Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Nunyabinez

macrumors 68000
Apr 27, 2010
1,758
2,230
Provo, UT
I'll keep my 2011 21.5" iMac thanks. I get a 7200 RPM drive and can upgrade the RAM myself up to 32GB. I don't care if my computer is thin, I care if it's functional. Apple is going too far with their drive for thinness.

I would never notice the thinness of a new iMac. When I use my desktop I'm looking straight on, and I don't move it around, so what difference does it make if it is thinner and lighter?

I think Apple has the technological equivalent of a body perception disorder. I can understand a thinner iPad and iPhone (to a point) since you are holding them in your hand. But, a thinner desktop makes no sense.

And while I think getting rid of the optical drive is great for laptops (I almost never use discs on my laptop), but I use my optical drive quite often on my iMac, sometimes sharing with my MBA when I do need it. Seems unnecessary to take it off the iMac just to make it thin.
 

Luap

macrumors 65816
Jul 5, 2004
1,249
743
Professionals dont have much choice in a different model entirely. Like I said, Apple doesnt give a damn about professionals,

Agreed. Oh wait. Didn't they just update Logic and FCP X?

the different model available is the Mac Pro which has been completely ignored for the last 4 years.

Wrong.. :rolleyes:

These new iMacs are a joke. I keep saying Apple is obsessed about limiting choice for consumers, but everytime they make a small incremental change like this that is detrimental for users, the hoards of apple fanboys *always* overlook the criticisms.

Kinda like how whiners *always* find something to whine about.

What could have POSSIBLY been so wrong with letting users upgrade the ram on their own? Would an iMac not be as good if it had that ability? Would an iPhone be worse off if the battery was replaceable? Would the original iPod not be the same if it didn't force the use of iTunes?

If you put a good enough battery in the phone to begin with, then the battery won't need to be replaced. 8gb to 16gb ram is actually a pretty decent amount. If it was 2 or 4gb, I could understand the whining. And you certainly don't need 32gb of user upgradeable ram just to write whiney posts on internet forums all day.
It's 2012, and all kinds of consumer and pro hardware alike is far less user serviceable than it used to be. This isn't just an Apple thing, and you'll see a lot more of this yet.

What the hell is so wrong with CHOICE? These normal optional things make *zero* of a difference for the complete noobs, it doesnt make things any more complicated.

You have choice. Go buy something else.
 

Ice Dragon

macrumors 6502a
Jun 16, 2009
989
20
Yeah I'm disappointed in the lack of upgradeable RAM on the 21.5" iMac. Hopefully with the Haswell upgrade, they make fusion standard with the option for Flash storage.
 

wikus

macrumors 68000
Jun 1, 2011
1,795
2
Planet earth.
Agreed. Oh wait. Didn't they just update Logic and FCP X?



Wrong.. :rolleyes:



Kinda like how whiners *always* find something to whine about.



If you put a good enough battery in the phone to begin with, then the battery won't need to be replaced. 8gb to 16gb ram is actually a pretty decent amount. If it was 2 or 4gb, I could understand the whining. And you certainly don't need 32gb of user upgradeable ram just to write whiney posts on internet forums all day.
It's 2012, and all kinds of consumer and pro hardware alike is far less user serviceable than it used to be. This isn't just an Apple thing, and you'll see a lot more of this yet.



You have choice. Go buy something else.

You've completely downplayed every valid criticism I've made against the lack of options in the new iMacs as if only to protect Apple's image.

What is wrong with you? And yes, the Mac Pro definitely has been ignored for the past 4 years.

Do the forum a favour and delete your account if you have nothing constructive to add to the topic.
 

jedimed

macrumors newbie
Nov 16, 2011
2
0
Wrong move

I can understand why my iPad isn't upgradeable (although I'd still love a micro-SD slot and an iOS that knew what to do with it). Doing this to the 21.5" iMac (re: no RAM slots) is just horrific and I will have to recommend to my clients that they purchase the one with 16GB simply because we all know that the next iteration of OS X will require more RAM and what will you do when you can't upgrade??

However, if anyone ever tells you that Apple without Steve is different, think about what Tim wrought yesterday. It's all in a direct line from Steve's belief that computers are appliances.

