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justinhasnohops
Jul 5, 2009, 06:18 PM
First off, Lakers winning the championship, seems a bit overrated huh? I'm personally a fan of the Miami Heat, but we all know they didn't have a chance,THISYEAR.

All these new trades are such a surprise, Shaq to the Cavaliers? Shaq was cool when he was in Miami or the Lakers or Orlando. He's just pushing it now. He left Miami when they started to suck, the Suns and most likely Cleaveland if they don't win this year.

Blake Griffin expectations?

thegoldenmackid
Jul 5, 2009, 06:21 PM
I don't know how much Shaq can help. Being a Suns fan (here comes the flood) one of the keys to his success was the fact that the Suns' trainers are extremely strict. His diet was under a huge (Shaq-size) microscope. That made him leaner and faster and kept him healthy. If he's injured for half the season, he's not helpful. I understand the "he only needs to be there in the playoffs" but a full healthy Shaq is key. Also, he was not so effective in stopping Mr. Howard.

iThink the Spurs might get their revenge, although iThink it might be the last time with this core.

I also saw Richard Jefferson play what has to be the worst game of his career when he was with the Nets and the played Phoenix. Mr. Jefferson missed two dunks, one of them wide open. It was a great comedy show. He also had some other problems in that game...

justinhasnohops
Jul 5, 2009, 06:26 PM
That's respectable, you live in the area your a fan. Same with me and Miami. Shaq has probably got 1-4 years left under his belt, any longer would be pushing it.

Richard Jefferson, hmm. He got traded didn't he?

thegoldenmackid
Jul 5, 2009, 06:28 PM
That's respectable, you live in the area your a fan. Same with me and Miami. Shaq has probably got 1-4 years left under his belt, any longer would be pushing it.
Umm..I live in Dallas. :D

Richard Jefferson, hmm. He got traded didn't he?
Spurs.

justinhasnohops
Jul 5, 2009, 06:29 PM
Well then thats just.. SUNS?!?!?!? Why not the Mavericks.

The Spurs have my favorite college player, Jack McClinton.

thegoldenmackid
Jul 5, 2009, 06:33 PM
Well then thats just.. SUNS?!?!?!? Why not the Mavericks.

The Spurs have my favorite college player, Jack McClinton.

I liked them back in the Barkley days. First place I watched basketball was w/ my family who lives in the desert...

zioxide
Jul 6, 2009, 12:15 AM
celtics signed rasheed!

him and kg are gonna be smokin blunts daily.

imaketouchtheme
Jul 6, 2009, 12:56 AM
Well, if you look at what the Magic were missing in the finals, it was a solid guard. With the addition of Vince Carter and having potential all-star Jameer Nelson back and healthy, I strongly believe that the Magic have huge potential in winning the championship this year. If you break down their team, well heck, I will for ya:

PG - Jameer Nelson: One of the top point guards last year. He was on his way to the all-star game had he not damaged his shoulder. He will be once again a top competitor next year.

SG - Vince Carter: One of the better players in recent memory. He's a Lebron James Tracy McGrady type of player. He can shoot the three and drive the ball. I know he's getting a little old, but that's not going to stop him, especially with the other players he has to share the ball with.

SF - Hedo Turkoglu: Amazing player. If you watched him in the Finals, he played a Kobe type game. He showed Lamar Odem that he too can get the shooting foul. One of the best three shooters in the league with an amazing left-handed drive. Also, come-back player of the year two years ago.

PF - Rashard Lewis: Once again, a great player. He's a lot like Turkoglu, but more athletic. In (I think) game three of the Finals, he completely took over and dominated the game. I believe he could do that about every game if he wanted to be a stand out player.

C - Dwight Howard: The best center, hands down. He completely dominates the game on both ends of the court. Easily the best down low defensive man, the best down low on the offensive end as well. He was second in the league in double-doubles (some guy in NY had him beat) and had the most rebounds in the league last year, along with blocks. He's also crazily athletic. Not to mention, he's getting better with age. The only thing he was missing was someone he could dish the ball out to or help with a drive or two, they got him that with Vinsanity.

I typed that, not going to reread it or check for any references, I'm an avid NBA fan and I'm pretty sure it's all accurate.

(P.S. I'm a Magic fan)
:)

thegoldenmackid
Jul 6, 2009, 12:58 AM
Umm... that Small Forward will be playing in the North, i.e. Canada.

jecapaga
Jul 6, 2009, 12:59 AM
First off, Lakers winning the championship, seems a bit overrated huh? I'm personally a fan of the Miami Heat, but we all know they didn't have a chance,THISYEAR.

All these new trades are such a surprise, Shaq to the Cavaliers? Shaq was cool when he was in Miami or the Lakers or Orlando. He's just pushing it now. He left Miami when they started to suck, the Suns and most likely Cleaveland if they don't win this year.

Blake Griffin expectations?

Not sure why you're saying the Lakers winning the championship is overrated as they were predicted before the season started to be in the Finals. Boston hit the injuries and the Cavs got punked by Orlando. Lakers did have the most talented and deepest team. They now lose Ariza to Houston only to pick up Ron Artest. If they can manage to sign Lamar Odom and Bynum remains healthy, nobody will want to play this team.

If KG comes back strong though...Boston is obviously a very dangerous team and I wouldn't want to play them. I don't see Shaq as the answer in Cleveland but it will make for a fun few games to watch. Eastern conference finals is probably Boston vs. Cleveland and that will be bloody.

Blake Griffin. I'd actually love to see the Clippers get SOME love and not season after season of terrible luck, terrible decisions and horrible injuries. I hope Griffin does great...he looks a beast.

