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imajez

macrumors regular
Mar 11, 2014
114
42
Pretty sure two copies costs twice as much. Replacing one license of Aperture for me requires between two and four licenses for LR, depending on how much faff I want to put up with, regardless of whether it's standalone or cloud.

This bleating about "oh, just get this stand-alone version" is completely missing the point. The payment model is not the issue. The issue is the number of copies I'm expected to buy to replace a single copy of Aperture.
Grief, there is only two of you and one copy will do two computers no problem.
Yet is may technically not be quite right according to the licence, but I think Adobe realise that's how it tends to get used in the home environment. If you are using two computers each than pony up for a second copy, it's well worth the money.You obviously can afford it if you have 4 computers to run it on.

If you are talking about a workplace, buy two copies and claim against tax, again no big deal.
 

QquegChristian

macrumors 6502
Jun 24, 2010
472
544
I haven't bothered with a Mk III as the difference for the much bigger price was marginal. A couple of new L lenses or a new laptop make more business sense.

I had just shot a movie called The Battery (which turned into a big indie hit) on the 5D2 and was really looking forward to no aliasing and moire in video mode, though every other video shortcoming remained the same (soft and sub-1080p sharpness, terrible dynamic range). In the end I never even shot video on the 5D3 as I got a C100 with Zeiss glass! C100 is ridiculously overpriced but the video is damn beautiful.

Still use the 5D3 for photography. I swear the colors are more accurate, especially reds and oranges, but nothing you couldn't tweak your way toward in Lightroom. I definitely shoulda skipped the generation in hindsight though. If the 5D4 video looks as good as my C100 I'll jump off a bridge into a pool of the money Canon has beaten out of me.
 

driftless

macrumors 65816
Sep 2, 2011
1,486
183
Chicago-area
I don't think the subscription model is Adobe's attempt to over-charge international users, but rather create a consistent revenue stream.

Major enterprise applications have always been on a subscription model, and while I prefer to buy my applications, I see the logic in Adobe and MS embrace.

Probably more to end the rampant piracy that exists with optical disks and to be able to update/fix the app between releases.
 

BuzzMega

macrumors member
Jul 24, 2010
45
3
Marching Order

Apple:

Buy Adobe.

Fix it.

Before your competition wises up.
 
Last edited:

Sin

macrumors regular
Jun 25, 2007
152
0
Not London
Grief, there is only two of you and one copy will do two computers no problem.
Yet is may technically not be quite right according to the licence, but I think Adobe realise that's how it tends to get used in the home environment. If you are using two computers each than pony up for a second copy, it's well worth the money.You obviously can afford it if you have 4 computers to run it on.

So to summarise, you agree my options are:

Use LR without legitimately licensing it.
Use LR a lot less than I use Aperture now.
Spend a lot more money.
Some combination of the above.
 

ArtOfWarfare

macrumors G3
Nov 26, 2007
9,568
6,072
Why did they photoshop (no pun intended) out the Apple logo on the iMac?

----------

Apple:

Buy Adobe.

Fix it.

Before your competition wises up.

There's a lot of Adobe products that could be given the axe entirely (everything Flash related, and the Windows/Android versions of anything they make) but that doesn't sound like a particularly terrible idea to me...

It would certainly make more sense to me than Beats did.
 

Viantef

macrumors member
Jun 20, 2013
67
0
Adobe's subscription model kills the deal. I have been buying and using Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop since versions 1.0. I don't want to be paying them a monthly or an annual subscription fee. The issue is not the cost but that if I stop paying or they go out of business or they discontinue the product I lose access to my data and can't do my work. With my owning a bought copy I don't lose access to my data and I can always still do my work. Subscriptions are a no-go.

It still acts as regular desktop apps, you'll be able to save all your files locally and not have to use the cloud. In fact, even if Adobe's servers were interrupted, you'd still be able to access their programs.
 

QquegChristian

macrumors 6502
Jun 24, 2010
472
544
So to summarise, you agree my options are:

Use LR without legitimately licensing it.
Use LR a lot less than I use Aperture now.
Spend a lot more money.
Some combination of the above.

