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RawBert
May 30, 2010, 07:20 PM
I got my first Mac in 03 and have loved every second of it. I love Apple's products. Steve Jobs is on my short list of people I consider truly great. I consider myself a huge fan of Apple and I am proud to be a part of the "Apple Culture." Though I'm still relatively new to this whole scene.

About a year ago I started reading comments in the News and Article Discussion Forum of MacRumors. I love it. I read for hours all the comments and criticisms. All these different points of view from people all over the world. It still is such a pleasure to read. I spend most of my time on the net here, for that reason.

The thing that I just wasn't expecting is the fairly large amount of Apple hatred. (So naive, I know). Sure, I expected some, but it seemed excessive to me. After all, this is a Mac fan site. Anyway, when I joined MR and started joining in the conversations and discussions, I pretty much knew what to expect. Still, I didn't fully realize what the connotation "fan boy" meant. To blindly defend Apple. To dismiss the notion that Apple can do a wrong. Well, it undoubtedly goes both ways. Not all, but a lot of that anti-Apple or anti-Microsoft attitude that we see around here is fanboyism. I too admittedly am biased in favor of Apple. Still, I wouldn't call myself a fan boy (any more). I love these forums. I've learned many things here. Not just about tech, but about perspectives. I'm a wiser man for it. And now, instead of being bothered by anti-Apple statements or blindly agreeing pro-Apple fanboyism, I observe it and even learn a thing or two from it.

So, would you consider yourself an Apple "fan boy or fangirl?" Did you at one point?

Below is a good article on the subject that I pretty much agree with. It's pro-Apple, of course, since it's from TUAW (http://www.tuaw.com/2010/05/29/7-anti-apple-cliches-that-need-to-die/).

BTW, These cliches won't die out any time soon.

7 anti-Apple cliches that need to die
by Chris Rawson (RSS feed) on May 29th 2010 at 8:30PM


PC vs. Mac flamewars are older than the web itself, but it seems like the more popular/successful Apple gets, the more heated the argument gets on both sides. Almost any debate about the relative merits of one platform or another is guaranteed to degenerate into an all-out shouting match.*

In the midst of all the fighting and name calling, the oddest thing happens: almost every time, you'll see a lot of the same points being raised by both sides again and again. Some of these points are so tired and worn out, they've reached cliche status.

In online debates, there's an informal rule known as Godwin's Law, whereby if you invoke references or comparisons to Nazis or Hitler, you've automatically lost the debate. I say the items on this list have become so worn out they've reached automatic rhetorical failure status on their own. I know that every time I see one of these points appear, I immediately stop any serious consideration of any other arguments from the person who brought it up.

*I'm focusing on Apple haters and their cliches for this article, but don't get the idea that Apple users aren't just as guilty of cliche-ridden arguments when they argue against using Windows. If, for example, you're an Apple user and you do any of these things:

-- Cite the Blue Screen of Death (or BSOD, as he's known to his closest friends) as a point against Windows
-- Insert a dollar sign into Microsoft's name (Micro$oft, M$)
-- Use "clever" alternate spellings of Windows (Windoze and other less family-friendly revisions)
-- Call Internet Explorer "Internet Exploder"

you're employing a heavily-cliched, Godwin-esque talking point, too.*

Read on for the seven deadly cliches of anti-Mac attacks.


1. Fanboy

Long ago this word actually meant something, as you can discover in this excellent article from Technologizer (http://technologizer.com/2010/05/17/fanboy/), but it's become so overused in the past few years that it's become meaningless. Once upon a time, "fanboy" as an insult meant someone had an overweening and maybe even creepy obsession with something or other. Maybe you had a Klingon-themed wedding, complete with uniforms, makeup, and vows in the Klingon language? That would have made you a Star Trek fanboy (we prefer the term "Trekker," good sir). If you spray-painted a big number "3" on the side of your Ford and had an entire set of Dale Earnhardt commemorative plates in your den, that meant you were a NASCAR fanboy.

