PDA

View Full Version : A new Mac Mini could potentially make me hold my breath longer for a new MBA...




Huubster
Jun 5, 2010, 02:51 PM
I use my MBA as my primary computer, but it is running short for some things I want to do...
Anyway, this has been discussed over and over again by all of us. Now to the point:

Now, with all the very strong evidence of a new Mac Mini coming up, and no evidence at all for a new MBA I actually start to see another possibility.

In case the MBA doesn't receive an update coming Tuesday...I might actually opt for a Mac Mini as my primary machine and make the MBA my secondary computer for on the road...

Crossing my fingers for iX on that one...



Kobekes
Jun 5, 2010, 02:54 PM
...or sell the macbook air and buy an iPad for the road (+ mini @home)

Huubster
Jun 5, 2010, 02:59 PM
...or sell the macbook air and buy an iPad for the road (+ mini @home)

I have recently borrowed an iPad. No way it can replace my MBA. Not even partially. Not even remotely.

I use my MBA as my primary computer, but it is running short for some things I want to do...

Why do you think I am saying this?

Joel Horn
Jun 5, 2010, 03:20 PM
Does anyone know how many MBAs have sold and whether that number is meaningful to Apple?

I currently use a MBP 15" and would prefer less weight, smaller size for travel. Of course, I am probably going to buy the MBP 13" but actually don't need that much horsepower. But, a big step down to current MBA. So if the MBA gets a decent upgrade it could be perfect for me. It seems like Apple doesn't really care about the MBA anymore.

And is it all speculation anyway or is there a way to see what they are thinking by knowing the size of the MBA market versus other products?

Cheffy Dave
Jun 5, 2010, 03:26 PM
Patience Grasshopper! All will be revealed to you on Monday;)
Yes you will have the touch screen MBA:eek:

pharmx
Jun 5, 2010, 03:33 PM
Patience Grasshopper! All will be revealed to you on Monday;)
Yes you will have the touch screen MBA:eek:

Or an iPad running Mac OSX right? ;)

Huubster
Jun 5, 2010, 03:34 PM
Patience Grasshopper! All will be revealed to you on Monday;)

hahaa! :D cheers :cool:

Yes you will have the touch screen MBA:eek:

I think I'll switch to a feather with ink and some good old paper the day that happens! :p
With an Apple logo on it..please...

"POING"

Or an iPad running Mac OSX right? ;)

Naah. A touch screen turd will do. As long as it has the Apple logo on it it will be a big success anyway! ;)

gwsat
Jun 5, 2010, 04:45 PM
Does anyone know how many MBAs have sold and whether that number is meaningful to Apple?
I suspect that your question may have been rhetorical. In the event it wasn't however, Apple announced on Monday that it had sold more than 2 million iPads in the less than two months since it was released (http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_15199269?nclick_check=1). Yikes! If Apple decides to keep its eye on the iPhone OS based devices prize, that's got to be one of the big reasons why.

halledise
Jun 5, 2010, 06:00 PM
Apple may slip in a new Mini and Air but basically WWDC will be all about iPhone4, iPad gloating and the CLOUD, baby - no new version of iWork except the acceleration of all things that are cloud-based and iWork is one of them yet to be exploited

Scottsdale
Jun 5, 2010, 07:21 PM
On my list of "wants" - MacBook Air, Mac mini Server, AppleTV, Apple Cinema Displays

I am right there with you. I believe a new Mac mini will give me something to do while I am waiting on a new MBA. However, I hope to not "need" to wait however, I fear it will be likely. Nevertheless, I plan to buy a new Mac mini Server as soon as it's updated to the Nvidia 320m. I want to use the mini for an AppleTV replacement too if the AppleTV isn't updated. I also want to run an ElGato TV tuner on the Mac mini Server. I also plan for it to be my "Windows" machine and setup a VM on it. That way I could get Windows off my MBA if I wanted to. I am not really concerned about the space on my MBA though. I would really love for the new Mac mini to have dual MDPs. It makes sense with Apple probably releasing new ACDs and eliminating the DVI ports.

I definitely am also looking forward to some new LED ACDs. I believe Apple will introduce two new ACDs. We all have read about the 27" LED ACD on the way, but I also learned of a 32.5/33" LED ACD planned (the size was "guesstimated" but was thought to be around 33" but was told 32.5" one time). I guess we will see. I want to buy one of those Mini Display Port to dual MDP out "splitters" if the new Mac mini doesn't have dual MDPs. That MDP "splitter" works with two 24" LED ACDs, so I hope it works on the new larger LED ACDs. Anyways, I hope to buy two of the largest LED ACDs Apple offers, and I hope they work natively with dual MDP ports on the mini.

What displays is everyone else using nowadays? Is anyone else waiting for these new LED ACDs? What else are people doing with Mac minis now? I suppose an external BluRay Drive will be perfect for Windows on the mini. It's too bad that Mac OS X doesn't at least support BluRay even though Apple is too cheap to put them in Macs. Are there any "fun" mods for Mac minis? Anyone think Apple will change the design or plastic color of the next Minis?

I guess I could just find the Mac mini forum section, LOL. Nice to see this thread in the MBA section. It is funny how we all are seeming to have planned out having to wait for an MBA update. It is like deep down we all know Apple will PROBABLY disappoint us. Is it me, or does everyone else feel the same? I still think the MBA update is coming, I just feel it will be an Nvidia 320m update some Tuesday after WWDC.

thinkdesign
Jun 6, 2010, 07:16 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

Joel Horn: What we do have is that recent pie chart, showing the overall breakdown of Apple's (IIRC) profit sources. Unfortunately, all the Mac computers were lumped into one category. Of course the scary thing about it was that the pdone and the iPad are more than half of the $. The toys and the App Store have now financially dominated the company. (And the trend may worsen... partly because... if I understand this and other forums correctly, Apple is less constrained by others with devices using the iPhone operating system, compared with the Macs being at the mercy of the chip wars, etc.) ---- But is there TRULY no info on Air' sales ? ? ? Not even from the Taiwanese tech press? Cant't they/we at least find out... how many days each year, the 'Air'-making factory is making them (?) ... and compare that w/ similar data for other Mac models... enabling an analyst to deduce a guesstimate to show what % of Macs each model/size comprises?