I think your best option is to continue using Aperture.

I know it's crazy that a software-only company like Adobe can't give you unlimited licenses to software when Apple could. Maybe Apple could because it encouraged you to buy FOUR of its far more profitable computers by doing so.
 

Roller

macrumors 68030
Jun 25, 2003
2,899
2,075
I use Aperture to edit and manage photos for personal use and for my profession. I don't sell photos but use them to augment my reports and presentations. I don't need LR. I'll use Aperture for the next year or so till I see how Photos turns out. Might be adequate. If I get the lighting and exposure right when I take the picture I find I don't need much post processing except for cropping.

I've been an Aperture user since version 1 and currently have about 11k images in my library. I'm not a professional photographer, but I frequently use images processed in Aperture for my work, in addition to personal use. Over the years, I've invested countless hours using Aperture's editing tools, especially once I started shooting RAW eight years ago. As I understand it, the only way to preserve these edits if I were to switch to LR would be to export the versions in TIFF or some other format that LR can accommodate. I have no problem with LR's cost, but I am concerned about how long it would take to move everything over and organize all my photos in a way that's somewhat close to what I've done in Aperture.

So I'm going to stick with Aperture for a while and see what Photos looks like next year. However, I just re-watched the brief demo from the keynote earlier this month, and I'm not optimistic that all or even the majority of Aperture's non-destructive editing tools will be supported and/or will make the transition to Photos. If that's the case, I guess that I'll just have to decide about making the jump to LR.

Of course, I don't know Apple's long-term plans for their other "pro" apps. But it seems to me that they're moving from a model where they sell software to add value to their hardware to one where they give it away - or sell it for very little - for the same reason.
 

Chupa Chupa

macrumors G5
Jul 16, 2002
14,835
7,396
Title should read...
APPLE DOUBLING DOWN ON LESS COMMITMENT TO ITS PRO MARKET ONCE AGAIN!

Hardly. The Aperture hasn't been used by forward thinking pros for sometime and I doubt it was a meaningful revenue steam for Apple and its marketshare collapsed a long time ago.

Apple's business model changed through the years. It hasn't relied on pros for some time. It's not a niche market for them and they focus on pro areas that are profitable to them and let other companies do everything else.

Also, why the anger (as denoted by the all caps). Surely, you knew this was a strong possibility like everyone else.)
 

Viantef

macrumors member
Jun 20, 2013
67
0
I had just shot a movie called The Battery (which turned into a big indie hit) on the 5D2 and was really looking forward to no aliasing and moire in video mode, though every other video shortcoming remained the same (soft and sub-1080p sharpness, terrible dynamic range). In the end I never even shot video on the 5D3 as I got a C100 with Zeiss glass! C100 is ridiculously overpriced but the video is damn beautiful.

Still use the 5D3 for photography. I swear the colors are more accurate, especially reds and oranges, but nothing you couldn't tweak your way toward in Lightroom. I definitely shoulda skipped the generation in hindsight though. If the 5D4 video looks as good as my C100 I'll jump off a bridge into a pool of the money Canon has beaten out of me.

I'm 17 and coming from a t2i, I have some pretty big gigs coming up from A-list Artist Music Videos. I have about a 4k budget for a camera, what would you recommend?

I love the GH4, but I'm scared of that 2x crop factor, and it pisses me off that I can't see what I'm recording in RAW if I was to go with a 5D MKIII ML Hack.
 

Chupa Chupa

macrumors G5
Jul 16, 2002
14,835
7,396
It's on Amazon as a download or retail box... Cheaper than Adobe.

Oh and can we settle one last thing for everyone? This is from Adobe's official FAQ on Lightroom 5:

Q. Will Lightroom become a subscription only offering after Lightroom 5?

A. Future versions of Lightroom will be made available via traditional perpetual licenses indefinitely.

This settles nothing. Indefinitely doesn't mean "permanently," it means "until we change our mind." No smart company is going to guarantee to make something available permanently. That just sets them up for a future law suit.
 

imajez

macrumors regular
Mar 11, 2014
114
42
Still use the 5D3 for photography. I swear the colors are more accurate, especially reds and oranges, but nothing you couldn't tweak your way toward in Lightroom.
If you use the Camera Profiles in the Camera Calibration section, you will find much improved red and orange rendering with Canon files. See this example with first the raw file and old crappy ACR rendering, the Jpeg out of camera and then the raw file processed with a camera standard profile.
 