But "fanboy" has been used so much in Apple vs. PC wars that it's lost its flavor. "You're just an Apple fanboy," is a dismissive debate tactic, used to imply that someone is so blinded by their love for all things Apple that they'd say or do anything to support the company and its products. I don't deny that there are Apple users like that out there, but "fanboy" has been spread so thin that almost anyone with a positive opinion of Apple's products is saddled with that label. It's even reached the mainstream press now, and as all internet veterans know, once something goes mainstream, it's played out.*

"Fanboy" is so tired that I've started something new: if I see any anti-Apple argument longer than a couple sentences or so, I start scanning for that word first. If I see "fanboy" written anywhere, I don't even bother reading the rest. The worst thing about "fanboy" is it's really just the pot calling the kettle black. If you're willing to dismiss someone else's opinions because you think they have some kind of cult-like obsession, there's a good chance you've got one, too.


2. Kool-Aid

Speaking of cult-like obsessions, I've lost count of how many times I've been accused of "drinking the Apple Kool-Aid." This cliche got its start after nearly 1000 members of the Jonestown cult drank poison-laced Flavor-Aid back in 1978. It's meant to imply blind devotion, with the idea that Mac users are all members of some kind of crazy, wide-eyed commune with Steve Jobs as its inspirational but depraved leader.

I'll admit we don't help matters much ourselves: lots of Mac users turn into platform evangelists, sometimes to an irritating degree, and we've even adopted the term "Cult of Mac" to describe behaviors that really could be described as "fanboyism." But just like "fanboy," the "Kool-Aid" thing gets said at least 100,000 times a day on the internet, for the same reason as "fanboy" -- a means of dismissing the other side's points because you think they've been brainwashed.

Guys, "Kool-Aid" has lost its punch. Besides, I prefer the Apple Colt 45. It works every time.


3. No games

Ever heard this one? "Good luck playing games on your overpriced Fisher Price laptop, oh wait, there aren't any, hahaha." My copies of Civilization IV, Bioshock, and now Portal say otherwise. Macs do have far fewer games than Windows-running PCs, and even though Valve just launched Steam for the Mac, PCs will probably always have more games than Macs. That said, things have improved since the early- to mid-2000s -- the last time this argument had some merit. Fewer and fewer AAA titles are PC-only these days, and considering how successful Steam for the Mac has been so far, the days of the Mac as a neglected gaming platform are over.

Besides, show me how many PC or Mac gamers only game on their computers. I've got a PS3, Wii, DS, and iPhone, with a grand total of over 150 games between all of those platforms. Gaming on my Mac is kind of an afterthought; until Portal came out for the Mac in early May, I think the last time I did any serious gaming on my MacBook Pro was in December of last year.*

My consoles are for games, my Mac is for work, and my iPhone falls somewhere in the middle. But that doesn't mean I never game on my Mac because there's "no games" for it -- there's now more games for the Mac than I even have time to demo, much less play.


4. One-button mouse

This one is older than dirt and only half as tasty. What's funniest about the "one-button mouse" argument is that Apple's Magic Mouse and trackpads now essentially have no buttons, so we should be talking about a "no button mouse" instead, right?

I'll admit that Apple's obsession with killing off buttons is a little weird, but it's had zero effect on my workflow. My MacBook Pro's trackpad is configurable to an almost excessive degree thanks to multitouch and tools like BetterTouchTool. Right now I can click, right-click, middle-click, scroll, three, four, or five-finger swipe in four different directions, pinch, expand, rotate, four-finger tap... and those are just the options I've enabled. With multitouch, my trackpad can recognize up to eleven different points of contact, meaning the possibilities are nearly endless. All of that on a trackpad with only one button.

Say what you will about Apple's war on buttons, but I've played all the way through both Bioshock and Portal using just my MacBook Pro's built-in trackpad, with no external mouse. That's not something I'd even attempt to do on a non-Apple trackpad, no matter how many buttons it comes with.


5. Any reference to 1984

Ever since the App Store launched, with its draconian and often Byzantine rules on what is or is not acceptable in the store, roughly 574,892 articles have come out retreading the 1984 theme. Apple kind of brought this one on themselves with that Super Bowl ad 26 years ago; iconic as it was, you just knew people would someday jump at the chance to get all "ironic" and say that Apple is now the "Big Brother" they once decried. Which is exactly what's happened, of course, because not a week goes by now without at least five articles mentioning Steve Jobs and Big Brother in the same sentence.

