Android's SCREWED: Oracle vs. Google Patent SMOKING GUN from Andy Rubin's email

[FrozenTomato]

Hey Hot Rod. I posted the most important parts. What don't you understand?

it doesn't matter if Jonathan Schwartz "endorsed" Android's use of Java. Endorsement's are not legally binding since there is no contract.

AND THIS -------> After Schwartz "Endorsed" Android's use of Java, SUN offered Google a three-year, "all-in" royalty license for Java for $100 million, which Google rejected.


Why do you care if I'm making Google look "bad"? Are you being paid by Google?

The evidences presented are pretty damning, the Judge himself said Google could pay millions/billions.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Hey Hot Rod. I posted the most important parts. What don't you understand?

it doesn't matter if Jonathan Schwartz "endorsed" Android's use of Java. Endorsement's are not legally binding since there is no contract.

AND THIS -------> After Schwartz "Endorsed" Android's use of Java, SUN offered Google a three-year, "all-in" royalty license for Java for $100 million, which Google rejected.


Why do you care if I'm making Google look "bad"? Are you being paid by Google?

The evidences presented are pretty damning, the Judge himself said Google could pay millions/billions.

We got it you hate Google.

You keep repeating the same crap and glaze over other facts.

 

[SandynJosh]

Not in this thread. There are 54 replies, 19 are yours, 8 are mine saying that nobody cares, and 15 are from people who have made 1 comment that dont really care much and then a conversation between two others about the other guys avatar...LOL...sure, people are interested in this alright.

I'm very interested in this topic, but just because I'm not shooting my mouth off like crazy is no measure of interest. Don't try to speak for me and other readers.

One thing I will add, since I'm posting, is that Apple should not be condemned because they use both a carrot and a stick to advance their market share. The carrot is their continuous product enhancements, and the stick is their use of patent law to hinder the competition or make the competition's product more expensive to produce.

If a competitor isn't innovating then they are not adding to the mix, they are just a parasite and need to be squashed using any legal means.

 

[ChazUK]

One thing I will add, since I'm posting, is that Apple should not be condemned because they use both a carrot and a stick to advance their market share. The carrot is their continuous product enhancements, and the stick is their use of patent law to hinder the competition or make the competition's product more expensive to produce.

I thought the subject at hand was Google vs Oracle?

I take it your support of patent law and the "stick" is universal? That same stick that benefits Apple in some cases also hinders them after all (S3 and Nokia come to mind off the top of my head).

 

[Steve121178]

I obviously, HATE Google.

Why?

 

[Tarzanman]

Why?

Why does any Apple fanboy 'hate' Google?

Quite simply, because they make a product that makes Apple look bad.

 

[FrozenTomato]

because Google/HTC/Samsung/Motorola,etc. steal APPLE's innovations/patents without paying for them.

 

[rdowns]

We got it you hate Google.

You keep repeating the same crap and glaze over other facts.

I loves me some irony!


Switch Apple and Google in your post and it could easily be describing you.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I loves me some irony!


Switch Apple and Google in your post and it could easily be describing you.

Yeah minus the fact that I like Apple.
I can go quote his post where he says he hates Google.


I know you have trouble understanding the fact that that even though I do not worship at the church of Apple does not mean I hate them.
Worshipping at the church of Apple is not a requirement to like Apple.

 

[FrozenTomato]

Yeah minus the fact that I like Apple.
I can go quote his post where he says he hates Google.


I know you have trouble understanding the fact that that even though I do not worship at the church of Apple does not mean I hate them.
Worshipping at the church of Apple is not a requirement to like Apple.

why do you care if i "hate" google?

 

[KnightWRX]

why do you care if i "hate" google?

The question is more why do you care enough about Google to hate them ? You do realise they are a faceless corporation, like every other faceless corporations out there and they don't give a hoot about you right ?

 

[FrozenTomato]

The question is more why do you care enough about Google to hate them ? You do realise they are a faceless corporation, like every other faceless corporations out there and they don't give a hoot about you right ?

why do you care? ROFL

 

[*LTD*]

You're allowed to hate on whoever you like. Just back it up with some sense and you're more or less good to go.

 

[FrozenTomato]

maflynn: And yet there's a blog (which has since been "deleted") from Sun's president praising google's use of java. That in of itself really hurt its legal position.


First of all "endorsements" are not legally binding because they are not contracts.


Second. I created a thread a couple of days ago that specifically addressed this "endorsement" over here https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1199362/

here's a summary:

a) After the SUNs endorsement, Sun tried to get a $100 million licensing deal with Google. which Google REJECTED. Google Totally Stabbed them in the back!
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...license-offer-lawyer-says-in-oracle-case.html


b) After Google announced Android's use of Java, Sun was pissed, believing it had been stabbed in the back after they found out about the details.

