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Happybunny

macrumors 68000
Sep 9, 2010
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The difference this year was that Utd had RVP in their jersey whilst City kept Balotelli in theirs. RVP proved the magical difference...again.
That is so true RvP is that vital difference both for Man Utd and the Netherlands.
Not from any striker's boot, I can assure you. It's the best possible performance from a Suarez-less Liverpool I can imagine, though leaking two goals is a bit disappointing.

It's hard to say we "need" the points, because Liverpool are going nowhere this season, and I doubt Rogers really cares whether Liverpool qualifies for the Europa League or not. But I suppose our goal for the season should be the highest possible league finish. So... we needed the points.



I think the game was pretty close. It's probably a Manchester title again at any rate. Man City is still less disciplined as a unit, and the more and more we talk about United's weaknesses the more it sounds silly because they keep winning anyway. It seems that no amount of bad ownership up top or talent gaps in the squad can stop Fergie. RVP has been remarkably healthy so far as well.

I think I can say I was very surprised by this Liverpool win, with out a real striker, perhaps you are going to start a new tread?

But it does take the pressure off Rogers, mid table is not were Liverpool fans are used to seeing their team.

More news over the death of the Linesman. Today four more people arrested three youths of 16 and 17 and one man in his 50's believed to be a parent.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
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Sod off
More news over the death of the Linesman. Today four more people arrested three youths of 16 and 17 and one man in his 50's believed to be a parent.

I have heard that most (if not all) of the youths involved were of Moroccan origin. Is this figuring strongly in discussions of the event?
 

Confuzzzed

macrumors 68000
Aug 7, 2011
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Liverpool, UK
Where did your lot get three goals? QUOTE]

One was scored by the modern day Roberto Carlos, the other by rotund yet skilful ex-Chelsea striker and the third was an og brought on by a great cross from the captain of the England U21 team and outrageous run by an attacking Full England international midfielder. Does not sound too bad when you put it like that...
 

Happybunny

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I have heard that most (if not all) of the youths involved were of Moroccan origin. Is this figuring strongly in discussions of the event?
Only if you are a PVV (Gert Wilders supporter)
The problem with violence in the amateur football game in the Netherlands goes back at least 65 years. This is the first death on the football field but the problem is far deeper.
This is a problem which has been turned into a political football, no pun intended.

One thing is clear something has to be done about violence in the amateur game in the Netherlands football.

I do hope that this has been of some help, these links are only in Dutch.
I have the idea that the English speaking press are only interested in the race angle and not the under lying problem.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/21149184/__Extra_aandacht_Nieuw-Sloten__.html
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1016/Nederla...aat-eerder-positief-dan-negatief-bekend.dhtml
 
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Lord Blackadder

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Arsenal...oh dear. Pretty much a full-strength side too. Still, it's only a cup match, and the Gunners are still very much in the running for fourth. I do have to say though, if Arsenal finish outside the CL spots I expect that heads will roll.

What's worse than playing without Suarez? Playing with Gervinho.

Only if you are a PVV (Gert Wilders supporter)
The problem with violence in the amateur football game in the Netherlands goes back at least 65 years. This is the first death on the football field but the problem is far deeper.
This is a problem which has been turned into a political football, no pun intended.

One thing is clear something has to be done about violence in the amateur game in the Netherlands football.

I do hope that this has been of some help, these links are only in Dutch.
I have the idea that the English speaking press are only interested in the race angle and not the under lying problem.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/21149184/__Extra_aandacht_Nieuw-Sloten__.html
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1016/Nederla...aat-eerder-positief-dan-negatief-bekend.dhtml

Ah, how is Geert these days? He still looks like the villain from a James Bond film.... I assumed that the "immigrant" angle with the Moroccans was just a sideshow that the press were playing up to sell papers. Thanks for the links.
 

Jaffa Cake

macrumors Core
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Aug 1, 2004
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The City of Culture, Englandshire
Arsenal...oh dear. Pretty much a full-strength side too. Still, it's only a cup match, and the Gunners are still very much in the running for fourth. I do have to say though, if Arsenal finish outside the CL spots I expect that heads will roll.
Bantams 'Keeper Matt Duke is a consummate professional and an outstanding gentleman, and I'm rather chuffed for him and the other former Tigers who are currently with Bradford. :)
 

Happybunny

macrumors 68000
Sep 9, 2010
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Arsenal...oh dear. Pretty much a full-strength side too. Still, it's only a cup match, and the Gunners are still very much in the running for fourth. I do have to say though, if Arsenal finish outside the CL spots I expect that heads will roll.