I'll be ordering the 27" model (with RAM slots) and a Fusion drive. And you can be damn sure I'll be ordering AppleCare!

This sort of thinking is why nothing will change. You don't like what a company is doing, the direction they seem to be on. And what do you do? Buy the more expensive option, with more than one expensive add-on. Instead, let's vote with our dollars. Buy used, buy a Mini, buy....Windows? If the profits soar when these design decisions are made, who's to blame Apple for continuing to make them?
 

Xikum

macrumors 6502
Oct 19, 2011
281
1
You've completely downplayed every valid criticism I've made against the lack of options in the new iMacs as if only to protect Apple's image.

What is wrong with you? And yes, the Mac Pro definitely has been ignored for the past 4 years.

Do the forum a favour and delete your account if you have nothing constructive to add to the topic.

Agreed. The guy just completely ignores every negative point about the new iMac (which only the foolhardiest fanboy could do...) and overlooks them all; "you're a whiner!", "you dont need to upgrade it yourself!", "dont buy it then!".

Non-user upgradable RAM, no CD drive on a desktop, slower 5,400rpm HDDs (albeit there is new fusion drives...for extra money); these are NOT GOOD THINGS. STOP DEFENDING THEM.

But what more can you expect from a guy who has an Apple badge with a Steve Jobs face in it for an avatar?
 
Last edited:

Rend It

macrumors 6502
Oct 27, 2003
266
5
United States
This sort of thinking is why nothing will change. You don't like what a company is doing, the direction they seem to be on. And what do you do? Buy the more expensive option, with more than one expensive add-on. Instead, let's vote with our dollars. Buy used, buy a Mini, buy....Windows? If the profits soar when these design decisions are made, who's to blame Apple for continuing to make them?

While it would certainly be great if Apple had lower price points, or more flexible upgrade options, the reality of the situation is that Apple makes their own hardware for their own software. They can make any hardware they like, and make it is non-user-serviceable as they see fit.

Now, if someone pays more to have the option to upgrade, then you shouldn't fault them for that. Buying used or refurbished may not necessarily be wise for the consumer, either. Because while they may be able to upgrade RAM themselves in the older models 3-4 years down the line, the old models may be unable to run the current OS at that time.

It's a mixed bag, and while I agree that making a desktop über-thin is largely unnecessary, there are other aspects to the new iMacs that are compelling and not available in older iMacs, such as USB 3.0, calibrated displays with less glare, and the Fusion drive option.
 

keyseomen

macrumors newbie
Oct 25, 2012
1
0
Thats too bad, personally not an issue for me as the entry level comes with 8GB, but I'm sure it'll bother a lot of people..
 

anthonyp01

macrumors member
Oct 19, 2012
39
1
United Kingdom
This is what's wrong with Apple products these days - their consumers. They don't know what the **** they're buying as long as it has an Apple logo. If you don't believe me then watch the infamous "This is the new NEW iPhone 4" video.

"Oh, it's thinner - let me have it!"

Never mind it's crippled to the bone. No user-upgradeable RAM? 5400rpm HDD?! No CD/DVD-drive? SD-card slot placed on the back? Is it even serviceable?

I guess you Americans are lucky. I live in Denmark and a base 27" iMac costs around $2700. Max it out and it's closer to $6-7000.

The 21.5" iMac used to be a bang-for-the-buck all-in-one computer. That's why I went with the 21.5" Mid 2011 in the first place and upgraded the RAM myself.

Is the iMac still favorable to other all-in one computers? It's not that crystal clear anymore. Given the price increase and the heavy hardware crippling the 21" iMac is less desirable in my optics. But hey, if you don't know what you're buying then no trouble right? As long as it's thinner...and it's named Apple.

The blind follow the blind.

Your right to some degree, I don't buy all Apple products just for the sake of it. I have Nexus 7, Galaxy S3 etc. But I buy Imac's for the way they look. As a designer I like my **** to look good. I also have a 3 grand PC, but on my work desk I like to have a Mac because they look good and most of all I love OSX.
 

kazmac

macrumors G4
Mar 24, 2010
10,087
8,627
Any place but here or there....
hmm..

slower HD in the 21" or pay for a more expensive unknown drive?

and no ram upgrades?

Nope, my 2010 is indeed my last iMac.

