Mac Pro 2010 speculations

[peejack]

Hi guys,

I know this has been discussed to death, but I am looking to get a new Mac Pro and don't really want to buy as yet because of the imminent refresh.

Could someone please supply the latest rumour info of as to when these are likely to be updated.

Also will the new Mac Pro be likely to be a major leap in performance compared to the current one? and what about the price? are they likely to go up?

Many thanks.

[Cindori]

june. upgrade most likely brings 6core CPU and new ATI GPU. will probably be expensive.

[peejack]

Thanks, I think I will go for one now.

Does anyone know if the new mac pros come with a display port adapter? and what display connectors are on the back?

[Cindori]

depends on what graphics card you get ofc.

[Umbongo]

While there are a lot of things they can do in regard to options, performance and price. If you are looking at a base model then it'll probably be just a minor speed bump. 2.66GHz quad to 2.8GHz quad and 2.26GHz 8 core to 2.4GHz 8 core, newer graphics card of a similar level and still the same amount of memory. The best thing would be to get a base model refurb and then wait on any upgrades if you can.

[RubbishBBspeed]

I've easily been waiting six months to purchase a Mac Pro, stupidly back in November I took the advice of the Apple store and decided to hold out for the anticipated Gulftown 12 core MP. Which they expected in January 2010.

Personally I want a system capable of producing in-house company promotion movies, mainly instruction and how to clips. This would mean not only a completely new approach for industry sector but also eliminate the need for third party suppliers (whom have on several occasions produced very good content but still not exactly what was wanted) and always at considerable cost.

Reading on here there's mention of both Gulftown and Sandy Bridge. And also mention of 27" LED screens and Ati 5xxx graphics cards etc all adding to the "oh shall I wait"

But worryingly there's also suggestions that Apple could be giving up on the Mac Pro market. Talk of problems with screens, concerns they are falling off the pace of cutting edge tech, bad relations with suppliers. Does this mean Apple are leaning towards concentrating on the main stream.

Personal; if there's a price drop I'd still today go ahead and buy the 16Gb 8 core MP with two 30' screens. Even if the 6 and 12 where released next month they would be more expensive than a late model 8 Core. And screens will always find a home. Although I can't believe there isn't more talk about Apple making a 3D compatible screen for a replacement to the 30"ACD

For what I want the 8 core is more than good enough. and as stated, on this occasion i wish impulse had forced me to buy there and then at least I'd have had my 8 core for nearly six months.

[bearcatrp]

will probably be expensive.

Not really. Just have to give up a kidney or other body part. :eek:
My guess is 4 grand for a single 6 core.

[alphaod]

Not really. Just have to give up a kidney or other body part. :eek:
My guess is 4 grand for a single 6 core.

Seeing the price of the single hexacore part is about the same as the current quads it probably will be at the same price points.

[peejack]

depends on what graphics card you get ofc.

I have got the standard graphic card that comes with the 2.66 quad.

[Gonk42]

Seeing the price of the single hexacore part is about the same as the current quads it probably will be at the same price points.

I'd second that.

The six core chips are drop-in replacements for the four core chips and what Dell, for example, has done with their workstation line is just replace the old chips with the new ones and otherwise everything else remains the same. I suspect Apple might just do the same and keep the prices the same in the US (whilst fixing them at what ever the exchange rate is plus some for the UK and other overseas markets).

[Mackilroy]

The 2010 Mac Pro will have a single-core AMD processor running at 1 GHz, with 256 MB of RAM, a GMA X3100, and 27 GB of HDD space. :D

[tekboi]

I don't think it will be june before it is released. IT will probably be at the end of april or may. The iphone announcement will be in june and I doubt they are going to drop a new mac pro at the same time.

Either that, or they'll just drop the pro line altogether

[xgman]

I'd second that.

The six core chips are drop-in replacements for the four core chips and what Dell, for example, has done with their workstation line is just replace the old chips with the new ones and otherwise everything else remains the same. I suspect Apple might just do the same and keep the prices the same in the US (whilst fixing them at what ever the exchange rate is plus some for the UK and other overseas markets).

wholesale price list 2010 xeons

[CCK]

I have got the standard graphic card that comes with the 2.66 quad.

It's got a Mini display port & a dual link DVI.
Will get a 2.93 quad tomorrow and ordered a MDP>VGA (second monitor that's just for bins, effect window etc.) for $19 at OWC. They have MDP>DVI (also cheep) but the MDP>Dual Link DVI runs about $100, so no an adapter is not listed in the box contents.

Note... I told them I'd been waiting for the new MP since December & she gave me $50 off. Worth a try to get a little bit of a discount.

the "oh shall I wait"

But worryingly there's also suggestions that Apple could be giving up on the Mac Pro market. Talk of problems with screens, concerns they are falling off the pace of cutting edge tech, bad relations with suppliers. Does this mean Apple are leaning towards concentrating on the main stream.

Personal; if there's a price drop I'd still today go ahead and buy the 16Gb 8 core MP with two 30' screens. Even if the 6 and 12 where released next month they would be more expensive than a late model 8 Core. And screens will always find a home. Although I can't believe there isn't more talk about Apple making a 3D compatible screen for a replacement to the 30"ACD

For what I want the 8 core is more than good enough. and as stated, on this occasion i wish impulse had forced me to buy there and then at least I'd have had my 8 core for nearly six months.

Though some might disagree, I wouldn't count on Apple getting out of the pro market any time soon.

I'd say if you need it, get it, as I said earlier, I've been waiting since December. If you can wait 2-9 weeks, then wait. Either way, order on a Tuesday, that'll give you 2 Tuesdays (14 days from the date it's shipped) to see if they come out with a new machine & if so you can return it.

[Dr.Pants]

is it June when Intel releases more hexacores? I'm guessing Apple won't use any new parts until they can have a hexacore single CPU lineup.

[rajbonham]

Hey all, I'm new here, but I'm ready to purchase a Mac Pro, so I've been following the news of Apple developments for the last couple of weeks. Here's my take on the new Mac Pro's.

This weekend the iPad is being released, so obviously all the buzz is around that right now. It wouldn't make sense for Apple to release an update to the Mac Pro lineup right at this moment, so they haven't.

Others are saying the Mac Pro update will happen in June. I honestly don't think so for two reasons. It would appear that WWDC is going to be in late June or early July. It would make sense for the new iPhone OS, etc. to be announced around then, so all the buzz will involve that device. I doubt Apple will steal the thunder from the iPhone with a new Mac Pro.

The second reason involves the Macbook Pro updates. From what I have seen, these are extremely popular with people my age (college students). So, obviously it would make sense for Apple to update these in late May or early June, right when most high school students graduate and start planning for college. So, if you ask me, that pretty much rules out half of May and all of June for a Mac Pro update.

I really see the Mac Pro update happening in April, probably around the second Tuesday of the month, April 12th. First, because the Mac Pro appears to be mostly used by creative professionals. Right around that date is when many events are happening (NAB and associated announcements, etc.) Now, regardless of if Apple has any presence at that event or not, a lot of creative professionals are paying attention to new products during the second week of April. All of this attention would seem like the perfect time to "show off" the updated Mac Pro.

In addition, let's face it, the Mac Pro is REALLY overdue for update.

Days Since Update: 394 (Avg = 236)

Having an update in one or two weeks, right after the iPad buzz dies down, makes much more sense than releasing a new machine in 2-3 months, when it is fighting for attention along with a new Macbook Pro and iPhone updates.

Anyway, this is all just my opinion, and perhaps, myself just really hoping they release the new Mac Pros already! :)

[CCK]

My vote is that they are trying to get it right this time, rather than just drop in a CPU & GPU & call it an upgrade.

[Mhkobe]

The Mac Pro has simply been a box with powerful CPUs etc. for the last few years, the only major innovation going on is the increasingly organized case; and this doesn't even seem to be useful due to the lack of GPU options you can really only add more RAM (you can change the CPU/s, however, you can only buy one with a faster clock for each of the sockets, if you bought a quad/six, you can't update to 8/12). I really hope that apple is trying to innovate something on this machine in order to set it a pace ahead of other powerful boxes. Currently the only thing it has going for it over a windows machine is OSX. also, the windows thing instead of apple is funny, april fools...(:apple:)

[Altimeter88]

If they stick with a single cpu/dual cpu model I would like to see:

Single CPU model:
-$1500 entry price
-motherboard based on Intel X58 CH10R chipset LGA 1366 socket
-Intel i7 2.8 quad core (upgarde option to 6-core 980X for a price)
-normal DDR3 memory (no ECC etc.)
-Latest graphics cards


Dual Core Model:
Obviously more expensive, would have to be server/Xeon based supporting new 6-core Xeons.
-Latest graphics cards

It would also be nice to see suppport for SATA 6, Blu-Ray, 2.5 SSD trays in addition to the normal 3.5" sleds.
I don't think I would change the case design much at all, I have the 2006 intel model, love it and it is still running strong.

[Umbongo]

is it June when Intel releases more hexacores? I'm guessing Apple won't use any new parts until they can have a hexacore single CPU lineup.

The mid range ($562 @ 3.2GHz) part is coming in Q3 which is July - September and likely closer Q4. The $284 part is next year probably.

[Umbongo]

If they stick with a single cpu/dual cpu model I would like to see:

Single CPU model:
-$1500 entry price
-motherboard based on Intel X58 CH10R chipset LGA 1366 socket
-Intel i7 2.8 quad core (upgarde option to 6-core 980X for a price)
-normal DDR3 memory (no ECC etc.)
-Latest graphics cards



You can use non-ECC memory if you like and the use of Xeons and ECC memory doesn't increase the price to the consumer. The price would be nice, but I doubt they will under cut the iMac with the Mac Pros.

[xgman]

I doubt Apple will steal the thunder from the iPhone with a new Mac Pro.


I really don't see any scenario where that could happen. No relation whatsoever.

In any case, people are making all sorts of guesses about when/why etc, like Apple is secretly waiting :rolleyes: for the exact right time to release the MP's, but from what I can gather, it is simply a matter of hardware availability, prototype testing, assembly and then the final announcement, and that's it. Once that is done, I don't see Apple holding back at all. The very next Tuesday it will then hit. There really is no mystery behind it. When it is done, it will be out.

[Gonk42]

In any case, people are making all sorts of guesses about when/why etc, like Apple is secretly waiting :rolleyes: for the exact right time to release the MP's, but from what I can gather, it is simply a matter of hardware availability, prototype testing, assembly and then the final announcement, and that's it. Once that is done, I don't see Apple holding back at all. The very next Tuesday it will then hit. There really is no mystery behind it. When it is done, it will be out.

I think the speculation arises because Apple had the choice of simply updating the cpus (like Dell and others) which would require a small change in firmware so could have been done very quickly. This hasn't happened, which leads people to assume that a much more major update is going to happen.

It may, as you say, just be down to chip availability. In which case, if the upgrade is just a change from 4 to 6 cores per processor, there will be an interesting flurry of threads from disgruntled people who are expecting a lot more.

[xgman]

I'm expecting a modest list of upgraded items and I'm not expecting usb 3 yet, but from what I can tell, the performance boost will be the primary reason for this update.

[Icaras]

I'm expecting a modest list of upgraded items and I'm not expecting usb 3 yet, but from what I can tell, the performance boost will be the primary reason for this update.

Gosh darnit, just give me a blu-ray CTO.

[RubbishBBspeed]

Oh forgotten about USB 3, good point.

Since replying to this thread it's opened up the torment of do I don't I.

It seems the 8 core 16Gb is well up to the job of what I and it would seem most other people need. While the 12 core would be the most up to date and powerful (let alone major brag value) is there any real world advantage a 12 core would give over the 8. It's more waiting for the replacement to the 30' screen which is making me wait.

In terms of spec-ing up a machine knowing that it will be upgraded over time on the Apple uk website an 8 core 2.26Ghz 16Gb 640 1st drive, 1Tb 2nd drive & 24"led is £3,857.01 (musn't forget the penny) inc 17.5% tax.

When the next large screen ACD arrives then two could be ordered and the 24' moved over for use with a Macbook.

But to the point. At £3,857 I can't see a 6 core being that much cheaper and as for a 12, well one can only imagine but would £3,500 for basic machine alone be a reasonable guestimate for price starting point?

[Altimeter88]

You can use non-ECC memory if you like and the use of Xeons and ECC memory doesn't increase the price to the consumer. The price would be nice, but I doubt they will under cut the iMac with the Mac Pros.

Well I think some Mac Pro users are frustrated that they can purchase a cheaper i7 iMac that comes with an awesome 27" display that outperforms the Mac Pro in most applications. Granted, it doesn't have the expandiblity that the current Mac Pro has but consider the following:

Using a non-xeon X58 setup for the new single CPU/Entry model Mac Pro would drop the overall price quite a bit. The new i7 930 quad-core retails at about $280 compared to the equivilant quad-core Xeon which runs over $1200 and offers no real-world benefit. Doing this for the entry model would still allow an upgrade option of the i980x 6-core during checkout at the apple store.

There is no reason to price this system more than $2K, buying those parts listed above with an amaing $300-$400 case etc. cost about $1500 retail from newegg right now, Apple would no doubt get volume prices cheaper and could still sell these starting in the $1500-$2000 range with various RAM, HDD, GPU upgrade options.

I have a 2006 Mac Pro 1,1 that I purchased on day one when they were released. At that time, purchasing the equivilant parts from newegg for DIY hackintosh actually cost MORE just for the parts than it did to buy a new Mac Pro. My Mac Pro is still running strong and has a flashed ATI 4870 as well as upgarded 2.33Ghz quad-core I dropped in there.

I am however excited for the refresh but honestly last year's 2009 Mac Pro release seemed to me like a total rip-off value wise compared with previous offerings. Not so much do to Apple but perhaps what was available parts wise in the market at the time, I am not sure, just seems like current offerings are so expensive for what you actually get, I mean my Pro that I purchased for $2400 in 2006 still screams especially with my upgrads that were almost free after selling the apple parts that I sold.

I want to get a new Mac Pro now but I just can't justify it when I can purchase an iMac that includes the 27" display I would be getting. For storage options you can get a 4 bay FW800 RAID enclosure and put 4 2TB drives if you like. The new iMac really is doing the undercutting I think and an $1800 priced Mac Pro using the parts above would sell like mad I think.

[Phantom Gremlin]

Using a non-xeon X58 setup for the new single CPU/Entry model Mac Pro would drop the overall price quite a bit. The new i7 930 quad-core retails at about $280 compared to the equivilant quad-core Xeon which runs over $1200 and offers no real-world benefit.

I don't know where you're getting your numbers from, but the Xeon and non-Xeon CPUs are pretty close in price. My source is Wikipedia, so you know it's accurate. :)

Here's the W3520 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Xeon_microprocessors#.22Bloomfield.22_.2845_nm.29_2) that Apple currently uses in the entry level Mac Pro. Its price is $284. Apple will probably replace it with the soon-to-be-announced W3530 for the 2010 entry level Mac Pro. I expect the price to be similar.

Here's the i7-930 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_microprocessors#.22Bloomfield.22_.2845_nm.29) that you mention. The price is $294, just about the same.

Intel charges a big premium for the CPUs that can operate in dual sockets. But that's not what Apple uses in the entry level Mac Pro.

I want to get a new Mac Pro now but I just can't justify it when I can purchase an iMac that includes the 27" display I would be getting

A different way to put this is that the iMacs are a very very good value. The Mac Pros, not so much.

For storage options you can get a 4 bay FW800 RAID enclosure and put 4 2TB drives if you like. The new iMac really is doing the undercutting I think and an $1800 priced Mac Pro using the parts above would sell like mad I think.

Have you pushed any real data across FW800? I'm frustrated since it's much slower than the built in drive in my iMac. For surfing the web I'm sure it's OK, but I'm trying to copy and/or transcode large MPEG video files and I'm not at all happy with Firewire.

[Altimeter88]

I don't know where you're getting your numbers from, but the Xeon and non-Xeon CPUs are pretty close in price. My source is Wikipedia, so you know it's accurate. :)

Here's the W3520 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Xeon_microprocessors#.22Bloomfield.22_.2845_nm.29_2) that Apple currently uses in the entry level Mac Pro. Its price is $284. Apple will probably replace it with the soon-to-be-announced W3530 for the 2010 entry level Mac Pro. I expect the price to be similar.

Here's the i7-930 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_microprocessors#.22Bloomfield.22_.2845_nm.29) that you mention. The price is $294, just about the same.

Intel charges a big premium for the CPUs that can operate in dual sockets. But that's not what Apple uses in the entry level Mac Pro.



A different way to put this is that the iMacs are a very very good value. The Mac Pros, not so much.



Have you pushed any real data across FW800? I'm frustrated since it's much slower than the built in drive in my iMac. For surfing the web I'm sure it's OK, but I'm trying to copy and/or transcode large MPEG video files and I'm not at all happy with Firewire.

