Mac Pro 2010 speculations

[RubbishBBspeed]

Oh forgotten about USB 3, good point.

Since replying to this thread it's opened up the torment of do I don't I.

It seems the 8 core 16Gb is well up to the job of what I and it would seem most other people need. While the 12 core would be the most up to date and powerful (let alone major brag value) is there any real world advantage a 12 core would give over the 8. It's more waiting for the replacement to the 30' screen which is making me wait.

In terms of spec-ing up a machine knowing that it will be upgraded over time on the Apple uk website an 8 core 2.26Ghz 16Gb 640 1st drive, 1Tb 2nd drive & 24"led is £3,857.01 (musn't forget the penny) inc 17.5% tax.

When the next large screen ACD arrives then two could be ordered and the 24' moved over for use with a Macbook.

But to the point. At £3,857 I can't see a 6 core being that much cheaper and as for a 12, well one can only imagine but would £3,500 for basic machine alone be a reasonable guestimate for price starting point?

 

[Altimeter88]

You can use non-ECC memory if you like and the use of Xeons and ECC memory doesn't increase the price to the consumer. The price would be nice, but I doubt they will under cut the iMac with the Mac Pros.

Well I think some Mac Pro users are frustrated that they can purchase a cheaper i7 iMac that comes with an awesome 27" display that outperforms the Mac Pro in most applications. Granted, it doesn't have the expandiblity that the current Mac Pro has but consider the following:

Using a non-xeon X58 setup for the new single CPU/Entry model Mac Pro would drop the overall price quite a bit. The new i7 930 quad-core retails at about $280 compared to the equivilant quad-core Xeon which runs over $1200 and offers no real-world benefit. Doing this for the entry model would still allow an upgrade option of the i980x 6-core during checkout at the apple store.

There is no reason to price this system more than $2K, buying those parts listed above with an amaing $300-$400 case etc. cost about $1500 retail from newegg right now, Apple would no doubt get volume prices cheaper and could still sell these starting in the $1500-$2000 range with various RAM, HDD, GPU upgrade options.

I have a 2006 Mac Pro 1,1 that I purchased on day one when they were released. At that time, purchasing the equivilant parts from newegg for DIY hackintosh actually cost MORE just for the parts than it did to buy a new Mac Pro. My Mac Pro is still running strong and has a flashed ATI 4870 as well as upgarded 2.33Ghz quad-core I dropped in there.

I am however excited for the refresh but honestly last year's 2009 Mac Pro release seemed to me like a total rip-off value wise compared with previous offerings. Not so much do to Apple but perhaps what was available parts wise in the market at the time, I am not sure, just seems like current offerings are so expensive for what you actually get, I mean my Pro that I purchased for $2400 in 2006 still screams especially with my upgrads that were almost free after selling the apple parts that I sold.

I want to get a new Mac Pro now but I just can't justify it when I can purchase an iMac that includes the 27" display I would be getting. For storage options you can get a 4 bay FW800 RAID enclosure and put 4 2TB drives if you like. The new iMac really is doing the undercutting I think and an $1800 priced Mac Pro using the parts above would sell like mad I think.

 

[Phantom Gremlin]

Using a non-xeon X58 setup for the new single CPU/Entry model Mac Pro would drop the overall price quite a bit. The new i7 930 quad-core retails at about $280 compared to the equivilant quad-core Xeon which runs over $1200 and offers no real-world benefit.

I don't know where you're getting your numbers from, but the Xeon and non-Xeon CPUs are pretty close in price. My source is Wikipedia, so you know it's accurate.

Here's the W3520 that Apple currently uses in the entry level Mac Pro. Its price is $284. Apple will probably replace it with the soon-to-be-announced W3530 for the 2010 entry level Mac Pro. I expect the price to be similar.

Here's the i7-930 that you mention. The price is $294, just about the same.

Intel charges a big premium for the CPUs that can operate in dual sockets. But that's not what Apple uses in the entry level Mac Pro.

