Sure. Welcome to the future where we avoid 1080P content and are happy with sub standard 720P or nothing.
Does anyone think the 21.5" models can allow DIY SSD upgrades? I feel like buying one without the Fusion Drive and just throwing in a 256GB SSD.
If that 1080 content is based on the original Japanese analog HDTV format, then heck yeah I'd be happy with sticking with an TV 2.
While optical storage has its benefits, it's being abandoned despite those benefits. People are willing to put up with some practical regression in favor for other benefits.
I had an amusing discussion with coworkers recently about music formats. The youngest group member (a recent PhD grad) said little but had a bemused/flabbergasted look, in the end admitting to having not purchased any audio/video content on physical media for the last 10 years.
Optical media is dead, it just hasn't stopped moving yet.
isn't something different about the glass and LCD screen this time around? i remember them saying that there is no gap or something of that nature, so i would think that the process is more difficult than previous generations to upgrade the hard drive
This is of course what Apple wants. People need to buy RAM from Apple with much higher price than elsewhere and maybe they don't even need it.Then those people can upgrade the RAM to 16GB in the store. Case closed
The only Apple's product that I'd like to weight less is full size ipad. That's the only device that should be as easy to hold on a hand as traditional book. When I carry my mbp in a backpack, it doesn't matter if it weights a pound less or more. Surprisingly my desk can also support a desktop computer of any weight without a sweat.I think Apple has the technological equivalent of a body perception disorder. I can understand a thinner iPad and iPhone (to a point) since you are holding them in your hand. But, a thinner desktop makes no sense.
And while I think getting rid of the optical drive is great for laptops (I almost never use discs on my laptop), but I use my optical drive quite often on my iMac, sometimes sharing with my MBA when I do need it. Seems unnecessary to take it off the iMac just to make it thin.
Still the speed isn't irrelevant when you are handling data that is not "used most often". They are also overcharging the SSD price; $250 for 128GB!? And if you don't pay this, you'll have slower computer than older iMacs, which they of course don't sell anymore. Nice extortion, once again!The fusion drive will make the platter speed of the HDD pretty much irrelevant for the programs you use most often.
I've up/downgraded my father's imac's hdd several times (first bigger to store more tv programs, then smaller when big hdd went to NAS). Apple designed it really awkward to do, but if new imac's design follows new mbp's it might be practically impossible now.Actually iMac never accepted HD upgrades and only some generation had user replaceable ram, this is one that doesn't.
Digital downloads are much more worse milking than optical disks.For one thing, there IS already the possibility of doing 1080p video content with mechanisms other than reading it from optical discs.
Blu-Ray, like standard DVD movies that came before them, inherently suck because they're encrypted with keys the movie industry demands royalties be paid on by everyone building hardware or software to play them back. There are plenty of ways to encode a movie digitally. The industry just arbitrarily picked a format and locked it down so they could milk extra profits from it for as long as people kept using it.
I know most consumers don't care, as long as they can stick the disc in a drive and watch the movie. But Apple is really right, IMO. The format needs to go away, and digital distribution is probably the one viable thing right now that will push it towards obsolescence.
Media is not dead. Its going to take a form that none of the online content providers are ready and the infrastructure to deliver them doesn't exist.
4k Movies are on the horizon...
Try watching this in your beloved Mac..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd09US5LNaE&feature=channel&list=UL
Choose the format as "original" the one *above* 1080P. Were you able to watch it uninterrupted?
Congrats on your internet connection and you are probably the top 5% of people with that sort of connection.
NHK Japan is already broadcasting 8k video. Will take two decades for us to catch on, but still.
Content is going to get larger and larger, resolutions will double or triple and Apple TV will be the lone soldier trumpeting its iTunes store and crappy videos.
Have fun watching pixelated video on a very beautiful machine.
