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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:53 PM   #26
gpat
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Originally Posted by DWilliamson5002 View Post
Apple should just close up shop and leave Italy. Just say "You know what you win Italy, we just won't sell products in your country."
Uhm, I think they are supposed to maximize profits, not act childish.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:53 PM   #27
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Simple. Charge a 10% premium in Italy under the same scheme as currency adjustments, offer the 2 year warranty requested, and make very clear to the Italian public when and how to give feedback to the government about the unreasonable portions of law or regulation. Let the locals enjoy all costs and benefits.

Let them know pricing is connected to local rules including standards, fines and tarrifs. Give the example of Brazil tarrifs as an extreme example.

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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:53 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by wordoflife View Post
It's good that they (the Italian regulators) are bringing this up because this is something many EU customers aren't aware of and end up unnecessarily buying Apple Care.

Because they aren't well informed enough.
After so much time with the 2 years warranty police in place, if there is someone in Europe who doesn't know that, maybe he/she shouldn't be eligible to buy an Apple product (or any other product)!

This is what happens when a beautiful brand with divine products becomes mass marketed...
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:53 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by ualymerej View Post
Apple is getting in trouble because customers can't read?
No, because they're trying to make you believe that you only have a one year warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaibelf View Post
NONSENSE. It's not APPLE'S job to inform the Italian public about standard Italian law. It's their government's job. What are they doing, aside from the whole underage scandal thing?
True. But the point is that Apple is lying about the warranty laws in EU.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:53 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderspark View Post
Seems easy enough for Apple to just play along. Offer a two year warranty, and clearly state it where necessary.
Apple has no obligation at all to offer any manufacturer's warranty on any products. However, stores, including Apple stores, have are responsible for the products they sell (claiming this means "two years warranty" is oversimplifying it). On all products they sell.

So an Apple Store selling a Canon printer has to fix problems with the Canon printer, probably for two years. And if PCWorld sells an iMac, PCWorld has to fix problems with the iMac, probably for two years as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by smellalot View Post
No, because they're trying to make you believe that you only have a one year warranty.
Which is absolutely true. One year manufacturer's warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smellalot View Post
True. But the point is that Apple is lying about the warranty laws in EU.
Please demonstrate where they do that.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:54 PM   #31
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Apple clearly don't subscribe to the "When in Rome..." adage.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:54 PM   #32
gpat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
Simple. Charge a 10% premium in Italy under the same scheme as currency adjustments, offer the 2 year warranty requested, and make very clear to the Italian public when and how to give feedback to the government about the unreasonable portions of law or regulation. Let the locals enjoy all costs and benefits.

Let them know pricing is connected to local rules including standards, fines and tarrifs. Give the example of Brazil tarrifs as an extreme example.

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They already charged a 10% premium, even a little more. The baseline MBA increased from 949€ to 1069€ here with the last revision. Same with every other Macbook.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:54 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Kaibelf View Post
NONSENSE. It's not APPLE'S job to inform the Italian public about standard Italian law. It's their government's job. What are they doing, aside from the whole underage scandal thing?

While Apple is under no obligation to inform the customer of the two-year mandatory warranty, they may-not advertise a lesser warranty in order to compel consumers to purchase Applecare. They must also honor the two-year warranty when customers submit a claim.

What Apple did or did not do, and whether it was intentionally done to increase Applecare sales is now up to the Italian courts.

I have no idea why the Italian government would ban sales of a consumer device, seeing that the language on the website was already changed, and the fine already paid. Is there a real reason, or is the Italian government simply trying to siphon off some of Apple's cash?

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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:55 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ualymerej View Post
Apple is getting in trouble because customers can't read?
No, they're in trouble because they were still pushing customers toward AppleCare when it was largely worthless.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:55 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
It is an EU directive, not an Italian law, try again
Duh, it's part of the EU. And the EU is pretty backwards. No need to be a jerk
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:56 PM   #36
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Now they have the disclaimer up, can we get some detail on exactly HOW Apple is misleading customers into buying AppleCare?

That seems like an important factor here. If you're selling it as BETTER coverage (covers phone support, software, battery, etc.) than the limited 2-year warranty, then you're not doing anything wrong.

