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tdale

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2013
1,293
77
Christchurch, N.Z.
I criticize Apple for a lot of things too, but this is not the topic of the thread..

Every opinion is subjective, so you must hate Apple...Explain. This is not even an argument. I think you should be more open to criticism. Ohhhh. I have no issue criticising Apple or MS where is it du, and praising either when it is due. Your beef is with MS, as I said, one way traffic. Microsoft has done a lot of mistakes so has Apple, and so IS Apple according to many Apple users and it seems that they are trying to correct a lot of them with Windows 10. That doesn't put them in front of the game, but on the right course to become relevant again. Windows is more relevant than OS X, 20:1 They lost their importance when they lost the mobile wars to Apple and Google..LOL, seriously? Desktop success or lack of it has ZERO to do with mobile success. Two unrelated product lines that are not the cause of the other, nor offer a benefit to the other
I said before that I don't see how this will change with Windows 10, especially on Phones. What is the feature we heard about last week that will make people switch to Windows based phones? We heard nothing. Only that the background is behind the tiles..and that we get Microsoft Office, which we already have on iOS. Apple has integration as a major factor. You can cobble it together in Android, but its messy, Apple does that wonderfully. W10 will unify desktops, tablets, phones, making getting a W10 phone a much more engaging option if you use Windows, and as we know, circa 94% globally use Windows.
Windows Phone must become much better than the competition in order to start getting some traction. Lumia are very nice phones, they lack nothing on hardware, OS, where they lack is apps. W10 may well increase the interest in devs to support apps

On the desktop front, there is no war to fight. Microsoft has already won that war years ago. It's about making the desktop important again and correcting the abomination called Windows 8.I guess that makes Yosemite also an abomination? Going by the complaints over bugs, issues, flattening, dumbing down, going back to ML, etc W8 was a change that no one liked. Yosemite, iOS7 and 8 were changes that few liked (flattening) and W10 is how much different to W8?? The full start menu is back and some other stuff. Its not 10, its Win8 fixed. Microsoft is not completely admitting its failure, and that is my problem with that. Off course the are, they are releasing W10 which is W8 fixed, thats an obvious admission. I wish they stopped talking about hybrids and how great they are. So you want them to market their hybrids as no good? You don't want them to advertise them as being good? Weird. You take all this too personally. Cos you think they are no good? Read posts by Apple and Windows users, they are a nice piece of kit, the SP3.
Who wants to use a surface as a tablet? It's too big! The same goes for the iPad Pro, in case that's real..Compromise is always needed when designing a new device, but too much compromise makes the user experience suffer. At the moment this is what's happening with all hybrids. Windows 10 is supposed to make this work better, but it cannot change the compromises the hardware was designed with, to satisfy the hybrid requirement. There are pros and cons, for hybrids or separate devices, its all in the implementation.
But of course, I am a hater, so please stay in denial. OK. My suggestion is don't hate cos you should do as you are an Apple fan. MS can make stuff that is as good, or is better, thats the denial. I am not saying W10 is that, nor is SP3, etc, it could be, or it might not be, but SP3 is nice, W10 is nice, what MS doing with their platforms is nice. Its getting closer to the Apple ecosystem. In short they are copying Apples model, albeit not 100% obviously.

When Microsoft finds a way to overcome the compromises that need to be made in order to create a hybrid device, then I will find them useful. Their idea is good, but their execution is bad. It's not Microsoft's fault though, we just don't have that kind of technology yet to support hybrid devices in an optimal way..

Somebody else mentioned Parallels and why it's number one product sold. Windows is useful for a lot of things that a Mac doesn't cover. I also use VMWare because of many reasons:
  • I want to check the Windows world too
  • I need to use Visio every other month, because of my work. I could use my windows laptop that I have from my job, but I prefer to use Windows on a Mac. They look better.
  • Other people might have some other software need that the Mac doesn't cover. It's great that we have the choice..
  • Most people need software for their work, because Microsoft is the number one company when it comes to business. For private use Mac users don't need Windows at all (unless they want to game seriously - I prefer to play on my PlayStation 4)


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It's pretty easy to explain actually. I want to use the tools I think they are the best for the job. iPhones are the best smartphones for me, so I appreciate the integration.
I also believe that the PlayStation 4 is better than the XBOX One as a game console, so I don't care about the XBOX. I am sure a lot of people think that, judging by the sales of the consoles the last 12 months.


