Why I am un-switching

[w00tmaster]

17 days ago I ordered what I considered to be the system of my dreams. Now I am officially through with Apple. I became a mac fan after needing a new laptop, and I figure I would give Apple a look. I fell in love with the iBook, and although I had some difficulty when I ordered it(I was overseas in Japan and accidentaly ordered 2 iBooks. I was either sleeping or at work while the phones were open, so I sent an email, ended up getting both shipped, cost me $20, but I was still happy), but after I held the iBook in my hands I became an instant fan. I even went to the Ginza store to look around and got my picture taken with a cute employee there and set it as my desktop. I evangelized how wonderful Apple is to my friends and family.
I got a job this summer doing bioinformatics progamming at my university. The iBook just wasn't going to cut it, so I decided that with what little money I have, I would splurge on a fancy new dual 1.8Ghz G5. So after I get everything in order, I sign up for the Apple developer program. I try to order, but it doesn't seem like I can use my loan. I call up Apple, and everything just went downhill from there. They told me on the phone that I couldn't use my loan at the dev store. So I had to wait till the next day to call the dev people who told me that I could, I just had to use the line where it said business loan or something along those lines. So I figure I really want to play Doom 3 when it comes out, so I should really upgrade the video card to a 9600XT, it was only $40 more, and I added a bit more ram and an airport card too. The system of my dreams. Apple gave me an estimated delivery date of July 9th. I was so excited, I went out and bought an Alchemy TV card(for the mac only), a Kensington wireless mouse, and I even rushed delivered my dvi cable so it would be here in time, the 9th came and went, no word from Apple. I go to my order status page and it seems the delivery date has been pushed back till the 26th. I need this computer for work, so at the very least an email before the 9th would have been nice to say that they were having problems and perhaps offered me a chance to change my order to a stock config or some other method of expediting my order. Nothing. So eventually I have to call them to find out what is going on. They tell me that they are having production problems and that my computer will be shipped out on the 21st at the earliest. Afraid that if the computer is delayed any further I won't be able to do my job, I call up the developer connection and ask that if I decide to cancel my order, would I be able to get my $99 back. The woman says she will have to check and will email me back with an answer. I get an email today saying that they canceled my order, something I never asked them to do in the first place.
I am 23 years old and was planning on buying a lot of Apple products in my lifetime. Not now, I will never buy another Apple product as long as I live. Apple lost a lifelong customer because of very shoddy customer service. I hope they are happy, I know I will be with my dual opteron system I put together at newegg.com!

[Danrose1977]

So you had a few delivery problems.... Boo Hoo :(

If you are going to start crying over something as small as that then the community is probably better off without you...

Goodbye :D

[yamabushi]

Sorry you had a bad experience. Being a recent switcher, you may have been unaware of the shipping delays that are common with Apple. The confusion with customer service also does not surprise me. If you need a computer right away then you could try asking what units are available for immediate shipment. You probably could have received an older refurbished model much sooner at slightly lower price and upgraded the graphics card later if neccesary. I don't mean to imply that the situation is in any way your fault - it is clearly Apple's fault. I just think we all have to accept slow deliveries as normal for Apple until they get their act together. Please feel free to give them a piece of your mind however. They usually will bend over backwards to please developers once they realize they screwed up. I understand that it is really too late but you never know, they might offer you an acceptable solution.

[arf]

OK, so you've had poor customer service and that's never good, but surely the reasons that made you buy a mac in the first place still hold? I'm sorry for you that the machine is taking a while to come but stop being such a drama queen and play with your iBook until the G5 comes....

[Balin64]

I have no sympathy for you. Okay, I'm sorry, I truly am: you are stuck using Windows (or Linux if you're lucky) for the rest of your life. I would have been a little more patient with Apple and receive a better product; besides, why are YOU buying a work machine? Tell your employer what you need and they will get it for you. I'm just a lowly graphics guy but my employer bends over backwards for me: do you know how much it would cost them if they farmed out all the work I do? That's why I get away with so much stuff at work... they love me and I love the fact they do.

It sucks they canceled your order. At least call Apple and keep getting transfered to someone higher up: they'll do that, until you reach the main customer support manager for the night: they have "magical" powers and have fixed many a situation for me in the past.

[paulypants]

WOW! You sure told Apple you mean business!
I wouldn't want to mess with you!

Hope you enjoy downloading patches and removing
spyware from your windows pc cause you are an
impatient crybaby--have fun.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[crenz]

So everyone who has problems with Apple is a crybaby, is it? That kind of attitude freaks me out.

While I love Apple's products, I don't see any reason to believe Apple is really interested in their customers. Their customer service is horrible. What makes the situation bearable here in Germany is non-Apple retailers that offer good service.

[yamabushi]

For those who don't know- Apple service outside the U.S. tends to be pretty bad at this time. Hopefully this will improve as Apple expands their international presence.

[edesignuk]

So everyone who has problems with Apple is a crybaby, is it? That kind of attitude freaks me out.

While I love Apple's products, I don't see any reason to believe Apple is really interested in their customers. Their customer service is horrible. What makes the situation bearable here in Germany is non-Apple retailers that offer good service.
Ditto. Apple have treated this guy like crap and all you zealots can do is take the piss!? WTF is wrong with all of you, this blind faith in Apple being managed by saints wares thin :rolleyes:

w00tmaster-
It's a shame that you won't be getting the G5, it woulda screemed! But I'm sure you dual opteron will kick a fair bit itself!

[arf]

Ditto. Apple have treated this guy like crap and all you zealots can do is take the piss!? WTF is wrong with all of you, this blind faith in Apple being managed by saints wairs thin :rolleyes:



I take your point but I don't think you've taken mine..... Apple customer service can suck at times as it can with any other company. All I'm saying is that it seems like a bit of a knee jerk reaction to me to suddenly decide that there's no way you'd ever want a mac just because of a bad customer service experience, it's about the hardware too right?

