Adobe CEO Responds to Steve Jobs' 'Thoughts on Flash'

[PeterQVenkman]

Flash supports multitouch and gestures:

http://vimeo.com/10723525

And don't worry, that a vid available in HTML5!

No. All I'm saying is that H.264 is an open standard.

You're getting into semantics here. If that's what you're arguing, then John Sullivan of the Free Software Foundation put it better than I can:

Part of the reason why Flash and iPhone OS are proprietary is that Adobe and Apple agreed to the terms of the H.264 patent license. H.264, despite Jobs's claim, is not a free standard—patents necessary to implement it are held by a group that requires all users to agree to a license with restrictive terms. Those terms have previously even been unavailable for examination online. We are publishing them on fsf.org today in order to comment on their unethical restrictions. The fact that H.264 is a commonly used standard does not make it a free standard—the terms of its use are what matter, and they require all licensed software to include the following notice:

THIS PRODUCT IS LICENSED UNDER THE AVC PATENT PORTFOLIO LICENSE FOR THE PERSONAL AND NON-COMMERCIAL USE OF A CONSUMER TO (I) ENCODE VIDEO IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE AVC STANDARD ("AVC VIDEO") AND/OR (II) DECODE AVC VIDEO THAT WAS ENCODED BY A CONSUMER ENGAGED IN A PERSONAL AND NON-COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY AND/OR WAS OBTAINED FROM A VIDEO PROVIDER LICENSED TO PROVIDE AVC VIDEO. NO LICENSE IS GRANTED OR SHALL BE IMPLIED FOR ANY OTHER USE. ADDITIONAL INFORMATION MAY BE OBTAINED FROM MPEG LA, L.L.C. SEE HTTP://WWW.MPEGLA.COM

You'll find similar language in the license agreements of Final Cut Studio, Google Chrome, Mac OS X, and Windows 7.

Any Web that can be engaged only after agreeing to such terms, whether for software or a standard, is not "free" or "open." It is gated, and its use is restricted. Jobs himself explains the problems with giving up the freedom to use your computer and its software to another, when he says, "[Apple] cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available to our developers."

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...-a-response-to-steve-jobs-letter-on-flash.ars

 

[jajohns8]

NO Banners are made in Java or HTML.... All in Flash.

THAT industry alone will be enough to keep Flash afloat.
Youtube is the second most clicked site on the planet. All Flash movies.

99% of all the post I've read on this topic in this thread are based on ignorance.

Flash is NOT an interpreted language but JAVA and HTML is. Thus Flash is faster.

You all need to get your facts straight and get off the Steve for Jesus Wagon.

I used to love Jobs but IMO he has mutated into something worse than what governed Germany in a certain century.

Dictatorship WONT last in this century. And Jobs is just that. A dictator on steroids.
He went to far in the 80'ies and it looks as if his ego is overtaking him once more in this decade.



Regards

A Mac User since 93 and never going to use Microsoft.

Well said.

You know, in North Korea, they issue every family a portrait of Kim Jong Il and a little polishing cloth so that you can keep the portrait of the "Dear Leader" pristine at all times.

Wondering when all of the "No matter what Jobs says is absolute truth" gang will receive their portraits. (Better keep them clean when you do get them, or you might be shipped off to prison.)

BTW, I have many Apple products. There are things I love about Apple and things I hate about Apple. I will speak out about both of them.

 

[BaldiMac]

You're getting into semantics here. If that's what you're arguing, then John Sullivan of the Free Software Foundation put it better than I can:

We are talking about the definition of a term. The nature of the discussion is semantics.

According to the FSFE definition that I posted earlier and the context in which Jobs used the term, it is an open standard.

I'm not sure what you are trying to argue. It's not free. It is licensed.

 

[BaldiMac]

Well said.

You know, in North Korea, they issue every family a portrait of Kim Jong Il and a little polishing cloth so that you can keep the portrait of the "Dear Leader" pristine at all times.

Wondering when all of the "No matter what Jobs says is absolute truth" gang will receive their portraits. (Better keep them clean when you do get them, or you might be shipped off to prison.)

BTW, I have many Apple products. There are things I love about Apple and things I hate about Apple. I will speak out about both of them.

If your truth includes any sort of comparison between a brutal dictatorship with a record of human rights abuses and a company that makes electronics, you need some perspective.

 

[macsmurf]

99% of all the post I've read on this topic in this thread are based on ignorance.

