Gates buys thousands of ibooks! (or at least helps support them)

[flyfish29]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

If you don't believe me check out the pic below and the link.

http://www.apple.com/education/profiles/maine/

Crazy world huh! And to think I was ripping Bill the Bully just the other day for his unethical business practices...this makes me rethink at least a litte of what I said. :D

[powerbook4me]

This makes me rethink at least a litte of what I said. :D

He is just one of those great guys.

He could fund a small country with the amount of donations he puts out.

[thatwendigo]

He is just one of those great guys.

Let's not get carried away now. Soon, we'll have someone nominating him for Time's Man of the Year, and then I just have to hang myself.

He could fund a small country with the amount of donations he puts out.

He could throw even more out without batting an eye. I have a hard time taking it seriously when people are lauded for chump change proportional donations. A quarter from a homeless man is the same gesture as a million from Gates.

[powerbook4me]

He could throw even more out without batting an eye. I have a hard time taking it seriously when people are lauded for chump change proportional donations. A quarter from a homeless man is the same gesture as a million from Gates.


And that quarter from that homeless man is not a great deed?

Come on now... :rolleyes:

[flyfish29]

A quarter from a homeless man is the same gesture as a million from Gates.

Actually I think if you cruch the numbers which I tried to do a couple of times the percentages work out to a penny donation from a middle class income family! which of course in my mind is not a great deed...especially considering so many people have lost their jobs due to M$'s unethical business practices. :mad:

[thatwendigo]

And that quarter from that homeless man is not a great deed?

Come on now... :rolleyes:

You're right, my comparison sucked. That quarter, with a little searching for change, will get the homeless man a cheap meal at McDonalds. A million dollars is so tiny that Gates would never notice it if it were gone.

That is what I was trying to say. Microsoft or Gates giving a paltry million is a shallow PR gesture, not a genuine one.

[powerbook4me]

That is what I was trying to say. Microsoft or Gates giving a paltry million is a shallow PR gesture, not a genuine one.


100's of millions.......

And no, its not a PR gesture.

[musicpyrite]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

If you don't believe me check out the pic below and the link.

http://www.apple.com/education/profiles/maine/

Crazy world huh! And to think I was ripping Bill the Bully just the other day for his unethical business practices...this makes me rethink at least a litte of what I said. :D

I've always know there to be a lot of stupid people in the world, but even I didn't think Billy Boy was that stupid.

[QCassidy352]

MS may suck, but Gates is not a bad guy. He gives away hundreds and hundreds of millions. Yes, he's worth ~$50 billion, but remember, he doesn't exactly have that lying around in cash. His worth is almost all due to MS stock. In terms of cash, he's giving away a significant portion.

Also, say what you want about how much it is to him - it's a lot of money for the people it's helping. There was an article in the Times a few weeks ago about the Gates Foundation and the work it does. Gates helps a *lot* of very needy people.

[thatwendigo]

And no, its not a PR gesture.

You don't know that any more than I know that it is. Just call it your opinion and be done with it.

Also, to the later poster... So what? I'm a poor college student, and yet I manage to help raise proportionally far more of my personal worth than Gates does for those who are in even greater need than I am. When I was in highschool, I participated in events that would bring in over $1000 a night for local charities, food banks, shelters, and other tangible, real needs.

At the time, I was worth less than $10,000 a year, yet I gave out of my own pocket on every occasion.

[powerbook4me]

You don't know that any more than I know that it is. Just call it your opinion and be done with it.

Go check out where Mr. Gate's money is going when he passes away. Then you tell me why he would do that "for good PR"

When I was in highschool, I participated in events that would bring in over $1000 a night for local charities, food banks, shelters, and other tangible, real needs.

At the time, I was worth less than $10,000 a year, yet I gave out of my own pocket on every occasion.

So those people who helped you out(the people who actually gave their money those nights you made $1,000) that only gave a little bit: Are they not as good because they only paid a little bit to help your events?

[cjc343]

It is funny, but it doesn't sound like Bill's $$$ are going towards Apples, it sounds like it is more of a general fund.



