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Old Apr 24, 2012, 08:53 PM   #76
hajime
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Originally Posted by DodgeV83 View Post
The lack of Android updates is definitely true...
For Mac OS and Windows, Apple and Microsoft provide security updates often. I guess each version of the OS (e.g. Windows XP, Vista) lasts at least 10 years or so before the company stops providing support. We don't know about Android and iOS as they are relatively young. However, if the newer version of Android support phones that are about 3 years old only, I worry that my upcoming Android phone may become obsolete 3-4 years from now. If Android phones cannot get the latest update, does that mean they are less secure than the iPhone? I read somewhere that Android phones' updates are depending on the phone companies and carriers, if they don't provide update, can't the users do it themselves? If not, what happen if new malware and Trojan come out? With the iPhone, I guess we can depend on Apple to come up with a fix in a reasonable short period of time. Also, is there a malware that wipe out important data such as phonebook? As the phone holds important personal information, I want to buy a phone that is secure, stable and reliable. It seems that iPhone can do that. It just has a very boring UI and outdated hardware. How about Android phones such as the Galaxy Note?

Last edited by hajime; Apr 24, 2012 at 08:59 PM.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 11:00 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by hajime View Post
For Mac OS and Windows, Apple and Microsoft provide security updates often. I guess each version of the OS (e.g. Windows XP, Vista) lasts at least 10 years or so before the company stops providing support. We don't know about Android and iOS as they are relatively young. However, if the newer version of Android support phones that are about 3 years old only, I worry that my upcoming Android phone may become obsolete 3-4 years from now. If Android phones cannot get the latest update, does that mean they are less secure than the iPhone? I read somewhere that Android phones' updates are depending on the phone companies and carriers, if they don't provide update, can't the users do it themselves? If not, what happen if new malware and Trojan come out? With the iPhone, I guess we can depend on Apple to come up with a fix in a reasonable short period of time. Also, is there a malware that wipe out important data such as phonebook? As the phone holds important personal information, I want to buy a phone that is secure, stable and reliable. It seems that iPhone can do that. It just has a very boring UI and outdated hardware. How about Android phones such as the Galaxy Note?
There are Android phones coming out right now that don't have the latest version of Android, and possibly never will. The latest Android version came out almost half a year ago, and only 3% of all Android devices are on it. I'd guess that a large portion of those 3% are people that upgraded themselves, using a custom ROM they found on the Internet.

Personally, I think installing a whole operating system through an unofficial website you found online (often from some random guy posting it in a forum), is the epitome of poor security. If someone posted on a website, "Hey! I just made a really cool version of Windows, it's much cooler than Microsoft's version, click here to install!"...would you do it?

Android is inherently less secure, latest version or not, since it allows for installing of software outside of the official Google Play store. Even if you decide to never install apps outside of the store, there have been many cases of people contracting malware even from official Google Play apps, since they don't go through an approval process like Apple's store. I wouldn't worry about apps deleting your contacts, I'd worry about apps sending spam to all of your contacts through SMS, then sending SMS messages to a premium service, costing you $10 a message to rack up your phone bill.

I've read that Android stores your email passwords in clear text, making it much easier for a piece of malware to extract your password. Entire bank accounts have been cleared out from people losing their email password to a hacker.

Regarding the "outdated hardware", the iPhone 4S has the fastest CPU/GPU on the market. There is no Android phone yet released that beats the iPhone 4S in CPU/GPU benchmarks. Compared specifically to the Note, the iPhone 4S is almost 1.7x faster in the standardized 3D performance benchmark.

This isn't hard to believe, considering the iPhone 4S is 40% more expensive per unit than any other phone, according to Sprint (referring to how much it costs them to buy the phone from Apple).