I did some research, I guess I just assumed they used the same dual CPU capable X series Xeons as the dual CPU Mac Pro model...that makes the current Mac Pros even less of a bargain which is why I originially suggested they switch to the 930, now it just makes no sense to me why they don't offer a lower model starting at $1600 or so.
I know the Pro's are great but when you compare the part prices of the 2009 models to what I paid for my Mac Pro 1,1 2006 intel model, the new ones really are a crappy value. Like I said earlier, you couldn't even buy those parts from Newegg at the same price it cost to get a full Mac Pro from Apple at that time.
It just sucks now knowing you can buy better parts for almost a thousand less than the current Mac Pro offerings.

Regarding what you said above about FW800, yes the current i5/i7 iMacs are an amazing value, but the lack of a eSATA port or USB3.0 has kept me from jumping on one and selling my current Mac Pro, hopefully we will see some better value offerings with new Cinema displays soon, if not a new hackintosh may be in my future.

[JesterJJZ]

Shafted again...new Mac Pros sometime soon please....

[Magic Lantern]

'mobile devices company'

[Wild-Bill]

Epic Fail, Apple. Macbook Pros updated last JUNE get updated after 10 months. Average refresh cycle of the Mac Pro is..... I don't know. I'll need a dual 6-core processor machine to compute that one.




P.S.


Thanks alot (sarcasm) to whichever of the mods took it upon themselves to close my earlier thread for no good reason. :rolleyes:

[xgman]

Shafted again...new Mac Pros sometime soon please....

I'm loosing hope for anytime soon. Clearly not a priority for Apple, nor is most of the computer line, including the OS, according to today's macrumors article:

"Apple might have had to delay the development and subsequently the release of MAc OS X 10.7. There should not be any beta release for developers at the WWDC 2010 this summer. This delay is not linked to difficulties in development, but rather to the changes in assignment of the engineer teams to the iPad and iPhone OS, making the evolution of Mac OS X a secondary task.
This unconfirmed information comes as a confirmation of a recent news in which we were reporting that software development teams have been massively reassigned during the past months to make the iPad release and roadmap possible. If WWDC 2009 was mostly dedicated to the iPhone OS, the 2010 edition might be the iPad/iPhone party, and Mac users as well as developers will have to wait probably another year before getting Mac OS X 10.7.?

[fearoftigers]

Well I think some Mac Pro users are frustrated that they can purchase a cheaper i7 iMac that comes with an awesome 27" display that outperforms the Mac Pro in most applications. Granted, it doesn't have the expandiblity that the current Mac Pro has but consider the following:

Using a non-xeon X58 setup for the new single CPU/Entry model Mac Pro would drop the overall price quite a bit. The new i7 930 quad-core retails at about $280 compared to the equivilant quad-core Xeon which runs over $1200 and offers no real-world benefit. Doing this for the entry model would still allow an upgrade option of the i980x 6-core during checkout at the apple store.

There is no reason to price this system more than $2K, buying those parts listed above with an amaing $300-$400 case etc. cost about $1500 retail from newegg right now, Apple would no doubt get volume prices cheaper and could still sell these starting in the $1500-$2000 range with various RAM, HDD, GPU upgrade options.

I have a 2006 Mac Pro 1,1 that I purchased on day one when they were released. At that time, purchasing the equivilant parts from newegg for DIY hackintosh actually cost MORE just for the parts than it did to buy a new Mac Pro. My Mac Pro is still running strong and has a flashed ATI 4870 as well as upgarded 2.33Ghz quad-core I dropped in there.

I am however excited for the refresh but honestly last year's 2009 Mac Pro release seemed to me like a total rip-off value wise compared with previous offerings. Not so much do to Apple but perhaps what was available parts wise in the market at the time, I am not sure, just seems like current offerings are so expensive for what you actually get, I mean my Pro that I purchased for $2400 in 2006 still screams especially with my upgrads that were almost free after selling the apple parts that I sold.

I want to get a new Mac Pro now but I just can't justify it when I can purchase an iMac that includes the 27" display I would be getting. For storage options you can get a 4 bay FW800 RAID enclosure and put 4 2TB drives if you like. The new iMac really is doing the undercutting I think and an $1800 priced Mac Pro using the parts above would sell like mad I think.

Yes I'm in exactly the same quandary as you.

I'm so tempted by the high end 16gb ram iMac but if I wonder if it’s a good long term investment (given all the iMac build problems and lack of expandability etc).

There’s no chance I’m going to get the current 4 core Mac Pro, it doesn’t seem like good value at all.

But are Apple really thinking of leaving the Pro market or is this just extrapolation? Maybe I should just plump for an iMac.

I’m a music producer but use a lot of high end plugins like Omnisphere that just eat through Ram and processing power.

Opinion / advice anyone?

[xgman]

Could there even be a glimmer of hope here?: :o

"Please join Apple for an update on their latest hardware and software products. Lunch will be provided to all those attending.

Date: Wednesday April 14th, 2010

Time: 11:30am – 12:30pm (PT)

Where: Renaissance Hotel, Las Vegas"

[beaker7]

Could there even be a glimmer of hope here?: :o

"Please join Apple for an update on their latest hardware and software products. Lunch will be provided to all those attending.

Date: Wednesday April 14th, 2010

Time: 11:30am – 12:30pm (PT)

Where: Renaissance Hotel, Las Vegas"

Where did you see that?

[Wild-Bill]

Ooooooooooooh!






I wonder what they're serving for lunch!

[Magic Lantern]

My speculation for the 2010:

2011.

[parakiet]

Could there even be a glimmer of hope here?: :o

"Please join Apple for an update on their latest hardware and software products. Lunch will be provided to all those attending.

Date: Wednesday April 14th, 2010

Time: 11:30am – 12:30pm (PT)

Where: Renaissance Hotel, Las Vegas"

new pad, mbp, software stuff...

[Wild-Bill]

UPDATE: The Page has been taken down, but the hotel has confirmed to 9to5mac that an Apple event is in fact booked from 8-12 on Wednesday. Whether it’s an official Apple event or an Apple related event put on by someone else remains uncertain.

UPDATE 2: Mac Soda has been told by the company responsible for the event, Integrated Media Technologies, to immediately pull the story because it has no affiliation with Apple and there will not be any announcements by Apple. Maybe it’s just me, but if I didn’t want people to think it was an Apple event, I wouldn’t write “Please join Apple for an update on their latest hardware and software products.” on the invitation.

Link 8-( (http://macsoda.com/2010/04/11/new-final-cut-studio-macbook-pros-wednesday-at-nab/)

I also predict the 2010 Mac Pro refresh will occur in 2011.....maybe.

[keewe]

wont happen:

http://www.9to5mac.com/Apple-NAB-2010-Final-Cut-Pro-4-894598534

[Wild-Bill]

Beat you to the punch.

[xgman]

Where did you see that?


here: http://www.garysky.net/apple-nab-event-2010-hardware-and-software-updates-expected-5.html and I know it's wishful foolish thinking at this point. :( I doubt we will see anything before June at the earliest, but we can always hope.

[Transporteur]

My speculation, we won't see a new Mac Pro.
The 2009 was the last Pro machine they sold and they now completely focus on consumer hardware like iMacs and MacBooks.

Would be nice though, if they could release a firmware update so that we can pop two hex cores in our 2009 Pro's. :D

[DualShock]

Isn't it not a good thing to engage in premature specification? ;)

[rajbonham]

My speculation for the 2010:

2011.

Hahaha, but seriously, this is reaallly lame. I honestly believe if they don't use the free advertising they would get from announcing a "real" pro computer during NAB, Apple is just foolish.

Isn't it not a good thing to engage in premature specification? ;)

What?

[DualShock]

What?

Steve Jobs used the phrase "premature specification" when referring to the leaked Power Mac G5 specs when officially introducing it at WWDC one year.

[rajbonham]

Steve Jobs used the phrase "premature specification" when referring to the leaked Power Mac G5 specs when officially introducing it at WWDC one year.

Oh, got it. Thanks. :)

[nanofrog]

But are Apple really thinking of leaving the Pro market or is this just extrapolation? Maybe I should just plump for an iMac.
It's extrapolation, but it's based on fact, not wild speculation (hunch, nothing to support it).

I'll try to give you a quick run-down.
1. Intel's moving to more cores per processor = more expensive parts, particularly in the Xeon families. This means that when you add in Apple's high margins, the price is getting out of hand, even for die-hard Apple fans. Even corporations that use MP's or XServes have their limits as to what they'd pay.
2. Updates from Apple are getting sloppy (i.e. bugs slipping through).
3. Workstation's market share is miniscule compared to other segments, notably the portable device arena.
4. LightPeak will be out in the not too distant future.
5. Contention between 3rd party software developers hasn't really been great, and it's highly contentious between Adobe and Apple (and seems to be heating up, given the recent front page articles on MR and other sites). This could result in Adobe completely abandoning Apple's products in the not too distant future, if the sales numbers don't generate enough profits (and especially if no profit at all).

Apple could consider the use of LightPeak with an iMac as an MP replacement. It's cheaper too, as they'd increase the sales market for the iMacs, and eliminate the R&D devoted to the MP's. Better margins are possible if the iMac sales numbers increase (i.e. R&D split over more systems = lower cost per system). And if so, ditch the XServe all together (those sales are even smaller than the MP I'd imagine).

Simply put, they're following the money.

My speculation for the 2010:

2011.
Nice. :D

My speculation, we won't see a new Mac Pro.
The 2009 was the last Pro machine they sold and they now completely focus on consumer hardware like iMacs and MacBooks.

Would be nice though, if they could release a firmware update so that we can pop two hex cores in our 2009 Pro's. :D
They'll at least produce a line this time around, as all that's necessary is a drop-in swap via a firmware update.

Past that though, it's getting harder to tell. Personally, it seems to me that 2013 would be the last year of the MP (parts availability & associated cost per), and they're likely to seriously consider switching worstation users to a LightPeak equiped iMac. Seriously. It's cheaper, and money is Apple's primary concern, just like any other corporation.

[Wild-Bill]

I agree with all your points nanofrog. However, on Point #1 about the increasing prices in Intel CPUs in adding cores, coupled with Apple's outrageous margins..... Apple are already making huge margins on all of their products. Some more than others, like the iPad which brings them an almost 50% margin. And that margin doesn't change when economies of scale kick in on the assembly line and manufacturing costs decline.

My point is, with so many new products bringing in large margins, surely they could accept a more reasonable margin on the Mac Pro and not leave the Mac Pro community out in the wind to twist.

[nanofrog]

I agree with all your points nanofrog. However, on Point #1 about the increasing prices in Intel CPUs in adding cores, coupled with Apple's outrageous margins..... Apple are already making huge margins on all of their products. Some more than others, like the iPad which brings them an almost 50% margin. And that margin doesn't change when economies of scale kick in on the assembly line and manufacturing costs decline.

My point is, with so many new products bringing in large margins, surely they could accept a more reasonable margin on the Mac Pro and not leave the Mac Pro community out in the wind to twist.
I'm basing it off of the final price (actually production costs * 1.x, x = margin). 40% on a small number is easier to swallow than 40% on a much more expensive item to produce. If the MP's were substantially less expensive, it would help push sales. Now whether or not that generates the largest pile of cash (profit), depends on the specifics (quantity sold * profit per unit). And we know Apple is greedy... :eek: :p

In the case of the portable device market, the sales numbers are massive, and even though the price is lower, is still generating a much larger portion of Apple's total profits per unit time than the MP + XServe.

I agree they could do what you describe with the MP's, but as they don't publish the exact sales numbers of the MP and XServe, it's hard to say what's truly viable, as they won't take a loss (or even be willing to accept break even IMO). Shareholders are just too conditioned for high margins given the recent quarterlys. Ultimately, they seem to have shoved the MP to the absolute bottom of the developement pile (well, maybe just above the :apple:TV). :p Human resources are limited, so they start with the most profitable segments first, and move down. New products and delays are increasing the cycle times of the MP and XServe lines. As they've not hired additional people (they certainly have the cash), this lends me to think they're contemplating it's continued developement all together (assuming they don't have their heads up... in terms of being able to see/predict what's happening in the industry in terms of workstations and determine if they're going to remain a part of it or not).

[xgman]

Quite frankly I just wish they would license OSX to pc makers and be done with it. Then we could upgrade on our schedule and not theirs. At least PC makers tell you in advance what they are getting ready to come out with.

[shabbasuraj]

Hi guys,

I know this has been discussed to death, but I am looking to get a new Mac Pro and don't really want to buy as yet because of the imminent refresh.

Could someone please supply the latest rumour info of as to when these are likely to be updated.

Also will the new Mac Pro be likely to be a major leap in performance compared to the current one? and what about the price? are they likely to go up?

Many thanks.

Further proof with the announcements today that the MacPro will be EOL'ed.

So buy whatever you want now.. 'cause by this time next year they are GONE.

[Umbongo]

Further proof with the announcements today that the MacPro will be EOL'ed.

So buy whatever you want now.. 'cause by this time next year they are GONE.

Utter nonsense.

[nanofrog]

Quite frankly I just wish they would license OSX to pc makers and be done with it. Then we could upgrade on our schedule and not theirs. At least PC makers tell you in advance what they are getting ready to come out with.
It's possible, and if they end up in a portable device only company, has practical implementations for them (the ability to continue to develop the device versions).

But as long as they've something they have that can be used (i.e. iMacs are still generate acceptable profit margins), not likely as it would kill the iMac sales.

[shabbasuraj]

Utter nonsense.

The proof is in the pudding.

"Apple is a mobile company now" Jobs.

[Umbongo]

The proof is in the pudding.

"Apple is a mobile company now" Jobs.

Yeah and what are they going to develop all that technology on?

[nanofrog]

Further proof with the announcements today that the MacPro will be EOL'ed.

So buy whatever you want now.. 'cause by this time next year they are GONE.
What are you basing this on?

There's still upcomming parts that can be used for a couple of years yet. 2014 OTOH, looks to be another story (Xeon lines). At that point, there is the possibility they could resort to using high end/enthusiast desktop parts. But at that point, they could dump it in favor of a LightPeak equiped iMac to take it's place. Not a traditional workstation in terms of Xeon branding and ECC memory, but Intel's newer parts in the pipeline are aimed at this (otherwise, the parts are the same, just no ECC capabilities). They could even add that, and brand it differently (not under the Xeon moniker).

Just other makers will likely offer them in systems that actually have PCIe slots. ;) :p

[nanofrog]

Yeah and what are they going to develop all that technology on?
They could license OS X, but that won't happen as long as they've profitable desktop system market as it would destroy those sales in one fell swoop.

But if they ever discontinue the iMac and Mini, then it's a possibility (really a necessity) in order to have their own OS to develop the portable versions on.

Not in the next few years at any rate. They'd switch to the iMac (LightPeak equiped) as a development platform if the MP/XServe do go way of the Dodo.

[ildondeigiocchi]

Yeah and what are they going to develop all that technology on?

I completely agree with you. All Mac software is developed using Mac Pros so I doubt that Apple is gonna drop the product line. However, I do think it's about time they wake up and start paying attention to Mac users needs because if weren't all pro users Apple wouldn't be standing here today. It's thanks to our loyalty that they've reached so much success as a company. I love Apple because of their quality products, it's just that their pricing for the Mac Pro has gotten out of hand and seriously, it's about time they update it. HP and Dell are ahead of them with the new Xeon chips! Come on Apple, release a Mac Pro ASAP. :D

[shabbasuraj]

Yeah and what are they going to develop all that technology on?

Seems like there is a real and direct movement towards their "all in one" iMac... and perhaps eventually cloud computing.

The iMac is the strongest and fastest. period.

Seriously, Apple has neglected the pro ranks (on purpose, perhaps?)

Apple has diverted 10.7 resources to iPhone 4.0

Apple makes more cash in 1 hour of selling iphones then they probably do selling pro hardware in a month.

Just a revenue stream thing..

Pro's everywhere are doing the hackintosh thing, mainly they need the power.


Nothing personal.


So ya, MacPro's are EOL'ed, either it is done officially, or not. MacPros are and have been regulated to the proverbial backburner pretty much since the iPhone was released.

No other group of Apple die hards feel as shunned by the company than the Creative Pros.

Think about the spat between Adobe/flash and Steve... these creative pro's just continually shake their heads everytime they fire up CS4/5.






.
.

.





(.........allegedly)

[Umbongo]

Seems like there is a real and direct movement towards their "all in one" iMac... and perhaps eventually cloud computing.

The iMac is the strongest and fastest. period.

Seriously, Apple has neglected the pro ranks (on purpose, perhaps?)



The 2.8GHz quad iMac has a slightly faster processor than the base Mac Pro, it can't compete on graphics, IO or memory performance, nor does it have expandability. It can't compete with the processor upgrades available on the Mac Pro.

There are so many threads on this forum saying the Mac Pros neglected etc, yet Apple have had the same behaviour towards it since 2006 aside from a pricing change. Intel have major updates to processors and within a couple of months Apple launch new Mac Pros. There is no evidence anything has changed.

Apple are about the complete solution, not just in the form of a single device but for someone's whole interaction with technology. Desktop computers are still very much apart of that.

[shabbasuraj]

The 2.8GHz quad iMac has a slightly faster processor than the base Mac Pro, it can't compete on graphics, IO or memory performance, nor does it have expandability. It can't compete with the processor upgrades available on the Mac Pro.