Microsoft is bad, they are an evil monopoly, that doesn't make Bill Gates a bad person. He could be a bad person, but I don't think he is. The same applies to M$ employees, they work for m$, that doesn't make them bad people.



[edit: Read carefully, not all of it is from Gates.....]

[Powerbook G5]

Let's not get carried away now. Soon, we'll have someone nominating him for Time's Man of the Year, and then I just have to hang myself.

Just remember, Stalin was also Man of the Year...

[powerbook4me]

Just remember, Stalin was also Man of the Year...

And hitler (http://www.time.com/time/poy2000/archive/1938.html)

and einstein....and a lot of other people :p

[yamabushi]

We had word that the Gates Foundation was going to pay for new computers at our university. Everything was all set and the money was about to be sent. Then they learned that we had ordered Macs. They cancelled their donation and we had to scramble to find the money to pay for our order from other sources. I am now convinced that the primary motivation for computer donations to schools is to make sure Macs do not become a threat to Microsoft again.

[7on]

Well don't forget that Macs also run VPC and Office, two of the more expensive products from Microsoft. What's prolly not said is that each laptop will carry MS Office and VPC. More money than if it was a regular PC with Windows and Office.

[1macker1]

We all know that Bill is a giver, why haven't I ever seen these types of articles about mr. jobs.

[7on]

We all know that Bill is a giver, why haven't I ever seen these types of articles about mr. jobs.

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/business/employment/0,39020648,2101729,00.htm

[question fear]

this is a shot in the dark but an earlier poster mentioned gates giving significantly from his pocket rather than from the stocks.
i don't know a ton about the stock market, but for charity or otherwise if gates suddenly liquidated a chunk of his stock options it would be noticed and the stock would drop...so it might be a business decision to keep that worth separate in terms of donations.
*not defending him, just offering up the possibility that he's covering his interests*

[Vector]

And hitler (http://www.time.com/time/poy2000/archive/1938.html)

and einstein....and a lot of other people :p

Time almost made Bin Laden man of the year, but a large portion of their subscribers threatened to cancel their subscriptions.

[cait-sith]

why not pick on the ikea ceo? he's got more cash than gates.

[Grimace]

Gates did not go to the Apple Store and buy a bunch of iBooks. Through his incredibly generous Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation gave a lot of money to increase technology in Maine's schools. Maine decided to give 7th/8th graders iBooks.

Don't bash the man, his company may suck, but he gives away millions each year to help others.

[thatwendigo]

Go check out where Mr. Gate's money is going when he passes away. Then you tell me why he would do that "for good PR"

Simple... He's the kind of egomaniac who wants to be remembered fondly, so he takes the ill-gotten goods of his life and tries to be seen in another light once he's passed on and it doesn't do him any good anymore.

So those people who helped you out(the people who actually gave their money those nights you made $1,000) that only gave a little bit: Are they not as good because they only paid a little bit to help your events?

Yes. I'll bite the bullet.

They didn't give as much as I did, proportionally, so I was being more charitable than they were.

why not pick on the ikea ceo? he's got more cash than gates.

Does he make a pretense of being charitable? If so, then I have the same problem with him that I do with Gates.

[Vector]

why not pick on the ikea ceo? he's got more cash than gates.

It was the IKEA founder, not the CEO, and he was never richer than gates. THat was an error by a swedish mag that overestimated how the company's worth related to Ingvar's own worth. Here is Forbes follow-up article about it Article (http://www.forbes.com/compensation/2004/04/06/cz_lk_0406kamprad.html).

[iPC]

Bill's company may suck, but he is putting a lot of his personal proceeds to good work:

http://gatesfoundation.org/AboutUs/

You'll notice his father and wife are both heavily involved.

As for Jobs... he may have a $1 salary... but he has a HUGE stock option package:

http://www.macnn.com/news/23806

To best illustrate the point do a google search for bill gates charity vs steve jobs charity:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=bill+gates+charity&btnG=Google+Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=steve+jobs+charity&btnG=Google+Search

Not much more to say really.

:rolleyes:

[flyfish29]

Gates did not go to the Apple Store and buy a bunch of iBooks.