Thats like calling a top of the line 13" laptop with the fastest mobile processor on the market "outdated hardware" compared to a budget brand 17" laptop, because the screen is bigger
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 06:45 AM   #78
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The Android may have more security issues (such as malware) than iOS. How about Windows Phones 7.5? I suppose Microsoft may do a better job in security by upgrading Windows Phones with the latest patches. Perhaps Windows Phones can also be upgraded to later versions of the OS? I need to buy a phone within one month. Probably iPhone 5 will not be available within the next four weeks. I am now considering the iPhone 4S, HTC One X, HTC One XL, HTC Titan II, Samsung Galaxy Note. Any advice?
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 07:04 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by DodgeV83 View Post
Personally, I think installing a whole operating system through an unofficial website you found online (often from some random guy posting it in a forum), is the epitome of poor security. If someone posted on a website, "Hey! I just made a really cool version of Windows, it's much cooler than Microsoft's version, click here to install!"...would you do it?
I guess you're talking about XDA here. First, I've been using roms from XDA for three years and I've yet to hear of any rom being a security issue with rogue code or the like. In fact, many of the custom roms are probably more secure than stock roms, as devs will respond and fix issues in a matter of days. And there are enough devs floating about on there that anybody posting suspicious code would soon be caught out.

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Originally Posted by DodgeV83 View Post
Even if you decide to never install apps outside of the store, there have been many cases of people contracting malware even from official Google Play apps, since they don't go through an approval process like Apple's store. I wouldn't worry about apps deleting your contacts, I'd worry about apps sending spam to all of your contacts through SMS, then sending SMS messages to a premium service, costing you $10 a message to rack up your phone bill.
Got a source for that? Not saying you're wrong, but spouting stuff like this without backing it up is half the problem in the iOS/Android debate. And let's not pretend Apple's approval process is perfect.

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I've read that Android stores your email passwords in clear text, making it much easier for a piece of malware to extract your password.
This is more to do with app developers than Android, and is also an issue on iOS (see here and here).

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Entire bank accounts have been cleared out from people losing their email password to a hacker.
Again, got a source for that?
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 08:24 AM   #80
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Hi,

I have been using iPhones like most since they hit the market. I'm a complete apple fanboy... Just love there products... For innovation nobody meets or beats them...

But after using the galaxy note (borrowed off a friend for a couple of days) I have to say after using the note for a day you soon get use to the screen size.

Gaming for instance... And general use.. Ie tweeting, Facebook. A whole lot better on a bigger screen.

Gaming on the note wins hands down and I think this is the only part where it's quite annoying to use an ip4 your hands basically cover the screen and make most games not that enjoyable... Take modern combat 3.... Very nice on the note rubbish on the ip4..

For normal users 5" screen is to big, but apple really need to release an iPhone with at least a 4" screen. Samsung really are bringing out some great products and the screen on the note is awesome...

I'm not really interested in the pen writing but for some would come in very handy...

I now have my ip4 back and god it's tiny and awkward and I have small hands... I'm not planning on leaving ios or iPhone they are now part of my everyday life, but apple really need to add a slightly larger screen..

Before the note I really didnt like android and because of the note I now think I can see what people like about it... Feature rich, loads of built in features, lots of roms to try if your device is rooted...

Apple really need to start lifting the bar again.... How long have we had a notification screen on the iPhone... Apple simply not good enough...

By the way just ordered my iPhone 4s...

Thanks

Ian
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 01:27 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Ian.C View Post
Hi,

I have been using iPhones like most since they hit the market. I'm a complete apple fanboy... Just love there products... For innovation nobody meets or beats them...

But after using the galaxy note (borrowed off a friend for a couple of days) I have to say after using the note for a day you soon get use to the screen size.

Gaming for instance... And general use.. Ie tweeting, Facebook. A whole lot better on a bigger screen.

Gaming on the note wins hands down and I think this is the only part where it's quite annoying to use an ip4 your hands basically cover the screen and make most games not that enjoyable... Take modern combat 3.... Very nice on the note rubbish on the ip4..

For normal users 5" screen is to big, but apple really need to release an iPhone with at least a 4" screen. Samsung really are bringing out some great products and the screen on the note is awesome...

I'm not really interested in the pen writing but for some would come in very handy...

