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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:08 AM   #76
pancakedrawer
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I think the fact that this has popped up a few times, along with the lack of updates, indicates that Apple is working on something big. Perhaps only a small amount of resources are being allocated towards the project, but a new form factor and concept is imminent. Late 2013 (read early 2014) should be interesting for us proper computer users.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:20 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
I love how some people go on and on about how Apple is the Porsche, Mercedes Benz, BMW, what have you of the PC world. How they're computers for people with taste and money.

No, Apple is like the Ferrari of computers. And telephones.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:22 AM   #78
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OK so my 2008 MacPro might get another year out of this...
I'm thinking the same; my GeForce 8800 GT developed the most annoying fan whine about a month after my Applecare expired and it's been driving me insane, time for a replacement!


However, on the issue of GPUs I'm still saddened by the lack of a proper cross-platform standard; I mean the whole point of OpenGL is that it's a nice accessible standard for rendering, but that doesn't really count for much if you're still limited by a lack of drivers leaving you stuck with only the handful of cards that become available.

If there were a good standard for providing onboard card drivers in a bytecode or source-code format then the OS could just compile it automatically and we could put any card with the feature in. Like how a lot of USB sticks used to come preloaded with drivers, but cross-platform. If I could actually just shove any current windows compatible card in it'd be great; I only have monitors with DVI connectors anyway so I'm not exactly dying to get mini-displayport/thunderbolt on a card.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:22 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
I hope that Apple sues them into oblivion for stealing their trade dress.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:28 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
The development has naturally sparked speculation that Apple is starting to build in support for graphics cards to be used in the all-new Mac Pro coming in 2013.
So ... the 2013 Mac Pro will get a video chipset from January 2012 ?

And... people are happy about this ?
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:32 AM   #81
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But then you have the true professional. Someone who's editing raw 4k video clips, rendering out high resolution movie scenes, or modeling scientific data. Those people need all the processing power they can get, and is something the iMac can't provide. That's who the Pro is built for.
Don't you really mean, "That's who the Pro was built for."?

Mac Pros are so behind the times it's sad. No USB3? No Thunderbolt?! Think about it: Does "granny" need Thunderbolt? Nope. Granny don't need that kind of throughput!! It's an architecture aimed at Pros and it's altogether absent on the most "Pro" Mac. How does that work? But, you were talking about "processing power". Aren't the Xeons inside 2012 Mac Pros based on 2009 architecture? How is that "all the processing power they can get?" Sounds like "they" are somehow trapped in the past.

I think a critical goal for any "true professional" would be to keep the blinders off stay objective at all costs and always go with the absolute best tool(s) available. If the information you had handy lead you to buy a Mac Pro, as today's most powerful choice, then I'd encourage you to turn away from the 3-year old information!

Don't get me wrong. I love the Mac. But as time goes on, its hardware advantages are dying!! (Have died?) The Mac is devolving into nothing but a vessel for Os X. And now, even that's in the process of getting so glazed over it's silly. I mean, come on! Did "Save As" really need to get replaced by this "Duplicate" concept? We should ask Granny because I think it's a solution for a problem that didn't exist. Changes to Mac Os are growingly inspired by paranoia. Uh, do we need to have the Library folder hidden, by default? Pros need to get in there, Granny doesn't need inside that Application Support folder. So remind me... where's the focus? On Pros? Os X and iOs are merging. Swiftly! Facebook is built in to Mountain Lion. How cute! When I'm finally done pulling my keys for that Hobbit scene I can update my FB status to reflect it. Hooray!

The bottom line is I don't think high-end users should be gloating about how amazing our gear is, when realistically, it's blatantly out-of-date! Instead of throwing our arms up in undeserved victories we should be voicing our disdain with the long-standing Mac Pro neglect. Apple's hubris is getting the better of us! And we're complacently settling. We're all settling for underpowered / overpriced computers that are pretty...? We're being told, "Here's how it is!" And we're swallowing it with pleasure. FCPX was a the perfect example of Apple, again, telling an entire sector, "You're doing it wrong!" Editors weren't holding onto practices and paradigms solely because they were old; they were holding onto them because they worked! And still do. FCPX is coming around and slowly rebuilding features it should have had on release day. But it was obviously NOT built by people who edit complex projects day-in and day-out!! Period. There are some great "concepts" in there. But the devil's in the details.

It's like we're all celebrating this dead giant. Something whose time has come and gone and we don't get it yet... we're still waving the flag, blindly, vigorously. All the while, the smart kids are over there... over there with HP Z800s and Red Rocket cards. Over there shooting and posting high-resolution timelapses. Over there working on the next Pixar film. (Where's the Macs in those images? We are talking high-end right?) Come on, pitch me! If I were buying a complete DaVinci Resolve setup tomorrow, why would I center it around a new Mac Pro?