There are so many threads on this forum saying the Mac Pros neglected etc, yet Apple have had the same behaviour towards it since 2006 aside from a pricing change. Intel have major updates to processors and within a couple of months Apple launch new Mac Pros. There is no evidence anything has changed.

Apple are about the complete solution, not just in the form of a single device but for someone's whole interaction with technology. Desktop computers are still very much apart of that.

True..


My GREAT hope with the move to Intel was that finally, Apple would have a reliable source of chips and thus would follow a SEMI-reasonable pricing adjustment schedule.


....fail.



Basically the current MacSlow line needs a 30-40% price adjustment....



.. no?

[macusersince5]

As I will be buying my first mac desktop, already have a 2 year old laptop, I hope they continue to produce the mac pro and release it soon or near WWDC with also 64 bit final cut studio. I am starting to need the raw power, And I want a desktop computer with expandability because I want to hold onto this computer for a while. So please don't discontinue the mac pro's, there are those who still need/want them and have uses for them.

[Transporteur]

The iMac is the strongest and fastest. period.


Very interesting statement! :D

Completely nonsense for the current machines, but as nanofrog said, maybe one day the iMac will be as strong to be considered a workstation (even though it won't use workstation parts any more).

[nanofrog]

However, I do think it's about time they wake up and start paying attention to Mac users needs because if weren't all pro users Apple wouldn't be standing here today.
Customer Loyalty = users dedicated to the manufacturer/brand

Manufacturer Loyalty to the User = Non existant with Apple (Not exactly customer service, but closer to customer support; it's rare in any industry though) :eek:

Seriously. If it gets in the way of the bottom line, it's gone. It's as simple as that, and the workstation market is a very small part of their total net profits per quarter. So it's possible it can happen.

The 2.8GHz quad iMac has a slightly faster processor than the base Mac Pro, it can't compete on graphics, IO or memory performance, nor does it have expandability. It can't compete with the processor upgrades available on the Mac Pro.
Overall, the MP has more to offer in overall performance, especially if the right upgrades are made.

But I see it as less to do with Intel (there are chips that can be used for workstations past 2013), but the market share Apple holds in this segment. We don't have solid numbers, but what is available, doesn't look good. Now combine Intel's price increases in this segment and Apple's margins, they're going to out-price their user base to the point it's no longer financially viable to continue using MP's. The sales numbers will drop to a critical point, and they'll have to pull it. That's not to say they won't try to use an iMac to replace it by leveraging LightPeak for graphics and storage, but it's lacking expansion which is a deal breaker for some at least. Resulting in more pros lost.

My GREAT hope with the move to Intel was that finally, Apple would have a reliable source of chips and thus would follow a SEMI-reasonable pricing adjustment schedule.
They do have a reliable source of CPU's, but the details are in other areas, such as low sales volume, normal development cycles, new products being introduced, and most importantly, a revolving development team. It seems they're cycled from project to project across the entire range of lines (no sub group dedicated to the desktop product range).

Completely nonsense for the current machines, but as nanofrog said, maybe one day the iMac will be as strong to be considered a workstation (even though it won't use workstation parts any more).
An AIO isn't ideal as a workstation, as many need the ability to add upgrades internally, and memory could be a real problem (some need more than what 2GB DIMM's can provide, as 4GB aren't the lowest or second lowest capacity yet). Even LightPeak could be made to bottleneck (even assuming it's real world performance = 10Gb/s <1.25GB/s>), a RAID can exceed that on it's own. Now consider improved graphics would have to use this as well, you see where it's going. That could be mitigated by using dual LightPeak channels, and assuming the final parts meet target cost, is quite doable ($10USD per in parts).

But given their recent products, it seems likely the AIO solution is what will happen from what it appears to me (history + minimal effort & costs).

Perhaps they'd make a new line (the real headless Mac that's been begged for for years), but only if it's able to deliver on desired levels of net profit in that segment. So low cost, not likely if it ever does show, as they'd want to make absolutely certain it won't cut into the iMac's sales, which is back to where we are right now, only with desktop parts (and that happens to be the direction Intel's going). But it all depends on the $$$, and it doesn't look to promising IMO.

[skiffx]

Would be cool for somebody actually to go through Apple's Annual Report and see if there is a per product break down of their revenue sources.

[Umbongo]

Would be cool for somebody actually to go through Apple's Annual Report and see if there is a per product break down of their revenue sources.

They don't publish those numbers, just the number of desktops/laptops sold and the average prices for those two things.

[Deepshade]

If the MacPro range were a serious consideration fro Apple they'd be refreshed by now. Sandy Bridge at end of year makes any release from Apple in the next 6 months seem a little pointless. Does anyone want a 'PRO' computer with a 6 months shelf life?.

Apple and Jobs have shown no sign of respect for the people who put them there in the first place. It's just down to money - if they screw up with Adobe and mess up the lives of a few hundred thousand creatives - what does that matter against the millions of pad, pods, phones, downloads, ads etc.

Maybe they'll save face and put out a token machine (to try to justify the ridiculous prices of the so called top of the range machines). My guess is the days of the MacPro range are numbered. Apple gadgets will take over and any serious, pro user customer loyalty will simply drown in the face of the higher revenue stream.

[Umbongo]

If the MacPro range were a serious consideration fro Apple they'd be refreshed by now. Sandy Bridge at end of year makes any release from Apple in the next 6 months seem a little pointless. Does anyone want a 'PRO' computer with a 6 months shelf life?.

Apple and Jobs have shown no sign of respect for the people who put them there in the first place. It's just down to money - if they screw up with Adobe and mess up the lives of a few hundred thousand creatives - what does that matter against the millions of pad, pods, phones, downloads, ads etc.

Maybe they'll save face and put out a token machine (to try to justify the ridiculous prices of the so called top of the range machines). My guess is the days of the MacPro range are numbered. Apple gadgets will take over and any serious, pro user customer loyalty will simply drown in the face of the higher revenue stream.

Sandy Bridge DP Xeons aren't likely to be seen in the next 12 months. Anything Apple release will have a year of shelf life.

[parakiet]

if like apple cares?

look at the 2009 mac pro.. if they wanted the mac pro to be ' the latest and best' we all would have been enjoying our mac pro 2010 for a while now.

we want to buy the latest en the best. it's us, not them

[xgman]

If the MacPro range were a serious consideration fro Apple they'd be refreshed by now.

Not necessarily. Since Apple usually doesn't pre-announce products, they may be waiting on parts and assembly. The new cpus are just now shipping to OEM's in any quantity and one or both of the new vid cards may be slow to convert over to apple specs. Nonetheless, Apple should really announce it's intentions on these things. They are hanging up a lot of professionals right now and creating bad will among many of it's pro loyalists over this.

[rajbonham]

Not necessarily. Since Apple usually doesn't pre-announce products, they may be waiting on parts and assembly. The new cpus are just now shipping to OEM's in any quantity and one or both of the new vid cards may be slow to convert over to apple specs. Nonetheless, Apple should really announce it's intentions on these things. They are hanging up a lot of professionals right now and creating bad will among many of it's pro loyalists over this.

Excellent post and I couldn't agree more. :) I really think at this time, the CPU's are the holdup. I get the feeling a lot of people don't realize just how recently these new CPU's were released. I'm sure Intel is simply trying to get them to everyone. I feel like we are going to see a huge amount of these CPU's pop up at retailers, etc. in the next 1-2 weeks.

I could be way off, but I seriously think there are a bunch of Mac Pro towers sitting at the factories, missing one component, the CPU's. Once they get those in, I think it's time for the updated Mac Pro.

[you39]

I could be way off, but I seriously think there are a bunch of Mac Pro towers sitting at the factories, missing one component, the CPU's. Once they get those in, I think it's time for the updated Mac Pro.

If that's the case... what do you guys think will be the configurations? Seeing the 13" MacBook Pro updates... and if low chip supply from Intel is the cause for the delay... I've come to wonder if Apple might reserve the next processor generation for the upper models, leaving the base model with the current quad Nehalem, but a little more ram, larger HD, later GPU? What do you think? :confused:

[nanofrog]

Excellent post and I couldn't agree more. :) I really think at this time, the CPU's are the holdup. I get the feeling a lot of people don't realize just how recently these new CPU's were released. I'm sure Intel is simply trying to get them to everyone. I feel like we are going to see a huge amount of these CPU's pop up at retailers, etc. in the next 1-2 weeks.

I could be way off, but I seriously think there are a bunch of Mac Pro towers sitting at the factories, missing one component, the CPU's. Once they get those in, I think it's time for the updated Mac Pro.
There's another possiblility as well.

Theoretically, all that's needed to make the existing boards to work with the new CPUID's, is updated microcode. And this has been the case with some boards from other vendors.

But there are also some that have needed to have the board modified slightly. Specifically, the CPU Voltage Regulator has required different resistor/s to achieve the value necessary to function within Intel's voltage spec (previous parts couldn't go low enough for the new CPU's, but are fine for the Nehalem parts). Ultimately, it depends on the exact parts used to construct the VR's, and why some boards need this, while others don't.

So it's possible that the boards have had to go back for PCB rework to swap out resistors to get the VR's functional. That takes time, and could create the delay.

And since it's just a part or two, is financially valid (cheaper than all new boards), especially if there's a stock pile (on the expectation that the previous board design would be able to accept the new chips as-is).

This sort of thing does happen.

[Phantom Gremlin]

Theoretically, all that's needed to make the existing boards to work with the new CPUID's, is updated microcode. And this has been the case with some boards from other vendors.

But there are also some that have needed to have the board modified slightly.

Yes, I was about to say the same thing. Earlier you had mentioned that it was just a firmware update. But Dell was forced to come out with an updated motherboard for their T3500 workstation if you want to order it with the new CPUs. So perhaps Apple is delaying because it needed to also do that.

[nanofrog]

Yes, I was about to say the same thing. Earlier you had mentioned that it was just a firmware update. But Dell was forced to come out with an updated motherboard for their T3500 workstation if you want to order it with the new CPUs. So perhaps Apple is delaying because it needed to also do that.
It's quite possible they had to send existing daughterboards (stock in hand before the engineering samples shipped) for rework to change the resistor/s values to get the correct value to allow the new parts to function (while still retaining function of the existing Nehalem parts, particularly on the SP versions).

The DP versions are only going to run 56xx parts, so there's no need to retain backwards compatibility with the 55xx parts' VID, though there's a good chance it would.

Ultimately, the differences between boards that do and don't need this, is a result of the parts & values selected during the Nehalem validation phase. Commercially available parts are fixed values, and getting the perfect value usually isn't possible without the use of either a potentiometer (adds labor to adjust it), or having custom values made (no labor, but more expensive for the parts).

If you're interested, poke around digikey.com for resistors, and see the different values available. They're all fixed, and are common values (quite useful, but do have limitations depending on the specific requirements). Most of the time, you get close enough with available parts and everything will work (it gets into the specifics, but there's a financial impact for every decision made, and in the end, finances tends to be a dictator in the form of an accountant :eek: :p). :rolleyes: :D

[jmfm]

As many people in this list, I'm anxiously awaiting for the new line of MPs to be available. I've been a PC user all my life but after playing around with my daughter's iMac (which I purchased "for her" :-) ), I've decided that the replacement for my 4 year old PC will be a Mac. Now that virtualization technology has come a long way and that running linux and Windows applications on a Mac can be done painlessly, there is no reason not to go for the computer with the best hardware and OS: the Mac. Why not have the best of all worlds if you can?

I need a powerful and expandable machine, so the MP is the obvious choice. I have a question, though. How expandable MPs really are? One of the things that are making me wait instead of acquiring one of the current MPs right away is USB 3. I need to use external hard disks to store lots of data and I need fast data transfer speed. Even if USB 3 is not implemented in the new line of MPs (whenever that comes out), would it be possible to add it later on via a 3rd party PCI card?

The second question I have is: how well do third party peripherals work with Macs. I'm saying this because probably even the lowest range Mac Pro is going to be expensive (I know, I know, when you consider everything that is included, perhaps it is not so expensive, but still) so I'm probably not going to be able to afford a 27" Mac monitor. So, how well would a third party LCD monitor work with a Mac? Would I have problems with drivers or native resolutions? How about mice and keyboards? I'm sorry but even though I fell in love with my daughter's iMac and I'm tempted to take it away from her, I cannot really get used to the mice and keyboard. They look cool, but in terms of ergonomics and usability, they cannot compete with other products in the market (I hope I don't get flamed for this). I've made a considerable investment on and ergonomic keyboard and mouse for my PC and I'm very happy with them, so I'd like to keep them.

OK, that's it for now. I hope somebody can enlighten me.

JMF

[dryjoy]

You shouldn't have trouble with most peripherals, certainly not stuff like mice, keyboards and displays.

I use the cheapest generic 22" display I could find with my Mac Pro, because I use my machine exclusively for music, so as long as I can see what I'm doing it doesn't matter. Actually, the display looks great to me, but I'm no graphics pro!

There are no drivers for my display, so any USB control functions don't work, but I just adjust the brightness and so on manually with the controls on the display itself. This doesn't bother me at all, but if it bothers you, you would have to look for a display with Mac drivers I guess.

I use a Logitech mouse, because I don't like the Mighty Mouse that came with the Mac Pro. The Magic Mouse was released a few months after I bought my Mac, I might have gone for that if it had been available to order with my machine, but my Logitech one is fine.

Personally, I love the wired keyboard that comes with the Mac Pro as the default option, but if your preferred one is wired, it will work fine (not sure about bluetooth ones, do they need a driver?). The only thing is that a lot of the keys on the Mac keyboard are labelled specifically for OS X functions. I think using a Windows style keyboard with the Mac would annoy me, but I know some people do.

The mouse should be fine as well, but if it has lots of buttons and you use them all, you might need to see if there's a driver. I think up to four buttons probably wouldn't need a driver (as long as it's wired), as that is what the Mighty Mouse has, but my Logitech one for example has a fifth button, and OS X didn't respond to that, until I installed the driver.

You will be able to add a USB 3 card to a Mac Pro, no worries. That's one of the benefits of choosing a Mac Pro over an iMac. They're not as expandable as a PC tower, because Apple still controls a lot of things, but it does mean you can add cards to keep up with the latest interface technology without having to buy a new computer for quite a while. The reason I chose a Mac Pro is because I wanted the internal drive bays.

Macs have become much more standardised over the last decade in terms of peripherals and architecture, so you shouldn't have too many problems.
It's not quite the same story when you start looking at things like Graphics cards, but the bread and butter stuff is pretty straightforward, I think.

I'm not sure about bluetooth mice and keyboards though, not sure if they need drivers or just work.

[jmfm]

Thanks a lot dryjoy. What you say alleviates my worries. I'm very attached to my Logitech Wave keyboard (I really recommend it to anybody who experiences any problems with their wrists, it is really a comfortable keyboard).

I'm not so worried about having to figure out what keys correspond to the different OSX functions. I just learned, for instance, that the 'cmd' key for the Mac corresponds to the 'windows' key on a PC keyboard. I think I'll be so enthralled with my Mac that I won't mind having to learn new habits or tricks (keyboard shortcuts, etc.) Now if they would just announced the availability of the new Mac Pros ...

JMF

[nanofrog]

One of the things that are making me wait instead of acquiring one of the current MPs right away is USB 3. I need to use external hard disks to store lots of data and I need fast data transfer speed. Even if USB 3 is not implemented in the new line of MPs (whenever that comes out), would it be possible to add it later on via a 3rd party PCI card?
USB 3.0 is available in PCIe cards, but so far, I've not seen one with drivers for OS X (hopefully just a matter of time). But there's a performance issue with them as well. 1x PCIe lane, so no matter what's connected, PCIe 1.x spec will only be able to achieve 250MB/s, and a PCIe 2.0 spec slot 500MB/s. (USB 3.0 has ~3.2Gb/s = 400MB/s real world throughput from available information so far, and that's not taking the slot issues into consideration, which will be slower in the event of an older system). As it's USB, it won't run at it's theoretical max.

What you can do, is get an eSATA card, and run them that way. There's both 3.0 and 6.0Gb/s currently available for Macs (real world max throughput is ~270MB/s for 3.0Gb/s and 540MB/s for 6.0Gb/s).

[jmfm]

Thanks nanofrog. I understand that what you are saying would apply to the current MPs but are you sure this will also be the case with the new line of MPs (if there is any, I'm starting to wonder)?

Thanks for the suggestion about the eSata card. I had not thought about this. The only problem is the price of the external drives that go with these cards. A brief search in Google yielded some very highly priced hard disks. I would imagine (and hope) that if USB 3 really catches on, prices for USB 3 external drives would be much cheaper.

JM

[Dr.Pants]

If USB 3.0 is a necessary slot, I would wait for Intel to support it; I'm sure that there will be a PCIe USB 3.0 card for the MacPro eventually, but my understanding is that so far some of the released controllers have been flakey... this may not be the case now but that's always the impression I got.

I'd use eSATA as a solution for your disc woes; you have to pay extra for an enclosure, but you get a far more solid throughput IMO then USB.

As for displays, that's a similar story... bottom line is that a display's a display, but do your research and you might pay slightly more for a drastic improvement in quality (TN to eIPS, for example).

