening it,
B. without any detection by or
C. without any disclosure to the owner
that his/her money is being counted?

If you continue to be hung up on serial numbers on real bills, or whatever on counterfeit bills, you've missed the point. Get it?

And if you think smugglers or drug traffickers care, forget it. Diamonds are just as fungible* and easier to hide, are generally undetectable, and easy to retrieve. And most are expert (they can afford to hire and pay the best experts) in wire transfers that do not involve paper money anyway. So what it boils down to, is the poor slobs of this world (me! you?) have our civil rights trashed as an excuse for our government to go after people who are going to avoid detection in anyway.

Or, maybe the Feds really are after that suitcase containing $100,000 in hundreds or twenties conducted at the local street corner Starbucks over a cup of Java while wirelessly connected to the internet with a 12" PowerBook checking the latest MacRumors.

fungible*
adj : of goods or commodities; freely exchangeable for or
replaceable by another of like nature or kind in the
satisfaction of an obligation
n : a commodity that is freely interchangeable with another in
satisfying an obligation

Dippo
Mar 7, 2004, 12:18 AM
With the RFID chip, all your money can be "read" without your knowledge, and without your permission while it is in your wallet, pocket, moneybelt, wife's purse, suitcase, home, office... Do you like that?



That would great...you could walk down the street with a little device that scans how much money each person has in their wallet. Then when you find someone who is carrying around a lot of cash, you can rob them

I guess I can thank the government for making my job so much easier :)

TimDaddy
Mar 7, 2004, 12:37 AM
That would great...you could walk down the street with a little device that scans how much money each person has in their wallet. Then when you find someone who is carrying around a lot of cash, you can rob them

I guess I can thank the government for making my job so much easier :)

Nah, too complicated. Just look for the white earbuds and rob that guy!

MacRAND
Mar 7, 2004, 01:20 AM
That would great...you could walk down the street with a little device that scans how much money each person has in their wallet. Then when you find someone who is carrying around a lot of cash, you can rob them

I guess I can thank the government for making my job so much easier :)Yes, but only after the IRS takes their share. Stand in line. :p

MacRAND
Mar 7, 2004, 01:44 AM
Nah, too complicated.
Just look for the white earbuds and rob that guy!Could be a foolish move.

Hey, the Dude's listening to tunes on an iPod with them white Ear Buds, and
1. He probably wouldn't be able to hear you and he'd be a lousy uncooperative victim
2. He spent all of his money on his iPod and buying iTunes online, so he ain't got Jack...
3. It might be Al Gore on his way to an Apple Board meeting, and all his wife will let him have is cab fare and lunch money, he'll give you the pod but his name is engraved on it "From Steve, to my pal Al", or
4. The guy stole somebody else's iPod and he's lookin' for a buyer so he can sell the thing 'cause he's out of cash himself. Wait 'til he finds out you ain't buyin', he'll get so pizzed he might ding you himself.

Better get Dippo to loan you his Money Detector so you can do it right.
Or, you and Dippo could work together and just split the loot.
Be sure to leave JeffTL alone cause he's got the Serial Numbers of all his bills recorded neatly in a FileMaker Pro 6 DATA BASE on his PowerBook, and since it's so easy to trace money when you have the serial numbers, you guys are really in trouble if you mess with him.

Me? I'm a Scot, never carry much cash (no matter how much allowance me wife gives me that day) I got nothing on me.
Here's my wallet, be sure to use those credit cards cause their all nearly maxed out and I'll swear that you stole 'em all a month ago. You guys are the ones who bought all that Mac computer stuff, not me.

So, Mr. VISA, Dippo & TimDaddy done it, not me. See, they're thieves - they got that there Money Detector, and they don't even work for the IRS nor any other federal agency neither.

Xapplimatic
Mar 7, 2004, 12:35 PM
Big brother is watching you through Andrew Jackson's right eye. (http://www.prisonplanet.com/022904rfidtagsexplode.html)

Let's see.. about the "uniform burns".. You know, if one of them had a piece of metal flake attached and they were all folded together in the same wallet or stacked neatly when microwaved, I can guarantee the patterns woudl happen to look uniform.

Does anyone actually think the Fed stupid enough to put RFID tags all in the same exact noticeable location?

The fake clincher is (as a previous post said).. it fails to reason that the burns are on both new and old $20.. since the article makes no claim about old bills already having tags, the credibility lacks.

Counterfit
Mar 9, 2004, 10:54 PM
blah blah blah As previously noted, these would have to be passive tags, so they can't be read at a distance, it has to be up close. Unless they start having replaceable batteries on $20 bills, then we should start getting suspicious. And I really doubt that the Feds have devices that can read interference coming off of a USB or VGA/DVI/ADC cable. And wireless? Maybe if Bluetooth could make it all the way inside my house, I'd be worried, but it can't even go through to walls to the bathhroom 10 feet away from me. I don't think the Feds would be able to sniff it out 70 or so feet away on the street, and even the, I doubt that they would care what song I was listening to, or if I was controlling DVD Player, VLC, Keynote, or PowerPoint with my T68i.


And I thought I was paranoid. I guess that's only while driving...