Apple in 'Advanced Talks' With Mobile Telecom Groups for Standardized 'e-SIM' Cards

[pokerplayer73]

I believe Apple's original vision was to build a phone without SIM card and use only data plan for Talk, text and internet. That didn't happen. I am hoping this would be the beginning to materialize that vision. That would be great. Data Plans that are geo-fenced. Once out of that geography, other options are available.
That means a 3G\LTE radio that accomodates all bands across the world. Apple is pretty close to it. iPhone6 has a single version available across the world as opposed to earlier iPhones(5S had 3 or 4 versions for CDMA/GSM/TDLTE).

 

[klamse25]

Why would you need to?

Ever traveled out of the country?

 

[AleXXXa]

People on pure CDMA carriers have had this convenience for ages. Forget your phone at home? Lost it? Take out your backup phone, log into the carrier webpage, enter the ESN, on the phone dial *228, done!

Yeah.
CDMA Master Race!

 

[d-b]

Exactly how would this be "easier" and more convenient? I have three devices with SIM-card at the moment. I also live half year abroad. I just move the SIM-card between the devices as I please, when I please. When I move abroad I put in a local SIM-card. How can things become easier than that? Ok, I have to find a small enough paperclip to push into the hole that opens the SIM-holder with the current solution. That can be super complicated…

I am completely independent (except the paperclip). Exactly what does a software SIM-card add to my situation?

 

[UnusedLoginID]

Won't happen in a way that's easy to use. I trust Apple to drive this standard the way it should be and I trust AT&T and the likes to make sure they don't lose a single customer which means locking that SIM one way or another.

 

[Gsoz]

Ever traveled out of the country?

Yes, why?

 

[Gsoz]

What if you own more than one device and like to use them intermittently?

Yeah, then what?

Why exactly is it so important to have this as a physical card?

 

[RuralJuror]

many carriers have resisted the concept over concerns it will be too easy for customers to switch

Or they could just, you know, give customers a reason to stay.

 

[unplugme71]

If I'm traveling somewhere where apple doesn't have deals with all the carriers, or possibly any how am I supposed to use the phone? With a physical sim I can easily change it to any carrier but with this I'm stuck with the apple approved options that may not be the best deal or may not exist to begin with.



Verizon has been doing essentially this for years with CDMA, it's only in the last few years that they have started using SIMs because they were needed for the LTE network.

Yes with their own network which I agree is slightly better than GSM. But it limited them in international use.

 

[unplugme71]

Since they know they have the best network and they know it, and they know consumers know it, they don't really have any reason to make things easier/cheaper for the consumer.

The best network is totally subjective. They can't prove that. I had both Verizon and att and will never go back to Verizon.

Plus att customer service has been top notch with me whereas Verizon sales and tech are cocky bastards that think they are the ****.

 

[Tech198]

Wouldn't u also be able to lock a consumer in several way, not just by SIM card number

Blocking involves invalidating the IMEI number if u lost your phone, so maybe this could be done here too

IMEI: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Carrier: AT&T

 

[0007776]

Yes with their own network which I agree is slightly better than GSM. But it limited them in international use.

I was definitely not saying that it was better than GSM, it's one of the reasons why I've mostly avoided Verizon. And there was nothing other than carrier's willingness to activate the phone keeping CDMA phones from switching networks, I've seen Sprint branded CDMA devices working on a local CDMA carrier overseas that apparently didn't have a problem activating them. Even if this becomes a standard that is used worldwide unlike CDMA we will see the same things happening with most carriers refusing to activate other carriers devices. This just makes it much easier for carriers to lock us in.

 

[bniu]

Since they know they have the best network and they know it, and they know consumers know it, they don't really have any reason to make things easier/cheaper for the consumer.

They have the best network for now. Who else had this same attitude? Blackberry, Detroit, Nokia....where are they now?

 

[00sjsl]

Why would you need to?

Because buying an iPhone SIM free and getting a SIM from a low cost network is the cheapest option. Why would I want to be restricted to a high cost networks? They don't have better service.

 

[00sjsl]

If they can let the user programme an e-sim with any sim-number, then potentially you could scan an existing sim number into the phone and use that.

It could be even more useful if you could have a 'sim wallet' so that when roaming you can choose which sim to use (e.g. if you go abroad)

I won't miss having to physically install a SIM, and certainly I never load it with phone numbers. I would however prefer

That would be neat if it was possible, but the card has more than just the IMSI (sim number) its also involved with encryption and authentication. I also wonder wether carriers would need to pay commision when accessed via an eSIM.

