1 Month In - Thinking of going MBP

[ZipZap]

Why so bitter? I don't know about you, but I have yet to find any "perfect" product of any type from any manufacturer. Its always a compromise. The manufacturer makes what they think people will buy (as their business is selling products, not pissing off customers and not selling products). Some manufacturers are more or less successful and some individual products or features are more or less successful.

Given Apple's market shares have been generally increasing over many years for every product line they have, I'd tend to put them into the "successful" category. They are not without their failures, but they've mostly had successes. No one is forcing people to buy their products. Their hundreds of millions of customers aren't all brainwashed drones under Apples mind control machines ;-)

Like many, all I really wanted was an evolutionary 11.6" MBA with a 12" retina screen in it. Instead we got a revolutionary 12" rMB chock full of new and unproven (bleeding edge?) technology. It's sure not a machine for everyone. In my case, I was willing to take the risk of a new generation product and as it turns out this is a pretty good compromise for me. For many, it's not and they will either not purchase it in the first place, or return it. Not sure why Apple did what they did - I expect there was no way to get a larger retina screen in the MBA without making either battery life or cpu compromises they thought would hurt sales. So instead they tested the waters with a whole new product. Not sure how successful it will be, but given the wait times its likely more successful than Apple thought it would be.

For those wanting an ultra compact machine with a retina screen where the rMB won't do what they need it to do, there will be disappointment. Hopefully technology will catch up with those needs in a new model of something. But don't say its a POS and no good for anyone just because its not good for you. Sales and many happy folks on this forum clearly paints a different picture.

Perfect actually does exist. iMac 5K.

 

[Wallabe]

Just received my MacBook from MacMall instead of waiting 3-5 weeks from Apple. I use a iMac as my full time photography editing studio. Planning on using the MacBook to import photos in the field and do some light editing with Lightroom.

So far I think its going to work out. Lightroom is performing pretty good.

Thanks for mentioning MacMall. They have the one I want in stock. Just ordered and cancelled my Apple.com order.

 

[shenan1982]

There was no mistakes with the MBA. Apple learned that they can slowly move to the ideal version and in the process generate tons of revenue.

So technically the executives did learn.

The weird thing is with each new product line, it's as if Apple "forgets" what it learned from the trials and error of the previous release. The Macbook team clearly didn't look back to the Mac release team to see what went right, what went wrong. The iPhone (logistics) team this year didn't look back to what went right\wrong last year with the launch. The Watch folks clearly didn't look at previous product launches to see how people like to buy. My guess is Apple has become very compartmentalized.

I just learned from a friend that works there how many people they have working on their projects that aren't even Apple Employees. It's said that as many as half of Cupertino's employees are contract employees (via Modis\Xerox\etc).... many of whom are in product design, testing, development, etc. That seems troubling. It's a practice becoming more and more common in the industry because it avoids the expense of health care and makes it easy to adjust staffing levels as needed quickly. The downside is you get product fragmentation like we're seeing. The employees working there on a project today don't have the experience of projects past. Not trying to be political here, just pointing out an observation from knowing a couple people there, 1 of which is a contract employee.

Either way, your comment about Apple learning and slowly moving toward the ideal version disturbs me on several levels. I'm paying $1600 to be a tester. That's not right. And it really scares me for Apple's future in laptops knowing the Macbook Pro is getting to the age where they normally do a dramatic physical re-design.. and seeing the choices they've made for consumers lately both in product design, and fulfillment methods, I'm a bit scared for the professionals and prosumer base.

 

[shenan1982]

Perfect actually does exist. iMac 5K.

I'd agree except for the fact that my iMac 5k (that I just got and am loving) is all glued shut so it's technically not user serviceable. I'd LOVE if it had the magnetic flip down screen like the previous gen. I'd be itching to tear the thing open and throw in a 1TB SSD to replace the fusion. Then it would be absolute perfection.

 

[jimboutilier]

Perfect actually does exist. iMac 5K.

lol - yeah, well my backpack isn't that big and the generator is really heavy when I'm traveling, so still not ideal for me ;-)

OTOH - my MacMini is aging and Apple isn't putting QuadCores in their new mini's at present, so the iMac may be a contender when it comes time to replace my mini.

 

[sfwalter]

So I'm on my fourth day of owning this little netbook and I'm quickly falling in love with it. The sluggish performance I was noticing is all but gone and I'm really liking the keyboard.