Huubster
Jun 15, 2010, 09:46 AM
Tired of waiting for new MBA - Check
Vaio Z is problematic with Ubuntu - Check
The new Mac Mini seems very cool - Check
Buy a new Mac Mini and make my MBA secondary - ....

Checklist almost complete...still waiting till the end of the month

Monolythix
Jun 15, 2010, 11:39 AM
Does anyone know how many MBAs have sold and whether that number is meaningful to Apple?
(...)
And is it all speculation anyway or is there a way to see what they are thinking by knowing the size of the MBA market versus other products?

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)
But is there TRULY no info on Air' sales ? ? ? Not even from the Taiwanese tech press? Cant't they/we at least find out... how many days each year, the 'Air'-making factory is making them (?) ... and compare that w/ similar data for other Mac models... enabling an analyst to deduce a guesstimate to show what % of Macs each model/size comprises?

Hi all, I'm new here and also in the market for a new MBA. Thought it could be interesting for you guys to join in, as I'm an ex-Apple store employee from The Netherlands. I'm not aware of any rules that prohibit me from sharing any information on sales, but I keep my fingers crossed as we're all becoming desperate for some information that might help us to decide wether to wait for an update or to go with the old model (or another model such as the MBP).

First of all, as you may assume, store employees don't know anything more about product updates as you guys do. For us it's just speculation too, although some of my colleagues like to pretend that they know more than the customers who come into the shops :) Only a few people over at Cupertino know what\s going on and even then things are covered up with red lights above the door, you've probably read this stuff too.

Secondly, the shops in The Netherlands are dependent on distributors, so no information about stock capacity is known, too.

Then about the MBA sales figures. I didn't have access to detailed information, but my estimate from experience as a salesman is that for every 15-20 portable Macs that are sold, 1 MBA is sold. Mostly it's people who already own a desktop or fast portable and want to have something for traveling or presentation purposes. Although sales are significantly lower than the other portables, they have been steady for a long period of time (at least until I quit). Therefore I'm convinced that the MBA will live despite the introduction of the iPad. Keep in mind that the sales figures in the US or other countries might be different from those of Western-Europe.

Ok I have been doubting wether to share this with you guys but since the Mini update today and still no MBA update, I decided to go for it.

wildjohn999
Jun 15, 2010, 01:16 PM
Buy a new Mac Mini and make my MBA secondary

Buy a new iMac i7 and make my MBA secondary, or at least that is what I did. :D

But seriously, today's update of the mini gives me hope that the MBA is next or at least coming really soon.

Scottsdale
Jun 15, 2010, 01:30 PM
I really wish the 27" and 32.5/33" LED-backlit Apple Cinema Displays were updated. Why does Apple refuse to update so many of its products? There are still plenty of reasons for a Mac media event.

I am really done thinking the MBA will be updated soon. I suspect October or January now seem the most realistic.

One problem with the Mac mini today is the damned HDMI. I know some like it, but I would have much preferred two Mini Display Port outs. That way we could connect two new LED ACDs. With the HDMI, it limits that port basically to a flat panel TV. I think the users could buy a $29 MDP to HDMI with sound just fine. Or include the thing if they thought it was necessary.

I am going to buy the Mac mini Server. I plan to use it as a media server and for some web stuff. It should be pretty fun to mess around with. I really like having the server software even if I don't fully utilize it. I also like the idea of connecting a BluRay drive to it and running Windows on it.

At least it will be something to mess with while we're all waiting for a damned MBA update.

gwsat
Jun 15, 2010, 01:48 PM
One problem with the Mac mini today is the damned HDMI. I know some like it, but I would have much preferred two Mini Display Port outs. That way we could connect two new LED ACDs. With the HDMI, it limits that port basically to a flat panel TV. I think the users could buy a $29 MDP to HDMI with sound just fine. Or include the thing if they thought it was necessary.

I am going to buy the Mac mini Server. I plan to use it as a media server and for some web stuff. It should be pretty fun to mess around with. I really like having the server software even if I don't fully utilize it. I also like the idea of connecting a BluRay drive to it and running Windows on it.
I am surprised that you don't like the addition of an HDMI port but plan to use a Mac mini Server as a media server. An HDMI port seems to me to be nearly a necessity with any home theater component. That's why the Apple TV has HDMI. I understand that the Mini Display Port can pass both video and audio signals to an HDMI equipped device with the proper adapter but that the adapters are expensive. I think that the HDMI port is a major selling point. I like the idea of simply having an HDMI port from the get go.

I agree that a Windows installation would be a natural for a Mac mini that you intended to use as a media center. I would certainly do the same thing.

skate71290
Jun 15, 2010, 03:59 PM
I am surprised that you don't like the addition of an HDMI port but plan to use a Mac mini Server as a media server. An HDMI port seems to me to be nearly a necessity with any home theater component. That's why the Apple TV has HDMI. I understand that the Mini Display Port can pass both video and audio signals to an HDMI equipped device with the proper adapter but that the adapters are expensive. I think that the HDMI port is a major selling point. I like the idea of simply having an HDMI port from the get go.

I agree that a Windows installation would be a natural for a Mac mini that you intended to use as a media center. I would certainly do the same thing.

With HDMI on the Mini it has put the Apple TV into an empty grave and started to pour concrete on top of it, while yes there is a price difference, the capabilities of the Mini would far surpass the Apple Tv and provide as a fully functional computer capable of running 1080p MKV and Mac/Windows games, whereas the Apple TV is not capable of either

dudulang
Jun 15, 2010, 04:14 PM
Learning the updates of MB and mac mini, i guess the pending MBA refresh may have 2GB RAM, slightly improved C2D CPU and 320m GPU. if so, I would not buy with a 2GB ram.

halledise
Jun 15, 2010, 07:20 PM
Learning the updates of MB and mac mini, i guess the pending MBA refresh may have 2GB RAM, slightly improved C2D CPU and 320m GPU. if so, I would not buy with a 2GB ram.

if Apple decide to go that way, then will more than likely do 4 gb of memory and charge you accordingly

but everyone seems so hung up on 4gb of memory these days.

the wife's MB has stock 2gb of DDR3 memory and it's fast & fine for what she does. (admittedly she does have the option of upping it to 4 gb)

I find the same in my Air - it's fast and fine with the similar intelligent pairing of processor (with 6mb of L2 cache which I might add makes a big difference to performance right there), nVidia graphics and SSD.

then again, I use the machine for that for which it was designed and if Apple release a specced up RevD with faster CPU/GPU and 4 gigglebytes of memory, I'll probably update when the tax refund cheque arrives, but I still probably won't be doing serious Photoshop or video editing on it.
for that we use the MB Pro baby.

it's horses for courses really and my Air is as fine for me now as it was this time last year when I bought it.