If you're selling it by saying the standard 2-year doesn't apply to your product, that's a different matter entirely.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:56 PM   #37
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no loss

No big loss Apple... hold your position and see who blinks first, bet it's the Itai Gov't
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:57 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by applesith View Post
WOW! Calm down dude. First look at the poverty conditions in Europe vs. US. And yes we are in the crapper because we have open boarders.
Yap, and European borders are closed, aren't they?
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:58 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by DWilliamson5002 View Post
Apple should just close up shop and leave Italy. Just say "You know what you win Italy, we just won't sell products in your country."
Exactly italian dont need it even, that ****** apple, microsoft is an option, and linux too!
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 12:59 PM   #40
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Apple, you need to follow the laws of the country you are trading in. If you can't, then stop trading in that location.

Consumer Laws are great, BTW. The u.s consumer laws are lacking.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:00 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ualymerej View Post
Apple is getting in trouble because customers can't read?
Lol at the fanboy statement if i have ever seen one...

I love Apple, but sadly they are not the only company that try and hide the fact that in the EU, a 2 year free warranty is required by Law.

We dont care so much because Applecare takes care of that year anyway and is such a great weapon to have...

But they should be honest about it.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:02 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by ualymerej View Post
Apple is getting in trouble because customers can't read?
I can read Latin, but I don't understand a word of it.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:02 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
It is an EU directive, perhaps Apple should call their bluff and just pull out of all the EU
Saying something twice does not make it more true. It is actually an italian interpretation of an EU directive. Apple is not in trouble in all EU countries, only ones that are looking to shake down Apple for money. EU countries are not required to enforce all of those directives in the same way.

I think you are also a bit confused about the directive. The directive refers to the "retailer". The retailer is required to supply a two year warranty, not the manufacturer. Apple can simply raise their prices in EU countries demanding two year warranties and withdrawing the offer for "applecare" or offer an additional 3rd year warranty under the "applecare" moniker.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:02 PM   #44
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I can't believe what I'm reading here...

First: This is European law NOT Italian.

Second: If you Americans are willing to pay so much money for gadgets that are only garrantied to run for...what?...90 days...go ahead...no wonder NOBODY except Americans purchase ****** American cars...

Third: The law actually states that in the first year of warranty the producer has to prove the user was handling it wrong, whilst the second year the user has to prove there was a material problem.

Fourth: I just purchased a new MacBook Air and decides against paying over 200€ for one additional year of warranty. What's the chance of a part failing in three year when it hasn't in the two years before? It's more like you have accidental damage or it get's stolen. I rather use the money to buy an insurance in that case.

Fifth: We have a lot of gadget that last decades...think Miele Washmachines...I actually expect them to hold out that long and Miele actually does give you their own 5 year warranty on it as many other manufactures do...Apple is cheeping out on everything to keep their high profit margin. They could easily give you a 5 year warranty as well, but why bother if you have sheeps like you fools you actually think THIS is the reason why Italian economy is bad.

Sixth: On that matter. It is actually a crisis of mostly banks here in Europe...and guess where it started: America...Sublime credits anyone? Just so that you guys can buy crappy houses and ****** car's that you really couldn't afford (including Apple products) the entire world economy has been screwed...So do us the favor and think before giving smart answers...

Seventh: Oh and Apple product are more expensive because of our VAT...we have 19% here in Germany...US has what?...0-10%?
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Last edited by Galatian; Jul 2, 2012 at 01:24 PM. Reason: Forgot something
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:05 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
Please demonstrate where they do that.
There you go.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:07 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by ualymerej View Post
Apple is getting in trouble because customers can't read?
If a country has two years of warranty as default, Apple can't offer only one-year warranty. When it establishes in a foreign country, the minimum requirement is following local regulations.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:09 PM   #47
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Please keep in mind, the law applies to the retailer, not the manufacture. Apple can simply close, or sell to a local 3rd party, it's retails stores and they would be 100% compliant.

Considering there is a big difference between the 1 year manufacture's warranty + EU protection guarantee VS. 3 years of AppleCare, and that Apple now clearly displays this in every retail front they have there... I'm really not sure what more the Italian government wants from them.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:09 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
Saying something twice does not make it more true. It is actually an italian interpretation of an EU directive. Apple is not in trouble in all EU countries, only ones that are looking to shake down Apple for money. EU countries are not required to enforce all of those directives in the same way.
Right, directives regulates the minimum, different countries can extend what they say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
I think you are also a bit confused about the directive. The directive refers to the "retailer". The retailer is required to supply a two year warranty, not the manufacturer
How I'm confused? Apple is the retailer in the Apple Online Store and in their Apple Stores and there is were they were fined.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:10 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
No. Apple is getting into trouble because of the standard 2 year warranty AND the fact that people can't read very,very tiny print.
they are stunning with the new retina display.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:12 PM   #50
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