Chaszmyr
Jul 6, 2009, 01:01 AM
I'm a Suns fan too, and from a Suns fan perspective I don't like the Shaq trade. However, I'm also a Cleveland fan, so I like it. If Shaq stays healthy for the whole season, I think Cleveland is just one decent player addition from winning the 2010 championship... I'm hoping they can pick someone solid up on the free agent market.

imaketouchtheme
Jul 6, 2009, 01:02 AM
Umm... that Small Forward will be playing in the North, i.e. Canada.

Alrighty, I knew that he ended the talks with Portland, wasn't aware that he went darting to Toronto.

Well, I'm leaving my post the way it is, it's better looking with him in the lineup. ;)

thegoldenmackid
Jul 6, 2009, 01:07 AM
I'm a Suns fan too, and from a Suns fan perspective I don't like the Shaq trade. However, I'm also a Cleveland fan, so I like it. If Shaq stays healthy for the whole season, I think Cleveland is just one decent player addition from winning the 2010 championship... I'm hoping they can pick someone solid up on the free agent market.

I'll be in Boulder on Tuesday...weird. I like the Shaq trade in that if they keep Amaré then it will help him out, the middle was way too clogged with the both of them. Also, if Shaq gets injured, that's a lot of problems. But then again, I didn't like the Shaq trade to begin with; but, keeping him around...

Abstract
Jul 6, 2009, 01:46 AM
SF - Hedo Turkoglu: Amazing player. If you watched him in the Finals, he played a Kobe type game. He showed Lamar Odem that he too can get the shooting foul. One of the best three shooters in the league with an amazing left-handed drive. Also, come-back player of the year two years ago.


....I typed that, not going to reread it or check for any references, I'm an avid NBA fan and I'm pretty sure it's all accurate.

(P.S. I'm a Magic fan)
:)

You do realise that Turkoglu signed with the Raptors, no? ;)




I think the Raptors will be huge. I know what people are thinking ---- I'm crazy. However, they were first in their division just 2 years ago (weak division, but still....), and they were probably better last year than they were 2 years ago. However, people were playing hurt, and that hurt the season. This year, the Raptors have another team that's at least as good as the team from 2 years ago, except Bargnani is now really awesome, and Turkoglu can contribute well enough.

We also have a centre now that can play defence, so I don't see how things can go wrong again unless there are more injuries to Calderon and Bosh.



And with regards to Shaq: I think he's still amazing. Dwight Howard is completely overrated, IMO. After so many years, he hasn't developed an offensive move, and watching him take a hook-shot from further than 5 feet is dreadfully embarrassing for him, and for Ewing, who has had to endure teaching the Shrek of basketball how to be graceful on offence. Ewing knows he failed, too. The guy has been in the league for years now. A centre that can't even hook the ball is useless. Ok, he can rebound and block some, but centres like that tire out by the time they're 30 and their knees hurt. How will he contribute then?? What you'll have is a centre with above average rebounding and blocking abilities, but no scoring touch.

thegoldenmackid
Jul 6, 2009, 01:58 AM
And with regards to Shaq: I think he's still amazing. Dwight Howard is completely overrated, IMO. After so many years, he hasn't developed an offensive move, and watching him take a hook-shot from further than 5 feet is dreadfully embarrassing for him, and for Ewing, who has had to endure teaching the Shrek of basketball how to be graceful on offence. Ewing knows he failed, too. The guy has been in the league for years now. A centre that can't even hook the ball is useless. Ok, he can rebound and block some, but centres like that tire out by the time they're 30 and their knees hurt. How will he contribute then?? What you'll have is a centre with above average rebounding and blocking abilities, but no scoring touch.

Two years ago Shaq was awful. He was out of shape and injured, that's the key with all centers. His numbers in Phoenix were great, some of them flirted with career highs, but with a center that big at that age - health is without a doubt the biggest concern. Also, don't get me wrong I like Shaq, but seriously, go watch those tapes, Howard was not being stopped. If Howard can get the foul trouble under control he will become near unstoppable, that's what's holding him back now. I mean seriously, look at his game, what part is lacking besides staying on the court.

jecapaga
Jul 6, 2009, 02:18 AM
If Howard can get the foul trouble under control he will become near unstoppable, that's what's holding him back now. I mean seriously, look at his game, what part is lacking besides staying on the court.

The part that is lacking in his game, I hate to say it, is everything that classic offensive bball players have. He really can't score unless he's directly under the basket. He's good defensively but like others have already said, watch him put the ball on the floor and go to make a move like a hook shot and :eek: He has little in the way to offer as an actual scorer. Which is kind of crazy because he is very athletic and one would assume you could eventually get that. Shaq is horrible away from the basket as well so this entire post doesn't mean much cause he has won multiple rings.

Chaszmyr
Jul 6, 2009, 02:21 PM
But then again, I didn't like the Shaq trade to begin with; but, keeping him around...

It's not so much that I think they should have kept Shaq, I just don't like what they got for him. As far as I know, they have no plans for the money other than to put it in the bank, and now it sounds like Ben Wallace may not be looking for a buy out after all. I don't want to see Wallace in a Suns jersey.

Badandy
Jul 6, 2009, 04:09 PM
SF - Hedo Turkoglu: Amazing player. If you watched him in the Finals, he played a Kobe type game. He showed Lamar Odem that he too can get the shooting foul. One of the best three shooters in the league with an amazing left-handed drive. Also, come-back player of the year two years ago.

Best three shooters in the league? Jason Kopono, Kyle Korver, and Damon Jones. Add Steph Curry in there in a couple months.

PF - Rashard Lewis: Once again, a great player. He's a lot like Turkoglu, but more athletic. In (I think) game three of the Finals, he completely took over and dominated the game. I believe he could do that about every game if he wanted to be a stand out player.

I really like Rashard, but he's proven he's NOT that type of player. He can step up and have a huge game, but he's not the consistent 25 ppg player the Magic thought he was when they threw over $100 million at him.


