Canon T1i officially released: 15.1MP, 1080p video, $900.

[mattcube64]

http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/25/canon-eos-digital-rebel-t1i-now-official/#comments

Saw this while browsing before bed. Thought you guys might be interested to see it. Sorry if this has been posted; I didn't see anything on the first page.

Anyway, I've toyed with the idea of getting a DSLR for a loooong time. And while I lean towards the Alpha series if I buy in the $500 range, I've considered the D90 my "dream camera" for a while now. But the $1300 asking price is a bit high for me. Maybe this will force Nikon to cut the price a bit?

[OreoCookie]

There is already a thread on Canon's newly released dslr (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=674404).

[iTiki]

I think you can still get the D90 for around 1K if you shop around. I paid around $900. for the body only.

[rogersmj]

Looks like a great camera, will definitely stack up well and provide some good competition for the D90.

Your price comparison isn't accurate, though...$1200 or so for the D90 kit includes a much more expensive 18-105mm lens versus the 18-55mm included in the T1i kit. Comparing body only, you're looking at $800 for the T1i and a little under $900 for the D90 (usually...I got mine for $850). Pretty close overall in specs and price...should put some downward pressure on the D90 price eventually.

[gkarris]

Are we still trying to use SLR's as Videocameras??? :eek:

:rolleyes:

[thomahawk]

omgosh.. maybe i'll stop saving for my Canon 40D and just buy this one LOL

[cube]

Yeah, right. 1080p video at 20 fps.

[ftaok]

Are we still trying to use SLR's as Videocameras??? :eek:

:rolleyes:

Yes. This is a feature that is not going away anytime soon.

While everyone has their preferences, I agree that it's not for everyone.

Personally, I love the idea of a good dSLR with an adequate movie mode. I have weighed the options of having a both a dSLR and an HD-camcorder vs. having one device that does both. For me, photos are the priority, so I would choose a dSLR with a movie mode (as opposed to a camcorder with still-photo capabilities).

If you've ever tried to take photos and video simultaneously with two devices, it's just not possible, unless you have two right hands. Having one device that does both is ideal.

Personally, I don't think Canon's implementation is the greatest for the T1i, so I'll probably sit this round out and wait for the next Rebel update (or the 60d/7d).

ft

[sangosimo]

grr i only the dataghost got his 40d video hack working. i will probably keep this 40d forever

[SUPERSTEVE9219]

Are we still trying to use SLR's as Videocameras??? :eek:

:rolleyes:

yea I hate it when camera companies give us more features!! :rolleyes:

[ArtandStructure]

Yeah, right. 1080p video at 20 fps.

Not sure what Canon was thinking there. Practically worthless.

...and people complain about the D90 video specs :rolleyes:

Art and Structure (http://www.artandstructure.com)

[LittleCanonKid]

Not sure what Canon was thinking there. Practically worthless.

...and people complain about the D90 video specs :rolleyes:

Art and Structure (http://www.artandstructure.com)At least Canon gives the option for 1080p while at the same time offering the same 720p, 30fps option that the D90 has. It's got the same video resolution/frame rate as the D90, and then some! ;)

[svndmvn]

At least Canon gives the option for 1080p while at the same time offering the same 720p, 30fps option that the D90 has. It's got the same video resolution/frame rate as the D90, and then some! ;)

I thought the D90 had 24fps, which is actually better, right? Unless, and I'm not really aware of that, you can reduce the 30 to 24..

[gkarris]

Not sure what Canon was thinking there. Practically worthless.

...and people complain about the D90 video specs :rolleyes:

Art and Structure (http://www.artandstructure.com)



Yes, like the lovely "video wobbling"... :rolleyes:

[ArtandStructure]

At least Canon gives the option for 1080p while at the same time offering the same 720p, 30fps option that the D90 has. It's got the same video resolution/frame rate as the D90, and then some! ;)

Ah I didn't see they offer 720p at 30fps. Much better. The 1080 at 20fps is still worthless. 20fps is poor no matter how detailed it is.

For the record though I much prefer the look of 24fps to 30. The D90 shoots 24fps.