[edesignuk]

it's about the hardware too right?Of course it is, but if you experience with a new computer is that the company you're buying from can't even deliver the machine, can't communicate with your etc. Then why would you want to open yourself up to what you can only see as a company that don't give a ****** about their customers, and that you will have a hard time getting support from.

I'm not saying that's how it would be, but as far as w00tmaster is concerned this is his experience, and this is what he will base his decisions on. Having everyone tell him to stop moaning and grow up isn't going to help the situation at all, now he just thinks the Apple community are all a bunch of stuck up Apple loving freaks!

[iGav]

Apple, like any other company seems to have polar opposites when it comes with dealing with it's consumer base.

Occasionally they're very, very poor and other times they're the whiz-biz almost to freaky preemptive levels. But it's no different to any other company whether it be Sony, Dell, VW or BMW, poor service exists and in these situations you have to make a formal complaint to these companies. How else are they supposed to improve their levels of service unless they get consumer feedback when things do go wrong??.

I do hope that you take the time to write a thorough complaints letter to Apple (By not complaining you're in essence letting them get away with it and that would be an injustice), stating the issues encountered and the persons you dealt with and how disappointed you are. Always get peoples names when dealing with problems, that way in a company of Apple's size it's easier for them to do an internal investigation and track the specific employees down.

As for you experience, it doesn't seem serious enough to warrant such a melodramtic statement as "I will never buy another Apple product as long as I live." but each to their own of course. I've experienced much worse service from Apple than what you have had... (my problems with Apple have been well documented on this site) but I've also experienced the pinnacle of perfection as well. I'm not going to let a negative encounter tarnish what is otherwise a fantastic user experience that I have with their products on a daily basis in both my professional and personal life.

As my old boss said in an issue of CR magazine.

We love Apple, often despite our better judgement. They still display a frustratingly aloof arrogance, wrapped up in the warmth of an attractive, friendly looking package. But then as a colleague remarked only this week, the alternative, with its inherent stupidity and indifference towards real innovation, is still a far, far worse option.

I can only but agree.

Goodluck with you new machine and job though.

[iGav]

but as far as w00tmaster is concerned this is his experience, and this is what he will base his decisions on.

But it's not his only experience of Apple. He himself waxed rhapsodic and "evangelized how wonderful Apple is" and it's products and staff were.

Yet with one unfortunate encounter he's given up totally and switched platforms. :confused: That's being abit fickle really isn't it.

But if he's happy with his new machine, then that's cool. I just hope that he doesn't miss the opportunity to make the effort to complain to Apple in the hope that such service will be if not totally eradicated in the furture then atleast it'll become a more rare experience.

[edesignuk]

Yet with one unfortunate encounter he's given up totally and switched platforms. :confused: That's being abit fickle really isn't it.Very true, I think just got a bit carried away :)

[iGav]

Very true, I think just got a bit carried away :)

<begin scouse accent> calm down... calm down<end scouse accent>

heheheh.

[edesignuk]

<begin scouse accent> calm down... calm down<end scouse accent>

heheheh.
<begin east london accent>You ain't seen me right<end east london accent>

;)

[qubex]

To all of you whose opinion amounted to "Shut up, crybaby" I can say only one thing: "shut up, insensitive morons!"

Look: Apple unilaterally canceled his order! That is pretty much the worst level of disservice you can expect in any area of purchasing. What is he supposed to do, sit down and wait through the whole bloody asinine process again?! So, sure, you lot may have been willing to wait it out while the work ticks on by: he was clearly in a hurry (what is the point of even buying a dual G5 if you aren't in a hurry?!) and the continual delays, culminating in an "accidental" cancelling of his order, is pretty much the worst thing that could have happened. I suggest you all think it through.

I love my Apple computers. My girlfriend and I have acquired a grand total of five (two desktops, three laptops) in less than 18 months. I'm converting my friends and creating my own little "Apple Universe Bubble". But despite their computers being excellent, I find that as a company - especially when it comes to dealing directly with customers - Apple can be pretty damned infuriating. Worse, in fact, than IBM - my previous purveyor of PowerPC hardware. Compared to Apple, what Big Blue lacked in style it certainly makes up in customer care. (I switched because of OSX, and that is basically the only reason.)

So I have to say I understand the original poster, and he certainly has a damned good reason to be infuriated. Personally, I hope he'll reconsider his decision to never deal with Apple again because - hell - they make damned good computers and he could be missing out a lot of fun. But whatever lies in the future, at present he has nothing to show for his efforts but an iBook, a cancelled order, and (maybe?) a $99 refund. So he sure as hell has a reason to be pissed.

I hope you write them a stiff letter on a piece of cardboard. If it were me, I'd be on the 'phone demanding to speak to a manager and loudly give him a piece of his mind concerning the staff and processes he manages. The end result would probably be that you'd get yourself a letter of apology and the system delivered within the previously estimated delivery date.

However, of course, the decision is yours.

