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Old Nov 7, 2012, 04:49 AM   #126
palpatine
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Originally Posted by d123 View Post
LOL

Samsung? You do realise that Samsung has nothing to do with the Nexus 7? As in, it is not a Samsung product.

Looking at the number of posts in this thread (and the innumerable and tedious soundalike threads added every 5 minutes or so), I think we should ask Admin to provide an Android or even just Nexus 7 section for all the Android/Nexus 7 owners who insist on posting about it every 5 minutes.

If they had their own section, perhaps they would be less inclined to want to post the same old thing over and over, in a section supposedly about the Apple iPad.
In a thread titled "Nexus 7 experience really poor compared to mini" people keep posting about the Nexus, and that bothers you? You might want to try another thread, then, that talks exclusively about Apple products and avoids any discussion of (what some people see as) superior alternatives. You'll also want to avoid watching the Apple Keynote for the iPad Mini, because Phil Schiller talked about it too.

Anyhow, good point about the company behind the Nexus 7. The issue here raises an interesting point about Android -- how do companies maintain their brand identity when they build with Android? Windows had this problem too, and one thing to Apple's credit is that no matter what you think about any device, the design is impeccable, distinctive, and I think unparalleled. In terms of industrial design, they are probably one of the most innovative companies around, hands down.

They've got the body right. With better componentry, they could have knocked this product launch out of the park, and none of us would even bring up any of the Android devices, because they wouldn't have been seen as competition. But, Apple didn't bring their A-game, so we have threads like this speaking the "truth" as we see it. Hopefully, Phil is reading these forums and seeing that some of his most avid product fans (how many Apple devices do I have? I've lost count) can't even bring themselves to purchase the iPad Mini, because something like the N7 is just that impressive.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 05:08 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by palpatine View Post
In a thread titled "Nexus 7 experience really poor compared to mini" people keep posting about the Nexus, and that bothers you?
Words written on the internet makes it hard to show when something is tongue in cheek (perhaps I should have used a few smilies ).

I find it weird that so many Nexus owners feel the need to post on an Apple forum, but does it bother me? No, not really, I am more amused by it than bothered.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 05:33 AM   #128
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Words written on the internet makes it hard to show when something is tongue in cheek (perhaps I should have used a few smilies ).

I find it weird that so many Nexus owners feel the need to post on an Apple forum, but does it bother me? No, not really, I am more amused by it than bothered.


Well, you raise a good point. Why am I bothering to post here?

I think I addressed it here or in another thread, but I think I can sum it up by saying that we express and define our identities through our consumption preferences, and we are not only financially invested in the products, but we spend most of our waking hours with them, so we want to have the best experience possible. Gadgets matter a lot, and I am willing to pay a premium price for a premium product. I am even willing to make compromises by living within the restrictive Appleverse of Apple products, Apple apps, and even (legally for tablet products in the US) the Apple OS. But, in exchange, I expect Apple to treat us well. I think none of us want to feel like isheep being fleeced by Apple.

Yet, that is exactly how I feel when they release anemic products that lack leading edge technology. The iPod Touch has been a year or so behind the leading edge for a few iterations now. The iPad 4 didn't get a new body to match the rest of the lineup (and maybe provide less weight). The iPad Mini carries screen tech from 2007 and innards from 2011 or so. The only product I see that is impressive is the iPhone 5. I cannot bear to see people posting threads like this that (in my opinion) pretend that the Mini is superior (despite so much evidence to the contrary). Tell the emperor he hasn't got any clothes on!

I think we owe it to ourselves (and perhaps even to Apple) to stand up and say what we think about this. The Mini is not what it could have been (technologically) or should have been. At this point, Android's operating system is the most innovative one out there (I think the inclusion of multiple users this time around was big). Their products (the N7 and N10) are much more advanced in several respects. I want to keep purchasing products that I enjoy from Apple, but it is headed in a very bad direction. Emails to Phil probably won't have much impact, but discussing what exactly I find appealing about other products, and what exactly I see lacking in the Mini might (wishful thinking, perhaps) influence someone at Apple to bring their A-game to the next Apple announcement.