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cgc

macrumors 6502a
May 30, 2003
718
23
Utah
Ever heard of Google, it's this neat little website that can do searches for you and there' this wee website called Amazon, they might have a copy for sale.... :p

So you don't have a link? :) Just kidding...

I think, like me, other folks were hoping to buy and download, thus why none of us went to Amazon.
 

laurihoefs

macrumors 6502a
Mar 1, 2013
792
23
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imajez

macrumors regular
Mar 11, 2014
114
42
I've been an Aperture user since version 1 and currently have about 11k images in my library. I'm not a professional photographer, but I frequently use images processed in Aperture for my work, in addition to personal use. Over the years, I've invested countless hours using Aperture's editing tools, especially once I started shooting RAW eight years ago. As I understand it, the only way to preserve these edits if I were to switch to LR would be to export the versions in TIFF or some other format that LR can accommodate. I have no problem with LR's cost, but I am concerned about how long it would take to move everything over and organize all my photos in a way that's somewhat close to what I've done in Aperture.

So I'm going to stick with Aperture for a while and see what Photos looks like next year. However, I just re-watched the brief demo from the keynote earlier this month, and I'm not optimistic that all or even the majority of Aperture's non-destructive editing tools will be supported and/or will make the transition to Photos. If that's the case, I guess that I'll just have to decide about making the jump to LR.
1 - Save your processed files as JPEG copies. - then all your developed settings are sealed in. You can redevelop originals if you ever fancy it later. And will probably look better if done with more up to date tools. I rejig portfolio work all the time with later versions of software.
2 - keyword your work if not already done so, then you can make smart/dumb collections in LR to match your Aperture library.
 

imajez

macrumors regular
Mar 11, 2014
114
42
So you don't have a link? :) Just kidding...

I think, like me, other folks were hoping to buy and download, thus why none of us went to Amazon.
Download 30 day trial, buy on Amazon. Job done.
Though wait for LR6!

----------

So to summarise, you agree my options are:

Use LR without legitimately licensing it.
Use LR a lot less than I use Aperture now.
Spend a lot more money.
Some combination of the above.
Buy two copies of a much better programme and be happy. Still way cheaper than Aperture 1.0. :p
Aperture used to be £500+ [$800!!] here in UK, it only got cheaper because nobody was buying it. They were virtually giving it away a while back and still no interest. Now it's been put out of its misery.
 

QquegChristian

macrumors 6502
Jun 24, 2010
472
544
I'm 17 and coming from a t2i, I have some pretty big gigs coming up from A-list Artist Music Videos. I have about a 4k budget for a camera, what would you recommend?

I love the GH4, but I'm scared of that 2x crop factor, and it pisses me off that I can't see what I'm recording in RAW if I was to go with a 5D MKIII ML Hack.

The Magic Lantern RAW video hack is an absolute glitchy nightmare to both shoot and especially deal with in post. I tested it, immediately sold the ridiculously expensive CF card I had to buy to test it, and then bought the C100. I admire what Magic Lantern accomplished, but it's nearly impossible to use practically and absolutely impossible to rely on.

You were already at a 1.6 crop with t2i, so that's not too bad a difference and the GH cameras are clearly great. The new A7s looks like the ultimate stills/video hybrid though. It comes out next month. Mirrorless but full frame! Super sharp 1080p that looks amazing from what I've seen. The best low light of any camera ever. Ability to output uncompressed 4k to an external recorder.

If the reviews are as good as the early previews have been, I may have to unload $12,000 worth of Canon gear and switch. It's almost too good to be true and $2500. It's a GH4 killer in my mind, though the final reviews aren't in.
 