I now have my ip4 back and god it's tiny and awkward and I have small hands... I'm not planning on leaving ios or iPhone they are now part of my everyday life, but apple really need to add a slightly larger screen..

Before the note I really didnt like android and because of the note I now think I can see what people like about it... Feature rich, loads of built in features, lots of roms to try if your device is rooted...

Apple really need to start lifting the bar again.... How long have we had a notification screen on the iPhone... Apple simply not good enough...

By the way just ordered my iPhone 4s...

Thanks

Ian

I feel the same.

After using the iPod Touch for a few years, I am tired of the boring iOS even it may have a better security than other phone OS. If an iPhone with a larger screen and more interesting user interface appear in the market within a month, I buy it. This seems to be unlikely though.

I am holding on the Galaxy Note because it is not certain when it can upgrade to Ice Cream Sandwich. I heard that ICS has better user interface and security than the Android version currently installed on the Note.

If I can find evidence that Windows Phone 7.5 has better security, I will consider it too.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 02:44 PM   #82
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I guess you're talking about XDA here. First, I've been using roms from XDA for three years and I've yet to hear of any rom being a security issue with rogue code or the like. In fact, many of the custom roms are probably more secure than stock roms, as devs will respond and fix issues in a matter of days. And there are enough devs floating about on there that anybody posting suspicious code would soon be caught out.
Yes I am referring to sites like XDA. Assuming the custom ROMs themselves don't contain malicious code, I do agree that the ROMs are quite often more secure than the official ROM posted by the carrier. Unfortunately this is actually a huge negative to Android. Think about it, if you at unwilling to replace your entire operating system with an unofficial one posted by random people in a forum, you will be forced to live with an inherently insecure operating system, with known security holes that are unplugged.

As someone who deals with high-security government agencies on a daily basis, there are red flags all over that scenario. Imagine if HP refused to patch your Windows installation, and you were forced to either live with security holes, or apply an unofficial Windows patch from a website forum posted by random people. Actually, it's much worse than that. Since HP won't patch your Windows installation you have to replace your entire Windows install with an unofficial one posted by a random person on a website forum.

You shouldn't have to play Catch-22 with security.

I disagree with your contention that there are enough devs to assure there is no malicious code in any of the hundreds of ROMS currently posted on that site. When you consider that rootkits go undetected on Windows machines for months or even years, with paid professionals in charge of their security, I don't think you can make that conclusion.

While I agree there haven't been any publicized outbreaks yet, that does not mean there haven't been any infections, or that there won't be any moving forward.

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Got a source for that? Not saying you're wrong, but spouting stuff like this without backing it up is half the problem in the iOS/Android debate. And let's not pretend Apple's approval process is perfect.
Sure, here's the first one I found, I'm sure there are more:

Malware in Android Market highlights Google's vulnerability

Quote:
Worse, it exploited security flaws to root the phone, and installed a backdoor application that allows further software to be installed to the handsets.
This is serious. The link you gave on iOS was simply an app doing what the user gave it permission to do. There are many legitimate reasons for uploading contacts (WhatsApp), or photos (Facebook). There are no legitimate reasons for the behavior of the Android Malware I linked to above.

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This is more to do with app developers than Android, and is also an issue on iOS (see here and here).
I am referring to the default email app on the Android device, this is an Android issue, not a third party developer issue. I would guess that almost everyone on Android has given the default email app their username and password, at least to try it out.

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Again, got a source for that?
I was not referring to any specific Android attack, only that this is a danger when your email is compromised. I will give some examples of how this can happen:
  • Same password on your email account as your bank account
  • The hacker goes to the bank website, clicks "forgot password" and retrieves it from your email.
  • The above two examples can be used to find your Amazon account info, or your Paypal info...etc
  • http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/03/h...to-bank-fraud/
  • There may be enough personally identifiable information to open lines of credit in your name. All they need is a social security number and address. Have you ever emailed yourself a copy of your W2? If so a hacker can access it.