Really?!?! :eek: :D :eek: :D

In response to another poster I did read it closely and saw that there were other contributors to the Maine technology program. I just thought it was ironic and unlike his foundation to not pull the funding if it wasn't for windows products like has been done before (as one poster noted above).

Also, as far as Steve Jobs vs. Bill Gates...you can't compare their net worth by any means and at least Steve is not using unethical business practices to destory the competition so his company owns the market place. Yes, Steve has stock options and got a bonus, but he made the company what it is today...a leader and innovator in many things! He did so knowing if he wasn't successful he wouldn't get paid squat...well a dollar I guess. :D

[cjc343]

I wasn't suggesting that people didn't read it clearly. I just know that the first time I read it, I thought that all the money was coming from Gates....

[parrothead]

As much as I don't like Windows or MS I have to say people really shouldn't be complaining that Gates doesn't give enough. He donates a ton of money, period. Yes, he probably could afford to give more, but he could also not give any at all, so I am willing to give him a thumbs up for that, maybe not time person of the year, but a thumbs up nonetheless.

[Abstract]

I can't believe I bothered responding, but here it is.

Bill Gates may have "only" donated $1 million away, and yes he could have donated more, but his generosity can't be summed up by what he donated in this case. The total amount he donates is huuuuge. If he only donates a $1 million here and there, then some of you are right when saying that he's not generous. However, that isn't the case.

Some of you said that he could have donated more, but how much would you donate to such a cause? If I were as rich as Gates, I wouldn't have donated more money to Maine's initiative, just like I wouldn't donate $1 million dollars to buy girl scout cookies. I wouldn't donate $15 million to the Toronto Humane Society because it doesn't make sense to. It would just make the Humane Society better because they can hire a few more people, but I'm sure $1 - 2 million is more than enough (it costs $10,000/week to run right now).

Donating to cancer research.....sure, I'd donate more than $1 million if I were Bill. Fighting world hunger......yes, more than $1 million would make sense. However, the amount given should actually depend on what the cause is. In this case, its one state in the country trying to buy computers. He has probably donated millions to other schools and other states as well. That should be summed up and taken into account.

Bill is a generous man, unquestionably. Steve isn't nearly as charitable. Bash him instead if you're going to bash someone.

[gwangung]

You don't know that any more than I know that it is.

I do. It's my job.

And what Gates does is considerable.

[flyfish29]

I am not necessarily saying (don't think I ever said so) that he is not generous. In fact he is...just not as generous as some might think. I have been trying to say that yes, he does donate tons of money to good causes, but he made his wealth hurting many people by way uf UNETHICAL business practices...people who didn't deserve to have their company destroyed by the monolpolistic power Bill created himself and was run based solely on the culture he created himself!


The other issue I have addressed has been the fact that he is being made out to be such a treamendously giving person when he is in fact only giving a very small amount(percentage) of his money to charity purposes. I don't dispute and never have the fact that he doesn't have to give any away...or that he is not giving large amounts of cash away. But no one should ever say he is making a huge personal sacrifice either. It is like if he and I were at the toy store and they asked me to buy a present to put under the tree for a disadvantaged child. I might be able to afford $25 for that present which might be 1% of my monthly income...bill might be able to afford $500,000 present which might be less than 1% of his income. It seems that the debate here is more giving? Me or Bill? Not dollars wise, but who is giving up more of their own to help others? I would argue that I am making more of a personal sacrifice for charity than Bill. Especially since I am a teacher and work 75+ hour weeks for less money than an assistant manager gets at McDonalds! Just my opinion though.

I think all too often we only recognize the big $ givers in society which is easy to do, but also not necessarily best for society. I believe that so many in society make so many personal sacrifices financially as well as with donation of time that are often overlooked.

It is the little people in society that really make things change for the better, not the few large donators.

[gwangung]

I am not necessarily saying (don't think I ever said so) that he is not generous. In fact he is...just not as generous as some might think. I have been trying to say that yes, he does donate tons of money to good causes, but he made his wealth hurting many people by way uf UNETHICAL business practices...people who didn't deserve to have their company destroyed by the monolpolistic power Bill created himself and was run based solely on the culture he created himself!

