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Old Nov 1, 2012, 07:20 PM   #226
steve119
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2nd November and still no solid release dates
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 06:11 AM   #227
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Does anyone think the 21.5" models can allow DIY SSD upgrades? I feel like buying one without the Fusion Drive and just throwing in a 256GB SSD.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 11:28 PM   #228
ctdonath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krravi View Post
Sure. Welcome to the future where we avoid 1080P content and are happy with sub standard 720P or nothing.
If that 1080 content is based on the original Japanese analog HDTV format, then heck yeah I'd be happy with sticking with an TV 2.

While optical storage has its benefits, it's being abandoned despite those benefits. People are willing to put up with some practical regression in favor for other benefits.

I had an amusing discussion with coworkers recently about music formats. The youngest group member (a recent PhD grad) said little but had a bemused/flabbergasted look, in the end admitting to having not purchased any audio/video content on physical media for the last 10 years.
Optical media is dead, it just hasn't stopped moving yet.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 11:45 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tardypooper View Post
Does anyone think the 21.5" models can allow DIY SSD upgrades? I feel like buying one without the Fusion Drive and just throwing in a 256GB SSD.
isn't something different about the glass and LCD screen this time around? i remember them saying that there is no gap or something of that nature, so i would think that the process is more difficult than previous generations to upgrade the hard drive
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 11:57 PM   #230
krravi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctdonath View Post
If that 1080 content is based on the original Japanese analog HDTV format, then heck yeah I'd be happy with sticking with an TV 2.

While optical storage has its benefits, it's being abandoned despite those benefits. People are willing to put up with some practical regression in favor for other benefits.

I had an amusing discussion with coworkers recently about music formats. The youngest group member (a recent PhD grad) said little but had a bemused/flabbergasted look, in the end admitting to having not purchased any audio/video content on physical media for the last 10 years.
Optical media is dead, it just hasn't stopped moving yet.
Media is not dead. Its going to take a form that none of the online content providers are ready and the infrastructure to deliver them doesn't exist.

4k Movies are on the horizon...

Try watching this in your beloved Mac..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd09U...hannel&list=UL

Choose the format as "original" the one *above* 1080P. Were you able to watch it uninterrupted?

Congrats on your internet connection and you are probably the top 5% of people with that sort of connection.

NHK Japan is already broadcasting 8k video. Will take two decades for us to catch on, but still.

Content is going to get larger and larger, resolutions will double or triple and Apple TV will be the lone soldier trumpeting its iTunes store and crappy videos.

Have fun watching pixelated video on a very beautiful machine.
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Last edited by krravi; Nov 4, 2012 at 12:05 AM.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 04:35 AM   #231
tardypooper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryonapple View Post
isn't something different about the glass and LCD screen this time around? i remember them saying that there is no gap or something of that nature, so i would think that the process is more difficult than previous generations to upgrade the hard drive
Well I wouldn't have high expectations on what it may turn out to be, honestly the things that are holding me back about this new line of iMacs are it's customisability.

However I was pretty relieved about it when a guy over at another discussion thread did clear up some doubts for me regarding the Fusion Drive. Apparently it's a software thing that can be undone for people who prefer to have the SSD drive and HDD placed on 2 separate volumes to manage (which I personally prefer)

Link here
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 04:58 PM   #232
toke lahti
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Then those people can upgrade the RAM to 16GB in the store. Case closed
This is of course what Apple wants. People need to buy RAM from Apple with much higher price than elsewhere and maybe they don't even need it.
Nobody knows how much 10.9, 10.10 or 10.11 (new OS every year means that within 3 years of appleCare your computer need to handle 3 generations of OS's) and new apps need.
Apple wins, customer loses, case closed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunyabinez View Post
I think Apple has the technological equivalent of a body perception disorder. I can understand a thinner iPad and iPhone (to a point) since you are holding them in your hand. But, a thinner desktop makes no sense.

And while I think getting rid of the optical drive is great for laptops (I almost never use discs on my laptop), but I use my optical drive quite often on my iMac, sometimes sharing with my MBA when I do need it. Seems unnecessary to take it off the iMac just to make it thin.
The only Apple's product that I'd like to weight less is full size ipad. That's the only device that should be as easy to hold on a hand as traditional book. When I carry my mbp in a backpack, it doesn't matter if it weights a pound less or more. Surprisingly my desk can also support a desktop computer of any weight without a sweat.

I also want dvd drive in my laptop as much as floppy drive. I have external bd-burner sized about a double cd jewel case.