[reel2reel]

Seems like there is a real and direct movement towards their "all in one" iMac... and perhaps eventually cloud computing.

The iMac is the strongest and fastest. period.

Seriously, Apple has neglected the pro ranks (on purpose, perhaps?)

Apple has diverted 10.7 resources to iPhone 4.0

Apple makes more cash in 1 hour of selling iphones then they probably do selling pro hardware in a month.

Just a revenue stream thing..

Pro's everywhere are doing the hackintosh thing, mainly they need the power.


Nothing personal.


So ya, MacPro's are EOL'ed, either it is done officially, or not. MacPros are and have been regulated to the proverbial backburner pretty much since the iPhone was released.

No other group of Apple die hards feel as shunned by the company than the Creative Pros.

Think about the spat between Adobe/flash and Steve... these creative pro's just continually shake their heads everytime they fire up CS4/5.

(.........allegedly)

Haha, what a bunch of nonsense.

Hey, I work in a pro environment day after grueling day, spitting out HD shows for broadcasters around the world and we do all on Mac Pro's. We've got about 10 of them now and keep buying more. And we're small potatoes in the broadcast world.

Do you actually know one single person that makes an actual living in the real world? I'm guessing your wisdom comes from forums, because you seem way out of touch.

Yeah, we're going to master our million dollar shows on a Hackintosh. :rolleyes: And try to get a show to HDCAM via an iMac. Buying a Mac Pro has a whole lot more to do with expansion than processor power. Processor prowess is for kids.

I apologize if you're actually being sarcastic.

[reel2reel]

Not necessarily. Since Apple usually doesn't pre-announce products, they may be waiting on parts and assembly. The new cpus are just now shipping to OEM's in any quantity and one or both of the new vid cards may be slow to convert over to apple specs. Nonetheless, Apple should really announce it's intentions on these things. They are hanging up a lot of professionals right now and creating bad will among many of it's pro loyalists over this.

Who's waiting? If a pro needs gear, it gets purchased as soon as possible. If it's your living, for real, you're not going to sit around waiting for the next best thing, especially when there isn't going to be any significant improvement. Most times new hardware just causes problems. This 'must-wait' mindset is created by marketing. Cameras with megapixel wars, computers with processor speed wars, etc, etc. It's a consumer mindset to wait. The working pro just gets to work.

[Umbongo]

Who's waiting? If a pro needs gear, it gets purchased as soon as possible. If it's your living, for real, you're not going to sit around waiting for the next best thing, especially when there isn't going to be any significant improvement. Most times new hardware just causes problems. This 'must-wait' mindset is created by marketing. Cameras with megapixel wars, computers with processor speed wars, etc, etc. It's a consumer mindset to wait. The working pro just gets to work.

It entirely depends on your current set up and or what you have access too. While most computer revisions tend not to offer massive performance a lot wait to get that "better value for money" from their purchase. Plenty of professionals who use their systems to make their living post on these forums about waiting. Also just because someone is best served by hardware like the Mac Pro it doesn't mean they have the best knowledge or thought process when it comes to purchasing it ;).

[RubbishBBspeed]

Who's waiting? If a pro needs gear, it gets purchased as soon as possible. If it's your living, for real, you're not going to sit around waiting for the next best thing.

You'd think so and normally i'd agree with you, the cost of even an uber high spec MacPro isn't a lot compared with the annual cost of employing someone, I think the office rent per employee at my place is about £18,000 a year so 6grand for a MP isn't a lot. however many of us have to justify purchases to beancounters who at the best of times act like mini hitlers. Under current conditions some people are even having to justify stationary.

To go out and spend a fair few thousand on a new MP and then be insulted as a new one is released less than two months (assuming June 2010) after the purchase and that it's a considerably better machine then there's a good chance that person could be finding themself on the 'your fired' list.

[ValSalva]

The more I read about Intel's push for Light Peak the more I think that new Mac Pros, even if they wait until June, will not have USB 3.0. I can see the next generation of Mac Pros in 2011 having Light Peak with Apple skipping USB 3.0 altogether.

[Nostromo]

What would be Apple's reason not to include USB 3.0 in the next Mac Pro line-up?

Isn't it supported enough? With so many Mac Pro users working with huge file sizes (especially those who word with HD video), USB 3.0 looks like a good thing to have.

[nanofrog]

Thanks nanofrog. I understand that what you are saying would apply to the current MPs but are you sure this will also be the case with the new line of MPs (if there is any, I'm starting to wonder)?
Yes.

Thanks for the suggestion about the eSata card. I had not thought about this. The only problem is the price of the external drives that go with these cards. A brief search in Google yielded some very highly priced hard disks. I would imagine (and hope) that if USB 3 really catches on, prices for USB 3 external drives would be much cheaper.
Get your own enclosures (no disks), and chose the drives of your choice. This works with single drive enclosures or those that have Port Multiplier chips in them (up to 5x SATA disks on a single eSATA port). Do your research carefully, and you'll end up with a reliable storage system.

But make sure the eSATA card supports Port Multiplier enclosures before you buy, as not all of them do. Oddly enough, the cheapest ones are typically based on the SIL3132 chip, and they do (Silicon Image provides OS X drivers). Others such as the newertech card do NOT (no drivers needed though, and has 6.0Gb/s capability).

If USB 3.0 is a necessary slot, I would wait for Intel to support it; I'm sure that there will be a PCIe USB 3.0 card for the MacPro eventually, but my understanding is that so far some of the released controllers have been flakey... this may not be the case now but that's always the impression I got.
It will be sorted at some point. The chips aren't ideal (throughput limiations as a result of the PCIe lane count = 1x, as the PCIe bridge is in the NEC chip).

eSATA would be a better solution, and cheap too.

Plenty of professionals who use their systems to make their living post on these forums about waiting. Also just because someone is best served by hardware like the Mac Pro it doesn't mean they have the best knowledge or thought process when it comes to purchasing it ;).
The "need now, buy now" comments are presumptive of the lack of an existing system (or one that is capable of running the tasks, even slowly).

But those that at least have something that's sufficient, even if slow, have a little more freedom to wait for the newer systems to chase that never ending goal of a better value for their money. :D

I guess some members may interpret such initial posts a little differently as to the current system situation. I know I've interpreted some as having nothing sufficient on hand for the needed usage on multiple occasions.

[HSJR]

I don't expect to see many changes based on what apple has done for the recent update of MBP line. They will increase the power of CPU & GPU power for sure and they may make Mac Pro has 1TB storage drive as basic and have option of 500 GB SSD.
What I really hope to see is ATI 5870 or ATI 5870 for mac pro 2008 & 2009 models.

[m0r4n1]

Light Peak and Blu-Ray..that only i want.

[surferfromuk]

I've been waiting two months - getting frustrating now - absurd even!

[jmfm]

Thanks to everybody that responded. Yes, the option of getting an enclosure for eSata and buying your own HD seems like a good option.

As for the comment from the other poster concerning the wait for the new models, for me pricing is a big consideration. Lately Apple has had the good sense of becoming more and more competitive in pricing. You can say that Mac Book Pros are a bit expensive but they certainly have become comparable in price with similar laptops in the PC world. Or, look at the pricing for the iPads. Who is going to buy a Joojoo (or an HP tablet, for that matter) when you can get an iPad for that price? I for one am expecting that the next line of Mac Pros will have at least some of the models at a reasonable price. That would be the smart thing for Apple to do. If they turn out to be very expensive, I can always try to get a refurbished last year model or a bargain for a second hand MP from someone who is willing to pay the price for a new one. If worse come to worse, I'll buy a core i7 from Dell or HP and do the Hackintosh thing. I would prefer not to, though.

JM

[Phantom Gremlin]

What would be Apple's reason not to include USB 3.0 in the next Mac Pro line-up?

I think this mostly depends on what is in Intel's support chipset. I.e. Apple currently uses Intel's X58 chipset. But Apple probably doesn't want to do a large scale re-design for the next gen Mac Pro (because the new Intel CPUs are pin compatible and only require some slight power tweaks).

So if Intel has a replacement for the X58 that is a more-or-less "drop in" replacement with USB 3.0, then Apple might use that. But if Intel doesn't have that chipset, then Apple will continue using the X58.

To Apple there probably isn't yet a "strategic" reason to add USB 3.0 capability to any of their products. If it's more-or-less "free" to do it they might, but not if they have to go out of their way to do so.

That's different than FireWire. Apple has that in most of their PCs. It's "strategic" to them, so even if Intel doesn't support it directly, Apple will add extra chips to "make it so".

[Ironduke]

Apple are going to have To get real.
The Price of a Mac Pro baseline is a joke, and more and more people who need desktop power are building hackintoshes.

If you dont reduce baseline prices put some serious stuff in the Pro, that makes it lustful

[rajbonham]

I've been waiting two months - getting frustrating now - absurd even!

I totally agree. I could care less about Light Peak and USB 3.0, mostly because I'm almost positive we aren't going to see it on the 2010 update.

Honestly, regardless of if the update is minor, I will be happy just to see it flat out happen before May or June.

[anim8or]

I totally agree. I could care less about Light Peak and USB 3.0, mostly because I'm almost positive we aren't going to see it on the 2010 update.

Honestly, regardless of if the update is minor, I will be happy just to see it flat out happen before May or June.

Seconded.

Just don't want to splash out on a current one to be superseeded by even only a slightly better version very soon after.

[ValSalva]

I totally agree. I could care less about Light Peak and USB 3.0, mostly because I'm almost positive we aren't going to see it on the 2010 update.

Honestly, regardless of if the update is minor, I will be happy just to see it flat out happen before May or June.

I agree too. I don't think Light Peak will be ready until 2011 at the earliest anyway. If Apple are going to use Light Peak I can't see them putting USB 3.0 in one revision of the Mac Pro just to remove it in place of Light Peak in the next.

I think that unfortunately we may be waiting until June simply because of Intel's supply issues. That meeting with AMD is probably to light a fire under Intel. Apple must be a big feather in Intel's cap even if they garner most of their sales from Windows boxes. They are not going to want to lose exclusivity with Apple.

[Deepshade]

I glanced quickly at a design mag while shopping at the weekend - article about workstations. Current MacPros listed as only just qualifying!! and the bottom of the range being the only one that's justifiable cost/performance against competition.

So its looks like Apple need to step up to the mark - or admit defeat for the pro performance end of the market. Maybe it'll be re named, the AppleBigMac (fills a space and the promo photos always look tempting) as MacPro no longer seems to be a title that is currently justifiable for anything else but the price bracket.

Much as I prefer using a Mac - I'm still convinced I'm not going to see anything worth the investment and I'm certainly going to start looking at the Hackintosh options very soon.

[xgman]

What would be Apple's reason not to include USB 3.0 in the next Mac Pro line-up?



This will not be supported until it is native on the Intel chipset. Think 2011 at the earliest. Lightpeak probably 2012 unfortunately. Apple is just not cutting edge on these sort of things.

[skyline r34]

I'm not going to speculate, just going to wait and see what's really going to be in the 2010 Mac Pro but I do hope that apple and evga will bring out the 480 GTX Mac Edition, while will on the subject I just checked out Apple online store and the 30" inch Cinema display now takes up to 5-7 business days to shipped my guess supplies are running low because the 30" inch normally ships in 24hrs and Apple may release the 27"inch LED soon or what ever size Apple is planning to bring out only time will tell

[2contagious]

Days since last update: 407 (Avg = 236)
hm.. almost double the average time it takes to update Mac Pros. What do you guys think: will it happen before WWDC?

[Wild-Bill]

Days since last update: 407 (Avg = 236)
hm.. almost double the average time it takes to update Mac Pros. What do you guys think: will it happen before WWDC?

When I was waiting for my Early 2008 Mac Pro, I believe the 'days since last update' was 514. YES. 514 days.

I was able to use Apple gift cards I got for Christmas 2006 and Christmas 2007.

We Early 08 owners waited a long time for that update. And it was a good one.

But Apple blew it again by charging outrageous sums for the 09 Mac Pro. The BTO options are a ripoff, the single-processor is a ripoff, etc etc etc...

[Umbongo]

Days since last update: 407 (Avg = 236)
hm.. almost double the average time it takes to update Mac Pros. What do you guys think: will it happen before WWDC?

That date they have includes things that have no relevence. The average time between new Mac Pro launches is 470 days, and even those times don't matter much as it is the time between Intel's launch and Apple's that has any real bearing on things.

[ValSalva]

That date they have includes things that have no relevence. The average time between new Mac Pro launches is 470 days, and even those times don't matter much as it is the time between Intel's launch and Apple's that has any real bearing on things.

Agreed. And Intel is having supply problems. I think it will be June at the earliest and possibly as late as WWDC's late June, early July date. I hope I'm wrong and it's earlier though ;)

[ildondeigiocchi]

Well the store is not down so forget about updates today. Let the waiting game continue ;)

[xgman]

Agreed. And Intel is having supply problems. I think it will be June at the earliest and possibly as late as WWDC's late June, early July date. I hope I'm wrong and it's earlier though ;)

I think you are correct.

[zeff]

Agreed. And Intel is having supply problems. I think it will be June at the earliest and possibly as late as WWDC's late June, early July date. I hope I'm wrong and it's earlier though ;)

Out of curiosity, what are the volumes that Apple needs to release the new Mac Pros?

[rajbonham]

Out of curiosity, what are the volumes that Apple needs to release the new Mac Pros?

No idea, but it appears that suppliers have been getting more and more of the new processors every day now.

I can't see anything happening for a few weeks so Apple can maximize the attention for the iPad 3G release. An early to mid May release seems to make sense. By then, the madness surrounding the iPad should be over and the processors should be in good supply.

[zeff]

No idea, but it appears that suppliers have been getting more and more of the new processors every day now.

I can't see anything happening for a few weeks so Apple can maximize the attention for the iPad 3G release. An early to mid May release seems to make sense. By then, the madness surrounding the iPad should be over and the processors should be in good supply.


Well, assuming that Apple is getting supply now of the low end (single processor) parts, they get an even smaller number of the higher speed (single processor) parts. Combine that with getting the larger volumes of the dual processor parts at the low speeds and smaller volumes of the higher clock speeds, and we get at least a few weeks to build up enough parts to span the product release offerings. On top of that any testing acceptance tests done by whoever does the assembly, and we would be looking at at least an end of May release.

Of course, that all depends on when Apple started getting volume parts at each speed.

Just a pure guess on my part.

[nanofrog]

Well, assuming that Apple is getting supply now of the low end (single processor) parts, they get an even smaller number of the higher speed (single processor) parts. Combine that with getting the larger volumes of the dual processor parts at the low speeds and smaller volumes of the higher clock speeds, and we get at least a few weeks to build up enough parts to span the product release offerings. On top of that any testing acceptance tests done by whoever does the assembly, and we would be looking at at least an end of May release.

Of course, that all depends on when Apple started getting volume parts at each speed.

Just a pure guess on my part.
For SP systems, there's only one Hex core part available right now, the W3680 (3.33GHz). Any others will be the 35xx family at the time of release.

DP is another matter, as there's an entire family (no need for the 55xx series). As per production quantities, it's hard to say right now, as they tend to stockpile quantity for their large scale orders (system vendors), and ship based on contracts. Retail packaged parts tend to take a backseat in the beginning to meet contractual obligations.

[Dr.Pants]

For SP systems, there's only one Hex core part available right now, the W3680 (3.33GHz). Any others will be the 35xx family at the time of release.

I may've said this before or it may've been buried in this thread, but I'm fairly certain that Apple is going wild hog for the daughterboard system so they have higher margins; in this case, for marketing technique, I would say that they're waiting for lower-clocked W36xxs to release for the MacPro to offer a steady lineup instead of a quad/hexa release for optimal PR.

Of course, just a gut feeling, but in my theory Apple is holding themselves back as Intel hasn't released a whole new line; Intel introduced a whole new line for the Nehalem release, but not for Gulftown (single-socket-parts). In the dual-socket realm, having differing clockspeeds was essential (as many server farms I imagine have electrical and heating profiles that they have to fit and the need for cores).

[nanofrog]

I may've said this before or it may've been buried in this thread, but I'm fairly certain that Apple is going wild hog for the daughterboard system so they have higher margins; in this case, for marketing technique, I would say that they're waiting for lower-clocked W36xxs to release for the MacPro to offer a steady lineup instead of a quad/hexa release for optimal PR.

Of course, just a gut feeling, but in my theory Apple is holding themselves back as Intel hasn't released a whole new line; Intel introduced a whole new line for the Nehalem release, but not for Gulftown (single-socket-parts). In the dual-socket realm, having differing clockspeeds was essential (as many server farms I imagine have electrical and heating profiles that they have to fit and the need for cores).
Not if they're trying to release systems in June, as the additional 2 SP/UP parts won't show up until Q4 2010 (slower clock), and Q1 2011 IIRC (fastest clock, apparently 3.46GHz). Definitely not by June 2010 however.

[rajbonham]

Just curious, will Apple be using the 5600 Series Hexacore Xeons in the new Mac Pros?

I randomly went over to Dell's site and checked out the workstations they have. I went to configure a system and it looks like they have all the various models of the Xeon 5600 processors available. If Dell has the processors widely available, surely we are getting close to a Mac Pro update?