Another general comment: I am not the only one saying Windows 8 sucks, the surface is a failure and that Windows Phone is lame. The market does! Just look at the numbers and the sales of the aforementioned products..
The market will speak again about Windows 10 and I believe it will make the OS a successful product.

.
 

tdale

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2013
1,293
77
Christchurch, N.Z.
I also believe that the PlayStation 4 is better than the XBOX One as a game console, so I don't care about the XBOX. I am sure a lot of people think that, judging by the sales of the consoles the last 12 months.

Point taken. Most hate the Xbox, based on sales. That means, many, not most, hate the PS4 as its rubbish? Two great consoles, one of them will have more sales so its more popular. Does that make No.2 bad? Does that make no one care about it? You place too much hate on what you don't have or use. Are you like this with your car?



Another general comment: I am not the only one saying Windows 8 sucks, the surface is a failure and that Windows Phone is lame. The market does! Just look at the numbers and the sales of the aforementioned products..
The market will speak again about Windows 10 and I believe it will make the OS a successful product.

Ok you need educating. As you don't read the news, follow tech topics, your position on anything tech is clearly based on your bias.

W8 doesnt suck, what sucked was the missing start menu, which you can easily download. I know many with 8, its fine. If Apple released the next version of OS X and it was TOTALLY different, that would suck too, human nature. The Surface RT was a failure, it was a 1.0 product so no surprises there. SP3 is a nice piece of kit, nice enough for Apple users to get one or want one.Thats the feedback on the few forums I access as well as one at home. SP3 sucks? Wow, thats way off base. Windows Phones, they are very nice, the Lunies. Do you know why sales are low? When MS finally went mobile, everyone who wanted a smartphone or a tablet ALREADY HAD ONE. Thats so obvious, too late to the market as it commented on day in and day out. The app store is of no help either. So research why sales are low before you decide what sucks or not. Not everything you dont use sucks


.

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Uh oh. As an Apple fan, you should know better than to make the mistake of equating popularity with quality. Windows 8 is only a failure relative to its predecessors. Despite the fact many people generally hate it, for reasons entirely real or completely imagined, it has moved more PCs than Apple has Macs.

This fact says nothing about the quality of either.

Also, only the Surface RT can be considered a dud. The Pros are doing pretty well for themselves.

Yep. Agree.

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The market has spoken! Android is better than iOS and OS X is inferior to Windows! So says your bad logic.

Well said.

iPhone is the best as I use one
Honda is best as I drive one

Thats also his logic. I admire his admiration of Apple (as I do), but his admiration is a tickle skewed. He should learn to have a balanced view and see the world as it is, not from rose coloured glasses

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There is a whole ecosystem, a PC market out there, where Windows plays the primary role.

Please argue your points accurately. The PC market is not an eco system. Windows 10 is their first entry to that area, as I mentioned earlier, copying part of Apples model

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Yesterday I had to spent the whole day configuring an MSI Touch based all-in-one PC for my neighbor. The PC came with Windows 8.1 preinstalled.
The whole experience itself was not bad, but you could see the disconnect between the modern and the desktop world. The touch based interface is pretty cool, but doesn't make sense when you sit in front of the computer. If you want to stand in front of it, then it is much better..Of course Windows 10 is supposed to solve these issues..I guess we will see how it goes.
It's a shame Microsoft didn't provide a tablet with the real Windows 8 modern UI only. It would be really cool..
The most negative thing that happened yesterday is having to spend the whole day installing updates..There is a big quality difference here between the Mac experience and the Windows one.

Whole day installing updates????? Now that is rubbish. Pull the other one.

If you had an older Windows disk, which had updated many times over the years, and you installed that clean, yes there will be many updates. That would not take anywhere near a whole day, maybe an hour or two depending on your internet connection.



Another thing that has been said here is that there is so much choice in hardware when buying a Windows PC. That might be true, but the choices are mostly a mess...
I tried finding an All-In-One PC with Retina resolution..Couldn't find anything.
After that I tried finding an all in one with 32GB RAM. Also nothing.
The only way to find what you want is by building your own PC. I had a look at the choices of Lenovo, HP and Dell and there is almost no customization possible. That might be ok for most people, but I couldn't find anything that has a similar configuration to my iMac, even in a tower config.
I am not looking to buy a PC, just wanted to see if anything changed since I had a really good look at the PC market. It looks that nothing changed..