But it seems pretty ironic to me that just few years ago Apple advertised iMac as "clutter free all-in-one" and compared it some Dell desktop with lots of cables. Now macs are becoming clutterfull none-in-ones, when you need external hdd's, maybe also external ssd, external odd and for the icing on the cake; external gpu!
This is of course what Apple wants. People need to buy RAM from Apple with much higher price than elsewhere and maybe they don't even need it.
Nobody knows how much 10.9, 10.10 or 10.11 (new OS every year means that within 3 years of appleCare your computer need to handle 3 generations of OS's) and new apps need.
Apple wins, customer loses, case closed.
The only Apple's product that I'd like to weight less is full size ipad. That's the only device that should be as easy to hold on a hand as traditional book. When I carry my mbp in a backpack, it doesn't matter if it weights a pound less or more. Surprisingly my desk can also support a desktop computer of any weight without a sweat.
I also want dvd drive in my laptop as much as floppy drive. I have external bd-burner sized about a double cd jewel case.
But it seems pretty ironic to me that just few years ago Apple advertised iMac as "clutter free all-in-one" and compared it some Dell desktop with lots of cables. Now macs are becoming clutterfull none-in-ones, when you need external hdd's, maybe also external ssd, external odd and for the icing on the cake; external gpu!
Still the speed isn't irrelevant when you are handling data that is not "used most often". They are also overcharging the SSD price; $250 for 128GB!? And if you don't pay this, you'll have slower computer than older iMacs, which they of course don't sell anymore. Nice extortion, once again!
I've up/downgraded my father's imac's hdd several times (first bigger to store more tv programs, then smaller when big hdd went to NAS). Apple designed it really awkward to do, but if new imac's design follows new mbp's it might be practically impossible now.
This might also be the reason of new design after all. HP showed how all-in-one workstations should be done(Z1); everything is modular and easily changed and still fits your desktop. Apple lost this game, so they had to invent something new: lets make it thin, even if nobody benefits from it, but it looks nice! Talk about form over function...
Digital downloads are much more worse milking than optical disks.
And why optical disk needs to go away? It's shiny and glances as hell, so Apple should really love it!
It's also very ecological when you don't need heat your basement with massive disk array to watch one movie and it's also the most cost effective; pressing a 50GB disk cost less than a buck. It's also easier to use than any Apple's product. Maybe because of these bd is the king of industry globally in all statistics.
All the signs show that Apple is perfecting their campaign to artificially shorten their products' lifespan. Every little physical break-up that used to mean easy repair now means throw away the whole thing:
You have faulty RAM and didn't get / out of appleCare? Go buy a new mac!
Didn't get Fusion Drive and now the mac is slow? Go buy a new mac!
Want to have bigger internal storage or the original broke? Go buy a new mac!
Suddenly it seems very logical why Apple hates so much headless expandable computer that would have reasonable horsepower and price.
It's also much more profitable to assembly desktops from laptop components, when 80% of your computer sales comes from laptops. Especially when computers are only 15% of your overall business...
4K movies ARE on the NEAR horizon, just as how DVD movies were on the near horizon for most in the late 90s. No one was asking for DVD quality on all of our content - the "internet pipes" if you will, of the DVD pressers and blank discs - were extremely expensive - just like a fast internet connection is today (Well, fast enough for SHD video that is)
On that 5K video, If the content was on a better host, sure I would (Youtube only lets down 1Mbit/Sec max). Most of New York City would, in fact, where the average residential connection is over 30MBit/sec. Living in NYC suburbs, I have FiOS and my internet is 75Mbit/sec - it's wickedly fast. For people in the right situations - HD streaming is the present. For most people, it's in the near future, as ISP speeds increase and price decreases.
True, NHK Japan is broadcasting 8K video (4K 3D that is). Just like they did 1080i in 1983...