 

[Sinfonist]

You need to change SIM if your phone is out of juice, or you want to lend your account to someone else.
Also, if I change my number or I have a long-term contract, it's convenient to keep the SIM in another phone as a backup or pass the SIM on to someone else. If I have bought a special-purpose SIM (e.g. when travelling abroad to get a good deal on data), I want to be able to put this into my phone. I may also want to borrow a friend's SIM (e.g. when travelling abroad). All of these will probably be blocked by an e-SIM. These are common things to do in Europe.

 

[Daveoc64]

It'd probably end up working like with old CDMA phones where you had to switch the active IMEI of the device on the carrier's website.

Those same CDMA carriers (like Verizon and Sprint) that have a policy of not allowing you to bring a device that isn't theirs onto the network? The ability of those carriers that you're talking about is holding back competition in the USA.

If the carrier's website or phone line is involved, they'll have the ability to say that you can't switch for some reason. Whether that's because your new device isn't "compatible" with the carrier, you've switched too many times in the last 30 days, your plan doesn't allow it, you have to wait until you're x months into the contract etc.

With a SIM that simply isn't possible. My current carrier has no power over when I take my SIM out of my phone. Likewise, a new carrier has no real control over what type of phone I put my new SIM into.

I'm quite worried that some carriers would require you to always have the SIM associated with a device. So if you want to temporarily stop using your main contract while you go abroad, you'll need to swap the service to another phone temporarily.

This system would also be totally useless if you don't have a signal. It'd be a total non-starter if you were going to a different country and hoping to buy a local SIM in the airport.

You need to change SIM if your phone is out of juice, or you want to lend your account to someone else.
Also, if I change my number or I have a long-term contract, it's convenient to keep the SIM in another phone as a backup or pass the SIM on to someone else. If I have bought a special-purpose SIM (e.g. when travelling abroad to get a good deal on data), I want to be able to put this into my phone. I may also want to borrow a friend's SIM (e.g. when travelling abroad). All of these will probably be blocked by an e-SIM. These are common things to do in Europe.

Exactly. There are so many scenarios that the physical SIM enables in a competitive telecoms market, but Apple doesn't see that in the USA.

 

[Gsoz]

Because buying an iPhone SIM free and getting a SIM from a low cost network is the cheapest option. Why would I want to be restricted to a high cost networks? They don't have better service.

What are you talking about?

I was asking why a SIM is even needed.. this makes it easier to change network, so you're kinda just adding to my point.

 

[Daveoc64]

this makes it easier to change network

Explain how. You simply don't know how the system will work - nobody does, so you can't make that claim.

IMO the current system works well enough and empowers consumers.

 

[0007776]

What are you talking about?

I was asking why a SIM is even needed.. this makes it easier to change network, so you're kinda just adding to my point.

How does it make it easier? We have two different systems now, CDMA and GSM one uses SIM cards and one doesn't, which is easier to switch carriers in?

 

[Gsoz]

How does it make it easier? We have two different systems now, CDMA and GSM one uses SIM cards and one doesn't, which is easier to switch carriers in?

I have only experienced SIM (not US), but that is what they claim - why would you refute that and based on what?

 

[Gsoz]

Explain how. You simply don't know how the system will work - nobody does, so you can't make that claim.

IMO the current system works well enough and empowers consumers.

But you don't know enough either, to make the counterclaim?

 

[Daveoc64]

But you don't know enough either, to make the counterclaim?

I have listed possible reasons why such a system would be less convenient. I haven't really seen any reasons why it would be more convenient.

I've also pointed out that where carriers in the US could already operate a similar system (i.e. Verizon and Sprint), they choose not to for commercial reasons.

I agree that I can't prove it would be worse for consumers.

 

[0007776]

I have only experienced SIM (not US), but that is what they claim - why would you refute that and based on what?

Without SIMs it becomes very easy for the carrier to decide that they will only activate devices originally sold for their network. That's how it was until very recently on all US CDMA networks, and I believe it is still that way with Sprint, the only thing that has forced them to move away from that model a little bit is the addition of a SIM card for LTE.

 

[virtualSIM]

Agreed now we can go to the convenience and easy carrier switching that CDMA has had for years...

You can't blame the virtual SIM tech for that. It's the carriers choice. I'm from Europe so I'm not too familiar with CDMA carriers but I guess they aren't as spoilt for choice as GSM users?