What's worse than playing without Suarez? Playing with Gervinho.



Ah, how is Geert these days? He still looks like the villain from a James Bond film.... I assumed that the "immigrant" angle with the Moroccans was just a sideshow that the press were playing up to sell papers. Thanks for the links.
Sad to say Gert is still with us, his party was heavily defeated in the elections in September, but he remains a vocal heckler, he always knows whats wrong, but cannot think of a way to fix it:mad:

Just an up date on the major problems in Dutch amateur football.

Well the discussion about how to clean up Dutch amateur football has begun.

First off the back ground to this problem is far in history, this goes back well before the second world war. Violence both on and off the field has been tolerated for far to long. Amateur football has always had a special place in Dutch society, the amateur teams were set up via Regional, Religious, Political ties, the matches became far more than mere football games. My own father was arrested in 1934 at a match here in 's-Hertogenbosch for hitting another player, oh and by the way my father was a Doctor.

When pro football came to the Netherlands in the 1950's this was organized properly via FIFA/UEFA rules.

The sheer size of the amateur game in the Netherlands has been it's problem from the start. On any given weekend 32,000 games from a population of 16,000,000. The numbers of KNVB match officials was never enough to cover all these matches, so as stopgap solution it was decided that at the lower end of the youth game the home team would supply the linesmen, and even sometimes the referees. This was never seen as ideal but there was never enough manpower to rectify the problem, the KNVB could not spare enough time to train them, and these people were volunteers, and we all know there are never enough of those.

With all the resources going to the Top Class A, B and C matches, the games played in the lower classes suffered from a very poor standard of refereeing. It was a open joke about playing against the twelfth man. From my own past I played in a game in 1967, when there was a very bad off side decision given against us. The team got in a fight about it on the pitch, the linesman hit just about everybody with is flag baton. Somebody shouted call the police, and the linesman shouted back I'm already here.

Another aspect that has altered are the parents of the children, most are supportive and a few can be a bit fanatical, but this is nothing new. What is new are parents who see their children as a meal ticket to big time football clubs. Two years ago here in my home town an assistant trainer was attacked and put in hospital by such a parent, this happened off the pitch so only made the local news.

These are the first ideas to come out of the discussion.
The act of attacking somebody on the field of play, will from now on be an automatic criminal offense. Which can see you get a prison sentence of two years.
Every amateur team in the Netherlands is now committed to raising the standard of match officials.
The active coaching of both problem players and the parents is now the club's responsibility


I do hope that there are not to many mistakes, and that it is readable.
 
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daneoni

macrumors G4
Mar 24, 2006
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Arsenal...oh dear. Pretty much a full-strength side too. Still, it's only a cup match, and the Gunners are still very much in the running for fourth. I do have to say though, if Arsenal finish outside the CL spots I expect that heads will roll.

What's worse than playing without Suarez? Playing with Gervinho.

I'm secretly hoping for this outcome. Not because i want Wenger to leave but because i want the Board to wake up. Although i don't mind if Wenger is replaced with Guardiola either...only him though.

I didn't even bother watching the match yesterday because i had a niggling feeling we were done in the competition after the Reading match. And sure enough...
 

twietee

macrumors 603
Jan 24, 2012
5,300
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Guardiola in London? I can imagine that.

In other news, today was (in my neighborhood) the referee Manfred Amerell found dead. Kind of mysterious circumstances and likely the second (!) ref dieing this year by suicide. The first one was Rafati. More food for shenanigans.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
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Sod off
Bantams 'Keeper Matt Duke is a consummate professional and an outstanding gentleman, and I'm rather chuffed for him and the other former Tigers who are currently with Bradford. :)

You have to give them credit - despite all the talk about a poor Arsenal performance, Bradford still had to go out there and show great skill and stamina to win that game. They'll be talking about that down there for a long, long time.

...I do hope that there are not to many mistakes, and that it is readable.

