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Old Feb 27, 2013, 12:24 AM   #526
Swift
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Originally Posted by Chris Blount View Post
So since we are breaking this barrier, I can marry my dog now right?
You know, what you can't seem to understand is that this is love between adult humans. The philosopher Martin Buber talks about every relationship being an "I-Thou," whereas you own a pet. You may love them, but you can't reach an "I-Thou" relationship.

Or a simpler way of thinking of it is that marriage is open only to those who can sign a contract of any kind. Dogs can't make contracts.

Now, think about a trickier issue: why are multiple marriages illegal? Why can't people have two wives or two husbands? Or more? Everybody's a free adult, right? So quick, how do you exclude harems from the right to contract?
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 12:26 AM   #527
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How about teaching girls to put condoms on bananas, masquerading as sex education.
They taught the guys how to do it in my school as well. And they didn't use bananas, they used dildos. And you know what? My school's teen birth rate was next to nothing and the graduation rate was 97%. Damn liberal education...

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a gay
A gay?
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 12:29 AM   #528
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They've done it in the past. Why didn't you stop giving them your money then? And while we're at it, let's rethink the word "given". You gave them nothing. You TRADED a predetermined amount of money for a product in return. Unless you made a donation to Apple you have no point here. You have a choice where to buy electronics from, it's called capitalism.
Funny... im sure you were just as understanding with chic-fil-a, werent you?

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A gay?
gasp... did i say it wrong? FYI, Your comparing yourself to african americans again.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 12:32 AM   #529
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gasp... did i say it wrong? FYI, Your comparing yourself to african americans again.
Lol, you just demonstrated your bias. You assume that because I support gay rights, that must make me gay. Just like if I lived 50 years ago and supported civil rights, you would have called me a "Niger lover". Straight white guy here, FYI.

No, you didn't say it wrong. You just said it in a derogatory manner and it's very thinly veiled.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 12:34 AM   #530
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Well, it must not be working too well these days since I (and others) choose to believe in religion without being forced to.
Then you're simply ignoring and cherry picking from whatever religious text you claim to adhere to, nothing more. And I'm sorry to say, but it is working, and only too effectively in many areas of the world, even in the United States. Not a day goes by when the religious attempt to encroach on free society with an attempt to force junk science to be taught in the classroom, or attempt to censure free speech or satire on religious icons. One only needs to look back a few months to see the global outburst of violence excused by 'offense' taken to a satirical movie along the lines of The Life of Brian, except it wasn't concerning Christianity.
Not one single main-stream paper in the United States dared to show people what all the fuss was about when it came to a cartoon in 2006, purely out of fear of the religious.
When a religious leader, in his own name, offers money, for the suborning of murder, of a novelist, from a different country, who lived in England; who did all the religious leaders in the western world condemn? The novelist! The author, for blasphemy. So don't try to tell me, that simply because you choose to believe in an absolute totalitarian authority and try to wash over the bad bits, that others don't and try to force it on others, because the journalistic profession proves it quite conclusively.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 12:35 AM   #531
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Lol, you just demonstrated your bias. You assume that because I support gay rights, that must make me gay. Just like if I lived 50 years ago and supported civil rights, you would have called me a "Niger lover". Straight white guy here, FYI.

No, you didn't say it wrong. You just said it in a derogatory manner and it's very thinly veiled.
again... please stop comparing gay rights to black rights. Not the same.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 12:35 AM   #532
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A simple read that neither supports your claims, or disproves my own.

Religion is a tool. Wether it's used for control or for freedom are up to the wielder.
Sorry, but that doesn't negate the fact that religion is innately totalitarian and vicious in its commandments. If one were to use it as an excuse for anything moral or ethical, it would be at the very least cognitively dissonant of the user, and in itself not a reason to adhere to any motion said user puts forward. If it has any effect, it's making use of a supposedly inalterable and totalitarian authority.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 12:38 AM   #533
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again... please stop comparing gay rights to black rights. Not the same.
No? Why not? Before you answer that, just answer one thing. Do you believe it's a choice or do you believe they are born that way? If you believe homosexuality is a choice then no further explanation is needed.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 12:42 AM   #534
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gasp... did i say it wrong? FYI, Your comparing yourself to african americans again.
FYI, it's "you're comparing." You just can't do anything right, can you?
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 12:52 AM   #535
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No? Why not? Before you answer that, just answer one thing. Do you believe it's a choice or do you believe they are born that way? If you believe homosexuality is a choice then no further explanation is needed.
You cannot look at a gay person and discrminate as you can't tell that they're gay. Unless you are homosexual or black, (or both), you don't really know if it's a choice so yes, stop comparing those two.

