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Old Oct 20, 2010, 05:52 PM   #1
Big Dave
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IOS Lion is a warning of bad things to come.

I don't usually whine but here goes:
I think that Steve is steadily turning Macs from tools to toys. The app store on the Mac is one step in my opinion to take away the ability to develop your own tools. This might be a stretch, but think about how locked down the iPhone and iPad are. It won't be long until the Mac is on lockdown too. The terminal is on the endangered list in my opinion.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 05:59 PM   #2
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When it comes to that point jump ship. Developers don't have to distribute in the app store. Tools-toys... Not sure I agree, but that is my opinion. Sure there are limitations on all of the Apple products due to locked abilities. That has not stopped developers to continue developing backwoods and sought after options for the end user. If people want it developers will create options to make it happen.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 06:10 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
I don't usually whine but here goes:
I think that Steve is steadily turning Macs from tools to toys. The app store on the Mac is one step in my opinion to take away the ability to develop your own tools. This might be a stretch, but think about how locked down the iPhone and iPad are. It won't be long until the Mac is on lockdown too. The terminal is on the endangered list in my opinion.
Maybe I'm being short sighted but I don't agree. The iDevices are locked down mostly due to cell network restrictions. So far Macs don't have built in cell antennas so there is no reason to lock them down. That may happen in the future but Macs and OS X will have to really change before Apple will be able to lock them down like they did with the iDevices.


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Originally Posted by NicoleRichie View Post
Sure there are limitations on all of the Apple products due to locked abilities. That has not stopped developers to continue developing backwoods and sought after options for the end user. If people want it developers will create options to make it happen.
Good point. As an example think of SIMBL plugins. Apple doesn't like or recommend them but they're still out there.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 06:12 PM   #4
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This is how they see it.

If the user wants to have access to tools like the terminal and can't easily get to it, they have failed.
If the user doesn't want said access and can't get away from it, they have failed.

It's a balance. So long as the tools are there for the people who want them, they're still doing things right, by their definition and mine.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 07:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
I don't usually whine but here goes:
I think that Steve is steadily turning Macs from tools to toys. The app store on the Mac is one step in my opinion to take away the ability to develop your own tools. This might be a stretch, but think about how locked down the iPhone and iPad are. It won't be long until the Mac is on lockdown too. The terminal is on the endangered list in my opinion.
Right, because everyone knows you won't be able to install things from anywhere other than the mac store.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 07:16 PM   #6
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As long as the option is still there, the Mac App store is the best thing Apple has done in a long time.

It is another step to getting macs into the hands of people with no real computer experience. May not make developers and programmers happy, but Aunt Sally and Grandpa Jones just got a big leap into the mac world with very little effort.

This will drive mac sales, no doubt about it.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 07:17 PM   #7
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Right, because everyone knows you won't be able to install things from anywhere other than the mac store.
Yeah, just like we cant install anything but App Store apps on the iPhone.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:05 PM   #8
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Yeah, just like we cant install anything but App Store apps on the iPhone.
Mac != iphone.

An iPhone simply isn't an actual computer (in the sense we think of them anyway)

Do you guys really believe that apple would EVER try to implement such a stupid rule? No amount of PR spending would keep the press from ripping them to shreds.

Common sense.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:27 PM   #9
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People who see this as a terrible future are forgetting onething....
3rd party software. Apple only provides so much them selves (iLife, iwork... various included apps).

3rd party software for both iPhone and mac is created on..... You guessed it...... A mac.

If apple was to "close" the OS in the way many people are fearing, that would be the end of the app store. Developers will not develop...... correct that, Developers CAN NOT make applications on a platform that does not provide certain low level access.

So think about it, how can apple create this "closed" system and still have a successful 3rd party appstore... They cant.