Here's a quick challenge: name the protagonist, or any other character besides Big Brother, from Orwell's novel... without using Google or Wikipedia. If you can do it, then kudos to you: go right on using that epic cliche of a comparison. Although last time I checked, nobody's going to storm your house, put a gun to your head, and direct you to store.apple.com and force you to buy anything it sells. Additionally, Apple still doesn't have an equivalent of Room 101 at the Cupertino campus. Maybe they'll announce it at WWDC.


6. "Apple is the new Microsoft"

Apple isn't the new Microsoft. You know why not? Because other than Windows 7 and Office, the "new" Microsoft doesn't know how to make a successful product. The Zune tanked. The KIN will tank. Windows Phone Blake's 7 (or whatever they're calling it this week) is going to tank. The Xbox, for all the market penetration it has, is a loss leader for Microsoft even after five years on the shelves. Internet Explorer's market share, which was overwhelming ten years ago, is inching downward toward 50%. Apple's market cap just surpassed Microsoft's, and the reason why had just as much to do with Microsoft's financial free-fall as it has Apple's ascendance.

If anything, Apple is more like the old Microsoft. So fat with cash it can buy just about whatever it wants. Dominance in at least one industry, thanks to the iPod. A tight grip on public mindshare of what a smartphone is and is capable of doing, because of the iPhone. And yes, I'll admit it: a growing overconfidence, bordering on arrogance.*

Apple isn't the "new" Microsoft. It's got far more in common with the Microsoft of the mid-90s, when it was on top of its game and had yet to be smacked down by regulators or competitors. But the comparisons run thin when you look at the numbers behind them, because unlike mid-90s Microsoft, Apple doesn't have a monopoly on anything. Worldwide Mac marketshare is near 5%. The iPhone's worldwide marketshare among smartphones is about 16%, and something like 2-3% when we're talking about cellphones as a whole. iTunes Store sales account for about 27% of music sold in the US. The iPod is the closest thing Apple has to a monopoly, but even that has a 70% or so marketshare -- not the massive dominance of Windows or Office.

Mid-90s Microsoft was a colossus, capable of steamrolling the competition into dust. Its reputation was earned and deserved -- I mean, it got to the point that Bill Gates even demolished Homer Simpson's half-baked little startup. The Apple of 2010 wields a lot of power, and it sometimes does it in a very heavy-handed manner... but name one thing Apple's done that even comes close to what Microsoft did to Netscape Navigator.


7. Smug Mac users

This last one needs to die for a different reason: because unlike any of the others, this one is often true. Mac geeks, you're all guilty of this. So am I, right now, in this article. There's me, something like 700 words ago: "I'd never try to use the trackpad on one of their laptops, hur hur hur." We look down our noses at Windows and computers without Apple logos on them. We justify paying a little more for our Macs by talking about build quality, reliability, and the ability to run OS X with the same borderline snooty tones as BMW owners describing the merits of their cars versus a Ford. "Macs never crash," we lie. "OS X runs so much better than Windows," we say through clenched teeth, right before adjusting our ascots.*

The "Get a Mac" ads didn't do our image any favors. I'm glad those ads have been retired, because I hated them for the same reason a lot of Apple haters did. John Hodgeman's PC character was a loser, but he was a loveable loser, the kind of character a lot of us geeks can identify with. Justin Long's Mac character, whether intentionally or not, radiated smugness. I may be a Mac user, but I'd rather have a beer with "PC" than frappuccinos with "Mac" any day.

I think this smugness, whether it's perceived or actual smugness, is what fuels most of the anti-Apple hatred these days. If you don't own an iPhone and have no intention of buying one, then it's no skin off your back if Apple runs its App Store like "Stalinist Russia" or "Nazi Germany" or "North Korea" or whatever bit of hyperbole is in vogue this week. If you don't own a Mac and don't want to, then why does the opinion of a measly 5% of the computing world even matter? I'm willing to bet it's in large part because of the Smug.

