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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:13 PM   #51
kfscoll
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Originally Posted by Galatian View Post
I can't believe what I'm reading here...

First: This is European law NOT Italian.

Second: If you Americans are willing to pay so much money for gadgets that are only garrantied to run for...what?...90 days...go ahead...no wonder NOBODY except Americans purchase ****** American cars...

Third: The law actually states that in the first year of warranty the producer has to prove the user was handling it wrong, whilst the second year the user has to prove there was a material problem.

Fourth: I just purchased a new MacBook Air and decides against paying over 200€ for one additional year of warranty. What's the chance of a part failing in three year when it hasn't in the two years before? It's more like you have accidental damage or it get's stolen. I rather use the money to buy an insurance in that case.

Fifth: We have a lot of gadget that last decades...think Miele Washmachines...I actually expect them to hold out that long and Miele actually does give you their own 5 year warranty on it as many other manufactures do...Apple is cheeping out on everything to keep their high profit margin. They could easily give you a 5 year warranty as well, but why bother if you have sheeps like you fools you actually think THIS is the reason why Italian economy is bad.

Sixth: On that matter. It is actually a crisis of mostly banks here in Europe...and guess where it started: America...Sublime credits anyone? Just so that you guys can buy crappy houses and ****** car's that you really couldn't afford (including Apple products) the entire world economy has been screwed...So do us the favor and think before giving smart answers...
You must be kidding. American cars certainly aren't the greatest things since sliced bread, but implying that German cars are more reliable? Please. And let's not even talk about the reliability of Italian cars.

As a matter of fact, the highest-rated German car (in terms of reliability) per Consumer Reports' 2012 rankings is the BWM X3...which is built in Spartansburg, South Carolina, USA.

If you're going to insult my country because of your ignorance, look the ****** out. At a bare minimum, get your facts straight.

Tell ya what. You keep your cars and washing machines, and we'll keep our computers. How's that?
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Last edited by kfscoll; Jul 2, 2012 at 01:22 PM.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:14 PM   #52
Torrijos
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Originally Posted by ualymerej View Post
Apple is getting in trouble because customers can't read?
Funny I came to say this ^^
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:14 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by applesith View Post
Requiring 2 year warranties is stupid. It just raises prices for everyone. Let people choose if they want to pay for that extra 2 years of warranty instead of forcing them.
I think we've always paid the 2 years warranty since the exchange rate $/ is always 1:1 (if not worse) and it never follow the real forex exchange.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:15 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by applesith View Post
Requiring 2 year warranties is stupid. It just raises prices for everyone. Let people choose if they want to pay for that extra 2 years of warranty instead of forcing them.
Let the people choose if they want buying broken products and try asking for a replacement afterwards. You can't compare the one-year warranty in USA with one-year warranty in other countries.

In US, the consumer is much more respected because of the high penalties in a lost lawsuit by a company. Usually the standard one-year warranty can be surpassed if an abnormal defect in assembly processes are detected. Recalls happen a lot in USA and maybe the "almost non-defective" units are exported to other countries where the standard 1-year warranty is much less powerful than the american 1-year warranty.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:22 PM   #55
manu chao
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
It is an EU directive, not an Italian law, try again
It as an EU directive but it is an Italian law that implements it and gives it legal force. And the Italian law can differ from the EU directive in that it offers additional consumer protection. Just look at the footnotes in this document:
http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/
Quite a number of countries have additional provisions that go beyond the EU directive (mainly in that the burden of proof rests with the seller beyond the minimum of six months).

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaibelf View Post
NONSENSE. It's not APPLE'S job to inform the Italian public about standard Italian law. It's their government's job. What are they doing, aside from the whole underage scandal thing?
No, it is the requirement of Apple when it sells AppleCare to spell out clearly what is the additional value of it. If it fails to mention the two-year limited warranty, it is employing false advertising as it would be implying that there is no protection at all beyond one year.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:25 PM   #56
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The issue here is that the law is a 2-year warranty enforceable against the merchant, not the manufacturer.

This is important because it would be impossible for the governments to monitor and control every manufacturer from every country for compliance.