This isn't an issue that I would disagree with you on. However...


The other issue I have addressed has been the fact that he is being made out to be such a treamendously giving person when he is in fact only giving a very small amount(percentage) of his money to charity purposes. I don't dispute and never have the fact that he doesn't have to give any away...or that he is not giving large amounts of cash away. But no one should ever say he is making a huge personal sacrifice either.

This is being done out of the Gates Foundation. He has given a total of $10 billion to the foundation. At the time he gave the endowment money for the Foundation, the amount of stock he gave was about 15-20% of his total assets. That's considerable no matter how you look at it.

Moreover, most really wealthy donors give in their 50s, 60s and 70s. Gates began in his 30s (mostly due to the twin facts that a) he got married, and b) his Mom died). Rag on him all you want, but it's a fact that he's an unusually generous donor for his age.

[iJon]

wow, wendigo, you really hate gates. even with all your talks about proportional giveaways, at the end of the day, you gave away hundreds or thousands, while he has given away millions. not saying your not contributing but he is simply giving away much more than you ever will so i dont think you have much room to bash. we may not like windows or gates (personally i have no problem with either) but he is giving away lots, and even more when he dies.

iJon

[rdowns]

wow, wendigo, you really hate gates. even with all your talks about proportional giveaways, at the end of the day, you gave away hundreds or thousands, while he has given away millions. not saying your not contributing but he is simply giving away much more than you ever will so i dont think you have much room to bash. we may not like windows or gates (personally i have no problem with either) but he is giving away lots, and even more when he dies.

iJon

wendingo's the forum's biggest Apple apologist. Just read the threads. Bashing Gates for his generosity is over the top, even for him.

[flyfish29]

This is being done out of the Gates Foundation. He has given a total of $10 billion to the foundation. At the time he gave the endowment money for the Foundation, the amount of stock he gave was about 15-20% of his total assets. That's considerable no matter how you look at it.

Moreover, most really wealthy donors give in their 50s, 60s and 70s. Gates began in his 30s (mostly due to the twin facts that a) he got married, and b) his Mom died). Rag on him all you want, but it's a fact that he's an unusually generous donor for his age.

Your second point is very valid! I wonder where you get your figure for the first? If in fact it is true 15-20 % of his TOTAL ASSETS then I stand very corrected. I could see it being that much of his total stock worth, but he isn't all stock...his home alone is worth $$$$$. Just wondering what the numbers are. I am to sick and too busy right now to research it any further...wasn't my intent to bash or support Bill by this thread...,just to point out a funny thing that his money when to buy or support an initiative which chose iBooks...36,000 of them!

[Frisco]

Gates may or may not be a bad person, I don't know him.
Gates may or may not ne a generous person, again, I don't know him.

My definition of generousity is one whom makes a sacrifice of himself/herself for the benefit of others (or another person), without the expectation of return.

Has Bill done this? I don't know?

[iJon]

Gates may or may not be a bad person, I don't know him.
Gates may or may not ne a generous person, again, I don't know him.

My definition of generousity is one whom makes a sacrifice of himself/herself for the benefit of others (or another person), without the expectation of return.

Has Bill done this? I don't know?
well i dont think he is gaining much more than simple respect from giving away billions. sounds generous to me.

iJon

[Frisco]

well i dont think he is gaining much more than simple respect from giving away billions. sounds generous to me.

iJon

Maybe,

I do hope so. There's enough greed in this world already!

[7on]

The Widow's Offering

41Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. 42But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins,[10] worth only a fraction of a penny.[11]
43Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything--all she had to live on."

[flyfish29]

Is it possible that Bill is a very giving man or that his wife "changed" him to become a very giving man? I think I am more giving and a much different person as a result of my wife. I think if I was as rich as Bill before I met my wife I would have given some back, but not near as much as now that I have lived with my wife for over 10 years.

I also wonder if Bill knowingly does/did his unethical business practices with M$.

The bottom line may be that he IS a very giving person from the heart AND he IS/WAS unethical in his business practices BUT never realized (realizes) his unethical practices.