Very initial impressions, but this MacBook seems to suit my needs almost perfectly.

How is the sluggish performance that you were noticing is gone?

 

[shenan1982]

How is the sluggish performance that you were noticing is gone?

I think people are just getting used to it being a slower computer, or are coming from slower computers. Anyone who has recently used a 2014 or 2015 macbook Pro or Macbook Air and then picks up a rMB will not be able to dispute the fact that web pages load slower, movies take an extra second to open, apps bounce a couple times before opening, the boot time is significantly longer... it's just a slower experience. I love the design, but I can't say I love my rMB :-( (having come from a 2014 Macbook Air ultimate)

 

[boltjames]

How is the sluggish performance that you were noticing is gone?

It's not sluggish. The RMB is a screamer, it's a fantastic notebook.

BJ

 

[jimboutilier]

How is the sluggish performance that you were noticing is gone?

When you first configure your new rMB (or any MAC) there are often a number of background tasks going on for some time (several hours to even a day or more). These are things like cloud syncing with services like dropbox, icloud, itunes etc. Or spotlight reindexing your drive or file-vault encrypting your drive or Time Machine backing up your drive. While these things are going on, your rMB may seem laggy or sluggish. Once they are done and all of the CPU is available for foreground tasks the rMB speeds up considerably.

I really don't think it's people getting used to it. I know my rMB was sluggish for several hours after I completed my install and configuration. You can take a look in Activity Monitor to see how busy your CPU is and what's using it. During the "sluggish" period my idle system was often between 20% and 40% CPU activity. During that time I saw a lot of bounces and beachballs starting programs, slow, jerky window operations, and generally slow program operation. After several hours my CPU dropped to 5% or so and the machine ran faster with no beachballs, bounces, window or program slowness.

Graphics seemed snappier than my MBA and bursty activity was also generally faster, with only sustained heavy loads highlighting the more limited CPU (and then only by about 15%).

But folks coming from newer/faster machines may notice the difference more, or some folks are just more sensitive to slight differences in performance or behavior.

 

[Queen6]

I think people are just getting used to it being a slower computer, or are coming from slower computers. Anyone who has recently used a 2014 or 2015 macbook Pro or Macbook Air and then picks up a rMB will not be able to dispute the fact that web pages load slower, movies take an extra second to open, apps bounce a couple times before opening, the boot time is significantly longer... it's just a slower experience. I love the design, but I can't say I love my rMB :-( (having come from a 2014 Macbook Air ultimate)

That`s not entirely my experience sitting here now with a 2014, 2.8Ghz 8Gb, 512 13" rMBP & 2015, 1.2, 8Gb, 512 SSD 12" rMB side by side opening the same applications & web pages, with both Notebook`s having much the same software. The difference in application opening time is virtually imperceptible, nor does the rMBP consistently outrun the rMB. Both are on the same network, working through the same VPN. Opening an 18Gb plus movie performance is identical, as is cycling through iTunes.

From my observations the Core opens applications no slower than the i5, however it uses significantly less CPU frequency & power (W) to achieve the same goals, opening applications both windowed & fullscreen. Frankly there is no real world difference. of course if you then continue to push the rMB with a CPU intensive application it will of course clock down to remain in the thermal envelope, which is to be expected.

I can safely say that there is no lag in the rMB`s operation of opening applications as neither system is consistently faster than the other, any perceived lag is from the mistiming of hitting the trackpad/keyboard. When opening cascading applications such as Microsoft Word with multiple documents the rMBP does gain ground, equally this is literally a spilt second.

I didn't consider looking at the rMB & the rMBP`s in any detailed comparison as, the rMB performance has been adequate so far, and to me it`s given the Retina MacBook is not the "weapon of choice" to transcode your video collection with HandBrake

I haven't looked at boot times etc as they are moot in the real world of Mac usage, give the majority of only reboot when a major system update is released, equally I will have a look just to see how the rMB fares. In this case I would expect the 13" Retina MacBook Pro to pass the "tape" first, equally from what I have looked at tonight in direct compassion the Retina MacBook will be right on it`s heels


Q-6

 

[jimboutilier]