I hope the mini will still be kicking cores all over the place in 2014, because if I still need a computer at that point, that is the Mac I will get. By then this fusion drive won't be so new.
 

CoolSpot

macrumors regular
Jan 6, 2004
167
226
For people like you who don't earn their living from the tools they use, as in, a computer, you are in no position to criticize them for their complaints.

If you earn a living with the tools that you use, then you should be able to properly select the right tool for the job. If you are using gobs and gobs of RAM and have very demanding computing needs, then the imac may not be the correct tool for the job. Apple makes the very capable Mac Pro which may be a better fit for your application.
 

Idefix

macrumors 6502a
Jul 10, 2012
523
72
I think Apple has the technological equivalent of a body perception disorder. I can understand a thinner iPad and iPhone (to a point) since you are holding them in your hand. But, a thinner desktop makes no sense.

I love that thought! Apple is anorexic!

That does fit in with the rest of the fashionable world, sadly enough...
 

cgk.emu

macrumors 6502
May 16, 2012
449
1
I love that thought! Apple is anorexic!

That does fit in with the rest of the fashionable world, sadly enough...

I'm glad you said "fashionable world", which most definitely doesn't include the U.S. What's wrong with the iMac losing some weight? Maybe it could serve as motivation to our obese nation :rolleyes:
 

rhoydotp

macrumors 6502
Sep 28, 2006
467
75
i agree with most of the complaints here (ie. non-upgradable RAM, no optical drive) and maybe partly for the 7.2k RPM against 5.4k RPM drives. However, you can't complain about this without really understanding technology. RPM alone doesn't tell the whole story, yes, of course 7.2k is faster than 5.4k but honestly, how many of you can push that much of IOPS from the existing 7.2k? Not everyone. If you know you are going to saturate the disk, this is not the machine for you.

Another point to consider: This is seems to be a clear indication that Apple will be moving their next set of machines to have Fusion Drive which by the way is not a new technology all in itself. Lots of big storage companies have started using this for over a year and more so this year (HDS, NetApp, etc).

anyway, I'm still on the fence with this on whether to wait or get the Mini.
 

Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,790
393
I would never notice the thinness of a new iMac. When I use my desktop I'm looking straight on, and I don't move it around, so what difference does it make if it is thinner and lighter?
Allow me to play devil's advocate (my jury's still out on my verdict on the new design): A desk pushed up against a wall may be the most common environment that iMacs end up in, but it's not the only one. Many will be situated in places where they need to look good from all angles. They will sit on reception desks. Tons of them will fill big open office spaces at ad agencies, web design agencies and such. Such offices are usually big on interior decoration, and a small forest of iMacs with wafer thin screens will be quite the sight to behold.

I think Apple has the technological equivalent of a body perception disorder. I can understand a thinner iPad and iPhone (to a point) since you are holding them in your hand. But, a thinner desktop makes no sense.
They certainly have developed dysmorphia, but if it's any consolation, they're very close to the brick wall now. The only way the next iMac could be thinner would be if the bulge at the back got a little flatter. That's hardly going to wow anyone. The iPhone has reached a point where some complain that it's so thin and light, it feels toyish. Apple has moved from 30-pin to Lightning, SIM cards are now nano-sized, the camera optics dictate a minimum thickness. On rMBPs they've ditched optical and started with soldered RAM and proprietary SSDs, there's really nowhere to go from there. Battery technology is unlikely to see any big breakthroughs in the near future, and since Apple has already gone from removable batteries to semi-removable batteries to glued-in batteries on MBPs, the only possible next step is shaving off some battery life, which will not be received well.
We are very close to a point where Apple will no longer be able to play the "ZOMG it's so THIN!" card, they'll have to find a new focus and I for one can't wait...
 
Last edited:

Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,790
393
For people like you who don't earn their living from the tools they use, as in, a computer, you are in no position to criticize them for their complaints.
Apple has never, ever marketed the iMac as a professional tool. The fact that it's gotten more capable doesn't change that. It was always an all-in-one for mainstream consumer use and it was always the most progressive model when it comes to ditching legacy tech. If anyone chooses to use it professionally anyway, it's their call, but they're not in a position to criticize Apple for 'de-professionalizing' a model that was never designed for that customer category in the first place.