Including yours.

Flash is NOT an interpreted language but JAVA and HTML is. Thus Flash is faster.

Flash is compiled into bytecode and then run in the Flash Player VM. Flash is therefore not an interpreted language. Java is compiled into bytecode and then run in the Java VM. Java is therefore not an interpreted language. HTML is not a programming language.

 

[Carniphage]

I had a look at the Flash sourcecode a few years ago.

When Flash is drawing vector shapes, it's down to the CPU to draw spans of pixels onto the screen buffer. The bigger the screen, the more pixels to draw.

I also get the impression that for some video streams, the CPU is responsible for not only decoding but up-scaling the video.

The newer implementations of Flash do make use of more hardware optimisation. But that does not automatically go back in time and fix older Flash content out there on the web. That's still going to be CPU intensive - and will turn any mobile device into a hand-warmer.

C.

 

[Max(IT)]

Flash supports multitouch and gestures:

What's your problem ?!?
No one said multitouch isn't supported, we are just saying that the majority of existing Flash applications are based on a keyboard and mouse user interface, so they have to be rewritten/updated to support multitouch.

 

[ct2k7]

What's your problem ?!?
No one said multitouch isn't supported, we are just saying that the majority of existing Flash applications are based on a keyboard and mouse user interface, so they have to be rewritten/updated to support multitouch.

If I'm reading this correct, (might not be, I'm reading off an iPhone) then you've just contradicted yourself.

You said multitouch is supported, but then it's not? The mouse interpreter is the finger.

 

[Carniphage]

You said multitouch is supported, but then it's not? The mouse interpreter is the finger.

The mouse is not the same as a finger.
You can hover a mouse pointer without clicking. Not possible in multi-touch.
You can move a mouse (not a mouse pointer) to the right. And then more to the right ad infinitum. Not possible in multi-touch.

Old Flash games rely on pointerless mouse movement, clicking and keyboard inputs.

Trying to elegantly map these inputs to a touch screen is always going to produce something compromised.

C.

 

[Max(IT)]

If I'm reading this correct, (might not be, I'm reading off an iPhone) then you've just contradicted yourself.

You said multitouch is supported, but then it's not? The mouse interpreter is the finger.

It is not that difficult: there are APIs for multitouch support in Flash, BUT the majority of existing Flash Applications are based on keyboard/mouse UI. If you wanna use them on a iPad/iPod/iPhone, they have to be rewritten or at least updated.
BTW, multitouch it is NOT only a finger instead of a mouse ....

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

I had a look at the Flash sourcecode a few years ago.

When Flash is drawing vector shapes, it's down to the CPU to draw spans of pixels onto the screen buffer. The bigger the screen, the more pixels to draw.

I also get the impression that for some video streams, the CPU is responsible for not only decoding but up-scaling the video.

The newer implementations of Flash do make use of more hardware optimisation. But that does not automatically go back in time and fix older Flash content out there on the web. That's still going to be CPU intensive - and will turn any mobile device into a hand-warmer.

C.

Anyone interested in the reliability, security, and performance of Flash should read the presentation at the following website, which is devoted to a tool that canonicalizes and sanitizes Flash:

http://blitzableiter.recurity.com/

See the slides from "26C3" on the website. That does bring up the question-- if you say you support "Flash", do you have to support older versions, or, can you stick with Flash 10 or even 10.1?

 

[original-aptech]

Noticed Apple's Top Brass - Want Mice (Mice AND Flash) Exterminated?

S. Jobs, quote: *"Flash was designed for PCs using mice, not for touch screens using fingers." (April 29, 2010)

Q. What are others FEELings on current iPads user-friendliness (effectiveness?). -From: Original-Apple-Techy

*"Flash was designed for PCs using mice, not for touch screens using fingers. For example, many Flash websites rely on 'rollovers', which pop up menus or other elements when the mouse arrow hovers over a specific spot. Apple's revolutionary multi-touch interface doesn't use a mouse, and there is no concept of a rollover. Most Flash websites will need to be rewritten to support touch-based devices. If developers need to rewrite their Flash websites, why not use modern technologies like HTML5, CSS and JavaScript?

Even if iPhones, iPods and iPads ran Flash, it would not solve the problem that most Flash websites need to be rewritten to support touch-based devices." -(Words of Steve Jobs, Co-Founder, CEO of Apple, April 29, 2010).