But it seems pretty ironic to me that just few years ago Apple advertised iMac as "clutter free all-in-one" and compared it some Dell desktop with lots of cables. Now macs are becoming clutterfull none-in-ones, when you need external hdd's, maybe also external ssd, external odd and for the icing on the cake; external gpu!
Quote:
Originally Posted by burnout8488 View Post
The fusion drive will make the platter speed of the HDD pretty much irrelevant for the programs you use most often.
Still the speed isn't irrelevant when you are handling data that is not "used most often". They are also overcharging the SSD price; $250 for 128GB!? And if you don't pay this, you'll have slower computer than older iMacs, which they of course don't sell anymore. Nice extortion, once again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexusrule View Post
Actually iMac never accepted HD upgrades and only some generation had user replaceable ram, this is one that doesn't.
I've up/downgraded my father's imac's hdd several times (first bigger to store more tv programs, then smaller when big hdd went to NAS). Apple designed it really awkward to do, but if new imac's design follows new mbp's it might be practically impossible now.
This might also be the reason of new design after all. HP showed how all-in-one workstations should be done(Z1); everything is modular and easily changed and still fits your desktop. Apple lost this game, so they had to invent something new: lets make it thin, even if nobody benefits from it, but it looks nice! Talk about form over function...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtj View Post
For one thing, there IS already the possibility of doing 1080p video content with mechanisms other than reading it from optical discs.

Blu-Ray, like standard DVD movies that came before them, inherently suck because they're encrypted with keys the movie industry demands royalties be paid on by everyone building hardware or software to play them back. There are plenty of ways to encode a movie digitally. The industry just arbitrarily picked a format and locked it down so they could milk extra profits from it for as long as people kept using it.

I know most consumers don't care, as long as they can stick the disc in a drive and watch the movie. But Apple is really right, IMO. The format needs to go away, and digital distribution is probably the one viable thing right now that will push it towards obsolescence.
Digital downloads are much more worse milking than optical disks.
And why optical disk needs to go away? It's shiny and glances as hell, so Apple should really love it!
It's also very ecological when you don't need heat your basement with massive disk array to watch one movie and it's also the most cost effective; pressing a 50GB disk cost less than a buck. It's also easier to use than any Apple's product. Maybe because of these bd is the king of industry globally in all statistics.

All the signs show that Apple is perfecting their campaign to artificially shorten their products' lifespan. Every little physical break-up that used to mean easy repair now means throw away the whole thing:
You have faulty RAM and didn't get / out of appleCare? Go buy a new mac!
Didn't get Fusion Drive and now the mac is slow? Go buy a new mac!
Want to have bigger internal storage or the original broke? Go buy a new mac!

Suddenly it seems very logical why Apple hates so much headless expandable computer that would have reasonable horsepower and price.

It's also much more profitable to assembly desktops from laptop components, when 80% of your computer sales comes from laptops. Especially when computers are only 15% of your overall business...
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 05:20 PM   #233
spyguy10709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krravi View Post
Media is not dead. Its going to take a form that none of the online content providers are ready and the infrastructure to deliver them doesn't exist.

4k Movies are on the horizon...

Try watching this in your beloved Mac..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd09U...hannel&list=UL

Choose the format as "original" the one *above* 1080P. Were you able to watch it uninterrupted?

Congrats on your internet connection and you are probably the top 5% of people with that sort of connection.

NHK Japan is already broadcasting 8k video. Will take two decades for us to catch on, but still.

Content is going to get larger and larger, resolutions will double or triple and Apple TV will be the lone soldier trumpeting its iTunes store and crappy videos.

Have fun watching pixelated video on a very beautiful machine.
4K movies ARE on the NEAR horizon, just as how DVD movies were on the near horizon for most in the late 90s. No one was asking for DVD quality on all of our content - the "internet pipes" if you will, of the DVD pressers and blank discs - were extremely expensive - just like a fast internet connection is today (Well, fast enough for SHD video that is)

On that 5K video, If the content was on a better host, sure I would (Youtube only lets down 1Mbit/Sec max). Most of New York City would, in fact, where the average residential connection is over 30MBit/sec. Living in NYC suburbs, I have FiOS and my internet is 75Mbit/sec - it's wickedly fast. For people in the right situations - HD streaming is the present. For most people, it's in the near future, as ISP speeds increase and price decreases.

True, NHK Japan is broadcasting 8K video (4K 3D that is). Just like they did 1080i in 1983...