[EDIT:] It looks like we have been consigned to the back rooms of the forums, where no one will read what I just wrote. The mods deleted a bunch of posts the other day as well (I think they were all on topic, but who knows, because now it is all gone). More wasted time. More tilting at windmills.

OK. I am done. Off to work now. I've got to stop bothering with these forums

Last edited by palpatine; Nov 7, 2012 at 05:46 AM.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 06:00 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Awakener View Post
Plus, a lot of security and privacy issues surround Android and Google, this being just one of the latest:

"Google's data-collecting habits drawing more scrutiny"

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-bl...-more-scrutiny
Man I really get tired of people posting this crap, it's how Google makes its money. (Did I use the correct smiley ?) There are tightwads out there that are afraid to buy anything whith money, so they whore themselves out.

Just do like I do, I don't use ANY Google services. Not even for search.

My question for all the Android users. How well does News Stand and iBooks (the interactive ones) work on Android ? What about AirPlay ? How easy is it to print from an Android device ?
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 06:15 AM   #130
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Nice stereotype, but a million of these are sold each day, so I am thinking there are not that many computer engineers out there. I don't know if you have ever used Android, but it is amazingly simple. In some ways it is even easier to use than the iPad. As I recall, I couldn't even use my iPad until I had downloaded iTunes and plugged the thing into my computer. The Nexus 7 worked right out of the box.
Of course I was being funny, although it's in part true.

I have had android devices for 3 years, iOS is just simpler and better optimized. The menus are more clear and seem less "everloaded", besides it's nices to have a grey/white environment than a black one.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 06:17 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by MrWillie View Post
There are tightwads out there that are afraid to buy anything whith money, so they whore themselves out.
I think that in general this is an unfair characterization, many people chose an android product not just because its cheaper but rather its the best product fitting their needs.

If you don't want to use google services and its products, then that's your option, but you cannot say every android or google user is someone who's willing to whore themselves out in the name of price.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 06:30 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by MrWillie View Post
There are tightwads out there that are afraid to buy anything whith money, so they whore themselves out.
Yap, because everyone that buys an Android is because he can afford other things, isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillie View Post
My question for all the Android users. How well does News Stand and iBooks (the interactive ones) work on Android ? What about AirPlay ? How easy is it to print from an Android device ?

I don't know, Apple has not developed them for Android so people has to use alternatives like Google Magazines, Kobo, Kindle mobi8 books, DLNA or Google Cloud Print.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 07:06 AM   #133
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Last Friday, after checking out the iPad mini in store, I went home with a Nexus 7 (32GB). Since I didn't own any Apple or Goggle product before [still using a dumb phone], I had no preference for OS. I went along with the Nexus because of the better screen quality (tested this with several PDFs I am going to read on the devices) and because the Nexus cost less than half of what I would have to pay for an iPad Mini with 32GB and GPS (I don't need the cellular, only the GPS) - 250Euro vs. 560 Euro.
After having used the Nexus over the weekend, I think it is a very nice device but for one major flaw, that will make me return the device today: The 16:9 aspect ratio by itself is okay, but when holding the device in landscape mode you get much less real estate. First, there are the top and softkey bars of the OS, that take away space. Then, when using Chrome, there are the tabs and the URL bar taking away space. So what is left to show the actual website is closer to 21:9 (roughly 1280*620). Also, many free apps use a banner ad, that also takes away premium vertical space.
If you could move the OS bars to the left and right in landscape mode (or hide them like in video apps), I believe this tablet would work nicely. But as it stands now, it is not really usable for me.
Unfortunately, so is the iPad mini with its display. Thus, I'll have to wait either for an Android 4:3 tablet in this size or an iPad mini retina...
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 07:30 AM   #134
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Nexus is better than the mini simply because of the mini's horrid screen resolution. Pixel density makes a big difference when you're using a device for reading text.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 07:57 AM   #135
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I think most of us post here because we enjoy to debate regardless if you are a diehard IOS or Android fan.