I'm patient and content (well in this area anyways!)

cleric
Jun 15, 2010, 08:04 PM
I think the price increase on the new mac mini is kind of lame, for negligible performance upgrades. You seem to be mostly paying for redesign and hdmi/sdcard slots.

gwsat
Jun 15, 2010, 09:34 PM
With HDMI on the Mini it has put the Apple TV into an empty grave and started to pour concrete on top of it, while yes there is a price difference, the capabilities of the Mini would far surpass the Apple Tv and provide as a fully functional computer capable of running 1080p MKV and Mac/Windows games, whereas the Apple TV is not capable of either
I agree that the Apple TV is as dead as a mackerel. I have had mine for a year and half but have used it only as a movie file server for more than a year. A Mac mini could do that easily, of course, plus a bunch more.

if Apple decide to go that way, then will more than likely do 4 gb of memory and charge you accordingly

but everyone seems so hung up on 4gb of memory these days.

the wife's MB has stock 2gb of DDR3 memory and it's fast & fine for what she does. (admittedly she does have the option of upping it to 4 gb)

I find the same in my Air - it's fast and fine with the similar intelligent pairing of processor (with 6mb of L2 cache which I might add makes a big difference to performance right there), nVidia graphics and SSD.

then again, I use the machine for that for which it was designed and if Apple release a specced up RevD with faster CPU/GPU and 4 gigglebytes of memory, I'll probably update when the tax refund cheque arrives, but I still probably won't be doing serious Photoshop or video editing on it.
for that we use the MB Pro baby.

it's horses for courses really and my Air is as fine for me now as it was this time last year when I bought it.

I'm patient and content (well in this area anyways!)
I agree that, even now, 2Gb of RAM remains plenty for many users. Unfortunately, I am not one of them because of my dependence on running Windows in a VMware Fusion virtual machine, a big time memory hog. Nevertheless, I thought that Apple's decision to raise the price of the Mac mini substantially but still put only 2Gb of RAM in it was irresponsible. The de facto standard for RAM these days is 4Gb and Apple should have honored it, it seems to me.

robotmonkey
Jun 15, 2010, 10:39 PM
Get a 13 inch pro ;)

Performance of the mini with the portability of the air. Done.

dudulang
Jun 16, 2010, 01:07 AM
I agree that, even now, 2Gb of RAM remains plenty for many users. Unfortunately, I am not one of them because of my dependence on running Windows in a VMware Fusion virtual machine, a big time memory hog. Nevertheless, I thought that Apple's decision to raise the price of the Mac mini substantially but still put only 2Gb of RAM in it was irresponsible. The de facto standard for RAM these days is 4Gb and Apple should have honored it, it seems to me.

agree, I'm an electronics university student, so I have to run windows on my mac to run some windows-only simulation applications or programming applications. I don't need a good GPU, but 4GB ram and more SSD storage is important for me.

Duncanreally
Jun 16, 2010, 03:35 AM
So I reluctantly ordered a 13" MBP, with everything maxed out (8GB + 512GBSSD). Annoyingly I also needed to order the 75 dual link DVI adaptor to use it with my 30"ACD (which is the most neglected Apple product!).

D

Scottsdale
Jun 16, 2010, 04:10 AM
I am surprised that you don't like the addition of an HDMI port but plan to use a Mac mini Server as a media server. An HDMI port seems to me to be nearly a necessity with any home theater component. That's why the Apple TV has HDMI. I understand that the Mini Display Port can pass both video and audio signals to an HDMI equipped device with the proper adapter but that the adapters are expensive. I think that the HDMI port is a major selling point. I like the idea of simply having an HDMI port from the get go.

I agree that a Windows installation would be a natural for a Mac mini that you intended to use as a media center. I would certainly do the same thing.

With HDMI, I cannot use two LED ACDs. If there were two MDPs, then anyone could use two LED ACDs or any combination also using an HDMI(s) with a convertor. We cannot convert HDMI and it's far less capable than MDP. I am surprised and disappointed. I would have thought Apple would be happy giving us sound on MDP and allowing people to buy or even include one HDMI convertor. It's disappointing for anyone that wants to use the Mm with actual computer displays. I just think people could buy the $29 convertor if they want to attach a non-Apple flat panel TV. With two MDPs, Apple could sell extra LED ACDs to those of us who enjoy the much better displays than TVs offer for ACTUAL COMPUTING which is why we're buying Mac minis and not AppleTV or Google TV equipment.

gwsat
Jun 16, 2010, 09:10 AM
With HDMI, I cannot use two LED ACDs. If there were two MDPs, then anyone could use two LED ACDs or any combination also using an HDMI(s) with a convertor. We cannot convert HDMI and it's far less capable than MDP. I am surprised and disappointed. I would have thought Apple would be happy giving us sound on MDP and allowing people to buy or even include one HDMI convertor. It's disappointing for anyone that wants to use the Mm with actual computer displays. I just think people could buy the $29 convertor if they want to attach a non-Apple flat panel TV. With two MDPs, Apple could sell extra LED ACDs to those of us who enjoy the much better displays than TVs offer for ACTUAL COMPUTING which is why we're buying Mac minis and not AppleTV or Google TV equipment.
You have a point. I had understood, wrongly it appears, that Mini Display Port to HDMI adapters were every expensive. Apparently, though, they are available for less that $30. Thus, while Apple's decision to make one of its video ports HDMI only certainly makes marketing sense, it probably makes less sense when viewed from a purely technical perspective.

