Apple Asks for $379 Million in Damages Retrial Against Samsung

[snowmoon]

1987, more than 25 years ago, the roots of what we now have as a vibrant tablet and smartphone market was started with the newton. It bears a number of striking similarities to the iPods and iPhones that followed. It was the fist device to receive the label "PDA", ARM based, 480x320 screen, and many other little things.

I still have a functional Newton 120, it takes AA batteries and CF cards.

 

[Hyper-X]

Many "hate" Samsung because it copies/steals patented technology, misrepresents sales figures by using shill firms such as Strategy Analytics, hires online trolls to trash competitors, uses underhanded viral marketing, puts its money into advertising and sales instead of quality and reliability, does not stand behind its products when they fail prematurely (been there, done that) and is run by a convicted criminal. That's not jealousy, that's reality.

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patent...-samsungs-trickster-ways-surfaces-on-cnn.html

So are you saying that Apple is free of wrong doing? Sounds like the kettle calling the pot black to me. If you objectively examine iOS 7's UI, many won't contest the fact that it does seem to share many similarities to the appearance of the current Android platform.

If Samsung's products were as shabby as you indicate, then perhaps you could explain the sales numbers. There's an obvious appeal towards their products so as I said earlier, the numbers don't lie. Just because you or any other person experiences problems with any product, doesn't mean the vast majority shares your experiences with the product line.

When you think about reliability, that topic can go in many different directions. For example iOS apps are notorious (and proven statistically) to have the highest crash rates of any other mobile platform. Many iOS devices have/had a rather generous amount of defects across various models (straight out of the box) which I'm sure I don't have to go into detail as they're commonly known (and/or forgotten).

 

[snowmoon]

Maybe the most obvious corporate shilling is at Apple Insider, where in one thread a couple posters became irate about criticisms of the rmbp's soldered RAM, and implied slotted replaceable RAM was "cheap."

The only time I've ever had hardware issues with a mac laptop turned out to be 3rd party ram "certified by the manufacturer". We don't always like the choices made, but they are usually done for a reason.

 

[Poisonivy326]

The only time I've ever had hardware issues with a mac laptop turned out to be 3rd party ram "certified by the manufacturer". We don't always like the choices made, but they are usually done for a reason.

If replaceable RAM is all of a sudden "cheap" then is the 27" iMac with its RAM door slots "cheap"? Or mac mini RAM "cheap"? Of all the defenses of soldered RAM, I think the idea that removable RAM is "cheap" is the weakest.

My point is that I think corporate shills are everywhere in tech blogs, and I believe all companies are equally guilty of this. I've seen posters I think are Microsoft shills here, but I've also seen posters I suspect are paid by Apple here.

AppleInsider also had a poster that claimed he terminated employees if they used Google/Android products. Is this guy for real? Because I've worked in a variety of workplaces and never has using Google been a fireable offense. But it's quite possible he's a paid corporate promoter who wants to give the impression that "using Google can get you fired!"

Who knows. People have their agendas, that's all I'm saying.

 

[Hyper-X]

The only time I've ever had hardware issues with a mac laptop turned out to be 3rd party ram "certified by the manufacturer". We don't always like the choices made, but they are usually done for a reason.

Hardware issues can happen on any product, even with items purchased directly from the manufacturers due to random chance. What matters more is the quality of support customers have access to when problems occur.

 

[giantfan1224]

It won't be somewhere in the middle. That's not how it works. It's not a negotiation. It's a jury deciding what damage Samsung has done.

I didn't mean to imply it was a negotiation. I'm aware that it's the jury that decides. It's pretty standard for the plaintiff and defendant to go in on complete opposite sides of the spectrum and it's not uncommon for the jury to set the damages somewhere more in the middle.

 

[MrX8503]

Shocking thing is that their market share exploded when they stopped copying iOS

That's what $11B in advertising and hoisting themselves up off Apple's innovations from the original 2007 iPhone will do for them. How's that galaxy gear watch? hmmmm

 

[giantfan1224]

It is high time that both Apple and Samsung just hung it up and got on with business/life. Of course it could go either way, but I think Apple has far more to lose here and will be the eventual loser if they keep this up. I know this whole mess has soured me on Apple big time, and I am a long time Apple fan with a whole house of their products. But if they keep this up much longer my next PC (and then everything else that supports it) will be something else.

So Apple should not defend their intellectual property? Maybe they should just be some charitable company that innovates and let's everyone else steal their designs it blindly. Just think of all the R&D $$ saved!

 

[ThomasM]

So Apple should not defend their intellectual property? Maybe they should just be some charitable company that innovates and let's everyone else steal their designs it blindly. Just think of all the R&D $$ saved!

Depends on the patents.

 

[danny_w]

And you're saying that Apple doesn't steal?? HAHAHA. That is not the point here at all, but rather the prolonged bullying that has become Apple. I think we are all getting tired of it and it is time to stop.