On a personal note, a 21.5" iMac with "loads and loads of RAM" sounds like the weirdest choice of professional workhorse ever. That's like a trucking company buying a Mini Cooper and lamenting the fact that you can't fit it with the 650 bhp Cummins diesel engine it needs to pull an 80,000 lbs trailer.
 

macleod199

macrumors 6502
Mar 10, 2007
290
6
Professionals dont have much choice in a different model entirely. Like I said, Apple doesnt give a damn about professionals, the different model available is the Mac Pro which has been completely ignored for the last 4 years.

These new iMacs are a joke. I keep saying Apple is obsessed about limiting choice for consumers, but everytime they make a small incremental change like this that is detrimental for users, the hoards of apple fanboys *always* overlook the criticisms.

What could have POSSIBLY been so wrong with letting users upgrade the ram on their own? Would an iMac not be as good if it had that ability? Would an iPhone be worse off if the battery was replaceable? Would the original iPod not be the same if it didn't force the use of iTunes?

What the hell is so wrong with CHOICE? These normal optional things make *zero* of a difference for the complete noobs, it doesnt make things any more complicated.

I'm not saying I agree with the removal of all these things, but adding access ports (especially ones that are precision made) is expensive, and complicates the internal design in a bunch of ways. You can disagree with the obsession with thin as the main design driver, but given that assumption, the other decisions aren't illogical.
 

Fuzzy.Dunlop

macrumors regular
Jan 12, 2010
211
0
London
I love Apple for what they brought to the market but this was the refresh where they jumped the shark

The sooner they go back to what they're good at instead of being a multi billion dollar behemoth the better
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
5,796
2,386
Los Angeles, CA
The fact is, Apple is pushing very aggressively towards the future THEY think computing devices are headed. A lot of people disagree with their opinions, and that's fine. But all I'm saying is, as a guy who used only Windows machines for about a decade and is happily on the Mac side of the fence today? I don't find Apple's decisions wind up being nearly as problematic as people like to say they are.

Good for you, though you are in the majority it seems. I stopped being an iMac customer years ago when I came to the realization that I'd have used my 20" Early 2006 (Core Duo) iMac for another two more years if I had easier access to its hard drive in order to replace it. Alas, those days died off when the pre-iSight iMac G5s did back in 2005. The fact of the matter is that Macs cost money, and preventing upgrades beyond limitations of the hardware (like the Santa Rosa chipset not being able to take more than 4GB of RAM on laptops, for example) substantially shortens the time we have with them. I don't care how savvy you are or aren't, that's problematic. If you pre-stuff a 2012 21.5" iMac or a 15" retina MacBook Pro with the 16GB maximum, that's great, because you have likely maxed out the system chipset's ram capacity limit. But for those that don't opt to do that at the time of purchase, when a version of OS X comes along that requires 16GB, you're left in the cold, and slowly but surely, that will have you left out of updates for things like Safari, Adobe Flash Player, and iTunes. Sleekness is great. Sleekness is part of what made me a customer of the iPad, iPod touch, and non-retina MacBook Pro. But functionality is the other part of that equation, and dropping that isn't going to make people happy unless they're ignorant of what they're losing.

Statements starting with "Nobody needs ..." are universally going to be incorrect. But that's not quite what Apple has said (or done).

Uh...it's absolutely what they've done. Apple does pay attention to customer feedback, but nowhere near as much as they also don't.

1. If you buy a new Apple Macbook Pro today, you still have the choice to go with a non-Retina display version, and you'll get one with both an optical drive still in it AND ability to upgrade its RAM and hard drive, just by unscrewing the back cover. Apple could easily have discontinued all of those products and said, "Sorry... retina is the future and it's all anyone will ever want from us." They didn't, which says something.