What Apple is offering is an extension of THEIR warranty from 1-3 years on computers, 1-2 years on iDevices, where they take care of everything. That includes phone support for 2/3 years instead of 90 days, repair and replacement of products, etc. This is not the same thing as what the 2-year warranty provides.

That Italy claims otherwise is a shakedown effort. They want Apple to bribe them. This is how it works in Italy (and much of the world, including smaller towns in the USA). Bribes and kangaroo courts.

It will all be sorted out. Italy will raise the fine and they won't grant an stay on appeal, so Apple will have to pay the fine in order to stay in business, even during their next appeal.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:26 PM   #57
hamean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galatian View Post

Fifth: We have a lot of gadget that last decades...think Miele Washmachines...I actually expect them to hold out that long and Miele actually does give you their own 5 year warranty on it as many other manufactures do...Apple is cheeping out on everything to keep their high profit margin. They could easily give you a 5 year warranty as well, but why bother if you have sheeps like you fools you actually think THIS is the reason why Italian economy is bad.

Sixth: On that matter. It is actually a crisis of mostly banks here in Europe...and guess where it started: America...Sublime credits anyone? Just so that you guys can buy crappy houses and ****** car's that you really couldn't afford (including Apple products) the entire world economy has been screwed...So do us the favor and think before giving smart answers...
Ok, so you want (1) to buy a laptop with a 5 year warranty and (2) to blame the USA for the EU going down in flames.... good luck finding a laptop with a 5 year warranty. I agree with you that there has been gross financial mismanagement in the USA; but don't blame us for the world's problems. The EU sets its own fiscal policy.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:27 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applesith View Post
Requiring 2 year warranties is stupid. It just raises prices for everyone. Let people choose if they want to pay for that extra 2 years of warranty instead of forcing them.
How is a two year warranty raising prices for "everyone"?

I don't have a problem with paying for extra warranty as long as the price is right. I did that when I purchased my Powerbook G4 and it came in handy because I needed the screen replaced twice. But for a $2000+ Apple product an extra year would be nice. Then just as your two years is about to end you can purchase another two years. I could go with that.

Heck fyi, my $20 coffee pot comes with a two year warranty. I know that's a very different product and service but I thought is was worth mentioning.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:28 PM   #59
rcopus
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Originally Posted by kfscoll View Post
your cars and washing machines, and we'll keep our computers. How's that?
Apple computers are made in the US now? When did that happen?
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:28 PM   #60
Galatian
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Originally Posted by kfscoll View Post
You must be kidding. American cars certainly aren't the greatest things since sliced bread, but implying that German cars are more reliable? Please. And let's not even talk about the reliability of Italian cars.

As a matter of fact, the highest-rated German car (in terms of reliability) per Consumer Reports' 2012 rankings is the BWM X3...which is built in Spartansburg, South Carolina, USA.

If you're going to insult my country because of your ignorance, look the ****** out. At a bare minimum, get your facts straight.

Tell ya what. You keep your cars and washing machines, and we'll keep our computers. How's that?
Ahhhh...were did I suggest anything remotely like that? It's all made in China anyway...my point was, that a lot of people here on MacRumors make it sound like it's a good thing to have less warranty, because American companies have them brainwashed or whatever...I gladly buy a product from a company that gives me a long warranty...that just shows that they are confident in their owns product...

Oh and please...Apple products are made in China as well...
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:30 PM   #61
Bezetos
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Originally Posted by applesith View Post
Requiring 2 year warranties is stupid. It just raises prices for everyone. Let people choose if they want to pay for that extra 2 years of warranty instead of forcing them.
I personally would expect every product I buy to last at least two years.

If I were to pay extra that would be for insurance.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:31 PM   #62
Galatian
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Originally Posted by hamean View Post
Ok, so you want (1) to buy a laptop with a 5 year warranty and (2) to blame the USA for the EU going down in flames.... good luck finding a laptop with a 5 year warranty. I agree with you that there has been gross financial mismanagement in the USA; but don't blame us for the world's problems. The EU sets its own fiscal policy.
True and this is completely off-topic, BUT it all started with the sublime banking crisis and I completely disagree on how the EU handles all that (guess what...they keep pouring more money to those poor poor banks...). But the US is not making it any better with the way they are making debts and especially with those rating houses...
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:31 PM   #63
foobarbaz
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I'm tired of people discussing the wrong issue whenever this topic comes up.

