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mixel

macrumors 68000
Jan 12, 2006
1,730
976
Leeds, UK
I dont understand this statement. Windows Mobile (not phone), Blackberry and Symbian had similar UIs, both of which were customizable to be a grid of icons with a "dock", if the user chose.
And PalmOS, which I really liked back in the day. :D Apple's icon grid is not even remotely original, it's just one of the most obvious, sensible ways of doing a touch screen UI. Going too weird detracts from usability. (like the Sony UX50's fruit-machine like start screen)
 

liavman

macrumors 6502
Sep 22, 2009
462
0
Hmmm. I agree and disagree. The market is certainly there, especially with high paying businesses and industry's (editing houses, etc). It may not be cheaper iPhones and iPads at high quantity, but a lot of businesses would spend upwards of $100,000+ for PowerMac's/Mac Pro's, software license upgrades, etc. when the time came. That adds up.

Apple didn't neglect the market as it's "niche". They tapped into a great consumer system; less expensive, cross platform iPhones and iPads give people a taste of Apple products, lock them into iTunes with their purchases, and soon the general consumer is interested in MacBook's (and some, iMac's). Apple has neglected the Mac Pro, even the CCFL LCD's that garnered much praise for their unnecessary system calibration and fine quality went neglected for years before Apple replaced three models with one stripped down iMac LED LCD with cables too short to reach their Mac Pro (although advertised with Mac Pro's).

Their neglect is a great part of why many professionals have moved on and many hold out and hope for updates as they can't afford a full switch monetarily or time wise. Apple has focused much on consumer goods and made bank, yet turned their back on their professional line (at least compared to before). When high end sales dropped, Apple turned around and claimed "See! The professional/desktop market is dead! It's a post-PC era!" (keep in mind, a loaded MacBook Pro isn't much less than a Mac Pro, so it can't be the money). It's frustrating to us who have used power systems and OS 8, 9, X and now are being forced into other platforms. Just because a 12 year old can edit HD movies on their iPad, doesn't mean the market has changed, it just means Apple has changed its market focus.

bedifferent, this all sounds fair and not controversial. It would have better if you had stated all this in the first place instead of flogging your favorite horse in every thread whether the context demands or not. You can not blame others if they get very annoyed at this 'single issue focus' and they perceive all this as trolling. Your sentiment above is fair but that does not have anything to do with Apple reaching a peak in innovation etc.

All of your words in the various posts and in various threads can be summarized in one sentence "Apple, spend some resources on the high end pro market as well". Fine.
 

G4DP

macrumors 65816
Mar 28, 2007
1,451
3
Don't let the screen door hit ya' where the Good Lord split ya'!

Apple is not a computer company, not anymore. Steve set them on the path to huge profits, and that path does not lead anywhere near making yesterday's products for tiny splinters of the market.

Sadly it's aimed at the idiots of society who can't wipe their backside without help now.
 

3282868

macrumors 603
Jan 8, 2009
5,281
0
bedifferent, this all sounds fair and not controversial. It would have better if you had stated all this in the first place instead of flogging your favorite horse in every thread whether the context demands or not. You can not blame others if they get very annoyed at this 'single issue focus' and they perceive all this as trolling. Your sentiment above is fair but that does not have anything to do with Apple reaching a peak in innovation etc.

All of your words in the various posts and in various threads can be summarized in one sentence "Apple, spend some resources on the high end pro market as well". Fine.

Not all my posts have been on this matter.

This is the last time I will address this but I feel it necessary as these personal accusations are unfounded and out of left field.

My first post was on point, it was someone else who accused me of frequenting MacRumors with some nutty intent on tarnishing Apple's reputation by quoting off topic remarks. I still don't know why (even accused me of being paid to do so). If you read my posts, this is not my preferred topic of conversation but merely cherry-picking by some (I'm not the only one who agrees nor comments on the subject and far from the most vocal).

I've been an active member since 2009, have been an avid side liner for years prior. Even approached Doctor Q/Arn about being a contributing editor. A few of my threads in the forums were used as front page pieces/references such as iOS and OS X development (of which I am a member). Some on here take this way too personally, and now I feel the need to defend myself. This is silly. Why are we even discussing this? Take it to PM.

Can we please move on from this non-sense? Thank you.