C - Dwight Howard: The best center, hands down.

No.

He completely dominates the game on both ends of the court.

You know, except the offensive end.

He was second in the league in double-doubles (some guy in NY had him beat)

David Lee.

He's also crazily athletic. Not to mention, he's getting better with age.

Let's hope so. His offensive game is atrocious. He doesn't know how to play basketball. Seriously, he is not good at the game of basketball. He's a 6 foot 11 inch guy who can jump out of the gym and is far too mobile for anyone of similar size to stay in front of him. Besides that, I have more basketball talent than he does (in my 5 foot 9 frame).

The only thing he was missing was someone he could dish the ball out to or help with a drive or two, they got him that with Vinsanity.

The only reason the Magic got where they did is because he did have players to dish out to. C'mon, you just spent 4 paragraphs naming all of them.


I think the Raptors will be huge. I know what people are thinking ---- I'm crazy. However, they were first in their division just 2 years ago (weak division, but still....), and they were probably better last year than they were 2 years ago. However, people were playing hurt, and that hurt the season. This year, the Raptors have another team that's at least as good as the team from 2 years ago, except Bargnani is now really awesome, and Turkoglu can contribute well enough.

I see we have a Raptors fan, lol. You guys are a going to be a good team, but you really shouldn't expect a Finals run. Either way, your team should see big improvement.

And with regards to Shaq: I think he's still amazing.

You'd be right. The most dominant player of all time still has it. Not 30 points 15 rebounds has it, but most of it.

Dwight Howard is completely overrated, IMO. After so many years, he hasn't developed an offensive move, and watching him take a hook-shot from further than 5 feet is dreadfully embarrassing for him

And it should be embarassing. I can spot 15 guys in the recreation center where I play that have more basketball skill than Dwight Howard has. Unfortunately for them they're not 6 foot 10, they're not massive, and they can't jump as high as Vince Carter.

Badandy
Jul 6, 2009, 04:21 PM
I'd also like to add that the NBA's Boston Celtics are going to attempt to accomplish a feat never before done in the NBA: Winning a title when more than half their team needs walkers, oxygen tubes, and Depends adult diapers.

thegoldenmackid
Jul 6, 2009, 04:23 PM
It's not so much that I think they should have kept Shaq, I just don't like what they got for him. As far as I know, they have no plans for the money other than to put it in the bank, and now it sounds like Ben Wallace may not be looking for a buy out after all. I don't want to see Wallace in a Suns jersey.

My understanding is that the Suns are aware that if they want to trade for Tyson Chandler they can do that at any point, however, I don't think they want to tie up the money for two years.

jecapaga
Jul 6, 2009, 04:40 PM
The only reason the Magic got where they did is because he did have players to dish out to. C'mon, you just spent 4 paragraphs naming all of them.

Great post and I agree with everything you've said. ^^that made me laugh as that's all the Magic can do is dish out and that's what they did all season. Unless it's an easy dunk cause Howard, for as athletic as he is, has no game...yet.

jecapaga
Jul 6, 2009, 04:42 PM
I'd also like to add that the NBA's Boston Celtics are going to attempt to accomplish a feat never before done in the NBA: Winning a title when more than half their team needs walkers, oxygen tubes, and Depends adult diapers.

True they are old but I'm not betting against them if they stay healthy. I'd also like to add what are the possibilities Ron Artest stays out of the news next Laker season?

Abstract
Jul 6, 2009, 04:46 PM
And it should be embarassing. I can spot 15 guys in the recreation center where I play that have more basketball skill than Dwight Howard has. Unfortunately for them they're not 6 foot 10, they're not massive, and they can't jump as high as Vince Carter.

He's Mutombo with more money, more hype, and less swagger.

He must be the only Dream Teamer who isn't a go-to guy when his team needs him. I know he gets into foul trouble early due to his aggressive defence, but he's not even a go-to guy in the other quarters either, where he does get minutes.


And you're right about his basketball --- he can't play it. If he wasn't so tall, he'd be ME! :p

thegoldenmackid
Jul 6, 2009, 04:46 PM
True they are old but I'm not betting against them if they stay healthy. I'd also like to add what are the possibilities Ron Artest stays out of the news next Laker season?

Umm... I mean he hasn't really gotten in much trouble lately. I'd say:
Spurs/Lakers vs. Celtics/Cavs

While I don't think that Shaq helps Cleveland that much, they got someone that can at least score consistently, which was problem numero uño last year - that small forward position for the magic is looking lonelier and lonelier.

justinhasnohops
Jul 6, 2009, 05:21 PM
Not sure why you're saying the Lakers winning the championship is overrated as they were predicted before the season started to be in the Finals. Boston hit the injuries and the Cavs got punked by Orlando. Lakers did have the most talented and deepest team. They now lose Ariza to Houston only to pick up Ron Artest. If they can manage to sign Lamar Odom and Bynum remains healthy, nobody will want to play this team.

If KG comes back strong though...Boston is obviously a very dangerous team and I wouldn't want to play them. I don't see Shaq as the answer in Cleveland but it will make for a fun few games to watch. Eastern conference finals is probably Boston vs. Cleveland and that will be bloody.

Blake Griffin. I'd actually love to see the Clippers get SOME love and not season after season of terrible luck, terrible decisions and horrible injuries. I hope Griffin does great...he looks a beast.

Only to pick up Ron Artest? He's one of the leagues best defenders in my opinion. The only problem is will he do good with Kobe Bryant?

Do Clippers still have Baron Davis?

jecapaga
Jul 6, 2009, 05:45 PM
Only to pick up Ron Artest? He's one of the leagues best defenders in my opinion. The only problem is will he do good with Kobe Bryant?