Scottsdale
Jun 16, 2010, 09:31 AM
You have a point. I had understood, wrongly it appears, that Mini Display Port to HDMI adapters were every expensive. Apparently, though, they are available for less that $30. Thus, while Apple's decision to make one of its video ports HDMI only certainly makes marketing sense, it probably makes less sense when viewed from a purely technical perspective.

Absolutely. And that's my point. With two MDPs, we could use two ACDs. Why wouldn't Apple want that capability to sell two ACDs? I guess their hope would be to get people to buy MPs then? Heck, it just doesn't make sense to me especially with Apple adding sound to MDP. It would allow people to buy two new 27" LED ACDs when they're released. It would allow people to connect one HDMI flat panel TV and an LED ACD. The HDMI limits more than the DVI did before it. It's installing a far inferior capability to allow people to connect their flat panel TVs without an adaptor. I guess for those wanting inferiority it's acceptable as it's cheap and cheap is what people want nowadays. Excuse me for expecting more from Apple.

Spacekatgal
Jun 16, 2010, 10:26 AM
Absolutely. And that's my point. With two MDPs, we could use two ACDs. Why wouldn't Apple want that capability to sell two ACDs? I guess their hope would be to get people to buy MPs then? Heck, it just doesn't make sense to me especially with Apple adding sound to MDP. It would allow people to buy two new 27" LED ACDs when they're released. It would allow people to connect one HDMI flat panel TV and an LED ACD. The HDMI limits more than the DVI did before it. It's installing a far inferior capability to allow people to connect their flat panel TVs without an adaptor. I guess for those wanting inferiority it's acceptable as it's cheap and cheap is what people want nowadays. Excuse me for expecting more from Apple.

This isn't hard to figure out. I know many people, including the developer of the uber popular app "Deliveries," that use their Mac Mini as a cheap file server. An HDMI port lets them hook ITMS content up to their TV, which is not a bad idea since Apple TV can't output in high-definition. The HDMI is the best feature of the new Mac Mini.

I love the ADC. I used to have two with my MacPro, but sold the second one. It's a great product - but I think it's pretty obvious that more people would use an HDMI output than a second MDP.

This is the most tempting feature of the new Mac Mini. I'd look into buying it, if I weren't certain a new Apple TV is just over the horizon.

gwsat
Jun 16, 2010, 11:31 AM
This isn't hard to figure out. I know many people, including the developer of the uber popular app "Deliveries," that use their Mac Mini as a cheap file server. An HDMI port lets them hook ITMS content up to their TV, which is not a bad idea since Apple TV can't output in high-definition. The HDMI is the best feature of the new Mac Mini.

I love the ADC. I used to have two with my MacPro, but sold the second one. It's a great product - but I think it's pretty obvious that more people would use an HDMI output than a second MDP.

This is the most tempting feature of the new Mac Mini. I'd look into buying it, if I weren't certain a new Apple TV is just over the horizon.
As noted in earlier posts, I think the addition of an HDMI port to the Mac mini is terrific. Most of us who have home theaters have a plentitude of HDMI cables but few have Mini Display Port to HDMI adapters. Fewer still know that the MDP now supports both video and audio. Thus, on balance, I think that Apple has really provided the greatest good to the greatest number by adding the HDMI port.

I don't plan on updating my Apple TV. I may ultimately replace it with one of the new Mac minis but it seems to me that even an updated Apple TV would be far too proprietary and limited compared to the Mac mini, which is a real computer.

Spacekatgal
Jun 16, 2010, 11:42 AM
As noted in earlier posts, I think the addition of an HDMI port to the Mac mini is terrific. Most of us who have home theaters have a plentitude of HDMI cables but few have Mini Display Port to HDMI adapters. Fewer still know that the MDP now supports both video and audio. Thus, on balance, I think that Apple has really provided the greatest good to the greatest number by adding the HDMI port.

I don't plan on updating my Apple TV. I may ultimately replace it with one of the new Mac minis but it seems to me that even an updated Apple TV would be far too proprietary and limited compared to the Mac mini, which is a real computer.

Yeah! ^_^ Totally agree. That news is FABULOUS! And who wants to use some clunky dongle on the back of their machine? How totally unApplelike!

I really feel your tergiversation about Apple TV. I don't feel burned in having bought mine, but I totally agree it's a mediocre device. I feel pretty strongly that if Apple updates it, it will run a variant of iOS, and will be expanded vastly in functionality.

I'll withhold judgement until I see a product. Until then, if I were building a new theatre, I'd use this Mac Mini as the centerpiece!

gwsat
Jun 16, 2010, 12:53 PM
I really feel your tergiversation about Apple TV. I don't feel burned in having bought mine, but I totally agree it's a mediocre device. I feel pretty strongly that if Apple updates it, it will run a variant of iOS, and will be expanded vastly in functionality.

I'll withhold judgement until I see a product. Until then, if I were building a new theatre, I'd use this Mac Mini as the centerpiece!
I bought an Apple TV, about two-and-a-half years ago, right after Apple started making HD movies available on iTunes. Although the resolution was only 720p, that was all my HDTV was capable at the time. I soon gave up on HD movies from iTunes, though, because at $4.99 each the rental price for new releases was way too high. I then started systematically ripping my DVD movies and converting them to M4V format, so that I could play them on the Apple TV via iTunes.

Six months after I got the Apple TV I bought a Blu-ray player and a Pioneer plasma 60 inch HDTV with 1080p resolution. Ever since, I have watched new releases exclusively on BD. I rent my BDs under subscription plans from Netflix for mail order and Blockbuster for in store exchanges. Those subscription plans have been far more cost effective than anyone's online rental offers are. I do buy a few BDs, but not many.

I have a pretty good home theater, if I do say so myself, so a new Mac mini would be a good fit for it. I'm not ready to do it yet but very well may sometime in the future. Until and unless Apple includes a real Web browser with Flash support in a new Apple TV, I won't be in the market for one. I will never again rent online content from iTunes, or anybody else who insists on selling it a la carte at extortionate prices.

pharmx
Jun 16, 2010, 06:00 PM
Yeah! ^_^ Totally agree. That news is FABULOUS! And who wants to use some clunky dongle on the back of their machine? How totally unApplelike!