My point though was that people rag the D90 video and only 1 person thinks 20fps is less than stellar on the Canon. Nice.

I don't care if Canon or Nikon came out with 20fps. I'd rag on it equally the same. It just doesn't make sense.

Yes, like the lovely "video wobbling"... :rolleyes:

Ah, yes. The "wobbling" inherent in a CMOS sensor...like the one Canon uses in the 500D as well. I would roll eyes here but I'm not sure the double standard would be as obvious that way.

It isn't about Canon vs Nikon. It's about 20fps which, again, makes no sense...and again I'd say the same if it was Nikon throwing a 20fps higher video mode in one of their cameras. Maybe that's why the D90 tops at 720. Who knows. 20fps is silly though. Apparently it's there for bragging rights to shoot at 1080.

Whatever. Like the D90, it isn't the point of the camera anyway. I was just surprised such a thing would be done at all.


All the best
Jesse Widener
Art and Structure (http://www.artandstructure.com)

[cube]

Ah, yes. The "wobbling" inherent in a CMOS sensor...like the one Canon uses in the 500D as well. I would roll eyes here but I'm not sure the double standard would be as obvious that way.


What does the wobbling have to do with semiconductor tech? It's all about the electronic shutter implemented.

[wheelhot]

Ah I didn't see they offer 720p at 30fps. Much better. The 1080 at 20fps is still worthless. 20fps is poor no matter how detailed it is.

For the record though I much prefer the look of 24fps to 30. The D90 shoots 24fps.

My point though was that people rag the D90 video and only 1 person thinks 20fps is less than stellar on the Canon. Nice.

I don't care if Canon or Nikon came out with 20fps. I'd rag on it equally the same. It just doesn't make sense.

Aaah, well actually the T1i does both 720p @ 30fps and 1080p @20fps, D90 only do 720p @ 24fps. Then there is another issue bout the 24fps, I know video tech ppl will say it better but frankly speaking, to the eye of a customer, does it matter? Will they be able to see the difference? Cause remember a dSLR is meant to take photos! not to be a pro vid camera. Heck, even the manufacturers do not want to make dSLR video capabilities too pro cause it might end up eating video cam market.

Ah, yes. The "wobbling" inherent in a CMOS sensor...like the one Canon uses in the 500D as well. I would roll eyes here but I'm not sure the double standard would be as obvious that way.

Well not to go against your point, but it seems D90 "wobbling"/rolling shutter effect is more present compared to the Canon version, so far I've seen lots of video taken by 5D MKII and the "wobbling" effect is more common in the D90 vids, so far I only see 1 video taken by the T1i so cannot finalize my conclusion...yet.

[butterfly0fdoom]

What does the wobbling have to do with semiconductor tech? It's all about the electronic shutter implemented.

For video, CMOS records line by line for each frame as opposed to the whole frame in one take the way CCDs do.

[fiercetiger224]

Ah, yes. The "wobbling" inherent in a CMOS sensor...like the one Canon uses in the 500D as well. I would roll eyes here but I'm not sure the double standard would be as obvious that way.

It isn't about Canon vs Nikon. It's about 20fps which, again, makes no sense...and again I'd say the same if it was Nikon throwing a 20fps higher video mode in one of their cameras. Maybe that's why the D90 tops at 720. Who knows. 20fps is silly though. Apparently it's there for bragging rights to shoot at 1080.

Well, Nikon's got a long way to go with their CMOS sensor implementation for video. The rolling shutter issue is MUCH worse on the D90. Any slight movement yields the wobble effect. Canon's isn't anywhere as bad, just because they make video cameras, so they have experience in that field. IMO, CMOS is okay for still video shots, but nothing more. Fast panning has that nasty skewing, and if you do any kind of car shots, etc, you run into a very nasty wobble effect. Sure, image quality looks fantastic, but very video-like. CCDs look better for video, as it has a more film-like aesthetic to it.

Anyway, yes the 1080p is just to say "we have the first consumer 1080p SLR camera". Even though it has 20fps, there are creative ways to use it. I think for most people, 720p will be good enough.

[ArtandStructure]

Aaah, well actually the T1i does both 720p @ 30fps and 1080p @20fps, D90 only do 720p @ 24fps.