 

[giantfan1224]

And you're saying that Apple doesn't steal?? HAHAHA. That is not the point here at all, but rather the prolonged bullying that has become Apple. I think we are all getting tired of it and it is time to stop.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[TheHateMachine]

That's what $11B in advertising and hoisting themselves up off Apple's innovations from the original 2007 iPhone will do for them. How's that galaxy gear watch? hmmmm

What does the galaxy gear watch have to do with what he said? Are you just that buttmad over Samsung you have to bash a different totally unrelated product? hmmmm

 

[ThomasM]

I've never understood the love (and hate) that some seem to have for products and the company behind them. It's not a football club or a baseball team, it's a company looking to make profits.

Right now, for my use, the best product for me is a tab3 and a samsung 4s, simply because it gives me a bit more freedom. If Apple opens up IOS a wee bit more, i'll no doubt consider going for an ipad mini.

Not sure why some are convinced that the build quality of samsung products are *****. Some will experience problems, some won't, i got two iphone 5's because it kept getting dust directly on the camera lens, hardly impressive. Yet my iphone 4 survived half a dozen encounters with the pavement without the glass caving in. It varies, a lot.

Anyway.

I've had a couple of macbook pro's, i can't think of a laptop i'd rather have, not because of the OS but because of the trackpad which is a cut above the rest. I'm using a mac mini as a media center, works great. I've had 3 iphones, last one for me was the 5. For me, the main issue for me is divided into two things, IOS is falling behind and trying to catch up with Android and Apple has done a bit too much to lock down IOS. The notification center was introduced when, IOS5 ? in an attempt to create a decent version of the notifications in Android, even in IOS7 it's not as good. Same with the control center, which should've been in place years ago but still doesn't let you change any of the shortcuts. Android makes it miles more easier to spread apps around different pages, which is another flaw that needs to be improved

It's still a pain in the ass to connect the iphone/ipad to other computers to transfer files. It shouldn't be like that. I want to download a file to dropbox, connect my phone via usb and copy the downloaded file from the dropbox folder and over to my laptop. Same with copying movies and tv shows to an ipad, just let me copy it directly over to a folder instead of having to go via itunes and vlc.

 

[mccldwll]

So are you saying that Apple is free of wrong doing? Sounds like the kettle calling the pot black to me. If you objectively examine iOS 7's UI, many won't contest the fact that it does seem to share many similarities to the appearance of the current Android platform.

If Samsung's products were as shabby as you indicate, then perhaps you could explain the sales numbers. There's an obvious appeal towards their products so as I said earlier, the numbers don't lie. Just because you or any other person experiences problems with any product, doesn't mean the vast majority shares your experiences with the product line.

When you think about reliability, that topic can go in many different directions. For example iOS apps are notorious (and proven statistically) to have the highest crash rates of any other mobile platform. Many iOS devices have/had a rather generous amount of defects across various models (straight out of the box) which I'm sure I don't have to go into detail as they're commonly known (and/or forgotten).

Sales numbers high based on price, which is why Samsung's per phone net income is so low. In the smartphone market, the large share comes primarily from what can better be described as low profit disposable feature phones.

In other products such as TVs and microwaves, Samsung undercuts the competition on price but the consumer suffers in the long run when the product fails prematurely. Samsung spends the money on advertising/marketing and not on quality/reliability. It also doesn't stand behind products until backed into a corner, such as with the "waterproof" S4 Active, which had a warranty which didn't cover water damage. You can't make that stuff up. Samsung finally backed down when PR became too negative. I will never buy another Samsung product based on years of experience.

How about a cite on your "statistically proven" claim.

Defects right out of the box are far lower on iPhones than other smartphones, which I'm sure you know.

 

[Unggoy Murderer]

U mad bro?

No, darling.

I'm just a little startled that people can be tricked into thinking they're getting good quality from a Samsung mobile device. Samsung TVs, fridges, washing machines - all excellent. But their mobile devices division sucks.

 

[Poisonivy326]

Jesus Christ these tech companies don't really "innovate" in the Thomas Edison sense. Most of the technologies we are using today have been around for a long time.

The best tech companies package/repackage existing technologies into the most attractive product for the consumer. If you're able to carve out a niche in the tech world as a reliable, trusted brand then good for you. My friend has an iphone 5s but bought his teen daughter a Galaxy. The reason: she had previously shattered her iphone 4s glass three times. He wasn't about to give her another glass-screen phone.

Contrary to what macrumors thinks, there really is room for a "non-premium" phone market.

 

[danny_w]

You didn't answer the question.

Of course they should defend their IP but their is a point where it is no longer worth pursuing and is in fact detrimental. I think Apple reached that point long ago.

 

[BaldiMac]

Of course they should defend their IP but their is a point where it is no longer worth pursuing and is in fact detrimental. I think Apple reached that point long ago.