The EU doesn't simply mandate "two years of warranty" that is equivalent to AppleCare. EU warranty only applies to defects that already existed at the time of sale. And after 6 months, the customer has to prove that the defect existed back then. The effective warranty (i.e. the one 99% of people get to use) is 6 months.

Also, the warranty has to provided by the seller, not the manufacturer.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:31 PM   #64
manu chao
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Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
Simple. Charge a 10% premium in Italy under the same scheme as currency adjustments, offer the 2 year warranty requested.
You are not getting it, aren't you? It is not about offering the two-year warranty, Apple already offers it. It is about Apple advertising it clearly enough that it offers it.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:31 PM   #65
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I guess one shouldn't forget that the two year warranty, or better 1+1, also benefits consumers outside of the EU. It forces companies to produce products that are more likely to survive two years. I doubt that apple or many others use cheaper components for their computers/products shipped outside of the EU, so the benefit trickles over to other consumers too. So these "crappy EU laws" also benefit the consumer in the US.
The directive was supposed to protect EU consumers from cheap products flooding the markets. And no, they didn't have premium computers in mind when passing this directive.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:36 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by HelveticaRoman View Post
I can read Latin, but I don't understand a word of it.
Surprising, given your username ...
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:37 PM   #67
unlinked
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
It is an EU directive, perhaps Apple should call their bluff and just pull out of all the EU
I'm sure Apple are going to pull out of an economy that is about the same size as the US. Sure. See that happening.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:38 PM   #68
pandamonia
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Originally Posted by guerro View Post
Is there any wonder why Italy's economy is in the *******? Toilet? Crapper?
Last time i checked so was yours.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:38 PM   #69
ScoobyMcDoo
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So, I'm curious, do European companies push these extended warranties? Here in the US, we are hounded to buy them for just about everything but groceries. Personally, I never buy them as I realize that they are all a rip-off.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:39 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Galatian View Post
Just so that you guys can buy crappy houses and ****** car's that you really couldn't afford (including Apple products) the entire world economy has been screwed
I'm confused. Is the "Apple products" the house or the car?
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:40 PM   #71
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So, Apple gets slapped down a bit for breaking the laws in a country where it chooses to do business. And hundreds of people flock here to say Apple was right and the other country's laws are wrong. It doesn't matter it's their country, they make the rules, Apple can obey them or not do business there.

Steve Jobs was a genius to build up such a base of blind rabid fans.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:41 PM   #72
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It's funny how so many Americans (and I am one of them) are concerned about European laws. Clearly they want the best for you Europeans. And while we are at it, in addition to scrapping this particular law, we also want you to drop your ridiculous 2 months vacations (keep it within one week like we do here), your labor protection laws, support for International Criminals Court, support for UN, support for common sense in general.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:42 PM   #73
manu chao
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Originally Posted by smellalot View Post
There you go.


Exactly, that would be what can be called misleading advertising. Except that I don't find that graphic on the Italian Apple website. Here is the main page on AppleCare which has a very small footnote (**) explaining the two-year warranty:
http://www.apple.com/it/support/products/

That footnote however is missing on the next page:
http://store.apple.com/it/browse/home/applecare

This whole discussion is one about nuances, ie, how prominent the explanation of the two-year warranty has to be. Without actually having read the Italian decision, we don't really know what exactly they want Apple to do. Just that they want Apple to do more than it currently does.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:43 PM   #74
Kwill
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Apple, it's a well-articualated table that describes the coverage differences.

The problem is that Italy's government is used to just two consumer choices:
  1. 2-year government required coverage
  2. 2-year government required coverage
What is this AppleCare of which you speak?
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 01:44 PM   #75
sinser
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I'm italian and I won't defend Apple. Only in recent times they have written clearly, ,here, that you get the 2 year European warranty. In the past there was no mention about, only about the 1 year warranty that could be extended through Apple Care.
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