PS if you think I am anti-Apple, read some of the comments on Apple's $21mill payout on the Swiss clock article just posted (hint: they're not very pro-Apple)

----------

Happy birthday! :D;)

Thanks! :D Hope everyone is having a great Veteran's Day weekend!
 
Last edited:

cdmoore74

macrumors 68020
Jun 24, 2010
2,413
711
I wonder how many people will switch from iPhone because HTC has the green light to include iOS features. This must make you fanbois all warm inside.
 

HAMEYO

macrumors member
Jan 19, 2011
98
0
I think its ridiculous to have your trollish posts in every other thread bashing Apple for something that's not even provable; instead can be proved that Apple has been constantly innovating in almost every space possible. Just because the app launcher is stale for some doesn't mean they are not innovating.

There's no need to cite incomplete text and suggest Apple should take a page. Apple and HTC released this public response in a combined meeting. They both reached to an agreement for which the details are confidential.

----------



Maybe to post BS in every other thread?


You Can Say Anything on The Web Pagd, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA.

Poor LIAR??????????????????

If Ya Were to Be Real Long Time Apple User, I Have Never Seen Such Miserable and Distorted Apple User PERIOD, LOL.
 

BuckusToothnail

macrumors member
Nov 11, 2012
72
0
No, the EU is investigating Samsung.
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-12-89_en.htm



Nice try, though.

WRONG!

You said, "the EU is investigating them for improperly using their standards-essential LTE patents to try to drive out competition."

The case above has NOTHING to do with Samsung's LTE patents.

In fact, it specifically states, "In 2011, Samsung sought injunctive relief in various Member States' courts against competing mobile device makers based on alleged infringements of certain of its patent rights which it has declared essential to implement European mobile telephony standards."

Why is this relevant? I'll explain it to you.

The EU is alleging that Samsung might have broken EU rules by not licensing their standard essential patents to their mobile phone competitors under reasonable FRAND terms, and instead tried sue their competitors in various EU courts for patent infringement and attempted to get their phones withdrawn from the market through sales injunctions.

Do you get it now why you're wrong? NO???

Okay, it's simple.

LTE phones weren't INTRODUCED in the EU until THIS YEAR.

In fact, the first LTE phone available in the EU was a SAMSUNG Galaxy S II LTE, and wasn't made available until FEBRUARY in Sweden, which is the first EU country that had LTE phones on sale.

This is even AFTER the date of the press release, which is January 31, and which itself was referencing to events that happened in 2011.

So how is it possible that Samsung was investigated by the EU for "improperly using their standards-essential LTE patents " by seeking "injunctive relief in various Member States' courts against competing mobile device makers" in 2011 when LTE phones weren't even on the MARKET until 2012?!

What's more, the press release specifically states, "Such commitments were given to ETSI by many patent holders, including Samsung, when the third generation ("3G") mobile and wireless telecommunications system standards were adopted in Europe."

Yes, "3G". You are aware the LTE is NOT "3G" right?

Furthermore, Samsung has NOT submitted ANY of their LTE patents for FRAND anyway!

So how is "the EU is investigating them for improperly using their standards-essential LTE patents to try to drive out competition"???

They're not!

Because none of Samsung's LTE patents are considered "standards-essential" in the EU to begin with!

So you got it WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG and WRONG! Pretty impressive you could get so much WRONG in so FEW words. Bravo!

Nice try making stuff up though!

But let's also address your other "claim" that if Samsung defends their LTE patents against Apple that the EU will be "forcing a harsh settlement upon them" because "the EU is investigating them for improperly using their [debunked claim snipped so sentence can make theoretical sense] patents to try to drive out competition".

So since the EU issued that press release in January, what actions have the EU actually TAKEN against Samsung for these alleged offenses?

Don't know? I do.

Exactly NOTHING!

Wow, you really made a strong "argument" there.

But wait, what company WAS under investigation by the EU for "price fixing" and other antitrust violations JUST LAST MONTH???

Can you guess?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/09/us-apple-eu-idUSBRE89818N20121009

And which company due to the seriousness and scope of their illegal price fixing activities and anti-trust violations were under the threat of being fined by the EU of "up to 10 percent of their global sales, which in Apple's case could reach $15.6 billion, based on its 2012 fiscal year"?