If you think Apple TV, along with broadband, isn't going to get faster and better in the next few years, you're nuts. There were HD-Tapes made at one point (1983!!), but they died out because tapes sucked. There are HD and SHD discs- but those will die out, because they too will eventually suck in comparison to better formats (which is currently Solid state and online. Guess which is more convenient - not to mention cheaper)
All I'm trying to say is - TIME MARCHES ON. And the proof-of-concept tech won't work for everyone, but the underlying concept will.
NHK Japan is not broadcasting 4k in 3D. Its broadcasting true 8k.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/8k-ultra-high-def-tv-365291
You seriously think the broadband across the globe will increase rapidly without having to pay an arm and leg for the service? Will every household be able to afford that service so the content providers can rely on it as a distribution medium?
Apple still doesn't offer its own software for download through iTunes. Because its huge. Example - Logic Studio.
We can all hope but there is no way online fibers are going to be effective at streaming the content of tomorrow.
Digital downloads are much more worse milking than optical disks.
And why optical disk needs to go away? It's shiny and glances as hell, so Apple should really love it!
It's also very ecological when you don't need heat your basement with massive disk array to watch one movie and it's also the most cost effective; pressing a 50GB disk cost less than a buck. It's also easier to use than any Apple's product. Maybe because of these bd is the king of industry globally in all statistics.
All the signs show that Apple is perfecting their campaign to artificially shorten their products' lifespan. Every little physical break-up that used to mean easy repair now means throw away the whole thing:
You have faulty RAM and didn't get / out of appleCare? Go buy a new mac!
Didn't get Fusion Drive and now the mac is slow? Go buy a new mac!
Want to have bigger internal storage or the original broke? Go buy a new mac!
Suddenly it seems very logical why Apple hates so much headless expandable computer that would have reasonable horsepower and price.
It's also much more profitable to assembly desktops from laptop components, when 80% of your computer sales comes from laptops. Especially when computers are only 15% of your overall business...
Apple didn't change anything in the industry with original iMac. It had so tiny fraction of industry. Only few last years Apple has had so big piece of the pie that it really matters. Anyway Apple was last to adopt hdmi, so what did that revolutionaize? Would macs be now better without it?You so don't get it. You're still thinking like someone in 2002. You make the comparison to the 1999 iMac, which in it's time was a "None in one" as you put it. People didn't want USB ports in 1999, they wanted their FLOPPY DRIVE. Just like you want your Optical Disc drive. It was SLOWER than the easily upgradeable PMG3 AIO - look it up. It was prettier, and smaller, yes - but it outsold it nearly 100 to 1. It changed computer history - the way we think of our computers. I agree that Apple charges too much for SSDs and RAM - but hey, they're a company, dude. (And PS - it's not slower than last gen - the 5400RPM disc is 2 platters, so it's actually just about if not FASTER than the old 4 platter drives...)
More than half of computer's carbon footprint comes from manufacturing and NAS use more energy for streaming one movie from it than pressing an optical disc of the same movie. You could press 1000 optical discs with computer's carbon footprint. And by making computer non-expandable and non-repairable Apple has made mac's carbon footprint many times bigger.And ODD are ecological?? WTF are you spewing dude? To make a disc, you need extremely thin metal and plastic, as well as casing for the disc, paper for all the crap inside the casing, and then you need to SHIP it to the store, and most likely SHIP it again to wherever you're located.
I know that I'm trapped because I like OsX. Maybe it is finally time for me to build hackintosh. I just don't like the idea of some update breaking up the whole system. And for years, I've enjoyed more using the computer, than building them. I also don't have enough time to tinkering and OsX's support (drivers) for hardware is really flaky for me. I hope there will be more TB acceptance in the industry and so on... Everything would be so much easier if Apple licensed OsX to other manufacturers.If pure upgradeability is more important than functionality (laptops) or design (desktops) maybe the Mac isn't for you..
I'd guess nobody, that doesn't have too much money or need MP now for make a living, would be happy to buy present model. Price is too high and tach badly outdated. No good price-power ratio GPU, no usb3, no TB, no bd.If anything, buy a Mac Pro and be happy with its expandability.