Do Clippers still have Baron Davis?

Correct, Artest is a great pickup so I'm OK with giving up Ariza I suppose. I think he'll be fine with Bryant as Kobe will have his sneaker far up his arse to keep on task.

Clippers still do have Baron Davis. Such an under performing team.

imaketouchtheme
Jul 6, 2009, 05:48 PM
I'm not going to quote the post since it was very large and I don't feel like snipping it down, but this is directed at BadAndy.

I'm mainly going to respond to the part about Dwight Howard was "atrocious" and how he's not one of the best players in the NBA. First off, you do realize we're talking about a center? A center? Center? You understand he's a center? You understand the responsibilities of a center? You understand what a center does? You understand his job on the court? Is his job to dribble down the court and have great basketball skills? No. Is his job to play down low and jump higher and be stronger than everyone else grabbing every rebound that's put up? Yes. Can Dwight Howard shoot? No. Do centers shoot? Rarely. Can Dwight Howard dribble well? No. Do centers handle the ball? Rarely. Do centers normally have 14 rebounds per game? No. Does Dwight Howard normally have 14 rebounds per game? More. Do centers normally completely stop anyone that comes down low? Not so much. Does Dwight Howard completely stop anyone that comes down low? Pretty much. Do centers normally run faster than forwards? No. Does Dwight Howard run faster than forwards? Most of them. Do centers normally take the toll Dwight Howard does down low every game? No. Does Dwight Howard take a toll like Dwight Howard does? Yes. Do centers usually have a decent guard to dish the ball out when needed? Most. Did Dwight Howard have that before the Vince Carter accusation? Not half the season.

I wrote that in that tone and format to make a point.

I cannot believe someone just said he's not the best at his position.

You will agree that Shaq was the best at his position in his prime? Does Shaq have anymore "basketball skills" than Dwight Howard, whatever that may mean.

Dwight Howard obviously gets the job done with "no basketball skills".

justinhasnohops
Jul 6, 2009, 05:49 PM
Correct, Artest is a great pickup so I'm OK with giving up Ariza I suppose. I think he'll be fine with Bryant as Kobe will have his sneaker far up his arse to keep on task.

Clippers still do have Baron Davis. Such an under performing team.

Hah, the Clippers will have a fresh start, yet again, this year.

ipodtouchy333
Jul 6, 2009, 05:51 PM
Where do you guys think Iverson will end up? I forgot about him this past year and last I heard was that he was interested in the Grizzlies!!? Ewww

justinhasnohops
Jul 6, 2009, 05:57 PM
Where do you guys think Iverson will end up? I forgot about him this past year and last I heard was that he was interested in the Grizzlies!!? Ewww

He's thinking about retiring. All I know is he didn't do good with denver or detroit.

ipodtouchy333
Jul 6, 2009, 06:04 PM
He's thinking about retiring. All I know is he didn't do good with denver or detroit.

Really? I think he has at least a little left in him. It was kind of disappointing to see that he and Carmelo couldn't take Denver farther when they made that deal, but last season was pretty bad with the injury and such. I just read that he is interested in the Heat now though...

justinhasnohops
Jul 6, 2009, 06:08 PM
he wouldn't fit in with them though.

Badandy
Jul 6, 2009, 06:21 PM
I'm not going to quote the post since it was very large and I don't feel like snipping it down, but this is directed at BadAndy.

I love responses :)

I'm mainly going to respond to the part about Dwight Howard was "atrocious" and how he's not one of the best players in the NBA.

Skill-wise, he's atrocious. Basketball skill wise, he's atrocious. He's like a more athletic Eric Dampier. The "more athletic" part is key, though.

First off, you do realize we're talking about a center? A center? Center? You understand he's a center? You understand the responsibilities of a center? You understand what a center does? You understand his job on the court? Is his job to dribble down the court and have great basketball skills?

I play basketball two hours every day, have watched basketball my entire life, and am alright myself, even if I am on the shorter side. I know basketball, and I know what centers do.

And yes, his job IS to have great basketball skills! Shaq? Incredibly good, he's not just big. Anyone who watches him and knows the game of basketball knows that his footwork is phenomenal. Some of the best footwork of all time, especially for a big man. He's slower now, yes, but you'd have to be a nut to think Shaq is just big and doesn't have any skill. That's why Shaq is/was so special. He was the most physically imposing player of all time, and he was incredibly skilled.

I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post, it only enforces my point more. He's a physical beast, no one denied that. But that's all he is, and unless he actually learns how to shoot (even a layup!), that's all he'll ever be. Pau Gasol is better, and you're in denial if you don't think so after watching the Finals.

I wrote that in that tone and format to make a point.

Congrats.

You will agree that Shaq was the best at his position in his prime? Does Shaq have anymore "basketball skills" than Dwight Howard, whatever that may mean.

Yes, far more. It's why, when the Lakers needed a basket in crunch time, they ALWAYS went to Shaq. Not Kobe, Shaq. They fed Shaq the ball. Over, and over, and over again. And you know what? He made them. Hook shots, jumpers in the lane, everything. He carried the Lakers. Watch the tapes. He has skill. Dwight has one move: Fake spin, dribble one dribble to the right, clunk a 5-foot hook shot.

justinhasnohops
Jul 6, 2009, 06:29 PM
I love responses :)

Skill-wise, he's atrocious. Basketball skill wise, he's atrocious. He's like a more athletic Eric Dampier. The "more athletic" part is key, though.

and yet he made it to the NBA? Even if he's tall he must be decent to be among the worlds greatest players? After all coming out of high school? He's not atrocious. He's a big man, he does his job and no one complains.

imaketouchtheme
Jul 6, 2009, 06:40 PM
and yet he made it to the NBA? Even if he's tall he must be decent to be among the worlds greatest players? After all coming out of high school? He's not atrocious. He's a big man, he does his job and no one complains.