Interesting stuff. I like the idea about making attacking refs on the pitch a criminal offense. And it's obviously going to be important to raise the standard of officiating to eliminate bias and defuse local tensions.

I'm secretly hoping for this outcome. Not because i want Wenger to leave but because i want the Board to wake up. Although i don't mind if Wenger is replaced with Guardiola either...only him though.

I didn't even bother watching the match yesterday because i had a niggling feeling we were done in the competition after the Reading match. And sure enough...

Guardiola is the focus of intense speculation, but I honestly can't see him at any club that isn't called Barcelona. Still Arsenal seems a closer match than most. But any club academy is going to look pretty poor to him, and he'll have to rely on the transfer market to improve any clubs he ends up managing. Unless he just goes back to Barca some day.
 

daneoni

macrumors G4
Mar 24, 2006
11,610
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^
I know there is very little chance of Guardiola joining us...was merely stating my pipe dream.

Meanwhile, the revolt is already slowly brewing. Gazidis had to spend 2hrs doing damage control. Even though he was essentially singing the same old tune.
 

Happybunny

macrumors 68000
Sep 9, 2010
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I just read this,


Udinese dedicate 2-0 win to their only away fan

A FOOTIE fan was stunned to find he was his Italian premier league team’s ONLY supporter at an away match.
Arrigo Brovedani said he didn’t expect many Udinese fans to make the near 250-mile trip to Sampdoria’s 36,000 stadium to watch them on a cold December night.
But Udinese captain Antonio Di Natale appreciated his backing — and jokingly asked the loyal fan on to the pitch to warm up with the Serie A side.
Throughout the match, Brovedani didn't let the fact he was the only person in the 4,134-seater away section get him down, bellowing: “Come on Udinese!”


He was also given a shirt by Sampdoria, hot coffee from the stewards — then invited for a drink with the home fans afterwards.
And after winning 2-0 Udinese dedicated their victory to him — and invited him to their next match on Saturday.
The wine merchant said: "I went there thinking I'd find five or six other people.
"I went into the stadium while they were warming up. I shouted and said 'Hi' to the team.
"When I went in the local fans booed me, I felt a bit offended.
"But in the end they clapped and invited me for coffee and a meal, and the club managers gave me a shirt. They wished me a merry Christmas."



http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ne-Udinese-fan-attends-game-at-Sampdoria.html
 

takao

macrumors 68040
Dec 25, 2003
3,827
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Dornbirn (Austria)
Guardiola in London? I can imagine that.

In other news, today was (in my neighborhood) the referee Manfred Amerell found dead. Kind of mysterious circumstances and likely the second (!) ref dieing this year by suicide. The first one was Rafati. More food for shenanigans.

Rafati actually is still alive ... he was saved by the first aid measures from his assistants who found him
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
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These fines for racist behavior are pointless and frankly insulting. If FIFA/UEFA are serious about combatting racism, they will start instituting bans - against fans, players, clubs, leagues, even FAs. Fines are a joke and accomplish nothing.

I really think that FIFA/UEFA are a complete embarrassment when it comes to dealing with racism.
 

Confuzzzed

macrumors 68000
Aug 7, 2011
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Word on the street, the proposed transfers of Daniel Sturridge and Tom Ince to LFC will largely be funded by proceeds from the sale of Raheem Sterling to Spurs. Forced sale,I imagine and not great PR for the club's ambitions if it happens
 

remmy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 1, 2007
649
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These fines for racist behavior are pointless and frankly insulting. If FIFA/UEFA are serious about combatting racism, they will start instituting bans - against fans, players, clubs, leagues, even FAs. Fines are a joke and accomplish nothing.

I really think that FIFA/UEFA are a complete embarrassment when it comes to dealing with racism.