If you think Apple TV, along with broadband, isn't going to get faster and better in the next few years, you're nuts. There were HD-Tapes made at one point (1983!!), but they died out because tapes sucked. There are HD and SHD discs- but those will die out, because they too will eventually suck in comparison to better formats (which is currently Solid state and online. Guess which is more convenient - not to mention cheaper)

All I'm trying to say is - TIME MARCHES ON. And the proof-of-concept tech won't work for everyone, but the underlying concept will.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 05:25 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by toke lahti View Post
But it seems pretty ironic to me that just few years ago Apple advertised iMac as "clutter free all-in-one" and compared it some Dell desktop with lots of cables. Now macs are becoming clutterfull none-in-ones, when you need external hdd's, maybe also external ssd, external odd and for the icing on the cake; external gpu!
I don't need an external HD, SSD, ODD, or GPU. I am the target market for the iMac. There are many of me out there. There are less of you out there that *need* those things. Period! Apple isn't stupid.

By reading your post and signature, it seems like you shouldn't even be using an Apple product. If anything, buy a Mac Pro and be happy with its expandability. An all-in-one CERTAINLY does not fit your needs, so why continue to complain about it?
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 05:33 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toke lahti View Post
This is of course what Apple wants. People need to buy RAM from Apple with much higher price than elsewhere and maybe they don't even need it.
Nobody knows how much 10.9, 10.10 or 10.11 (new OS every year means that within 3 years of appleCare your computer need to handle 3 generations of OS's) and new apps need.
Apple wins, customer loses, case closed.

The only Apple's product that I'd like to weight less is full size ipad. That's the only device that should be as easy to hold on a hand as traditional book. When I carry my mbp in a backpack, it doesn't matter if it weights a pound less or more. Surprisingly my desk can also support a desktop computer of any weight without a sweat.

I also want dvd drive in my laptop as much as floppy drive. I have external bd-burner sized about a double cd jewel case.

But it seems pretty ironic to me that just few years ago Apple advertised iMac as "clutter free all-in-one" and compared it some Dell desktop with lots of cables. Now macs are becoming clutterfull none-in-ones, when you need external hdd's, maybe also external ssd, external odd and for the icing on the cake; external gpu!

Still the speed isn't irrelevant when you are handling data that is not "used most often". They are also overcharging the SSD price; $250 for 128GB!? And if you don't pay this, you'll have slower computer than older iMacs, which they of course don't sell anymore. Nice extortion, once again!

I've up/downgraded my father's imac's hdd several times (first bigger to store more tv programs, then smaller when big hdd went to NAS). Apple designed it really awkward to do, but if new imac's design follows new mbp's it might be practically impossible now.
This might also be the reason of new design after all. HP showed how all-in-one workstations should be done(Z1); everything is modular and easily changed and still fits your desktop. Apple lost this game, so they had to invent something new: lets make it thin, even if nobody benefits from it, but it looks nice! Talk about form over function...

Digital downloads are much more worse milking than optical disks.
And why optical disk needs to go away? It's shiny and glances as hell, so Apple should really love it!
It's also very ecological when you don't need heat your basement with massive disk array to watch one movie and it's also the most cost effective; pressing a 50GB disk cost less than a buck. It's also easier to use than any Apple's product. Maybe because of these bd is the king of industry globally in all statistics.

All the signs show that Apple is perfecting their campaign to artificially shorten their products' lifespan. Every little physical break-up that used to mean easy repair now means throw away the whole thing:
You have faulty RAM and didn't get / out of appleCare? Go buy a new mac!
Didn't get Fusion Drive and now the mac is slow? Go buy a new mac!
Want to have bigger internal storage or the original broke? Go buy a new mac!

Suddenly it seems very logical why Apple hates so much headless expandable computer that would have reasonable horsepower and price.

It's also much more profitable to assembly desktops from laptop components, when 80% of your computer sales comes from laptops. Especially when computers are only 15% of your overall business...
You so don't get it. You're still thinking like someone in 2002. You make the comparison to the 1999 iMac, which in it's time was a "None in one" as you put it. People didn't want USB ports in 1999, they wanted their FLOPPY DRIVE. Just like you want your Optical Disc drive. It was SLOWER than the easily upgradeable PMG3 AIO - look it up. It was prettier, and smaller, yes - but it outsold it nearly 100 to 1. It changed computer history - the way we think of our computers. I agree that Apple charges too much for SSDs and RAM - but hey, they're a company, dude. (And PS - it's not slower than last gen - the 5400RPM disc is 2 platters, so it's actually just about if not FASTER than the old 4 platter drives...)

And ODD are ecological?? WTF are you spewing dude? To make a disc, you need extremely thin metal and plastic, as well as casing for the disc, paper for all the crap inside the casing, and then you need to SHIP it to the store, and most likely SHIP it again to wherever you're located.

I agree that Apple computers' upgradability sucks - but after the recent return to the closed-box they're slowly getting better actually. Just some backstory - the original Mac, and Powerbook's RAM and HDD weren't upgradable AT ALL. But as time allowed for it, and ram slots (powerbook) got smaller, they added them. I'm convinced that Apple is just waiting for smaller RAM, and then they'll put the slots back.

