Wozniak: MS now more innovative then Apple

After viewing the entire video, I'd say that Woz was not definitively saying MS was more innovative but rather he was concerned that Apple was more focused on improving the current crop of products and not trying to bring out some new products that will wow us.

MS has been swinging for the fences lately and tbh, apple has not. The iPad, and iPhones are great but things are being changed incrementally.

Innovation is great. When it works and benefits the user.

Doesn't seem to be the case for Microsoft:

http://www.zdnet.com/what-not-to-buy-on-black-friday-windows-8-pcs-and-laptops-7000007557/

Aspasia said:

Innovation is great. When it works and benefits the user.

Doesn't seem to be the case for Microsoft:

http://www.zdnet.com/what-not-to-buy-on-black-friday-windows-8-pcs-and-laptops-7000007557/

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The risk of innovation is producing a product that fails. From what I've read and experienced. Win8 is a very good tablet/phone OS, but its really really poor on the desktop because of the metro UI.

While they're pushing some innovative designs on the mobile sector, I think they're pretty much closed minded in forcing users to live with a touch interface OS for the desktop

Aspasia said:

Innovation is great. When it works and benefits the user.

Doesn't seem to be the case for Microsoft:

http://www.zdnet.com/what-not-to-buy-on-black-friday-windows-8-pcs-and-laptops-7000007557/

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That article is either an obvious linkbaiting ploy, or the writer is a complete idiot. Every single thing he complains about, I can shoot down in 3 seconds.

like..

"Windows 8's Desktop looks much more like "Windows," but the interface still has only a fraction of Windows 7 Aero's functionality."

Wuh? It's literally 99% the same. The start button is gone, but you can still access the exact same things just by moving the mouse a smidge to the left, and a tiny bit down.

Metro apps aren't the best experience with a keyboard and mouse, but...get this...you don't have to use them. Ever. It's like griping about Angry Birds being on OSX brings down the entire user experience because it's meant to be used with touch.

maflynn said:

The risk of innovation is producing a product that fails. From what I've read and experienced. Win8 is a very good tablet/phone OS, but its really really poor on the desktop because of the metro UI.

While they're pushing some innovative designs on the mobile sector, I think they're pretty much closed minded in forcing users to live with a touch interface OS for the desktop

Click to expand...

I can see a patch coming out the future that for desktop/laptops it will default to the traditional set up. Meto UI is great for a touch interface but horrible for a mouse and keyboard set up.

The start screen in and of itself is fine for mouse and keyboards. The biggest complaint anyone should have with it is it's fullscreen, and the icons are a little large.

I don't see Microsoft releasing any update to bring back the old start menu. I would bet that there stance on it is if you like the classic start menu, continue to use Windows 7.

Windows Vista, Windows 7 and Windows 8 are all Windows build version 6.x. You aren't missing out on much by not going to Windows 8 other than all of the new Windows RT apps and the Windows store which can be used to purchase desktop apps as well.

Renzatic said:

The start screen in and of itself is fine for mouse and keyboards. The biggest complaint anyone should have with it is it's fullscreen, and the icons are a little large.

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You can sort of shrink the icons down by clicking on the minus in the lower right corner of the metro screen.

Renzatic said:

That article is either an obvious linkbaiting ploy, or the writer is a complete idiot. Every single thing he complains about, I can shoot down in 3 seconds.

like..

"Windows 8's Desktop looks much more like "Windows," but the interface still has only a fraction of Windows 7 Aero's functionality."

Wuh? It's literally 99% the same. The start button is gone, but you can still access the exact same things just by moving the mouse a smidge to the left, and a tiny bit down.

Metro apps aren't the best experience with a keyboard and mouse, but...get this...you don't have to use them. Ever. It's like griping about Angry Birds being on OSX brings down the entire user experience because it's meant to be used with touch.

Click to expand...

Do you have the OS installed on your own desktop? If so, what about the other issues the article raised? Such as software compatibility.

Aspasia said:

Do you have the OS installed on your own desktop? If so, what about the other issues the article raised? Such as software compatibility.

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I've been using Windows8 for the last few weeks, and honestly, this upgrade has caused far fewer application compatibility problems than the switch from Lion to Mountain Lion did (yes, as far as operating systems go, I swing both ways).

The quoted article is from a Linux user ... I would be much more impressed if it was actually from a Windows user that actually USES the operating system!

Windows 8 is just fine. The 'Modern UI' thing is like a combination of Launchpad and Dashboard on MacOSX, and I see it so rarely in my workflow that I could hardly care less. I don't miss the START menu at all.

Aspasia said:

Do you have the OS installed on your own desktop? If so, what about the other issues the article raised? Such as software compatibility.

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I haven't had any problems. It runs everything that ran on 7.

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VenusianSky said:

You can sort of shrink the icons down by clicking on the minus in the lower right corner of the metro screen.

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That puts you into edit/name mode. You can't actually click the individual icons when you're in that.

Though I think if you have a touchscreen, you can do a pinch to zoom them out a little bit.

flameproof said:

Online storage is hardly new.

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hmmmm

So you bleat on about innovation yet it appears you're incapable of understanding the innovation right before your eyes.

hint: iCloud is not about online storage it's a synchronization technology.

nuckinfutz said:

hint: iCloud is not about online storage it's a synchronization technology.

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Which in and of itself isn't a brand new thing. Dropbox has been doing that very thing for a couple years now at least.

There's a ton of things to like about Apple. iCloud? It isn't one of them. While I wouldn't say it's bad exactly, I wouldn't call it the greatest thing ever, either. I know tons of people here love hyping it up like it's the second coming, but what can you do with it beyond syncing documents amongst a few programs and backing up your iOS settings? In my opinion, Apple's attempt at oversimplifying the process ended up gutting everything that could've been good about it.