There are enough articles online highlighting the dangers of your email being hacked, I don't think I have to get into it here.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 03:00 PM   #83
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After using the iPod Touch for a few years, I am tired of the boring iOS even it may have a better security than other phone OS. If an iPhone with a larger screen and more interesting user interface appear in the market within a month, I buy it. This seems to be unlikely though.
After years of experimenting with different versions of Windows, OSX and Linux, I've come to the conclusion that the best OS is the one that gets out of my way. You know an OS is doing its job when it simply disappears, and you don't have to think about it.

I've tried all of the Linux distorts with wobbly windows, cube rotating animations, and eye candy pushed up to the max...and it always resulted in slowing down my computer.

I view iOS as a portal to my apps, and it performs that task perfectly. What is it you are looking for, either in ICS or Windows Phone, that you're missing in iOS?
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 08:57 PM   #84
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I view iOS as a portal to my apps, and it performs that task perfectly. What is it you are looking for, either in ICS or Windows Phone, that you're missing in iOS?
1. Fancy UI like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v-EomtcS8g

2. The ability to write notes directly on the screen. I guess currently,
only the Galaxy Note can do it.

The perfect combination would be:

ICS with the security of iOS on a 4.5-5.3" Samsung Galaxy Note. I do hope that the ICS really fixes the lag problem on Android phones.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 09:33 PM   #85
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1. Fancy UI like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v-EomtcS8g

2. The ability to write notes directly on the screen. I guess currently,
only the Galaxy Note can do it.

The perfect combination would be:

ICS with the security of iOS on a 4.5-5.3" Samsung Galaxy Note. I do hope that the ICS really fixes the lag problem on Android phones.
That's how I felt when I first tried a UI like that, but I quickly started seeing it's shortcomings. This might be one of those things you just have to try for a week or so and see if you still like it.

I still contend you won't use the *writing notes on the screen* functionality as much as you think you will. The granularity of a pen/pencil just isn't there. You have to write so big, that even a 5.3 inch screen isn't big enough to fit what you want.

Most of the photos I see online of writing on the note look like this:







This was the best one I saw, but even that looks pretty limited in terms of screen space:



Since handwriting is so high on your list, have you considered just getting an iPad?
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 10:30 AM   #86
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It's so funny to watch people get on their high horse and preach about stuff.

Driving and talking on the phone is only as a 2nd offense. You have to be breaking the law already to get cited.

Speeding isn't. Why don't we bitch at the op because he probably speeds too!!

I've sped, littered, made a illegal lane change, drove with a tail light out. Which phone do you guys think is right for me?!?
You do realise not everyone lives in the USA, talking on the phone without hands free in the UK gives penalty points and a fine immediately.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 10:39 AM   #87
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You do realise not everyone lives in the USA, talking on the phone without hands free in the UK gives penalty points and a fine immediately.
And in some places it's completely legal. This is why you shouldn't cite local laws when giving phone advice to an international audience
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 11:47 AM   #88
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You do realise not everyone lives in the USA, talking on the phone without hands free in the UK gives penalty points and a fine immediately.
Uhm.....cool?

You ignored the point of my post.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 12:01 PM   #89
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That's how I felt when I first tried a UI like that, but I quickly started seeing it's shortcomings. This might be one of those things you just have to try for a week or so and see if you still like it.

I still contend you won't use the *writing notes on the screen* functionality as much as you think you will. The granularity of a pen/pencil just isn't there. You have to write so big, that even a 5.3 inch screen isn't big enough to fit what you want.

...

Since handwriting is so high on your list, have you considered just getting an iPad?
Thanks for warning. I will test it. When I went to Samsung's showroom, the stylus was missing! I guess they did not leave it there on purpose. They should have put it there as the Note is in the showroom for potential customers to try out the products. One of the main features of the Galaxy Note is the stylus. They should let people to try it out.