And what company under the treat of the HUMONGOUS penalty for their illegal activities and antitrust violations had to "take a whipping" with their tail behind their legs and SETTLE with the EU just LAST WEEK?

And which company through their illegal price-fixing antitrust violating schemes with four major publishers in the efforts to hurt their market-dominant competitor Amazon and drive them out of business ended up BACK-FIRING and had to offer a highly UNFAVORABLE settlement offer to the EU giving "certainly another win for Amazon"?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/06/net-us-eu-apple-publishers-idUSBRE8A50SA20121106

Need another hint? It's not Samsung.


Uh, no. Apple has lost some IP suits, as well, most recently to VirnetX. If another company has IP, then they deserve compensation.


But I guess according to you, it's only patent TROLLING when APPLE owns the patent, but otherwise, it's patent INFRINGEMENT when APPLE is getting sued!


Apple certainly has LOST some "IP suits" and yes, VimetX does "deserve compensation", but don't tell that to Apple though!

Not only did Apple lose to VimetX, but VimetX is suing them AGAIN since the last lawsuit didn't cover the latest Apple products including the iPhone 5, iPad Mini and iPad 4, and despite losing the previous case, Apple still won't pay up!

Maybe you can convince Apple "If another company has IP, then they deserve compensation" because they certainly haven't been agreeing with you!

But it's not just VimetX though, VimetX is just the tip of the iceberg.

Just this past week, a Wisconsin court threw out Apple's lawsuit against Motorola Mobility in which Apple was arguing AGAINST PAYING the license fees dictated by Motorola for using its wireless patents.

That's BAD for Apple and basically is going to end up with Apple paying Motorola (i.e. Google) 2.25% of the “iPhone minus iPod” price which in real dollar figures would be around $10 per unit, or TEN TIMES the $1 that Apple wanted to pay!

And then last week a District of Delaware court DENIED Apple's case dismissal request and allowed MobileMedia Ideas to pursue its lawsuit against Apple for infringing on its screen rotation patent.

This would be HUGE, of course, as "screen rotation" would cover every iOS device Apple has ever produced including all iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad models.

And Apple couldn't just simply remove "screen rotation" from iOS like how Samsung removed "rubber banding" from their devices so if Apple lost that case they would be liable for damages for every one of their iOS devices they ever produced as well as for future license fees.

And THEN you have Samsung's lawsuit for Apple's exploitation of their non-FRAND, non-SEP LTE patents. Since Apple is refusing to pay the license fee to Samsung and therefore blatantly committing patent INFRINGEMENT, Samsung would have no CHOICE but to ask for INJUNCTIVE RELIEF against the iPhone 5, iPad Mini and iPad 4 in both the US AND the EU.

If that happens, like I said, it'll just land a crippling blow to Apple, ceasing revenue from their top three highest grossing products in their first and second most important markets, and sending their AAPL share price into a spinning nose dive from which they may never recover.

You wonder why Apple doesn't just take YOUR advice of "If another company has IP, then they deserve compensation" and just PAY UP!

When you consider that all of the smartphone-related patent lawsuits that Apple and its competitors have been involved in the past two years have generated a combined $20 BILLION in LEGAL COSTS and related expenditures for all parties involved, how much money is Apple WASTING on all this PATENT TROLLING?

Apple would actually be SAVING money if instead of going to court, they just fairly PAID the license fees for the patents they are using to their rightful patent owners, AND if they weren't so INTENT on patent trolling the ENTIRE INDUSTRY to get all of their competitors' products BANNED thinking they DESERVE to be a MONOPOLY.
 

liavman

macrumors 6502
Sep 22, 2009
462
0
My first post was on point!

btw, I am not personally accusing you of anything or being anti-apple. Let us get over that part.

Now, of course, your first post here was not on point. This is about HTC Apple settlement, and you used a very narrow sliver of relevance, if any, so narrow that even quarks cannot get through them, to flog your hobby horse. It is not a big deal, let us move on.
 

MacinDoc

macrumors 68020
Mar 22, 2004
2,268
11
The Great White North
I wonder how many people will switch from iPhone because HTC has the green light to include iOS features. This must make you fanbois all warm inside.
Sorry, I don't see how a cross-licensing deal would make anyone switch from iOS to Android or vice-versa.