Sorry if I'm way off, I'm a little bit clueless with all this processor stuff. :o

[Capt. Corduroy]

Mac Pro 2010 Wanted List:

• Blu-ray
• Another PCIe slot
• Built-in USB 3.0
• Built-in eSATA
• Better GPU options (reasonably priced)

None of which will happen.

[rajbonham]

I think you mean:

Mac Pro 2010 Wanted List:

• Blu-ray (Blu Ray is "A bag of hurt" :p)
• Another PCIe slot (Possible)
• Built-in USB 3.0 (No Way)
• Built-in eSATA (No way)
• Better GPU options (reasonably priced) (I suppose this is possible?)




Hey, 2 out of 5 for Apple isn't bad, right? :rolleyes:

[xgman]

Mac Pro 2010 Wanted List:

• Blu-ray
• Another PCIe slot
• Built-in USB 3.0
• Built-in eSATA
• Better GPU options (reasonably priced)

None of which will happen.

Here is my 2010 Mac Pro wanted list:

2010 Mac Pro. ;)

[Umbongo]

Just curious, will Apple be using the 5600 Series Hexacore Xeons in the new Mac Pros?

I randomly went over to Dell's site and checked out the workstations they have. I went to configure a system and it looks like they have all the various models of the Xeon 5600 processors available. If Dell has the processors widely available, surely we are getting close to a Mac Pro update?

Sorry if I'm way off, I'm a little bit clueless with all this processor stuff. :o

Yeah they should be. 3600 and 5600 if they continue with the current treatment. Dell and HP have had them for a bit now. Other than a leak with a date, product codes or Apple announcing them there isn't much more that could come for us to go on in regards to a release date.

[Murray M]

Mac Pro 2010 Wanted List:

• Blu-ray



I'm with you: I would love to see an Apple initiated HD distribution method. HOWEVER, I don't think it's in Apple best interest to move towards Blue Ray. From their perspective the disc is dead. Movies are following music to the harddrive. The near future is TVs with harddrives that wirelessly connect to computers. Blue ray is already dead.

What would be AWESOME is a ultra mobile AppleTV. A small multimedia hd that could be remote controlled and set up for auto functions (auto play, auto loop).

[rajbonham]

Here is my 2010 Mac Pro wanted list:

2010 Mac Pro. ;)

Hahaha, YES! I totally agree on that.

[nanofrog]

I'm with you: I would love to see an Apple initiated HD distribution method. HOWEVER, I don't think it's in Apple best interest to move towards Blue Ray. From their perspective the disc is dead. Movies are following music to the harddrive. The near future is TVs with harddrives that wirelessly connect to computers. Blue ray is already dead.

What would be AWESOME is a ultra mobile AppleTV. A small multimedia hd that could be remote controlled and set up for auto functions (auto play, auto loop).
Not really, as most consumers don't have access to adequate ISP bandwidths.

Not yet anyway, and the upgrades are slow in comming, as they're waiting for governmentally funded relocation of physical lines, such as highway expansion projects to cut their costs (makes permits much easier too).

In the end, it's all about increasing the bottom line. Gotta love how they get away with using tax dollars that way. :rolleyes:

[Icaras]

Here is my 2010 Mac Pro wanted list:

2010 Mac Pro. ;)

I love how your recent posts have went from curious speculation to straight, blunt, no BS demands :D

But I think that is starting to sum up the entire mood here. Just give it to us already, damnit.

[nanofrog]

I love how your recent posts have went from curious speculation to straight, blunt, no BS demands :D

But I think that is starting to sum up the entire mood here. Just give it to us already, damnit.
Granted, there could be technical reasons that have delayed the release (parts availability, new features resulting from new boards,...).

But personally, I'm starting to lean towards the idea that they scheduled the date around (hopefully between) the iPad and upcoming iPhone release dates to prevent it from distracting from those products. No matter how silent it is in comparison to either of those products in terms of press releases and marketing.

[Icaras]

Granted, there could be technical reasons that have delayed the release (parts availability, new features resulting from new boards,...).

But personally, I'm starting to lean towards the idea that they scheduled the date around (hopefully between) the iPad and upcoming iPhone release dates to prevent it from distracting from those products. No matter how silent it is in comparison to either of those products in terms of press releases and marketing.

This is the most logical reason I can think of too. Note how the MBPs were also released in between the subsequent iPad launches. I've stated before that I just see absolutely no place on the show floor at WWDC for the Mac Pro, even if they did something a bit more substantial, like a design change, USB 3, or what have you.

I seriously think making any public announcement about the Mac Pro would likely backfire on Apple. I think announcing to a room full of developers that your company now offers several month old processors is one of the last things they would want to do. Any other, unexpected updates to the MP would simply be underminded by their prolongued tardiness.

[nanofrog]

This is the most logical reason I can think of too. Note how the MBPs were also released in between the subsequent iPad launches. I've stated before that I just see absolutely no place on the show floor at WWDC for the Mac Pro, even if they did something a bit more substantial, like a design change, USB 3, or what have you.

I seriously think making any public announcement about the Mac Pro would likely backfire on Apple. I think announcing to a room full of developers that your company now offers several month old processors is one of the last things they would want to do. Any other, unexpected updates to the MP would simply be underminded by their prolongued tardiness.
They don't really care about various events to release products like they used too, according to a front page article some months back.

It seems to me they're simply concerned that a simultaneous product release would negatively affect the initial sales volume by muddling the focus. Single product releases have no interference that can reduce sales, and afterall, they want $$$ ASAP. ;)

As far as being tardy with the MP, it's a workstation, not a consumer model, and it's not unheard of for the systems to ship after the official release date of the CPU models that go in them (by a couple of months, so a May release isn't going to be that critical).

But it doesn't hurt to get them out quicker than the competition to garner a few additional sales and some marketing prestige as well.

So if Apple suddenly announced the next MP now with product ready to ship, they'd not be affected as you might think (not tardy, nor undermine them).

Now if they don't release until something like September of this year, that would be a really embarassing foul-up (using existing parts, not an early release of the Sandy Bridge line). :eek: :p

[xgman]

Now if they don't release until something like September of this year, that would be a really embarassing foul-up . :eek: :p

I have this sinking feeling. :(

[xgman]

I love how your recent posts have went from curious speculation to straight, blunt, no BS demands :D

But I think that is starting to sum up the entire mood here. Just give it to us already, damnit.

This situation has absolutely nothing to do with other products or events period. I've come to the conclusion that the problem is with the cpu parts availability even aside from the article today regarding the possibility of September before the intel parts are available in quantity. With rumors of shortages or non existent parts in the marketplace, I'm sure this is effecting Apple in some manner. I just wish we had a time frame from Apple to go by and I could make some sort of decision here. It's extremely frustrating. It would be so easy to order up a 980x system right now. :confused:

[sOid]

I just wish we had a time frame from Apple to go by and I could make some sort of decision here. It's extremely frustrating. It would be so easy to order up a 980x system right now. :confused:

Couldn't agree more. My current Mac is really falling apart. It would be awful if it breaks down before the new MacPro's are available. I really don't know what I'd buy then... Probably go Hackintosh.

[GiantDolphin]

It just doesn't add up to me. How could it be a supply problem when Dell is selling 6-core and 12-core workstations with the new Xeons? They don't seem to have a supply problem.

[beaker7]

It just doesn't add up to me. How could it be a supply problem when Dell is selling 6-core and 12-core workstations with the new Xeons? They don't seem to have a supply problem.

Are they delivering them? Or taking orders?

[rajbonham]

It just doesn't add up to me. How could it be a supply problem when Dell is selling 6-core and 12-core workstations with the new Xeons? They don't seem to have a supply problem.

I agree. At this point, it seems now that the new processors are in good supply, it is all about timing. Even though the markets for the Mac Pro and iPad are completely different, there is no way Apple is going to kill any of the buzz around the iPad 3G release.

I would expect the Mac Pro update anytime during May, right in between the iPad 3G release and iPhone announcement.

[GiantDolphin]

Are they delivering them? Or taking orders?

I am seeing a May 4 shipping date on a 12-core I just built on their website.

[nanofrog]

I am seeing a May 4 shipping date on a 12-core I just built on their website.
Which means they've parts in-hand (CPU's), as the base system assembly is done overseas these days (just as it is with Apple or any other vendor). They have to assemble and ship it (assembly may even be in 2x stages; main board and case overseas, options added in the US - Houston, TX in this case).

[reel2reel]

Jeez, you guys go on and on like we live in some impoverished country. What is so BAD about the current Mac Pro's? This thread was supposed to be about someone happy about a new Mac Purchase, then it gets hijacked into a whinefest about waiting for the next release.

Do any of you actually have any work to do?? Or is there a ton of people out there that just have loads of cash to buy new computers and nothing to do?

And guess what happens a couple months after the new Mac Pro's hit the shelves: people wondering about when the next rev is coming out, etc, etc, etc. It never ever ends...

[Icaras]

...This thread was supposed to be about someone happy about a new Mac Purchase, then it gets hijacked into a whinefest about waiting for the next release...

Me thinks you ought to re-read the thread title a bit more carefully :rolleyes:

[surferfromuk]

Jeez, you guys go on and on like we live in some impoverished country. What is so BAD about the current Mac Pro's? This thread was supposed to be about someone happy about a new Mac Purchase, then it gets hijacked into a whinefest about waiting for the next release.

Do any of you actually have any work to do?? Or is there a ton of people out there that just have loads of cash to buy new computers and nothing to do?

And guess what happens a couple months after the new Mac Pro's hit the shelves: people wondering about when the next rev is coming out, etc, etc, etc. It never ever ends...

I'm guessing your some kind of millionaire who doesn't need to consider practical lifespan of a major investment?

So when you come to replace your next Mac Pro (which you obviously don't need to right now) will you ensure that you wait an additional 14 months from that initial purchase decision date, and only then purchase it.

When they start shipping the newer updated model the very week after your 14 month old model arrives please do not whine about it.

Most peoples exact problem is they have a ton of work to do but struggle on with current ageing tech to avoid feel narked about buying last years tech at todays prices - millionaires, it seems, don't seem too bothered either way.

[rajbonham]

Most peoples exact problem is they have a ton of work to do but struggle on with current ageing tech to avoid feel narked about buying last years tech at todays prices - millionaires, it seems, don't seem too bothered either way.

I think this describes every single person (except reel2reel) who has posted in this thread. Well said my friend. :)

[masmullin]

The current low-end MP are about $1500 more expensive than a comparatively priced windows machine, $1650 more than a linux/no-OS-installed machine (you can get one for about $1250 now).

Sure you dont get the nice OSX nor the nice layout of the MP case, but I dont think those two things are worth 1650smackers.

The low end MP should cost about $2100. I think $350 price for OSX is reasonable $300 for the case is reasonable (cheap lowend case is about 75$.. so the total cost of the mac case is $375) and $200 for the brand name.

Unfortunately Apple seems to think they can sell the low end MP for $2900CND.

[xgman]

Jeez, you guys go on and on like we live in some impoverished country. What is so BAD about the current Mac Pro's?

Nothing at all, but we wish to buy new ones, plain and simple. If your ready to buy and a new model is just about here, then that's what you want. No mystery.

[xgman]

Leaks about a new mac pro have come to a complete halt. I'd even take a false rumor just about now. :D

[Ravich]

My dad's cousin works for apple and he says they will be out the tuesday after next. Or the next one after that, I dont remember.

[rajbonham]

My dad's cousin works for apple and he says they will be out the tuesday after next. Or the next one after that, I dont remember.

I want to believe you, but things like this: "Or the next one after that, I dont remember", make it hard to for me. :rolleyes:

[Nostromo]

My dad's cousin works for apple and he says they will be out the tuesday after next. Or the next one after that, I dont remember.

So you are posting this every week?

There's always a "next Tuesday" ;)

[Kissaragi]

They could at least bump the specs on the current mac pros, 1tb hard drives, double the ram and better graphics card options would be lovely.

[ValSalva]

My dad's cousin works for apple and he says they will be out the tuesday after next. Or the next one after that, I dont remember.

Aren't Apple employees usually the last ones to leak this kind of alleged information?

[GiantDolphin]

Aren't Apple employees usually the last ones to leak this kind of alleged information?

i think this was meant as a joke to xgman's request for even a false rumor. :confused:

[ValSalva]

i think this was meant as a joke to xgman's request for even a false rumor. :confused:

My thinking is too literal today :rolleyes:

[sOid]

So ehm, has anyone here send mr Jobs an email with questions about the new MacPro?

He seems pretty responsive lately, so it might be worth a try...

[xgman]

So ehm, has anyone here send mr Jobs an email with questions about the new MacPro?

He seems pretty responsive lately, so it might be worth a try...

yup and nada. maybe if enough people sent one. . . .

[afrowq]

I just emailed the following to Jobs:

Dear Mr. Jobs,

I'm a filmmaker and video artist. The itoys are cute and all, but I really need a new Mac Pro that's reasonably priced. There's been exactly one update to the Mac Pro line in the last 28 months. It seems the professional equipment and professional clientele Apple used to be known for catering to have fallen by the wayside.

Can you please either:

1) Update the Mac Pro line
or
2) License Final Cut Studio for use on other operating systems so I can get some work done


Thank you very much,

-A Lifelong Professional MACINTOSH User.

[RubbishBBspeed]

I just emailed the following to Jobs:

Dear Mr. Jobs,

I'm a filmmaker and video artist. The itoys are cute and all, but I really need a new Mac Pro that's reasonably priced. There's been exactly one update to the Mac Pro line in the last 28 months. It seems the professional equipment and professional clientele Apple used to be known for catering to have fallen by the wayside.

Can you please either:

1) Update the Mac Pro line
or
2) License Final Cut Studio for use on other operating systems so I can get some work done


Thank you very much,

-A Lifelong Professional MACINTOSH User.


I'm in total agrement with you, I watched the Doctor who confidential episodes a few days back and noticed not a single Mac on any of the desks. All the video, graphics, digital models, sound. etc where done on Dell systems.

I'd hat to think that the Mac Pro line is Dead but apple certainly don't seem to be bothered in even suggesting of a date for the release.

Could it be Apple can't make the new intel chips work???? going by there recent history of releasing early products with faults included as standard. Maybe Apple realise, to release the Mac Pro with problems would destroy there high-end machine for the Pro's reputation.

Personally I'm holding out but even the most resilient Mac supporters can only take so much abuse.

[xgman]

You know with all the secrecy tactics that may or may not help Apple with it's iProducts lines, they would actually be wise to let some info out about the new Mac pros. It would go along way towards keeping us interested. A lack of info doesn't really work here.

[nanofrog]

You know with all the secrecy tactics that may or may not help Apple with it's iProducts lines, they would actually be wise to let some info out about the new Mac pros. It would go along way towards keeping us interested. A lack of info doesn't really work here.
Definitely. :)

They should orchestrate a "leak", or risk the loss of sales as users may begin to take serious looks at the competition (total switch-over) or even hack those systems to run OS X (independents would be more willing to consider this method).

[sOid]

Definitely. :)

They should orchestrate a "leak",...

Maybe some guy could bring a MacPro prototype to a bar and... well, you know what I'm about to say ;)

[Raytrace]

Maybe some guy could bring a MacPro prototype to a bar and... well, you know what I'm about to say ;)

Yeah, a Mac Pro walks into a bar...?

[macusersince5]

I just emailed the following to Jobs:

Dear Mr. Jobs,

I'm a filmmaker and video artist. The itoys are cute and all, but I really need a new Mac Pro that's reasonably priced. There's been exactly one update to the Mac Pro line in the last 28 months. It seems the professional equipment and professional clientele Apple used to be known for catering to have fallen by the wayside.

Can you please either:

1) Update the Mac Pro line
or
2) License Final Cut Studio for use on other operating systems so I can get some work done


Thank you very much,

-A Lifelong Professional MACINTOSH User.

you should have added make 64 bit final cut studio too and make it fast and make it a better comparable like (omg i'm gonna get chewed for this) similar adobe products. FCP is lagging behind in development compared to adobe premier and after effects. And soundtrack pro is buggy.

[J the Ninja]

you should have added make 64 bit final cut studio too and make it fast and make it a better comparable like (omg i'm gonna get chewed for this) similar adobe products. FCP is lagging behind in development compared to adobe premier and after effects. And soundtrack pro is buggy.

FCP's codebase is an ancient, creaky mess. Who knows how long they have been trying to sort it out for? The fast, 64bit FCP won't be coming 'till it's done, that's for sure. Hopefully the end of this year. And some combined DVD/Blu-ray/iTunes Extras authoring tool. Call it "Sideshow" or something.

[Cavepainter]

Hello, everyone. This is my first posting.

I found a dusty piece of paper the other day with my scribbled specs from the Mac Pro I almost bought last summer. Ironically enough, it has pretty much the same exact specs as what Apple is selling on their website today. For the same price tag as it was LAST YEAR.

I work in the animation biz in LA. I use Photoshop, After Effects, Flash, Toonboom Harmony, illustrator, as well as a small number of other motion graphics applications. I'm also plenty busy doing freelance animation BG design and art direction from my own small studio at home in the evenings. Thats where the Mac Pro comes in. I guess you could say I'm the target market of the Mac Pro.