They take all features out of all-in-one, say that is clutter free and you are forced to have clutter your desk with external boxes and cables for every feature you need. What's the point making the clutter free none-in-one anyway? For those who use it as decoration?Apple doesn't clutter your life...YOU do. They didn't force you to dangle a bunch of drives off your computer.
Yes. Firstly, a back cover that you could take off would take up more space than a non-removable one, due to the fact that there has to be latches protruding into the phone that hold it on. Secondly, under the back cover and under the removable battery there would need to be another layer of plastic or metal so that the logic board is not exposed when you flip the back cover off. Thirdly, the removable back cover that would be needed to have a removable battery would diminish the build quality of the phone. It would no longer be unibody, so it would be more flimsy and creaky in hand - Whatsmore, if you remove and replace the back cover on a phone enough times the little plastic latches that hold it in wear out, so the cover literally falls off at the drop of a hat. Losing your phone's back cover is not fun.
It's a shame they don't offer any SSD or Fusion Drive option for the base 21". That will mean that the cheapest config with the fusion drive will be at least $1750.
It's really simple.
If Apple sees a lot of complaints combined with a dip in sales, they will reconsider. They brought back Firewire on MBP 13" after an avalanche of complaints, and upgrading RAM on Mac Mini is arguably easier than on any other computer on the market -- you just turn the bottom lid and open it like a big jar, without any tools, pop in some RAM and you're done. The previous model was Fort Knox.
If on the other hand the new iMac is a big hit and the complaints are no worse than normal, then the evolution of iMacs will continue along its current trajectory.
It's like Kim Kardashian, Looks thin and sexy from the front and then suddenly BAM! Big Ol' Booty!
But hopefully iMac isn't Vapid like her.
Sure. Welcome to the future where we avoid 1080P content and are happy with sub standard 720P or nothing. The future were we actually embrace our past.
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This new iMac I believe is Jony Ivey gone wild. From what we have read so far, I don't think anyone can really say NO to Jony as per Steve's biography. So Jony did the design and asked the hardware guys to fit their stuff in there. And this is the best the hardware guys can do. (A guess of course which seems very probable)
Need someone with common sense than design sense to balance the equation.
Who will that be at Apple?
For one thing, there IS already the possibility of doing 1080p video content with mechanisms other than reading it from optical discs.
Blu-Ray, like standard DVD movies that came before them, inherently suck because they're encrypted with keys the movie industry demands royalties be paid on by everyone building hardware or software to play them back. There are plenty of ways to encode a movie digitally. The industry just arbitrarily picked a format and locked it down so they could milk extra profits from it for as long as people kept using it.
I know most consumers don't care, as long as they can stick the disc in a drive and watch the movie. But Apple is really right, IMO. The format needs to go away, and digital distribution is probably the one viable thing right now that will push it towards obsolescence.
I mean ... consider the fact that NOBODY running a free, open-source operating system can legally watch a DVD movie using it, simply because the decoders out there all illegally decrypt the content (refused to pay the licensing fee on code they give away absolutely free in the first place!). You're literally breaking federal law every time you use Linux to watch a DVD movie you bought at the store! How stupid is that??
With 8GB of RAM standard, even on the low end model, is this really an issue? The iMac is an all-in-one, designed for plug and play. Not designed to be an upgradable power house for gaming and the like. 8GB of RAM is waaaay more than the vast majority will ever use. And for those that want more, know they'll need it before they buy it and can upgrade then. Sure it's pricier to upgrade through Apple, but it isn't news that Apple stuff is pricey.
I was going to buy, but with the 21.5 model coming with a 5400 rpm drive, it's a no sale. Even with Fusion Drive, it's still a 5400 rpm drive. There are 7200 rpm drives available Apple. I'd rather you just made it a 128GB SSD and let it be. I'll be sticking with my iMac mid 2010 for the foreseeable future. Hopefully they change their tune in 2013. 27" is way too big and certainly too expensive for my needs. If this continues in 2013, I'll move to Windows 8, along with the rest of my devices. If this is how they want to play it, then let's play the game.