I never said he should give more or less money to charity. I do say that people should see him for what he seems to be: A (somewhat former) cuthroat business person who gives a lot of cash to charity. Not necessarily the most generous person from the heart (financially yes, but not from the heart).

Johnny

[gwangung]

Your second point is very valid! I wonder where you get your figure for the first? If in fact it is true 15-20 % of his TOTAL ASSETS then I stand very corrected. I could see it being that much of his total stock worth, but he isn't all stock...his home alone is worth $$$$$. Just wondering what the numbers are. I am to sick and too busy right now to research it any further...wasn't my intent to bash or support Bill by this thread...,just to point out a funny thing that his money when to buy or support an initiative which chose iBooks...36,000 of them!

It's in the record that he's given $10 billion to his foundation; you can look up the IRS 990 records (go to guidestar.org for that). But it was all over the news in 1999 when he gave his biggest gift of $5 billion. Now, granted, he's almost assuredly made up for the chunk he's given away...but it's kind of hard not to over five to seven years (and the fact that he doesn't spend THAT much money..he leaves it alone and lets it grow. And a 5-10% annual return is not that hard to get.) It's well known that he sold off a chunk of stock and diversified...

[gwangung]

Is it possible that Bill is a very giving man or that his wife "changed" him to become a very giving man? I think I am more giving and a much different person as a result of my wife. I think if I was as rich as Bill before I met my wife I would have given some back, but not near as much as now that I have lived with my wife for over 10 years.

I'll tell you something....the Gates family was a very philanthropic family before Trey Gates started Microsoft. His mother and father were quite active in the charity and fundraising scene in Seattle years before Microsoft begun. And there are news reports in the late 80s and 90s about the elder Gates talking to him about giving back [the irony being that any gifts then would have been MUCH less than what he is now giving, even in absolute dollars]

I think a) starting a family got Bill to thinking about his legacy, and b) the death of his mother, to whom he was very close to, got him to thinking about giving back...and probably years before he would have otherwise thought about it...

[flyfish29]

I'll tell you something....the Gates family was a very philanthropic family before Trey Gates started Microsoft. His mother and father were quite active in the charity and fundraising scene in Seattle years before Microsoft begun. And there are news reports in the late 80s and 90s about the elder Gates talking to him about giving back [the irony being that any gifts then would have been MUCH less than what he is now giving, even in absolute dollars]

I think a) starting a family got Bill to thinking about his legacy, and b) the death of his mother, to whom he was very close to, got him to thinking about giving back...and probably years before he would have otherwise thought about it...

Aww...this thread is getting so touchy feely...who would have thunk it? :D

Sorry, had to add that...anyway thanks for the info both on his family which I didn't know as well as the financial statements surrounding the founding of the foundation. Just a couple more things to consider: How much of the foundation money was donated due to a tax write off benefit? Any idea?

Another thing to keep in mind. I just talked to my wife tonight...no not for the first time...but she works for a school reform movement who works closely with the Gates foundation and very large grants. The word on the streets of non-profits is this: They are very odd in the things they require for verification purposes. Usually when grants are funded the grantor requires research verification. Many of the people that have worked with the foundation have said things to my wife like: They have a very high amount of the grant (compared to most grantors) going to the research verification process. They also ask for very odd things to be verified by the research. She says no one can put a finger on it but many feel something is not quite right. By that they don't mean the foundation is bad or crooked. Just that they operate very differently than other grant funders and what is considered the norm. I don't know enough specifics about it and as we all know not being the norm is a good thing (look at Apple). :D

Thanks for good dialogue!

Johnny

[thatwendigo]

Some of you said that he could have donated more, but how much would you donate to such a cause?

I have a standing promise to myself that, should I come into possession of large quantities of money (through the lottery, unknown family willing to me, etc.), I will divest at least half of it as cahritable donations. Right now, I barely support myself, so I can't give money as often as I would like.

Bill is a generous man, unquestionably. Steve isn't nearly as charitable. Bash him instead if you're going to bash someone.

Does Steve make a pretense of charitable donation, using money that he took away from companies that were crushed by his anti-competitive practices? If so, then I have the same issue with him that I do with Gates. Until that day, at least he's more consistent.