[flyfish29]

Sorry to hear you had problems, the PC world doesn't ever have any issues like this!?!? :D

anyway, what is up with ordering two iBooks by accident? Do you think any of these "delivery" problems and issues with Apple are a result of your mistake(s)? Just wondering, cause I would think it would be difficult to order two ibooks since the price would not be $1300ish but $2600. I guess if someone didn't check the final price of what they were buying it could be done. :eek:

Again, I am sorry you have given up on the world of Mac...don't cancel your macrumors membership cause if this is the way you react to a few issues then we will see you back shortly after your short lived PC experience. :rolleyes:

[mpopkin]

that really is a very small deal, but it is not Apple's loss that you are switching back to pc, it is your loss. Welcome back instability, viruses, popups spyware etc and welcome back the blue screen of death(yes you can get it on xp too) I was a switcher several years back( even though my first computer was a performa) and i have not looked back, yes apple has shipping problems, but their customer service has never ever treated me badly, so on that account i think that you need to restate that " I thought their customer service treated me rudely or something along those lines" because i have had nothing but good experiences with apple customer service even when they tell me that oops your g4 tower wont be shipping until january when you ordered it in august. with apple it is always about supply.

bad decisions are born out of anger, take a breath and think about what you are doing,


17 days ago I ordered what I considered to be the system of my dreams. Now I am officially through with Apple. I became a mac fan after needing a new laptop, and I figure I would give Apple a look. I fell in love with the iBook, and although I had some difficulty when I ordered it(I was overseas in Japan and accidentaly ordered 2 iBooks. I was either sleeping or at work while the phones were open, so I sent an email, ended up getting both shipped, cost me $20, but I was still happy), but after I held the iBook in my hands I became an instant fan. I even went to the Ginza store to look around and got my picture taken with a cute employee there and set it as my desktop. I evangelized how wonderful Apple is to my friends and family.
I got a job this summer doing bioinformatics progamming at my university. The iBook just wasn't going to cut it, so I decided that with what little money I have, I would splurge on a fancy new dual 1.8Ghz G5. So after I get everything in order, I sign up for the Apple developer program. I try to order, but it doesn't seem like I can use my loan. I call up Apple, and everything just went downhill from there. They told me on the phone that I couldn't use my loan at the dev store. So I had to wait till the next day to call the dev people who told me that I could, I just had to use the line where it said business loan or something along those lines. So I figure I really want to play Doom 3 when it comes out, so I should really upgrade the video card to a 9600XT, it was only $40 more, and I added a bit more ram and an airport card too. The system of my dreams. Apple gave me an estimated delivery date of July 9th. I was so excited, I went out and bought an Alchemy TV card(for the mac only), a Kensington wireless mouse, and I even rushed delivered my dvi cable so it would be here in time, the 9th came and went, no word from Apple. I go to my order status page and it seems the delivery date has been pushed back till the 26th. I need this computer for work, so at the very least an email before the 9th would have been nice to say that they were having problems and perhaps offered me a chance to change my order to a stock config or some other method of expediting my order. Nothing. So eventually I have to call them to find out what is going on. They tell me that they are having production problems and that my computer will be shipped out on the 21st at the earliest. Afraid that if the computer is delayed any further I won't be able to do my job, I call up the developer connection and ask that if I decide to cancel my order, would I be able to get my $99 back. The woman says she will have to check and will email me back with an answer. I get an email today saying that they canceled my order, something I never asked them to do in the first place.
I am 23 years old and was planning on buying a lot of Apple products in my lifetime. Not now, I will never buy another Apple product as long as I live. Apple lost a lifelong customer because of very shoddy customer service. I hope they are happy, I know I will be with my dual opteron system I put together at newegg.com!

[M. Johansson]

When purchasing my brothers iBook, I came to the following conclusion about Apple:

Using Apple Hardware: Like having sex with a beautiful woman.

Ordering said hardware: Like sitting down at high velocity on a cactus.

[OziMac]

Hmm. Interesting way of putting it ;)

[jsw]

Tell your employer what you need and they will get it for you. I'm just a lowly graphics guy but my employer bends over backwards for me....
To quote w00tmaster:

I got a job this summer doing bioinformatics progamming at my university.
The guys a student. Which means: (a) his employer isn't going to buy him a computer, and (b) since it was to be for a summer job, getting it late removes the original reason for getting it at all.

Yes, I know Apple's delivery dates are fiction. But he has a point - a few of them, actually.

(1) Apple can't stand by its delivery dates. Yes, they do often deliver on time, but their late deliveries are legendary.

(2) Apple customer service botched this completely. Completely.

(3) The loan info was messed up, causing some delays to him.

Basically, he wanted to join the developer program - which seems well justified by his work - and wanted a system to use for the bulk of the summer. Apple failed to deliver it. Should he boycott Apple for life? His decision. But I've never bought again from a number of companies that have screwed me over. That's not to say that I always or even usually decide to stop buying from someone - just that, if I get annoyed enough, that's my final resort. OS X rules. But Windows XP isn't bad, either. PCs aren't bad.

I think too many here get so caught up in things that they feel a personal loyalty to Apple and a need to attack anyone who wants to go elsewhere. That's just wrong, in my opinion.

I use OS X because I love it. I use Macs because they use OS X. I won't switch because I prefer OS X to XP.

But...

I don't think everyone who uses Windows is a dumb sheep. For many, it is simply a more practical decision.

I don't owe Apple any loyalty. Apple has no idea who I am. Apple is a company, not a person, and they are in this to make a profit. They don't make Macs to make me happy.

I am loyal to the Mac development community. I am loyal to certain employees of Apple that I've come to know. I am loyal to fellow Mac users.

I want Apple to succeed for one reason: I want OS X to thrive.

I've had my share of bad customer service from Apple. No more or less than I've gotten dealing with Dell for work systems. I tend more often to talk to someone I can understand easily when I call Apple, but I don't get bad info less often, nor do I get great assistance more. Apple customer service doesn't suck. It just isn't magically great, either. Some of the people really care. Some don't care at all. Just like any other large company. And most small ones. But I've had experiences with Apple customer service which certainly angered me, and, in a different situation, I could have seen deciding to make my next purchase a Wintel box instead of the G5 I bought.

Apple's hardware isn't exactly awe-inspiring. I love it. I love my G5. Love it. But... if you could buy OS X on a Wintel-type box ("real" OS X, not PearPC or whatever), a lot of people wouldn't spend the extra on Macs.

I love what I can do on my Macs, and that's why I use them. But, if Apple mucks up the next OS, or if MS or Sun or the Linux community or whomever comes out with a better OS - one I see as appreciably better for me - I'll switch in a minute.