I want to get a new Mac Pro now but I just can't justify it when I can purchase an iMac that includes the 27" display I would be getting

A different way to put this is that the iMacs are a very very good value. The Mac Pros, not so much.

For storage options you can get a 4 bay FW800 RAID enclosure and put 4 2TB drives if you like. The new iMac really is doing the undercutting I think and an $1800 priced Mac Pro using the parts above would sell like mad I think.

Have you pushed any real data across FW800? I'm frustrated since it's much slower than the built in drive in my iMac. For surfing the web I'm sure it's OK, but I'm trying to copy and/or transcode large MPEG video files and I'm not at all happy with Firewire.

 

[Altimeter88]

I don't know where you're getting your numbers from, but the Xeon and non-Xeon CPUs are pretty close in price. My source is Wikipedia, so you know it's accurate.

Here's the W3520 that Apple currently uses in the entry level Mac Pro. Its price is $284. Apple will probably replace it with the soon-to-be-announced W3530 for the 2010 entry level Mac Pro. I expect the price to be similar.

Here's the i7-930 that you mention. The price is $294, just about the same.

Intel charges a big premium for the CPUs that can operate in dual sockets. But that's not what Apple uses in the entry level Mac Pro.



A different way to put this is that the iMacs are a very very good value. The Mac Pros, not so much.



Have you pushed any real data across FW800? I'm frustrated since it's much slower than the built in drive in my iMac. For surfing the web I'm sure it's OK, but I'm trying to copy and/or transcode large MPEG video files and I'm not at all happy with Firewire.

I did some research, I guess I just assumed they used the same dual CPU capable X series Xeons as the dual CPU Mac Pro model...that makes the current Mac Pros even less of a bargain which is why I originially suggested they switch to the 930, now it just makes no sense to me why they don't offer a lower model starting at $1600 or so.
I know the Pro's are great but when you compare the part prices of the 2009 models to what I paid for my Mac Pro 1,1 2006 intel model, the new ones really are a crappy value. Like I said earlier, you couldn't even buy those parts from Newegg at the same price it cost to get a full Mac Pro from Apple at that time.
It just sucks now knowing you can buy better parts for almost a thousand less than the current Mac Pro offerings.

Regarding what you said above about FW800, yes the current i5/i7 iMacs are an amazing value, but the lack of a eSATA port or USB3.0 has kept me from jumping on one and selling my current Mac Pro, hopefully we will see some better value offerings with new Cinema displays soon, if not a new hackintosh may be in my future.

 

[JesterJJZ]

Shafted again...new Mac Pros sometime soon please....

 

[Magic Lantern]

Three words...

'mobile devices company'

 

[Wild-Bill]

Epic Fail, Apple. Macbook Pros updated last JUNE get updated after 10 months. Average refresh cycle of the Mac Pro is..... I don't know. I'll need a dual 6-core processor machine to compute that one.




P.S.


Thanks alot (sarcasm) to whichever of the mods took it upon themselves to close my earlier thread for no good reason.

 

[xgman]

Shafted again...new Mac Pros sometime soon please....

I'm loosing hope for anytime soon. Clearly not a priority for Apple, nor is most of the computer line, including the OS, according to today's macrumors article:

"Apple might have had to delay the development and subsequently the release of MAc OS X 10.7. There should not be any beta release for developers at the WWDC 2010 this summer. This delay is not linked to difficulties in development, but rather to the changes in assignment of the engineer teams to the iPad and iPhone OS, making the evolution of Mac OS X a secondary task.
This unconfirmed information comes as a confirmation of a recent news in which we were reporting that software development teams have been massively reassigned during the past months to make the iPad release and roadmap possible. If WWDC 2009 was mostly dedicated to the iPhone OS, the 2010 edition might be the iPad/iPhone party, and Mac users as well as developers will have to wait probably another year before getting Mac OS X 10.7.?