Just know that I don't mean any of this personally. I'm not trying to point fingers or call anyone out. But this viewpoint that Apple can do no wrong is tired. This whole thread is about some graphics card that a future Mac may, or may not, support. And there it is: we're holding up a magnifying glass to the entire problem. Graphics are the epitome of the Mac Pro's deficiencies! Go look at the CUDA card options for the PC. Now look at the "options" for the Mac. We're all clamoring over this supposed support over an already-old graphics card. Plain and simple: we shouldn't be applauding.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:35 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by MacinDoc View Post
...whose manufacturer, Macally, has shockingly not yet been sued by Apple for infringement of trade dress. Maybe because they're a Mac accessory maker and not a competing platform?
Apple has never minded its accessory makers using design elements and cues. All the plasticy USB crud that shipped after the first iMac didn't result in Apple lawsuits either.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 07:36 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by soulbot View Post
snip
Can't agree with you more. Intel is one to blame as well though because they haven't released anything ground breaking in terms of the Xeon line. I think Apple considers production, engineering costs, etc before they revise a machine. They are extremely over due though. I really think that Intel is pushing Apple's buttons and promising a chip only to delay it further and further. Not that it's acceptable but I'm just speculating. I love OS X but in a business aspect I believe they're pushing away professionals. I think in the past, applications like FCP were a big reason for users to use the OS X platform but as over the years Apple has discontinued and changed some its software. Professionals have started to choose applications that are multi-platform and going into a cheaper alternatives.

I still hope this is a sign of a new Mac Pro.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 07:52 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
No, Apple is like the Ferrari of computers. And telephones.
The car analogy again? Maybe it's me but I don't drive down the road and see a Ferrari everyones driveway. You're comparing a company which produces roughly 11,000 high performance cars a year starting at ~$200,000+ to a mass produced $.99-$200 phone.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 08:21 AM   #85
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Graphics are the epitome of the Mac Pro's deficiencies! Go look at the CUDA card options for the PC. Now look at the "options" for the Mac. We're all clamoring over this supposed support over an already-old graphics card. Plain and simple
The 7970 may be "already old" but it is still the top of the line AMD card.

Aside from which, I know some people like having Apple list things as "supported" on their site before they use them, but if you look at the top sticky in this sub-forum you will see that except for SLI, any current Nvidia card can be used for CUDA applications in ML 10.8.2 TODAY, with drivers available to the public.

I think Nvidia deserves more appreciation for the efforts they have made to bring & keep current drivers for most of their cards to OSX. The Nvidia Mac division has gone to great lengths to do what they can to keep real cards available. If it were up to Apple, the Quadro 4000 really would be top of the line CUDA card.

I think the 7970 support is a great thing. But part of why this is so exciting is that AMD driver support has been so poor for so long. The 6970 works in some OS versions of OSX, others it KPs in.

Nvidia has tried very hard to include drivers for every card they make. Their cards started "self initing" (no EFI needed once desktop reached) in 10.7.3. AMD has included support for SOME of their cards (less than half) and their drivers started "self-initing" in 10.6.6. (IIRC)

SO, there has been a private little GPU battle for the Mac market. For all the hand wringing about GPUs, you have MANY, MANY more options than just 2 years ago. This 7xxx support is great news, but it is only exceptional because Nvidia has been winning for so long.

It will be great if these drivers are needed in near future in a new Mac Pro. Probably won't happen, but it has to be a good sign that someone is at least still playing around and writing new drivers for cards that didn't work in a Mac before 2 days ago. I can tell you that many cards get developed for Mac Pros but never come out. I have a box of GTX285 cards with MDP, an 8800GTS 320 for Mac Pro, complete with bracket that fits perfectly into card support and even a 3870 "Silver Arrrow", a very odd thing indeed, but also with brackets just for Mac Pro.

Many cards get considered and tested and compared. So maybe they are just writing 7970 drivers to help decide between 7950 and GTX680? Or maybe AMD wanted to get back in the drivers game BEFORE they had to write 8xxx drivers. Or maybe .....??????? It can't be a bad thing in any case. Rejoice that the Mac Pro story is still being written.

Last edited by MacVidCards; Nov 28, 2012 at 08:31 AM.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 08:38 AM   #86
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What about updated drivers for the 6XXX series?
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 08:41 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Apple has never minded its accessory makers using design elements and cues. All the plasticy USB crud that shipped after the first iMac didn't result in Apple lawsuits either.
It appears that you misunderstood my attempt at sarcasm. Of course, you are correct, Apple allows its accessory makers to essentially provide free advertising for the company by closely approximating its' products design style and naming.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 10:26 AM   #88
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Kool beans
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 10:50 AM   #89
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Now give me a Thunderbolt chassis to plug my MacBook Air into a card like this (or as good as is possible) when I’m not on the road. Seriously, any year now would be fine....
Thunderbolt does not have the bandwidth you think it does (or perhaps more accurately, these GPUs need more than you think they need).
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 11:04 AM   #90
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The only way forward...

The only way forward that I can see is building your own machines. Apple has forsaken the professionals and so we must look after our selves. They took too long with the Mac Pro so many of us took matters in our own hands.
Now the only way I can see myself getting the power, flexibility and freedom at the price I can afford is with a Hackintosh.