I really feel your tergiversation about Apple TV. I don't feel burned in having bought mine, but I totally agree it's a mediocre device. I feel pretty strongly that if Apple updates it, it will run a variant of iOS, and will be expanded vastly in functionality.

I'll withhold judgement until I see a product. Until then, if I were building a new theatre, I'd use this Mac Mini as the centerpiece!

I posted this somewhere already, but just in case you guys missed it, looks like Apple is definitely planning on updating ATV, it will run iOS, and looks pretty damn cool: link (http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/28/the-next-apple-tv-revealed-cloud-storage-and-iphone-os-on-tap/)

Not sure how all of this will play out, or what Apple's long term goals are with respect to this "hobby", but I can definitely see the potential. I now understand why Nintendo is concerned...something like this could affect the Wii market, in addition to the increasing competition iOS devices are presenting to the DS etc.

Scottsdale
Jun 16, 2010, 09:33 PM
This isn't hard to figure out. I know many people, including the developer of the uber popular app "Deliveries," that use their Mac Mini as a cheap file server. An HDMI port lets them hook ITMS content up to their TV, which is not a bad idea since Apple TV can't output in high-definition. The HDMI is the best feature of the new Mac Mini.

I love the ADC. I used to have two with my MacPro, but sold the second one. It's a great product - but I think it's pretty obvious that more people would use an HDMI output than a second MDP.

This is the most tempting feature of the new Mac Mini. I'd look into buying it, if I weren't certain a new Apple TV is just over the horizon.

Personally, I think you're completely missing the point.

Spacekatgal
Jun 16, 2010, 10:17 PM
I get your point, dude. I had two ACDs. I know the frustration of trying to wire two of them into a Macpro. The cables are too short, and the higher end cards don't support ACD.

I think you're the one missing the point, actually Scotsdale. On my regular Mac board people are complaining like mad about the $200 price increase. Do you think the Mac Mini market are the same people buying a $900 ACD? Let alone clamoring too hook up two?

Frak no. They have crappy Dell monitors or whatever, and want to wire them so they get a computer on the cheap.

An HDMI port is obviously much more useful for the reasons above.

Bri

Scottsdale
Jun 16, 2010, 11:20 PM
I get your point, dude. I had two ACDs. I know the frustration of trying to wire two of them into a Macpro. The cables are too short, and the higher end cards don't support ACD.

I think you're the one missing the point, actually Scotsdale. On my regular Mac board people are complaining like mad about the $200 price increase. Do you think the Mac Mini market are the same people buying a $900 ACD? Let alone clamoring too hook up two?

Frak no. They have crappy Dell monitors or whatever, and want to wire them so they get a computer on the cheap.

An HDMI port is obviously much more useful for the reasons above.

Bri

They have included a $29 HDMI to DVI. If they're going to put a convertor in the deal, wouldn't we all be better with a much more capable second mini display port that "converts" to HDMI with sound out? That way people could connect their "crappy" HDMI connected components.

The point is we lost when EVERYONE could have "won." Apple could sell MORE LED ACDs. And those who couldn't afford the extravagant cost of an LED ACD could still install their "crappy" HDMI connected flat panel TV via the "included" MDP to HDMI convertor cable.

My "point" was not "got." Everybody is not poor. Why not focus on the POSSIBILITY that everyone is not poor and cannot pay $599 for two refurbished 24" LED ACDs. Apple could have pleased everyone much easier, and had the upside potential of selling extra LED ACDs. I actually think they're a complete bargain at $599. I have three of them, and I have bought four of them. There is no way to install two 24" LED ACDs, and that's frustrating and missing the opportunity to capitalize on another sale...

gwsat
Jun 17, 2010, 08:27 AM
Scottsdale -- Because of the way in which you would want to use a Mac mini, I understand your frustration with Apple's having eliminated one of the Mini Display Ports and replaced it with an HDMI port. I suspect, though, that few buyers of new Mac minis would share your concerns. It seems to me that potential buyers who want to use the new Mac mini in a home theater and welcome the change represent a hefty percentage of potential buyers. To such users, the presence of an HDMI connection on the Mac mini out of the box means that connecting it to an AV receiver or HDTV is as simple as finding an HDMI cable of the proper length. Anyway, that's why I think that Apple was right. After all, why shouldn't I appreciate not having to spend an extra $30 for an MDP to HDMI adapter?

raccoontail
Jun 17, 2010, 11:13 AM
Absolutely. And that's my point. With two MDPs, we could use two ACDs. Why wouldn't Apple want that capability to sell two ACDs? I guess their hope would be to get people to buy MPs then? Heck, it just doesn't make sense to me especially with Apple adding sound to MDP. It would allow people to buy two new 27" LED ACDs when they're released.

I think the HDMI port was a good call. Two 24" ACD's cost $1800. Very few people would attach them to $700 mini. 99% of people with that kind of display need would buy a 27" iMac and attach a single ACD, or buy a MP. The mini is used primarily in basic desktop settings, SOHO server applications, and home theater. The lack of an HDMI port hurt when it was compared it to competitive consumer offerings from Dell, etc. Having the HDMI port built in reassures consumers it's HDMI compatible. Even if a MDP->HDMI dongle had been included for free, it's still an inconvenience, and likely created consumer fear that there could be HDMI compatibility problems, even if that fear was unfounded.