 

[fearoftigers]

Well I think some Mac Pro users are frustrated that they can purchase a cheaper i7 iMac that comes with an awesome 27" display that outperforms the Mac Pro in most applications. Granted, it doesn't have the expandiblity that the current Mac Pro has but consider the following:

Using a non-xeon X58 setup for the new single CPU/Entry model Mac Pro would drop the overall price quite a bit. The new i7 930 quad-core retails at about $280 compared to the equivilant quad-core Xeon which runs over $1200 and offers no real-world benefit. Doing this for the entry model would still allow an upgrade option of the i980x 6-core during checkout at the apple store.

There is no reason to price this system more than $2K, buying those parts listed above with an amaing $300-$400 case etc. cost about $1500 retail from newegg right now, Apple would no doubt get volume prices cheaper and could still sell these starting in the $1500-$2000 range with various RAM, HDD, GPU upgrade options.

I have a 2006 Mac Pro 1,1 that I purchased on day one when they were released. At that time, purchasing the equivilant parts from newegg for DIY hackintosh actually cost MORE just for the parts than it did to buy a new Mac Pro. My Mac Pro is still running strong and has a flashed ATI 4870 as well as upgarded 2.33Ghz quad-core I dropped in there.

I am however excited for the refresh but honestly last year's 2009 Mac Pro release seemed to me like a total rip-off value wise compared with previous offerings. Not so much do to Apple but perhaps what was available parts wise in the market at the time, I am not sure, just seems like current offerings are so expensive for what you actually get, I mean my Pro that I purchased for $2400 in 2006 still screams especially with my upgrads that were almost free after selling the apple parts that I sold.

I want to get a new Mac Pro now but I just can't justify it when I can purchase an iMac that includes the 27" display I would be getting. For storage options you can get a 4 bay FW800 RAID enclosure and put 4 2TB drives if you like. The new iMac really is doing the undercutting I think and an $1800 priced Mac Pro using the parts above would sell like mad I think.

Yes I'm in exactly the same quandary as you.

I'm so tempted by the high end 16gb ram iMac but if I wonder if it’s a good long term investment (given all the iMac build problems and lack of expandability etc).

There’s no chance I’m going to get the current 4 core Mac Pro, it doesn’t seem like good value at all.

But are Apple really thinking of leaving the Pro market or is this just extrapolation? Maybe I should just plump for an iMac.

I’m a music producer but use a lot of high end plugins like Omnisphere that just eat through Ram and processing power.

Opinion / advice anyone?

 

[xgman]

Could there even be a glimmer of hope here?:

"Please join Apple for an update on their latest hardware and software products. Lunch will be provided to all those attending.

Date: Wednesday April 14th, 2010

Time: 11:30am – 12:30pm (PT)

Where: Renaissance Hotel, Las Vegas"

 

[beaker7]

Could there even be a glimmer of hope here?:

"Please join Apple for an update on their latest hardware and software products. Lunch will be provided to all those attending.

Date: Wednesday April 14th, 2010

Time: 11:30am – 12:30pm (PT)

Where: Renaissance Hotel, Las Vegas"

Where did you see that?

 

[Wild-Bill]

Ooooooooooooh!






I wonder what they're serving for lunch!

 

[Magic Lantern]

My speculation for the 2010:

2011.

 

[parakiet]

Could there even be a glimmer of hope here?:

"Please join Apple for an update on their latest hardware and software products. Lunch will be provided to all those attending.

Date: Wednesday April 14th, 2010

Time: 11:30am – 12:30pm (PT)

Where: Renaissance Hotel, Las Vegas"

new pad, mbp, software stuff...

 

[Wild-Bill]

UPDATE: The Page has been taken down, but the hotel has confirmed to 9to5mac that an Apple event is in fact booked from 8-12 on Wednesday. Whether it’s an official Apple event or an Apple related event put on by someone else remains uncertain.

UPDATE 2: Mac Soda has been told by the company responsible for the event, Integrated Media Technologies, to immediately pull the story because it has no affiliation with Apple and there will not be any announcements by Apple. Maybe it’s just me, but if I didn’t want people to think it was an Apple event, I wouldn’t write “Please join Apple for an update on their latest hardware and software products.” on the invitation.

Link 8-(

I also predict the 2010 Mac Pro refresh will occur in 2011.....maybe.