Based on what? Are you saying they should leave $1 billion on the table?

 

[giantfan1224]

Of course they should defend their IP but their is a point where it is no longer worth pursuing and is in fact detrimental. I think Apple reached that point long ago.

So where do YOU draw the line? If not where a competitor copies your wildly successful design wholesale, then where?

 

[snowmoon]

If replaceable RAM is all of a sudden "cheap" then is the 27" iMac with its RAM door slots "cheap"? Or mac mini RAM "cheap"? Of all the defenses of soldered RAM, I think the idea that removable RAM is "cheap" is the weakest.

No, not at all, the fact of the matter is that is just one of many reasons. I would bet the primary is that building mobile devices with user-servacable parts is no longer something that is a priority to Apple. They would prefer to sink that design space and time into larger batteries, smaller designs, better performance, and other things that make more of an impact on more user.

 

[Hyper-X]

Sales numbers high based on price, which is why Samsung's per phone net income is so low. In the smartphone market, the large share comes primarily from what can better be described as low profit disposable feature phones.

You clearly don't understand the details of what goes into marketing such products with such generalizations. Which proves the next point of how

... Samsung undercuts the competition on price but the consumer suffers in the long run when the product fails prematurely.

Last time I checked their products are priced very competitively and often times offer more functionality/flexibility. When you look at the refurb market (2nd hand phones), it's much easier to recondition a non-iOS phone and in Asia, there's a huge market on refurbs. One could argue that "undercutting" the competition is just as bad as overcharging for a phone that costs roughly $200 to make, at well over $600 US retail.

There's also the issue of how people claim how X is copying what Y does. Think about the iPad Mini market and what Steve Jobs had to say about what a tablet needed to be (pointing to the iPad 1). Apple came in late in the game only after recognizing the appeal the mini tablets had.

How about a cite on your "statistically proven" claim.

Sure. Let's go over some history.

iOS 5.01 vs Android 2011

iOS 6 vs Android 2012

iPhone 5s Crashing 2x more than previous models
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Apps-on-iPhone-5s-are-crashing-twice-more-often-than-on-previous-models_id48204#5-

Defects right out of the box are far lower on iPhones than other smartphones, which I'm sure you know.

Defects come in many forms, it goes beyond just hardware or software alone. Both need to be properly working for the product to function properly. To name a few...

- Never heard of an Android/Nokia/Windows Phone that had antenna issues by holding the unit wrong.

- Never heard of Samsung or any other smartphone with such a massive issue with camera lens flaring.

- Never heard of any non-iOS platform that was released with a major failure of their GPS-enabled maps application.

 

[apolloa]

Considering just how much Apple has stolen/ copied direct from WebOS and Android for it's iOS7, I find all this suing Samsung a rather overblown totally hypocritical waste of time now.

But sigh, buying patents and suing everyone with them seems to the modern fashionable way for corporations to do business now.

 

[MrX8503]

What does the galaxy gear watch have to do with what he said? Are you just that buttmad over Samsung you have to bash a different totally unrelated product? hmmmm

Galaxy gear is proof of Samsung's innovation skills without a blueprint.

 

[Konrad9]

He didn't say the Galaxy S3 and S4 were cheap low end phones, he said Samsung's market share in general was made up of cheap low end phones.

And that would be true assuming we're talking of worldwide market share.

U.S. market share is another story, and it's true that high-end Samsung phones (Galaxy S/Note lines) sell a lot more, but I doubt he'd even be defending Apple's US marketshare because he wouldn't need to. Apple sells significantly more smartphones than Samsung in the U.S., even including all Samsung ranges of phones.

There's a huge discrepancy in average selling price by smartphone OS, with the average iPhone going for ~$640 vs ~$280 for the average Android phone according to the latest IDC numbers. Those are unsubsidized prices of course.

For reference, $280 is roughly the price of a Galaxy Ace: 480x320 TFT screen, ARM 11 CPU, 158 MB internal storage, 278 MB RAM, HSDPA, Android 2.3 Gingerbread...

Simply put, Samsung is only winning the market share race in areas where cheap low-end phones are popular.

I agree, it's very weird that third world countries are using $30 that don't have access to the LTE network that doesn't exist, instead of buying $200+ phones that have features they literally can't use.

----------

Yes, they are. Overpriced, over reviewed, bloated, slow and pathetic quality junk. How people can even compare them to an iPhone, or any of the "premium" Android OEM's is lightyears beyond me.

Well it's hard to understand how they compare them when you don't understand why anyone would buy anything that doesn't have Apple's name on it.

 

[KdParker]

How can it be enough when someone rip you off to start their business to steal the same business from you? I don't think it's enough. Sorry.

The case has already been decided and Apple and Samsung are quibiling over chump change compared to how much these companies make everyday.

Samsung lost the case (win for Apple) and the cost for damages was reduced (win for Samsung). They should call it at 600 million and move on.