First, you're wrong. Apple did state that retina is the future of the MacBook Pro line and, more or less, they did imply that it is going to be the future standard of a "Pro" notebook. Secondly, You are either naive or uninformed if you think that the non-retina MacBook Pro is going to last beyond this current revision. They will, far more likely than not, get discontinued in favor of the next rev of retina MacBook Pros which will be the only MacBook Pros. It's obvious that to ease the transition away from things like the optical drive, Ethernet on laptops, and FireWire 800, Apple is keeping this around and warning customers that need them that if they really need those features, the time to snag them is now. Yes, it is both a little unusual and very kind of them to do this for us; I myself, benefited greatly from them doing that. But take a look at them; no option for 16GB of RAM (when it is clearly not a hardware limitation), no option for a Fusion Drive, no PowerNap support, even for models custom configured with SSDs instead of hard drives, and no retina screens when it's not like the panels themselves would be incompatible with the non-retina MacBook Pro bezel. This is a lame-duck design. Discontinued computer walking. Given a stay of execution to help those of us reluctant to follow Apple's transition this time ease into this transition more gradually.

2. Nothing in OS X prevents recognizing or using optical drives, on ANY of the systems they sell! Apple merely feels the optical drive is old tech, on the way out, and they'd rather not build it into the sides of their new machines. People who still want one can buy an inexpensive external USB drive to plug in, and they're all set to go. Why is that so horrible?

On a laptop, I find it much more inexcusable given that carrying more things is inconvenient; though many more would disagree and take the opposite stance. It's inconvenient, as the cost of the machine stays the same (if not increases) and we're given one less feature. For a desktop, I see it as a blessing in disguise as Apple's internal optical drives were slow and failure-prone and I have no problem with an Apple desktop provided I can attach an external USB optical drive with a traditional 5.25" Tray-load form factor as that is (a) faster than Apple's internal drives were, (b) way more reliable than Apple's internal drives were, and (c) way cheaper to replace if they go bad than Apple's internal drives were. But that does add clutter to a desktop that is all about minimalism. Also, it's a desktop, there should be no limitations on desktops. No one needs a thinner desktop. Certainly not one that thin.

3. As Apple increases the default amount of RAM in their systems, the ability to upgrade it later becomes less of an issue. I'm not saying there's no benefit to being able to easily swap defective RAM yourself. But when's the last time you had defective RAM in your Mac? I know it happens, but I've owned something like 10-11 different Macs since around 2000, plus many I take care of at work each day, and I don't recall a single bad RAM chip - save for an incompatible one, out of the box, I bought for a 2006 Mac Pro one time as an upgrade. (It wasn't "bad" but didn't work right with the existing FB-DIMMs in the machine.)

Defective RAM, while rare, has always been a cheap fix. On either a MacBook Air, a retina MacBook Pro, or now a 21.5" iMac, it is now insanely expensive. In the case of the former two, that's a logic board replacement, and if you're out of AppleCare, that effectively totals your computer. So, while unlikely, if I have RAM die on my $3500 retina 15" MacBook Pro that I use for everything, I'm hosed.

In the meantime, I don't at all agree with your assertion that Apple bumping up the minimum supplied RAM lessens the blow of unupgradable RAM. The whole point of having RAM be upgradable to begin with is to increase the RAM later on to accomodate software that, long after the time of purchase, requires it. Most of the lower-end Mac models capable of running Lion shipped with less than the 2GB required to do so. Without the ability to upgrade to that, said systems are stuck at Snow Leopard, if not less, and thusly some of those machines are SOL when it comes to upgrading basic software like Safari, iTunes, and Adobe Flash Player. That is a problem, because Macs cost money. Without the ability to easily upgrade these Macs, more money will be spent and that is a problem.

slower HD in the 21" or pay for a more expensive unknown drive?

and no ram upgrades?

Nope, my 2010 is indeed my last iMac.

I hope the mini will still be kicking cores all over the place in 2014, because if I still need a computer at that point, that is the Mac I will get. By then this fusion drive won't be so new.

While I hate the lack of upgradable RAM as much as the next guy, simply maxing a 21.5" iMac out to 16GB at the time of purchase, while unfortunately costing more, sort of solves that problem as it's not like that machine will later be able to handle 32GB. Also, there's nothing unknown about the Fusion drive; it's a traditional hard drive in the hard drive bay and a 128GB mSATA SSD blade in the mSATA slot and software/firmware built into the builds of Mountain Lion that ship with those computers that tell Mountain Lion to treat it as one drive but to manage what is stored on that drive to optimize for speed. This is not a new feature. Technically the Mid 2011 iMacs had an Intel chipset capable of employing that feature, but it was never taken advantage of. The "Fusion Drive" isn't a special drive. It's two drives and software (in Mountain Lion) and firmware (on the logic board) guiding them to work together.