Scottsdale
Jun 18, 2010, 12:23 AM
I think the HDMI port was a good call. Two 24" ACD's cost $1800. Very few people would attach them to $700 mini. 99% of people with that kind of display need would buy a 27" iMac and attach a single ACD, or buy a MP. The mini is used primarily in basic desktop settings, SOHO server applications, and home theater. The lack of an HDMI port hurt when it was compared it to competitive consumer offerings from Dell, etc. Having the HDMI port built in reassures consumers it's HDMI compatible. Even if a MDP->HDMI dongle had been included for free, it's still an inconvenience, and likely created consumer fear that there could be HDMI compatibility problems, even if that fear was unfounded.
Or they cost $599 each, the way I have bought my last three. Convertors cost $29. I am disappointed, and while many may not be, I am. The problem is there's no "converting the opposite way." That is the problem. The other way, EVERYONE could be happy! Including the MDP to HDMI would have made EVERYONE have ALL capabilities they wanted!

gwsat
Jun 18, 2010, 10:49 AM
Or they cost $599 each, the way I have bought my last three. Convertors cost $29. I am disappointed, and while many may not be, I am. The problem is there's no "converting the opposite way." That is the problem. The other way, EVERYONE could be happy! Including the MDP to HDMI would have made EVERYONE have ALL capabilities they wanted!
We are mostly all nerds around here, so I think that it's sometimes hard for us to understand that Apple's marketing, wisely it seems to me, is pitched at non-nerd potential users. I suggest that there are exponentially more of them than there are of us and that a hefty number of them have home theaters and have been waiting for a little Mac mini equipped with an HDMI port. I also suggest that most of them don't know and don't care that, with a VESA 1.3 capable MDP to HDMI converter, the Mini Display Ports on recent Macs are capable of transmitting video and audio to HDMI equipped HT components. Apple knows this, too, so they put an HDMI port in the Mac mini because they thought that doing so would do the greatest good for the greatest number.

Spacekatgal
Jun 18, 2010, 12:13 PM
We are mostly all nerds around here, so I think that it's sometimes hard for us to understand that Apple's marketing, wisely it seems to me, is pitched at non-nerd potential users. I suggest that there are exponentially more of them than there are of us and that a hefty number of them have home theaters and have been waiting for a little Mac mini equipped with an HDMI port. I also suggest that most of them don't know and don't care that, with a VESA 1.3 capable MDP to HDMI converter, the Mini Display Ports on recent Macs are capable of transmitting video and audio to HDMI equipped HT components. Apple knows this, too, so they put an HDMI port in the Mac mini because they thought that doing so would do the greatest good for the greatest number.

Totally. I think the target audience of the Mac Mini is just above the audience of the white Macbook. The white Macbook users I've known have been people with minimal interest in computers, attracted to Macs for the simplicity. They want the cheapest one they can find. They have no care that it will crack, no care that it has fewer ports, no care of the increased durability and resale of the aluminum. They just want cheap.

The Mac Mini owner is a step above that. They have a cheap monitor and keyboard already, and my God they aren't going to spend $1200 on an iMac. It's a waste of money when I already have a screen! They're technically minded, but they are cheap. The other part of the Mac Mini population are using it for a server.

Both sides of the Mac Mini population would be interested in wiring it into their home theater. Neither side is going to shell out $900 for an ADC, let alone two. One side is too cheap, the other side doesn't use it as a work machine.

Scottsdale
Jun 18, 2010, 02:58 PM
We are mostly all nerds around here, so I think that it's sometimes hard for us to understand that Apple's marketing, wisely it seems to me, is pitched at non-nerd potential users. I suggest that there are exponentially more of them than there are of us and that a hefty number of them have home theaters and have been waiting for a little Mac mini equipped with an HDMI port. I also suggest that most of them don't know and don't care that, with a VESA 1.3 capable MDP to HDMI converter, the Mini Display Ports on recent Macs are capable of transmitting video and audio to HDMI equipped HT components. Apple knows this, too, so they put an HDMI port in the Mac mini because they thought that doing so would do the greatest good for the greatest number.

But still... it's pointless saying this to many... but you know exactly what I am talking about. EVERYONE could have been happy and Apple could have announced out-of-the-box HDMI support with an included MDP with sound to HDMI instead of HDMI to DVI.

I know the marketing bit, but they could have marketed it with HDMI with an included cable. I just find it odd to not want to keep all customers happy and keep "potential" SALES up. The nature of their wanting to market to the HDMI market is great, ADD SOUND TO MDP and an HDMI convertor and everyone gets everything on their wish list... except all of those wanting a "relevant" Arrandale CPU... as to some here C2D is dead tech and worthless. We cannot go back from HDMI to MDP, and that's why the decision sucks for those who care and buy Apple's LED ACDs.

Spacekatgal
Jun 18, 2010, 04:09 PM
The benchmarks are out. It's a mediocre improvement at best.

http://www.macworld.com/article/151349/2010/06/macmini_mid2010.html

For $200 more? No thanks.

If Apple TV does go too long without being updated, I'll just buy an old Mac Mini on Craig's List. Though - with this model being such a minimal improvement, I doubt old ones will depreciate much.

Scottsdale
Jun 18, 2010, 05:13 PM
The benchmarks are out. It's a mediocre improvement at best.

http://www.macworld.com/article/151349/2010/06/macmini_mid2010.html

For $200 more? No thanks.

If Apple TV does go too long without being updated, I'll just buy an old Mac Mini on Craig's List. Though - with this model being such a minimal improvement, I doubt old ones will depreciate much.

You call a 100% GPU improvement "minimal?" :confused:

In addition, there's the "looks/design" improvements of a "unibody" Mac mini to look like shear perfection on top of the desk next to ONE LED ACD.

And add in your coveted HDMI?

Some people are NEVER happy.

EDIT... forgot to add the SDXC. Still minimal?

Spacekatgal
Jun 18, 2010, 05:39 PM
You call a 100% GPU improvement "minimal?" :confused:

In addition, there's the "looks/design" improvements of a "unibody" Mac mini to look like shear perfection on top of the desk next to ONE LED ACD.

And add in your coveted HDMI?

Some people are NEVER happy.

EDIT... forgot to add the SDXC. Still minimal?

The PS test is exactly the same. Even including the GPU, it's only 13 percent faster. Besides, that's a 320m, which is available is some sub $400 netbook devices. Not exactly state of the art. If anything, it just shows how deficient the old GPU was.

Their GPU test is framerate for COD4, which was made back when sabertooth tigers roamed the earth 6 million years ago, or whatever. Isn't that written in a universal binary? Show me 50 percent improvement with TF2, and MAYBE you'd have a point.

So, if you play 5 year old games, you can get a framerate increase. If you do actual PS work, expect nothing.