Anyways. This is wrong. Not the gay marriage thing - I'm not exactly sure where I am on that but that Apple is speaking on a sensitive political issue. Apple is a business not an individual with a personal opinion.
For something like this they need to ask the shareholders and a reasonable number of employees first. (I'm assuming probably rightly that they didn't). Once they have only then can this statement be the voice of Apple.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 12:56 AM   #536
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You cannot look at a gay person and discrminate as you can't tell that they're gay. Unless you are homosexual or black, (or both), you don't really know if it's a choice so yes, stop comparing those two.

Anyways. This is wrong. Not the gay marriage thing - I'm not exactly sure where I am on that but that Apple is speaking on a sensitive political issue. Apple is a business not an individual with a personal opinion.
For something like this they need to ask the shareholders and employees first. (I'm assuming probably rightly that they didn't). Once they have only then can this statement be the voice of Apple.
Apple has a board of directors and a CEO. They get to make daily decisions about what's best for the company. Shareholders can take action if they feel the board or the CEO is on the wrong path, but it's a long process. And since when do employees get much of a say?

As for whether homosexuality is a choice; take my word for it: no. If you don't want to take my word for it, read some of the latest scientific literature.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.1086/668167?uid=3739448&uid=2&uid=3737720&uid=4&sid=21101482566461
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 12:59 AM   #537
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You cannot look at a gay person and discrminate as you can't tell that they're gay. Unless you are homosexual or black, (or both), you don't really know if it's a choice so yes, stop comparing those two.
Did you choose to be straight? No? Then it's not a choice. Neither is homosexuality, most scientists have already agreed on that and there's tons of research on it. How is it relevant that you can't superficially tell if someone is gay? You can't always tell someone is Jewish by appearance, does that mean that anti-semitism isn't the same as racism against black people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by H2SO4 View Post
For something like this they need to ask the shareholders and a reasonable number of employees first. (I'm assuming probably rightly that they didn't). Once they have only then can this statement be the voice of Apple.
How do you know what their internal process was to come to this decision as a company? And on another note, they're a private company and not a government agency. They can do whatever the hell they want. Who are you to decide what a company should and shouldn't say? Sounds like communism to me.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 01:01 AM   #538
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Just make insanely great products Apple!
I don't think this is a good thing to do for the stockholders!
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 01:12 AM   #539
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I don't agree with you. There have been limitations on marriage in every society. You can't marry your siblings, parents etc. that is a healthy limitation, no matter how mutual they say it is.
I agree with you, but that why I said mutual. I don't think many girls would want to marry their fathers, nor many siblings that would like to marry each other. (There are exceptions of course)

Mostly these in these instants it's not mutual, it's wanted/enforced by one of the stronger of the parties (or their parents)
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 01:13 AM   #540
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Did you choose to be straight? No? Then it's not a choice. Neither is homosexuality, most scientists have already agreed on that and there's tons of research on it. How is it relevant that you can't superficially tell if someone is gay? You can't always tell someone is Jewish by appearance, does that mean that anti-semitism isn't the same as racism against black people?


How do you know what their internal process was to come to this decision as a company? And on another note, they're a private company and not a government agency. They can do whatever the hell they want. Who are you to decide what a company should and shouldn't say? Sounds like communism to me.
You've straight away asked me a question and then answered it yourself without actually knowing the answer which makes me wonder if I should consider the rest of your rambling idiotic in that paragraph.
If I was black it means that somebody prejudiced can shoot me from a distance if they hate negros. When the dust settles my still living gay friend might call the police, check himself for bullet wounds and realise why the two are different.
If you aren't either you should think more carefully before you answer things like that. Not belittling your comparison just saying consider it more carefully.

Second paragraph.....
How do you know also?
I'll answer that when I pop in to my local to buy a keyboard later as I'll ask the store staff. That'll tell me whether they were all asked or not.
Correct not goverment agency, private company, not individual as I said. If your voice is for the company, ask the company. If it's personal speak personally, say, 'I Tim cook, not Apple, support gay marriage'.

I don't consider that research or anybody elses. I didn't say it was or wasn't a choice and by the way scientists have been wrong before.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 01:21 AM   #541
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If I was black it means that somebody prejudiced can shoot me from a distance if they hate negros. When the dust settles my still living gay friend might call the police, check himself for bullet wounds and realise why the two are different.
If you aren't either you should think more carefully before you answer things like that.
So discrimination is only bad if you can be spotted at a distance and shot? You realize why this sounds ridiculous right?