Someone arguing about how much better Apple is to Android THEN writing they don't understand why Android users come he is amusing to me. We all know its the same reason you come here. People that truly don't care are the majority of members here that don't come to the alternative section.

There are iOS sections on Android forums like Android Central that are just like this.

Personally I don't care what people use but I enjoy debating why I feel my choice is better.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 08:03 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by MrWillie View Post
There are tightwads out there that are afraid to buy anything whith money, so they whore themselves out.
I don't understand this mentality. Do you think Apple users are superior because they buy more expensive products? No wonder Apple prices their products so high. I bet if the iPad Mini was $500, you would still justify it and claim that it should be this expensive because of the 'ecosystem'.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 08:17 AM   #137
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Smile

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Originally Posted by klover View Post
Everyone's "experience" is relative, there is no universal measurement.

For instance, using my stock N7 I can run the utorrent app, download some TV shows, and watch them using the VLC app. That's not an experience possible with the mini.

Conversely, I prefer the pay-version Scrabble app on the mini vs. the ads-based version on the N7.

Each has its benefits to me.
I totally agree, it is not a matter of which is better, it is a matter of opinion. Myself, I life the N7, I like the innovation at Google over Apple, and I like the specs on paper, and that it mirrored in the experience (I am a desktop gamer). But I like things about the mini also, for example, the "it just works" experience on iOS, the ease of updating, and the build quality is apparently better (the feel to the device). The N7 wouldn't feel as premium, it feels good, but not as good.

And with the thread authors problems, I have not encountered any such problem, maybe check at the xda devs forum, or start a thread there.

And by no means am I trolling
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 08:39 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by palpatine View Post


Well, you raise a good point. Why am I bothering to post here?

I think I addressed it here or in another thread, but I think I can sum it up by saying that we express and define our identities through our consumption preferences, and we are not only financially invested in the products, but we spend most of our waking hours with them, so we want to have the best experience possible. Gadgets matter a lot, and I am willing to pay a premium price for a premium product. I am even willing to make compromises by living within the restrictive Appleverse of Apple products, Apple apps, and even (legally for tablet products in the US) the Apple OS. But, in exchange, I expect Apple to treat us well. I think none of us want to feel like isheep being fleeced by Apple.

Yet, that is exactly how I feel when they release anemic products that lack leading edge technology. The iPod Touch has been a year or so behind the leading edge for a few iterations now. The iPad 4 didn't get a new body to match the rest of the lineup (and maybe provide less weight). The iPad Mini carries screen tech from 2007 and innards from 2011 or so. The only product I see that is impressive is the iPhone 5. I cannot bear to see people posting threads like this that (in my opinion) pretend that the Mini is superior (despite so much evidence to the contrary). Tell the emperor he hasn't got any clothes on!

I think we owe it to ourselves (and perhaps even to Apple) to stand up and say what we think about this. The Mini is not what it could have been (technologically) or should have been. At this point, Android's operating system is the most innovative one out there (I think the inclusion of multiple users this time around was big). Their products (the N7 and N10) are much more advanced in several respects. I want to keep purchasing products that I enjoy from Apple, but it is headed in a very bad direction. Emails to Phil probably won't have much impact, but discussing what exactly I find appealing about other products, and what exactly I see lacking in the Mini might (wishful thinking, perhaps) influence someone at Apple to bring their A-game to the next Apple announcement.

[EDIT:] It looks like we have been consigned to the back rooms of the forums, where no one will read what I just wrote. The mods deleted a bunch of posts the other day as well (I think they were all on topic, but who knows, because now it is all gone). More wasted time. More tilting at windmills.

OK. I am done. Off to work now. I've got to stop bothering with these forums
I couldn't agree more. I really wanted to love the Mini. I've been hanging out in the iPad forum ever since there were rumors ones would be coming out.