It's sad to say but after nearly 30 years - yes I once owned a Lisa - I don't think I'll buy Mac desktop hardware again. As soon as I can I will also switch to Linux. I did it before just a year before OSX came out I gave up on OS9 and installed Yellowdog on all my machines and used them with MOL. It was great.

What Apple doesn't undertand is the their core supporters are intelligent, creative and resourceful and we will move on if they don't move forward with us.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 11:28 AM   #91
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Thunderbolt does not have the bandwidth you think it does (or perhaps more accurately, these GPUs need more than you think they need).
It has been shown that as long as the GPU has enough on board RAM you won't pull from System RAM. Which means the TB bandwidth would be sufficient in most (if not all) cases.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 12:43 PM   #92
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umm te mac por concept is out dated... imac and mac minis are powerfull enough now so apple will need to make a 8ghz cpu with 32 gigs of ddr4 ram and the latest greatest video cards to attract any attention to those machines
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:01 PM   #93
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Please let this happen, and please let it work for my Mid-2010 Mac Pro. The thing is a beast, but the 5780 card is long-in-the-tooth.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 10:32 PM   #94
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I spent two years waiting for a Mac Pro...what a waste. I finally bought the new Mac Mini Quad-Core with Fusion Drive and I am loving it. ($1k + $70 on amazon to get 16 GB RAM)

Not saying its a real Mac Pro replacement, just that if you think you want a Mac Pro but don't really need it and/or are tired of waiting... get the new Mac Mini! You wont regret it.

I do lots of work in FCP X, PhotoShop, Handbrake...etc and the results have been incredible. I am very satisfied with the purchase and am no longer itching for the Pro to be updated. What a joke that has been.
Ditto. I got a quad core mini and maxed out the ram on macsales. I'm using an external 1.5 GB drive as a scratch drive, With surprisingly satisfying results on Final Cut Pro X. Obviously I'm not a professional, but for the weekend warrior Final Cut Pro user, you'll likely find it satisfactory.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 11:18 PM   #95
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Ditto. I got a quad core mini and maxed out the ram on macsales. I'm using an external 1.5 GB drive as a scratch drive, With surprisingly satisfying results on Final Cut Pro X. Obviously I'm not a professional, but for the weekend warrior Final Cut Pro user, you'll likely find it satisfactory.
BINGO! Did you get the fusion drive? I have one in mine, but I'm not sure if it is actually increasing the speed because I can't tell which drive it is writing to?
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:56 AM   #96
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It has been shown that as long as the GPU has enough on board RAM you won't pull from System RAM. Which means the TB bandwidth would be sufficient in most (if not all) cases.
Really? do you have the links to show that? Depending on the code OpenCL can be VERY bandwidth hungry.
Having more GPU memory makes the problems worse not better.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:45 PM   #97
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http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2200539
Sadly this is mainly relevant in games.

http://www.behardware.com/articles/8...rformance.html Found this link but not sure if relevant since it isn't measuring TB bandwith. Though I would imagine you would be looking at slower speeds since your PCIe link back into the computer is only 4x.

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Really? do you have the links to show that? Depending on the code OpenCL can be VERY bandwidth hungry.
Having more GPU memory makes the problems worse not better.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 05:28 PM   #98
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It can't be a bad thing in any case. Rejoice that the Mac Pro story is still being written.
Indeed! You're right. I'll admit it: I am glad that there is a future for the Mac Pro. And I do see how this is good news.

Right now though, I guess I'm just particularly weary of a specific Apple mantra: "...people don't know what they want until you show it to them."

This may be a fine philosophy for success in many sectors, but not every sector. Assuming so is the specific hubris that I alluded to already. In "consumer" markets it may work just fine. In "Pro" markets though? I think that the livelihood of most Pros rests squarely on already knowing what they want (and need)! Disregarding this and delivering "your version" of what you think they need is plainly arrogant. In fact, couldn't it be said that FCPX was born straight out of this exact mentality. And we all saw how that went. Sure, many love it. But for every one of them, how many others fully abandoned it?

Supposedly, Steve Jobs wanted to revolutionize a couple of industries. Music being one of them. So does that impetus reveal itself in iTunes or Logic? Because one of them is growing long-in-the-tooth. (Hint: Logic Pro 9 = released 7/2009). Jobs also wanted to impact Photography. Again does that mean iPhone-ography? Or Aperture? Again, one of these was aimed at Pros, but is now growing tired and trailing the competition.

I can't help but feel there is a TON of pressure on this pending Mac Pro release! My fingers are crossed that we get something amazing but I'm certainly not willing to bet on it.

We shall see...
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 10:36 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by James Craner View Post
First leaked photo of the new Mac Pro after it has been given the Jony Ive minimalist makeover

Attachment 380074

Sorry could not resist!
As long as I can still grate cheese with it, I'm a happy man.

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Old Dec 19, 2012, 04:50 AM   #100
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If they don't release a 16-core Mac Pro with Thunderbolt, USB3 by April, 2013 I will sadly have to move to a HP Z8XX workstation. This is becoming ridiculous.
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