What matters most is which company makes the most usable phone.

For me, ATM, that's Apple, but who knows what the future holds in terms of new devices and mobile OSs?
 

jimmyb5374

macrumors member
Oct 24, 2012
54
0
berkshire,U.K.
Sorry, I don't see how a cross-licensing deal would make anyone switch from iOS to Android or vice-versa.

What matters most is which company makes the most usable phone.

For me, ATM, that's Apple, but who knows what the future holds in terms of new devices and mobile OSs?

Most usable phone in terms of appearance / lag = iphone


better phones in terms of specs/diversity and customisation = htc , ok they have had a few turkeys , but if they can licence enough to smooth out their bugs and have a better range they will bounce back , big style , their build quality WAS always better than samsung , less plasticky and more robust feeling
 

osofast240sx

macrumors 68030
Mar 25, 2011
2,539
16
...good for APPLE all this $ billions coming in but not one factory of Apple crap is been made here in US...what is the point of having the Cupertino office in US.!? I think will be better if they move all the tent in Beijing China or Honduras.::mad::mad:
humm why? Apples manufacturing base was never really established in the US. Companies like Ford and Kellogg manufacturing base was established in the US, these companies fired as many as 100,000 worker at once, devastating those workers, families and communities. I guess ford and Kellogg should move there offices to Mexico.
 

Glideslope

macrumors 604
Dec 7, 2007
7,965
5,421
The Adirondacks.
Apple offered to settle with samsung, several years ago. Samsung refused, which is why they went to court.

Apple offered to settle with HTC, and Apple and HTC came to terms.

Apple is not being unreasonable... it is Samsung, and Google, and motorola who are being unreasonable.

Because they think they are too big to be convicted of stealing.

Nothing of value is every easy. Their day will come. :apple:
 

ShiftyPig

macrumors 6502a
Aug 24, 2008
567
0
AU
How would you like to be the guy who on Monday morning has to start sending out all the "Yeah, nevermind" notices to all the courts around the world.
 

lkrupp

macrumors 68000
Jul 24, 2004
1,889
3,874
Apple should take a page from HTC's book and follow suit with the plethora of lawsuits they have filed. Not debating authenticity of said suits, however it seems Apple is innovating less and suing more. The last time I was "wowed" by Apple was in 2006/7 with the iPhone. Riding the iWave is getting tired.

But I'll bet you are continuously wowed by anything Samsung/Google puts out, right? I'll bet you were wowed by the Galaxy Tab when it came out a year after the iPad but not the iPad, right?
 

alexgowers

macrumors 65816
Jun 3, 2012
1,338
892
Nice, I would love to see 10 years of no patent litigation for all but samsung, that would really mix things up.

I think samsung is one of the biggest most evil companies in the world and I still don't get why they are supported by android lovers when there are better companies out there. I know they might hate apple but samsung are a much worse company to support!

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I dont understand this statement. Windows Mobile (not phone), Blackberry and Symbian had similar UIs, both of which were customizable to be a grid of icons with a "dock", if the user chose. This was all MANY years before Apple's iPhone came out. I hate all of this blind mudslinging about who copied who. It's a GUI. There are going to be similarities, much like there will be huge similarities between various makes/models of toasters. It's the way of the world. And for the record, Windows Phone isn't so different, sans the fact that there is no real "dock" to speak of. Otherwise, the UIs are pretty damn similar.

Please not that I am not claiming that one is is better, worse, or equal to another in user experience. All I am saying is that this "magical smartphone UI" that everyone seems to think Apple was the inventor of has been around for quite some time. Like EVERYTHING Apple does, they simply made it better and work (almost) flawlessly.

Erm apple invented GUI's full stop. Xerox park agreed to let them have the idea of a 'graphical user interface' but apple developed it into the modern desktop and everything that spawned.

This crap about apple not coming up with GUI's annoys me as much as your misinformation annoys you.
 

3282868

macrumors 603
Jan 8, 2009
5,281
0
But I'll bet you are continuously wowed by anything Samsung/Google puts out, right? I'll bet you were wowed by the Galaxy Tab when it came out a year after the iPad but not the iPad, right?

