Jonathan Ive on Design and Apple's Focus on Great Products Instead of Profits

the read · Jul 31, 2012

Reach9 said:
what an incorrect statement. Every competitive company's goal is to maximize profits. Their goal is to make money.
Jonny is trying to make it look like Apple is different than any other company, when in it's definition it's the same as Samsung, RIM, Google etc, ... their goal is to make money.
Apple makes great products to get money, but money is still the main driving force.

Also, if a two-toned iPhone is their 'best work yet'.. then i'm unpleasantly surprised.

I agree, Apples best work seams to be the soulless marketing campaigns that brain wash people with an over use of words like, beautiful, amazing, the most impressive, blah blah blah.... I'd like a little modesty please.

And while on this rant, how about giving the ability to connect my new Mac book pro with an industry standard Ethernet port. Where was the forward thinking their Apple? or would that make the computer look too ugly. As a soloution it's not cool that I have to go out of my way and shed more cash on an adapter and carry it everywhere I go.

Apple = looks over functionality.

gotluck · Jul 31, 2012

smoledman said:
The Retina Macbook Pro is now considered the greatest laptop of all time.

bahahaha!!!

Eso · Jul 31, 2012

Hrm, the most profitable tech company in the world that intentionally withholds features from last generation devices and designs for obsolescence cares more about their products than profits?

Right...

barmann · Jul 31, 2012

phillipduran said:
The proof is in the quality of the product. Apple could design products that cut corners and sacrifices quality and they do not. They build the best devices that they can reasonably create, and sell those. The focus is on quality not on using what is good enough because it will increase profit margins. ....

Why is it so hard to believe that some companies put the product first and that all decisions are not based on profits before all other considerations?

Apple used to be quality over quantity; then they discovered gadgets , and advanced marketing.

The iPod was great, the iMac too, iPad and iPhone are for profit only, and iOS has nailed the coffin .
More than any hardware, iOS is responsible for Apple giving up its edge, the user experience .

The iPhone is a mediocre phone, which is ok with me; allowing OSX to be compromised by basic gadgets and short lived social media access, for the sake of quick profit, has put Apple on the road to become yet another supplier of mass produced toys .

All the iFans will jump ship when the tide turns, as their only investment in the brand is a wireless contract .

NT1440 · Jul 31, 2012

Eso said:
Hrm, the most profitable tech company in the world that intentionally withholds features from last generation devices and designs for obsolescence cares more about their products than profits?

Right...

Many of those features simply do not work properly in many conditions to warrant being released on those devices. I've seen siri hacked on an iphone 4, the speech recognition is not up to snuff (no second microphone to filter background noise, or the second proximity sensor).

Thats just one example but I've seen many features put onto iphones that don't support it and usually its just too many workarounds and headaches to deal with.

So yes, they do care about having products that work as they should, not ones that work but crash or freeze fairly consistently.

the read · Jul 31, 2012

Jon the Heretic said:
Yes, that's because China has a totalitarian government coupled with massive overpopulation. China itself often picks up the bill for factory expansions, passing the savings to corporations who are more than happy to accept state-sponsored welfare. Apple included here.

China also has a rather checkered safety record. Everyone hates those pesky regulations, but when you wave them, people die or are injured. I positively choked on the smog in China when I was there...it's no hole barred capitalism -- health of its people and the environment be damned. But it saves a nickle, right?

Moreover, because China has manipulated their currency, Chinese engineers are super cheap even when they have the same standard of living. I'll take 2, 3! uH, WHAT did he say again? (Communication is so overrated).

Totalitarian Communism: Capitalism's New Best Friend.

Dont foret China is also making the biggest investments in green energy, and currently has much tighter and more stringent regulations that the US.

Which country isn't manipulating it's currency. Europe is on its knees about to collaps because governments let banks manipulate the financial markets.

China is creating a new world, with new cities for a new age. Sure it not problem free and not all in China are benefiting, but it is the land of opportunity right now, (so long as your chinease). The rest of us can keep our fingers crossed the ression will end and our economies will pick up.....

smoledman · Jul 31, 2012

NT1440 said:
Many of those features simply do not work properly in many conditions to warrant being released on those devices. I've seen siri hacked on an iphone 4, the speech recognition is not up to snuff (no second microphone to filter background noise, or the second proximity sensor).

Thats just one example but I've seen many features put onto iphones that don't support it and usually its just too many workarounds and headaches to deal with.

So yes, they do care about having products that work as they should, not ones that work but crash or freeze fairly consistently.

My Lumia 900 never crashes or freezes, neither does my Windows 7 PC.

NT1440 · Jul 31, 2012

smoledman said:
My Lumia 900 never crashes or freezes, neither does my Windows 7 PC.

Thats great, neither does my installation of W7....

But I was talking about shoehorning iOS features into devices that are no longer supported....

Also, I can't believe with the massive gamble Windows Phone is taking that they aren't updating the Lumina 900 to 8. It's a beautiful phone with an OS that would be great if they did manage to upgrade to 8. What a pity.