Windows 10 will do nothing to change that. Sad.

You can get more configs with non Apple, you can build yourself, or you can use a system builder who will spec the parts you want and build it.

Or is the better choice to have low choice, where as someone else said, you are stuck with buying less that what you want or are forced to buy more? I also recall some complaining that they cannot get a 32GB RAM specced MBP, or whatever it was. Same issue??
 
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petvas

macrumors 603
Jul 20, 2006
5,479
1,808
Munich, Germany
Ok you need educating. As you don't read the news, follow tech topics, your position on anything tech is clearly based on your bias.

W8 doesnt suck, what sucked was the missing start menu, which you can easily download. I know many with 8, its fine. If Apple released the next version of OS X and it was TOTALLY different, that would suck too, human nature. The Surface RT was a failure, it was a 1.0 product so no surprises there. SP3 is a nice piece of kit, nice enough for Apple users to get one or want one.Thats the feedback on the few forums I access as well as one at home. SP3 sucks? Wow, thats way off base. Windows Phones, they are very nice, the Lunies. Do you know why sales are low? When MS finally went mobile, everyone who wanted a smartphone or a tablet ALREADY HAD ONE. Thats so obvious, too late to the market as it commented on day in and day out. The app store is of no help either. So research why sales are low before you decide what sucks or not. Not everything you dont use sucks


.

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Yep. Agree.

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Well said.

iPhone is the best as I use one
Honda is best as I drive one

Thats also his logic. I admire his admiration of Apple (as I do), but his admiration is a tickle skewed. He should learn to have a balanced view and see the world as it is, not from rose coloured glasses

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Please argue your points accurately. The PC market is not an eco system. Windows 10 is their first entry to that area, as I mentioned earlier, copying part of Apples model

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You can get more configs with non Apple, you can build yourself, or you can use a system builder who will spec the parts you want and build it.

Or is the better choice to have low choice, where as someone else said, you are stuck with buying less that what you want or are forced to buy more? I also recall some complaining that they cannot get a 32GB RAM specced MBP, or whatever it was. Same issue??

I am sorry but I have to say this. Fanboy alarm.

You have no clue what you are saying. Who said that I hate the XBOX? I just said that I prefer the PlayStation and that the PS is a better gaming console. When did I say that the XBOX is bad?
 

petvas

macrumors 603
Jul 20, 2006
5,479
1,808
Munich, Germany

Microsoft makes a lot of things good. I enjoy using their enterprise products. I am an Exchange Server specialist...(so much for hating them)

Losing the mobile wars affects the desktop in ways you cannot imagine. There is a whole new generation of people that will become the next workforce, that is used to using Android software and Apple, and not Microsoft. Microsoft knows this danger and that is one of the main drivers for their efforts. Office (which is the best productivity software available) could be in danger, because people can use Google Docs or other software to accomplish their job.
That is what Microsoft sees as a threat and they know that they must do something about it.

I don't hate Microsoft, I am just not happy with many of their choices the last ten years, also in the enterprise where I work for. They removed products from their offering like TMG and the whole Forefront line, giving us nothing better and are trying to force us into the cloud. Microsoft IT Pros feel left alone, abandoned by MS and its direction. These are facts that cannot be changed and people need to a) comply or b) find another platform to support as IT Pros..
All these things show how Microsoft things. It might be ok for many but not for me.

Having said that I really believe Windows 10 will be a big success, but mostly among users already using Windows (which is not a bad thing)
 

tdale

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2013
1,293
77
Christchurch, N.Z.
I am sorry but I have to say this. Fanboy alarm.

You have no clue what you are saying. Who said that I hate the XBOX? I just said that I prefer the PlayStation and that the PS is a better gaming console. When did I say that the XBOX is bad?

In the quote you did of my post, where is Xbox mentioned?

Fanboy alert? Me? Incorrect. I am an Apple fan, I can see the pros and cons of the varying platforms, and i can criticise all, or praise all, as I am not a fanboy of any, but a fan of one, and a user of the other. So I see things quite clear, no rose coloured glasses.