If pure upgradeability is more important than functionality (laptops) or design (desktops) maybe the Mac isn't for you..
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 05:36 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by spyguy10709 View Post
4K movies ARE on the NEAR horizon, just as how DVD movies were on the near horizon for most in the late 90s. No one was asking for DVD quality on all of our content - the "internet pipes" if you will, of the DVD pressers and blank discs - were extremely expensive - just like a fast internet connection is today (Well, fast enough for SHD video that is)

On that 5K video, If the content was on a better host, sure I would (Youtube only lets down 1Mbit/Sec max). Most of New York City would, in fact, where the average residential connection is over 30MBit/sec. Living in NYC suburbs, I have FiOS and my internet is 75Mbit/sec - it's wickedly fast. For people in the right situations - HD streaming is the present. For most people, it's in the near future, as ISP speeds increase and price decreases.

True, NHK Japan is broadcasting 8K video (4K 3D that is). Just like they did 1080i in 1983...

If you think Apple TV, along with broadband, isn't going to get faster and better in the next few years, you're nuts. There were HD-Tapes made at one point (1983!!), but they died out because tapes sucked. There are HD and SHD discs- but those will die out, because they too will eventually suck in comparison to better formats (which is currently Solid state and online. Guess which is more convenient - not to mention cheaper)

All I'm trying to say is - TIME MARCHES ON. And the proof-of-concept tech won't work for everyone, but the underlying concept will.
NHK Japan is not broadcasting 4k in 3D. Its broadcasting true 8k.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...-def-tv-365291

You seriously think the broadband across the globe will increase rapidly without having to pay an arm and leg for the service? Will every household be able to afford that service so the content providers can rely on it as a distribution medium?

Apple still doesn't offer its own software for download through iTunes. Because its huge. Example - Logic Studio.

We can all hope but there is no way online fibers are going to be effective at streaming the content of tomorrow.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 05:44 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by krravi View Post
NHK Japan is not broadcasting 4k in 3D. Its broadcasting true 8k.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...-def-tv-365291

You seriously think the broadband across the globe will increase rapidly without having to pay an arm and leg for the service? Will every household be able to afford that service so the content providers can rely on it as a distribution medium?

Apple still doesn't offer its own software for download through iTunes. Because its huge. Example - Logic Studio.

We can all hope but there is no way online fibers are going to be effective at streaming the content of tomorrow.
mmm actually they do. I can download all components of LS from the App Store.

They're not broadcasting that yet, it's still in development. They are streaming 8K pixel images, however, in 4K3D
And yes, yes I do. In 2006 I was paying I believe 60 dollars per month for a 6Mbit stream. Now, 5 or 6 years later, I'm paying 60 dollars per month for a 75Mbit stream. So yes, yes I do.

The online fibers of TODAY won't be able to for most people. But the online fibers of tomorrow will be able to without a doubt.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 06:53 PM   #238
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A lot of people (in fact most of them on this thread) are disappointed with the lack of upgrade options for the 21.5" models and yes, I'm one of them. I purchased the mid-2011 iMac 21.5" (the higher end model of the two) yesterday complete with applecare, knowing the new one is coming this month because I wanted to see how it fits my workflow for mobile development. I am still on the fence about whether I should stick to this one or upgrade to the refreshed model when it comes out. I know this may sound old-fashioned but I do use the optical drive for photography (my hobby) to burn discs and hand them out / for backup etc.

Although the form-factor of the new one is elegant and downright beautiful, it is not a huge concern for me as the iMac sits in my office at home and weight / sleekness is not a benefit for me. Plus, the current model is in itself quite beautiful. Before the iMac I had purchased the refreshed Core i7 Mac mini which has a 5,400 RPM HDD and I can honestly say that I have much better responsiveness from the 7,200 RPM HDD in the iMac. Since the HDD is not user-upgradable, this is a pretty big negative for me. For those that are trying to downplay the speed differences, trust me, there is a very discernible difference between the two.

As I said, I am on the fence about this.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 07:10 PM   #239
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I think that might be too cynical a view ....

Where do I begin here?

Ok, first ... there's not much "ecologically friendly" about optical discs. I've never seen a box of DVD or CD media that claimed they were made from recycled discs! The fact is, they get tossed in the trash ALL the time and the plastic discs with metallic layers sandwiched inside don't really biodegrade well. The "massive disk array" you refer to seems over the top, too. I currently have all my digital media stored on an HP Microserver NAS. It's a little, power efficient server that's about as tall as the old Apple G4 Cube computer, and a little longer and wider. You can put up to 4 SATA drives in hot-swap trays in the front of it (using the "Green" drives if you like for ever lower power consumption), and it's extremely quiet and efficient. I have 8TB of storage in mine right now, and that's MORE than enough for everything I'd want to keep in a personal media collection.