So there you have it: six cliches that need to die because they're inherently dumb, and one that needs to die because it's sometimes true. Go ahead and keep using them if you want, but at this point it's like busting out the "cabbage patch" in a dance contest: may be good for laughs, but no points awarded. As always, feel free to disagree with me, because what do I know? I'm just a smug, Kool-Aid drinking fanboy, who never gets to play any games on his one-button computer thanks to Big Brother Steve and the New Microsoft.

niuniu
May 30, 2010, 07:28 PM
My Apple is perfect days are over, but Mac OS X is still my preferred platform over Windows or Linux. Apple's finish is really trendy and prime - it's hard to switch to a lesser finish.

It could all be so much better though - especially in the mobile dept. It's locked down and restrictive, really awful stuff for 2010. I don't know how people think this stuff is cutting edge..

dukebound85
May 30, 2010, 07:44 PM
hmm ironic as the author says this and it pretty much applies to everything he says lol
If you're willing to dismiss someone else's opinions because you think they have some kind of cult-like obsession, there's a good chance you've got one, too.

*LTD*
May 30, 2010, 08:23 PM
It's locked down and restrictive, really awful stuff for 2010. I don't know how people think this stuff is cutting edge..

I'm sure there's a non-existent/scrapped/failed iPad/iPod/iPhone-Killer out there with your name on it. Just open your wallet and trade down. As far as the iPad goes, it's the best of its kind available at the moment, and by the looks of the sleepy, unimaginative, misguided "competition", it looks like this market will belong to the iPad for some time.

maflynn
May 30, 2010, 09:34 PM
My Apple is perfect days are over, but Mac OS X is still my preferred platform over Windows or Linux. Apple's finish is really trendy and prime - it's hard to switch to a lesser finish.

It could all be so much better though - especially in the mobile dept. It's locked down and restrictive, really awful stuff for 2010. I don't know how people think this stuff is cutting edge..

Agreed, while I never considered myself a fanboy the blind following by some here is surprising. Apple is a multibillion dollar corporation with one purpose to make money. Not a bad thing but they're not worthy of worship

I've already tranistion over to a better open phone. The iPhone one is a good phone with good apps. I'm finding I have more choice, more customization and mmore power with my nexus. Apple is now playing catch up against the android platform

notjustjay
May 30, 2010, 09:39 PM
hmm ironic as the author says this and it pretty much applies to everything he says lol

I liked the article he quoted (did the OP write that piece?), for the most part, except the one paragraph with all the jabs at Microsoft. That seems to be every bit the "fanboy" and "the Smug" that the article author claims to hate.

KeriJane
May 30, 2010, 09:52 PM
Odd.

I didn't see any "jabs" at Microsoft, only an explanation of what some of their practices were and are. Also, a comparison of what Apple is doing now relative to what MS did in their heyday.

If anything, I feel the OP was being overly nice towards MS and a little hard on Apple.

I wouldn't have done so.
"Apple Fangirl"? Maybe I am. Certainly by most MS supporters definitions I am.
I respect Apple's contributions to humanity which I consider to have mostly been positive while MS has been more my idea of a Parasite.

Have fun,
Keri

notjustjay
May 30, 2010, 09:56 PM
Odd.

I didn't see any "jabs" at Microsoft, only an explanation of what some of their practices were and are.

I read as far as this:

"The Zune tanked. The KIN will tank. Windows Phone Blake's 7 (or whatever they're calling it this week) is going to tank..."

And then I decided that author wasn't exactly trying to be objective. The Zune's sales can be tracked, sure, but the Kin and Windows Phone 7 have just been released and it's very premature to offer conjecture on their success without a good bit of personal opinion mixed in.

KeriJane
May 30, 2010, 10:15 PM
Oh.

So the Zune didn't tank? Or stating the fact that a product specifically intended to be an iPod killer failed to do so is a "jab"? MS was touting the Zune to be the next big thing... And it wasn't. Seems like a "tank" to me. Saying so isn't an insult, just an observation.

So predicting the failure of a product is a "jab"? OK, fine, whatever.

OK, maybe poking a little fun at MS not being able to decide on a name might be a jab... But "Blakes 7" is hardly an offensive, insulting jab like, oh, say... iMaxiPad for example.

I would've thought a jab would be something like this: "That bunch of criminal frauds over at MS can't do anything right!" or "I wonder how they'll try to get away with copying Apple this time?"
Now those are Jabs!