JohnDoe98 · Jul 31, 2012

NT1440 said:
Many of those features simply do not work properly in many conditions to warrant being released on those devices. I've seen siri hacked on an iphone 4, the speech recognition is not up to snuff (no second microphone to filter background noise, or the second proximity sensor).

Thats just one example but I've seen many features put onto iphones that don't support it and usually its just too many workarounds and headaches to deal with.

So yes, they do care about having products that work as they should, not ones that work but crash or freeze fairly consistently.

How do you explain the original ipad not getting iOS 6 support when the iPhone 3GS has the same hardware capacities yet it is receiving some version of iOS? That has nothing to do with product quality and everything to do with force obsolescence.

NT1440 · Jul 31, 2012

JohnDoe98 said:
How do you explain the original ipad not getting iOS 6 support when the iPhone 3GS has the same hardware capacities yet it is receiving some version of iOS? That has nothing to do with product quality and everything to do with force obsolescence.

I'm sure there is a usability/technical reason, but I don't know. I, however, do recognize that hardware wise, the iPad is not the same hardware as the 3GS.

I'm also only willing to speculate rather than boldly make assertions based on nothing (underlined) but a notion.

larrylaffer · Jul 31, 2012

Thunderhawks said:
Knowledge is power.

You don't seem to have knowledge!

(Especially not about paying employees and how companies arrive at what to pay for which skills)

>implying I'm not a director of engineering.

sireShonBohn · Jul 31, 2012

Ping Guo said:
There are many, many types of glass, some scratch-prone, others virtually scratchproof. Same goes for polycarbonate.

Oh really? I have some wonderful glass iPhone cases I'd like to sell to you, guaranteed not to scratch when dropped.

Scratching aside, polycarbonate has many other desirable properties from an engineering standpoint. It is extremely strong, impact-resistant, and light weight. It's used in surgical devices, knee and hip replacements, and bulletproof glass.

Polycarbonate also contains BPA, a chemical in the news recently for causing hormonal imbalances.

saturn88 · Jul 31, 2012

flux73 said:
Please name a single company with manufacturing plants in the US that have the production capacity to make the quantity that Apple needs at a cost that will allow them to make a profit with their current prices.

I have already named American companies which already supply Apple with components (then shipped to China): Corning glass, Qualcomm 4G chip, Broadcom Bluetooth/FM/WLAN modules, baseboard by TriQuint, audio by Texas Instr, CMOS by Micron. Other capacities can be build for Apple in US just like they build them for Apple in China, Korea, Japan and Brazil. Sure, the american made components will reduce Apple profit margins from 40% to maybe 25%, but hey, profit for Apple is not the highest priority. Right? What's a point of keeping $110 billion profit in Asian banks anyway?

And then think of all the benefits manufacturing in US: Apple money will stay in American banks, new manufacturing capacities created, hundreds of thousands jobs created, and at the end all these employed Americans will buy more Apple products. Somehow GM, Ford, Toyota, Benz, Honda manage building good cars in America while making profits.

Thunderhawks · Jul 31, 2012

saturn88 said:
I have already named American companies which already supply Apple with components (then shipped to China): Corning glass, Qualcomm 4G chip, Broadcom Bluetooth/FM/WLAN modules, baseboard by TriQuint, audio by Texas Instr, CMOS by Micron. Other capacities can be build for Apple in US just like they build them for Apple in China, Korea, Japan and Brazil. Sure, the american made components will reduce Apple profit margins from 40% to maybe 25%, but hey, profit for Apple is not the highest priority. Right? What's a point of keeping $110 billion profit in Asian banks anyway?

And then think of all the benefits manufacturing in US: Apple money will stay in American banks, new manufacturing capacities created, hundreds of thousands jobs created, and at the end all these employed Americans will buy more Apple products. Somehow GM, Ford, Toyota, Benz, Honda manage building good cars in America while making profits.

Here we go again. Discussed many times, so please get educated.

The car makers you mention do not make millions of pieces of anything. And certainly not mostly by hand in assembly.

Google why USA cannot make Apple products in the US and you will see.

Plenty of articles.

Even the NY Times while it likes to give Apple a kick gets that right.

Hint: Not enough people or for that matter engineers.

Greymacuser · Jul 31, 2012

What a pretty speech Mr. Ives.
Now will this mean Apple Computers will actually start making real computers again or just keep heaping more iOS toys on us that do professionals absolutely NO good?

Where's the Mac pro that you weren't planning on making until people started yelling about it and called you out on?

If you're the top profiting company in the world now, why am I still paying inflated prices as if you only make a fraction of that profit like you did in the 90's?

It's just more hot air from another Apple talking head.

Yes, I'm grumpy. I'm sick of this company making more unusable toys and less real computers.

LarryC · Jul 31, 2012

Quote: "Jonathan Ive on Design and Apple's Focus on Great Products Instead of Profits."