I said exactly what you said, except in about three thousand words.

You can't argue he's not one of the best basketball players in the NBA.

Abstract
Jul 6, 2009, 07:15 PM
In your previous post, you said Howard was one of the best players in the league, and yet you continued to post and tell us that centres aren't supposed to have ball handling skills, shooting skills, etc. :p You certainly have high expectations.

Perhaps what you said was true regarding bad centres, or merely average centres, but how can you say he's "great", but not expect him to be able to shoot a hook-shot, a lay-up, dribble the ball even once, or make his own shot with his back towards the rim? He can't do any of these things!! As he proved throughout the playoffs, the ball will just get stripped out of his hands. Ewing has worked on his offence for years, and yet......nothing.

Howard's gift is his athleticism. He can grab rebounds and jump high to block shots because he's athletic. THAT was badandy's point, and you didn't really prove otherwise by saying that he's good at these things.

You said centres rarely shoot? No, Howard rarely shoots, and that's because he can't shoot. I'm sorry, but your expectations of the best centre in the league (your words, certainly not mine) is surprisingly low. Shaq can shoot. Hakeem was an awesome shooter. Same with David Robinson and Patrick Ewing. Yao can also shoot. Lots of great centres from the recent past, and before that, could shoot.




You will agree that Shaq was the best at his position in his prime? Does Shaq have anymore "basketball skills" than Dwight Howard, whatever that may mean.


Remember during this year's All-Star game, when Shaq and Howard were at the 3-point line, and Shaq drove the ball past Howard? How did Shaq do it? Yes, a killer cross-over that went between Howard's legs!!! Shaq went right by Howard and took it to the hole.

Even so, it's not a fair comparison. You asked about Shaq in his prime, and when he did that to poor Dwight, Shaq was well past his prime. ;)

dukebound85
Jul 6, 2009, 07:23 PM
My Nuggs!

PG: Chauncy Billups.......arguable the best point in the game. A proven winner

SG: JR Smith/Dahntay Jones.....super athletic guys

SF: 'Melo......a great player

PF: Kenyon Martin/Kleiza/ Chris birdman Andersen!....cant go wrong

C: Nene.....a beast

Dynamyk
Jul 6, 2009, 10:53 PM
Lakers are still the team to beat.

They only got better with adding Artest instead of Ariza, they have arguably two of the best perimeter defenders in the league and a solid front court and a deep bench.

thegoldenmackid
Jul 6, 2009, 10:58 PM
Lakers are still the team to beat.

They only got better with adding Artest instead of Ariza, they have arguably two of the best perimeter defenders in the league and a solid front court and a deep bench.

I really think it's wide open. It's hard to say that a healthy Boston or San Antonio wouldn't make a difference, especially give the additions to those respective clubs.

Badandy
Jul 7, 2009, 10:18 AM
and yet he made it to the NBA? Even if he's tall he must be decent to be among the worlds greatest players? After all coming out of high school? He's not atrocious. He's a big man, he does his job and no one complains.

People need to read my post again. I said his "game" is atrocious. He has absolutely no skill. What he does have is unparalelled athleticism for his size that should make him the best player of all time if he actually learned how to play basketball. But, sadly, he'll never put it together like Shaq did. He just doesn't have the skill.


My Nuggs!

I really like the Nuggetts.

But...
PG: Chauncy Billups.......arguable the best point in the game. A proven winner

That's an absolute joke. "Mr. Big Shot" hasn't hit a big shot in years. He's like those QB's in the NFL that manage the game very effectively but aren't really stars. Look at his games in these playoffs. He flat out DISAPPEARS every other one. After hitting so many clutch shots in Detroit he's made a habit of under-performing in almost every big game and missing huge shots. Don't believe me, believe the stats. 82games.com Look at clutch stats.

Forgetting Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd (yes, he's still really good), Devin Harris, and Jameer Nelson?

SG: JR Smith/Dahntay Jones.....super athletic guys

Dahntay is dirty. JR Smith is one of my favorite players in the league.

SF: 'Melo......a great player

This is all you have to say about Melo? He's so head and shoulders among everyone else on your team it's not even funny.

PF: Kenyon Martin/Kleiza/ Chris birdman Andersen!....cant go wrong

You can go wrong with Kenyon Martin. He's a good player, but not nearly the player you're paying him to be.

Dynamyk
Jul 7, 2009, 11:55 AM
I really think it's wide open. It's hard to say that a healthy Boston or San Antonio wouldn't make a difference, especially give the additions to those respective clubs.

Its going to be extremely competitive, but it doesn't make sense to me not to have the Lakers as the favorite just due to team chemistry and adding Artest for Ariza. I think Ariza would've paid off more in the future but they're playing for now and Artest is for the now.

Bynum just needs to put some serious work in the gym this summer and work on his foot work.

Badandy
Jul 7, 2009, 12:03 PM
Its going to be extremely competitive, but it doesn't make sense to me not to have the Lakers as the favorite just due to team chemistry and adding Artest for Ariza.

I think that's why someone wouldn't put the Lakers as the favorite. How's the team chemistry going to be with Kobe Bryant and a confirmed psychopath? They both like to take more than 15 shots per game, and how long can Artest stand to be outshined? I don't know.

I think Ariza would've paid off more in the future but they're playing for now and Artest is for the now.