But I was so dissapointed in the Mini as a product, that I ended up going in a different direction to my first Android device.

Like you, I'm absolutely fine paying a premium for a product/experience that i feel is superior. But I just didn't get that with the Mini. I felt like i'd be paying a premium for a compromised device. This isn't like the iPad 1 where it was a brand new segment, there are other viable competitors out there.

I feel like Apple is getting to the point where they treat their customer base like a big ATM machine. They can come out every 6-12 months and cash no matter what they roll out.

I never thought I'd entertain the option of non-Apple 7 inch device when I heard the Mini was coming....yet here I am with a brand new Nexus 7. I would hope softer than expected sales or concerned opinions from customers who traditionally buy Apple would carry some weight. I'm not an Apple basher by any means. Heck, I've bought 7 Apple products the last 2 years. But they just didn't win my business this time.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:02 PM   #139
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I agree with what you've said, and I didn't mean to imply (if I did) that Apple was bad (and/or worse than Google), just that everyone collects and tries to make money (directly or indirectly) from data provided by customers. To me, it's the price paid for the convenience of the Internet and mobile communication.
This is a pretty broad brush. The ad networks (and Google is one) live entirely on the idea of selling access to a set of users. They are selling access to us. You can spin it and call it "subsidizing a good device/services", but neither way is really wrong. They are opposite sides of the same coin.

However, many companies live on the idea of selling a product still. They may try to figure out how to maximize the number of products they sell, but they still live and die on the product itself. They aren't nearly as invested in "selling you" as much as the ad networks are. Apple pays for their operations through hardware and software sales. iAds mostly seem a half-hearted attempt at not letting ad revenue leave the platform without Apple getting at least a cut of it. There just isn't the same drive to enable 3rd parties access to the user base in the form of user data. In fact, 3rd parties are annoyed at Apple at not wanting to share as much data as they want from Apple users.

The location data issue with the cache in this context falls under a security bug with privacy ramifications. It isn't even the same class of issue as someone actively harvesting location data to sell more valuable ads, which the ad networks are doing.

That said, there are enough folks plugged into the ad networks now, that it doesn't really matter what any one company does. You will get data mined in the end by someone else instead.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 02:53 PM   #140
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Nexus is better than the mini simply because of the mini's horrid screen resolution. Pixel density makes a big difference when you're using a device for reading text.
True, but you're forgetting:

- double the RAM
- quad core and faster processor
- more storage

All of this for less $$$
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 03:55 PM   #141
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This is a pretty broad brush. The ad networks (and Google is one) live entirely on the idea of selling access to a set of users. They are selling access to us. You can spin it and call it "subsidizing a good device/services", but neither way is really wrong. They are opposite sides of the same coin.

However, many companies live on the idea of selling a product still. They may try to figure out how to maximize the number of products they sell, but they still live and die on the product itself.

...
I agree with your points, but I do feel that Apple - who is now firmly in the "selling a product" category - is aware of the fact that these types of things - phones, tablets, music players - are ultimately going to become commodities, and I think they're planning on monetizing their information significantly more as time goes on. They might more and more sell access to our information, or they might more and more use that information to get us to buy from them, but the information will be used.

As much as Google uses it? Likely not, at least not in the foreseeable future. But it will become used far more, and I also think companies like Google and Amazon will start to be able to get more profit from their devices as well, once they get people hooked on them.

Parity is on the way.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 05:33 PM   #142
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LOL

Samsung? You do realise that Samsung has nothing to do with the Nexus 7? As in, it is not a Samsung product.

Looking at the number of posts in this thread (and the innumerable and tedious soundalike threads added every 5 minutes or so), I think we should ask Admin to provide an Android or even just Nexus 7 section for all the Android/Nexus 7 owners who insist on posting about it every 5 minutes.