As for ditching iMacs, I agree, as desktops they are stupid; but sadly they're no more stupid than the Airs, the Retinas, or any of Apple's other non-upgradable machines.

I love Apple for what they brought to the market but this was the refresh where they jumped the shark

The sooner they go back to what they're good at instead of being a multi billion dollar behemoth the better

I'm sorry, but if you're of the mindset that THIS is where they jumped the shark, then you weren't paying attention. iMacs have long sucked for these reasons...pretty much ever since it got an iSight/FaceTime HD camera it has sucked in these regards.
 

nateo200

macrumors 68030
Feb 4, 2009
2,906
42
Upstate NY
Allow me to play devil's advocate (my jury's still out on my verdict on the new design): A desk pushed up against a wall may be the most common environment that iMacs end up in, but it's not the only one. Many will be situated in places where they need to look good from all angles. They will sit on reception desks. Tons of them will fill big open office spaces at ad agencies, web design agencies and such. Such offices are usually big on interior decoration, and a small forest of iMacs with wafer thin screens will be quite the sight to behold.


They certainly have developed dysmorphia, but if it's any consolation, they're very close to the brick wall now. The only way the next iMac could be thinner would be if the bulge at the back got a little flatter. That's hardly going to wow anyone. The iPhone has reached a point where some complain that it's so thin and light, it feels toyish. Apple has moved from 30-pin to Lightning, SIM cards are now nano-sized, the camera optics dictate a minimum thickness. On rMBPs they've ditched optical and started with soldered RAM and proprietary SSDs, there's really nowhere to go from there. Battery technology is unlikely to see any big breakthroughs in the near future, and since Apple has already gone from removable batteries to semi-removable batteries to glued-in batteries on MBPs, the only possible next step is shaving off some battery life, which will not be received well.
We are very close to a point where Apple will no longer be able to play the "ZOMG it's so THIN!" card, they'll have to find a new focus and I for one can't wait...

Yeah I've been thinking about this for a while...dont know how much thinner they can go and I hope to God they don't take that line as a challenge :O I can't stand how everything is glued/soddered in...that way they can gouge you at the beginning...ugh...my next MBP would be a 15" Retina or even a 13" but the 13" needs a quad core. My iPhone 4 is like a tasty little wafer and its awkward to hold on to without a case...only time its "naked" is when I want to admire the design because it is pretty cool.

I would never notice the thinness of a new iMac. When I use my desktop I'm looking straight on, and I don't move it around, so what difference does it make if it is thinner and lighter?

I think Apple has the technological equivalent of a body perception disorder. I can understand a thinner iPad and iPhone (to a point) since you are holding them in your hand. But, a thinner desktop makes no sense.

And while I think getting rid of the optical drive is great for laptops (I almost never use discs on my laptop), but I use my optical drive quite often on my iMac, sometimes sharing with my MBA when I do need it. Seems unnecessary to take it off the iMac just to make it thin.
Excellent post...The removal of the optical drive is really a bad sign...IMO it should ship with a USB drive standard. Its like Apple is seeing everything anamorphically stretched...yeah thats whats causing their body perception issues LOL.

Agreed. Oh wait. Didn't they just update Logic and FCP X?



Wrong.. :rolleyes:



Kinda like how whiners *always* find something to whine about.



If you put a good enough battery in the phone to begin with, then the battery won't need to be replaced. 8gb to 16gb ram is actually a pretty decent amount. If it was 2 or 4gb, I could understand the whining. And you certainly don't need 32gb of user upgradeable ram just to write whiney posts on internet forums all day.
It's 2012, and all kinds of consumer and pro hardware alike is far less user serviceable than it used to be. This isn't just an Apple thing, and you'll see a lot more of this yet.

You have choice. Go buy something else.

Wow you seriously ignored the crap out of all of the very valid issues present...Mac Pro has been ignored pretty badly...it doesn't even have Thunderbolt or USB 3.0...So what if they updated FCP X...alas I won't continue your a troll or at least have Border Line Troll personality disorder secondary to Apple fanboyism. Your criticism of valid complaints is akin to a doctor responding to a bone/blood/skin cancer patient on their death bed asking for more than ibuprofen for pain. Everyone has different level of needs and while you might use your iMac to send emails some peoples computers are what they use to bring dinner home.