I don't think Ariza is ever going to be a star, but I see him as being an incredible role player. I don't know why the Lakers traded for him, but as I see it they should have set themselves up for the future. Kobe is on his last legs (he'll be ineffective after two years) and then who do they have? Bynum. They think he'll be the franchise guy but he needs another person. Sure, they'll pick someone up, but Ariza could have been a great, young addition.

daimos
Jul 7, 2009, 02:04 PM
Remember during this year's All-Star game, when Shaq and Howard were at the 3-point line, and Shaq drove the ball past Howard? How did Shaq do it? Yes, a killer cross-over that went between Howard's legs!!! Shaq went right by Howard and took it to the hole.



that's not the definition of cross-over.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossover_dribble

what happened was a give-and-go. Shaq passed the ball to CP3 ,
in-between the defender's legs (Howard), then went ahead to the basket,
with CP3 passing him the ball, and Shaq, the dunk.

justinhasnohops
Jul 7, 2009, 05:52 PM
You don't get to the NBA by not knowing how to play basketball.

thegoldenmackid
Jul 7, 2009, 05:54 PM
You don't get to the NBA by not knowing how to play basketball.

No you do, you just don't do so well. Google Darko.

twoodcc
Jul 7, 2009, 06:04 PM
i really think the shaq trade isn't going to help anybody. in fact, it might hurt the cavs

justinhasnohops
Jul 7, 2009, 06:07 PM
i really think the shaq trade isn't going to help anybody. in fact, it might hurt the cavs

Who knows how he'll fit in, he's probably going to leave if they don't win a title though :rolleyes:

Badandy
Jul 7, 2009, 06:15 PM
You don't get to the NBA by not knowing how to play basketball.

Put Darko Milicic in Dwight Howard's body with Howard's same athleticism and you have one of the best players ever. I'm not joking.

justinhasnohops
Jul 7, 2009, 06:18 PM
Why are you constantly ragging on Dwight Howard?

dukebound85
Jul 7, 2009, 06:19 PM
Why are you constantly ragging on Dwight Howard?

because all he can do is dunk

he has no game outside 2ft from the rim

justinhasnohops
Jul 7, 2009, 06:21 PM
your forgetting that dunking is his job. He also gets rebounds and assists. He's a center, read in to what he has to do :cool:

dukebound85
Jul 7, 2009, 06:23 PM
your forgetting that dunking is his job. He also gets rebounds and assists. He's a center, read in to what he has to do :cool:

how about when compared to shaq, robinson, duncan, hakeem, abdul jabber, ewing, hes a little lacking in the skills department:cool:

id take camby over howard any day as my center.

justinhasnohops
Jul 7, 2009, 06:25 PM
how about when compared to shaq, robinson, duncan, kakeen, abdul jabber, ewing, hes a little lacking in the skills department:cool:


Kakeen? He's not in his prime yet? All of those people played way longer than Dwight and then people started recognizing them, Dwight's starting early.

dmr727
Jul 7, 2009, 06:27 PM
I enjoy basketball as much as the next guy, but I can't believe college football is less than two months away and we're discussing the NBA. The NBA. :p

dukebound85
Jul 7, 2009, 06:28 PM
uh no. people knew they were awesome right away

justinhasnohops
Jul 7, 2009, 06:30 PM
uh no. people knew they were awesome right away

no.. people take time to be recognized, for example Michael Jordan. Seriously Marcus Camby over Dwight Howard? Dwight Howard is a better rebounder/shot blocker than him. I'm not a huge fan of Dwight Howard but for you to say something like that is stupid.

Abstract
Jul 7, 2009, 06:31 PM
that's not the definition of cross-over.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossover_dribble

what happened was a give-and-go. Shaq passed the ball to CP3 ,
in-between the defender's legs (Howard), then went ahead to the basket,
with CP3 passing him the ball, and Shaq, the dunk.

Ah that's right. It wasn't a cross-over. I just Youtube'd it.

Still though. It does take a bit of skill for a centre, or any player, to do that against a 1st Team Defensive Player. ;)

Badandy
Jul 7, 2009, 07:09 PM
Why are you constantly ragging on Dwight Howard?

Because some of you people seem to think centers don't need to know how to make small hook shots or layups. Because some of you seem to think that centers don't need to do anything besides dunk it and get rebounds. It's pretty clear to anyone who knows basketball that Dwight Howard is not a particularly skilled basketball player. It's not like I'm espousing something that's controversial. He's just not that good in the skills department. His physical...situation, though, partially makes up for his extreme lack of talent.

I mean, you guys are proclaiming that the next Shaquille O'Neal is the one that just got roundly outplayed by Pau Gasol. Pau is a wonderful player, but do you guys have any idea how much Shaq would have murdered Pau in his prime?

EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, Pau is a perfect example. Pau is amazingly skilled. Dwight Howard is not. Pau is not that physically gifted or imposing, Dwight is. You see the difference in how they play, right? Pau has touch around the basket, he can dribble pretty well, he's a good interior passer. He can make hook shots with his left and right hands while he's off balance. He can shoot the mid-range J. Howard can't do any of those things nearly as well as Pau can. He can just run past people and dunk. It's exciting, yes, but those two players are a perfect illustration of my "Dwight Howard has no basketball skills" point.


@dmr: We're not talking about college football yet because you don't want to hear me say how amazing USC is every post in every thread on this forum...yet.

justinhasnohops
Jul 7, 2009, 08:37 PM
Dwight Howard may not have a good hook shot, but calling him atrocious? No,no,no.

dukebound85
Jul 7, 2009, 08:41 PM
no.. people take time to be recognized, for example Michael Jordan. Seriously Marcus Camby over Dwight Howard? Dwight Howard is a better rebounder/shot blocker than him. I'm not a huge fan of Dwight Howard but for you to say something like that is stupid.


Jordan actually has a developed game. Howard doesn't....not even close. He's just a freak physically

And yes, Camby over Howard for a team that doesnt revolve around a center as in the Nuggets

@Badandy: dead on

Mistah Sheep
Jul 7, 2009, 08:58 PM
I think Blake Griffin is WAY overhyped.

