Apple Offers iPad Refunds to Australian Customers Misled about 4G

Can I please get a refund from the hard drive manufacturers who listened to their marketing departments instead of their engineering departments and sold me a 160GB hard drive that was metric instead of binary in sizing?

Note to the world: Australians aren't stupid, but does have a government that is concerned about consumer protection and enforces truth in advertising and clearly labeling products. That does not make it a nanny state, and companies are free to make a dollar or two, but not at the expense of ripping off the consumer. This consumer protection has been the cornerstone of one of the worlds most stable economies.

748s said:

No greed, no Au carrier can use it.
In Australia 700MHz is used for analog TV.
700/2100MHz will be available after 2016 when analog TV is switched off.

USA & Canada are in the minority using 700/2100MHz.
Most of Europe and Asia are going with 900/1800MHz.

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Quote of the Day! Analog was supposed to be turned off so much longer ago, right? I vaguely recollect something about that, meh..2016 is the date.

That said, I was really peeved on the day of announcement and the bands listed, seeing that Telstra wouldn't support it. Didn't stop me from hitting pre-order not too long after Nor enjoying 20/3-4mbps "3G" data speeds

Good. I feel misled myself but then I look at the logo, myself, and gush

wbeasley said:

Surely most people with some tech knowledge would know Apple's 4G didn't work outside the US.

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Since when is the standard for whether an ad might cause confusion based on whether geeks know? And if it was widely understood that the iPad 4G only works on American and Canadian 4G networks, then why the heck should it be advertised as 4G in Australia? Because it can run on 4G LTE networks in two countries that are literally on the other side of the planet, it's ok to advertise it as 4G in Australia even though it doesn't run on Australia's 4G network? Huh? Maybe AT&T can start running iPad ads in America touting its hotspot capability because Verizon and carriers in China have enabled that feature, with the fine print that "We are working with Apple to enable this feature in the future, but we currently do not offer it" to clear up any consumer confusion.

Apple says that "iPad WiFi + 4G" isn't misleading because even though the iPad doesn't work on the 4G LTE network in Australia, it works on HSPA+ networks there that the ITU has ruled can be called 4G. Except that in Australia, as in many other countries outside the U.S., 4G = LTE. None of the Australian wireless carriers advertise or call their HSPA+ networks as 4G, as some US carriers do. Telstra, the Australian carrier that does have a 4G LTE network, advertises its HSPA+ network as the "Next G Network." None of the other carriers have tried to advertise its HSPA+ capable network as 4G. That clear and unmuddled understanding of 4G is the context within which Apple is advertising its iPad as "WiFi + 4G." Regardless of what the understanding of "4G" are in the US, it's not the same in Australia. It's fair and reasonable to ask Apple and any other company selling its wares in Australia to conform its marketing and ads to the practices and usages of the country. Regardless of how many people get refunds, the practice of calling the iPad in Australia 4G is confusing because it goes against the widespread and common understanding of the term there.

I don't think Apple is trying to mislead anyone deliberately - I think they're trying to make it clear that the iPad doesn't run on Australia's 4G LTE network. But even though their motive may be genuine and in good faith, the fact is they are trying to hoist onto the Australia market a usage of the term that isn't widespread in that country. I think the regulators there are completely in the right to require companies to localize their ads to the terminology as it's used in their country. I don't see why that's controversial and it's something that Apple already does with their other products. Case in point, go look at the iPhone 4s pages on Apple's Italian site. There's not a mention of Siri at all there because Siri doesn't work with the Italian language yet. Apple doesn't rely on fine print or an asterisk that says "Siri doesn't work with Italian yet" nor do they advertise Siri in Italy with the justification that "well, geeks would know that Siri only works with English, French, German and Japanese so it's fine to advertise Siri in Italy."

This should never have been an issue, in the end most people should be thankful we dont have 4g here especially on the ipad. sure its heaps faster which is great, but people will burn through thier data in no time and then get slugged with massive excess usage charges. then they'll bitch about how the ipad uses too much data...

Good move by Apple to do this.

A perfectly reasonable way to get the authorities there off their backs. If this wasn't enough of a non-issue before, it certainly is now.

Jayse said:

Is it just me or do other Aussies find it stupid that Telstra - Australia's largest telecommunications company - is investing and implementing a different LTE frequency to what the rest of the world uses?

This is pure greed from Telstra, potentially forcing Aussie customers to adopt their own branded products to benefit from faster data speeds!