Apple has never, ever marketed the iMac as a professional tool. The fact that it's gotten more capable doesn't change that. It was always an all-in-one for mainstream consumer use and it was always the most progressive model when it comes to ditching legacy tech. If anyone chooses to use it professionally anyway, it's their call, but they're not in a position to criticize Apple for 'de-professionalizing' a model that was never designed for that customer category in the first place.

On a personal note, a 21.5" iMac with "loads and loads of RAM" sounds like the weirdest choice of professional workhorse ever. That's like a trucking company buying a Mini Cooper and lamenting the fact that you can't fit it with the 650 bhp Cummins diesel engine it needs to pull an 80,000 lbs trailer.

Apple doesn't need to market the iMac as a professional tool. Its one of Apples desktops which means that its expected to do everything that a Windows machine can do at a similar price line! Don't act like we are asking an iPad to handle editing 4K video or something stupid like that. Meanwhile the Mac Pro continues to sit untouched...Its basically stuck in 2010 without Thunderbolt, USB 3.0, etc...of course you can throw cards in to compensate but then again when your dropping $5k on a tower that should be included..so right now Apple really doesn't have the strong desktop I'm looking for...

Also your comment about the 21.5" iMac is not really that great of a point....its the whole BIGGER IS BETTER!!! If I want to master a film I should ideally have a computer the size of a small SUV then right?! WRONG we are not in the early days of computers where they were as big as warehouses. Screen size and performance should not be directly correlated. I want a 12 core Apple desktop to fly through video projects quicker...I'm an idiot because I should have a 72" iMac right? Pft. I would give up screen size for performance ANY DAY! I might be able to get over this if Apples Mac Mini had a discrete Graphics card that could make it the beast I and other video editors NEED to get stuff done...
 
Last edited:

thekev

macrumors 604
Aug 5, 2010
7,005
3,343
Allow me to play devil's advocate (my jury's still out on my verdict on the new design): A desk pushed up against a wall may be the most common environment that iMacs end up in, but it's not the only one. Many will be situated in places where they need to look good from all angles. They will sit on reception desks. Tons of them will fill big open office spaces at ad agencies, web design agencies and such. Such offices are usually big on interior decoration, and a small forest of iMacs with wafer thin screens will be quite the sight to behold.

The problem with this statement is I don't think such a design update will push these offices over the edge on purchases. I would hope that they don't pick up noisy fans in exchange for a thin profile. There are other super thin all in one designs. It's just that they don't typically shove that amount of electronics behind the display.


Professionals dont have much choice in a different model entirely. Like I said, Apple doesnt give a damn about professionals, the different model available is the Mac Pro which has been completely ignored for the last 4 years.

These new iMacs are a joke. I keep saying Apple is obsessed about limiting choice for consumers, but everytime they make a small incremental change like this that is detrimental for users, the hoards of apple fanboys *always* overlook the criticisms.

What could have POSSIBLY been so wrong with letting users upgrade the ram on their own? Would an iMac not be as good if it had that ability? Would an iPhone be worse off if the battery was replaceable? Would the original iPod not be the same if it didn't force the use of iTunes?

What the hell is so wrong with CHOICE? These normal optional things make *zero* of a difference for the complete noobs, it doesnt make things any more complicated.

It seems like a lot of people on here have a slightly skewed vision of the "average user", especially when they need to look at the average user or potential user for a given product line. A lot of people have mostly basic needs, but may have more demanding tasks that part of the time. Email and facebook doesn't require its own dedicated space. This is part of the reason why notebooks and smartphones are so popular. They have unrestricted placement. You don't need to dedicate any amount of permanent space to them. They can make the imac slimmer, but it still takes roughly the same amount of effective space in a house, office, apartment, etc while remaining stationary. At this point the advantages are trending toward a large display and not much else. I also hate how Apple allows things to run so hot in favor of thin form factors.
 
Last edited:

mrsir2009

macrumors 604
Sep 17, 2009
7,505
156
Melbourne, Australia
Would an iPhone be worse off if the battery was replaceable?