So, for me, it's hard to see why someone would get scolded for deciding not to use a product, when there are alternatives available, and when that company's customer service department has done some a poor job of dealing with him. Why are people so loyal to Apple, a company that doesn't know them? It's like sports fans who get genuinely upset when someone roots for another team.

w00tmaster got screwed over. If his story had been about Dell or HP or Alienware, and he'd decided to buy a Mac, no one would have jumped on him. I am tired of the "Apple can do no wrong" advocates. Apple does a lot of wrong, and they do a lot of right. But they don't care personally about anyone in this forum. They care about us as a group, and only to the extent that we buy their products. This doesn't make them evil. It makes them a business.

[w00tmaster]

that really is a very small deal, but it is not Apple's loss that you are switching back to pc, it is your loss. Welcome back instability, viruses, popups spyware etc and welcome back the blue screen of death(yes you can get it on xp too) I was a switcher several years back( even though my first computer was a performa) and i have not looked back, yes apple has shipping problems, but their customer service has never ever treated me badly, so on that account i think that you need to restate that " I thought their customer service treated me rudely or something along those lines" because i have had nothing but good experiences with apple customer service even when they tell me that oops your g4 tower wont be shipping until january when you ordered it in august. with apple it is always about supply.

bad decisions are born out of anger, take a breath and think about what you are doing,

Um, last time I checked Apple was in the business of making money. I fail to see how it is not their loss. As for your other points, Gentoo has none of those problems, so I'm not sure where you are going with that.

[jsw]

When purchasing my brothers iBook, I came to the following conclusion about Apple:

Using Apple Hardware: Like having sex with a beautiful woman.

Ordering said hardware: Like sitting down at high velocity on a cactus.

Well put!

I get upset at Apple because I think a lot more people would enjoy the experience of using a Mac - and for me it is primarily software and the OS that does it, not so much the hardware - if Apple would just do a few things better. I want everyone to have a Mac (well, with the exception that there'd be viruses then, so change that to "everyone I know"). Not because I'm loyal to Apple, but because, right now, I think they've got - by far - the best OS out there, and I want people to experience it. I want Apple to make getting a Mac, and dealing with problems on it, easier or at least more predictable. That's all.

[edesignuk]

w00tmaster got screwed over. If his story had been about Dell or HP or Alienware, and he'd decided to buy a Mac, no one would have jumped on him. I am tired of the "Apple can do no wrong" advocates. Apple does a lot of wrong, and they do a lot of right. But they don't care personally about anyone in this forum. They care about us as a group, and only to the extent that we buy their products. This doesn't make them evil. It makes them a business.
JSW-
God that's good to hear, finally someone who has my kind of thinking :cool:

[w00tmaster]

I saw a refurb Rev A dual G5 1.8Ghz for $1799 and decided to jump on it. Hopefully it will ship soon, I know it says 30 days, but other people on this forum have gotten theirs relatively quickly. I would still like to lodge a complaint against Apple, does anyone know where I can do that?

Edit: I had really wanted to get a refurb G5 at this price from the getgo, but I really wanted to get a better video card, which is why I ordered a BTO new one. Had Apple been up front with me about the time it would take, I would have just went with the refurb, like I did. Apple wasted 18 days that I could have been enjoying my new computer. I'm still very mad and will hesitate to recommend anyone buy from Apple computer again.

[OziMac]

Good work dude, you will love it. Hopefully this one arrives on time and in good order, you deserve it :)

As far as the complaint goes, I guess you'd be writing a letter to the head of Apple's customer service?

[Koree]

If it was for a summer job,

And you need it fast, why didn't you get it at a store? (comp USA has a nice mac selection) and im not trying to be rude or anything, you probably have a reason. Anyway, i think you will be better off getting a mac, by using a mac this long, you should know you would be getting a better system if you got a mac. Please reconsider, I'm sure you would regret it later.

Koree

[Koree]

Sorry for that strange reply, had to go somewhere and my screen sat on the reply to thread page for, uh, while^^

[w00tmaster]

If it was for a summer job,

And you need it fast, why didn't you get it at a store? (comp USA has a nice mac selection) and im not trying to be rude or anything, you probably have a reason. Anyway, i think you will be better off getting a mac, by using a mac this long, you should know you would be getting a better system if you got a mac. Please reconsider, I'm sure you would regret it later.

Koree

Because I needed the discount, and plus I thought I was getting a good deal on the BTO options, I didn't realize it would take forever to build....

[jsw]

JSW-
God that's good to hear, finally someone who has my kind of thinking :cool:

Frightening, I know....

[edesignuk]

Frightening, I know....lol, yeah, sorry, didn't mean to scare you! :D ;)

[jsw]

I saw a refurb Rev A dual G5 1.8Ghz for $1799 and decided to jump on it.
Congrats! Hope it arrives early!

I would still like to lodge a complaint against Apple, does anyone know where I can do that?
Ironically, perhaps, the easiest way to do so is to call the same customer support number you've called and ask them the procedure for filing a complaint.

.... Apple wasted 18 days that I could have been enjoying my new computer. I'm still very mad and will hesitate to recommend anyone buy from Apple computer again.
I understand your anger. However, the majority of people don't have problems with their orders, and the Mac is such a great tool, so I hope you don't discourage people from looking into getting one.

[jeremy.king]

First off, why didn't you order your machine in May? I assume you knew this job was coming up? 3 weeks for a BTO, isn't that bad.

As for the PC community, its been more than 4 weeks since my employer ordered my T40 from IBM, and we still haven't received it.

Its not just apple, its the PC industry. If you get a product thats high in demand, expect to wait.

Just sounds like poor planning on your part.