JohnDoe98 · Jul 31, 2012

NT1440 said:
I'm sure there is a usability/technical reason, but I don't know. I, however, do recognize that hardware wise, the iPad is not the same hardware as the 3GS.

I'm also only willing to speculate rather than boldly make assertions based on nothing (underlined) but a notion.

Well, the iPad 1 has the same CPU architecture but it runs at 1ghz instead of 600mhz, it has the same GPU and it has the same amount of RAM. So hardware wise it should do everything the iPhone 3GS does and more. If there is a technical/usability reason, so far I haven't seen any indication of it and the onus is on those claiming there must be a usability/technical reason to provide it. Absent that the only plausible reason so far is that Apple is forcing obsolescence. Typically whenever features are left out, there are clever people who are in the know who point to hardware capabilities missing, but here everyone is silent. I wonder why.

koruki · Jul 31, 2012

saturn88 said:
Yea, right, "Steve mentioned". Does the "industry exists" in Brazil, which is another Apple's cheap place of assembly? America has much more "industry" then Barzil and China combined.

All these components Apple can get in America: Corning glass, Micron flash memory, Qualcomm 4G/LTE chip, Broadcom Bluetooth/FM/WLAN modules, baseboard by TriQuint, audio by Texas Instr, Kingston and Crusial RAM, CMOS and WiFi chips by Micron. There are also plenty of processor manufacturers in America, including Intel, INVIDIA and even Samsung's new plant in Texas.

No major mobile components manufactured in China nor Brazil, so all tech components have to be imported. These two countries just provide cheap mechanical assemply labor contributing to Apple's fat profits which sit in Asian banks and probably never come back to US.

Yeah and how much would that phone cost? Would you buy it?

No parts made in China, yeah they are imported, guess from where. Who supplies the CPU for iPhone? Samsung, oh look they just opened a factory in Texas. Last time I checked, Texas was in America. Ignore that Apple occupies such a major share of the American GDP, but complain that it needs to assemble their products where the entire world assembles their products? Indirectly creating jobs in America isn't good enough, no no, you got to build some crap and pour money down the drain to please people? A company is successful and suddenly they people want them to stop being competitive, bring it home and wait til they bankrupt.

It wasn't that long ago when Apple was nearly bankrupt, and guess where their stuff was made before nearing bankruptcy?

saturn88 · Jul 31, 2012

Thunderhawks said:
Google why USA cannot make Apple products in the US and you will see. Plenty of articles.

Here is one for you:

Apple Can Afford to Make iPhone in U.S.
"If Apple were willing to accept lower margins and the 8 hours of assembly labor on the iPhone were on-shore and paid at U.S. rates, Apple would still have a gross margin of nearly 50 percent,"
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2403416,00.asp

Thunderhawks said:
Hint: Not enough people or for that matter engineers.

Hint: Apple assembles less phones in huge China then Samsung in tiny Korea. Enough people? Tiny Finland assembles more phones then US.

Thunderhawks said:
The car makers you mention do not make millions of pieces of anything.

Compare to a phone, car is actually made of many more components and requires a much more complex manufacturing infrastructure.

Rennir · Jul 31, 2012

JohnDoe98 said:
Excluding NGOs and non-profits, would I still disagree with that premise? Yes.

If you disagree with the premise then we'll just have to agree to disagree about the original premise. I have no qualms with people believing that businesses have better intentions than making money. As long as you don't believe Apple is the only one.

boss.king · Jul 31, 2012

axual said:
Evidence would suggest Apple products priced correctly for the market, else they would not be selling anywhere near the numbers they are doing.

The point here is that Apple does not put profits ahead of product and design.

If you build a great product, the profits will follow. If you build a great product, with higher quality, people will pay a bit more for it.

I'd say Apple put profit on an equal or higher footing than product design. They do make good products, I never denied that, but they can't say they don't focus on profit when they have such huge profit margins on their products. Yes, they focus on product design, but they also focus on profit. They don't just have one goal.

JohnDoe98 · Jul 31, 2012

Rennir said:
If you disagree with the premise then we'll just have to agree to disagree about the original premise. I have no qualms with people believing that businesses have better intentions than making money. As long as you don't believe Apple is the only one.

Sounds fair.

jontas · Jul 31, 2012

Rennir said:
If you disagree with his point, you realize you won't be able to pull the "But Apple is just a company like every other company in the world! Their main goal is profits!" excuse every time the NYT or some other source publishes an article lambasting Apple for being unethical right?

Who said you have to be ethical to pursue great products?

Greymacuser · Jul 31, 2012

jontas said:
Who said you have to be ethical to pursue great products?

It would help if they actually made great products.

G51989 · Jul 31, 2012

Greymacuser said:
It would help if they actually made great products.

Who? Apple? Apple makes great consumer products. So does samsung.

Jonathan Ive on Design and Apple's Focus on Great Products Instead of Profits

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