I guess if there is an electronic notepad that has an virtually infinite size (like Illustrator and Photoshop), that may be desirable. Any Galaxy Note user knows about the existence of such APP?
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 12:13 PM   #90
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I've done the phone and stylus thing with my old Palm. I will never go back to it!
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 12:23 PM   #91
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It is outdated. Iowa isn't on there, which is where I currently reside (unfortunately). Sept 1 can't come close enough (more off topic).
New York (all areas of City and Upstate and outlying boroughs) are looking to ban all cell phone use in your car period. No hands free use, no use at all while driving. I am not sure if they mean for passengers too, it was not clearly stated, but I know all of New York may soon have a device ban all over, but it will be interesting to see only because I see so many people using them and holding the phone, it will be a hard thing to enforce and catch in the act so to speak.

I am in NJ and they are talking about a device ban as well
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 12:25 PM   #92
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I've done the phone and stylus thing with my old Palm. I will never go back to it!
Not even close to the same thing.

This device has a capacitive finger touch screen PLUS a Wacom active pen.

Best of both worlds.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 12:52 PM   #93
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I've done the phone and stylus thing with my old Palm. I will never go back to it!
I had the Palm. I recall that the screen resolution was quite low.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 01:01 PM   #94
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Not even close to the same thing.

This device has a capacitive finger touch screen PLUS a Wacom active pen.

Best of both worlds.
You'd think people would have finally got the message by now that the S-pen isn't simply a "stylus."
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 06:47 PM   #95
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Not even close to the same thing.

This device has a capacitive finger touch screen PLUS a Wacom active pen.

Best of both worlds.
I appreciate the info, but my frustration came from constantly having to pick up the stylus to use on the screen and then putting it away again to type on the keyboard and then picking it up again and then putting it away again and then...

I understand the Note is different, but I can see the same thing happening.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 07:05 PM   #96
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I appreciate the info, but my frustration came from constantly having to pick up the stylus to use on the screen and then putting it away again to type on the keyboard and then picking it up again and then putting it away again and then...

I understand the Note is different, but I can see the same thing happening.
How? If you want to write by hand, you write by hand. If you don't, you don't. There is never going to be a situation on the note where you absolutely NEED to use the pen...
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 07:20 PM   #97
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I appreciate the info, but my frustration came from constantly having to pick up the stylus to use on the screen and then putting it away again to type on the keyboard and then picking it up again and then putting it away again and then...

I understand the Note is different, but I can see the same thing happening.
You'd rather be forced not to use the s pen by not being offered the technology instead of just not using the s pen?
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 07:31 PM   #98
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I appreciate the info, but my frustration came from constantly having to pick up the stylus to use on the screen and then putting it away again to type on the keyboard and then picking it up again and then putting it away again and then...

I understand the Note is different, but I can see the same thing happening.
Your example is a bit different TallGuy1970, because the stylus was required on the palm pilot in order to navigate the interface. That isn't the case here.

The OP might run into this issue, however, if he constantly wants to use the stylus to write things down, but I wouldn't say it's a limitation of the Note.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 08:04 PM   #99
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Hello. I carry the MBP 17" all the time. Usually I have 1 or 2 pieces of papers in my computer bag. I don't use the MBP to write notes as it is a bit of a hassle to take it out, open it and then write notes. The problem is that sometimes I lose the papers. I am a bit lazy to go home and scan the papers into my computer, etc.

Anyway, let's take the S-pen out of the equation at the moment. Are there any other things (besides the ones listed below) that the iPhone-iOS is better than the GalaxyNote-Android? By Android, I mean ICS which hopefully would be available for the Note soon. I don't like the Android 2 currently on the Note because of the lag problem.

Besides the possibility to write notes, things that I like about the Note-Android:

- larger screen than the iPhone 4S

- fancy UI

- battery exchangeable so I don't have to worry about losing power in the middle the day. Have not owned an iPhone. Not sure if I will ever run out of power.

- I read that the speaker/reception is better than those of the iPhone 4S. Experience from iPhone 4S users please.

- Perhaps less fragile than the 4S? I heard that the front and back glasses of the 4S can break easily especially after drop. Besides, I am not a fan of the current generation of aluminum design. Some of us have developed OCD. Most users have to buy protective parts for their MBP, iPhone, etc.