I still think OP was far too nice towards MS,
Drinking the Kool Aid,
Keri

RawBert
May 30, 2010, 11:38 PM
I still think OP was far too nice towards MS,

By OP, You mean the guy who wrote the article.

R94N
May 31, 2010, 01:27 AM
To be honest, I might be an Apple fanboy, but I don't care what anyone else thinks. I love the company and their ideas. I have completely switched from the PC and I'm never going back :)

citizenzen
May 31, 2010, 01:33 AM
Unapologetic fanboy.

If you're calling me that, it just must mean you're jealous.

R94N
May 31, 2010, 01:38 AM
To be honest, I might be an Apple fanboy, but I don't care what anyone else thinks. I love the company and their ideas. I have completely switched from the PC and I'm never going back :)

I've just realised how spiteful that sounds. I'm not like this in real life, promise!

roadbloc
May 31, 2010, 04:03 AM
I like some of Apple's products, but I am not a fanboy. I've been put off Apple by their decisions and by the obsessiveness of some of the MacRumours members.

I doubt I will be buying another Apple product, unless 10.7 is seriously impressive.

Dagless
May 31, 2010, 04:33 AM
I like what they do best; the iMac, the iPod, the Macbook. But I really don't like anything else they do. So I'm not a fan. I'm not like some on this forum that think Apple would dominate X market if they entered or would mindlessly buy any upcoming product just because Apple made it.

For me they're a means to an end. I need a good music player and a semi-decent, low power, small computer.

*LTD*
May 31, 2010, 05:14 AM
I read as far as this:

[I]"The Zune tanked. The KIN will tank. Windows Phone Blake's 7 (or whatever they're calling it this week) is going to tank..."[/I

The first two are correct. The third point is a reasonable assumption, given it's MS we're talking about.

I've just realised how spiteful that sounds. I'm not like this in real life, promise!

I didn't read anything spiteful about your post, but if you mean that you're unable to take a stand and because you're looking for everyone's approval, then mission accomplished.

maflynn
May 31, 2010, 05:27 AM
I liked the article he quoted (did the OP write that piece?), for the most part, except the one paragraph with all the jabs at Microsoft. That seems to be every bit the "fanboy" and "the Smug" that the article author claims to hate.

Agreed but given that it was from TAUW, would you expect anything less. Its an apple focused blog.

I agree that while the author tries to make a case those cliches go, he actually fulfills them. I think there some comments left there on that story stating the same.

They may be dated cliches, but until people stop exhibiting blind and a worshipful attitude towards apple that defies logic and common sense, those terms will remain.

Abstract
May 31, 2010, 06:18 AM
hmm ironic as the author says this and it pretty much applies to everything he says lol

I think the author is "not smart", and reading his opinion was painful. I don't know if he realises that he's all the things people hate about Mac users.

AdeFowler
May 31, 2010, 06:43 AM
But what is a 'fanboy'?

I bought my first Mac in 1994 and I've used nothing else since. For what it's worth, I've made a decent living from my Macs. In general, I love Apple products and certain aspects of their culture:

I've own(ed) 5 Macs, 2 iPods and an iPad
I've bought 2 Macs for family members
I get excited by the share price, though I'm not a shareholder
I defend Apple sometimes too vociferously especially in the face of ignorance

However;
I haven't got an iPhone
I cringe at many of Apple's short sighted decisions
I hated the Get a Mac ads
I dissuade people from buying Macs on a regular basis

I don't consider myself to be a fanboy as I don't blindly endorse everything Apple do, but I do feel that their products (even those with a closed system) are right for many people.

UrbanerMezei
May 31, 2010, 08:29 AM
Being a Fanboy has nothing to do with spotting a superior product. What I'm sick an tired of personally is people who refer to other PCs (non-Mac) as Windows PCs.

You can run more operating systems than just Windows on it.

glocke12
May 31, 2010, 09:09 AM
I own an imac, macmini, MBP, ipad, iphone and a couple of ipods. Youd think as a result Id have nothing but glowing praise for all things Apple, well think otherwise....

I like and buy the stuff for the ease of use and the OS, but Apple products are overpriced, not as much as some may think they are, but they are overpriced for what you get.

When I bought my 2008 MBP, I was excited. I was thinking Id be getting a laptop that would last a good 3-5 years before I had any problems. Well, once it hit two years the optical drive failed.