[mpopkin]

W00tmaste my point is that i have come to expect these kind of delays from apple and i recognize that you have been ____ed by apple and on and on, but let me tell you what i am getting at, back when the g4 was announced, i was a happy puppy and was jumping for joy and what did i do, i went out and ordered a g4 500 top of the line model, it was supposed to ship september, but apple didnt tell me that "oops we are going to ship your machine in january now" and i had to call customer service about that one, when i did they were more than helpful and gave me 15% my order, i dont know why, they definetely shouldve and i am glad they did, i was in the same position as you is what i am getting at, but a bit more extreme, talk about 1 month to six months, the point is Apple has improved, the average customer is seeing less delays and better service and that your case in a unusual case, Apple does its financing through an American corporation(MBNA) i have an apple loan and etc, as you said you live out of the usa, and that would make it harder for apple to implement the loan problem, but i believe you eventually worked it out. As for why it is not their loss profit wise, Steve and Apple have shown that the individual customer is not as important as the mainstream customer that buys many machines(education, video, server) and offer these groups tremendous discounts to buy apple machines, whats more, apple has turned its focus away from the computer market more into the consumer entertainment market(ipod, airport express, new cinema displays for mac/pc) and are now catering to a larger market, they have lost focus on individuals like me or you and if i was to call apple back now because of a 6 month delay or a 1 month delay, they would say deal with it and would not have offered me that 15% off and instead say live with it and deal, they should be nicer and in this sense i am lucky, i have had a flawless customer service record(not in store but over the phone) of course i am a bit aggressive when it comes to six month delays but that is another story, it is just to say that they do not care if they lose me or you today because they are focused on the bigger picture(what that picture is i dont want to go into details, but i think that it is clear that apple is a very profitable company that is going in a whole new direction and is focusing on the easy to serve customers instead of us( who by the way are its bread and butter despite what is happening) so i agree with you there. Apple has screwed you over, but you need to make a decision that is right for you, one month is not a big deal in the apple world and because of that you should not switch, you should only switch if you think pinnacle studio or adobe premier are going to be better solutions for you, which i know that i prefer fcp 4 and dvd pro 3 over any pc based solution and love osx, but if you think this one blemish on apple's rep is big enough to switch then switch because it is the right decision for you, but know that these same problems happen in the pc world as much or more so than in the apple world


Um, last time I checked Apple was in the business of making money. I fail to see how it is not their loss. As for your other points, Gentoo has none of those problems, so I'm not sure where you are going with that.

[w00tmaster]

First off, why didn't you order your machine in May? I assume you knew this job was coming up? 3 weeks for a BTO, isn't that bad.

As for the PC community, its been more than 4 weeks since my employer ordered my T40 from IBM, and we still haven't received it.

Its not just apple, its the PC industry. If you get a product thats high in demand, expect to wait.

Just sounds like poor planning on your part.

Because I didn't have the money....
Did IBM let you know about the delay and why it was delayed? That is my biggest gripe with Apple, even on their site it says they are supposed to send you an email if your product is going to be delayed, I got nothing. I had to go check for myself to see that it was delayed. If I had the information, maybe I could have made an alternate plan and been happy. But Apple didn't give me the info. That is why I am mad.

[Ryan1524]

Apple does sometimes have shipping delay problems. especially with the latest G5s where there are production problems. i ordered my powerbook through ADC and instead of the estimated 4-6 weeks time, i got it in 2 days from order date. and it was a BTO unit no less. the status changed to Shipped in less than 24 hours. so if they can speed it up, i'm sure they will. but it does seem like their customer service messed up this time.

[slowtreme]

would have been nice to say that they were having problems and perhaps offered me a chance to change my order to a stock config or some other method of expediting my order.Word to the unwise, Always order the stock config, or buy from a shop that can to the upgrades the same day.

Until the day Apple gets on board and starts to attack the PC market at price and performance (not just cool factor), they will never compete well in the custom configure department.

[caveman_uk]

When purchasing my brothers iBook, I came to the following conclusion about Apple:

Using Apple Hardware: Like having sex with a beautiful woman.

Ordering said hardware: Like sitting down at high velocity on a cactus.
You seem to have pretty much summarised my experience with Apple. Thank God their products are fantastic because their customer service isn't...

As to w00tmaster - sorry to hear that you've been messed around. People have cancelled orders for less. Just don't attribute to malice what can just as easily be down to incompetance. My guess is that your order got cancelled through Chinese whispers. It went from 'This guy wants to know what happens if he cancels...' to 'This guy wants to cancel...'

Still sucks though. Can't you go to a store and buy a mac and get it the same day?

EDIT: Just read what you said above...you wanted the dev discount.

[matthew24]

What happened to you, happened to me twice. Apple does many times have delivery problems especially with BTO/Europa/outside-US, so you do have a point. At least they should keep their customers better informed.

But I have been walking on clouds after I received my first Apple ( Powermac G4/800 in 2002 ). It certainly was worth the wait. I hope you forgive them and that one day you will be a very happy Mac-user, otherwise I will not envy you with your Wintel-thing. You could start communicating with them again, I am sure that after you have shared your experience with them, Apple will be eager to show that they can do a better job.

[fistful]

w00tmaster, I can see why you are peeved at Apple but what happens when you have a similar problems with customer service in the pc world? you going to forget about using computers all together?

it would make more sense to me if you are in a hurry you're better off to purchase a system from a retail store. I found it can pretty easy to miscommunicate with a sales representative over the phone. I just think you may have a totally different experience this way.

[Steven1621]

i had a rather similar expirence with apple customer service, so i can understand where you are coming from. i don't blame you in the least bit for the feelings you had. at the same time, however, the OS X expirence and the quality of the mac hardware has proved to be a far outlasting feeling over the trouble i had with customer service.

[flyfish29]

I just think we all have to accept slow deliveries as normal for Apple until they get their act together. Please feel free to give them a piece of your mind however. They usually will bend over backwards to please developers once they realize they screwed up. I understand that it is really too late but you never know, they might offer you an acceptable solution.