I think people are just getting used to it being a slower computer, or are coming from slower computers. Anyone who has recently used a 2014 or 2015 macbook Pro or Macbook Air and then picks up a rMB will not be able to dispute the fact that web pages load slower, movies take an extra second to open, apps bounce a couple times before opening, the boot time is significantly longer... it's just a slower experience. I love the design, but I can't say I love my rMB :-( (having come from a 2014 Macbook Air ultimate)

I'm afraid I do dispute those things with respect to a 2014 MBA. I'm coming from an ultimate 2013 MBA (which is identical to an ultimate 2014 MBA from a hardware perspective). Other than those first few hours, I've never seen a beachball or app bounce. Graphics is faster on the rMB and bursty activities appear as fast or faster (I don't have anything I can use to measure these as they are too short a duration but in visual side by side comparisons the rMB seems as fast or faster). I only notice the speed difference under sustained heavy load (and that I've measured at about 15%). My rMB 1.3 is running 10.10.3 and my screen resolution is set to standard. I always have dropbox and McAfee AV (work) running in the background. Both machines have identical software and configs (except where hardware may require a difference). My ambient room temperature is 20C.

I'm not saying you are not experiencing what you say you are, but rather not everyone has that experience. Maybe there is a hardware or config or software issue with your rMB. Or in this day and age of binned CPU's maybe you have a particularly fast MBA and a particularly slow rMB. Just keep in mind that your experience can't be extrapolated to everyone else.

 

[shenan1982]

It's not sluggish. The RMB is a screamer, it's a fantastic notebook.

BJ

There's nobody that says it's a screamer, that's simply delusional.

It's adequate, at best. "Fast" isn't an adjective for the rMB. If you think it is, you may want to try ANY other computer in Apple's lineup and then you'll feel different.

 

[shenan1982]

That`s not entirely my experience sitting here now with a 2014, 2.8Ghz 8Gb, 512 13" rMBP & 2015, 1.2, 8Gb, 512 SSD 12" rMB side by side opening the same applications & web pages, with both Notebook`s having much the same software. The difference in application opening time is virtually imperceptible, nor does the rMBP consistently outrun the rMB. Both are on the same network, working through the same VPN. Opening an 18Gb plus movie performance is identical, as is cycling through iTunes.

From my observations the Core opens applications no slower than the i5, however it uses significantly less CPU frequency & power (W) to achieve the same goals, opening applications both windowed & fullscreen. Frankly there is no real world difference. of course if you then continue to push the rMB with a CPU intensive application it will of course clock down to remain in the thermal envelope, which is to be expected.

I can safely say that there is no lag in the rMB`s operation of opening applications as neither system is consistently faster than the other, any perceived lag is from the mistiming of hitting the trackpad/keyboard. When opening cascading applications such as Microsoft Word with multiple documents the rMBP does gain ground, equally this is literally a spilt second.

I didn't consider looking at the rMB & the rMBP`s in any detailed comparison as, the rMB performance has been adequate so far, and to me it`s given the Retina MacBook is not the "weapon of choice" to transcode your video collection with HandBrake

I haven't looked at boot times etc as they are moot in the real world of Mac usage, give the majority of only reboot when a major system update is released, equally I will have a look just to see how the rMB fares. In this case I would expect the 13" Retina MacBook Pro to pass the "tape" first, equally from what I have looked at tonight in direct compassion the Retina MacBook will be right on it`s heels


Q-6

Don't mean to be rude, but to be blunt, if you have no perceptible difference in performance between a 1.2ghz rMB and a 2.8 ghz rMBP, there's either something wrong with your rMBP, or something wrong with your eyes. ;-)

 

[shenan1982]

I'm afraid I do dispute those things with respect to a 2014 MBA. I'm coming from an ultimate 2013 MBA (which is identical to an ultimate 2014 MBA from a hardware perspective). Other than those first few hours, I've never seen a beachball or app bounce. Graphics is faster on the rMB and bursty activities appear as fast or faster (I don't have anything I can use to measure these as they are too short a duration but in visual side by side comparisons the rMB seems as fast or faster). I only notice the speed difference under sustained heavy load (and that I've measured at about 15%). My rMB 1.3 is running 10.10.3 and my screen resolution is set to standard. I always have dropbox and McAfee AV (work) running in the background. Both machines have identical software and configs (except where hardware may require a difference). My ambient room temperature is 20C.