I usually try to buy hardware that will remain on the cutting edge for a year or two past my intended upgrade date.... it needs to be upgradeable and expandable as my needs grow. That usually means a Mac Pro. But I will not buy last year's technology at today's prices.

I have friends in the animation biz who have unfortunately been driven to look elsewhere for their hardware solutions, and more professional users are doing it every day. (I'm gonna be one of them.)

Why doesn't the price ever come down on the Mac Pro models? Can't Apple at least throw us a bone and offer upgraded specs, like a better graphics card, or more memory, or a larger hard drive? What kind of a flagship computer lags behind the home-user's Imac i7 in specs and performance on some models? How can the Mac Pro justify such a price increase? Are they kidding?

I agree with a previous poster that Apple REALLY needs to drop a hint and leak something about the next Pro (if they're ever planning on doing one!) or they risk losing their high- end customers forever. I have no choice but to look elsewhere.

[bluesteel]

I just emailed the following to Jobs:

Dear Mr. Jobs,

I'm a filmmaker and video artist. The itoys are cute and all, but I really need a new Mac Pro that's reasonably priced. There's been exactly one update to the Mac Pro line in the last 28 months. It seems the professional equipment and professional clientele Apple used to be known for catering to have fallen by the wayside.

Can you please either:

1) Update the Mac Pro line
or
2) License Final Cut Studio for use on other operating systems so I can get some work done


Thank you very much,

-A Lifelong Professional MACINTOSH User.


absolutely awesome. i agree with you 100%. great letter!! i also emailed steve jobs a few weeks ago with similar comments.

[Icaras]

I found a dusty piece of paper the other day with my scribbled specs from the Mac Pro I almost bought last summer. Ironically enough, it has pretty much the same exact specs as what Apple is selling on their website today. For the same price tag as it was LAST YEAR.

Why doesn't the price ever come down on the Mac Pro models? Can't Apple at least throw us a bone and offer upgraded specs, like a better graphics card, or more memory, or a larger hard drive? What kind of a flagship computer lags behind the home-user's Imac i7 in specs and performance on some models? How can the Mac Pro justify such a price increase? Are they kidding?

Not really ironic, as this is how Apple usually operates its Mac hardware business. Rarely are there ever "price drops". If any price drops do occur, it's usually CTO upgrades that are quietly price dropped.

But you're still right. They should have at least dropped the price by now. It's totally ridiculous they've kept the prices up this high, even after Intel released the new chips.

If anything, a price drop, would at least be indicative of an imminent release of a new Mac Pro, something that is quite natural in business where companies clear out inventory by dropping prices on current models to make way for the newer machines.

Alas, Apple does not seem to operate "traditionally". :mad:

[GiantDolphin]

Hello, everyone. This is my first posting.

I have friends in the animation biz who have unfortunately been driven to look elsewhere for their hardware solutions, and more professional users are doing it every day. (I'm gonna be one of them.)


I am in the exact same boat. Animator/filmmaker in LA. Need to replace my MP 1,1 but cannot possibly seriously consider the current Mac Pro. Before the Windows 7 release it was a pretty easy decision to wait for any Mac Pro update, but not so much anymore. Looks like I might be heading back over the fence, especially because it is looking more and more like Apple is starting to write off this portion of the market, which makes me nervous about investing in their hardware going into the future.

[anim8or]

It seems we are in the same boat..... Professional Film/Video/Animators....

Perhaps we can organise a mass email to Stev Jobs... if his inbox is filled with 100s of email about the mac pro i am sure he will egt the point and perhaps throw us a bone??

Does anyone feel like organsising this? I would but I am in work right now... currently waiting on a render to finish.... hence the time to read some threads.

[sOid]

It seems we are in the same boat..... Professional Film/Video/Animators....

Perhaps we can organise a mass email to Stev Jobs... if his inbox is filled with 100s of email about the mac pro i am sure he will egt the point and perhaps throw us a bone??

Does anyone feel like organsising this? I would but I am in work right now... currently waiting on a render to finish.... hence the time to read some threads.
I'm not sure if that's such a good idea tbh. It might have the opposite effect.

He might be annoyed by the emails, and thus deciding he'll delay the release even longer. I know it's far-fetched, but I really do think he's capable of doing such a thing.

[anim8or]

I'm not sure if that's such a good idea tbh. It might have the opposite effect.

He might be annoyed by the emails, and thus deciding he'll delay the release even longer. I know it's far-fetched, but I really do think he's capable of doing such a thing.

I somewhat agree that he is capable of such a move but right now i am desperate enough and angry at the lack of information i am willing to risk it!

PS What address does everybody use to email Steve Jobs??

[sOid]

I somewhat agree that he is capable of such a move but right now i am desperate enough and angry at the lack of information i am willing to risk it!

PS Waht address does everyubody use to email Steve Jobs??

Yeah, me too. I guess. My current Mac is literally held together by duct tape :P

I think the address is: sjobs@apple.com, but I'm not sure.

edit: yep, that's it. See http://www.9to5mac.com/Jobs-mac-store-negative-ghostrider-593035053

[surferfromuk]

Here's what I think has actually happened;

With the release of Avid 5 & Adobe CS5, Final Cut Studio is no longer the top of the heap.

Literally overnight it's suddenly (arguably) in third place!

Now on top of that we have the Mac Pro - (one possible gateway to Final Cut Studio)

Aside from being outgunned, the hardware is now 50% too expensive for 12 month old tech.

Combine these two factors and Apple have literally in the last 6 weeks entirely lost their 5 year lead in the Pro market.

OSX is their only value proposition left. I've not used Windows 7 and I'm seriously loathed to - that factor alone is stopping me jumping - I'm like a stick of Apple rock through and through, but I'm considering looking into it - what professional wouldn't?

They need to at the very least pre-announce the new Mac Pro right now and accept pre-orders - even if it won't ship for 6-8 weeks (just like they do with iPad/iPhone) - just to stop the mass exodus that's going to start in 2 weeks time.

Right now I can purchase CS5 and a crazy fast Windows PC for the same price as today's Mac Pro - that's a real dilemma.

Apple could see huge chunks of their Pro market gone in 6-9 months if they're not careful.

With a nice new Mac Pro I'll be prepared to wait 6-9 months for FCS4 - but right now 18 months of pent-up 'backed-up wannabe Mac Pro upgrades are wondering - 'what should I do next with my dollars!'. If they jump Apple Pro division is in big trouble.

[GiantDolphin]

Okay, so I sent Mr. Jobs an email. I got a reply! :eek:

His response was thus:

"Let them eat cake."

Does anybody know what this means???



:mad:
(sarcasm)

[anim8or]

Okay, so I sent Mr. Jobs an email. I got a reply! :eek:

His response was thus:

"Let them eat cake."

Does anybody know what this means???



:mad:
(sarcasm)

What did your email say??

It would be easier to speculate on what this response actually means if we knew exactly what you wrote....

[you39]

What did your email say??

It would be easier to speculate on what this response actually means if we knew exactly what you wrote....

That was a joke, obviously...;) It's a reference to Marie Antoinette or so. Who is supposed to have said it to a subject who told her that his or her children were starving. Because they had no bread. Something like that.

[you39]

And the store is... up.

What a surprise. ;)

[GiantDolphin]

What did your email say??


"Dear Mr. Jobs: The citizens of Macland... they have no 32nm architecture. They hunger for an update to the Mac Pro line. Please, what shall be done?"

:rolleyes:

[SadChief]

What did your email say??

It would be easier to speculate on what this response actually means if we knew exactly what you wrote....

"If they don't have bread, let them eat cake" - is what allegedly Queen of France Marie Antoinette had said in response to hungry people riots on the verge of the French revolution (1789).
This report is a HISTORICAL FAKE (she never said that), but her detractors made it up for political reasons.

Mr. Jobs might have meant that available Mac Pro's are good enough for professional purposes.

[anim8or]

Yes... I am aware of what the quote means, but it would bear a different meaning depending on what it is in response to....

My sarcasm radar isnt in tune today it seems!

[SadChief]

Yes... I am aware of what the quote means, but it would bear a different meaning depending on what it is in response to....

My sarcasm radar isnt in tune today it seems!

I think that Mr. Jobs is very subtle when suggesting that today's Mac Pro users beg for new Mac Pro's as French people begged for bread more that two centuries ago.
It might also suggest that thinking pattern at Apple's top hierarchy ("the Queen") is not the same as that prevailing at the "people's level" (Mac Pro users).
They know better, so stop whining :p

[chaosbunny]

Mr. Jobs might have meant that available Mac Pro's are good enough for professional purposes.

That's certainly true, but so are systems from other vendors which offer similar or faster performance for 50% less money...

If that response really is true it makes me even more disappointed.

[you39]

Mr. Jobs might have meant that available Mac Pro's are good enough for professional purposes.

Sure... but for how long?

[foidulus]

you should have added make 64 bit final cut studio too and make it fast and make it a better comparable like (omg i'm gonna get chewed for this) similar adobe products. FCP is lagging behind in development compared to adobe premier and after effects. And soundtrack pro is buggy.

FCP won't go 64 bit until 10.7 at the earliest, Apple's 64 bit QuickTime API, QTKit, is pretty pathetic and what it doesn't do outnumbers what it does do by about 10:1 and then to add insult to injury, most of the things it does do it accomplishes by branching off a separate 32 bit process. Apple needs to get working on QTKit, much like it needs to release a new mac pro like yesterday....

[xgman]

Here's what I think has actually happened;

With the release of Avid 5 & Adobe CS5, Final Cut Studio is no longer the top of the heap.

Literally overnight it's suddenly (arguably) in third place!

Now on top of that we have the Mac Pro - (one possible gateway to Final Cut Studio)

Aside from being outgunned, the hardware is now 50% too expensive for 12 month old tech.

Combine these two factors and Apple have literally in the last 6 weeks entirely lost their 5 year lead in the Pro market.

OSX is their only value proposition left. I've not used Windows 7 and I'm seriously loathed to - that factor alone is stopping me jumping - I'm like a stick of Apple rock through and through, but I'm considering looking into it - what professional wouldn't?

They need to at the very least pre-announce the new Mac Pro right now and accept pre-orders - even if it won't ship for 6-8 weeks (just like they do with iPad/iPhone) - just to stop the mass exodus that's going to start in 2 weeks time.

Right now I can purchase CS5 and a crazy fast Windows PC for the same price as today's Mac Pro - that's a real dilemma.

Apple could see huge chunks of their Pro market gone in 6-9 months if they're not careful.

With a nice new Mac Pro I'll be prepared to wait 6-9 months for FCS4 - but right now 18 months of pent-up 'backed-up wannabe Mac Pro upgrades are wondering - 'what should I do next with my dollars!'. If they jump Apple Pro division is in big trouble.


Totally agree. Short sighted marketing approach and serious misstep on Apple's part if this goes on for much longer. They are obviously not paying any attention to the pro markets needs or desires at this stage. From a business point of view this may make economic sense to them, but it is a slap in the face to the old guard mac base. If only they would just license OSX out. Seems like they would make more money on that than on all the mac pros and imacs put together.

[Icaras]

The king must let his peasants have their Mac Pros now!

[ValSalva]

"Let them eat cake." :D

I think that's good news. In my opinion he's mocking the view that he's some sort of king of Macland. He's aping Marie Antoinette as a good natured jab at the Mac faithful. Let us eat cake. He's kidding. He's more likely to kid around if he knows that there is something in the pipeline that would make his customers happy.

I don't think he'd intentionally come across as a jerk saying in effect: "to hell with you all" if there were not a new Mac Pro update imminent. Of course imminent could be June.

And of course this could just be my biased rationalization :rolleyes:

[TennisandMusic]

GiantDolphin, he didn't really reply that way, correct? You are only joking.

[Murray M]

"Let them eat cake." :D

I think that's good news. In my opinion he's mocking the view that he's some sort of king of Macland. He's aping Marie Antoinette as a good natured jab at the Mac faithful. Let us eat cake. He's kidding. He's more likely to kid around if he knows that there is something in the pipeline that would make his customers happy.

I don't think he'd intentionally come across as a jerk saying in effect: "to hell with you all" if there were not a new Mac Pro update imminent. Of course imminent could be June.

And of course this could just be my biased rationalization :rolleyes:

I suspect Mr Jobs is too busy to follow this forum. However, if he is here, I bet he's cracking up.

[xgman]

I suspect Mr Jobs is too busy to follow this forum. However, if he is here, I bet he's cracking up.

If he followed this forum he would have probably hung himself by now. :eek:

[GiantDolphin]

GiantDolphin, he didn't really reply that way, correct? You are only joking.

Dang. I'm sorry people. I was only joking. Steve Jobs did not actually really write that, nor did I really email him. I apologize if my joke did not play well. :o Sarcastic humor can be a tricky business in any medium. :rolleyes:

cheers!

[Cavepainter]

.....well.....at least I got the Marie Antoinette joke....:D

[ValSalva]

Dang. I'm sorry people. I was only joking. Steve Jobs did not actually really write that, nor did I really email him. I apologize if my joke did not play well. :o Sarcastic humor can be a tricky business in any medium. :rolleyes:

cheers!

I'm so darn gullible. :o

At least by the time new MPs come out the price of SSDs will be lower :rolleyes:

[xgman]

I'm so darn gullible. :o

At least by the time new MPs come out the price of SSDs will be lower :rolleyes:

No, they will be obsolete . . .

[xgman]

exactly what I've been saying all along about Apple secrecy about new products and how it may hurt them in the end:

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/195067/how_apple_secrecy_hurts_business_customers.html

[surferfromuk]

Totally agree. Short sighted marketing approach and serious misstep on Apple's part if this goes on for much longer. They are obviously not paying any attention to the pro markets needs or desires at this stage. From a business point of view this may make economic sense to them, but it is a slap in the face to the old guard mac base. If only they would just license OSX out. Seems like they would make more money on that than on all the mac pros and imacs put together.



http://gizmodo.com/5525334/amds-300-6+core-cpu-too-good-to-be-true

Imagine a nice new entry level Mac Pro with 4 AMD '6 cores' in it for the price of one intel bad boy. If Apple want to make a stink, this is how I'd do it...

[Icaras]

exactly what I've been saying all along about Apple secrecy about new products and how it may hurt them in the end:

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/195067/how_apple_secrecy_hurts_business_customers.html

That was a great read and most definitely rings true in their Mac sector.

I think their consumer devices can remain in the iron curtain, just because the culture of secrecy works so well for that type of market. That, and it is commonly known when the seasons begin when all these types of devices are updated (i.e: WWDC: iphone, September music event: iphone, etc..)

Macs are just a different story. I don't see the benefit of Apple shielding information from their consumers on their computer line. Little, patented, and inventive things, such as the unibody design, and the single button, multitouch, glass trackpad can still be kept secret, but theres no reason not to inform customers of when these updated models will occur next and with what particular CPUs and GPUs it may come with.

Sheesh, even a general time frame like "Spring of 2010" can go a long way in satisfying customers.

[ValSalva]

That was a great read and most definitely rings true in their Mac sector.

I think their consumer devices can remain in the iron curtain, just because the culture of secrecy works so well for that type of market. That, and it is commonly known when the seasons begin when all these types of devices are updated (i.e: WWDC: iphone, September music event: iphone, etc..)

Macs are just a different story. I don't see the benefit of Apple shielding information from their consumers on their computer line. Little, patented, and inventive things, such as the unibody design, and the single button, multitouch, glass trackpad can still be kept secret, but theres no reason not to inform customers of when these updated models will occur next and with what particular CPUs and GPUs it may come with.

Sheesh, even a general time frame like "Spring of 2010" can go a long way in satisfying customers.

I completely agree. People fill the vacuum of non-information with all kinds of doubts and end up buying something else, namely Windows. As the article says: "Apple is literally grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory." So true.

[TennisandMusic]

Dang. I'm sorry people. I was only joking. Steve Jobs did not actually really write that, nor did I really email him. I apologize if my joke did not play well. :o Sarcastic humor can be a tricky business in any medium. :rolleyes:

cheers!

For what it's worth I was sure you were sarcastic until multiple people were taking it literally...then I got confused and needed confirmation of my original take on things. :p

[VirtualRain]

That was a great read and most definitely rings true in their Mac sector.

I think their consumer devices can remain in the iron curtain, just because the culture of secrecy works so well for that type of market. That, and it is commonly known when the seasons begin when all these types of devices are updated (i.e: WWDC: iphone, September music event: iphone, etc..)

Macs are just a different story. I don't see the benefit of Apple shielding information from their consumers on their computer line. Little, patented, and inventive things, such as the unibody design, and the single button, multitouch, glass trackpad can still be kept secret, but theres no reason not to inform customers of when these updated models will occur next and with what particular CPUs and GPUs it may come with.

Sheesh, even a general time frame like "Spring of 2010" can go a long way in satisfying customers.

I disagree with the PC World article. Businesses don't hang on every rumor or tidbit of news about new products in their IT decision making... give me a break.

BTW, Isn't the lack of a Mac Pro update most likely attributed to a shortage of Intel 6-core CPU's?