I guess Apple could have shipped you a defective machine or one that is missing parts. :D I agree that apple should have notified you, etc. etc. but this IS the direction customer service is headed for most all companies in one was or another.

[nyprospect]

Sorry to hear about your orders being canceled.Ive owned a compaq and delt with their customer service.then i had a dell both with win98 on them.I paid my dues when it came to computer hell.I havent switched yet.But im close.I can understand you swearing off any kind of computer whether it be mac or windows just because the company messes up.It happends.Human error.I hope you have better luck with newegg and your pc.

[Soire]

I ordered a 2.5 G5 two days after release, and wanted to add on an aluminum display and iPod to the order. After emailing and checking with the student developer program, it is possible to add on to an order as long as it hasn't shipped.

Now after WWDC I ordered a 20" and a 40 gig iPod. The thing is, as you may have noticed, they raised their developer prices. I called up to inquire and the low level sales guy was real nice, and he said it sucked, and that I should contact the developer program. So I wrote an email asking what was up with the price increase, and that I had invested almost $5000 in their products, etc.

Now within 30 minutes of sending that email I received a call on my cell phone! On the other end was a lady from the developer program who was EXTREMELY hostile. She started asking questions about why they should make good on the second order, how it's their products and they can do whatever they want in pricing. I tried to be nice, and explained that I had already inquired about adding on to an order and that other apple employess said it was ok. She wasn't expecting that I had actually contacted them, and was a little off guard. So she then threatened to cancel my order! I was angry at the way she was treating me. Now I realize that agreeing to terms as a developer means that you have to follow the rules, but all I was doing was asking why they had jacked up the prices. Had I ordered my iPod 24 hours earlier it would have been $50 cheaper! So i wanted to know why, and she comes out threatening me. I was pissed off at the level of treatment.

Now all this is in the past, and if they ACTUALLY SHIP my G5 soon, all will be forgiven and right in my Apple world. :mad:

[pnx8x]

you had problems ordering and you are never going to buy anything from apple for the rest of your life?!?!?!

is this a normal thing in your life, where do you buy anything?
What happens when a store runs out of stock on your laundry detergent or favorite flavor of juice? do you stop shopping there too???

or is it just when it has to do with your job, i know that every delivery company i have ever dealt with has messed up delivering my packages on time. (at one time or another) maybe I should just ship every package personally now...

[m.r.m.]

when you buy a top notch amd at the moment, be sure not to go for socket 940 (opteron). go for socket 939. socket 939 has more of a future. the development tree for the socket 940's isn't going to be extended much further.

and don't mind the apple fanboys. they are well known for their fanatical devotion of apple. :rolleyes:

[w00tmaster]

you had problems ordering and you are never going to buy anything from apple for the rest of your life?!?!?!

is this a normal thing in your life, where do you buy anything?
What happens when a store runs out of stock on your laundry detergent or favorite flavor of juice? do you stop shopping there too???

or is it just when it has to do with your job, i know that every delivery company i have ever dealt with has messed up delivering my packages on time. (at one time or another) maybe I should just ship every package personally now...

The difference is the amount of money I pay to get my groceries and the amount of money I paid for Apple "quality"... Isn't the motto here you pay for quality? Well, to me quality includes everything from the order, to the shipping process, to after the sale. And frankly, Apple has nailed the last one, but in my opinion, fail badly at the first two. I shop at a discount store, if they don't have what I want, I simply buy another brand. That simple. If I wanted to ensure that my favorite brands and whatnot are stocked, I will go to a more expensive store. A store where I pay for quality. Same thing with Apple. Since I did pay a decent amount of money, I expected quality from the time I placed my order till 1 year or 3 years(depending on whether or not I get applecare) after the sale. I didn't get that, and I paid for it. That is why I am upset.
And I have never had UPS or Fedex manage to get something delayed 18 days...

[konaforever]

I had a bad experience eating chicken once. I'm never eating it again.

[m.r.m.]

I had a bad experience eating chicken once. I'm never eating it again.

belittling w00tmaster directly or indirectly is really quite tiresome. obviously, he was/is simply angry and wants to voice it. he gives some good reasons. why not agree that they are valid, instead of getting hung up on the "never" issue?

i'm a mac user myself, but i find some of you extremely obnoxious when it comes to discussing your favourite computers! :rolleyes:

[5300cs]

I suppose you need to take the good with the bad. I've had both kinds of experiences with Apple. It's somewhat of an emotional roller coaster ride at times.

I had an Apple Pro mouse that died on me right after the warantee expired, my TiBooks paint chipped away & the AC adapter cable frayed. I also sent in an old Wallstreet to get the display hinges repaired and it took 3 weeks! :mad:

On the other hand, I sent off my iBook to get the logic board replaced: the shipping company came on a Saturday evening at 6, and it was ready by Monday night. I bought a 1.6Hgz G5 and the store gave me a nice G5 t-shirt. Also the user experience usually makes up for any blunders on Apples part :)

Yeah it sucks that Apple dropped the ball on your order, but I hope it doesn't forever tarnish your opinion of them. I hope after using your G5 everyone will get to say "I told you so"

Enjoy it!

[w00tmaster]

Well, my refurb Rev A dual 1.8 shipped today. I should have ordered this to begin with. All this fuss because Apple's default video card sucks. Maybe if I count my pennies I can get a better one when Doom 3 comes out. I am still going to file a complaint on Monday so nobody else has to go through this bs like I did.