I'm not saying you are not experiencing what you say you are, but rather not everyone has that experience. Maybe there is a hardware or config or software issue with your rMB. Or in this day and age of binned CPU's maybe you have a particularly fast MBA and a particularly slow rMB. Just keep in mind that your experience can't be extrapolated to everyone else.

I'm baffled as to the responses here. Not sure if it's just defense of one's purchase or what, but people are absolutely exaggerating the performance of their computers....

Macbook's CPU is inferior to Macbook Air
Macbook's vGPU is inferior to Macbook Air

I question anyone's statements that their macbook, with a significantly less powerful CPU, performs as well as their rMBP or their MBA. It defies all logic.

 

[shenan1982]

I'm coming from an ultimate 2013 MBA (which is identical to an ultimate 2014 MBA from a hardware perspective).

Yeah you know, the only difference is the processor... u know, just the single most impactful piece of the config to the overall performance. LOL *rolls eyes*

 

[JoePa2624]

When you first configure your new rMB (or any MAC) there are often a number of background tasks going on for some time (several hours to even a day or more). These are things like cloud syncing with services like dropbox, icloud, itunes etc. Or spotlight reindexing your drive or file-vault encrypting your drive or Time Machine backing up your drive. While these things are going on, your rMB may seem laggy or sluggish. Once they are done and all of the CPU is available for foreground tasks the rMB speeds up considerably.

I really don't think it's people getting used to it. I know my rMB was sluggish for several hours after I completed my install and configuration. You can take a look in Activity Monitor to see how busy your CPU is and what's using it. During the "sluggish" period my idle system was often between 20% and 40% CPU activity. During that time I saw a lot of bounces and beachballs starting programs, slow, jerky window operations, and generally slow program operation. After several hours my CPU dropped to 5% or so and the machine ran faster with no beachballs, bounces, window or program slowness.

Graphics seemed snappier than my MBA and bursty activity was also generally faster, with only sustained heavy loads highlighting the more limited CPU (and then only by about 15%).

But folks coming from newer/faster machines may notice the difference more, or some folks are just more sensitive to slight differences in performance or behavior.

This seems pretty accurate to my experience too. At first, when I'm assuming many things were updating, I had a fair amount of beachballs and the apps would bounce for many seconds when opened.

Now though, I'm not noticing any of that. I'm surprised by how snappy its performance is (most of the time). Don't get me wrong. It is nowhere near the speed of my 2015 i7 MBPr. But for what I need this thing to do, it's great so far.

I'm really becoming opposed to anybody that calls this ultrabook a Netbook (me included). It is a very capable machine. Yes, it could use more ports for a heavy user. But I'm not making any other sacrifices that I'm aware of.

 

[Dark Void]

I'm really becoming opposed to anybody that calls this laptop a Netbook (me included). It is a very capable machine. Yes, it could use more ports for a heavy user. But I'm not making any other sacrifices that I'm aware of.

It's an ultrabook.

In any case, I'm glad your purchase is working out for you.

 

[JoePa2624]

It's an ultrabook.

In any case, I'm glad your purchase is working out for you.

Fixed. My point remains the same though.

 

[shenan1982]

It's an ultrabook.

In any case, I'm glad your purchase is working out for you.

I don't like the term ultrabook any more than i like the term netbook. Ultra-what? Ultra powerful, or just ultra-light? It's the evolution of technology to become thinner and lighter, so assigning a term like ultrabook is dated. compared to the 2006 macbook pro, today's 13" macbook pro would have been called an ultrabook. LOL

 

[Dark Void]

I don't like the term ultrabook any more than i like the term netbook. Ultra-what? Ultra powerful, or just ultra-light? It's the evolution of technology to become thinner and lighter, so assigning a term like ultrabook is dated. compared to the 2006 macbook pro, today's 13" macbook pro would have been called an ultrabook. LOL

Understandable, and sorry JoePa2624, I wasn't trying to correct you in a rude way.

It can be extremely confusing. Ultrabooks are typically thin and portable, yet still functioning beyond daily use laptops. Netbooks was the term given to (typically) older windows laptops with lesser hardware at a cheap price point that lack a lot of connectivity and specifically an optical drive. Its purpose is basically to go on WiFi. Chromebooks basically killed netbooks though, although I had a netbook that I gave to my mother, which has been working for about 3 years now, and she uses it every single day. I like netbooks because they're expandable.