Reread my second post. I completely understand the Canon offers both rates. My point was the 1080p at 20fps is senseless. You can deal with the "wobble" on either camera by working creatively but there is nothing you can do to make up for the fact that the video is shot at 20fps in 1080. It will be noticeable no matter what you do to it. Well, I suppose you could try to interpolate frames in post process but that would be a tremendous task.

Then there is another issue bout the 24fps, I know video tech ppl will say it better but frankly speaking, to the eye of a customer, does it matter? Will they be able to see the difference?

I can definitely see the difference, and whether or not most people can see the difference it is one of the factors which makes "film" footage look like film footage. Movies are shot 24fps. Television is shot ~30fps. It is a subconscious aesthetic at the very least which lends to the "film experience". There are companies who shoot on video (~30fps) because it is cheaper than shooting film, and then pay tens of thousands of dollars to have it transferred by 5:4 pulldown to a 24fps "look" because that look is that important.

If you have the opportunity to see one of the 120hz or higher refresh flat screen TVs out there, watch a hi def film on one. It is still 24fps but the refresh makes it look bizarrely smooth and clear in a television soap opera way, losing the"film" aesthetic. I saw Dark Knight on one of these and it was disturbingly weird. It was a Hollywood production with Hollywood production values that somehow looked like a cheap daily soap at the same time.

I can definitely tell the difference and frankly so could the consumers also watching that set, and I prefer 24fps without a doubt, but to each their own.

As a side note, I will be taking a D90 to Glacier National Park with me in June for photos. I will try to take some footage as well and post when I get the time.

All the best
Jesse Widener
Art and Structure (http://www.artandstructure.com)

[hector]

If you have the opportunity to see one of the 120hz or higher refresh flat screen TVs out there, watch a hi def film on one. It is still 24fps but the refresh makes it look bizarrely smooth and clear in a television soap opera way, losing the"film" aesthetic. I saw Dark Knight on one of these and it was disturbingly weird. It was a Hollywood production with Hollywood production values that somehow looked like a cheap daily soap at the same time.


Interesting stuff, I had always wondered why HD TVs make movies look rubbish... Same if you're watching something like friends, which I assume is shot at 24fps because it has that same look to it?

[ArtandStructure]

Interesting stuff, I had always wondered why HD TVs make movies look rubbish... Same if you're watching something like friends, which I assume is shot at 24fps because it has that same look to it?

I should have been clearer. Movies are shot at 24fps. Blu-ray players and some of the HD TVs can be set to 24fps, and the television I was looking at (Samsung series 6) was playing The Dark Knight at 24fps BUT the 120hz refresh rate (which is twice the rate of most HDTVs) made the 24fps "look" like 30fps...or higher...and thus made it "look" like broadcast television (and Friends, which is shot ~30fps), which is more cheaply made and shot on tape in part because it is cheaper to shoot tape than film.

In all fairness, the clarity of the TVs is quite impressive. I don't mean to imply the clarity or detail of the TV looked cheap or TVish. It is the frame rate which looked cheap and TVish. Further, the Samsungs have a Low-Medium-High setting on the 120hz refresh rate and the Low setting is an acceptable balance for maintaining visual quality without overdoing the processing.

I am actually curious to see No Country for Old Men on Blu-ray, on a quality 1080p set at 24fps to see how it looks. It is one film I especially remember thinking I really liked the film "look" of in the theater and it would be my datum for how close this whole Blu-ray/1080p/120hz whatever setup is getting to the real thing.

24fps has a subtle "edginess" to it 30fps doesn't have. Some say 30fps is more "realistic" but the 24fps adds to the "fantasy" aspect of film's "suspension of disbelief"/"another world" aesthetic. It is part of what sets films off to us as something "different" than TV.


All the best
Jesse Widener
Art and Structure (http://www.artandstructure.com)

[shady825]

If you've ever tried to take photos and video simultaneously with two devices, it's just not possible, unless you have two right hands. Having one device that does both is ideal.