Here are my top rookie prospects:

1. Johnny Flynn - PG
-He's a tough, determined, hard working point guard who led his team to the Semi-finals of the Big East tournament, and to the Sweet 16.
2. Ty Lawson - PG
-Reminds me of Deron Williams, and Isiah Thomas, Oscar Robinson.
3. Taj Gibson - PF
-I saw him go 12/12 or whatever he did, against Boston College in the tournament, and he was astonishing. He reminds me of a young Kevin Garnett or Carlos Boozer.

dukebound85
Jul 7, 2009, 09:01 PM
I think Blake Griffin is WAY overhyped.

Here are my top rookie prospects:

1. Johnny Flynn - PG
-He's a tough, determined, hard working point guard who led his team to the Semi-finals of the Big East tournament, and to the Sweet 16.
2. Ty Lawson - PG
-Reminds me of Deron Williams, and Isiah Thomas, Oscar Robinson.
3. Taj Gibson - PF
-I saw him go 12/12 or whatever he did, against Boston College in the tournament, and he was astonishing. He reminds me of a young Kevin Garnett or Carlos Boozer.

How can you say Griffen is overhyped yet say Flynn, Lawson and Gibson are better? Did you actually watch OU play at all?

Being a Jayhawk fan, I have had to see 3 awesome Big 12 freshman (sophmore in griffens case) in a row tear up the country in Durant, Beasley, and Griffin.

Griffin was the most dominant out of the 3 imo

Dynamyk
Jul 7, 2009, 09:03 PM
I think that's why someone wouldn't put the Lakers as the favorite. How's the team chemistry going to be with Kobe Bryant and a confirmed psychopath? They both like to take more than 15 shots per game, and how long can Artest stand to be outshined? I don't know.

Everyone forgets that Phil Jackson is the absolute best at controlling ego's. That's his biggest strength, he's not an x's and o's coach, never has been ,he's surrounded himself with great x's and o's assistants to help him. He's a motivator and a great judge and controller of personalities. He would of never agreed to take on Artest if he didn't know what he was doing.

I think they'll co-exist fine.

I don't think Ariza is ever going to be a star, but I see him as being an incredible role player. I don't know why the Lakers traded for him, but as I see it they should have set themselves up for the future. Kobe is on his last legs (he'll be ineffective after two years) and then who do they have? Bynum. They think he'll be the franchise guy but he needs another person. Sure, they'll pick someone up, but Ariza could have been a great, young addition.

I totally agree with this. Fantastic role player. I really disagree with Kobe being ineffective after 2 years ago. The jump shot is the last thing to go, his defense and driving may suffer but he will still be a big time scorer.

dmr727
Jul 8, 2009, 12:01 AM
@dmr: We're not talking about college football yet because you don't want to hear me say how amazing USC is every post in every thread on this forum...yet.

LOL - very true man. The good news is that we've all seen this before. You guys will go on and on about how you're fielding the best team CFB has ever seen, then proceed to lose two games to teams you have no earthly business losing to. :p:p

Badandy
Jul 8, 2009, 12:31 AM
LOL - very true man. The good news is that we've all see this before. You guys will go on and on about how you're fielding the best team CFB has ever seen, then proceed to lose two games to teams you have no earthly business losing to. :p:p

But then dominate all the good teams and exceed expectations in the end by killing whoever we're playing in a BCS bowl game only to have sport-show hosts throw out the "I think USC has a good case..." line that everyone in the country hates to hear. Oh well.

Dynamyk: I know the jumpshot is the last to go but I don't like the development of his shot through his career. He's gotten a little better at picking his spots (right elbow, every time), but his percentages on jumpers are pretty low. His 3 point percentage, for all the raving about his shot, is really not that good. He has a lot of NBA games on his legs and he's getting super tired, especially near the end of the season. I see him being like Kevin Garnett in a couple years. The skill will still be there, but he'll be battling his body.

Mistah Sheep: I go to USC, so I've watched every home game Taj Gibson has played in college and I'll tell you: He's no Kevin Garnett. What he is, though, is a very solid forward with long arms, good rebounding numbers, and a surprisingly good mid-range game. He definitely won't be a star in the NBA, but another role player would be about right. I hope he succeeds and I enjoyed watching him completely dominate Tyler Hansborough two years ago in the sweet-16 only to have him foul out on completely bogus calls and have Psycho-T light us up at the end of the game...

justinhasnohops
Jul 8, 2009, 10:37 PM
Jordan actually has a developed game. Howard doesn't....not even close. He's just a freak physically

And yes, Camby over Howard for a team that doesnt revolve around a center as in the Nuggets

@Badandy: dead on

Jordan played a way different position........

Howard is good inside the paint, thats what he does.

Camby over Howard, No.

The magic have other people, including Rashard Lewis. That guy is amazing. Now Vince.

dukebound85
Jul 8, 2009, 10:40 PM
Jordan played a way different position........

Howard is good inside the paint, thats what he does.

Camby over Howard, No.

The magic have other people, including Rashard Lewis. That guy is amazing. Now Vince.

you were the one that said it took a while for Jordan to be recognized, not me.....:rolleyes:

Yea, all Howard can do is dunk. No one is denying that. He just isn't as skilled as many other centers

Lewis is good as is Carter but then again, we are just saying Howard isn't greatly skilled, just a freak of nature physically

justinhasnohops
Jul 8, 2009, 10:51 PM
you were the one that said it took a while for Jordan to be recognized, not me.....:rolleyes:

Yea, all Howard can do is dunk. No one is denying that. He just isn't as skilled as many other centers

Lewis is good as is Carter but then again, we are just saying Howard isn't greatly skilled, just a freak of nature physically


Yeah thats what I said and you said he had more of a devolped game, they played different positions.