 

[keewe]

wont happen:

http://www.9to5mac.com/Apple-NAB-2010-Final-Cut-Pro-4-894598534

 

[Wild-Bill]

Beat you to the punch.

 

[xgman]

Where did you see that?

here: http://www.garysky.net/apple-nab-event-2010-hardware-and-software-updates-expected-5.html and I know it's wishful foolish thinking at this point. I doubt we will see anything before June at the earliest, but we can always hope.

 

[Transporteur]

My speculation, we won't see a new Mac Pro.
The 2009 was the last Pro machine they sold and they now completely focus on consumer hardware like iMacs and MacBooks.

Would be nice though, if they could release a firmware update so that we can pop two hex cores in our 2009 Pro's.

 

[DualShock]

Isn't it not a good thing to engage in premature specification?

 

[rajbonham]

My speculation for the 2010:

2011.

Hahaha, but seriously, this is reaallly lame. I honestly believe if they don't use the free advertising they would get from announcing a "real" pro computer during NAB, Apple is just foolish.

Isn't it not a good thing to engage in premature specification?

What?

 

[DualShock]

What?

Steve Jobs used the phrase "premature specification" when referring to the leaked Power Mac G5 specs when officially introducing it at WWDC one year.

 

[rajbonham]

Steve Jobs used the phrase "premature specification" when referring to the leaked Power Mac G5 specs when officially introducing it at WWDC one year.

Oh, got it. Thanks.

 

[nanofrog]

But are Apple really thinking of leaving the Pro market or is this just extrapolation? Maybe I should just plump for an iMac.

It's extrapolation, but it's based on fact, not wild speculation (hunch, nothing to support it).

I'll try to give you a quick run-down.
1. Intel's moving to more cores per processor = more expensive parts, particularly in the Xeon families. This means that when you add in Apple's high margins, the price is getting out of hand, even for die-hard Apple fans. Even corporations that use MP's or XServes have their limits as to what they'd pay.
2. Updates from Apple are getting sloppy (i.e. bugs slipping through).
3. Workstation's market share is miniscule compared to other segments, notably the portable device arena.
4. LightPeak will be out in the not too distant future.
5. Contention between 3rd party software developers hasn't really been great, and it's highly contentious between Adobe and Apple (and seems to be heating up, given the recent front page articles on MR and other sites). This could result in Adobe completely abandoning Apple's products in the not too distant future, if the sales numbers don't generate enough profits (and especially if no profit at all).

Apple could consider the use of LightPeak with an iMac as an MP replacement. It's cheaper too, as they'd increase the sales market for the iMacs, and eliminate the R&D devoted to the MP's. Better margins are possible if the iMac sales numbers increase (i.e. R&D split over more systems = lower cost per system). And if so, ditch the XServe all together (those sales are even smaller than the MP I'd imagine).

Simply put, they're following the money.

My speculation for the 2010:

2011.

Nice.

My speculation, we won't see a new Mac Pro.
The 2009 was the last Pro machine they sold and they now completely focus on consumer hardware like iMacs and MacBooks.

Would be nice though, if they could release a firmware update so that we can pop two hex cores in our 2009 Pro's.

They'll at least produce a line this time around, as all that's necessary is a drop-in swap via a firmware update.

Past that though, it's getting harder to tell. Personally, it seems to me that 2013 would be the last year of the MP (parts availability & associated cost per), and they're likely to seriously consider switching worstation users to a LightPeak equiped iMac. Seriously. It's cheaper, and money is Apple's primary concern, just like any other corporation.

 

[Wild-Bill]

I agree with all your points nanofrog. However, on Point #1 about the increasing prices in Intel CPUs in adding cores, coupled with Apple's outrageous margins..... Apple are already making huge margins on all of their products. Some more than others, like the iPad which brings them an almost 50% margin. And that margin doesn't change when economies of scale kick in on the assembly line and manufacturing costs decline.

My point is, with so many new products bringing in large margins, surely they could accept a more reasonable margin on the Mac Pro and not leave the Mac Pro community out in the wind to twist.