Bri

Scottsdale
Jun 18, 2010, 08:54 PM
The PS test is exactly the same. Even including the GPU, it's only 13 percent faster. Besides, that's a 320m, which is available is some sub $400 netbook devices. Not exactly state of the art. If anything, it just shows how deficient the old GPU was.

Their GPU test is framerate for COD4, which was made back when sabertooth tigers roamed the earth 6 million years ago, or whatever. Isn't that written in a universal binary? Show me 50 percent improvement with TF2, and MAYBE you'd have a point.

So, if you play 5 year old games, you can get a framerate increase. If you do actual PS work, expect nothing.

Bri

That's just the thing. The "average" Mac mini buyer isn't playing games. Sorta like your argument that it's normal for every Mac mini buyer to want HDMI. Those buying a "PC" for gaming will not be buying a mini, but the mini with its 320m is actually getting pretty good reviews from other sites like Engadget or Apple Insider.

Apple says, up to 2X faster than previous generation Mac mini.
2.0X Quake 4
1.9X COD 4
1.9X Doom 3

I would call 2X about 100% faster.

... http://www.apple.com/macmini/features.html#performer

We all know that Core 2 Duo is dead to you and worthless. So I would have never thought you would be happy with a Mac mini, but then you are NOT the target market for the Mac mini. For some reason you spend your life in the MBA forum but don't own one and just hate it and every other Mac with a C2D CPU in them. As the complete system performance wouldn't do the most good for the most people, as some believe an Arrandale CPU is everything.

I am placing my order at the end of the month. Me, an actual buyer, has opinions about it that might be to the contrary of many, but at least I am buying one... others make arguments or rip on "the little mini that could" but were never target buyer(s) to begin with.

I, like many, will be buying the Mac mini Server model. I plan to connect an external BluRay drive to it, and have a perfect BootCamp/Windows 7 BluRay player... and OS X server when doing anything else. I will be connecting one LED ACD to it, and I suppose the HDMI might as well go to my flat panel Sony. However, I certainly would have been really happy connecting two 27" LED ACDs to this thing had it shipped with two MDPs. I look forward to it, and I am not going to discount it based on its GPU nor CPU, as it fits my needs for a media server and "backup" Windows 7 PC.

Cheffy Dave
Jun 19, 2010, 09:12 AM
We are mostly all nerds around here, so I think that it's sometimes hard for us to understand that Apple's marketing, wisely it seems to me, is pitched at non-nerd potential users. I suggest that there are exponentially more of them than there are of us and that a hefty number of them have home theaters and have been waiting for a little Mac mini equipped with an HDMI port. I also suggest that most of them don't know and don't care that, with a VESA 1.3 capable MDP to HDMI converter, the Mini Display Ports on recent Macs are capable of transmitting video and audio to HDMI equipped HT components. Apple knows this, too, so they put an HDMI port in the Mac mini because they thought that doing so would do the greatest good for the greatest number.

I totally agree, the package would be complete with Blu-Ray, but that won't stop me from getting one:eek:

Cheffy Dave
Jun 19, 2010, 09:28 AM
I have a huge XP tower hooked behind my 55" Samsung LED via HDMI solely for the purpose of going on line, as I have a Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray Player. I see how the players inclusion will/would have completed the package, but for me, the Mini will replace this huge tower very nicely, the electricity savings alone will be worth it, along with the SILENCE!;):cool:

gwsat
Jun 19, 2010, 09:40 AM
I have a huge XP tower hooked behind my 55" Samsung LED via HDMI solely for the purpose of going on line, as I have a Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray Player. I see how the players inclusion will/would have completed the package, but for me, the Mini will replace this huge tower very nicely, the electricity savings alone will be worth it, along with the SILENCE!;):cool:
The Oppo BDP-83 may be the best BD player available these days, although, arguably at least, it is a little overpriced at $500. I have been using a Sony PS3 for more than two years and it has been great. I still don't have a computer dedicated to media, though. If Apple had put a BD drive in the new Mac Mini I probably would have bought one to use as my primary BD player. Apple's failure to come into the 21st Century and add BD drives to its computers is just one more example, the absence of Flash on the iPad being another, of Apple's antipathy to any technology developed by one of its competitors, think Sony and Adobe.

Scottsdale
Jun 19, 2010, 02:44 PM
The Oppo BDP-83 may be the best BD player available these days, although, arguably at least, it is a little overpriced at $500. I have been using a Sony PS3 for more than two years and it has been great. I still don't have a computer dedicated to media, though. If Apple had put a BD drive in the new Mac Mini I probably would have bought one to use as my primary BD player. Apple's failure to come into the 21st Century and add BD drives to its computers is just one more example, the absence of Flash on the iPad being another, of Apple's antipathy to any technology developed by one of its competitors, think Sony and Adobe.

I read somewhere just a few days ago that a person had bought a slot-load BluRay and put it in a Mac mini. Now, it did not work in OS X, but it did work just fine in Windows 7.

I plan to buy the server model myself, and I will just use an external BluRay disk player. They only cost around $90 on Amazon. The problem is they're ugly. I suppose I will put my optical drive in a drawer or behind some books on a book shelf nearby with a 6' USB cable. I suppose the standard model would look better, but I like the "idea" of having a "server" model. I might even decide to do some web stuff with it. It just sounds fun.

Decrepit
Jun 19, 2010, 03:52 PM
The Mac Mini owner is a step above that. They have a cheap monitor and keyboard already, and my God they aren't going to spend $1200 on an iMac. It's a waste of money when I already have a screen! They're technically minded, but they are cheap. The other part of the Mac Mini population are using it for a server.

Both sides of the Mac Mini population would be interested in wiring it into their home theater. Neither side is going to shell out $900 for an ADC, let alone two. One side is too cheap, the other side doesn't use it as a work machine.

Or, we might know better than to buy all all-in-one since the LCD will last three generations of computer. So when your iMac dies or is obsolete, and your display becomes useless, I'm sitting here with the same three LCDs, and I swap out the Mini.

But you're right, we're just too cheap for an iMac which is *way* better and can totally be moved over to the home theater, or the kitchen, or my car.