You my friend, are the fanboy, your bias of pro Apple is clear, and the negating of Microsoft is also clear. That bias affects your accuracy. The difference is this is not an Apple vs Microsoft issue, as I use and really like Apple gear, but I can recognise what positives MS are doing, and Im not making rash comments, or opinions stated as facts.
 

petvas

macrumors 603
Jul 20, 2006
5,479
1,808
Munich, Germany
In the quote you did of my post, where is Xbox mentioned?

Fanboy alert? Me? Incorrect. I am an Apple fan, I can see the pros and cons of the varying platforms, and i can criticise all, or praise all, as I am not a fanboy of any, but a fan of one, and a user of the other. So I see things quite clear, no rose coloured glasses.

You my friend, are the fanboy, your bias of pro Apple is clear, and the negating of Microsoft is also clear. That bias affects your accuracy. The difference is this is not an Apple vs Microsoft issue, as I use and really like Apple gear, but I can recognise what positives MS are doing, and Im not making rash comments, or opinions stated as facts.

Maybe you are not a fanboy, but I am not either..

Let me give you an example of Apple critic..Yesterday I migrated my iCloud account to my hosted Exchange (I use Office 365 from Microsoft...If I hated them I wouldn't pay them - I just believe their mail is the best). I had to use Outlook 2013 on my VM in order to copy all mails to my new mailbox.
The mail.app from Apple sucks so much that it couldn't reliably do that. This issue has been existing for years and Apple has done nothing to resolve it. I won't even start talking about how bad their Exchange support is..
I do not adore Apple, I just believe that in general they offer the best computing environment for me.
Another example the unreliable network daemon in Yosemite which causes my AppleTV not to connect to my iTunes unless I reboot my Mac. Also unacceptable..


The XBOX comment was quoted right, the Macrumors forum software cut it though..
 

tdale

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2013
1,293
77
Christchurch, N.Z.
Microsoft makes a lot of things good. I enjoy using their enterprise products. I am an Exchange Server specialist...(so much for hating them)

Losing the mobile wars affects the desktop in ways you cannot imagine. There is a whole new generation of people that will become the next workforce, that is used to using Android software and Apple, and not Microsoft. Microsoft knows this danger and that is one of the main drivers for their efforts. Office (which is the best productivity software available) could be in danger, because people can use Google Docs or other software to accomplish their job.
That is what Microsoft sees as a threat and they know that they must do something about it.

I don't hate Microsoft, I am just not happy with many of their choices the last ten years, also in the enterprise where I work for. They removed products from their offering like TMG and the whole Forefront line, giving us nothing better and are trying to force us into the cloud. Microsoft IT Pros feel left alone, abandoned by MS and its direction. These are facts that cannot be changed and people need to a) comply or b) find another platform to support as IT Pros..
All these things show how Microsoft things. It might be ok for many but not for me.

Having said that I really believe Windows 10 will be a big success, but mostly among users already using Windows (which is not a bad thing)

I am finding your post a bit disjointed. The mobile wars comment seems non answered, but I'll try to reply.

Ive been out of MS networking for some time so I accept what you say re that.

Mobile wars. As newbies use Apple and Google for their mobile device will mean they will use Apple desktop solutions, i.e. OS X and Google services for integration? Well, MS is not in the mobile wars. Years went by like that. It made no difference. It didn't even help Apple grow its desktop PC's, they have hovered around the same market share over the years. Id have expected that to grow, it hasn't. Finally MS joined the mobile wars as you put it, although they haven't really, as the mobile wars are over. Everyone who wants a phone or tablet has one. A few percent use Windows Phones. This hasn't really changed, might be circa 3%. IMO desktop use is unaffected by mobile usage. There are more Apple users using PC's than Macs. Windows phone users will use what they currently use, which will be PC's. Nothing will change.If Google had a valid desktop OS and business network solution, then you would have a point, but they don't. MS rules the world, Windows is the default OS, Its the default and only business network solution, so that will continue. OS X will retain its low market share, although thats higher then the 6% or whatever it is, once you factor out business Windows installations.

So, users on ant platform will use whatever OS suits, iOS users will use PC and Macs, Android users will use PC's, Winmobile users will use what they use now, PCs and Macs.

Office is in danger of Google Docs? Cannot ever see that.