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The 700mhz spectrum is still in use for analog tv. Not everywhere in australia is shut off.

This will be available in 2014 or 2015 i believe.

Also, if you paid attention to the new iPad page on apple.com.au, the icon in the top left next to the "bars" was always 3G - it made me laugh because the site was beautifully designed, an absolute marvel in usability and design for a webpage...and then that little "mistake" grabbed me.

Turns out, it was no mistake. There would just be no LTE in Australia on this device. Boo-hoo. It's only available in the CBD for at least another iPad launch away.

Strange

Why are most people upset by this fact? Consumer protection is a good thing right? Why give room to a company to be a little misleading? Isn't this about boundaries? In the Netherlands they advertise it has 4g and it can connect to fast networks around the world. I find this misleading as well, although there is no lie in the used sentence. Fact is, this 4g issue is not about availability of a 4g network, but about different standards. I'm not sure, but is it possible to roam a 4g network, or should I get a local sim in the States?

Anyway, nobody is going to return their new iPad, but apple should refrain this kind of advertising (outside US + Canada). Or should apple have some exclusive right to other companies? I find it arrogant they offer this solution of refund. They could easily adjust their advertising. Maybe they did, but I see no such indication in this report. They just clarify it isn't available in Australia. They should advertise as 3g.

TheBronx said:

yes they did, but if you dont hold a sign outside the apple store in AU making everything clear as you walk in, you get in "trouble" and 4g gate happens hehe

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If you include the statement that it is 4G in a prominent place in the marketing material in a country with a well marketed 4G network, then it is reasonable for the average consumer to think that they mean the same thing.

Why would Apple include it in the marketing at all outside of the Us and Canada unless their intention is to deceive? It can't be for the tiny niche market who travel to the US and are wealthy enough to pay data roaming charges.

wbeasley said:

The ACCC are the biggest bunch of toothless tigers around.

If they spent the efforts helping all Australians by investigating the rip off fuel prices they would be doing more for all of us. Instead they just claim they can't control things like that.

Surely most people with some tech knowledge would know Apple's 4G didn't work outside the US.

And those that didn't probably wouldn't know what they got wasn't work faster.

There will be very few returns. This is just a beat up. Apple will be happy for the free advertising for the 2 people in Australia who didn't know they sold tablets. (Hmmm, maybe Samsung will release a 4G tablet next in order to gain some media mentions...)

Actually, I'm surprised Samsung can show one of their ads on tv that says they have the highest res screen now that Apple's is higher. Perhaps they mean they have the highest res screens - that they supply to someone else

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Toothless? Did you expect them to bite Apple executives or something. I think the way they put Apple in their place was rather impressive.

Apple caves to the land of Steve Irwin stupidity.

As an Aussie a little piece of me died inside about this 4G nonsense, BTW there's a good article on the SMH regarding this if not previously quoted.

Zimmer62943 said:

This should never have been an issue, in the end most people should be thankful we dont have 4g here especially on the ipad. sure its heaps faster which is great, but people will burn through thier data in no time and then get slugged with massive excess usage charges. then they'll bitch about how the ipad uses too much data...

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Wow. Really? 4G is bad because it is too fast? I occasionally bump up against my 40GB limit on my home broadband. Back to dial up for me: that'll solve the problem.

Apple are amazing and they're clearly not idiots. The potential to mislead was as evident to them as it is to others and they chose to proceed. That must be seen as not good and it is incumbent upon us to push back on them and let them know. We're not the blind faithless are we?

There are 48 different frequencies around the world for LTE. This means that it is very unlikely that there will ever be a device that can cover all of those frequencies and truly be a world phone or device.

The iPad will not work on the frequencies that will be used in the UK either. Everything Everwhere are likely to launch a network later this year, and the other networks in late 2013 or 2014. So, the new iPad is still 3G for just about everyone other than those in the US.

Data roaming is likely to be a real pain as 4G rolls out. Networks will not invest any more in 3G networks, so you will travel with a 4G device, not get data on 4G as you roam, and the 3G networks are likely to get worse, not better. So, backup on GPRS and EDGE is likely to be what you wil use.

3G is much more global with fewer frequencies in use.

ezekielrage_99 said:

Apple caves to the land of Steve Irwin stupidity.

As an Aussie a little piece of my died inside about this 4G nonsense, BTW there's a good article on the SMH regarding this if not previously quoted.