I do. It's my job.

And what Gates does is considerable.

So you're Gate's PR flack, then? If not, then you don't know what his motives are. Hell, even if you were, you wouldn't know for certain, because you're not Bill himself.

Moreover, most really wealthy donors give in their 50s, 60s and 70s. Gates began in his 30s (mostly due to the twin facts that a) he got married, and b) his Mom died). Rag on him all you want, but it's a fact that he's an unusually generous donor for his age.

He also got rich a hell of a lot younger than most people, and that throws the numbers off. He ought to be compared to people of equal wealth, not to people of equal age.

wow, wendigo, you really hate gates. even with all your talks about proportional giveaways, at the end of the day, you gave away hundreds or thousands, while he has given away millions.

Proportional to my income, and to my expected income for my lifespan, I'd be willing to bet that I give more than Gates. In absolute terms, you're right that I won't scratch the surface of what he does, but I hate to hear people talk about how some rich bastard with more money than he can possibly spend is a good guy for spending what, to him, is comparative pocket change.

Once, in a month I earned $600, I gave $200 of that to various causes. Gates won't match that percentage until he's dead.

not saying your not contributing but he is simply giving away much more than you ever will so i dont think you have much room to bash. we may not like windows or gates (personally i have no problem with either) but he is giving away lots, and even more when he dies.

Irrelevant, immaterial, and morally insignificant. To me, it doesn't matter how much money you give, only the degree of sacrifice being made. A quarter from a kid who gets a dollar allowance a month is more than $10,000 from Ford Motors.

wendingo's the forum's biggest Apple apologist. Just read the threads. Bashing Gates for his generosity is over the top, even for him.

Now, now... Just because you can't refute me on technical issues doesn't mean you ought to try it on philosophical ones.

Ad hominem abusive, sir. I take notice.

well i dont think he is gaining much more than simple respect from giving away billions. sounds generous to me.

Hmmm. Trading money he got through illegal and unethical business for respect? Sounds like buying popularity to me.

[gwangung]

Aww...this thread is getting so touchy feely...who would have thunk it? :D

Sorry, had to add that...anyway thanks for the info both on his family which I didn't know as well as the financial statements surrounding the founding of the foundation. Just a couple more things to consider: How much of the foundation money was donated due to a tax write off benefit? Any idea?

Generally, the ways donations have been set up is that only about half of your income gets to be deducted as far as taxes are concerned. So, at most, half of that stock gift could have been applied. Off the top of my head, I don't think Gates had that much stock sales that year, so not that much of that was applied for tax purposes.

[gwangung]

He also got rich a hell of a lot younger than most people, and that throws the numbers off. He ought to be compared to people of equal wealth, not to people of equal age.


Sorry, but you're wrong. Quite a few people become wealthy in their 30s and 40s. They build their businesses and grow them quite quickly; they're quite wealthy when they're young. [What? You thought Gates invented entrepreneurism?] But almost none of them give until their 50s and 60s, because they simply don't WANT to think about it until then.

Gates is an exception to that rule. I don't think you quite realize how astounding that truly is.

[5300cs]

For all the money he's bilked(sp?) people out of for crappy versions of windows he SHOULD be giving money away. How about m$'s chasing after corportations making sure they have legal copies of windows? Shall we tack on the financial loss to corportations having to recover from windows-targeting worms because of m$'s casual attitude towards security?

He gives billions away, so he's a Great Guy :rolleyes: Stop people, I'm getting all misty eyed...

[crenz]

Gates donating so much money is definitely a nice gesture, but let's not forget where the money comes from. Microsoft has been convicted of unethical business practices and abusing their monopoly in several courts. Spending money you didn't earn the right way may be charitable, but is not ethical.

Also, be reminded that the quote Bill Gates likes to cite, "The man who dies rich, dies in disgrace", is by Andrew Carnegie. Well known for his philantrophist legacy, it is less well known that he was one of the legendary robber barons.

There's an interesting article in German about rich "philantrophs" in telepolis (http://www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/inhalt/co/9463/1.html)

If you have enough money, you can rewrite history.