Very true.
I recently went to an NHRA drag race here in Arizona and I wanted to shoot pictures and video. I had to rely on my grandpa for video while I shot the pictures. It would be nice to just be able to 'flip a switch' and record video on my DSLR.

This new rebel seems pretty appealing... To me anyways. (but to bad I just bought the XS a few months ago)

[Stormbringer]

I'm working as a promoter for Canon, and I do hope so much they will give me one of those!:):)

Personally I'm more of a Nikon guy, but don't tell anybody!:D

[ftaok]

Very true.
I recently went to an NHRA drag race here in Arizona and I wanted to shoot pictures and video. I had to rely on my grandpa for video while I shot the pictures. It would be nice to just be able to 'flip a switch' and record video on my DSLR.Yeah, doing it yourself is an excercise in futility. I suppose that if I had an R-strap or something, I could have done better ... but I digress.

The result of trying to do photos and video at the same time is that you end up with mediocre photos and shaky video. I have proof of this ... my daughter's 2nd b-day party has a ton of mediorce photos and awful video. Sensibly, I decided to put the camcorder away and just shoot photos.

This new rebel seems pretty appealing... To me anyways. (but to bad I just bought the XS a few months ago)Personally, I'm sitting this upgrade round out. I can hold out another year for a better video device, so I'm hoping the next Rebel or the successor to the 50D has better video specs. I'm looking for at least 1080/24p,30p in AVCHD and stereo mic (with a mic port).

[shady825]

Personally, I'm sitting this upgrade round out. I can hold out another year for a better video device, so I'm hoping the next Rebel or the successor to the 50D has better video specs. I'm looking for at least 1080/24p,30p in AVCHD and stereo mic (with a mic port).

Yea same here.
Like I said I just recently got the XS. It will hold me over til the next updates.. Im in no hurry.

[ftaok]

Yea same here.
Like I said I just recently got the XS. It will hold me over til the next updates.. Im in no hurry.

Allright. Give me a call when the 550D/T2i comes out. We'll do a Power-Buy.

;)

[cube]

For video, CMOS records line by line for each frame as opposed to the whole frame in one take the way CCDs do.

I fail to see what this has to do with CMOS, instead of just being a issue with the design of the sensor.

[cube]

A quick googling shows diverse implementations of CMOS sensors with global shutters.

Here's a presentation where you can see the issues:

http://www.cmosis.com/publications/slides-cmosis-vision-11062008.pdf

[adenauer]

With the EOS Rebel T1i, analog to digital signal conversion is executed by a 14-bit processor, which generates digital data with incredibly smooth tones. A feature that originally appeared in top-of-the-line pro digital SLR cameras, the 14-bit conversion gives incredibly smooth transitions from light to dark colors with far less risk of "banding." A sky at sunset is a perfect example. With this rich 14-bit gradation, the EOS Rebel T1i (http://www.canont1i.net) offers RAW images of the highest quality that can be processed with Canon’s Digital Photo Professional software. Even JPEG files, which are always finished at 8-bits per channel, use the full 14-bit conversion initially to generate the best possible color and tonal detail.

[Benguitar]

Nice! I may upgrade to a future model of that when my XSi becomes obsolete.

[AlaskaMoose]

omgosh.. maybe i'll stop saving for my Canon 40D and just buy this one LOL

Well, all depends on the following: the T1 is in the Rebel X-series, except that it has a video feature. The 40D is within another series of cameras. It's larger, heavier, has an alloy body, and you have control of the camera and all its settings at your fingertips.

[wheelhot]

Darn, can't we just let the video function in a dSLR stay as a add-on w/ auto function rather then wanting a full manual control, this is just a feature for dSLR people and the last I check, dSLR is for taking photos not recording videos. :p

Also, can't we get the manufacturers to put a stop focusing at dSLR w/ video function? I'm more interested to see advancement in AF system and sensor technology, hoping to see better high ISO performance. :rolleyes:

[AlaskaMoose]

Darn, can't we just let the video function in a dSLR stay as a add-on w/ auto function rather then wanting a full manual control, this is just a feature for dSLR people and the last I check, dSLR is for taking photos not recording videos. :p