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Second paragraph.....
How do you know also?
I'll answer that when I pop in to my local to buy a keyboard later as I'll ask the store staff. That'll tell me whether they were all asked or not.
Correct not goverment agency, private company, not individual as I said. If your voice is for the company, ask the company. If it's personal speak personally, say, 'I Tim cook, not Apple, support gay marriage'.
Again, the burden of proof is not on me as I'm not the one bothered by it. When does a company ever ask every single employee down to it's retail staff about their opinion before making decisions for the company? You think Chik-Fil-A asked all their employees before supporting anti-equality groups? Of course not. The founder came out and straight up said that because of his Christian faith, Chik-Fil-A donates money to those organizations. That's their right as a private company, and they don't have to ask the guy who operates the deep fryer what his stance is. I'm glad they're honest about it so I know where not to spend my money. If you don't like this, don't buy Apple products. Don't know what else to tell you.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 01:23 AM   #542
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Government shouldn't have anything to do with marriage in the first place - the entire thing is a religious concept and so having the government say it is or isn't allowed is like having the government approve and disapprove of specific religions (which is explicitly non-constitutional.)
Actually marriage is and has always been a financial concept. The church didn't even become actively involved with marriage until the 12th century.

Also keep in mind that non-religious people marry too.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 01:26 AM   #543
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So discrimination is only bad if you can be spotted at a distance and shot? You realize why this sounds ridiculous right?


Again, the burden of proof is not on me as I'm not the one bothered by it. When does a company ever ask every single employee down to it's retail staff about their opinion because making decisions for the company? You think Chik-Fil-A asked all their employees before supporting anti-equality groups? Of course not. The founder came out and straight up said that because of his Christian faith, Chik-Fil-A donates money to those organizations. That's their right as a private company, and they don't have to ask the guy who operates the deep fryer what his stance is. I'm glad they're honest about it so I know where not to spend my money. If you don't like this, don't buy Apple products. Don't know what else to tell you.

The point made was don't compare them as they may both be prejudice but they ain't the same.
My company has things that it puts out to employess and others that the board decide, but did, I say every single employee?

Again, if you aren't either you should think more carefully before you answer things like that. Not belittling your comparison just saying consider it more carefully.


I'll tell you what. Chalk this up as a victory for yourself. I'll wave goodbye here, you obviously have myopia.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 01:27 AM   #544
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Here in Spain we had that hot topic years ago.

Now gay people can get married and couples can adopt together children (until then gay people could only adopt alone) and doesn't have changed anything and civilization has not ended
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 01:33 AM   #545
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The point made was don't compare them as they may both be prejudice but they ain't the same.
My company has things that it puts out to employess and others that the board decide, but did, I say every single employee?
You still don't get it, and you're grasping at straws at this point. Many companies have what is called a corporate culture. Apple, as well as most technology companies, tend to have very liberal values built into their foundations. It's their right. Just because some employees disagree, doesn't mean that a company can't issue a statement. Don't like it? Get a new job at a company who's values are more like your own, like Wal-Mart. Welcome to America.

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I'll tell you what. Chalk this up as a victory for yourself. I'll wave goodbye here, you obviously have myopia.
Lol, ok. I don't need your admission of defeat, just be less hypocritical in the future.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 01:34 AM   #546
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No? Why not? Before you answer that, just answer one thing. Do you believe it's a choice or do you believe they are born that way? If you believe homosexuality is a choice then no further explanation is needed.
Both actually...

Some are born that way. Some are forms of social factors like sexual abuse in their childhood or same sex incarceration. Some just think its "cool".
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 01:37 AM   #547
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Careful of people who can't admit when wrong.

There are a few in this thread.
As to spain, have you noticed any change in general society?

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Both actually...

Some are born that way. Some are forms of social factors like sexual abuse in their childhood or same sex incarceration. Some just think its "cool".
Now you're in trouble - you've disagreed with the oracle.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 01:40 AM   #548
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Both actually...

Some are born that way. Some are forms of social factors like sexual abuse in their childhood or same sex incarceration. Some just think its "cool".
Not sure how much i buy the "cool" argument. Regardless though, it really doesn't matter. The "born this way" argument is only a small part of the pro-equality logic.

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As to spain, have you noticed any change in general society?
Do you really honestly believe that it would cause any change in society? Come on now, how sheltered are you?
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Now you're in trouble - you've disagreed with the oracle.
I like when people disagree with me, but if you do you better prove me wrong. It's funny how when people get proven wrong, instead of admitting they were wrong, they just call you a know it all. You failed to make your point, and I had a very good answer for each of your talking points.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 01:41 AM   #549
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As to spain, have you noticed any change in general society?[COLOR="#808080"]
Absolutely nothing, perhaps because there was a lot of support to gay marriage, the most controversial point was adoption
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 01:44 AM   #550
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Absolutely nothing, perhaps because there was a lot of support to gay marriage, the most controversial point was adoption
Some people in the US thought that when we allowed gays to serve openly in the military it would turn the whole military gay and butt sex in the shower will become acceptable. People are unbelievably paranoid.
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