If so, they may not be able to provide a time line and even if they could, it would be foolish to announce an update until they can start shipping, otherwise they risk cannibalizing revenues on existing models.

Keep in mind that the bleeding edge enthusiasts who frequent this forum are far from the mainstream Apple pro customer. Your needs and desires are NOT representative of the average pro shop who just orders a new Mac Pro whenever they need one and doesn't follow this thread daily to find out if the refresh is this Tuesday or next.

[VirtualRain]

I completely agree. People fill the vacuum of non-information with all kinds of doubts and end up buying something else, namely Windows. As the article says: "Apple is literally grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory." So true.

Again, you guys need to understand that the typical Mac Pro customer is a creative shop that is heavily invested in training, software, and IT resources around supporting OSX. When they need a new Mac Pro, they will just order one - whatever is available at the time. Their IT staff are not on here every day trying to figure out when the next product refresh is happening. That's completely irrelevant to most real customers... And no such organization is going to switch over to WinTel just because a refresh is overdue.

[TennisandMusic]

I disagree with the PC World article. Businesses don't hang on every rumor or tidbit of news about new products in their IT decision making... give me a break.

BTW, Isn't the lack of a Mac Pro update most likely attributed to a shortage of Intel 6-core CPU's?

If so, they may not be able to provide a time line and even if they could, it would be foolish to announce an update until they can start shipping, otherwise they risk cannibalizing revenues on existing models.

Keep in mind that the bleeding edge enthusiasts who frequent this forum are far from the mainstream Apple pro customer. Your needs and desires are NOT representative of the average pro shop who just orders a new Mac Pro whenever they need one and doesn't follow this thread daily to find out if the refresh is this Tuesday or next.

To your first bolded comment, you are correct. Which is why Apple is not used. People don't want to hang on tidbits of rumors. They want vendors telling them where and when to expect products and updates. Not a huge veil of mystery behind everything.

To your second bolded comment, no that is not why. Other companies are shipping products with these cpu's and you can buy them readily "on the street."

[TennisandMusic]

Again, you guys need to understand that the typical Mac Pro customer is a creative shop that is heavily invested in training, software, and IT resources around supporting OSX. When they need a new Mac Pro, they will just order one - whatever is available at the time. Their IT staff are not on here every day trying to figure out when the next product refresh is happening. That's completely irrelevant to most real customers... And no such organization is going to switch over to WinTel just because a refresh is overdue.

Really? There are people who have claimed to see groups doing just that: Switching to Windows.

Budgets are important. Hardware quality is important. Choices are important.

Do you really think there are loads of "creative shops" that have no concern for these things, and are hell bent on using OSX? If so, could you name a few? Real creative people focus on results, not adhering to a strict set of tools, especially when said tools are generally cross platform.

[VirtualRain]

Are there any 6-core Xeon's over 2.8GHz shipping? I only see entry level hexacore CPU's around. It's very possible that yields on the higher clocked parts are pitiful and Intel is having difficulty meeting demands of it's top-tier customers.

BTW, our company uses an agency which is heavy on OSX and FCP and they have a mix of Mac Pro's from 2006, 2008 and 2009 and while these guys are very technically minded, they don't make a new machine purchase decision based on Apple's refresh cycle. If they hire a new FCP editor, they will buy a new Mac Pro for him that day, whatever Apple is selling at the time. I can guarantee they are not going "Jeez... Apple is a few weeks late on the 2010 Mac Pro refresh, we should hire an Avid guy and get him a Windows workstation instead"

[TennisandMusic]

Are there any 6-core Xeon's over 2.8GHz shipping? I only see entry level hexacore CPU's around. It's very possible that yields on the higher clocked parts are pitiful and Intel is having difficulty meeting demands of it's top-tier customers.

BTW, our company uses an agency which is heavy on OSX and FCP and they have a mix of Mac Pro's from 2006, 2008 and 2009 and while these guys are very technically minded, they don't make a new machine purchase decision based on Apple's refresh cycle. If they hire a new FCP editor, they will buy a new Mac Pro for him that day, whatever Apple is selling at the time. I can guarantee they are not going "Jeez... Apple is a few weeks late on the 2010 Mac Pro refresh, we should hire an Avid guy and get him a Windows workstation instead"

Sure, that makes sense, but that's also quite anecdotal. I think if you look at the numbers you will see that Apple's influence in business is near nil, and there is a reason for that. I think the linked article is pretty reasonable. I know I agree with it pretty much.

[ValSalva]

Again, you guys need to understand that the typical Mac Pro customer is a creative shop that is heavily invested in training, software, and IT resources around supporting OSX. When they need a new Mac Pro, they will just order one - whatever is available at the time. Their IT staff are not on here every day trying to figure out when the next product refresh is happening. That's completely irrelevant to most real customers... And no such organization is going to switch over to WinTel just because a refresh is overdue.

I agree that this represents the current Mac Pro customer. But this article focuses on future growth. Be it the Mac Pro (less likely) or iMacs and MacBook Pros in businesses, Apple's secrecy is not helping it gain more of a foothold in corporate IT. But then again, maybe Apple doesn't care, that's not their target.

[GiantDolphin]

Are there any 6-core Xeon's over 2.8GHz shipping?

Yes. Over at Dell for example -- up to 3.33GHz 6-core 5680 Xeons are shipping now, also in dual CPU configurations for 12 core machines. Shipping takes about 10 days.

[Icaras]

I disagree with the PC World article. Businesses don't hang on every rumor or tidbit of news about new products in their IT decision making... give me a break.

I'm not saying businesses are glued to Macrumors everyday to stay up to date on news. I am agreeing with what the article is saying, that Microsoft, in stark contrast to Apple's culture, is a very open and inviting company, and business like that. They want, like the article states, "road maps" to future tech.

BTW, Isn't the lack of a Mac Pro update most likely attributed to a shortage of Intel 6-core CPU's?

If so, they may not be able to provide a time line and even if they could, it would be foolish to announce an update until they can start shipping, otherwise they risk cannibalizing revenues on existing models.

I think they've been doing worse than cannibalizing sales. I see people here every day talking about going PC or going hackintosh.

And just because a company can announce a new product, doesn't mean that they need to designate an exact ETA.

Like I've asked before, what harm could it do for Apple for them to simply say "Spring 2010"? It's better than nothing, and I agree with the article that businesses definitely appreciate the heads up. Who wants to deal with a computer company that holds everything close to its chest? I'd never realize I'd be giving good words to Microsoft, but they have an openness in the way they work, which equals to good mutual respect between them and business companies. Apple's secrecy and paranoia is more like they trust no one. Which company wants to deal with that?

Keeping your customers informed really, really helps.

Keep in mind that the bleeding edge enthusiasts who frequent this forum are far from the mainstream Apple pro customer. Your needs and desires are NOT representative of the average pro shop who just orders a new Mac Pro whenever they need one and doesn't follow this thread daily to find out if the refresh is this Tuesday or next.

I am not narrowing this down to bleeding edge enthusiasts, or fanboys high off Apple tech. But I would guess that businesses too can easily discern between today's tech with 14 month old tech, and the price tags that are associated with them. It doesn't take that much effort to point your browser to dell.com or what have you and start seeing the price differences. Minimal research. Not hanging by a thread every tuesday, biting your nails, hoping for the fabled release.

Pro art shops may be a difference story and resilient to that urge to separate from Apple hardware, due to being ultimately dependent on Apple pro apps, but the article is stating that Apple's veil of secrecy really pushes businesses and IT departments away, and any potential enterprise partners.

And the byproduct of this mess? It also pushes away the so called enthusiasts and prosumers, and maybe even the fanboys.

[Icaras]

I agree that this represents the current Mac Pro customer. But this article focuses on future growth. Be it the Mac Pro (less likely) or iMacs and MacBook Pros in businesses, Apple's secrecy is not helping it gain more of a foothold in corporate IT. But then again, maybe Apple doesn't care, that's not their target.

They should care because as you reiterate, it's all about future growth.

Every company should care about future growth.

[nanofrog]

Again, you guys need to understand that the typical Mac Pro customer is a creative shop that is heavily invested in training, software, and IT resources around supporting OSX. When they need a new Mac Pro, they will just order one - whatever is available at the time. Their IT staff are not on here every day trying to figure out when the next product refresh is happening. That's completely irrelevant to most real customers... And no such organization is going to switch over to WinTel just because a refresh is overdue.
Software and training investments are a big deal in the enterprise world.

But most of what's posted here are by independents (and students), which would seemingly be on the rise, given the popularity of out-sourcing work rather than having full-time people (assuming the company works in other areas as well).

Are there any 6-core Xeon's over 2.8GHz shipping? I only see entry level hexacore CPU's around. It's very possible that yields on the higher clocked parts are pitiful and Intel is having difficulty meeting demands of it's top-tier customers.
Yes, there are DP systems shipping, as well as retail boxes (available, though they may sell out quickly when stock arrives).

And I think of it this way; Intel has contract requirements to meet, so they'll supply their contract orders prior to providing retail packaged parts.

[surferfromuk]

Are there any 6-core Xeon's over 2.8GHz shipping? I only see entry level hexacore CPU's around. It's very possible that yields on the higher clocked parts are pitiful and Intel is having difficulty meeting demands of it's top-tier customers.

BTW, our company uses an agency which is heavy on OSX and FCP and they have a mix of Mac Pro's from 2006, 2008 and 2009 and while these guys are very technically minded, they don't make a new machine purchase decision based on Apple's refresh cycle. If they hire a new FCP editor, they will buy a new Mac Pro for him that day, whatever Apple is selling at the time. I can guarantee they are not going "Jeez... Apple is a few weeks late on the 2010 Mac Pro refresh, we should hire an Avid guy and get him a Windows workstation instead"

Let's say you buy a ticket on Apple airlines to fly from New York to Paris. You get to fly in a propellor plane and sit on a rusty upturned bucket all the way. Flights going to take 20 hours they say!

Very next day Apple airlines announce at the same price ticket, NY to Paris, that all new bookings get to go on a 747 and have a huge reclining chair. The journey will take 7 hours they say!

'There has never been a better time to fly' they scream from the rooftops! This is our best airplane yet!

Your happy though right? cos your going to get to Paris sooner or later?

[Cavepainter]

The last couple studios I worked at could potentially be buying not one or two computers, but anywhere from 50 to 400. SMART businesses don't outfit their studio with 150 expensive, old-spec Mac Pros if a faster model may be offered for a similar price in the next few weeks unless they absolutely have to for scheduling reasons. Faster computers equals more productivity (at least in a labor intensive field like the animation biz,) and when we're talking large numbers of highly paid artists that are gonna be significantly faster on better equipment, thats big profits. Companies like money.

[xgman]

Again, I see this secrecy thing working on items like the newest iphone or ipad and maybe even on a new design of an imac, but notebooks and mac pros?, I just don't see how that helps Apple one bit.

[Deepshade]

With all things revolving around the iphone/pad it would really 'help' to show a professional face if Apple were a bit more forthcoming with news.

As has already been stated - this secrecy thing just makes Apple look like an unreliable source for future 'PRO' computer investment.

Speculation:


Processors are REALLY in short supply - MP in June
Apple missed the boat with Intel and they are now looking at rewiring everything with AMD chips, and are too embarrassed to let the world know its all gone tits up. MP in September
Apple still carry large stock of current processors and need to 'force' them out of the door. MP when current stock dries up.


Whatever is happening - as I make my living using a MacPro - it would be nice to know.

[sOid]

Apple missed the boat with Intel and they are now looking at rewiring everything with AMD chips, and are too embarrassed to let the world know its all gone tits up. MP in September


I don't think so. They just released new MacBooks with new Intel CPU's. And it would be very expensive to make Snow Leopard work on a AMD chip. If that will happen (which I doubt), it probably won't before OSX 10.7.

[J the Ninja]

I don't think so. They just released new MacBooks with new Intel CPU's. And it would be very expensive to make Snow Leopard work on a AMD chip. If that will happen (which I doubt), it probably won't before OSX 10.7.

I didn't realize AMD chipset drivers were so difficult to write.

You DO know AMD and Intel chips use the same ISA, right? Right?

[xgman]

If Apple goes AMD, I'm out. Also if it is a current stock problem, then they need to start slashing.

[Cindori]

And it would be very expensive to make Snow Leopard work on a AMD chip. If that will happen (which I doubt), it probably won't before OSX 10.7.

how come there's hacked snow leopard builds with amd support out there then?

[Icaras]

Well it looks like the WWDC dates have been announced for June 7-11!

Hopefully new Mac Pros before then. I was afraid WWDC this year might be around the end of June, or even the beginning of July.

[nanofrog]

Well it looks like the WWDC dates have been announced for June 7-11!

Hopefully new Mac Pros before then. I was afraid WWDC this year might be around the end of June, or even the beginning of July.
They'd want to get it out before the iPhones, so it should be in May to accomplish that. Unless they've pushed it's priority down further than it's been (possible given the development of the iPad).

[Icaras]

They'd want to get it out before the iPhones, so it should be in May to accomplish that. Unless they've pushed it's priority down further than it's been (possible given the development of the iPad).

Yes, my thoughts exactly. WWDC feels like the point of no return.

[sOid]

I didn't realize AMD chipset drivers were so difficult to write.

You DO know AMD and Intel chips use the same ISA, right? Right?

Well, no. But it WILL cost Apple money. One way or another. So I think it's highly unlikely.

[xgman]

They'd want to get it out before the iPhones,

Why? I see no relation whatsoever. mac pro is a small release that only pros will really take notice of.

[TennisandMusic]

Why? I see no relation whatsoever. mac pro is a small release that only pros will really take notice of.

No relation? Writing apps for mac/iphone/ipad kinda sucks on their cruddy consumer oriented machines.

[DSchwartz88]

No relation? Writing apps for mac/iphone/ipad kinda sucks on their cruddy consumer oriented machines.

my thoughts exactly. a may release seems likely because if they announce it before WWDC then all the devs who want the latest hardware go out and buy it in anticipation of the iPhone OS 4.0 release as well as the iPhone HD (or whatever its being called).

It makes sense to me, I just hope it makes sense to apple :-/

[J the Ninja]

Another, less doom and gloom explanation for the long wait is that Apple is trying to avoid another, even longer wait next year. Once the 2010s are out, there is going to be nothing really worth a refresh until either Sandy Bridge or Bulldozer. Intel has said "H2 2011" for the workstation models of Sandy Bridge, and while AMD has been fuzzy on the exact date for Bulldozer, I wouldn't get my hopes up for early in the year. (The 8-"module"/core DP chips are the Bulldozer models that would go in the MP, should Apple go for it).

So in a nutshell, there is no hardware to warrant the launch of the 2011 Mac Pro until the second half of the year. That's out of Apple's hands. If Apple launched the 2010s as soon as the Xeon 5600s were available in March, that would be the model we'd be stuck with for 16-18 months until there was something worth putting in a new generation. By delaying it into May or June, they wind up giving both the 2009s and the 2010s a roughly 14 month lifecycle, instead of 12 months for the 2009s and 16-18 months for the 2010s.


Ok, now back to your regularly scheduled moanings about Apple hating the pro market and killing Final Cut. (kind of like how people whined about Logic a year or two ago, until it cleared rewrite-land and got 64bit support and crapton of features. The whiners seem to have now forgotten Apple even makes Logic Studio)

[TennisandMusic]

Another, less doom and gloom explanation for the long wait is that Apple is trying to avoid another, even longer wait next year. Once the 2010s are out, there is going to be nothing really worth a refresh until either Sandy Bridge or Bulldozer. Intel has said "H2 2011" for the workstation models of Sandy Bridge, and while AMD has been fuzzy on the exact date for Bulldozer, I wouldn't get my hopes up for early in the year. (The 8-"module"/core DP chips are the Bulldozer models that would go in the MP, should Apple go for it).

So in a nutshell, there is no hardware to warrant the launch of the 2011 Mac Pro until the second half of the year. That's out of Apple's hands. If Apple launched the 2010s as soon as the Xeon 5600s were available in March, that would be the model we'd be stuck with for 16-18 months until there was something worth putting in a new generation. By delaying it into May or June, they wind up giving both the 2009s and the 2010s a roughly 14 month lifecycle, instead of 12 months for the 2009s and 16-18 months for the 2010s.


Ok, now back to your regularly scheduled moanings about Apple hating the pro market and killing Final Cut. (kind of like how people whined about Logic a year or two ago, until it cleared rewrite-land and got 64bit support and crapton of features. The whiners seem to have now forgotten Apple even makes Logic Studio)

Haha...you know a lot of people consider Logic way behind the times right? Buggy to the point of being unusable? Apple isn't exactly tearing it up in the DAW front.

Also I think if the current Mac Pro were more full featured and better priced, people wouldn't be so anxious for an update, which basically amounts to more cores (which I imagine most people can do without). I think the issue is people simply want better value for their money and not feel like they are being played for suckers.

If the current mac pro quad came with six ram slots populated with 12 gigs of ram, a better video card, a 1tb drive, and had esata and maybe a better case (internals) for 2 grand I imagine there would be way less apprehension. And Apple would still be making a killing off of that price.