My server is a home built Linux box. I don't have to look at it, but it needs to host up my Time Machines, files, iTunes, etc.

The ACD is useless to me because it only has one input and a fixed cable length. With a normal panel, I can plug in what I want, and as far from the device as need be. Can't do it with an ACD.

I don't need a Mac Pro, an iMac is worthless to me. I don't like notebooks for the same reasons as the iMac. The Mini is perfect for me.

I'm not jumping on the new Mini just because the chip isn't an upgrade from the 2009 Mini. In 2011, I'll buy in. And plug it in to the same LCDs that I'm using now.

Spacekatgal
Jun 19, 2010, 04:16 PM
Or, we might know better than to buy all all-in-one since the LCD will last three generations of computer. So when your iMac dies or is obsolete, and your display becomes useless, I'm sitting here with the same three LCDs, and I swap out the Mini.

But you're right, we're just too cheap for an iMac which is *way* better and can totally be moved over to the home theater, or the kitchen, or my car.

My server is a home built Linux box. I don't have to look at it, but it needs to host up my Time Machines, files, iTunes, etc.

The ACD is useless to me because it only has one input and a fixed cable length. With a normal panel, I can plug in what I want, and as far from the device as need be. Can't do it with an ACD.

I don't need a Mac Pro, an iMac is worthless to me. I don't like notebooks for the same reasons as the iMac. The Mini is perfect for me.

I'm not jumping on the new Mini just because the chip isn't an upgrade from the 2009 Mini. In 2011, I'll buy in. And plug it in to the same LCDs that I'm using now.

Look, you like what you like, and you certianly don't have to justify it to me or anyone. Awesome for you, and I agree with your logic of skipping this generation.

I do have to doubt your assertion that an imac LCD only lasts for three years. I think it's patently false, actually. There are plenty of old imacs still up and rocking. My gods, on "The City" Whitney is still using acrylic imacs, and they work fine.

Sun Baked
Jun 19, 2010, 04:19 PM
Watch out, holding your breath will make you http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9395&stc=1

Decrepit
Jun 19, 2010, 06:13 PM
I do have to doubt your assertion that an imac LCD only lasts for three years. I think it's patently false, actually. There are plenty of old imacs still up and rocking. My gods, on "The City" Whitney is still using acrylic imacs, and they work fine.

I didn't mean just the LCD. What happens if the systemboard goes in the iMac? The perfectly good LCD is useless now. So repair an old box, or throw away a perfectly good LCD. Can you plug older (or current) generation iMacs into other devices to use as a display if the internals have failed?

Let's say the iMac lasts 10 years. How many of those G4s are still usable now as Flash and other things beat that CPU to death? No more PPC code's being written. So now the perfectly good display collects dust because the internals have aged.

I don't know what "The City" is, but are you really using a TV show or something to demonstrate the longevity of a computer?

Spacekatgal
Jun 19, 2010, 06:18 PM
Can you plug older (or current) generation iMacs into other devices to use as a display if the internals have failed?

You can, actually. It's called target display mode.

Bri

Scottsdale
Jun 19, 2010, 09:25 PM
You can, actually. It's called target display mode.

Bri

Not once the logic board goes!

ouimetnick
Jun 20, 2010, 02:58 PM
You can, actually. It's called target display mode.

Bri

I'm pretty sure you mean target disk mode. That makes the computer that you put in target disk mode a external HD, so you can recover files, but like scottsdale said, if the logic board is dead, your screwed.

Is there a such thing as target display mode?

EDIT: A google serch found out that a target display mode exists, but its only for the 27" iMac.

Spacekatgal
Jun 20, 2010, 03:04 PM
I'm pretty sure you mean target disk mode. That makes the computer that you put in target disk mode a external HD, so you can recover files, but like scottsdale said, if the logic board is dead, your screwed.

Is there a such thing as target display mode?

Yes, there is.

You can read about it here. (http://tinyurl.com/38g8mha)

Honestly, if you're that worried about salvaging individual components, the iMac is not for you. It's too bad you'll be stuck with a C2D and a sub-par GPU out of a worry of what might happen several years from now.

Bri

incoherent1
Jun 20, 2010, 04:35 PM
Not once the logic board goes!

I had a MBP with a logic board on the fritz and still got my data off through target disk mode before the board went completely. Of course, mileage will vary, but all hope is not lost if your logic board is seemingly toast.

Scottsdale
Jun 20, 2010, 11:33 PM
I had a MBP with a logic board on the fritz and still got my data off through target disk mode before the board went completely. Of course, mileage will vary, but all hope is not lost if your logic board is seemingly toast.

Well, you're a little incoherent1 aren't you? Actually, I was talking about target display... someone else brought up target disk as a different topic by confusion.

I did some research on this, and at the Apple forums I read that if the logic board on the iMac is out it will NOT work as a display for any Mac with an MDP. The iMac needs its logic board working to display another Mac's (like an MBA) MDP out to iMac's display only using the MDP cable from MBA with MDP to the iMac.

Huubster
Jul 5, 2010, 08:17 AM
Newsflash. I executed the option I mentioned when I started this thread.

haoqfu
Jul 6, 2010, 03:07 AM
I really wish the 27" and 32.5/33" LED-backlit Apple Cinema Displays were updated. Why does Apple refuse to update so many of its products? There are still plenty of reasons for a Mac media event.

I am really done thinking the MBA will be updated soon. I suspect October or January now seem the most realistic.

One problem with the Mac mini today is the damned HDMI. I know some like it, but I would have much preferred two Mini Display Port outs. That way we could connect two new LED ACDs. With the HDMI, it limits that port basically to a flat panel TV. I think the users could buy a $29 MDP to HDMI with sound just fine. Or include the thing if they thought it was necessary.

I am going to buy the Mac mini Server. I plan to use it as a media server and for some web stuff. It should be pretty fun to mess around with. I really like having the server software even if I don't fully utilize it. I also like the idea of connecting a BluRay drive to it and running Windows on it.

At least it will be something to mess with while we're all waiting for a damned MBA update.


I'd prefer 2 mdp as well, but still, you can get a belkin av360 (which costs $149) to connect to the 24 led from the hdmi output.