Also, can't we get the manufacturers to put a stop focusing at dSLR w/ video function? I'm more interested to see advancement in AF system and sensor technology, hoping to see better high ISO performance. :rolleyes:

Nikon and Canon are making a lot of money from entry-level cameras, and it seems that a lot of the consumers are hungry for bell and whistles such as video. We can see that on cell phones, too:D

I don't need options for movie clips and such from a camera I use to take still photos, since I can record long and high quality movies with a camcorder that is capable of stereo sound. As my kids have grown up and moved out, I don't have any use for video. In fact I still have a HI8 Nikon camcorder that I used to film my family and friends. I do have to transfer the videos to DVD one of these days :)

Other than that, those who want video options on their cameras, and enjoy motorcycles, would probably enjoy this video taken with a Canon 5D II. This is a wild ride:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtF1HtBRB60&fmt=18

[JoshJosh117]

Is there any way to reduce the 720p frame rate to 24fps? To get the "movie effect"?

[cube]

Dealing with both video and still cameras at the same time is a hassle. It's good that they are putting video in DSRLs, but they still need autofocus, like in the GH1.

[wheelhot]

Well lets hope once they implement auto focus in dSLR w/ video it will put most people to quiet mode and not asking for full manual. . .

[jake.f]

I already knew about this and i really want one. I dont have a DSLR but i think this would be a perfect start because of the immense range of canon accessories. The price for the body, a Canon 18-55 mm IS Lens and a Canon 55-250mm IS lens in australia is $1729 which is unfortunately a bit expensive. And with the video feature, i think it would be extremely useful for those rare times when something must be documented with video. The fact it is 20fps at 1080p is annoying but it is 30fps at 720p which is still a great resolution. Also being 15.1 MP means it is separate in image size to the compact camera class. Also the 55-250mm lens would easily be turned into a 500mm equivalent with a canon 2x teleconverter which would be good because conon telephoto lenses are a bit pricey.

Honestly though if i can get enough money of some relatives then im sure as hell buying this.

[LittleCanonKid]

I already knew about this and i really want one. I dont have a DSLR but i think this would be a perfect start because of the immense range of canon accessories. The price for the body, a Canon 18-55 mm IS Lens and a Canon 55-250mm IS lens in australia is $1729 which is unfortunately a bit expensive. And with the video feature, i think it would be extremely useful for those rare times when something must be documented with video. The fact it is 20fps at 1080p is annoying but it is 30fps at 720p which is still a great resolution. Also being 15.1 MP means it is separate in image size to the compact camera class. Also the 55-250mm lens would easily be turned into a 500mm equivalent with a canon 2x teleconverter which would be good because conon telephoto lenses are a bit pricey.

Honestly though if i can get enough money of some relatives then im sure as hell buying this.I'm not quite sure if the kit lens/55-250 will resolve adequately to cover the resolution-hungry sensor, but that's the price you pay with such high resolution.

Also, I wouldn't count on that teleconverter plan, since I'm fairly sure it won't work with EF-S lenses...

[jake.f]

I'm not quite sure if the kit lens/55-250 will resolve adequately to cover the resolution-hungry sensor, but that's the price you pay with such high resolution.

Also, I wouldn't count on that teleconverter plan, since I'm fairly sure it won't work with EF-S lenses...

Yeh im not sure about the teleconverter really as ive heard mixed reviews. And what do you mean about the lens??

[stagi]

this looks like an awesome camera for someone getting started! I might get one to try out some of the video features, not as good as the 5d mark 2 but great price point.

[LittleCanonKid]

Yeh im not sure about the teleconverter really as ive heard mixed reviews. And what do you mean about the lens??It's not really the matter of mixed reviews, it's just functionality.

As for the lenses, it's basically this: because the sensor has such high-resolution, it needs detail to fill in all of those pixels. If the lenses it's paired with can't adequately capture enough detail to satisfy what the sensor wants, the image will be less-than-optimal.

[wheelhot]

Even if he has teleconverter, the 55-250 wont work cause its aperture will be slower then f/5.6. Furthermore of course the 500mm range sounds amazing, but the image quality degradation by a zoom lens will be terrible. There is a reason why telephoto lens are expensive and why people invested on it.