I also dont like Apples way of trying to exert control over users who purchase their stuff, i.e. closed OS's on iphone and ipad. The apps available for these on the app store are a joke for the most part. The full potential of these items are only realized when they are jailbroken..

Dont get me wrong, I love Apple products, but they just arent all that some make them out to be.

KeriJane
May 31, 2010, 09:13 AM
Being a Fanboy has nothing to do with spotting a superior product. What I'm sick an tired of personally is people who refer to other PCs (non-Mac) as Windows PCs.

You can run more operating systems than just Windows on it.


Yes, you can and probably should run non-Windows OS's on a PC.
If you're not running Windows, the term "Windows PC" doesn't apply to you. No need to take offense.

But who really does?
The percentage of PC users that have escaped the death grip of Microsoft is microscopic.
The unfortunate fact is that the vast majority of Non-Apple Personal Computers are running Microsoft Windows, so the term "Windows PC" is sadly accurate in a general sort of way.

Kudos to Apple for developing the first real alternative to Windows that has gotten mainstream. Popularity counts because with it comes the clout that gets programs, drivers, accessories and whatever else developed for the platform.

While Linux is a valiant effort and a worthwhile alternative to Windows, it's just not popular enough. It's not the first time that something better got eclipsed by something awful. (I mean Windows, not OSX)

Have Fun,
Keri

costabunny
May 31, 2010, 09:25 AM
When it comes to defending my personal choice of computer - I guess I am an Apple Fangirl (new age one maybe?). But I am not sucking Steves you-know-what.

I enjoy a good debate with others about the pro's and con's of both worlds. Yes I am bias - but then so are Sony TV owners and Skoda drivers etc...

It's hard not to defend our own choices, and we would be soft not to do so. Doesn't mean we are all blind to the downsides.

I truly wish there was better game support (not that I would play many), and I do wish there was a little more flexibility in the app-store. But then our products would undoubtedly gain more 'issues'.

I have used both MS and Apple products over the years and while I wasn't entirely happy with either at times; didn't make me join either camp of haters.

I defended Vista. I defended Win 7, I hated WinME, I loved Leo and SnowLeo.

I suspect we are all fangirl/boys at some level.

ok, its a bank holiday and Ive just crawled out of bed (long night at work) and have to go to work in an hour or so; guess its that time for me to stop randomly bashing at the keys......

UTclassof89
May 31, 2010, 10:04 AM
"fanboy" is another of those terms that should be retired. It has no real meaning; it's only used by lazy people as a pejorative to discredit someone who makes a positive comment about something.

People should be able to make positive comments about Apple (or anyone else) without having to qualify it with "...but I'm not a fanboy--here are some off-topic things I don't like about them"

UrbanerMezei
May 31, 2010, 10:06 AM
I had a friend IRL actually become enraged and almost punch me for answering a question posed by another friend "What makes Mac impressive in your mind?".

IMO that is the definition of fanboyism, when you close your mind to any other view point in this case violently and without any reasoning at all.

KeriJane
May 31, 2010, 10:13 AM
I like and buy the stuff for the ease of use and the OS, but Apple products are overpriced, not as much as some may think they are, but they are overpriced for what you get.

When I bought my 2008 MBP, I was excited. I was thinking Id be getting a laptop that would last a good 3-5 years before I had any problems. Well, once it hit two years the optical drive failed.

I also dont like Apples way of trying to exert control over users who purchase their stuff, i.e. closed OS's on iphone and ipad. The apps available for these on the app store are a joke for the most part. The full potential of these items are only realized when they are jailbroken..

Dont get me wrong, I love Apple products, but they just arent all that some make them out to be.


Hello.


Aha... "Overpriced" is such an over-abused word.
Last time I checked, Price = What Seller will Take meets What Buyer will Pay.
Price too High = No Deal.
Apple doesn't seem to have any problem selling products at their price so, Price = Fair.
If you think Price is too high, Do Not Buy!
If you want to play the "Brand X charges this much" game, please go buy Brand X.