Does anyone think the 21.5" models can allow DIY SSD upgrades? I feel like buying one without the Fusion Drive and just throwing in a 256GB SSD.
You can play "what ifs" with everything.
Fact is with 64-bit computing the ability to address 16 GB of RAM is significant. Even if future versions of OS X require more memory the speed hit isn't that significant if you upgrade your storage subsystem to SSD type speeds.
Apple doesn't clutter your life...YOU do. They didn't force you to dangle a bunch of drives off your computer. There's a reason why companies have storage arrays.
Apple didn't change anything in the industry with original iMac. It had so tiny fraction of industry. Only few last years Apple has had so big piece of the pie that it really matters. Anyway Apple was last to adopt hdmi, so what did that revolutionaize? Would macs be now better without it?
And PPS. Desktops with 3.5" 7200 RPM are much faster than 2.5" 5400 RPM. No matter how many platters there are.
More than half of computer's carbon footprint comes from manufacturing and NAS use more energy for streaming one movie from it than pressing an optical disc of the same movie. You could press 1000 optical discs with computer's carbon footprint. And by making computer non-expandable and non-repairable Apple has made mac's carbon footprint many times bigger.
I know that I'm trapped because I like OsX. Maybe it is finally time for me to build hackintosh. I just don't like the idea of some update breaking up the whole system. And for years, I've enjoyed more using the computer, than building them. I also don't have enough time to tinkering and OsX's support (drivers) for hardware is really flaky for me. I hope there will be more TB acceptance in the industry and so on... Everything would be so much easier if Apple licensed OsX to other manufacturers.
I'm a hopeless dreamer, but knowing about technology and understanding what Apple could do with they power in the industry just makes me sad.
I think it's great that Apple tries to simplify using computers to those who benefit from it, but at the same time they could give more options to advanced users. But Apple isn't Apple Computer anymore and they like more making money than as great computers as possible.
When about 3% of their revenue comes from desktops and probably a lot less of their profits, desktop computers are any longer only a PR thing for Apple. And that's at least what new iMac really looks like; form so much over the function, that they might be at the end of the road for that.
After HP's Z1 I just can't not to think what iMac could be. They could build different versions: none-in-one (no expandability or repairability like new iMac), all-in-one (like previous iMacs + some more) and choose-what-in-one. The last one would be totally modular where user could add bricks behind the screen (maybe through miniPCI?) which could be GPU, HDD, SDD, ODD, RAM slots, more ports and whatnot!
You want sleek? Well, add nothing to default built.
Want blu-ray? Just clip it in!
Want 3.5" hdd? Just clip it in!
Want 4G modem that works outside US? Just clip it in!
Want second (or descreet) GPU with 2 hdmi's and sdi (all both in and out)? Just clip it in!
Want 10G ethernet + SAS + fw800 + 2 TB more? Just clip it in!
Want dvb-s2/t2/c2 tuner with CA-slot? Just clip it in!
Who needs unibody desktop? Watch your computer from behind a lot? Drop it a lot from the desk?
The 21.5 model seems to have been made considerably worse in many ways.
At least the 27 inch hasn't been ruined to the same extent it seems.
"640K ought to be enough for anybody."who the hell needs 16 GB of ram. Jesus christ. Unless you are running video software, my 2 year old i7 with 8 GB ram can handle just about everything I throw at it.
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RAM slots on the iMac? Is this what Tim Cook meant when he said he had something great in store for Mac Pro users?
I guess I'm one of the 17. Only 16 more to go...
I had 16G of RAM from Crucial waiting for my iMac the day I bought it. The 27" is too big for my desk and the extra RAM helps when testing VMs. No reason to pay Apple's insane prices for memory.