Right now, it feels more like Baby's First Dropbox than a proper, full featured service in its own right.

Renzatic said:

Which in and of itself isn't a brand new thing. Dropbox has been doing that very thing for a couple years now at least.

There's a ton of things to like about Apple. iCloud? It isn't one of them. While I wouldn't say it's bad exactly, I wouldn't call it the greatest thing ever, either. I know tons of people here love hyping it up like it's the second coming, but what can you do with it beyond syncing documents amongst a few programs and backing up your iOS settings? In my opinion, Apple's attempt at oversimplifying the process ended up gutting everything that could've been good about it.

Right now, it feels more like Baby's First Dropbox than a proper, full featured service in its own right.

Click to expand...

Dropbox is actually more simple. It syncs documents to their cloud and does limited versioning and delta. It's still primarily document based though. iCloud does that easily ..the difficult part is in the smaller bits of data that isn't a document. When iCloud syncs my iCloud tabs that's not a document it's syncing it's a really tiny piece of data that I rely on to be correctly sent/retrieved.

Now in iOS 6 my shortcuts are now in sync via iCloud. iTunes 11 is going to use iCloud for syncing playback markers and history. iCloud has got to be robust enough to sync large data effectively (Core Data stores, packages etc) down to the smallest single character change (such as modifying an incorrect digit in a phone number in contact)

That's a monumental undertaking. I like and use Dropbox like the next guy/gal but iCloud is as ambitious as they come and Apple's leveraged much of the future on removing the sync'd folder as the paradigm for easy synchronization.

Renzatic said:

I haven't had any problems. It runs everything that ran on 7.

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That puts you into edit/name mode. You can't actually click the individual icons when you're in that.

Though I think if you have a touchscreen, you can do a pinch to zoom them out a little bit.

Click to expand...

You are correct. That is why I said that you can "sort of" shrink them.
It is really just for naming groups of programs, which is basically the same concept of folders in the old Start menu.

flameproof said:

When it comes to synchronization nothing beats google.

Don't get me wrong, iCloud is probably OK, although I never used it. But I don't see the innovation in it as there's nothing new.

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The fact that you "perceive" iCloud to be simple is precisely why it is an amazing technology. It's low touch and frictionless yet behind the scenes it's as complex as anything that Apple has done.

Next up is Apple delivering Core Storage. In two OS revisions they've added full disc encryption, ad volume manager that has fueled Fusion Drive without things blowing up (remember they are still using HFS+ and no developer had to change their app).

Apple makes it look easy because they have talent. So much I find myself quibbling about the small stuff because expecting perfection with Apple actually feels acceptable.

It is disturbing that many here consider Woz an irrelevant person, without his contributions to the personal computer world, yes it was in the '70s and early 80's, there never be anything like it is nowadays. He was a hardware genius, and the kind that actually made great software things at his time, that isn't the case nowadays: there are not experts that can excel at both things, if so please name them.
Many of the new things are software based and there is the ambition and profit in mind that drives the motivation, during Woz days, it was about doing something useful for the benefit of many, surely he was pushed to his limits by Steve Jobs, but SJ could not have ever made what he made without Woz, do you believe that any other engineer out there was able to do what Woz did? Please name it?
Understand the history to put things in context.

Please stop bashing Woz, he built the Personal Computer from an idea, his idea, while SJ was busy getting high. He wasn't the money hungry type of guy and never will that's why he got out Apple when SJ started with his delusion of grandeur. Woz is a happy man that does what he really likes. If he's doing financially well he earned and deserve it and Apple isn't going to cut him loose...

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beg_ne said:

Woz is a joke, and a sellout. I would strongly suggest if Apple has any ties with him still, especially money related they cut him loose and let him realize what a leech he is.

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the most moronic comment I read so far...

I respect Woz's opinions. Doesn't make them at all important, but I feel he is one of the few honest guys who is just into great tech rather than saying things for money.

Of course Woz is right. When your back is up against the wall (like MS), then you have to react.

RSL said:

Of course Woz is right. When your back is up against the wall (like MS), then you have to react.

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Yet if you look at Patently Apple site, you see that Apple's patents are far cooler then anything Microsoft does. Even if you look at current selling products they are filled with innovations(MagSafe, AirPlay, AirDrop, super-thin chassis, retina displays, fusion drives).

They don't actually have a patent on retina displays, do they?

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roadbloc said:

I respect Woz's opinions. Doesn't make them at all important, but I feel he is one of the few honest guys who is just into great tech rather than saying things for money.

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That's what I like about him. He doesn't unquestionably love any one company. He's a fan of neat, cool stuff regardless of where it comes from.

smoledman said:

Yet if you look at Patently Apple site, you see that Apple's patents are far cooler then anything Microsoft does. Even if you look at current selling products they are filled with innovations(MagSafe, AirPlay, AirDrop, super-thin chassis, retina displays, fusion drives).

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And yet we see Microsoft coming out with some pretty impressive products. I love idea of a kids corner in the win8 phones. The smart cover with an integrated keyboard, etc. I'd rather have a smart cover with a keyboard then a super thin iMac that just sits on my desk and there's no reason to shave off the thickness

maflynn said:

And yet we see Microsoft coming out with some pretty impressive products. I love idea of a kids corner in the win8 phones. The smart cover with an integrated keyboard, etc. I'd rather have a smart cover with a keyboard then a super thin iMac that just sits on my desk and there's no reason to shave off the thickness

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iOS has a guest mode, but it's quite a kludge to enable. Also think about the new super-thin iMacs. Why not keep the old thickness but put discrete graphics in there? Nope, not real innovation!

Errrghkt, the new thin iMacs do have discrete graphics cards in them.