Ugh not another one. Read my posts, please (and no, I own nothing Samsung aside from an LED LCD 3D unit)

Good lord, you have one difference of opinion and some looney's assume you're a paid employee of Samsung or Google on an Apple site or you're anti-Apple. Even if I was, I can own non-Apple things and still respect Apple; I can disagree with some of their decisions and still use their products. SMH
 

sazivad

macrumors 6502
Jul 21, 2011
327
0
New Jersey
Nice how you let off Friday's stellar results [concerning Apple stock price].
Don't get me wrong, I'm bull on Apple. And Friday's results were stellar, that is, compared to the most recent stock prices.

Considering, though, that AAPL is still $168 off their 52 week high…
 

Swift

macrumors 68000
Feb 18, 2003
1,828
964
Los Angeles
This is what Cook wants

They won't tell us right away, but HTC probably agreed to a per phone license. Microsoft gets $5. per phone. Jobs might have just nuked HTC, but Cook just wants to license. The rationale is, okay, Google doesn't have to make money off the sale of its OS, but they can't actually give it away free to hardware people. There have to be licensing fees. That's when the patent system starts to work. If these hardware manufacturers can get google to license from Apple, all the better. Maybe I'd charge them less if Google coughs up.

I am in favor of patents when they actually do what they're supposed to do in the Constitution: protect innovation. Grant a temporary exclusivity. The kinds of things that can be patented, or copywritten, still have to adjust to this new era. But to say that "software" can't be patented, whereas "hardware" can, seems crazy to me. For instance, the software codecs of the H.264 variety, which are the best on the market so far. I wouldn't have a clue how to write those things, and they're crucial. The dozens of patents that they represent are the best, right? I think there must be laws against charging too much for the codecs; they should be small enough to be routinely licensed, for an affordable and non-discriminatory amount. Somebody who, in the future, figure out how to stream 4K in the most convincing but compressed codec, deserves to become a part of MPEG and share in revenues. You don't have to be a monk to write software, right? Great for people who don't charge, but you're not a sinner if you're smart enough to do the strange math and write it in a very compact form, then you should have a bit of the world's money.

----------

Friend of mine lost her phone. "Oh, do you know how to use "Find my iPhone"?

"It's a first-gen Samsung Galaxy."

Anybody know if there's a "find my Samsung Galaxy One" app?
 

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
Apple should just make a clean breast of it and get rid of their entire computer line. The fight for computers was over long ago, and Microsoft won.

And Apple went on, without actually "fighting" anybody, just making good computers, and now they have about 6% of unit sales (not counting iPads), about 15% of revenue, and 50% of profits in the whole computer market. :D
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
Erm apple invented GUI's full stop.

Not even close. Doug Englebart's group showed off the first mouse driven UI (and video conferencing and so much more) in 1968 while Steve Jobs was turning 13.

This caused Xerox, a year or two later, to open the Palo Alto Research Center (Xero PARC) to persue GUIs and the replacement of the paper office. Which is exactly what they did: they invented the modern windowed GUI with icons, object oriented programming, laser printers and office networking.

1981_xerox_star.PNG

Xerox park agreed to let them have the idea of a 'graphical user interface' but apple developed it into the modern desktop and everything that spawned.

Apple hired on a lot of the Xerox PARC developers, who continued to refine the GUI they'd invented. They added pulldown menus, for example, but it was all just icing on the basic cake.

IMO, the praise goes to the developers, not the companies they worked for at first or later.

If Apple had never existed, another old or new company would've picked up on GUIs soon enough. The time was ripe and the Xerox developers would've gone anywhere who would allow them to finish up and take it to market.
 

G4DP

macrumors 65816
Mar 28, 2007
1,451
3
Nice, I would love to see 10 years of no patent litigation for all but samsung, that would really mix things up.

I think samsung is one of the biggest most evil companies in the world and I still don't get why they are supported by android lovers when there are better companies out there. I know they might hate apple but samsung are a much worse company to support!

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Erm apple invented GUI's full stop. Xerox park agreed to let them have the idea of a 'graphical user interface' but apple developed it into the modern desktop and everything that spawned.

This crap about apple not coming up with GUI's annoys me as much as your misinformation annoys you.

I bet you think Apple invented the icon dock as well?
 
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