W10 will be a success as its W8+Start Menu+Integration, more so, everyone is now used to the tile UI which is what W8 fell apart on. On a tech forum I am on, IT Pros were 50/50 love/hate Windows 8. Why? Its actually Win 7 with Metro, and other under the hood enhancements, so its better than 7. The haters were due to tiles, and no Start menu. Thats it. The lovers accepted the UI as a change, after all you can go to desktop mode, you can install Start8, you can hide Metro and therefore use the effective Win7+. W10 will succeed for these reasons, some of which are bogus due to human nature.

1. They are used to the tile UI now
2. Its got the proper Start Menu
3. Its 10, not 8, so it MUST be great.
4. It adds integration to use part of Apples model
5. Its free, for now, and when its not it will be cheaper I expect.
6. Its the latest and greatest Windows

If they can ask/persuade/force devs to dev for W10 mobile, that will grow, mainly from Android. Then Google will fade back to search and cloud and a sound OS for cheap phones, and a few highend phones

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Maybe you are not a fanboy, but I am not either..

Let me give you an example of Apple critic..Yesterday I migrated my iCloud account to my hosted Exchange (I use Office 365 from Microsoft...If I hated them I wouldn't pay them - I just believe their mail is the best). I had to use Outlook 2013 on my VM in order to copy all mails to my new mailbox.
The mail.app from Apple sucks so much that it couldn't reliably do that. This issue has been existing for years and Apple has done nothing to resolve it. I won't even start talking about how bad their Exchange support is..
I do not adore Apple, I just believe that in general they offer the best computing environment for me.
Another example the unreliable network daemon in Yosemite which causes my AppleTV not to connect to my iTunes unless I reboot my Mac. Also unacceptable..


The XBOX comment was quoted right, the Macrumors forum software cut it though..

Well you have consistently criticised MS from day one, consistently. More so, Windows. I repeat consistently, as is expected from any Apple fanboy, or and Android fanboy if this thread was about Apple, as happens here often

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Maybe you are not a fanboy, but I am not either..

Let me give you an example of Apple critic..Yesterday I migrated my iCloud account to my hosted Exchange (I use Office 365 from Microsoft...If I hated them I wouldn't pay them - I just believe their mail is the best). I had to use Outlook 2013 on my VM in order to copy all mails to my new mailbox.
The mail.app from Apple sucks so much that it couldn't reliably do that. This issue has been existing for years and Apple has done nothing to resolve it. I won't even start talking about how bad their Exchange support is..
I do not adore Apple, I just believe that in general they offer the best computing environment for me.
Another example the unreliable network daemon in Yosemite which causes my AppleTV not to connect to my iTunes unless I reboot my Mac. Also unacceptable..


The XBOX comment was quoted right, the Macrumors forum software cut it though..

Use another mail.app. Many complain about some default apps, they don't have to be used, but some users feel the need to as its default or Apple, thats how I see it. Same with iPhoto and what will be Photos, however that turns out, w can use Photos or LR
 

petvas

macrumors 603
Jul 20, 2006
5,479
1,808
Munich, Germany
I am finding your post a bit disjointed. The mobile wars comment seems non answered, but I'll try to reply.

Ive been out of MS networking for some time so I accept what you say re that.

Mobile wars. As newbies use Apple and Google for their mobile device will mean they will use Apple desktop solutions, i.e. OS X and Google services for integration? Well, MS is not in the mobile wars. Years went by like that. It made no difference. It didn't even help Apple grow its desktop PC's, they have hovered around the same market share over the years. Id have expected that to grow, it hasn't. Finally MS joined the mobile wars as you put it, although they haven't really, as the mobile wars are over. Everyone who wants a phone or tablet has one. A few percent use Windows Phones. This hasn't really changed, might be circa 3%. IMO desktop use is unaffected by mobile usage. There are more Apple users using PC's than Macs. Windows phone users will use what they currently use, which will be PC's. Nothing will change.If Google had a valid desktop OS and business network solution, then you would have a point, but they don't. MS rules the world, Windows is the default OS, Its the default and only business network solution, so that will continue. OS X will retain its low market share, although thats higher then the 6% or whatever it is, once you factor out business Windows installations.

So, users on ant platform will use whatever OS suits, iOS users will use PC and Macs, Android users will use PC's, Winmobile users will use what they use now, PCs and Macs.

Office is in danger of Google Docs? Cannot ever see that.