As for Apple purposely trying to obsolete things before their time? That's a valid but debatable viewpoint. I can't prove they're not, obviously, but it's just as tough to prove that's their objective. People screamed and moaned when Jobs declared the 3.5" floppy disk "dead" too and removed it from all the Macs when every PC was still using one. But hey, history proved he made the right decision there.

I think I've said before on here that I'm not necessarily a fan of all these new machines you can't user-service.... but again, it depends on a few things. I recently took an out of warranty Macbook Pro 13" in for a screen repair at a local Apple store and found out the entire top clamshell lid would be swapped with a new one, at a total cost of around $280. To me, that's really not so bad - considering it was turned around in 24 hours' time. You sure can't buy a NEW one for $280. You can't buy ANY new Mac or even iPad for that price. So saying, "Oh, it broke.... Now you have to buy a new one." is again, over the top and unrealistic.

If they keep the cost of repairs relatively reasonable/fair, then it's not such a big deal that you can't just open one up yourself to try to repair it. Most customers have no willingness or skill to do such things in the first place (even if our readership here is more techie than that).


Quote:
Originally Posted by toke lahti View Post
Digital downloads are much more worse milking than optical disks.
And why optical disk needs to go away? It's shiny and glances as hell, so Apple should really love it!
It's also very ecological when you don't need heat your basement with massive disk array to watch one movie and it's also the most cost effective; pressing a 50GB disk cost less than a buck. It's also easier to use than any Apple's product. Maybe because of these bd is the king of industry globally in all statistics.

All the signs show that Apple is perfecting their campaign to artificially shorten their products' lifespan. Every little physical break-up that used to mean easy repair now means throw away the whole thing:
You have faulty RAM and didn't get / out of appleCare? Go buy a new mac!
Didn't get Fusion Drive and now the mac is slow? Go buy a new mac!
Want to have bigger internal storage or the original broke? Go buy a new mac!

Suddenly it seems very logical why Apple hates so much headless expandable computer that would have reasonable horsepower and price.

It's also much more profitable to assembly desktops from laptop components, when 80% of your computer sales comes from laptops. Especially when computers are only 15% of your overall business...
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 09:48 PM   #240
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You can play "what ifs" with everything.

Fact is with 64-bit computing the ability to address 16 GB of RAM is significant. Even if future versions of OS X require more memory the speed hit isn't that significant if you upgrade your storage subsystem to SSD type speeds.

Apple doesn't clutter your life...YOU do. They didn't force you to dangle a bunch of drives off your computer. There's a reason why companies have storage arrays.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 06:02 PM   #241
toke lahti
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Originally Posted by spyguy10709 View Post
You so don't get it. You're still thinking like someone in 2002. You make the comparison to the 1999 iMac, which in it's time was a "None in one" as you put it. People didn't want USB ports in 1999, they wanted their FLOPPY DRIVE. Just like you want your Optical Disc drive. It was SLOWER than the easily upgradeable PMG3 AIO - look it up. It was prettier, and smaller, yes - but it outsold it nearly 100 to 1. It changed computer history - the way we think of our computers. I agree that Apple charges too much for SSDs and RAM - but hey, they're a company, dude. (And PS - it's not slower than last gen - the 5400RPM disc is 2 platters, so it's actually just about if not FASTER than the old 4 platter drives...)
Apple didn't change anything in the industry with original iMac. It had so tiny fraction of industry. Only few last years Apple has had so big piece of the pie that it really matters. Anyway Apple was last to adopt hdmi, so what did that revolutionaize? Would macs be now better without it?
And PPS. Desktops with 3.5" 7200 RPM are much faster than 2.5" 5400 RPM. No matter how many platters there are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyguy10709 View Post
And ODD are ecological?? WTF are you spewing dude? To make a disc, you need extremely thin metal and plastic, as well as casing for the disc, paper for all the crap inside the casing, and then you need to SHIP it to the store, and most likely SHIP it again to wherever you're located.
More than half of computer's carbon footprint comes from manufacturing and NAS use more energy for streaming one movie from it than pressing an optical disc of the same movie. You could press 1000 optical discs with computer's carbon footprint. And by making computer non-expandable and non-repairable Apple has made mac's carbon footprint many times bigger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyguy10709 View Post
If pure upgradeability is more important than functionality (laptops) or design (desktops) maybe the Mac isn't for you..
I know that I'm trapped because I like OsX. Maybe it is finally time for me to build hackintosh. I just don't like the idea of some update breaking up the whole system. And for years, I've enjoyed more using the computer, than building them. I also don't have enough time to tinkering and OsX's support (drivers) for hardware is really flaky for me. I hope there will be more TB acceptance in the industry and so on... Everything would be so much easier if Apple licensed OsX to other manufacturers.