[zakee00]

damn u wootmaster, lol i want that dual 1.8 sooo bad for D3...i should sell my pb on ebay :D
btw, dont listen to the smellypants people that badmouth u just cuz ur really p-oed. i have gotten mad at apple a lot too, this is the 3rd time i need to send my pb in for repair in 6 months!!!!
have fun with your machine, and doom III :D,
Nick

[Mechcozmo]

Sorry that you gave up on Apple computers. I built a WinTel to help me with some Windows-Only homework (Virtual PC is rather sluggish on my three-year-old iMac). I need to run virus software every week, check for spyware eveyr week, or sooner if I open up Internet Explorer. IE IS HORROR!!!! GAPING HOLES!!!! GAH!!!! Thankfully, Mozilla helps a tad bit. Now, at least I don't have to worry about "an attacker gaining control of your computer." Thank you, Microsoft. :p

Unfortuanatly, it is true that you were treated like a dead, rabid, rat. So, call Apple up and give em an earfull! Talk to them about how your troubles, and I'd bet you could get that G5 overnighted.

[Kenny Pollock]

Sounds similar to my story..

Last year I really wanted an iPod, and Apple was shipping it to me, due 3 days from when I purchased it to ship. 3 days came, no word. Order status: 2 more week wait. I was pissed, but I waited two more weeks. 2 weeks came, 1 more week. I was furious. Cancelled the order, bought it from Amazon, got it same week.. That's why it's better to order from a reseller.

If I hadn't used my developer discount on the Dual 2.5GHz I just saved $700 on, I would've bought it from a reseller.

[Macs R Us]

What, PC's only... :mad: Macs will serve you best! :) ... Hope you change your mind.

[plus_c]

Well, to me quality includes everything from the order, to the shipping process, to after the sale. And frankly, Apple has nailed the last one, but in my opinion, fail badly at the first two. I shop at a discount store, if they don't have what I want, I simply buy another brand. That simple. If I wanted to ensure that my favorite brands and whatnot are stocked, I will go to a more expensive store. A store where I pay for quality. Same thing with Apple. Since I did pay a decent amount of money, I expected quality from the time I placed my order till 1 year or 3 years(depending on whether or not I get applecare) after the sale. I didn't get that, and I paid for it. That is why I am upset.

You've nailed it on this point. Over the last two years, I worked at a campus computer store that happened to be one of the largest on the East Coast. I've dealt with some VERY irate Apple customers, thanks to shipping delays of all sorts. Apple's got the most incredible products, but they've really got to get their logistics act together. For a company of Apple's size - and even though their relative size compared to Dell, et. al. are tiny, Apple still produces in large volumes - to have such problems with delivery is unacceptable.

[ozone]

I'm really kind of surprised by all the people belittling wOOtmaster's complaint.
I recently bought a Mac for our personal use at home and was told that it would qualify for a warranty despite being an older model (unsold demo). I checked three times with the reseller prior to purchasing: the reseller even indicated they contacted Apple. Paid, got the paperwork, and was called by the reseller that I should fax in my purchase information. Sure enough, I get a curt email from Apple two days later saying my request was denied. I was very upset: the whole point of buying it was so that it would qualify for a warranty. As it turns out, there was some miscommunication and that additional paperwork had to be sent in by the reseller Human error? Sure. However, when you as the customer make a point to check several times to make sure there will be no problems, this is the last thing you expect or deserve.

Buying any good includes the whole retail experience. It's up to wOOtmaster to decide whether to continue with Apple and in this case, it looks like the tradeoffs are still in Apple's favour. Where I work, I am in a position to influence the buying habits of quite a few people, and more than once, co-workers have bought IT equipment based on my recommendation, and personal experiences heavily influence professional and corporate decisions. Lousy customer service does not translate to larger market share.

[zv470]

I don't believe that the University required you to buy a dual G5 in-order for you to work for them. :rolleyes: I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Apple, you were probably dealing with students Apple had hired for some summer work. A bit of patience and good communication goes a long way.

edit: Maybe you should get a job at a call-center this summer instead, see what life is like on the other end of the phone. No sympathy. I'm sure you weren't looking for it either when you posted.

[solvs]

I'm not going to belittle you for being mad, but posting a complaint like that on a forum like this is just begging to get a flame war going. I think the part that got everyone riled up was where you said you're never going to buy another Mac again and build a PC. Now Newegg is great and all (most of the time, we all have horror stories), but a response like that isn't going to win you any sympathy on a board filled with people waiting for G5 iMacs (any day now Apple). :p

The good thing about ordering from someplace like Dell is that if you don't like it, you can go buy from Compaq or (shudder) Gateway, or build one yourself like you were going to. Problem being, they are all Windows. Even that Gentoo Opteron could have problems with it. Linux comes with it's own issues. But if you want OS X, you buy a Mac from Apple. That's why I like resellers, but I guess that wouldn't work for you, wanting the Dev discount (or student discount).

That being said, I'm sorry you had such a bad experiance. Don't be afraid to call and complain. You might get something nice for being screwed over. ;)

[w00tmaster]

I don't believe that the University required you to buy a dual G5 in-order for you to work for them. :rolleyes: I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Apple, you were probably dealing with students Apple had hired for some summer work. A bit of patience and good communication goes a long way.

edit: Maybe you should get a job at a call-center this summer instead, see what life is like on the other end of the phone. No sympathy. I'm sure you weren't looking for it either when you posted.
I worked at McDonald's, I know what life is like in a customer service job. Even at McDonald's though(at least the one I worked at), we always explained to the customer why there was a delay, and if we royally screwed up, we would always try to compensate the customer for our screw up, either a coupon for a free meal next time they come in or a free pie or something. The managers would always be the ones who did this.
If McDonald's can do customer service right, I don't see why Apple can't.

[iGav]

If McDonald's can do customer service right, I don't see why Apple can't.

But not all McDonalds are like that... ;) And this is where the problems lies.

Does one blame the entire McDonalds corporation for the attitude of one spotty 16 year old when one visits the 'Drive-Thru'??