W10 will be a success as its W8+Start Menu+Integration, more so, everyone is now used to the tile UI which is what W8 fell apart on. On a tech forum I am on, IT Pros were 50/50 love/hate Windows 8. Why? Its actually Win 7 with Metro, and other under the hood enhancements, so its better than 7. The haters were due to tiles, and no Start menu. Thats it. The lovers accepted the UI as a change, after all you can go to desktop mode, you can install Start8, you can hide Metro and therefore use the effective Win7+. W10 will succeed for these reasons, some of which are bogus due to human nature.

1. They are used to the tile UI now
2. Its got the proper Start Menu
3. Its 10, not 8, so it MUST be great.
4. It adds integration to use part of Apples model
5. Its free, for now, and when its not it will be cheaper I expect.
6. Its the latest and greatest Windows

If they can ask/persuade/force devs to dev for W10 mobile, that will grow, mainly from Android. Then Google will fade back to search and cloud and a sound OS for cheap phones, and a few highend phones

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Well you have consistently criticised MS from day one, consistently. More so, Windows. I repeat consistently, as is expected from any Apple fanboy, or and Android fanboy if this thread was about Apple, as happens here often

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Use another mail.app. Many complain about some default apps, they don't have to be used, but some users feel the need to as its default or Apple, thats how I see it. Same with iPhoto and what will be Photos, however that turns out, w can use Photos or LR

I use Outlook now..

I am criticizing Microsoft because I still see things that they must improve. Their vision is good, but I have doubts how well they can execute as a company. Maybe Ballmer did that to the company and Satya will give them this excellence back.
 
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tdale

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2013
1,293
77
Christchurch, N.Z.
I use Outlook now..

I am criticizing Microsoft because I still things that they must improve. Their vision is good, but I have doubts how well they can execute as a company. Maybe Ballmer did that to the company and Satya will give them this excellence back.

Windows 10
Unified across device types
Integration

Its all there apart from the mobile app store, I'd expect him to revitalise that in some way with the devs. Then if that does occur, Apple and MS will be quite similar, offering a full device integrated solution, as does Apple. The notable differences will be Apples phone market being bigger, tablet market to be decided, MS having the dominant OS market, and off course the much debated full hybrid vs separate "lite" mobile device OS.

The move as more Android manufactures move faster to add Windows Mobile should start occurring before long.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,489
43,414
I use Outlook now..

I am criticizing Microsoft because I still see things that they must improve. Their vision is good, but I have doubts how well they can execute as a company. Maybe Ballmer did that to the company and Satya will give them this excellence back.

Overall, I've been very pleased with what's been coming out of Redmond. I like the directions and we'll have to wait and see what really comes in terms of release code.

Tbh, I have more confidence in MS rolling out a less buggy OS then Apple at this point. Apple seems to be racing to roll out a new upgrade every year with lots of new features. This reportedly bit them in the behind with Yosemite.
 

petvas

macrumors 603
Jul 20, 2006
5,479
1,808
Munich, Germany
Overall, I've been very pleased with what's been coming out of Redmond. I like the directions and we'll have to wait and see what really comes in terms of release code.

Tbh, I have more confidence in MS rolling out a less buggy OS then Apple at this point. Apple seems to be racing to roll out a new upgrade every year with lots of new features. This reportedly bit them in the behind with Yosemite.

I don't like Apple's current pace at releasing new OSes. I think every other year would be better.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,489
43,414
I don't like Apple's current pace at releasing new OSes. I think every other year would be better.

Agreed, and hopefully the amount of negativity we see coming, will give Apple pause and let them re-evaluate their current model.

My point though is not knocking apple but contrasting them with MS, and I think right now, 2015 Microsoft is rolling out some products that appear to be a less buggy or put another way. More finished.
 

petvas

macrumors 603
Jul 20, 2006
5,479
1,808
Munich, Germany
Agreed, and hopefully the amount of negativity we see coming, will give Apple pause and let them re-evaluate their current model.

My point though is not knocking apple but contrasting them with MS, and I think right now, 2015 Microsoft is rolling out some products that appear to be a less buggy or put another way. More finished.

We don't know that yet. Let's wait for the final release..
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,489
43,414
We don't know that yet. Let's wait for the final release..

I disagree, its only my opinion but so far MS has some things that are nicely positioned.

Will it be bug free, no, but I think the windows 8.1 is a good sign when it rolled out. A solid and major update. WP8.1 is another good example, though in the same vein, just in the mobility sector.