I'm a hopeless dreamer, but knowing about technology and understanding what Apple could do with they power in the industry just makes me sad.
I think it's great that Apple tries to simplify using computers to those who benefit from it, but at the same time they could give more options to advanced users. But Apple isn't Apple Computer anymore and they like more making money than as great computers as possible.

When about 3% of their revenue comes from desktops and probably a lot less of their profits, desktop computers are any longer only a PR thing for Apple. And that's at least what new iMac really looks like; form so much over the function, that they might be at the end of the road for that.

After HP's Z1 I just can't not to think what iMac could be. They could build different versions: none-in-one (no expandability or repairability like new iMac), all-in-one (like previous iMacs + some more) and choose-what-in-one. The last one would be totally modular where user could add bricks behind the screen (maybe through miniPCI?) which could be GPU, HDD, SDD, ODD, RAM slots, more ports and whatnot!
You want sleek? Well, add nothing to default built.
Want blu-ray? Just clip it in!
Want 3.5" hdd? Just clip it in!
Want 4G modem that works outside US? Just clip it in!
Want second (or descreet) GPU with 2 hdmi's and sdi (all both in and out)? Just clip it in!
Want 10G ethernet + SAS + fw800 + 2 TB more? Just clip it in!
Want dvb-s2/t2/c2 tuner with CA-slot? Just clip it in!

Who needs unibody desktop? Watch your computer from behind a lot? Drop it a lot from the desk?
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Last edited by toke lahti; Nov 6, 2012 at 06:22 PM.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 06:21 PM   #242
toke lahti
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Originally Posted by burnout8488 View Post
If anything, buy a Mac Pro and be happy with its expandability.
I'd guess nobody, that doesn't have too much money or need MP now for make a living, would be happy to buy present model. Price is too high and tach badly outdated. No good price-power ratio GPU, no usb3, no TB, no bd.
And new model promised "late next year".

Now if there would be decently priced xMac with one desktop cpu (like i7), less than 2 year old powerful gpu, 3 pci slots and 3 internal desktop size storage slots, which one could be optionally odd, that would be the ultimate overall headless desktop for almost everybody and right between mini and MP.
But seems to be that will never come from Apple, just don't know why they hate this kind of configuration so much? Was G4 powermac so bad choice for Apple to make?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Apple doesn't clutter your life...YOU do. They didn't force you to dangle a bunch of drives off your computer.
They take all features out of all-in-one, say that is clutter free and you are forced to have clutter your desk with external boxes and cables for every feature you need. What's the point making the clutter free none-in-one anyway? For those who use it as decoration?
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 04:28 AM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsir2009 View Post
Yes. Firstly, a back cover that you could take off would take up more space than a non-removable one, due to the fact that there has to be latches protruding into the phone that hold it on. Secondly, under the back cover and under the removable battery there would need to be another layer of plastic or metal so that the logic board is not exposed when you flip the back cover off. Thirdly, the removable back cover that would be needed to have a removable battery would diminish the build quality of the phone. It would no longer be unibody, so it would be more flimsy and creaky in hand - Whatsmore, if you remove and replace the back cover on a phone enough times the little plastic latches that hold it in wear out, so the cover literally falls off at the drop of a hat. Losing your phone's back cover is not fun.
There are several smartphones that prove just about all of this wrong by being more durable than the iPhone 4, 4S, and 5 and having longer battery life while still being comparably thin. A phone's battery goes through way more of a regular workout than the battery of any laptop, any iPod, and any iPad or other tablet. Most tend to go bad, hence "spare batteries" and "extended batteries" things that cell phone and non-iPhone smartphone users have long-since benefited from. The iPhone's battery may be amazing, but no phone's battery is THAT amazing. Also the solution to not wearing out the mechanisms on your phone's back cover is to not obsessively play with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiohed View Post
It's a shame they don't offer any SSD or Fusion Drive option for the base 21". That will mean that the cheapest config with the fusion drive will be at least $1750.
The base 21.5" has always been the runt of the iMac line. Never ever was worth buying, in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anuba View Post
It's really simple.

If Apple sees a lot of complaints combined with a dip in sales, they will reconsider. They brought back Firewire on MBP 13" after an avalanche of complaints, and upgrading RAM on Mac Mini is arguably easier than on any other computer on the market -- you just turn the bottom lid and open it like a big jar, without any tools, pop in some RAM and you're done. The previous model was Fort Knox.