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2348832&cid=36882124

 

[KingCrimson]

because Google/HTC/Samsung/Motorola,etc. steal APPLE's innovations/patents without paying for them.

Apple stole from LG:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada_(KE850)

 

[FrozenTomato]

Apple stole from LG:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada_(KE850)

And LG stole from Apple. The first Apple tablet prototype circa 1983.

http://designmind.frogdesign.com/blog/from-the-archives-frog-s-early-apple-tablet.html

The Newton Messagepad in 1993.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MessagePad

 

[FrozenTomato]

DENIED By JUDGE: Google's attempt to get a damaging e-mail redacted

Google doesnt want the juryto see this email.

"What we've actually been asked to do by Larry and Sergey is to investigate what technology alternatives exist to Java for Android and Chrome," Google engineer Tim Lindholm wrote in the Aug. 2010 e-mail, in reference to Google co-founders Larry Page and Sergey Brin. "We've been over a hundred of these and think they all suck. We conclude that we need to negotiate a license for Java."

In a court filing last week, Google called the e-mail an incomplete draft message that was subject to client-attorney privilege and wrongly revealed by Oracle in violation of a protective order. It asked Alsup for permission to file two motions that would redact the information from court documents.

But Alsup ruled that the e-mail was not subject to such protection in a ruling filed Monday in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California.

Since Google has provided no concrete evidence the e-mail falls under attorney-client privilege, allowing it to file its motions "would be futile," Alsup added.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/237021/judge_email_in_oraclegoogle_case_will_remain_public.html

 

[voonyx]

My confusion comes from why people think Schwartz endorsing Android means that all is well is Android land lol.

But I guess fandroids need something to run with...shall we examine some more gems that fandroids have run with?

1) The "throttle" mod -- a hack that does absolutely nothing for US carriers, which was released by some basement dev, which led to fandroids proclaiming "OMG I'm seeing 2X the download speed!!!"

2) LTE -- not only was it preached as an android innovation (LOL), but fandroids swore that this would be the end of Apple as we know it. Infact it was suggested that Verizon would put the iPhone on the backburner to promote the crap outta LTE. A month later, Verizon updates their website where users can now shop for "iPhone" or "smartphones" (distinction, theirs)

3) Spectrum agreements -- Fandroids had a field day with this one, where some guy dug up the FCC spectrum agreement that stated that carriers cannot limit usage on 4G networks or something. They automatically proclaimed that the days of Verizon charging for tethering are over, because it is a clear violation of the spectrum agreement. Laughably, Verizon released tiers a few months later, and still charge for tethering.

4) Schwartz email -- for some reason unknown to anyone who knows how contracts and business work, an email is being touted as a legal contract by fandroids who swear that this is the death knell for Oracle lawsuits. Baffling, I know. Apparently if someone in a company says congrats to you, you are now free to steal IP without fear of litigation.

I can't wait for the next thing that fandroids run with...

 

[ChazUK]

1) The "throttle" mod -- a hack that does absolutely nothing for US carriers, which was released by some basement dev, which led to fandroids proclaiming "OMG I'm seeing 2X the download speed!!!"

Who by, what, where and when did this happen?

2) LTE -- not only was it preached as an android innovation (LOL), but fandroids swore that this would be the end of Apple as we know it. Infact it was suggested that Verizon would put the iPhone on the backburner to promote the crap outta LTE. A month later, Verizon updates their website where users can now shop for "iPhone" or "smartphones" (distinction, theirs)

Once again, who by, what, where and when did this happen?

3) Spectrum agreements -- Fandroids had a field day with this one, where some guy dug up the FCC spectrum agreement that stated that carriers cannot limit usage on 4G networks or something. They automatically proclaimed that the days of Verizon charging for tethering are over, because it is a clear violation of the spectrum agreement. Laughably, Verizon released tiers a few months later, and still charge for tethering.

It seems that you like tarring groups of people with the same brush. Could you possibly get the word "fandroid" into the post a few more times?

4) Schwartz email -- for some reason unknown to anyone who knows how contracts and business work, an email is being touted as a legal contract by fandroids who swear that this is the death knell for Oracle lawsuits. Baffling, I know. Apparently if someone in a company says congrats to you, you are now free to steal IP without fear of litigation.

I thought it was a publicly viewable blog post that Oracle have since deleted, not an email (the whole blog has disappeared now)? A few articles I've read have stated that estoppel may apply thanks to the acknowledgement/congratulations by Mr Schwartz and his blog. Do you have anything to refute this?

 

[voonyx]

Who by, what, where and when did this happen?


Once again, who by, what, where and when did this happen?