On the hardware side, the Surface Pro 3 is a really good product that is gaining in popularity. While it did have some issues early on, MS has already addressed those issues.

I stand by my opinion that I have more confidence in MS right now.
 

petvas

macrumors 603
Jul 20, 2006
5,479
1,808
Munich, Germany
I disagree, its only my opinion but so far MS has some things that are nicely positioned.

Will it be bug free, no, but I think the windows 8.1 is a good sign when it rolled out. A solid and major update. WP8.1 is another good example, though in the same vein, just in the mobility sector.

On the hardware side, the Surface Pro 3 is a really good product that is gaining in popularity. While it did have some issues early on, MS has already addressed those issues.

I stand by my opinion that I have more confidence in MS right now.

It's just an impression you have. Let's wait and see what happens.
 

Keirasplace

macrumors 601
Aug 6, 2014
4,059
1,278
Montreal
Agreed, and hopefully the amount of negativity we see coming, will give Apple pause and let them re-evaluate their current model.

My point though is not knocking apple but contrasting them with MS, and I think right now, 2015 Microsoft is rolling out some products that appear to be a less buggy or put another way. More finished.

I agree Windows 8 is much better than past Windows releases, but calling it less buggy is a HOOT.

HAve you ever looked out how many security bug fixes (and other fixes) MS gets in one year. If you let them be installed automatically, you may not notice it. But, go in settings and look at the insane list of bug fixes... Almost endless.

I've got a major outstanding bug with MS (brings done my network every 3-5 days, some kind of memory leak), for more than a year and it is still not fixed.
 

Renzatic

Suspended
HAve you ever looked out how many security bug fixes (and other fixes) MS gets in one year. If you let them be installed automatically, you may not notice it. But, go in settings and look at the insane list of bug fixes... Almost endless.

Yeah, there are a ton, but I wouldn't hold it against anyone. OSes are very complicated things, comprised of about 10,000 moving parts. Even the most competent developer in the world won't be able to ferret out even a 20th of the attack vector in their OS until it's been out in the wild for awhile.

Even Apple has a list of security patches about as long as your arm.

Same with Ubuntu and other Linux distros.

Hell, I had to wade through 700 meg of updates when I installed Fedora 21 on my parent's computer about a week ago.

MS hardly stands alone on this. The only reason people notice them more is because MS is the only company of the bunch that doesn't roll a constantly up to date iso for people to download. When you install Windows, you'll end up patching in YEARS of security updates right from the start.
 

Truffy

macrumors 6502a
It's a reputation patch, much like 7 was for Vista. Even if IE is pretty decent these days, the name has garnered such a bad reputation over the years, they might as well scrap it entirely and start from scratch.
So have they divorced the browser from the OS and done away with active X? Because those were the primary reasons that, from a security perspective, IE has such a bad rep.
 

Renzatic

Suspended
So have they divorced the browser from the OS and done away with active X? Because those were the primary reasons that, from a security perspective, IE has such a bad rep.

I'm thinking so. Everything I've heard about Spartan points towards it being WinRT based, light on resources, and no ActiveX whatsoever. The only thing it's keeping from IE is the rendering and javascript engine, and even that's a fork from that base.
 

tdale

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2013
1,293
77
Christchurch, N.Z.
I just watched a short release video on Win 10.

Hey Cortana Hey Siri? This is new and exciting, cept its been done
Swiping email Also in OSX/iOS
Photos App Got Collections, albums, as does OS X/iOS, looks similar
Xbox play on PC Very cool
Other cool stuff too

My local forum has a couple of MS guys, more to come as well. I wonder if more Apple ideas? I recently mentioned that Apple and MS getting close, closer than I thought, but I do see that as a good thing, as one gets ideas, the other picks them up. It will go both ways

Interesting!
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,329
7,421
I just watched a short release video on Win 10.

Hey Cortana Hey Siri? This is new and exciting, cept its been done
Swiping email Also in OSX/iOS
Photos App Got Collections, albums, as does OS X/iOS, looks similar
Xbox play on PC Very cool
Other cool stuff too

My local forum has a couple of MS guys, more to come as well. I wonder if more Apple ideas? I recently mentioned that Apple and MS getting close, closer than I thought, but I do see that as a good thing, as one gets ideas, the other picks them up. It will go both ways

Interesting!

Hey Cortana will likely be useful, as it can be more used away from a power supply at his point.
 
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