If on the other hand the new iMac is a big hit and the complaints are no worse than normal, then the evolution of iMacs will continue along its current trajectory.
How is a machine that isn't even in the wild or available for pre-order a "hit"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrXiro View Post
It's like Kim Kardashian, Looks thin and sexy from the front and then suddenly BAM! Big Ol' Booty!

But hopefully iMac isn't Vapid like her.
If these new iMacs are anything like their 2005-2011 predecessors, then much like Kim Kardashian, it's not only vapid, but it's also crazy. Having seen the iMacs naked, I can attest that, probably like Kardashian (I wouldn't know for sure) you want to say away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krravi View Post
Sure. Welcome to the future where we avoid 1080P content and are happy with sub standard 720P or nothing. The future were we actually embrace our past.

----------

This new iMac I believe is Jony Ivey gone wild. From what we have read so far, I don't think anyone can really say NO to Jony as per Steve's biography. So Jony did the design and asked the hardware guys to fit their stuff in there. And this is the best the hardware guys can do. (A guess of course which seems very probable)

Need someone with common sense than design sense to balance the equation.

Who will that be at Apple?
To be fair, the iMac has ALWAYS been about form over function. This is nothing new, it's just a continuation of the trend that has been on-going since day one of iMac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtj View Post
For one thing, there IS already the possibility of doing 1080p video content with mechanisms other than reading it from optical discs.

Blu-Ray, like standard DVD movies that came before them, inherently suck because they're encrypted with keys the movie industry demands royalties be paid on by everyone building hardware or software to play them back. There are plenty of ways to encode a movie digitally. The industry just arbitrarily picked a format and locked it down so they could milk extra profits from it for as long as people kept using it.

I know most consumers don't care, as long as they can stick the disc in a drive and watch the movie. But Apple is really right, IMO. The format needs to go away, and digital distribution is probably the one viable thing right now that will push it towards obsolescence.

I mean ... consider the fact that NOBODY running a free, open-source operating system can legally watch a DVD movie using it, simply because the decoders out there all illegally decrypt the content (refused to pay the licensing fee on code they give away absolutely free in the first place!). You're literally breaking federal law every time you use Linux to watch a DVD movie you bought at the store! How stupid is that??
I would agree if (a) Internet were faster and (b) hard drive space were more plentiful. As it stands neither of these are true, so my shelf of Blu-Rays and DVDs is still more economical on my computer's resources than the supposed future of video distribution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlatlinerG View Post
With 8GB of RAM standard, even on the low end model, is this really an issue? The iMac is an all-in-one, designed for plug and play. Not designed to be an upgradable power house for gaming and the like. 8GB of RAM is waaaay more than the vast majority will ever use. And for those that want more, know they'll need it before they buy it and can upgrade then. Sure it's pricier to upgrade through Apple, but it isn't news that Apple stuff is pricey.
8GB of RAM is great for today. Certainly more than enough. But for those that intend to keep the machine until it becomes too expensive to be worth repairing, 8GB won't be sufficient forever. And given that this isn't a user-accessible upgrade, it is prudent to take care of that when the computer is purchased and not afterwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razeus View Post
I was going to buy, but with the 21.5 model coming with a 5400 rpm drive, it's a no sale. Even with Fusion Drive, it's still a 5400 rpm drive. There are 7200 rpm drives available Apple. I'd rather you just made it a 128GB SSD and let it be. I'll be sticking with my iMac mid 2010 for the foreseeable future. Hopefully they change their tune in 2013. 27" is way too big and certainly too expensive for my needs. If this continues in 2013, I'll move to Windows 8, along with the rest of my devices. If this is how they want to play it, then let's play the game.
A Fusion Drive, even with a 5400RPM 2.5" Hard drive as the hard drive component, is still faster than a lone 7200RPM hard drive. Jus' sayin'. Also, Apple's not telling you that you can't have an SSD, it's telling you that if you want a hard drive, you're limited to that capacity and RPM speeds. Would you have preferred them offering you a 21.5" iMac with a 7200RPM 2.5" 750GB drive instead?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tardypooper View Post
Does anyone think the 21.5" models can allow DIY SSD upgrades? I feel like buying one without the Fusion Drive and just throwing in a 256GB SSD.
Nope. It'll likely be just as annoying to perform any DIY upgrades as it was on the older models

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
You can play "what ifs" with everything.

Fact is with 64-bit computing the ability to address 16 GB of RAM is significant. Even if future versions of OS X require more memory the speed hit isn't that significant if you upgrade your storage subsystem to SSD type speeds.