I'm glad to hear that you're complaining, after all my run in's with Apple, I make a note of firing off a well constructed, polite but firm letter in the hope that it'll contribute to an improvement in Apple's overall service. It's certainly a bitter pill to swallow after spending umpteen thousand on their products only to have to deal with the odd person who doesn't have a f**kin' clue.

[zv470]

I worked at McDonald's, I know what life is like in a customer service job. Even at McDonald's though(at least the one I worked at), we always explained to the customer why there was a delay, and if we royally screwed up, we would always try to compensate the customer for our screw up, either a coupon for a free meal next time they come in or a free pie or something. The managers would always be the ones who did this.
If McDonald's can do customer service right, I don't see why Apple can't.

Yeah true. I guess it's a training issue. Every call-center has its newbies, maybe he was unlucky to talk to some of those? I worked in a call-center a few years ago, and remember the huge amount of material you had to remember, and the pressure to handle as many calls as possible. Was a stressful time, but a valuable experience :)

[MrSugar]

Hey man, sorry to hear you had so much trouble. I have heard so many good and bad claims with apple's sales team and customer support... but trust me once you are on the new G5 you wont be sad.

If it helps, I ordered a Dual 2 refurb a while ago, it came in about a week. Here's to hoping you get yours soon too. :)

[Cohiba]

I understand your frustration! I also am a recent "convert". I bought a brand new G5 1.8, when I got home and took it out of the box it was DOA!! You can imagine my disappointment, I returned it the next day and got a new rig that works... fantastically! I am so glad that I made the switch to Apple! You really need to reconsider your decision, for if you do, you can only deduct that Mac is the way to go!

[paxtonandrew]

I understand your frustration! I also am a recent "convert". I bought a brand new G5 1.8, when I got home and took it out of the box it was DOA!! You can imagine my disappointment, I returned it the next day and got a new rig that works... fantastically! I am so glad that I made the switch to Apple! You really need to reconsider your decision, for if you do, you can only deduct that Mac is the way to go!

w00tmaster did purchase a new computer.

It shipped


Well, my refurb Rev A dual 1.8 shipped today. I should have ordered this to begin with. All this fuss because Apple's default video card sucks. Maybe if I count my pennies I can get a better one when Doom 3 comes out. I am still going to file a complaint on Monday so nobody else has to go through this bs like I did.

I am not here to be-little anybody, or to try to defend anybody, but what happened to w00tmaster is UNACCEPTABLE. We all may think that the sun shines out of Apple, but we need to remember that there are real people out there and they DO have problems with companies. I do hope your new computer is what you expect it to be, and remember to take out Apple care, as there may be problems with the computer.

Good-luck, and keep us posted on the whereabouts and your first impressions of your new computer.

Paxton

[konaforever]

I'm belittling him because he's proverbially biting of his nose to spite his face.

Sure Apple messed up. But saying you're never going to get another Apple again after this experience is just overreacting.

He can complain all he wants to this forum. That doesn't stop me from giving my opinion on his complaint and response.


belittling w00tmaster directly or indirectly is really quite tiresome. obviously, he was/is simply angry and wants to voice it. he gives some good reasons. why not agree that they are valid, instead of getting hung up on the "never" issue?

i'm a mac user myself, but i find some of you extremely obnoxious when it comes to discussing your favourite computers! :rolleyes:

[Don't panic]

17 days ago I ordered what I considered to be the system of my dreams. Now I am officially through with Apple.
...
I am 23 years old and was planning on buying a lot of Apple products in my lifetime. Not now, I will never buy another Apple product as long as I live.

Apple lost a lifelong customer because of very shoddy customer service.
...
I saw a refurb Rev A dual G5 1.8Ghz for $1799 and decided to jump on it.
...
Well, my refurb Rev A dual 1.8 shipped today. I should have ordered this to begin with
...

Wow! You surely can stick to you guns! :D :D

just teasing, I am glad you un-un-switched, and i hope you get some justice from Apple.
Make sure you do file a complaint, so they can slowly learn to treat us properly.

Oh, and I would also try to throw around those life-long commitments with a tad more attention ;)

(for example, you could use your new beast to fold for macrumors team)

[the_wallcrawler]

Yeah true. I guess it's a training issue. Every call-center has its newbies, maybe he was unlucky to talk to some of those? I worked in a call-center a few years ago, and remember the huge amount of material you had to remember, and the pressure to handle as many calls as possible. Was a stressful time, but a valuable experience :)

I totally agree with you. I spent some time in customer service rep hell and it may have been the worst 6 months of my life. I can almost guarantee that it was a screw up by the call center rep. At the company I worked for the communication was very poor with management, but any rational person when confronted with a question or situation they couldnt properly handle would seek some help. Unfortunately there were many (ie 95%) at this company who wouldn't. This is probably what happened. Next time you have a customer service issue, continually ask for a manager until you find one who as someone put it earlier, can work some "magic". The reps who could actually provide some help may feel slighted, but believe me, it will only be for one second. Literally. Then they get the next call with someone yelling at them.

Make your voice heard. Enjoy your new computer. Move on.

[Les Kern]

Apple have treated this guy like crap and all you zealots can do is take the piss!? WTF is wrong with all of you, this blind faith in Apple being managed by saints wares thin

While it pains me to see anyone have ANY problems with any purchase, what the poster described just doesn't constitute enough "evidence" to "never buy Apple again". While some of the replies were brutal, there is a ring of truth to them, and the truth hurts.
Look at it this way: You order a car and the dealer promises delivery in a week. Three weeks go by, you cancel the order, then all of the sudden you proclaim that you'll never buy that model again. It was the DEALER not the CAR dumbass! I think the folks here realize that there is another Apple-basher with all the wrong and untrue reasons.
Frankly I don't care that the poster is switching back, and I find it somewhat funny. We'll see who laughs last... some new Bagel variants are coming!