Yes. Firstly, a back cover that you could take off would take up more space than a non-removable one, due to the fact that there has to be latches protruding into the phone that hold it on. Secondly, under the back cover and under the removable battery there would need to be another layer of plastic or metal so that the logic board is not exposed when you flip the back cover off. Thirdly, the removable back cover that would be needed to have a removable battery would diminish the build quality of the phone. It would no longer be unibody, so it would be more flimsy and creaky in hand - Whatsmore, if you remove and replace the back cover on a phone enough times the little plastic latches that hold it in wear out, so the cover literally falls off at the drop of a hat. Losing your phone's back cover is not fun.
 

chrisdee

macrumors member
Jun 6, 2008
78
1
What about phasing out the 21" and introduce an 32" next time ?
More space to put more and better hardware inside.
 

Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,790
393
Also your comment about the 21.5" iMac is not really that great of a point....its the whole BIGGER IS BETTER!!! If I want to master a film I should ideally have a computer the size of a small SUV then right?! WRONG we are not in the early days of computers where they were as big as warehouses. Screen size and performance should not be directly correlated. I want a 12 core Apple desktop to fly through video projects quicker...I'm an idiot because I should have a 72" iMac right? Pft. I would give up screen size for performance ANY DAY! I might be able to get over this if Apples Mac Mini had a discrete Graphics card that could make it the beast I and other video editors NEED to get stuff done...
Editing movies is one of the few jobs I wouldn't mind doing on a small screen, but that's just one out many things that creative professionals do. Take music software, like Propellerhead Reason 6.5. Do you know how incredibly grating and time consuming it is to work with its giant instruments & FX rack, dozens of sequencer tracks and mixer channels on a small screen? You spend more time scrolling, resizing, zooming, toggling, expanding & collapsing than you do making actual music. I feel the same about Adobe CS; having to tuck away all context-sensitive tool panels in order to preserve a decent workspace for the images, webpages, Flash animations etc is about as pleasant as sandpapering one's scrotum. Some people think I'm weird because I think one 1920x1200 screen or above (MBP 17" to iMac 27") is enough, they insist on multiple monitors.

Also, in this case we're talking about desktops. I can understand pros who sacrifice screen space for portability but when you have a desktop machine that isn't going anywhere anyway, why go small? Cramped desk? Stiff neck? The additional cost that you earn back in no time anyway?
 

Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,790
393
Professionals dont have much choice in a different model entirely. Like I said, Apple doesnt give a damn about professionals, the different model available is the Mac Pro which has been completely ignored for the last 4 years.
They're addressing the issue next year:

Thanks for your email. Our Pro customers like you are really important to us. Although we didn’t have a chance to talk about a new Mac Pro at today’s event, don’t worry as we’re working on something really great for later next year. We also updated the current model today.

We’ve been continuing to update Final Cut Pro X with revolutionary pro features like industry leading multi-cam support and we just updated Aperture with incredible new image adjustment features.

We also announced a MacBook Pro with a Retina Display that is a great solution for many pros.

Tim


What Cook means by "really great" remains to be seen, since the guy is a propaganda hyperbole machine of North Korean caliber. He could be referring to a .00000001% speed bump for all we know, or a "Cube 2".

What could have POSSIBLY been so wrong with letting users upgrade the ram on their own?
Nothing, but most users don't, just like most users never remove the battery on a phone or laptop, and Apple's philosophy about stuff like that is to prioritize form factor and weight. For those who don't agree with this philosophy there are countless other brands out there (if iMac 27" / Mac Pro / Mac Mini are the wrong models for your needs).

What the hell is so wrong with CHOICE? These normal optional things make *zero* of a difference for the complete noobs, it doesnt make things any more complicated.
Nothing. What's wrong is to stick with Apple if choice is important to you. Apple doesn't do choice. No computer manufacturer has fewer models and fewer options for each model. Customizing a Dell machine online is like filling out a census form, they usually have more CPU options than Apple has CPU/RAM/storage options combined. Apple has been like that since Steve returned in '97 and threw out most of the model range. This should be the least news worthy newsflash ever. When the original iPhone was released, some friends of mine say "Nah, too big, I'll wait until they expand the model range with stuff like an iPhone 'nano'!" to which my response was "good luck with that". 5 years later, the range of 'choice' on the iPhone front amounts to 1) black 2) white 3) old.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.