It seems that you like tarring groups of people with the same brush. Could you possibly get the word "fandroid" into the post a few more times?

I thought it was a publicly viewable blog post that Oracle have since deleted, not an email (the whole blog has disappeared now)? A few articles I've read have stated that estoppel may apply thanks to the acknowledgement/congratulations by Mr Schwartz and his blog. Do you have anything to refute this?

For your first 3 questions, you can google...there's no need for me to search these things for you if you're interested in learning more about them.

For your last question, you're right it may have been a blog post not an email but that doesn't make a difference. estoppel does not apply here...how could it? Congratulations and acknowledgment doesn't somehow supersede infringement and patent law. Further, as someone mentioned, Google was offered a license package after that blog post which they rejected (I don't know the truth in that, as I haven't read about it). But if that's the case, Google's case is even worse.

If it's shown that Google knowingly infringed they're in trouble. And there seems to be evidence that they did knowingly infringe through those emails. I'm not in a position to state that they did or didnt (nor is anyone else here, since we don't know the full details of the suit), but I find no legal way that a judge will rule that because a CEO congratulated a company on a project that that automatically grants permission to steal IP.

And btw I own an Android phone and I love it...my use of the word "fandroid" is directed to just those people...fanboys. I know far more logical and smart android users then I know fanboy users. Unfortunately the fanboys are the one who are the most vocal, and usually the most wrong.

 

[ChazUK]

For your first 3 questions, you can google...there's no need for me to search these things for you if you're interested in learning more about them.

To keep banding about the "fandroid" moniker is nothing but antagonistic, especially if you're going to bulk accuse people of making (unrelated) comments that you bought to this discussion. It seems very belittling.

I really despise the use of terms like "fandroid, iFag, iTard, WinTard" e.t.c and view it as an abject way to insult many people that support, enjoy or use a any product.

For your last question, you're right it may have been a blog post not an email but that doesn't make a difference. estoppel does not apply here...how could it? Congratulations and acknowledgment doesn't somehow supersede infringement and patent law. Further, as someone mentioned, Google was offered a license package after that blog post which they rejected (I don't know the truth in that, as I haven't read about it). But if that's the case, Google's case is even worse.

If it's shown that Google knowingly infringed they're in trouble. And there seems to be evidence that they did knowingly infringe through those emails. I'm not in a position to state that they did or didnt (nor is anyone else here, since we don't know the full details of the suit), but I find no legal way that a judge will rule that because a CEO congratulated a company on a project that that automatically grants permission to steal IP.

The estoppel angle has been bought to prominence by Google themselves presenting it as an exhibit in defence. This may or may not be a smokescreen, I don't know myself but it must have been presented for some reason.

Would anyone outside of the case be able to make a 100% accurate guess outcome on the whole affair? I'd assume that everything is at least speculation at this point.

EDIT:

And btw I own an Android phone and I love it...my use of the word "fandroid" is directed to just those people...fanboys. I know far more logical and smart android users then I know fanboy users. Unfortunately the fanboys are the one who are the most vocal, and usually the most wrong.

Thanks for that bit of explanation, I can understand how they may piss some people off. That level of blind devotion isn't limited to Android fans alone sadly.

 

[voonyx]

To keep banding about the "fandroid" moniker is nothing but antagonistic, especially if you're going to bulk accuse people of making (unrelated) comments that you bought to this discussion. It seems very belittling.

I really despise the use of terms like "fandroid, iFag, iTard, WinTard" e.t.c and view it as an abject way to insult many people that support, enjoy or use a any product.



The estoppel angle has been bought to prominence by Google themselves presenting it as an exhibit in defence. This may or may not be a smokescreen, I don't know myself but it must have been presented for some reason.

Would anyone outside of the case be able to make a 100% accurate guess outcome on the whole affair? I'd assume that everything is at least speculation at this point.

EDIT:


Thanks for that bit of explanation, I can understand how they may piss some people off. That level of blind devotion isn't limited to Android fans alone sadly.

yeah absolutely, like i stated i'm speculating and so is everyone here as we dont know all the facts. i'm just speaking on what i know, nothing more nothing less.

Google bought up estoppel most probably as a smokescreen but its easy to see (at least I think it is) that estoppel has no basis here. Had Schwartz signed an agreement with Google to forego licensing, then realized the moneymaker that Android is and then asked for licensing/royalties, estoppel may apply. Here, it doesn't.

 

[Tiggs]

Think most of Google's stock price premium is based on the Android potential profits. Seems to be inevitable with the Android lawsuits that Google will get its legs chopped off and see a significant stock drop. makes no sense seeing Google trading a t a higher premium to AAPL especially with AAPL growing earnings faster.

ORCL has them over a barrel with these emails as fosspatents shows.