On the bbc report it lists recent Uefa fines;

£16,700 to Porto for their fans' racist abuse during the Europa League match against Manchester City.
£32,500 to Lazio following racist chanting during a Europa League game against Tottenham.
£24,735 to Manchester City for being one minute late back onto the pitch after half-time against Porto.
£80,000 to Denmark striker Nicklas Bendtner for revealing a sponsor's logo on his underpants during Euro 2012.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20718693
 

Lord Blackadder

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Word on the street, the proposed transfers of Daniel Sturridge and Tom Ince to LFC will largely be funded by proceeds from the sale of Raheem Sterling to Spurs. Forced sale,I imagine and not great PR for the club's ambitions if it happens

I'm not yet convinced that Sterling is so great - he might turn out to be just another overrated, overvalued English player. It's too early to tell, and selling him might not be as bad a move as some say. I would like to keep him if we can, but at the moment we need a striker badly. Buying back Tom Ince will not look good, of course...but he'll be cheaper than market value because of the 35% sell-on clause he has in his contract from when he left Liverpool..

Sturridge is a good player, but he'll cost more than we refused to pay for Dempsey. If we have to sell in order to buy it's going to be very difficult for Rogers to improves Liverpool's league finish.

On the bbc report it lists recent Uefa fines

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
 
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Confuzzzed

macrumors 68000
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Liverpool, UK
I'm not yet convinced that Sterling is so great - he might turn out to be just another overrated, overvalued English player.

I have to say, although a taboo subject for many Liverpool fans, I sort of agree with you. For every great British winger (Giggs, Barnes, Waddle, Bale) there's 5 mediocre ones who were once considered world beaters (SWP, Downing, Lennon, Lee Sharpe, Walcott...)

The only reason I hessitate to say completely agree with you is one of perception. Selling one of the countries brighter prospects, even if it's for £15-17m, the club may slip into 'selling club' category which attracts frequent raids from more affluent competitors. Which can be disruptive (cf. Arsenal).
 

Happybunny

macrumors 68000
Sep 9, 2010
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These fines for racist behavior are pointless and frankly insulting. If FIFA/UEFA are serious about combatting racism, they will start instituting bans - against fans, players, clubs, leagues, even FAs. Fines are a joke and accomplish nothing.

I really think that FIFA/UEFA are a complete embarrassment when it comes to dealing with racism.

While I completely agree about the fines, handed out by UEFA are a joke.There can be no place for any type of discrimination in football. :mad:

But this case is just as bad IMO.
The case of Anders Frisk was mentioned, here in the Netherlands in the wake of the Lines man's death. He was hounded out of the sport and his family was threaten, by Chelsea fans.

Given the abuse and loathing dished out by highly paid but foul-mouthed stars, managers seeking excuses for defeat and fans who see injustice every time the whistle blows, it is already the loneliest job in football.
But yesterday's sudden retirement by one of the world's top referees after receiving death threats from Chelsea supporters leaves the task of keeping order in the increasingly ugly 'beautiful game' bordering on anarchy,

Anders Frisk, who has officiated at scores of vital matches, has reluctantly put away his notebook, whistle and yellow and red cards for the last time.

The respected 42-year-old Swede made the dramatic announcement after he and his family were inundated with threats from followers of the London club who had been victimising them ever since he refereed their Champions' League game in Barcelona in February.

'I have been subjected to things that I couldn't even imagine,' said Frisk, who describes himself as 'a Chelsea fan since boyhood', yesterday. 'I love to referee and I have done it since 1978, but what has happened to me over the last 16 days means it is not worth continuing.

'I won't ever go out on a football pitch again. I am too scared. It is not worth it. Unfortunately that is the way football looks in 2005.'I've had enough. I don't know if I even dare let my kids go to the post office.

'These past 16 days have been the worst in my life as a soccer referee,' added Frisk, who was left with a bloody head earlier this season when he was hit by an object thrown by fans of the Italian club Roma during another Champions League tie.

Detailing a growing catalogue of harassment, Frisk said the campaign of intimidation against him had 'escalated day by day' since his performance on 23 February during Barcelona's 2-1 win in their Camp Nou stadium led to accusations of poor judgment and favouritism towards the home side from Chelsea's temperamental and controversial Portuguese boss, José Mourinho.

'There have been threats on the telephone and via email and post, and my family have also been threatened. I have a big family and I have been worried - anything can apparently happen'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Frisk
 

pachyderm

macrumors G3
Jan 12, 2008
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and before we single out any set of fans let us point out that there is good and bad in everyone, thank you messrs. mccartney & wonder, and that the root of the problem lay in one or two people feeding off of a "mob rules' mentality...
 
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