You're condemning an entire MacBook Pro because of an Optical Drive Failure a year after the warranty expired? If it's that big of an issue for you, why didn't you buy AppleCare?
How do we know what you've done to it? An Optical Drive can fail for all sorts of reasons, not all of them Apple's fault.
It's a shame that you've experienced a failure but stuff breaks. Now if the Logic Board had gone, THAT would be Bad. Again, not necessarily Apple's fault but Bad.


What you call "Apple exerting Control over Users" is just their little way of protecting their reputation and profits.

Imagine if iPhones and iPads were "Open" to anything at all. Flash alone would kill battery life and perceived reliability, thus increasing Dissatisfaction, Returns and Warranty repairs. There goes Profits and Reputation.

Or maybe open them up to File Sharing, Illegal Gambling, Pron, or whatever. Do you think Apple wants Lawyers pestering them all day? Maybe lose a Lawsuit or two?

Apple doesn't "Close" systems to control your life... they do it to protect themselves from the actions of others.

If you don't like it, buy something else or Jailbreak it. Either way, Apple is not responsible for your actions.


Believe it or not, I'm not being an Apple Fangirl here! The same principles apply to ALL companies, not just Apple.
Even the ones selling inferior, Windows-infected products.


Have Fun
Keri

KeriJane
May 31, 2010, 11:11 AM
"fanboy" is another of those terms that should be retired. It has no real meaning; it's only used by lazy people as a pejorative to discredit someone who makes a positive comment about something.

People should be able to make positive comments about Apple (or anyone else) without having to qualify it with "...but I'm not a fanboy--here are some off-topic things I don't like about them"

Hello.

"Fanboy" / "Fangirl" are perfectly good terms that have no need of retirement or apology. Like many other perfectly good words, they can be used in a negative or positive manner.

They're also easier to spell than "Cheerleader" and get the point across with just one word.

I say go ahead and unabashedly make your positive comments. Do not worry about dredging up some negative things to say in the interests of appearing "fair".

There's no pleasing the critics so my advice is to not try. Just say your piece.

Member of the Apple Cheerleading Squad,
Keri

citizenzen
May 31, 2010, 11:25 AM
"fanboy" is another of those terms that should be retired.

I'll agree with this.

Some want to take people who like a product and then exaggerate their loyalty to absurd levels. Just like conservatives have done by trying to paint Obama as the "Messiah" of liberals.

Uhhh... no.

Obama is just another politician, albeit a better choice than most any conservative. And Apple is just another computer, albeit a better choice than most any PC.

notjustjay
May 31, 2010, 11:29 AM
My definition of "fanboy" is someone who takes the side of a company without any reasonable rational basis for making that decision. And it's not just Apple. I have a friend who works at Home Depot and I feel he takes an unreasonable interest in the company. There's loving your job, and then there's... being a fanboy. Every time I do a home renovation or purchase something construction or house related, he'll ask "Did you buy it at Home Depot?" or say "Ah, but if you were to buy it at Home Depot, we'd be able to offer you installation services" or something inane like that. When pressed, he can offer no real rational reason for trying to persuade me to buy everything at Home Depot -- he just really, really likes the company (or likes representing the company as an employee -- same thing). You'd think he was on commission, or a shareholder, but he's not. I call that being a fanboy.

They will also buy "blindly" from the company without objective evaluation. A DeWalt fanboy will need a new drill and immediately run out and buy a DeWalt drill, without even looking to see what Bosch, Makita, Milwaukee, Ridgid are offering, and whether or not one of those brands just might offer better quality or a better price. It's simply unthinkable to own a tool that's not painted yellow.

I like Apple. I own Apple products. And to some extent, Apple products beget more Apple products -- they work well together and that can be a swaying factor. But I still try to look at everything objectively. (Just like if I already have DeWalt cordless tools, the fact that I can share the batteries and chargers might be a huge factor in leaning me toward more DeWalt tools -- but that still won't stop me from considering other brands.) I recognize that Apple products -- and the company itself -- have faults. Something most fanboys refuse to acknowledge.

citizenzen
May 31, 2010, 11:49 AM
My definition of "fanboy" is someone who takes the side of a company without any reasonable rational basis for making that decision.

So by your definition, "fanboys" are insane.

Anybody want to admit to insanity?

miles01110
May 31, 2010, 11:52 AM
So by your definition, "fanboys" are insane.