Sin

macrumors regular
Jun 25, 2007
152
0
Not London
I think your best option is to continue using Aperture.

I know it's crazy that a software-only company like Adobe can't give you unlimited licenses to software when Apple could. Maybe Apple could because it encouraged you to buy FOUR of its far more profitable computers by doing so.

A lot more than four :) But yes, Apple understand that people buy multiple computers and licensing software such that they can't buy something and run it on all of them makes no sense.

Anyway, I agree, I'm in no rush to switch to an alternative until Aperture starts to fall apart at the seams or the alternative is actually more attractive.

But besides that, unlimited licenses aren't required. I'd just like a license that allowed me, as a single user, to use the software on more than two machines without the activation headache. Even if it was (for arguments sake) four, then the deactivation/activation thing if I went beyond that would be significantly less of a problem.

And the thing is it's not like Adobe don't *allow* me to switch computers, it's just that they make it bloody annoying to do so, and as it stands I'd likely either be constantly running into problems from forgetting to deactivate something, or I'd have to change my workflow to suit them.

Licensing it for household use I can understand them being more reticent about, because that's a somewhat difference market, but I would be less bothered about needing two licenses if those licenses were themselves at least a bit less restrictive on what those individual users can do.

There's not much other software where (as an individual user) I'm expected/prepared to buy a license for each computer. Stuff that runs all the time, maybe - the OS itself, virus software, etc., maybe. But applications are pretty commonly licensed for a user *or* a machine, not a tiny set of user+machine combinations.
 

imajez

macrumors regular
Mar 11, 2014
114
42
I'm 17 and coming from a t2i, I have some pretty big gigs coming up from A-list Artist Music Videos. I have about a 4k budget for a camera, what would you recommend?

I love the GH4, but I'm scared of that 2x crop factor, and it pisses me off that I can't see what I'm recording in RAW if I was to go with a 5D MKIII ML Hack.
Don't be too concerned with the crop factor, features were shot on 35mm film for years and that has a crop factor compared to 35mm stills camera due to film going vertically through camera. S35 [film size] is about the same size as a 1.6 crop camera and if you go to FF then focusing becomes even harder and unless you want DoF that's silly narrow a smaller sensor will do just fine. F2 on m4/3rds is still hard to focus pull.

ML is very clever but may be a bit iffy for pro work.
 

QquegChristian

macrumors 6502
Jun 24, 2010
472
544
If you use the Camera Profiles in the Camera Calibration section, you will find much improved red and orange rendering with Canon files. See this example with first the raw file and old crappy ACR rendering, the Jpeg out of camera and then the raw file processed with a camera standard profile.

Absolutely, I've got my import settings defaulted to Camera Standard. I just mean in general that the camera seems to more accurately capture colors both in JPEG and with the camera profile in Lightroom. I make my money shooting food, so I'm constantly dealing with very color specific fruits and vegetables. I did a book on oranges and it was a nightmare with them consistently going out of gamut, as everything else was perfectly exposed and the proper saturation. Tomatoes are also an issue frequently. Greens I find need a little push of the hue to the right. But hey, I was getting better at shooting, the camera made shooting easier in other ways, and Lightroom is always getting updated... So these kind of things might've just added up to me perceiving a difference. Especially to justify all that money spent!
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,329
7,421
Why did they photoshop (no pun intended) out the Apple logo on the iMac?

----------



There's a lot of Adobe products that could be given the axe entirely (everything Flash related, and the Windows/Android versions of anything they make) but that doesn't sound like a particularly terrible idea to me...

It would certainly make more sense to me than Beats did.

All of what you said, especially the bolded, makes me glad that Apple hasn't bought Adobe.
 

imajez

macrumors regular
Mar 11, 2014
114
42
A lot more than four :) But yes, Apple understand that people buy multiple computers and licensing software such that they can't buy something and run it on all of them makes no sense.
Apple are a hardware and not a software company and could [and mostly does] give its software away and would still make obscene amounts of money. You already paid a lot more to use Aperture compared to buying some equally fast PCs that ran LR. So if you are bothered about cost, do not buy Apple computers. Simples.
 
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