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Why exactly should Australians be ashamed in this case? Because their government agencies are doing their job? If anything it's us Americans who should be envious. Here companies get away with murder every time. They even sell iPhone 4S here as a 4G device. And half iPhone 4 owners here believed that they had 4G device (iPhone 4 must be 4G, get it?).

ezekielrage_99 said:

Apple caves to the land of Steve Irwin stupidity.

As an Aussie a little piece of my died inside about this 4G nonsense, BTW there's a good article on the SMH regarding this if not previously quoted.

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That's a lawyer's defence. There are no 4G networks in the UK and yet the term is prominent in the marketing. What defence is there for that? I know other manufacturers do the same, but that still doesn't make it right, does it.

I find the well informed so intolerant of the superficially informed. All of us are ill informed in some area of our lives and have purchased something on a false assumption because of the way information was presented. It depends on whether the market is one we are interested in or not. Have some sympathy for the millions for whom this is a new area for.

And how many will really return it?

lilo777 said:

Why exactly should Australians be ashamed in this case? Because their government agencies are doing their job? If anything it's us Americans who should be envious. Here companies get away with murder every time. They even sell iPhone 4S here as a 4G device. And half iPhone 4 owners here believed that they had 4G device (iPhone 4 must be 4G, get it?).

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It's really a storm in a tea cup, Telstra has 4G and they also have NextG. With the story of the 4S I've too also heard many a person think iPhone 4 = 4G here in Sydney.

The point where I'm coming from is that I don't think it's Apple's fault with selling a 4G device when the norm in Australia (talking Virgin, Optus, Vodafone) are on 3G because you buy the prepaid data or plan through the provider NOT a "4G plan" directly through Apple.

Is it misleading? Well no once you consider which network you want to use.

And I really think people need to consider how many will actually refund due to not having 4G? I think I can count that number of people with one hand.

Can't believe all the negative responses surrounding this, the nerve of some people - honestly. This is a sign of good faith by apple offering the refund policy. It true, I think hardly anybody will want a refund, but I do think that apple should have taken more care in the advertising of the 4G compatibility - they advertised on a general, world wide scale, which should have instead Ben region based. Isn't that what .com.au, .co.uk (or apple.com/au, /us, etc in this case) are for?!?!

Either way, the anger should be directed at Australia's lack of 4G options, which I guess is down to a number of factors, including legality reasons (certain frequencies are locked until 2015). Apple can't support all 48 4G frequencies!

There is definitely the possibility for an information gap between someone that wanted to purchase the new iPad and not having read that it's incompatible with Telstra's 4G network, presently the only LTE option in Australia.

If I wasn't so hardcore about all of this, I quite possibly could have missed it, and while it wasn't a make/break for me, for others it is.

Let's be glad that the option is there...how much more is there to speculate about this?? Or are we all just maxxing out our post-count?

DoFoT9 said:

Either way, the anger should be directed at Australia's lack of 4G options, which I guess is down to a number of factors, including legality reasons (certain frequencies are locked until 2015). Apple can't support all 48 4G frequencies!

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And that was my point, the carriers not supporting 4G rather than Apple selling a 4G device, I see this as an issue for the Aussie telcos not Apple.

But I think it's good Apple has at least offered a refund for anyone really feeling ripped off for being sold on 4G.

ezekielrage_99 said:

And that was my point, the carriers not supporting 4G rather than Apple selling a 4G device, I see this as an issue for the Aussie telcos not Apple.

But I think it's good Apple has at least offered a refund for anyone really feeling ripped off for being sold on 4G.

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You're right, but apple has a responsibility to also observe the environment their product is going into. Australia BARELY has a 4G network, and apple introduces this product "oh here use 4G it's x times faster and does this and this", but that is mainly for USA customers. Apple should have properly advertised. "the new iPad, now ready for Australia's new upcoming 4G network", or whatever. At least the consumer doesn't completely get persuaded into thinking it will "just work" for them.

It would be a sign of good faith, is apple in the wrong? No.. Could they have prevented this? Yes..

Wirelessly posted

Advertised as 4G in the UK too, yet does not work on any 4G networks here?

748s said:

No greed, no Au carrier can use it.
In Australia 700MHz is used for analog TV.
700/2100MHz will be available after 2016 when analog TV is switched off.

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2016? I thought it was going to be completely phased out by 2013?

'The switchover will begin in 2010 and continue until the end of 2013. It will be rolled out progressively around the country, region by region.' (Source: www.digitalready.gov.au)