- It is Flash compatible. There have been cases that I tried to access information from my iPodTouch. However, I could not access the info because the websites contained Flash.


Things that I like about the iPhone4S-iOS:

- better security. If there is a malware, Apple will try to fix the security hole. iOS users probably get the support sooner than Android users. Is this true?

- perhaps better customer service from Apple. If somethings go really wrong, Apple could give you a new phone. I heard that Samsung does not do this sort of thing.

- it will probably be compatible with the next few major iOS updates. I read that Android phone users often complain about the lack of updates. For example, only 3% of the Android phone users are using ICS. I guess the low percentage may be due to the fact that most Android phone users are not technical. They just use whatever installed on their phones. They don't care nor capable of updating their phones. I have a relative like that.

Last edited by hajime; Apr 30, 2012 at 10:12 PM. Reason: Added comment on the ability for Note-Android to run Flash
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 09:14 PM   #100
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Hello. I carry the MBP 17" all the time. Usually I have 1 or 2 pieces of papers in my computer bag. I don't use the MBP to write notes as it is a bit of a hassle to take it out, open it and then write notes. The problem is that sometimes I lose the papers. I am a bit lazy to go home and scan the papers into my computer, etc.

Anyway, let's take the S-pen out of the equation at the moment. Are there any other things (besides the ones listed below) that the iPhone-iOS is better than the GalaxyNote-Android? By Android, I mean ICS which hopefully would be available for the Note soon. I don't like the Android 2 currently on the Note because of the lag problem.

Besides the possibility to write notes, things that I like about the Note-Android:

- larger screen than the iPhone 4S

- fancy UI

- battery exchangeable so I don't have to worry about losing power in the middle the day. Have not owned an iPhone. Not sure if I will ever run out of power.

- I read that the speaker/reception is better than those of the iPhone 4S. Experience from iPhone 4S users please.

- Perhaps less fragile than the 4S? I heard that the front and back glasses of the 4S can break easily especially after drop. Besides, I am not a fan of the current generation of aluminum design. Some of us have developed OCD. Most users have to buy protective parts for their MBP, iPhone, etc.


Things that I like about the iPhone4S-iOS:

- better security. If there is a malware, Apple will try to fix the security hole. iOS users probably get the support sooner than Android users. Is this true?

- perhaps better customer service from Apple. If somethings go really wrong, Apple could give you a new phone. I heard that Samsung does not do this sort of thing.

- it will probably be compatible with the next few major iOS updates. I read that Android phone users often complain about the lack of updates. For example, only 3% of the Android phone users are using ICS. I guess the low percentage may be due to the fact that most Android phone users are not technical. They just use whatever installed on their phones. They don't care nor capable of updating their phones. I have a relative like that.
Your missing what I believe to be the most important factor of them all, the software! Your comparison seems to be focused on hardware, but the apps are what make the iPhone shine. It's gotten to the point (for me) that I couldn't switch to Android if I wanted to, it is no longer a preference issue, it's a quality of life issue. I plan on making a post on this later today (hopefully!), but that's what I would be looking at.

That being said, the exchangeable battery thing is another one where I think the iPhone has an advantage, because of the wealth of accessories available for it. I have the Mophie Juice Pack Air:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/H6...-for-iphone-4s

You can find it cheaper elsewhere, but I like the Apple Store version. It acts both as a case, and a battery extender, it almost doubles the battery life. When you charge the phone at night, you charge it inside the case, and they both charge at the same time. I personally prefer the phone without a case, so when I leave for work, I take the phone out of the case and slip it into my suit pocket. I use the phone normally all day, and if I need a charge, I put the case on for a bit to top the battery off.

Considering your previous posts, you may prefer to keep the case on (my girlfriend uses the same case with her iPhone and always leaves it on), but it's your decision. The case is easy to snap on and off.

If you get a normal phone with a second battery, that's something else to worry about, something else to worry about keeping charged and something else you will 100% of the time need to carry with you in your pocket in order to take advantage of.
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