Apple doesn't clutter your life...YOU do. They didn't force you to dangle a bunch of drives off your computer. There's a reason why companies have storage arrays.
I'm sorry, but the luxury of an internal optical drive or a second hard drive is a common one among desktops. Telling me that it's needless clutter and that it should be removed from my computer to save space is stupid when all that is preserved is the aesthetic beauty of the machine, which is worthless when compared to the functionality lost in the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toke lahti View Post
Apple didn't change anything in the industry with original iMac. It had so tiny fraction of industry. Only few last years Apple has had so big piece of the pie that it really matters. Anyway Apple was last to adopt hdmi, so what did that revolutionaize? Would macs be now better without it?
And PPS. Desktops with 3.5" 7200 RPM are much faster than 2.5" 5400 RPM. No matter how many platters there are.

More than half of computer's carbon footprint comes from manufacturing and NAS use more energy for streaming one movie from it than pressing an optical disc of the same movie. You could press 1000 optical discs with computer's carbon footprint. And by making computer non-expandable and non-repairable Apple has made mac's carbon footprint many times bigger.

I know that I'm trapped because I like OsX. Maybe it is finally time for me to build hackintosh. I just don't like the idea of some update breaking up the whole system. And for years, I've enjoyed more using the computer, than building them. I also don't have enough time to tinkering and OsX's support (drivers) for hardware is really flaky for me. I hope there will be more TB acceptance in the industry and so on... Everything would be so much easier if Apple licensed OsX to other manufacturers.

I'm a hopeless dreamer, but knowing about technology and understanding what Apple could do with they power in the industry just makes me sad.
I think it's great that Apple tries to simplify using computers to those who benefit from it, but at the same time they could give more options to advanced users. But Apple isn't Apple Computer anymore and they like more making money than as great computers as possible.

When about 3% of their revenue comes from desktops and probably a lot less of their profits, desktop computers are any longer only a PR thing for Apple. And that's at least what new iMac really looks like; form so much over the function, that they might be at the end of the road for that.

After HP's Z1 I just can't not to think what iMac could be. They could build different versions: none-in-one (no expandability or repairability like new iMac), all-in-one (like previous iMacs + some more) and choose-what-in-one. The last one would be totally modular where user could add bricks behind the screen (maybe through miniPCI?) which could be GPU, HDD, SDD, ODD, RAM slots, more ports and whatnot!
You want sleek? Well, add nothing to default built.
Want blu-ray? Just clip it in!
Want 3.5" hdd? Just clip it in!
Want 4G modem that works outside US? Just clip it in!
Want second (or descreet) GPU with 2 hdmi's and sdi (all both in and out)? Just clip it in!
Want 10G ethernet + SAS + fw800 + 2 TB more? Just clip it in!
Want dvb-s2/t2/c2 tuner with CA-slot? Just clip it in!

Who needs unibody desktop? Watch your computer from behind a lot? Drop it a lot from the desk?
Hackintoshes are rad. Personally, I am of the opinion that the non-retina Unibody MacBook Pro is the only truly practical Mac that Apple makes. After that presumably gets the axe next year in favor of the retina design taking over, I suppose it'll either be time to compromise and accept the retina design or Hackintoshing OR it'll be time to leave the platform altogether, which I don't want to do given all that I've invested in it over the last decade.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 05:53 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by The Phazer View Post
The 21.5 model seems to have been made considerably worse in many ways.

At least the 27 inch hasn't been ruined to the same extent it seems.
***** also HDD is 5400, what the ***********k this is total rip off, why they coudn;t put 7200 hdd so if you get base imac 21 2012, you pretty screwed up.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 03:19 PM   #245
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Desktop computer that has no upgradable RAM? That is a joke, and a cruel one
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 03:34 PM   #246
Ice Dragon
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I am obviously against the iMac not having user replaceable RAM though how is the 640M and 650M respectively for running the latest games? Certainly they are fine for running the display.
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 02:41 PM   #247
objc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damitssam View Post
who the hell needs 16 GB of ram. Jesus christ. Unless you are running video software, my 2 year old i7 with 8 GB ram can handle just about everything I throw at it.

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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:41 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by petsounds View Post
RAM slots on the iMac? Is this what Tim Cook meant when he said he had something great in store for Mac Pro users?
No.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:01 PM   #249
nicmart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearda View Post
I guess I'm one of the 17. Only 16 more to go...

I had 16G of RAM from Crucial waiting for my iMac the day I bought it. The 27" is too big for my desk and the extra RAM helps when testing VMs. No reason to pay Apple's insane prices for memory.
It's a semantic quibble, I know, but I would characterize Apple's RAM prices as "rapacious" rather than "insane." Opinions vary.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:20 PM   #250
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Apple to Mac users: RAM it

Apple's decision to prevent user upgrade of RAM on the 21.5-inch iMacs is form over function with a vengeance. I've cancelled my preorder of the faster 21.5 at B&H.

This will clobber schools, whose students often use Macs for photo and video editing, but cannot afford 27-inch Macs.
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