Anybody want to admit to insanity?

Based on your posting history nobody should expect you to have anything productive to add to this discussion. You're part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Also, notjustjay's definition of a fanboy is someone who follows blindly. Insane? Maybe. Ignorant? Definitely.

Stella
May 31, 2010, 11:53 AM
So by your definition, "fanboys" are insane.

Anybody want to admit to insanity?

I wouldn't say insane, but instead, "tunnel vision".

KeriJane
May 31, 2010, 12:07 PM
So by your definition, "fanboys" are insane.

Anybody want to admit to insanity?


That's just your take of notjustlays definition.

Other people could take a less extreme definition like Wikipedias:

fan(person) boy/girl - A fan, sometimes also called aficionado or supporter, is a person with an intense, occasionally overwhelming liking and enthusiasm for something. Fans of a particular thing or person constitute its fanbase or fandom. They often show their enthusiasm by starting a fan club, holding fan conventions, creating fanzines, writing fan mail, or promoting the object of their interest and attention.

Liking something or someone a lot does not necessarily indicate Insanity.

If you have any preference for a specific Car or Sports Team, you'd fall into this category too!

For me, other than Apple products it's priceless figurines, specifically Giuseppe Armani. :p
Oh, and IKEA furniture.

.oot sdrawkcaB sgniht gnitirw dna ,hO

Have a Fun kind of InSanItY,
Keri

roadbloc
May 31, 2010, 12:23 PM
Aha... "Overpriced" is such an over-abused word.

No it isn't. Just because people buy it, it doesn't mean it isn't overpriced. After-all, we are only 10/11% of the market share.

For the price of a Mac Pro, you could build something twice as powerful. That means Apple's profit is higher than other hardware companies. True, OS X does deserve a little more than Windows, but not as much as they are getting. And there is nothing else you are paying for except maybe a lovely cloth to wipe your screen with (which was what came with my macbook).

That, to me, is overpriced.

Have fun.
Roadbloc.

notjustjay
May 31, 2010, 12:30 PM
Other people could take a less extreme definition like Wikipedias:

fan(person) boy/girl - A fan, sometimes also called aficionado or supporter, is a person with an intense, occasionally overwhelming liking and enthusiasm for something.

There's a difference between being a fan and a fanboy. I'm a fan of Apple products, sure. I like 'em, use 'em, recommend 'em to others, I even hang out on Apple related websites. I'm a fan, but not a fanboy.

citizenzen
May 31, 2010, 12:32 PM
Based on your posting history nobody should expect you to have anything productive to add to this discussion.

lol. I have a history.

And my moms said i'd never amount to anything.

KeriJane
May 31, 2010, 12:33 PM
No it isn't. Just because people buy it, it doesn't mean it isn't overpriced. After-all, we are only 10/11% of the market share.

For the price of a Mac Pro, you could build something twice as powerful. That means Apple's profit is higher than other hardware companies. True, OS X does deserve a little more than Windows, but not as much as they are getting. And there is nothing else you are paying for except maybe a lovely cloth to wipe your screen with (which was what came with my macbook).

That, to me, is overpriced.

Have fun.
Roadbloc.



Then..... Don't Buy One!
Go right ahead and build your twice as fast computer.

But for the rest of us who consider the Mac Pro to be an invaluable tool....
It's a Great Value.
For Us, the people that utilize even a tiny portion of its vast potential.



Just because it's "Overpriced" for YOU doesn't mean that other people consider it so.
Just look at what used ones go for. Low Depreciation is a pretty good indicator of Value.

Mac Pro:
One of the great all-time BARGAINS in the computing world. (Keri's Definition)

Have Fun on a Rainy Day, Debate!
Keri

KeriJane
May 31, 2010, 12:36 PM
There's a difference between being a fan and a fanboy. I'm a fan of Apple products, sure. I like 'em, use 'em, recommend 'em to others, I even hang out on Apple related websites. I'm a fan, but not a fanboy.

Well, we can work on that and get you up to speed. ;)

Care for some Kool Aid?
It's Cherry Flavor!

Have Fun,
Keri

KingYaba
May 31, 2010, 09:54 PM
$5 says the writer wrote up this article after visiting 4chan's technology board.