 

[jimboutilier]

Yeah you know, the only difference is the processor... u know, just the single most impactful piece of the config to the overall performance. LOL *rolls eyes*

You might want to dig into the specs of the 2013 vs 2014 ultimate MBA. There were NO hardware changes as the next generation processor was not ready when the new MBAs were released in 2014. Instead apple dropped the price.

 

[JoePa2624]

Understandable, and sorry JoePa2624, I wasn't trying to correct you in a rude way.

It can be extremely confusing. Ultrabooks are typically thin and portable, yet still functioning beyond daily use laptops. Netbooks was the term given to (typically) older windows laptops with lesser hardware at a cheap price point that lack a lot of connectivity and specifically an optical drive. Its purpose is basically to go on WiFi. Chromebooks basically killed netbooks though, although I had a netbook that I gave to my mother, which has been working for about 3 years now, and she uses it every single day. I like netbooks because they're expandable.

Which was my point about it being referred to as an overpriced netbook. I have a netbook, and it has always been a piece of junk. I actually think tablets like the iPad caused the death of netbooks.

The rMB is a fantastic ultraportable that can handle 95% of daily use. Don't edit videos, pictures or music? Then this will probably suffice. Yes it's expensive. But it's a premium product.

 

[Queen6]

Don't mean to be rude, but to be blunt, if you have no perceptible difference in performance between a 1.2ghz rMB and a 2.8 ghz rMBP, there's either something wrong with your rMBP, or something wrong with your eyes. ;-)

No not at all; Both systems are only opening applications, unless you exceed the thermal envelope of the Core M it will not throttle as there is no requirement. Core M will take full advantage of it`s dynamic "Burst " nature boosting up to a maximum of 2.6GHz, nor does the 2.8GHz i5 have any significant advantage in such a scenario, as it`s not able to take advantage of it`s higher clock speed (3.3GHz), as the tasks are generally completed in microseconds, with neither CPU maxing out clock frequency.

If you simultaneously open "HandBrake" on both rMB & rMBP, the application would load without any appreciable difference between the two Notebook`s, equally transcode an MKV file to MP4, the rMBP will streak ahead thanks to it`s more powerful CPU, active cooling and higher TDP.

If you apply a sustained multi core computational load the i5 will clearly pull ahead by significant margins, with the Core M forced to throttle due to hitting it`s thermal limit, this is where the compromise exists between the two CPU`s. The dynamic "Burst" nature of the Core M is a very different animal compared to the i5 and allows Core M to perform very comparably to the i5 in everyday tasks that are not prolonged for extended periods of time.

Maybe you should go back to the Air, as you were happy with it, and the associated performance. The sum of a system`s performance is not solely it`s CPU benchmark this has never been truer, and will extend further with Skylake etc. I would never suggest the rMB is as powerful, or as versatile as the 13" rMBP, equally in day to day productivity tasks the rMBP can certainly hold it`s own, without the user perceiving the system to be sluggish and or lagging.

Thing is, if you don't fully understand the hardware, it can be difficult to get the best out of it...

Q-6

 

[shenan1982]

If you simultaneously open "HandBrake" on both rMB & rMBP, the application would load without any appreciable difference between the two Notebook`s, equally

Maybe you should go back to the Air, as you were happy with it, and the associated performance. The sum of a system`s performance is not solely it`s CPU benchmark this has never been truer, and will extend further with Skylake etc. I would never suggest the rMB is as powerful, or as versatile as the 13" rMBP, equally in day to day productivity tasks the rMBP can certainly hold it`s own, without the user perceiving the system to be sluggish and or lagging.

Thing is, if you don't fully understand the hardware, it can be difficult to get the best out of it...

Why do you judge performance based on opening Handbrake? That's like saying textedit will open the same on both. That about the worst example EVER. Try Photoshop, or MS Word, or Acrobat Pro... rMB will still be bouncing when the rMBP and MBA are fully loaded.

Nice dig with the last comment. I guess you just want to blindly defend the sub-par CPU.

 

[shenan1982]

You might want to dig into the specs of the 2013 vs 2014 ultimate MBA. There were NO hardware changes as the next generation processor was not ready when the new MBAs were released in 2014. Instead apple dropped the price.

Try again:

http://www.technobuffalo.com/2014/0...13-vs-macbook-air-11-inch-2014-spec-shootout/

Minor spec bump, but spec bump none the less.