Thats why he's the leading center in the NBA now.

He's a beast of course, but he knows how to use it. Thats why he's skilled. I know some people that are young but huge. The only thing they lack is coordination and skill. Dwight Howard doesn't need to have a mid-range game. All he needs to do is take it in. His paint is his home.

dukebound85
Jul 8, 2009, 10:53 PM
Dwight Howard doesn't need to have a mid-range game. All he needs to do is take it in. His paint is his home.

yea thats what we are saying, he doesnt have any game outside of that as many other centers do

justinhasnohops
Jul 8, 2009, 10:56 PM
yea thats what we are saying, he doesnt have any game outside of that as many other centers do

Yeah, but he's not atrocious. He's tall,huge, freakishly huge, but he knows how to use it.

jecapaga
Jul 9, 2009, 12:38 AM
Yeah, but he's not atrocious. He's tall,huge, freakishly huge, but he knows how to use it.

Dwight Howard actually isn't even good in the paint. The paint is an area beyond right under the basket and he fails unless he's able to dunk. If the opposing center has any foot skill and can keep him from gaining position when they drop the ball into him, he fails. He literally has no shot. No hook, no jumper, no fadeaway, nothing. Great shot blocker and fouler though.

thegoldenmackid
Jul 9, 2009, 12:40 AM
If the opposing center has any foot skill...

Just think about that one for a second. But I really don't see even one's that are supposedly good on their feet doing a whole lot to stop him, say Dirk, I realize he may not be a "true center." The man is 7' tall.

jecapaga
Jul 9, 2009, 12:42 AM
Just think about that one for a second. But I really don't see even one's that are supposedly good on their feet doing a whole lot to stop him, say Dirk, I realize he may not be a "true center." The man is 7' tall.

Gasol did a mighty fine job during the finals. Howard wasn't really even a side note in that series final except for what he didn't do.

thegoldenmackid
Jul 9, 2009, 12:53 AM
Gasol did a mighty fine job during the finals. Howard wasn't really even a side note in that series final except for what he didn't do.

Because he was in foul trouble. I mean the way to get Howard to stop being effective was fairly known. Drive to the hoop and shoot, yeah you are going to get blocked and embarrassed a couple of times, but he was going to be on the bench pretty quick.

My point was more towards the lack of centers that have "good feet" or at least better athleticism then Mr. Howard.

jecapaga
Jul 9, 2009, 01:05 AM
Because he was in foul trouble. I mean the way to get Howard to stop being effective was fairly known. Drive to the hoop and shoot, yeah you are going to get blocked and embarrassed a couple of times, but he was going to be on the bench pretty quick.

My point was more towards the lack of centers that have "good feet" or at least better athleticism then Mr. Howard.

Well you are correct there. Though I'm not sure if it's a lack of quality centers or if just the ones we know and love only come across once ever 20 years.

Qwertylizer
Jul 9, 2009, 05:15 AM
So what's up with the Ming's situation? I heard he's injured very bad and probably his whole career is in danger. :confused: McGrady is also out at least the half of the next season because of knee surgery. Houston isn't rocking...

thegoldenmackid
Jul 9, 2009, 12:19 PM
So what's up with the Ming's situation? I heard he's injured very bad and probably his whole career is in danger. :confused: McGrady is also out at least the half of the next season because of knee surgery. Houston isn't rocking...

Well. Today the NBA granted the request of the Rockets to give an injury exception for Yao, meaning they got the five and change million dollars needed to persuade Trevor freed up in cap room. Now this means the NBA things that Yao's injury will prevent him from returning soon, but he can still return whenever he is healthy. The truth of the matter is, no one knows. My guess is he sits out this year, the Rocket's are going to want make sure it is fully, utterly, completely healed. As to TMac, I mean, hopefully he will tell the Rockets when he plans on coming back, or if he is going to have another surgery.

opinioncircle
Jul 9, 2009, 12:31 PM
I am a big fan of The Matrix, and seems like he's out of TO to Dallas. The Mavs are going to pretty darn good. Unlike my PHX Suns...:(

Badandy
Jul 9, 2009, 12:51 PM
I am a big fan of The Matrix, and seems like he's out of TO to Dallas. The Mavs are going to pretty darn good. Unlike my PHX Suns...:(

Ya, you guys are going to be awful. The Suns are starting over. They shouldn't even re-sign Nash. Send everyone away, lose a ton of games, and get some lottery picks. Rebuild from there.

thegoldenmackid
Jul 9, 2009, 12:53 PM
Ya, you guys are going to be awful. The Suns are starting over. They shouldn't even re-sign Nash. Send everyone away, lose a ton of games, and get some lottery picks. Rebuild from there.

My Suns are notorious for drafting well (Nash, Kidd, Amaré) and trading away draft picks for money (Rondo, Deng). They are going to really try to get Nash back, I'm not sure Marion would help the Mavs that much - I mean it will help, but it definitely does not make them a championship contender and his health scares me.


But ******* Sarver and Kerr.

Badandy
Jul 9, 2009, 12:59 PM
My Suns are notorious for drafting well (Nash, Kidd, Amaré) and trading away draft picks for money (Rondo, Deng). They are going to really try to get Nash back, I'm not sure Marion would help the Mavs that much - I mean it will help, but it definitely does not make them a championship contender and his health scares me.


But ******* Sarver and Kerr.

How dare you insult one of the game's best three point shooters of all time...

/Steve Kerr (the player) fan

thegoldenmackid
Jul 9, 2009, 01:00 PM
How dare you insult one of the game's best three point shooters of all time...

/Steve Kerr (the player) fan

Yeah him and Mr. Thomas can be respected as players, the post-playing career is nothing but awful. Good luck to Isaiah at UCF (iThink that's where he is now?)