[nanofrog]

Why? I see no relation whatsoever. mac pro is a small release that only pros will really take notice of.
Let's assume for a moment that the iPhone and MP release on the same day.

With all of the media focus on the iPhone, the MP would be drastically overshadowed. Now I realize the idea that pros wouldn't be bothered with this, but I don't agree with it on a couple of points.

Pros may want to buy iPhones as well, and could be distracted researching both products simultaneously (since the information isn't released in stages prior to the big announcement). Thus potentially causing a delay in purchase of one of the items (they want purchases to take off ASAP to regain their costs). There's also budget conflicts possible here as well, even in the corporate environment.


Getting back to the way Apple disseminates information, IT depts. (individuals wouldn't necessarily be opposed to this either) need to know what's coming up in order to properly plan their MTBR (Mean Time Between Replacement), as their release schedules aren't as predictable as other vendors (which are based on Intel's product road maps). Apple has made some surprising moves over the years, such as what's recently happened in the laptop product line.


Either of these can have an unusual effect on cash flow for tech purchases, meaning it may not be available, and prevent a desired purchase at the time the systems release. This could result from other purchases made based on MTBR, immediate need,... but also from the fact that the budgets are planned quarterly (corporate environment), and the tech may exceed what's available, so something will have to be postponed (i.e. simultaneous releases).

Independents can be affected as well, as they're more of a hand-to-mouth existence by comparison (much smaller budgets), so postponement doesn't seem impossible IMO, even if the purchase intentions is for just one product, given the MSRP's associated with MP's (I'm figuring on system upgrades, including software as well, not just base cost of the MP itself).

[nanofrog]

Another, less doom and gloom explanation for the long wait is that Apple is trying to avoid another, even longer wait next year. Once the 2010s are out, there is going to be nothing really worth a refresh until either Sandy Bridge or Bulldozer. Intel has said "H2 2011" for the workstation models of Sandy Bridge, and while AMD has been fuzzy on the exact date for Bulldozer, I wouldn't get my hopes up for early in the year. (The 8-"module"/core DP chips are the Bulldozer models that would go in the MP, should Apple go for it).

So in a nutshell, there is no hardware to warrant the launch of the 2011 Mac Pro until the second half of the year. That's out of Apple's hands. If Apple launched the 2010s as soon as the Xeon 5600s were available in March, that would be the model we'd be stuck with for 16-18 months until there was something worth putting in a new generation. By delaying it into May or June, they wind up giving both the 2009s and the 2010s a roughly 14 month lifecycle, instead of 12 months for the 2009s and 16-18 months for the 2010s.
Obviously, nothing major can be done without CPU's and the supporting chipset. But there's no getting around this, even if Apple began making their own CPU's (they'd have to deal with delays resulting from technical difficulties just as Intel, AMD, or any other chip maker do).

To me, the issue with users is the total lack of information (not common in the enterprise world), and the recent hike in pricing ('09 systems). They've realized that the value that existed previously is gone, and the general impression of uncertainty is (since there's no information being released), have begun to make OS X pro users rather nervous about sticking with the platform.

It's apparently made worse by the fact the software has closed the gaps, and exceeded OS X variants in some cases on the PC/Linux side as I understand it.

[Apple Corps]

Another, less doom and gloom explanation for the long wait is that Apple is trying to avoid another, even longer wait next year. Once the 2010s are out, there is going to be nothing really worth a refresh until either Sandy Bridge or Bulldozer. Intel has said "H2 2011" for the workstation models of Sandy Bridge, and while AMD has been fuzzy on the exact date for Bulldozer, I wouldn't get my hopes up for early in the year. (The 8-"module"/core DP chips are the Bulldozer models that would go in the MP, should Apple go for it).

So in a nutshell, there is no hardware to warrant the launch of the 2011 Mac Pro until the second half of the year. That's out of Apple's hands. If Apple launched the 2010s as soon as the Xeon 5600s were available in March, that would be the model we'd be stuck with for 16-18 months until there was something worth putting in a new generation. By delaying it into May or June, they wind up giving both the 2009s and the 2010s a roughly 14 month lifecycle, instead of 12 months for the 2009s and 16-18 months for the 2010s.


Ok, now back to your regularly scheduled moanings about Apple hating the pro market and killing Final Cut. (kind of like how people whined about Logic a year or two ago, until it cleared rewrite-land and got 64bit support and crapton of features. The whiners seem to have now forgotten Apple even makes Logic Studio)

The Mac Pro part of your "lifecycle" makes little sense to me. If there are no newer / better cpus out there for Apple to use then no one else will have them either. The complaint now is....

[Icaras]

The Mac Pro part of your "lifecycle" makes little sense to me. If there are no newer / better cpus out there for Apple to use then no one else will have them either. The complaint now is....

I think he is saying that Apple may be trying to even out the time frames for the lifecycles of the '09 and '10 models because the '11 models will take a while to appear since Sandybridge may not be out until the second half of 2011.

[Apple Corps]

I understood that - still does not make sense to me. If newer cpus are available now - and the competition is using them - Apple looks behind the times.

Fast forward to 16 months when the cycle looks long - so what - if no better cpus exist than Apple will not look behind the times as they are using the best that is available.

[J the Ninja]

I think he is saying that Apple may be trying to even out the time frames for the lifecycles of the '09 and '10 models because the '11 models will take a while to appear since Sandybridge may not be out until the second half of 2011.

Yeah, that was it.

[TennisandMusic]

I think he is saying that Apple may be trying to even out the time frames for the lifecycles of the '09 and '10 models because the '11 models will take a while to appear since Sandybridge may not be out until the second half of 2011.

While perhaps something that Apple would do, I don't think it personally makes sense, because if chips don't exist, Apple competitors won't be able to sell the stuff either. The problem is they are now consistently late to the game, overpriced, and under featured. I just don't see how that pattern can hold up long term. If the floor falls out of their "pro" market, the gadget stuff will follow.

[Apple Corps]

The issue is that Apple is not offering the latest / best cpus - regardless of lifecycle.

Or, am I not grasping the current gripes?

The gist of the explanation is that Apple is taking some type of grief NOW to avoid being criticized about a long life cycle a year and a half or so in the future. If they use the best available cpus at that time it will not matter !!!

[J the Ninja]

The issue is that Apple is not offering the latest / best cpus - regardless of lifecycle.

Or, am I not grasping the current gripes?

The gist of the explanation is that Apple is taking some type of grief NOW to avoid being criticized about a long life cycle a year and a half or so in the future. If they use the best available cpus at that time it will not matter !!!

In case you didn't notice (this thread is full of it), when we get too long of a drought from Apple, we start to think the new hardware/software isn't EVER coming, and we've been abandoned for the "iDevices". Much lamenting goes on about how we "knew it was over when they took 'Computer' out of their name". Apple has noticed this trend, I'm sure, and decided this way would produce fewer lost sales and a smaller $#%&storm than letting them go on for awhile.

Sure, folks like us would know there was nothing new to refresh for, but the vast majority of Mac Pro users probably aren't clued in to the fact that refreshes are done lockstep with new x64 workstations chips, or they might not know Intel and AMD publish roadmaps for that sort of thing, and will start doing the "abandoned for iToys" song and dance.

[TennisandMusic]

In case you didn't notice (this thread is full of it), when we get too long of a drought from Apple, we start to think the new hardware/software isn't EVER coming, and we've been abandoned for the "iDevices". Much lamenting goes on about how we "knew it was over when they took 'Computer' out of their name". Apple has noticed this trend, I'm sure, and decided this way would produce fewer lost sales and a smaller $#%&storm than letting them go on for awhile.

Sure, folks like us would know there was nothing new to refresh for, but the vast majority of Mac Pro users probably aren't clued in to the fact that refreshes are done lockstep with new x64 workstations chips, or they might not know Intel and AMD publish roadmaps for that sort of thing, and will start doing the "abandoned for iToys" song and dance.

I pretty much would have to disagree with this entirely. I don't think pro users are complete idiots. And you would kinda have to be to complain about not getting something that simply doesn't exist. I really just disagree that this is a plausible scenario.

[Tonytownsend]

I there maybe more behind this than a processor? A new design possibly? I mean maybe there something more than a new processor maybe?

[J the Ninja]

I there maybe more behind this than a processor? A new design possibly? I mean maybe there something more than a new processor maybe?

Could be. The exterior design and dimensions turn 7 in a few months, and it's really not wide enough to fit 12 RAM slots with those heatsinks. Not sure how that would delay it, but you never know.

[Apple Corps]

How late is Apple relative to the competition SHIPPING the latest Core cpus in their high end towers?

[you39]

In case you didn't notice (this thread is full of it), when we get too long of a drought from Apple, we start to think the new hardware/software isn't EVER coming, and we've been abandoned for the "iDevices". Much lamenting goes on about how we "knew it was over when they took 'Computer' out of their name". Apple has noticed this trend, I'm sure, and decided this way would produce fewer lost sales and a smaller $#%&storm than letting them go on for awhile.

Sure, folks like us would know there was nothing new to refresh for, but the vast majority of Mac Pro users probably aren't clued in to the fact that refreshes are done lockstep with new x64 workstations chips, or they might not know Intel and AMD publish roadmaps for that sort of thing, and will start doing the "abandoned for iToys" song and dance.

Sorry, but this does sound like the least plausible of all the explanations. Computers can only be state-of-the-art or obsolete in relation to other computers. Even if the latter were manufactured by the same brand, like the i7 imac. A product that remains state-of-the-art for a longer time won't produce lost sales, it will be considered a valuable product - it will sell. The longer you have a product in that position the better.

[VirtualRain]

How late is Apple relative to the competition SHIPPING the latest Core cpus in their high end towers?

Exactly. What are the facts? Who's actually shipping (not just taking orders) for high-clock DP Gulftown rigs? Also, where do they fit in the pecking order relative to Apple in terms of Intel's top-tier buyers?

Given the drop-in nature of the Gulftown processors (with new firmware) we must assume that any delay is simply based on processor availability.

[TennisandMusic]

Exactly. What are the facts? Who's actually shipping (not just taking orders) for high-clock DP Gulftown rigs? Also, where do they fit in the pecking order relative to Apple in terms of Intel's top-tier buyers?

Given the drop-in nature of the Gulftown processors (with new firmware) we must assume that any delay is simply based on processor availability.

Ugh...Even newegg has gulftown chips. The stuff is in stores, it's being shipped etc. etc. etc. People need to drop this line of reasoning, it's just nothing but trying to cloud the reality of things. No more excuses.

[Apple Corps]

Ugh...Even newegg has gulftown chips. The stuff is in stores, it's being shipped etc. etc. etc. People need to drop this line of reasoning, it's just nothing but trying to cloud the reality of things. No more excuses.

What line of reasoning are you wanting dropped? Who is SHIPPING towers with the latest Core cpus that so many are clamoring about and WHEN did they start shipping? This is a legitimate question.

[GiantDolphin]

What line of reasoning are you wanting dropped? Who is SHIPPING towers with the latest Core cpus that so many are clamoring about and WHEN did they start shipping? This is a legitimate question.

as has been mentioned a couple times already, DELL, is one easy example. Go here:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=workstation-precision-t7500&l=en&oc=bw1s1530&s=bsd&fb=1

note the available CPU's (including Dual Six Core Intel® Xeon® Processor X5680, 3.33GHz,12M L3, 6.4GT/s, turbo) and also note shipping date on the right hand side. If you had ordered last week, you would be getting it by this weekend.

[Apple Corps]

as has been mentioned a couple times already, DELL, is one easy example. Go here:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=workstation-precision-t7500&l=en&oc=bw1s1530&s=bsd&fb=1

note the available CPU's (including Dual Six Core Intel® Xeon® Processor X5680, 3.33GHz,12M L3, 6.4GT/s, turbo) and also note shipping date on the right hand side. If you had ordered last week, you would be getting it by this weekend.

So these have not yet arrived in consumer's hands and yet there is all the wailing & gnashing of teeth about how Apple has abandoned the pro market, is so far behind, etc.??????

[TennisandMusic]

So these have not yet arrived in consumer's hands and yet there is all the wailing & gnashing of teeth about how Apple has abandoned the pro market, is so far behind, etc.??????

Come on dude...your user name is sounding way too literal.

The CPU's are sitting on the shelves.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=xeon+six+core&x=0&y=0

[Apple Corps]

Come on dude...your user name is sounding way too literal.

The CPU's are sitting on the shelves.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=xeon+six+core&x=0&y=0

Come on dude yourself - a stand alone processor sitting on a shelf is way different than a complete system. So Apple is 1 week behind the competition thus far in shipping the "latest"?

[mac2x]

Come on dude...your user name is sounding way too literal.

The CPU's are sitting on the shelves.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=xeon+six+core&x=0&y=0

None of those are Gulftowns.

[Scoobyman]

Well I just saw this http://gizmodo.com/5526330/the-center-of-apples-universe
might have some bearing on the current attitude???

[Apple Corps]

10.6.3 was released on March 29 - 10.6.4 has been seeded less than 30 days later.

How does Gizmodo conclude OS X is forgotten? Perhaps they are spending too much time trying to purchase iPhone prototypes :rolleyes:

[GiantDolphin]

So these have not yet arrived in consumer's hands and yet there is all the wailing & gnashing of teeth about how Apple has abandoned the pro market, is so far behind, etc.??????

Very likely some of percentage of these are delivered to customers by now, but I have no way of knowing.

The fact that I am wasting time on these boards is a supreme indication that my desperate desire to update my systems with a Mac is already in its final, pathetic death throes. The timing couldn't be more unfortunate for my personal situation. As to your point of the gnashing... I would only gnash my teeth if I were to buy a mac pro today only to see the 12-core MPs come out in late May. Its a bummer.

[Apple Corps]

GiantDolphin - buy what you must buy when you must buy it. I'm selling my first version Mac Pro. It will probably be gone by this weekend and will be missed - another great Mac experience for me.

The plan is to stall for a few weeks but, like you and many others, at some point you will buy the best that is out there. If it happens to be the current version so be it.

Unless better / newer info surfaces, it appears that Apple is, not yet at least, that far behind the release schedule. I am hoping that all this furor about Apple abandoning the pro market is predicated on much more than not being the fastest to ship with the latest Xeon series.

So - if you gotta buy - than buy - it would be a good decision if your current Mac expires and you must have another one here and now. That is just bad luck - may happen to me as well. That does not mean that Apple is totally focused on iGadgets or whatever the Gizmodo "geniuses" think is happening.

[VirtualRain]

Very likely some of percentage of these are delivered to customers by now, but I have no way of knowing.

The fact that I am wasting time on these boards is a supreme indication that my desperate desire to update my systems with a Mac is already in its final, pathetic death throes. The timing couldn't be more unfortunate for my personal situation. As to your point of the gnashing... I would only gnash my teeth if I were to buy a mac pro today only to see the 12-core MPs come out in late May. Its a bummer.

I too would hate to buy an expensive computer just before a refresh, but when you consider what's coming, it's not as tough a pill to swallow as you might think. The best indications are that the Mac Pro is going to remain relatively unchanged except for a couple of 6-core BTO CPU options that may make their 4 core counterparts look like a bargain. While Apple might drop the quad and octo pricing somewhat, there's no guarantee.

If you really need a rig soon, buy a refurb 2009 and save a bit on what will still be a kick ass machine down the road. The 2010's are not going to be anything more than a couple more cores that most software can't use anyway.

Another option: what's the return policy? That may buy you some time. ???

[Techhie]

Another option: what's the return policy? That may buy you some time. ???

I know that the physical Apple stores allow for a 14 day "grace period" to exchange for a newly released machine, but I don't know that Mac Pros are actually carried anywhere but online. What would make the most sense to me is to wait until a few days before WWDC to buy, therefore maximizing your chances of getting a new machine. If there was any place to announce it, that would be it. Though, with the recent ads, I doubt there will be anything mac-related at the event.

[nanofrog]

I am hoping that all this furor about Apple abandoning the pro market is predicated on much more than not being the fastest to ship with the latest Xeon series.
It is, and has been listed in other threads. :(

I too would hate to buy an expensive computer just before a refresh, but when you consider what's coming, it's not as tough a pill to swallow as you might think. The best indications are that the Mac Pro is going to remain relatively unchanged except for a couple of 6-core BTO CPU options that may make their 4 core counterparts look like a bargain. While Apple might drop the quad and octo pricing somewhat, there's no guarantee.

If you really need a rig soon, buy a refurb 2009 and save a bit on what will still be a kick ass machine down the road. The 2010's are not going to be anything more than a couple more cores that most software can't use anyway.
No, the new systems would only need to be a firmware update to the existing boards. It's possible they could make some changes, but I doubt it given the financial resources required to produce new boards for a single run (no parts swap would produce USB 3.0 or SATA 6.0Gb/s for example).

So unless a hex or dodeca is beneficial compared to the current units, then skip it. The pricing on the hex core chips isn't most people's idea of inexpensive (particularly the DP line), and not necessarily provide a good cost/performance ratio, save for a limited use group such as video/graphics pros with fairly large budgets.

The Quad cores (DP versions, as they're all 32nm) would be a better alternative given Intel's published quantity pricing.

Another option: what's the return policy? That may buy you some time. ???
14 days applies to online purchases as well.