If they had their own section, perhaps they would be less inclined to want to post the same old thing over and over, in a section supposedly about the Apple iPad.
I am not Ray Charles, I can easily see ASUS on the back of my Nexus 7. You didn't understand my point.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 07:07 PM   #143
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If they had their own section, perhaps they would be less inclined to want to post the same old thing over and over, in a section supposedly about the Apple iPad.
That's a great idea!!

Maybe they should call the section "Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices" or something like that.

----------

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I am not Ray Charles, I can easily see ASUS on the back of my Nexus 7. You didn't understand my point.
Ray Charles could feel the engraved "ASUS". You know, because of the soft, grippy, comfortable "cheap plastic" back. So much worse than cold, slippery, hard aluminum.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 08:29 PM   #144
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Clearly not. That's funny to see people like you trying to put Google and Apple in the same basket and ignoring the fact that the Google business model is RAPING your privacy.
Unless someone is breaking into your house and forcing you to use Google products against your will I don't understand your rape claims. Do you know what rape is?
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 08:45 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Aegelward View Post
Nexus 7 vs iPad Mini facts

Estimated returns of the ipad mini in it's lifetime (5 years) - 3-5%
Estimated returns of the Google Nexus 7 in it's lifetime (5 years) - 75%
Is 5 years really the lifetime of a tablet?

As for estimating the 5 year return rate for 2 devices released this year.....
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:01 PM   #146
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Don't be fooled by the people telling you the Nexus 7 is as good and save the money.
Let me see if I can summarise your post.

The Nexus 7 is fine and did everything I wanted it to except except I downloaded a DLNA app and I couldn't work out how to use it therefore the Nexus is a terrible device and I hate it.

Any other issues I have with the device are most likely due to me not giving it a chance and trying to use it like it's iOS.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 11:10 PM   #147
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Is 5 years really the lifetime of a tablet?

As for estimating the 5 year return rate for 2 devices released this year.....
According to Apple it is now 6 months....
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 12:25 AM   #148
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Nexus is better than the mini simply because of the mini's horrid screen resolution. Pixel density makes a big difference when you're using a device for reading text.
No it doesn't, not on a 7 inch screen. You must have terrible eyesight.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:06 AM   #149
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No it doesn't, not on a 7 inch screen. You must have terrible eyesight.
If he have terrible eyesight he wouldnt complaint about the mini...
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:17 AM   #150
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No it doesn't, not on a 7 inch screen. You must have terrible eyesight.
Wait, answer this. Apple said that retina was better because the distance from which you would hold the iPad, ie about reading distance was close enough to see pixles and not a sharp image. And a smaller screen would be, be default, that you would hold it even closer due to the smaller text, all things being equal. Therefore, if Apples marketing spin on the need for retina was correct and not just a can of crap, then a smaller screen, held closer to the user would require a much higher resolution screen than even the normal iPad....

And yet, somehow, NOW its perfectly fine? So which is right, you need retina in a larger screen held further way, or you do not need it in a smaller screen held closer?

Oh and next year when the retina mini is released, and everyone trades up and buys that, and Apple raves about how the text is sharper and clearer and how much better it is...and all the threads about how its "retina or nothing" as they did about the iPad 3 and MBP retina, then what of the statements that retina is not needed in a small tablet like the mini? Because you know, a brighter screen, with nice colors and tons of reflection just highlights in a brighter way how bad it is...the reflection is a bonus for all the MBP and previous gen iMac owners out there; because you know the reflection out in the sunlight might actually make your mini screen look better since you can't see it.

Really, why can't owners of the mini and defenders of the Apple crown just admit, that a better display would be great, that the current display is okay, but no where near as good as the Nexus nor the Kindle Fire HD and Apple pulled a fast one by rushing this device to market with the full plan to release a retina one next spring (just my guess) to double their mini sales to all the lemingings who ran out to buy the current one?

Really, why can't the blind Apple fans see what Apple has started doing with these device releases and upgrades over the past 2 to 3 years, it is so obvious.
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