That is why there will always be a true UNIX OS for us to use. The fun, user friendly (maybe even toy like) iOS features will only be a layer ONTOP of OSX.. Additional feature, not replacement features.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:30 PM   #10
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Maybe we should wait and see how Apple handles this before we judge? It could simply be one more channel to app delivery rather than the channel.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:32 PM   #11
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Maybe we should wait and see how Apple handles this before we judge? It could simply be one more channel to app delivery rather than the channel.
No no no no no. That would be reasonable.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:42 PM   #12
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I see the progression,
10.7 app store optional
10.8 app store mandatory

Generally speaking I'm very unhappy with the focus and direction of apple is going these days.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:42 PM   #13
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i dont see how apple giving you another option is bad
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:43 PM   #14
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i dont see how apple giving you another option is bad
Today its another option, tomorrow its the only option. Apple has never been about choice and now the closed walled garden of iOS has arrived to OSX
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:44 PM   #15
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The iDevices are locked down mostly due to cell network restrictions.
Comically incorrect.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:49 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by maflynn View Post
Today its another option, tomorrow its the only option. Apple has never been about choice and now the closed walled garden of iOS has arrived to OSX
That would put an end to any 3rd party support from developers.. With out 3rd party, there is no applications. With out applications there are no customers.

It just isn't logical to close off a system that has to be open for their whole app infrastructure to thrive.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:52 PM   #17
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I'm not about to go negative on something that is still an unknown for the most part.

Yes, I watched the presentation live on my MBP today, so I saw it all, yet you never know just how things are going to shake out.

Change is never well excepted by those with closed minds.

I choose to be positive, find the good side of things and if it goes the other direction there are lots of options out there.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 08:52 PM   #18
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That would put an end to any 3rd party support from developers..
What are you talking about?
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 09:00 PM   #19
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What are you talking about?
I will give an example.

I am making a game for iPhone, I use multiple applications. Some of these applications that I use to create the assets for this game would not fall under apples approved apps for a mac appstore.

If I can not use these applications on a mac I will be forced to run a different operating system. I can not create applications for iPhone in windows or linux. So I can not develop for an iPhone.


There are a lot of applications developers rely on. Many of these applications will not be allowed in the mac app store. Denying developers the applications they require to populate the appstore... means less apps across the whole apple line (ipods, iPhone,iPad, macs).
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 11:09 PM   #20
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They should have a 2 tiered system where, like the development tools, power-users can access the fully functioned system if they want and have another OS for general consumption.

I think "finder" has always been clumsy to use. I use Spotlight about 80% of the time. I don't even have any icons on my dock.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 11:19 PM   #21
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I will give an example.

I am making a game for iPhone, I use multiple applications. Some of these applications that I use to create the assets for this game would not fall under apples approved apps for a mac appstore.

If I can not use these applications on a mac I will be forced to run a different operating system. I can not create applications for iPhone in windows or linux. So I can not develop for an iPhone.


There are a lot of applications developers rely on. Many of these applications will not be allowed in the mac app store. Denying developers the applications they require to populate the appstore... means less apps across the whole apple line (ipods, iPhone,iPad, macs).
I completely agree VPrime. I hope those who are worried realize where all this Apple magic and 3rd party software comes from. As long as software and hardware exists, there will be professional tools to build them. These tools require in-depth knowledge and system access for the user.
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Old Oct 20, 2010, 11:22 PM   #22
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I can't wait for installous OSX
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Old Oct 21, 2010, 12:17 AM   #23
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What's even scarier, after digesting all the information from yesterday's hubbub, is what OS 11 may someday look like, if Apple keeps this iOS shenanigan up on the Mac...
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Old Oct 21, 2010, 12:44 AM   #24
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smart little hackers will figure it out...

We will always be able to jailbreak the mac os because hackers will get root access and will unlock it.

They jailbroke the iPad in less than 24 hours.
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Old Oct 21, 2010, 12:59 AM   #25
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I doubt it. Instead of thinking of the negatives, how about the positives? Many people I know (my age, older and senior citizens) would benefit from the Mac App Store. It won't be the only way to install apps, it's a compliment to that. I know Adobe, Microsoft, AutoDesk, VMWare and even Apple's own Pro apps won't be in the Mac App Store. The Mac App Store is for consumers. Not tech geeks like you and me. It's easier to discover new apps and get updates. It's the last little thing that kind of bugs me. Prosumers will still be able to install and use their stuff unhindered. Apple just made things easier for regular consumers, which is a GOOD thing. Apple used to be more "exclusive" but is opening up a bit towards the consumer market.
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